1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:07,040 Kevin Mako: Hello, product innovators. Today we learned the eight key pillars of hardware marketing strategy from a 20-year manufacturing marketing pioneer. 2 00:00:07,780 --> 00:00:16,900 Kevin Mako: This is the Product Startup Podcast, a show to learn from top leaders in hardware product development, prototyping, manufacturing, product selling, and everything in between. 3 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:21,720 Kevin Mako: Hosted by Kevin Mako, the leading expert on product development for hardware startups. 4 00:00:22,500 --> 00:00:26,120 Kevin Mako: Welcome back, everyone. Today I'm very excited to introduce Chris Peer to the show. 5 00:00:26,500 --> 00:00:29,940 Kevin Mako: Chris is the author of The Great 8 Pillars of ROI-Driven Marketing. 6 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:35,940 Kevin Mako: He is also the founder of SyncShow, a 20-year-old marketing company specifically for manufacturers and supply chain. 7 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:50,060 Kevin Mako: Today, Chris is going to share some valuable knowledge for inventors, startups, and small manufacturers on the eight required pillars for building a great marketing strategy for your product, the importance of those pillars and best practices on how to build a successful marketing machine for your new hardware brand. 8 00:00:50,300 --> 00:00:51,440 Kevin Mako: Now, on the episode. 9 00:00:51,900 --> 00:00:59,980 Kevin Mako: This show is produced by Mako Design, the original firm providing end-to-end consumer product development services, tailored specifically to hardware startups, 10 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,740 Kevin Mako: small manufacturers, and inventors. 11 00:01:02,860 --> 00:01:07,140 Kevin Mako: Take your product from idea to store shelves at MakoDesign.com. 12 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:08,760 Kevin Mako: Now on to the episode. 13 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:10,920 Kevin Mako: Hey, Chris, welcome to the show. 14 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:11,640 Chris Peer: Thanks, Kevin. 15 00:01:11,700 --> 00:01:12,200 Chris Peer: Nice to be here. 16 00:01:12,400 --> 00:01:20,880 Kevin Mako: We're excited to have you on today to talk about the key pillars to success for marketing a new or scaling hardware invention. 17 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:27,200 Kevin Mako: Now, whether a new inventor just starting out on your journey or whether you're an established hardware product brand, 18 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:29,980 Kevin Mako: these things are critical to have on your research. 19 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:34,120 Kevin Mako: radar to make sure that you are planning to market so that you can make sales. 20 00:01:34,420 --> 00:01:38,480 Kevin Mako: At the end of the day, first thing, most important in hardware is you've got to have a great product, 21 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,620 Kevin Mako: of course. But when you have that great product, now how do you get it in front of eyeballs 22 00:01:42,620 --> 00:01:46,340 Kevin Mako: and then convert those eyeballs to sales? And that's what we're going to be talking about today. 23 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:50,620 Kevin Mako: Chris, before we get into all that, just give us a bit of a background of how you became 24 00:01:50,620 --> 00:01:54,800 Chris Peer: the success story that you are today. Yeah. Well, thanks, Kevin. You know, I started the company 25 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:59,640 Chris Peer: 20 years ago at my dining room table, quit my job at Ernst and Young. 26 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:04,480 Chris Peer: decided I wanted to get into marketing, but I wanted marketing to be different. I wanted to provide 27 00:02:04,480 --> 00:02:11,340 Chris Peer: value for companies, not just the creative agencies that used to be around 20 years ago. Over 28 00:02:11,340 --> 00:02:16,100 Chris Peer: the time, you know, we were developing marketing strategies and programs for companies. And then right 29 00:02:16,100 --> 00:02:24,420 Chris Peer: around 2010, we had a very transitional moment in our business life. We had a client. It was actually 30 00:02:24,420 --> 00:02:29,980 Chris Peer: a hardware product development company, manufacturer at Illinois. They wanted to get a 31 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:34,440 Chris Peer: into the automotive space. And I've outlined this all in my book, but I'll tell you the quick 32 00:02:34,440 --> 00:02:40,800 Chris Peer: story. It was my business partner's cousin who owned the firm, and they were the sixth fastest growing 33 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:45,720 Chris Peer: company in Illinois. And they just wanted to get into the automotive space. And through our work, 34 00:02:45,840 --> 00:02:51,620 Chris Peer: we helped create awareness for them and drive awareness to the top three automotive companies. 35 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:58,360 Chris Peer: Six months later, they landed a huge multimillion, I think it was a $30 million deal. Six months later, 36 00:02:58,360 --> 00:03:03,180 Chris Peer: they fired us because of lack of return on investment. And it was at that point, we realized 37 00:03:03,180 --> 00:03:11,040 Chris Peer: if we can't keep a family member as a client because of return on investment or ROI, we had problems. 38 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:17,900 Chris Peer: So we reinvented ourselves and it's been going great ever since. Yeah, that whole concept of return on 39 00:03:17,900 --> 00:03:23,480 Kevin Mako: investment sometimes is foreign to the ad world. Of course, when you think about, especially marketing, 40 00:03:24,100 --> 00:03:28,340 Kevin Mako: a lot of the big marketing initiatives and ads that you see and whatever else, 41 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:34,500 Kevin Mako: So much of that is driven to build brand recognition or many other initiatives for Fortune 500 companies. 42 00:03:34,620 --> 00:03:41,200 Kevin Mako: But the reality, as a startup, a scale up, especially with a hardware product, the goal is to make sales. 43 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:48,160 Kevin Mako: And that's why it's so important to have marketing initiatives that are built to drive sales as opposed to 44 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:53,180 Kevin Mako: potentially some other goals that might be good for Fortune 500, but really aren't that valuable 45 00:03:53,180 --> 00:03:58,340 Kevin Mako: or not necessarily your best return on budget that you actually spend. 46 00:03:58,360 --> 00:04:02,000 Kevin Mako: end, as opposed to the return on investment that you are actually getting from marketing 47 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:06,580 Kevin Mako: initiatives that truly drive sales at the end of the day. So let's talk about these eight pillars 48 00:04:06,580 --> 00:04:11,660 Kevin Mako: because you're pretty specific. You literally wrote the book on these eight pillars of success 49 00:04:11,660 --> 00:04:18,040 Kevin Mako: for ensuring return on investment for marketing. What are those eight pillars? You can talk about some of them 50 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:23,460 Kevin Mako: at length and some of them, I know you might want to glaze over, but let's focus on what all eight of them are 51 00:04:23,460 --> 00:04:28,300 Kevin Mako: And then we could maybe hone down on some of the key ones, especially as a new or early 52 00:04:28,300 --> 00:04:33,840 Kevin Mako: hardware startup that's just getting off the ground with their innovation or trying to scale it to 53 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:36,300 Kevin Mako: the next level soon thereafter launch. 54 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:42,420 Chris Peer: So if you're a hardware startup, you may be financially backed or you may be shoestring in this. 55 00:04:42,420 --> 00:04:48,440 Chris Peer: And regardless of what place you are, getting your marketing and doing it the right way up front 56 00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:53,440 Chris Peer: is going to save you tons of time and money. Because if you don't focus on these eight key things, 57 00:04:53,460 --> 00:04:58,360 Chris Peer: things, our data shows that your chances of getting a return on investment for marketing 58 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:03,840 Chris Peer: are pretty difficult. And just for clarification, when I say return on investment from marketing, 59 00:05:03,840 --> 00:05:09,680 Chris Peer: what I mean is you should drive more sales from marketing-driven activities than you pay for 60 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:15,720 Chris Peer: your marketing. And at SyncShow, that's my company, it's my agency. Our goal is to get a 10x 61 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:23,340 Chris Peer: ROI. Now, some clients get a 2x, some get a 3x. We've even had one client get a 22x ROI, but the goal is you should 62 00:05:23,340 --> 00:05:28,080 Chris Peer: be able to track it and measure it. So over the years, we found that if our companies and 63 00:05:28,080 --> 00:05:31,580 Chris Peer: clients didn't have these things in place, it was very difficult. If you're okay with it, 64 00:05:31,620 --> 00:05:35,260 Chris Peer: I'll jump in and just kind of read them off and then we can dive into them. Yeah, that sounds great. 65 00:05:35,340 --> 00:05:38,840 Kevin Mako: I mean, I love the fact that you mentioned two things. Obviously, you're trying to drive more sales 66 00:05:38,840 --> 00:05:43,000 Kevin Mako: than you spend on marketing. That should be obvious, but isn't always the case. That is the key, 67 00:05:43,100 --> 00:05:48,020 Kevin Mako: especially as a startup. Return on investment. And second, well, how do you actually know that that's 68 00:05:48,020 --> 00:05:52,840 Kevin Mako: achieving success? And that's how you mentioned measure and track. So if you're not tracking and 69 00:05:52,840 --> 00:05:57,180 Kevin Mako: measuring the actual results from your initiatives, how do you know what your return on investment 70 00:05:57,180 --> 00:06:02,260 Kevin Mako: is? Two very powerful things when you're talking about that sales element of marketing. So yeah, 71 00:06:02,280 --> 00:06:07,220 Chris Peer: let's dive into it. What are those A pillars? All right. Great. So we'll go into them. They are listed 72 00:06:07,220 --> 00:06:14,660 Chris Peer: in order of importance. And you may tweak these for your organization, but number one pillar is goals, 73 00:06:15,020 --> 00:06:19,960 Chris Peer: KPIs, and industry benchmarks. And we can dive into this one a little bit more later. But basically what 74 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:26,100 Chris Peer: what you need to do is identify an ROI-driven goal for your marketing. And we'll talk 75 00:06:26,100 --> 00:06:31,840 Chris Peer: about that more in a moment. Number two is your value proposition, messaging, and branding. To me, 76 00:06:31,840 --> 00:06:39,480 Chris Peer: for most hardware product manufacturing companies, your value proposition is so critical to producing 77 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:45,200 Chris Peer: sales and future growth. Most companies skip that. Number three is your marketing strategy. 78 00:06:45,860 --> 00:06:49,600 Chris Peer: We've had hundreds of clients over the years. Not one of them. 79 00:06:49,960 --> 00:06:55,560 Chris Peer: has given us an existing marketing strategy and said, hey, can you guys execute on it? 80 00:06:55,560 --> 00:07:02,310 Chris Peer: Most agencies and most in-house marketers skip that step. Marketing strategy is critical. 81 00:07:02,310 --> 00:07:07,510 Chris Peer: Number four is going to be your marketing team. Do you have the right resources 82 00:07:07,510 --> 00:07:13,510 Chris Peer: in place to pull off your marketing strategy? And that could be an agency or outsourced or it could 83 00:07:13,510 --> 00:07:19,830 Chris Peer: be internal. Number five is your website. Number six are your analytics and reporting. 84 00:07:19,990 --> 00:07:26,710 Chris Peer: Number seven is your technology stack. So that would be like marketing automation, your CRM 85 00:07:26,710 --> 00:07:31,800 Chris Peer: platform. And then number eight are templates and guides. These are things that make you more efficient 86 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:37,380 Chris Peer: and productive as you're implementing your strategy. Oh, that's amazing. That's a very powerful list 87 00:07:37,380 --> 00:07:42,480 Kevin Mako: of eight key things required for marketing. I want to spend some time because you mentioned 88 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:48,120 Kevin Mako: they're in the order of importance. So I want to go back to, especially at the top three and really 89 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:52,960 Kevin Mako: drive deep onto those. Because I know a lot of those, of course, are kind of the base of the 90 00:07:52,960 --> 00:07:57,960 Kevin Mako: pyramid to some of the subsequent ones as well. So starting with the very first one, talk a bit more 91 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:03,299 Kevin Mako: about what goals and KPIs are and how that actually relates to return on investment. 92 00:08:03,299 --> 00:08:04,380 Chris Peer: Yeah, absolutely. 93 00:08:04,380 --> 00:08:11,480 Chris Peer: So as you'll notice about all eight of them, not a single one is a marketing tactic. What we're really getting 94 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:17,660 Chris Peer: to the root of here. And as I recommend for your listeners and viewers that are developing hardware products, 95 00:08:17,660 --> 00:08:22,900 Chris Peer: think about your marketing operational infrastructure first. Are you set up for future success? 96 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:28,060 Chris Peer: Because if you are and you can implement these eight pillars, that snowball effect starts to happen much 97 00:08:28,060 --> 00:08:33,740 Chris Peer: faster. So the future vision for your growth will happen much easier if you just build your 98 00:08:33,740 --> 00:08:39,620 Chris Peer: foundation properly. So as we talk about goals, KPIs, and industry benchmarks, number one is to create 99 00:08:39,620 --> 00:08:46,420 Chris Peer: that 10x ROI goal. And this is really easy. Don't overcomplicate this. Add up everything you spend on 100 00:08:46,420 --> 00:08:52,080 Chris Peer: marketing. Your employees, your tech stack, your ad spend, everything. The cost of your 101 00:08:52,080 --> 00:08:58,140 Chris Peer: website, add it all up, multiply by 10. There's your 10x goal. So if that equals 500 grand, 102 00:08:58,440 --> 00:09:02,680 Chris Peer: your goal is, if it's a million, if it's a million, or if it's 100,000, whatever your number is, 103 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:08,000 Chris Peer: just multiply it by 10. Now you at least have a vision for where you need to go, which can set up 104 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:13,200 Kevin Mako: everything else. Yeah. I mean, that's great to have that goal and that objective clear and up front, 105 00:09:13,200 --> 00:09:17,720 Kevin Mako: because if you can hit those targets and work towards those targets over time, that's what 106 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:21,880 Kevin Mako: creates such a scalable hardware startup. At the end of the day, you're trying to sell product 107 00:09:21,880 --> 00:09:27,540 Kevin Mako: to the world. You've got a huge marketplace, a global marketplace in which to sell your products. 108 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:32,880 Kevin Mako: So if you can start building the infrastructure, the machine, let's call it, in order to market 109 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:37,480 Kevin Mako: and then convert those into sales, that is truly how these hardware startups that you hear about 110 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:41,600 Kevin Mako: achieve tremendous growth and scale. And the interesting thing that I find that you've mentioned here 111 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:46,480 Kevin Mako: is really looking at as a foundational platform. Whereas when most people typically start 112 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:50,900 Kevin Mako: businesses, especially in the hardware space, they start trying to do little bits and pieces 113 00:09:50,900 --> 00:09:55,920 Kevin Mako: for sales here and there, not really thinking about an overall marketing strategy that then 114 00:09:55,920 --> 00:10:00,120 Kevin Mako: funnels into sales and so on. So if you look at it as building a strong foundation first, 115 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:05,140 Kevin Mako: and you mentioned it really in the cost savings, it's going to make it not only cheaper and quicker 116 00:10:05,140 --> 00:10:09,260 Kevin Mako: to develop those marketing strategies and initiatives, but you're going to have a much better 117 00:10:09,260 --> 00:10:14,060 Kevin Mako: conversion ratio, which means it's going to be significantly more successful over time and allows 118 00:10:14,060 --> 00:10:19,940 Kevin Mako: you get a true metric for the actual strategies that you deploy and how you tweak and refine them over 119 00:10:19,940 --> 00:10:24,260 Kevin Mako: time, how you experiment, all those sorts of things. But it comes down to a platform. I think that's 120 00:10:24,260 --> 00:10:28,700 Kevin Mako: a huge message here in setting up marketing and sales initiatives, especially for hardware 121 00:10:28,700 --> 00:10:33,740 Kevin Mako: startups. Don't wait until too far down the pipeline in order to get this going. Build these 122 00:10:33,740 --> 00:10:39,100 Kevin Mako: infrastructures into your business early so that you can layer on top of them over time. 123 00:10:39,260 --> 00:10:45,920 Chris Peer: you nailed it. What we see more often than not is marketing agencies and even in-house 124 00:10:45,920 --> 00:10:51,200 Chris Peer: marketers. Marketers, marketers in general, are great people. They're very dedicated and passionate about 125 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:56,040 Chris Peer: what they do. So they want to drive value immediately. So what they do is they jump right into a tactical 126 00:10:56,040 --> 00:11:02,560 Chris Peer: effort. And we call that whack-a-mole-style marketing. So if you don't have your goal set, and then we're going 127 00:11:02,560 --> 00:11:06,940 Chris Peer: to talk about the marketing strategy and your value prop in a minute, without those things in place, 128 00:11:06,940 --> 00:11:11,440 Chris Peer: and without these pillars in place, you don't have any direction, so you end up just wasting 129 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:17,300 Kevin Mako: a lot of time and money. I want to dive a little bit deeper into number two and three. There's somewhat 130 00:11:17,300 --> 00:11:22,680 Kevin Mako: interrelated as well. We're talking about value proposition and marketing strategy. Talk a bit more 131 00:11:22,680 --> 00:11:29,180 Kevin Mako: in depth about those and why they're very critical in supporting number one, which is ensuring you get that 132 00:11:29,180 --> 00:11:36,220 Chris Peer: 10x return on investment. So I use an analogy often. I'm a big fisherman. I love bass fishing. I've got a bass 133 00:11:36,220 --> 00:11:42,280 Chris Peer: but I spent all my free time fishing. And going fishing is just like going hunting for new 134 00:11:42,280 --> 00:11:48,560 Chris Peer: business. You need to have the right equipment, the right boat. You need to be in the right kind of body of 135 00:11:48,560 --> 00:11:53,880 Chris Peer: water. You need the right lures and attraction capabilities. And so when you're going after new clients 136 00:11:53,880 --> 00:11:59,900 Chris Peer: and you're bringing your product to market, especially with new hardware products, you may not always 137 00:11:59,900 --> 00:12:05,440 Chris Peer: know 100% who your ideal customer is going to be, but you have to make some assumptions. So 138 00:12:05,440 --> 00:12:10,400 Chris Peer: So when we talk about value proposition, you have to first nail down that ideal customer 139 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:15,500 Chris Peer: profile and you have to understand who your buyer is and what pain points you're solving for them. 140 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:20,420 Chris Peer: And this is whether you're a business to consumer seller or a business to business seller. And then 141 00:12:20,420 --> 00:12:25,040 Chris Peer: you need to understand your buyer personas. So who are these human beings in those organizations 142 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:30,260 Chris Peer: that are making those buying decisions? Once you have those things, you can start to craft a value 143 00:12:30,260 --> 00:12:35,200 Chris Peer: proposition. And in the book, when we talk about value proposition, we have a whole chapter on how to 144 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:41,760 Chris Peer: build a well articulated and differentiated value proposition. The key is to help your buyers 145 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:47,340 Chris Peer: understand how you're different and why they should choose your product over your competitors. 146 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:53,060 Chris Peer: Because if you don't clearly articulate that, and if it's not differentiated in the market, 147 00:12:53,420 --> 00:12:58,940 Chris Peer: guess what? Now you're going to have to compete on price. Selling is going to be harder. And there's a 148 00:12:58,940 --> 00:13:03,580 Chris Peer: chance your competitors are going to pick up market share over you. So value proposition, 149 00:13:03,580 --> 00:13:08,700 Chris Peer: and then the messaging and branding to coordinate with it is pillar number two for a reason. It's 150 00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:13,920 Kevin Mako: critical. And then how does that apply into the overall marketing strategy? Once you've really dialed in 151 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:19,300 Kevin Mako: that value proposition, what are some of your tips and tactics for building out a great marketing 152 00:13:19,300 --> 00:13:25,380 Chris Peer: strategy to get to that 10x level? Yeah. So as I mentioned earlier, of the hundreds of companies we worked 153 00:13:25,380 --> 00:13:32,100 Chris Peer: with not a single one handed us the existing marketing strategy. So just building out a strategy is so 154 00:13:32,100 --> 00:13:36,740 Chris Peer: important. And if you want a strategy template, we have them available on our website 155 00:13:36,740 --> 00:13:41,060 Chris Peer: for download. I can give you that link to include in the podcast description after, Kevin. 156 00:13:41,060 --> 00:13:46,660 Chris Peer: But building out a marketing strategy is really not rocket science, but there are some critical 157 00:13:46,660 --> 00:13:52,920 Chris Peer: components to it. So one is have that ideal customer profile detailed and those buyer personas 158 00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:58,080 Chris Peer: detailed. Then you have to make some educated decisions on where is your target market? You know, 159 00:13:58,100 --> 00:14:02,020 Chris Peer: let's talk geographically. Let's talk the size of the company that you're selling into. 160 00:14:02,100 --> 00:14:07,860 Chris Peer: Once you have some of these basics in place, you can then start to identify the channels 161 00:14:07,860 --> 00:14:14,680 Chris Peer: or the places that these buyers are going to be looking for your solution. So if you're brand new to the 162 00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:20,240 Chris Peer: market, which new products typically are, they might not know you exist. So you have to do some 163 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:25,700 Chris Peer: outbound marketing to present your product to them so that they know that there's a solution to these 164 00:14:25,700 --> 00:14:29,660 Chris Peer: problems that they have. But they also may be searching on how to solve a problem. So you have to 165 00:14:29,660 --> 00:14:35,100 Chris Peer: some inbound methodologies as well. So I would recommend download our template and it walks you through 166 00:14:35,100 --> 00:14:40,280 Chris Peer: every component of that, including choosing the right social media channels to how to develop 167 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:45,460 Chris Peer: your messaging for each channel. And then the messaging and the funnels for each of your buyer 168 00:14:45,460 --> 00:14:50,680 Kevin Mako: personas. I know you guys are very tech enabled, which is where some of these things come in further down 169 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:55,280 Kevin Mako: and some of the other points like analytics, templates, the technology stack, that sort of stuff. 170 00:14:55,440 --> 00:14:59,260 Kevin Mako: You're a big advocate of tracking, which really requires that you have this foundational 171 00:14:59,260 --> 00:15:02,720 Kevin Mako: technical infrastructure and also, especially for consumer products, it's something that's 172 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:07,440 Kevin Mako: very available. It's fairly easy and there's a lot of different software pieces out there that help 173 00:15:07,440 --> 00:15:12,460 Kevin Mako: you track and understand exactly what your return on investment is for all of your marketing and sales 174 00:15:12,460 --> 00:15:18,740 Kevin Mako: initiatives because you have a direct purchase event, basically, that you can track back to a 175 00:15:18,740 --> 00:15:23,700 Kevin Mako: lead source. So talk a bit about some of the technologies that you like, just at a high level and 176 00:15:23,700 --> 00:15:28,260 Kevin Mako: what consumer product company should be thinking about when they're at least looking into setting up 177 00:15:28,260 --> 00:15:33,420 Kevin Mako: their tech stack for making sure that they can track all these sales opportunities that they're 178 00:15:33,420 --> 00:15:37,880 Chris Peer: working on. Yeah, so you nailed it. Pillar number seven chapter in the book, it's all about 179 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:42,500 Chris Peer: technology stack. So some of the key technologies we're looking for, there's some primaries and 180 00:15:42,500 --> 00:15:47,940 Chris Peer: then there's some tertiary technologies. The primaries are going to be your marketing automation 181 00:15:47,940 --> 00:15:54,200 Chris Peer: platform. So Pardot, Marketo, Act-On. We like HubSpot. We're a HubSpot, Platinum partner. 182 00:15:54,940 --> 00:15:58,240 Chris Peer: So I highly recommend HubSpot. We just found it to be the best for our. 183 00:15:58,260 --> 00:16:02,920 Chris Peer: our clients, very easy to use and implement. Second would be your CRM system. So again, 184 00:16:03,500 --> 00:16:08,220 Chris Peer: you already mentioned it, Kevin, but the goal is to be able to track first point of contact with 185 00:16:08,220 --> 00:16:15,560 Chris Peer: your brand all the way through closed new business or closed sale. And so having one platform that can 186 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:22,340 Chris Peer: do all of that is a huge advantage over integrating or having an API connection between multiple 187 00:16:22,340 --> 00:16:28,060 Chris Peer: systems. HubSpot has a CRM system as well. That's one of the reasons we really also like 188 00:16:28,060 --> 00:16:33,340 Chris Peer: HubSpot is because your website, your marketing, and your sales can all be connected. 189 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:38,780 Chris Peer: They even have a customer service capability, too. Then some of the tertiary tools, 190 00:16:39,020 --> 00:16:44,360 Chris Peer: I don't get into a lot of detail on those because those change rapidly based on the marketing tactic. 191 00:16:45,540 --> 00:16:51,680 Chris Peer: So, you know, having a strong search engine optimization tool or technology you're using, 192 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,680 Chris Peer: having strong social media tools, those are the other technologies we talk about. 193 00:16:56,180 --> 00:16:58,200 Kevin Mako: Yeah, that's great. I appreciate the high level overview. 194 00:16:58,220 --> 00:17:02,760 Kevin Mako: you. And of course, if you want to learn more, you can go read the book. So, Chris, 195 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:08,120 Kevin Mako: just talk to us, but what is the title of the book? And where can our listeners go to buy a copy? 196 00:17:08,120 --> 00:17:13,900 Chris Peer: Yeah, so the title of the book is the grade eight pillars of ROI-driven marketing. It's 197 00:17:13,900 --> 00:17:20,100 Chris Peer: specifically built for manufacturing companies. If you're outside of manufacturing and maybe you're 198 00:17:20,100 --> 00:17:26,980 Chris Peer: developing a product, but you're not in that niche, the methodology works for all B-to-B companies. It's 199 00:17:26,980 --> 00:17:31,040 Chris Peer: available on Amazon. So you can buy it. I can buy the paperback. I think it's like nine bucks or 200 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:35,780 Chris Peer: something like that. I'll put that link in the comments as well. And you can get it there. 201 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:40,280 Kevin Mako: Thanks, Chris. As always, I'll put the links in the show notes below so anybody can click through. 202 00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:46,580 Kevin Mako: Chris, thanks again for all your words of wisdom on how to understand marketing and how to do marketing 203 00:17:46,580 --> 00:17:52,220 Kevin Mako: right focus on return on investment, which is how all hardware startups should really be looking at 204 00:17:52,220 --> 00:17:56,560 Kevin Mako: their marketing and sales initiatives, making sure that when they're spending money, they're making lots of 205 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,460 Kevin Mako: sales as a result. So thanks again, Chris, for being on the show. We look forward to 206 00:17:59,460 --> 00:18:03,740 Kevin Mako: to talk to you again soon. You're welcome. Thanks. Take care. Thanks for tuning in to this episode 207 00:18:03,740 --> 00:18:09,080 Kevin Mako: of the Product Startup Podcast. If you found some value in the show, please do us a huge favor 208 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:14,620 Kevin Mako: and hit the like button and subscribe. If you have any questions, guest suggestions, or anything else, 209 00:18:14,820 --> 00:18:21,640 Kevin Mako: feel free to reach out to us anytime at our email, podcast at MakoDesign.com. This show is hosted 210 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:26,540 Kevin Mako: by Kevin Mako, North America's leading expert on product development for hardware startup. 211 00:18:26,560 --> 00:18:47,740 Kevin Mako: And the podcast is produced by Mako Design, the original firm providing end-to-end consumer product development services tailored specifically to hardware startups, small manufacturers, and inventors. Take your product from idea to store shelves at MakoDesign.com. That's M-A-K-O-Design.com. Thanks for joining and see you again soon.