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Eddie: Welcome to episode
10 of the WebJoy podcast.

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I'm your host Eddie in this podcast,
we interview guests about their origin

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story and what makes them excited and
joyful to be part of the tech community.

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I hope you enjoy today's episode
making these rounded half

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triangles with miriam isaac

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Welcome to another episode of WebJoy.

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I'm excited to have Miriam
Isaac with us today.

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Miriam, how about you introduce yourself,
you know who you are, what you do, where

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you work, just the general overview.

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Miriam: Yeah.

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Brilliant, great to be here on WebJoy.

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Really exciting.

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So I am Miriam Isaac, and I'm a
product designer living in beach,

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Amish Israel married with four kids.

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So, you know, lively household.

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I grew up in Manchester, England with
dreams of being a fashion designer.

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But with a change of lifestyle,
location, marriage, children.

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I now work as a product designer
for an incredible startup

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in Tel Aviv, called Santo.

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Yeah.

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So that's me in a nutshell

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Eddie: Awesome.

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How did you get into tech?

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What brought design up as
something that you were interested

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in and shift your focus there?

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Miriam: Oh gosh, it's quite the story.

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I was always creative from a young
age drawing, designing, creating.

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I knew I wanted to work in that field.

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However, in those days we were always
taught that it was too risky to go

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into design, you know, you're gonna
be a starving artist and on top of

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that me and my peers, they didn't know
about, you know, NFTs of those days.

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Nowadays, yeah, go on.

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Draw those monkeys.

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Me and my peers were always
encouraged to go for  the practical

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careers or for careers that would
suit being a future mother or wife.

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But for some reason I got into my head
that I wanted to be a fashion designer.

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And for some reason, my parents
allowed me to pursue this.

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Maybe it's because I was a girl
and they didn't necessarily think I

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needed to have that responsibility.

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Because the boys were more
expected in our community to

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have that kind of responsibility.

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Which of course seems a bit old-fashioned
nowadays, but in the '90s in a religious

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community, that was kind of the standard.

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However, when I came to Israel,
something inside me clicked and I

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decided to stay and I met my husband.

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We got married, but I found myself
with no degree or money making skills.

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I did some research and found that
religious girls in Israel generally

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went for graphic design courses.

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So I took a course, after
coming out of that course there

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weren't like any opportunities.

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So I took another course in web design
and after I completed that course,

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I somehow started designing and
building websites for small businesses.

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And this was back in 2010, and
businesses were being told that you

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need to be searchable online . You need
to like have a business card online.

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And somehow in the community, I became
the person to go to for small websites.

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I also think because of my
non-art school background.

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I was a very business and user
focused designer from day one.

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I was always curious about if the websites
I designed were useful, valuable, usable,

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and I was a very early adopter of any
tool that would gimme any sort of web

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analytics on the websites I was building.

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usually in those days when you design,
you just hand off the Photoshop files.

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All the little slices . And all done.

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and I would follow up with clients
just out of pure curiosity,

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just to know how did it do?

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I was always curious about that.

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I think because of this trait I was
recruited by a local like eCommerce

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business who needed a web designer
that specialized in conversion.

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While I was there.

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I eventually became a UX manager
leading a team of designers,

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development, and writers.

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This was because I was so interested
in how we could improve the website

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and business through this new
fangled thing called user experience.

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So yeah.

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Eddie: It's funny cuz you talk about
slices in Photoshop and I definitely

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was doing web development at that time.

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I mean, at times it's so funny how much
of a website might end up being images?

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Rather than trying to recreate
everything in CSS like we do now

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where everything has to be responsive.

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We would literally just grab sections
of these images that designers like

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you would create in Photoshop and just
put images all around our website which

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we could match just a very specific
kind of window size, cuz you didn't

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have mobile phones and iPads and all
these different, crazy screen sizes.

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. 
Miriam: Oh, yeah, for sure.

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I remember to make rounded corners, you
had to cut these little tiny squares,

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I can remember like making these
rounded half triangles, but then it

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had too match the background as well.

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Cause you, you could have
transparent background.

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To do opacity, you had to
actually create a slice that was

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opaque  and that's how you did it.

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Yeah, it was a funny time, but
also a very creative time as well,

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because there was no responsive.

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So, and then I remember
we went responsive.

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We kind of had to take a step back
creatively and we went very flat.

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You know, cause we didn't
know how to do shadows in CSS.

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Eddie: Yeah, that was definitely like
you said, an interesting transition

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because things were very pixel
perfect and very elaborate on the web.

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Very skeumorphic And things like that.

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Miriam: Yeah.

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Eddie: we had to do that step back
because no web designer knew how to

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recreate that stuff you responsiveness.

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Miriam: Yeah.

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It's funny because people do attribute
the flat design trend to apple,

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but I actually think it was the web
that started that because we were

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making these very elaborate websites.

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I remember we were obsessed with
wood and wood paneling and then you

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couldn't do that in CSS, you know?

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So I feel like it came from web
first and then like Apple took it on.

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Interestingly enough.

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Eddie: I

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remember lots of websites that did
skeumorphic things, or even if you

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were doing an under construction
webpage, you would try to do some

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kind of construction sign like that

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Miriam: Yeah, and also our
headers were so elaborate.

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We had these swirls oh my God.

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We were obsessed with
swirls and like leaves.

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And I even made one website where I
had done the typography in a sewing

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pattern and under it these materials.

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You cannot do this now.

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it was definitely a joyous time.

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Eddie: Well, there's the challenge.

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Now I wanna see someone try to recreate
that in today's responsive world.

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Let's there's the challenge out.

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Someone figure out

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how to

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Miriam: see.

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That totally challenge is out there.

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Eddie: Well, obviously design has
gone through a lot of transition while

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you've been working in this field.

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What do you think keeps you excited and
interested in working as a designer?

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Miriam: I'm definitely a lifelong learner.

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I do very much enjoy learning new things.

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I do think it suits my character
trait to be in an industry

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that's constantly changing.

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I also very much enjoy teaching.

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I teach UX design to religious
women across the world.

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They could be in America
or in England or in Israel.

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And I really enjoy that.

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Cause I think teaching
is just a great way to.

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Give back and keep that
joy of designing going.

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And it brings me so much joy to see
how they grow throughout the year

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and the work they produce at the end.

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I get so much what we call
in Judaism, Nachas, which is

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another word for joy from them.

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Eddie: That is so great.

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I love the focus on finding
different underserved.

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audiences where rather than just having,
oh, here's the one or two places that

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people go to learn and everyone has
to go there instead  nicheing down

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and having different communities that
get to learn that have similar life

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experiences or ways of understanding.

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I think that helps transition people
in an environment where the learning

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can be more focused to where they're
coming from and what they understand.

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So I love that approach.

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That's really cool.

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Miriam: Oh, thank you.

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I also consider myself
self-taught in terms of UX.

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I'm so grateful for the people before
me, who just put out content online

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and did all that kind of stuff.

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Otherwise, I couldn't be where I
am today, cuz I learned in a very

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non-traditional manner as well.

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So definitely like really into that.

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Awesome.

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Eddie: Is that something where you
all have a website or something

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that people can get involved?

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How does that work?

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Miriam: oh, so t's best if someone's
interested just to contact me directly.

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And we'll hook them up.

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Yeah, and you can find
me on all the platforms.

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Eddie: So if anyone is interested in
reaching out, feel free to check out the

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show notes and the links are in there.

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We like to talk about in this podcast
is something that brings you joy.

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Have you used something lately that brings
you a lot of joy and if so, what is that?

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Miriam: So I know it sounds
really funny, but I really enjoy

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this app called Cleanshot X.

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and it's all about just making
screenshots that are  better screenshots.

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I think it's really funny
how we say we love things.

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Like we love both inanimate objects
and we love people, but I think the

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reasons why we love them are different.

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so I love Cleanshot.

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Why do I love Cleanshot?

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Cause it makes my day so much
easier .As a designer, I'm taking

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screenshots all day, every day.

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And the fact that it just saves them
on the side, on my screen, like in

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the left hand corner, and then I could
just grab them and I can just put

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little notes on or make a little video.

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It just saves me so much time
and it's saving me pain, you know

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it is solving a problem for me
and kind of giving me pleasure.

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Whereas we love people.

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We love people in terms of
because we give to those people.

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Right.

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I love my children because I give to them.

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Of course, as they say, there's
nothing greater than a mother's love.

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And why does the mother
love their children so much?

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Cuz from day one they're just
giving, giving, giving, you know?

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So I think it's so interesting.

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How from like a human,
psychologists perspective when

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we say we love things, you know?

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Eddie: Yeah.

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It's definitely interesting.

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I think that we kind of reuse that
language in these different areas and

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that it's almost opposite because when we
love people to your point, we really love

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the people that we're giving to, whereas
in the tools and the objects and the

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places that we love are really the things
that give us enjoyment and satisfaction.

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So it's almost kind of flipped.

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Miriam: Yeah, that is really interesting.

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Eddie: you know, With Cleanshot
X, what is it in particular?

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I heard you mentioned it'll
hold them on this side.

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You can add notes.

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So is it the workflow?

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Is there a specific tooling about the
quality or any specific screenshot

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features or is it really just the fact
that it smooths out your workflow where

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you're not having to mentally keep
track of where you saved the files?

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Miriam: Yeah.

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I think it's really the workflow
because especially nowadays we

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can have all these windows open.

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Like we have Figma open and have
a browser open, and slack or

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WhatsApp open and it's so easy.

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Like I can take a screenshot in the
platform, it stays on my desktop.

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I don't have to then open it up in Figma
and then use whatever tools are there,

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which aren't ideal quick markup tools.

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it keeps it on the side.

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You press into it, it opens up and it's
got these tools like markers or ability

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to  white out or to zoom into areas.

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The tools are made specifically for
screenshots which it's that whole

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theory of a product just not having
too many features, you know, when a

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product has too many features or too
many things it could be overwhelming.

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We all know Hicks law like too
many options, too many problems

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So whereas before I would have to
bring into screenshot into Figma or

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Photoshop and you're using tools that
were designed for crafting screens, for

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crafting websites, not for commenting on
a screenshot saying move this here, move

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that there, or that's wrong with this one.

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that kind of stuff it out.

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Eddie: I love a tool that someone
says, you know what, I'm gonna

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make something that does one thing.

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And it does that one thing really well.

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And that is what their focus is.

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And they know when to say no
to features because it detracts

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from the primary purpose and
allows it to really stay focused.

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That's awesome.

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Miriam: Yeah.

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A hundred percent.

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And I'm sure they probably sit there
like, well, we could add this and

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we could add that, you know, and I'm
sure it's really hard not to do that.

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Eddie: It's been a great conversation.

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I really appreciate you
coming and joining the show.

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It's been really fun.

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Miriam: Yeah.

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It's been so fun.

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I really thank you so much for having me.

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I really enjoyed being here and
I can't wait to listen to the

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episode and all the other episodes
as well that are coming out.

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Yay.

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Okay, bye.

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Eddie: Thank you for joining us for
episode 10, making these rounded

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half triangles with Miriam Isaac,
you can find out more about Miriam

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on her Twitter at M Isaac 85.

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You can find the links to everything
we talked about in this episode,

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as well as a link to Miriam's
Twitter in the show notes.

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If you enjoyed this episode,
help others discover it as well

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00:13:43,414 --> 00:13:46,744
by rating and reviewing it in
your favorite podcast directory.

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And don't forget to follow
us on Twitter at web joy FM.

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Thank you for listening
and have a great day

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Next episode on web joy.

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Kathryn: it was so fun.

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It was one of the most fun
conferences that I've done.

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And it was great to get to  run away to
Miami while it was still like a little

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bit cold back home and be like, all right.

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This is work.

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I get to hang out here,  under the
Palm trees and talking about react.

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All right, I can get used to this.

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I think there's honestly.

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So much good to be said for online
conferences, especially in terms of

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accessibility and allowing people to
attend, who might not have previously

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been able to attend a conference in person
cause in person has a lot of barriers.

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I'm glad that we've seen a rise in
online conferences and at the same time,

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it's very hard to replicate the energy
of a room full of people who are all

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really excited about the same thing.

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I enjoy doing both, but for me, I think
especially after the extended isolation

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of COVID times, it's been especially
gratifying to be back in a room

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Eddie: So.

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Put yourself out there.

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If you're interested in speaking
at conferences and stuff.

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I got rejected my first time.

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It's okay.

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I'm gonna take that and throw
it to another conference.

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And Katherine gets rejected plenty 60%.

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So

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Kathryn: Yeah, I guess it's probably
higher  so it probably should

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have been like 65 or 70, but.

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Eddie: the longer the podcast
goes on the higher than number

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Kathryn: It's just gonna keep getting the,
the rejections are flowing in as we speak

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Eddie: "The Rejections are Flowing
In" with Kathryn Grayson-Nanz