1
00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,240
Glenn Harper:
Welcome to another edition, The Empowering Entrepreneurs,

2
00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:04,200
The Harper and Company Way. I'm Glenn Harper

3
00:00:04,230 --> 00:00:06,060
Julie Smith:
I'm Julie Smith.

4
00:00:06,210 --> 00:00:07,730
Glenn Harper:
Good to see you, Julie. What's up today?

5
00:00:07,740 --> 00:00:10,710
Julie Smith:
You're a little red. What happened this week in college

6
00:00:10,710 --> 00:00:11,430
graduation?

7
00:00:11,430 --> 00:00:14,790
Glenn Harper:
And I was under the welder at the stadium, watched my

8
00:00:14,790 --> 00:00:16,950
daughter graduate. And apparently you're supposed to wear

9
00:00:16,950 --> 00:00:19,920
sunscreen for that when you're there for 4 hours and got

10
00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:20,070
you.

11
00:00:20,370 --> 00:00:21,330
Julie Smith:
You missed that memo.

12
00:00:21,330 --> 00:00:23,400
Glenn Harper:
But yeah, but we'll get it next time.

13
00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,950
Daughter Number three It will be in a couple of years and

14
00:00:25,950 --> 00:00:29,070
I'll wear the big hat so I can be a safari guy.

15
00:00:29,520 --> 00:00:32,130
Well, I just wanted to start today.

16
00:00:32,130 --> 00:00:35,310
We've got a guest today named Jon Appino, and he's a fellow

17
00:00:35,310 --> 00:00:38,910
entrepreneur. He's the brains behind Contract Diagnostics,

18
00:00:38,910 --> 00:00:40,620
a physician contract review.

19
00:00:41,250 --> 00:00:43,560
It's a company that provides industry specific data.

20
00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:47,040
John will review the physician's specific, specific

21
00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,560
contract and then partner with them to negotiate the more

22
00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:52,350
favorable contracts, which sounds kind of intriguing.

23
00:00:52,620 --> 00:00:56,070
And, John, it looks like you're welcome and it looks like

24
00:00:56,070 --> 00:00:57,660
you're from Brookings, South Dakota.

25
00:00:57,660 --> 00:00:58,470
Is that true?

26
00:00:59,550 --> 00:01:00,990
Jon Appino:
Big city of dreams.

27
00:01:00,990 --> 00:01:01,860
I'm absolutely.

28
00:01:02,340 --> 00:01:03,390
Glenn Harper:
It's the craziest thing.

29
00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:08,070
You're the second guest in our and our like window here.

30
00:01:08,070 --> 00:01:10,200
That is from Brookings, South Dakota, which is in the

31
00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,630
fourth largest city in South Dakota, which is really cool.

32
00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:16,290
Is that how you decide to go to South Dakota State there?

33
00:01:17,490 --> 00:01:22,530
Jon Appino:
Unfortunately, I took the easy path and I did jump out of

34
00:01:22,530 --> 00:01:24,820
South Dakota for my undergrad.

35
00:01:24,840 --> 00:01:27,940
I stayed right there in my hometown and it was nice.

36
00:01:27,960 --> 00:01:30,270
My mom was close. I had tons of friends, but it was the

37
00:01:30,270 --> 00:01:32,100
easy thing to do. I wish I would have done it differently,

38
00:01:32,100 --> 00:01:33,270
but looking back. But.

39
00:01:33,270 --> 00:01:35,250
But, yeah, that's why I became a jackrabbit.

40
00:01:35,250 --> 00:01:36,350
And I'm not.

41
00:01:36,450 --> 00:01:38,250
I'm curious on who your other guest was.

42
00:01:38,370 --> 00:01:38,610
Well.

43
00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,690
Glenn Harper:
I heard I heard that you took the bookmobile for a joyride.

44
00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:43,530
Is that true?

45
00:01:44,190 --> 00:01:44,610
Jon Appino:
Well, I'm.

46
00:01:44,610 --> 00:01:45,870
Glenn Harper:
Sorry. The bookmobile.

47
00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:48,570
Apparently, south coast states got this one weird

48
00:01:48,570 --> 00:01:50,640
automobile thing that they do, and it's like a whole

49
00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:52,920
traditional thing for, like, the last 60 years or

50
00:01:52,920 --> 00:01:54,740
something. I didn't know if you were that.

51
00:01:54,750 --> 00:01:56,580
I just heard a rumor. I was just checking.

52
00:01:56,790 --> 00:02:00,420
Jon Appino:
Oh, I have not stolen any bookmobile, but hobo days is our

53
00:02:00,420 --> 00:02:05,460
big like our big our day and homecoming or whatever.

54
00:02:05,460 --> 00:02:09,240
And it's a big, giant party, and it's a ton of fun for

55
00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:09,720
sure.

56
00:02:09,990 --> 00:02:13,500
Glenn Harper:
Well, did you grow up on the agricultural side of it or are

57
00:02:13,500 --> 00:02:14,580
you a city kid?

58
00:02:14,910 --> 00:02:19,170
Jon Appino:
No, a city kid from South Dakota, the fourth largest, which

59
00:02:19,170 --> 00:02:24,180
is 25,000 people, maybe now, you know, so a city for South

60
00:02:24,180 --> 00:02:27,780
Dakota. And then I moved to Rapid City, which is a bigger

61
00:02:27,780 --> 00:02:29,520
city, you know, about 100,000.

62
00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,350
And then I moved to Kansas City, a bigger city, two and one

63
00:02:32,350 --> 00:02:35,190
half million. But all my friends from New York and from San

64
00:02:35,190 --> 00:02:38,310
Francisco still called Kansas City a little tiny cow town.

65
00:02:38,370 --> 00:02:41,030
Is that funny, I guess, based on your perspective?

66
00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,090
Glenn Harper:
Well, they just fly over it so they don't really know.

67
00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,680
Right. Did you end up in Kansas City for the ribs, the

68
00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,500
royals or the chiefs or just did happen to go there?

69
00:02:49,890 --> 00:02:53,400
Jon Appino:
No, I went down there for work, actually, and I had some

70
00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:57,090
family there. And it was an easy transition from where I

71
00:02:57,090 --> 00:02:59,940
was working in Rapid City after my undergrad.

72
00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,750
And then there was a bigger job, same company with a

73
00:03:03,750 --> 00:03:05,430
promotion and more money in Kansas City.

74
00:03:05,430 --> 00:03:07,830
And it was the path that I was in at that time in

75
00:03:07,830 --> 00:03:11,280
corporate, and that was like a great next step.

76
00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,380
It was a bigger city, more opportunity.

77
00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:15,450
Family there, still the Midwest.

78
00:03:15,450 --> 00:03:19,110
And it was still a big move for for us.

79
00:03:19,110 --> 00:03:22,830
But at the same time, it was an easy move with the company.

80
00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:26,100
Glenn Harper:
Well, you wanted to you wanted to be have a real job and be

81
00:03:26,100 --> 00:03:28,200
in the corporate America. Is that what your goal was at the

82
00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:28,830
time?

83
00:03:29,250 --> 00:03:32,940
Jon Appino:
It was. I worked in pharmaceuticals and in biotech and a

84
00:03:32,940 --> 00:03:35,340
couple of different companies and many different roles.

85
00:03:35,340 --> 00:03:38,340
I had lots of different roles in the organization, in the

86
00:03:38,340 --> 00:03:41,190
sales and the marketing and contracting and everything

87
00:03:41,190 --> 00:03:45,480
else. And it was a it was an interesting I learned a ton

88
00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,260
and it's what ended up leading me to find a niche, which is

89
00:03:49,260 --> 00:03:52,990
what drives me today and kind of crave the passion behind

90
00:03:53,010 --> 00:03:54,120
contract diagnostics.

91
00:03:54,820 --> 00:03:57,310
Glenn Harper:
Had you been a entrepreneur before?

92
00:03:57,340 --> 00:04:00,250
Growing up as a kid, your hustling, you know, yards and

93
00:04:00,250 --> 00:04:02,200
stuff like that, or was it not so much?

94
00:04:02,230 --> 00:04:03,250
Jon Appino:
Oh, funny enough.

95
00:04:03,250 --> 00:04:08,200
So I started a stereo company Car Stereos when I was 17,

96
00:04:09,130 --> 00:04:12,190
not because I wanted to have a big company and make a lot

97
00:04:12,190 --> 00:04:15,610
of money. There were certain brands of stereo equipment

98
00:04:15,610 --> 00:04:19,540
that we wanted in Brookings, and there was one, one small

99
00:04:19,540 --> 00:04:21,850
stereo company, and they didn't have the good brands and we

100
00:04:21,850 --> 00:04:25,240
didn't feel like they gave the customer a good deal.

101
00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:26,740
They didn't have the right brands, they didn't have good

102
00:04:26,740 --> 00:04:28,870
service. They were more like We wanted to sell and push

103
00:04:28,870 --> 00:04:31,570
stuff on you than provide value and service.

104
00:04:31,570 --> 00:04:34,780
And so my friend and I started a company at 17 just so we

105
00:04:34,780 --> 00:04:36,910
could get our brands, and it did well.

106
00:04:36,910 --> 00:04:38,260
It's still going successfully.

107
00:04:38,290 --> 00:04:40,360
I don't have a participation in it now.

108
00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:46,150
And then I started in what was it in 1999 in South Dakota.

109
00:04:46,660 --> 00:04:48,610
Maybe, I don't know, maybe the Internet was slower to catch

110
00:04:48,610 --> 00:04:52,660
on, but you could buy stuff online in the late nineties,

111
00:04:52,660 --> 00:04:55,750
and I was one of the few people who would go on and

112
00:04:55,750 --> 00:04:57,940
actually trust this computer with my credit card.

113
00:04:57,940 --> 00:05:00,970
And I set up a like a supplement distribution out of my

114
00:05:00,970 --> 00:05:03,730
dorm where I would get protein powders and create teens and

115
00:05:03,730 --> 00:05:06,040
vitamins in and sell them to the football players and the

116
00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:07,840
volleyball players and everything else.

117
00:05:08,170 --> 00:05:11,020
Again, not to make any money, not because I wanted to have

118
00:05:11,020 --> 00:05:14,320
a big company. I just wanted my protein powder for free.

119
00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,570
And so I got to meet a lot of good people.

120
00:05:16,570 --> 00:05:19,390
And I went and met with the football players and the coaches

121
00:05:19,390 --> 00:05:22,330
and we put packages together for the basketball players for

122
00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:23,920
four for summer training.

123
00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:28,000
I think the nearest GNC was one overpriced and it was in

124
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,480
Sioux Falls, which was a 45 minute drive, so you could buy

125
00:05:31,510 --> 00:05:32,950
protein powder in Brookings.

126
00:05:32,950 --> 00:05:36,670
So I set up a minimum order with a company called DPS

127
00:05:36,670 --> 00:05:38,800
Nutrition. I think they're still around today.

128
00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:44,110
And I used to get boxes and boxes of boxes delivered to my

129
00:05:44,110 --> 00:05:46,300
dorm room and I would sell it out of my dorm.

130
00:05:46,300 --> 00:05:48,030
So and that's it.

131
00:05:48,710 --> 00:05:50,320
Maybe it's been kind of built in.

132
00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,780
And then I went into corporate and I was in corporate for

133
00:05:52,780 --> 00:05:56,500
quite some time. And you know, at first, at first it worked

134
00:05:56,500 --> 00:06:01,180
really well. And then I think I just I got sick of some of

135
00:06:01,180 --> 00:06:05,110
the. Some of the the box, if you will, that corporate puts

136
00:06:05,110 --> 00:06:09,970
you in. And when you want it, when you're creative and you

137
00:06:09,970 --> 00:06:13,420
think out of the box like an entrepreneur does, and you try

138
00:06:13,420 --> 00:06:15,580
to apply some of those in the corporate space, sometimes

139
00:06:15,580 --> 00:06:17,290
they say, well, that's not how we do it here.

140
00:06:17,290 --> 00:06:18,460
That's against policy.

141
00:06:18,460 --> 00:06:19,870
Or You can't do that.

142
00:06:19,870 --> 00:06:23,020
Or, you know, that's not your job at somebody else's.

143
00:06:23,020 --> 00:06:27,610
And sometimes you, you, you stick out and sometimes you

144
00:06:27,610 --> 00:06:29,990
decide to go your own way, which I ultimately did.

145
00:06:30,010 --> 00:06:32,800
Julie Smith:
So how many times did you get told you can't do something

146
00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:34,840
before you thought, all right, I got to do something

147
00:06:34,840 --> 00:06:35,470
different?

148
00:06:36,010 --> 00:06:37,540
Jon Appino:
Oh, I don't know.

149
00:06:37,570 --> 00:06:38,680
I don't know.

150
00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:41,770
But it was one of those, like, you know, whether I was I

151
00:06:41,770 --> 00:06:44,200
wanted to I wanted to work my way through the organization,

152
00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,990
and I wanted to live in New York in a big, high rise.

153
00:06:46,990 --> 00:06:50,740
And I wanted to work 80 hour weeks and wear a $2,000 suit

154
00:06:50,740 --> 00:06:53,110
every day. And that's what I wanted.

155
00:06:53,110 --> 00:06:55,480
And I wanted to have the big job with the big money.

156
00:06:55,480 --> 00:07:01,450
And and and I thought I wanted and then once I tried to

157
00:07:01,450 --> 00:07:05,140
kind of create my path and that's not how it was done, I

158
00:07:05,140 --> 00:07:06,550
just kind of got sour on it.

159
00:07:06,550 --> 00:07:09,460
And there was a promotion that thank goodness it didn't

160
00:07:09,460 --> 00:07:10,750
happen going to Denver.

161
00:07:10,750 --> 00:07:13,450
And that kind of soured me even more.

162
00:07:13,450 --> 00:07:16,480
And then I just I started looking at other options and I

163
00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,030
started contract diagnostics, which started out at a

164
00:07:19,030 --> 00:07:22,450
separate company, and then just kind of morphed into what

165
00:07:22,450 --> 00:07:23,470
it is today.

166
00:07:23,470 --> 00:07:26,050
And I just kind of started it on the side, you know, and I

167
00:07:26,050 --> 00:07:29,320
work nights and weekends and it took some time and it

168
00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:32,140
provided some financial stability for my family as it as it

169
00:07:32,140 --> 00:07:33,460
started to be profitable.

170
00:07:33,850 --> 00:07:36,040
But I didn't need the money so I could put it back in.

171
00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:40,360
So yeah, I don't regret my time in corporate at all.

172
00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:41,400
I mean, I learned a ton.

173
00:07:41,410 --> 00:07:43,960
I met some great lifelong friends.

174
00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:47,140
They paid well so I could live off of that, so I could

175
00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:49,360
invest in the company at an early age.

176
00:07:49,360 --> 00:07:51,100
I didn't have to worry about making a profit.

177
00:07:51,100 --> 00:07:53,080
I could worry about the customers and making a good

178
00:07:53,080 --> 00:07:57,190
product. And so so yeah it's been an interesting and

179
00:07:57,250 --> 00:07:58,270
industry. Well, for sure.

180
00:07:58,270 --> 00:08:02,020
Glenn Harper:
Well, it's kind of funny. It's from selling stereos and the

181
00:08:02,020 --> 00:08:05,170
protein powder. And then now this contract services you're

182
00:08:05,170 --> 00:08:07,090
selling what people didn't even know they needed.

183
00:08:07,240 --> 00:08:09,400
And you're like, they don't even know they have a better

184
00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:10,900
stereo, but I'm going to go sell them.

185
00:08:10,900 --> 00:08:12,820
They don't even know the protein powder because they all

186
00:08:12,820 --> 00:08:14,980
eat meat. But I'm going to give them protein powder and

187
00:08:14,980 --> 00:08:17,140
they don't even know that they'll need a whole big law firm

188
00:08:17,140 --> 00:08:18,370
to do a contract.

189
00:08:18,370 --> 00:08:19,570
They can use me to do this.

190
00:08:19,570 --> 00:08:21,190
So how about that?

191
00:08:21,670 --> 00:08:24,340
That's. That's definitely the trail of an entrepreneur, for

192
00:08:24,340 --> 00:08:24,970
sure.

193
00:08:24,970 --> 00:08:27,250
Jon Appino:
Yeah, well, we kind of you know, when I was looking at this

194
00:08:27,250 --> 00:08:30,910
market, you know, 12 years ago or so, there really wasn't

195
00:08:30,910 --> 00:08:33,730
like there wasn't like a national brand.

196
00:08:33,730 --> 00:08:37,900
And I had lots of friends who were physicians who who could

197
00:08:38,410 --> 00:08:39,640
who could kind of give me guidance.

198
00:08:39,640 --> 00:08:41,380
I said, Well, who'd you use for this service?

199
00:08:41,380 --> 00:08:44,080
And, you know, they didn't know they should, or they called

200
00:08:44,080 --> 00:08:46,570
some local attorney who didn't understand physicians and

201
00:08:46,570 --> 00:08:49,840
physician contracts. And, you know, they if they were

202
00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:52,540
living in Kansas City, but they were starting a job in

203
00:08:52,540 --> 00:08:54,610
Texas, do I get a lawyer in Kansas City?

204
00:08:54,610 --> 00:08:56,020
Do I call somewhere in Texas?

205
00:08:56,020 --> 00:08:57,670
How do I find someone in Texas?

206
00:08:58,870 --> 00:09:00,790
Do I meet with them? Do I have a phone call?

207
00:09:00,790 --> 00:09:01,870
Do we email what's best?

208
00:09:01,870 --> 00:09:04,360
There was no real guidance and there's no real national

209
00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,610
company that could just do everything in all 50 states.

210
00:09:06,610 --> 00:09:11,080
So we found a nation and yeah, and now we have a new

211
00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,930
product that I feel hundreds of thousands of physicians

212
00:09:13,930 --> 00:09:17,200
need. And now we're back in the process of telling them,

213
00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,560
you know, teaching them that they do absolutely need this

214
00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:23,740
product. And I mentioned to my my team all the time that I

215
00:09:23,740 --> 00:09:27,400
feel like we're trying to sell an iPhone in 1984, you know,

216
00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,280
and you should try it. You need this in your pocket.

217
00:09:30,280 --> 00:09:32,440
It's going to revolutionize the way you live.

218
00:09:32,440 --> 00:09:34,780
And people would say, What are you talking about?

219
00:09:34,780 --> 00:09:36,460
There's no way I need this thing, you know?

220
00:09:36,490 --> 00:09:39,580
So it's it's it's fun and challenging at the same time.

221
00:09:40,610 --> 00:09:42,650
Glenn Harper:
We thought this would be a great time.

222
00:09:42,650 --> 00:09:45,820
Segue into tell us, what is it that your company does?

223
00:09:45,830 --> 00:09:48,230
It sounds like you're kind of practicing law, but not

224
00:09:48,230 --> 00:09:49,580
really. But you're in all the states.

225
00:09:49,580 --> 00:09:52,310
But how does that how does that work when you're giving

226
00:09:52,310 --> 00:09:53,630
this kind of advice for clients?

227
00:09:53,630 --> 00:09:54,700
Tell us what you kind of do.

228
00:09:54,710 --> 00:09:58,040
I'm a physician and I have to, you know, get hired in.

229
00:09:58,040 --> 00:09:59,060
I got to sign a contract.

230
00:09:59,060 --> 00:10:00,260
Do I call you first?

231
00:10:00,260 --> 00:10:01,220
How does that work?

232
00:10:01,730 --> 00:10:04,820
Jon Appino:
Yeah. So we've got great attorneys that work here, but we

233
00:10:04,820 --> 00:10:07,160
don't operate like a law firm, so we don't give legal

234
00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,470
advice. We're consultants, if you will.

235
00:10:09,470 --> 00:10:13,400
So we understand the way that a physician should understand

236
00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,370
risk in a contract so we can go through it with him or her

237
00:10:16,370 --> 00:10:19,040
and really kind of explain it in plain English.

238
00:10:19,040 --> 00:10:21,650
As far as what's clear in the document, if something's not

239
00:10:21,650 --> 00:10:23,150
clear, we don't interpret it.

240
00:10:23,180 --> 00:10:25,700
We tell the physician that they need to go better

241
00:10:25,700 --> 00:10:28,790
understand it or have it be more clear in the agreement.

242
00:10:29,330 --> 00:10:32,720
But we spend a lot of time focusing on compensation.

243
00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:36,680
So physician compensation has changed dramatically over the

244
00:10:36,680 --> 00:10:40,310
years and some of them are paid on productivity and some of

245
00:10:40,310 --> 00:10:43,130
them have very dynamic productivity structures.

246
00:10:43,130 --> 00:10:46,700
I mean, some compensation plans will be six or seven total

247
00:10:46,700 --> 00:10:51,260
pages long in themselves and they have no idea what our

248
00:10:51,260 --> 00:10:55,810
views are or what collection ratios are fair or, you know,

249
00:10:55,910 --> 00:10:59,870
how to analyze a report as far as their profitability or

250
00:10:59,870 --> 00:11:03,590
not. So we spend a lot of time just discussing and

251
00:11:03,590 --> 00:11:07,220
explaining what their particular situation is, comparing

252
00:11:07,220 --> 00:11:09,020
what they have to the market value.

253
00:11:09,020 --> 00:11:12,320
So if you're a cardiologist in Chicago, it's much different

254
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,650
than a cardiologist in Texas or a cardiologist in

255
00:11:15,650 --> 00:11:20,180
California. But a cardiologist in you know, in in San Jose

256
00:11:20,300 --> 00:11:22,700
is much different than one in Sacramento and much different

257
00:11:22,700 --> 00:11:24,440
than one in San Diego.

258
00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:27,230
And if you're at a hospital or a small practice, they're

259
00:11:27,230 --> 00:11:28,550
also dramatically different.

260
00:11:28,550 --> 00:11:32,990
So since this is all we do, we can focus and talk to the

261
00:11:32,990 --> 00:11:35,450
physician in a way that a physician needs to be talked

262
00:11:35,450 --> 00:11:38,090
with, because, of course, a cardiologist has a different

263
00:11:38,090 --> 00:11:42,110
personality typically than a pediatrician, different than a

264
00:11:42,110 --> 00:11:45,290
surgeon. So we're able to kind of talk to each individual

265
00:11:45,290 --> 00:11:50,090
physician in their language and kind of coach them on.

266
00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:52,340
We might have to we might have to really motivate a

267
00:11:52,340 --> 00:11:54,440
pediatrician to ask for more money because they're so

268
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:55,520
sweet. They're so kind.

269
00:11:55,520 --> 00:11:58,870
They would they how do I how do I ask for $5,000?

270
00:11:59,210 --> 00:12:02,660
And we sometimes have to tame the surgeon because they want

271
00:12:02,660 --> 00:12:04,880
to go in and say, I'm going to ask for 50,000.

272
00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:08,330
And, you know, well, maybe that's not market norm.

273
00:12:08,330 --> 00:12:11,660
So we basically just get to discuss with them and we give

274
00:12:11,660 --> 00:12:15,650
them guidance on where the risk is and what how they could

275
00:12:15,650 --> 00:12:18,830
better discuss it, how they can understand it and how they

276
00:12:18,830 --> 00:12:21,920
can have a good discussion with the employer both now while

277
00:12:21,920 --> 00:12:24,260
they have the contract and then moving forward throughout

278
00:12:24,260 --> 00:12:28,210
their career. So I hate to say, like, I, it's, it's, it's

279
00:12:28,220 --> 00:12:29,600
simple. It's not easy.

280
00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:33,050
We just look at contract and we just talk to doctors and

281
00:12:33,050 --> 00:12:34,940
there's there's a lot of stuff that goes on in the

282
00:12:34,940 --> 00:12:39,140
background with compensation data, understanding market

283
00:12:39,140 --> 00:12:42,410
trends, understanding how different markets might move from

284
00:12:42,410 --> 00:12:45,470
one to the next and and everything else.

285
00:12:45,470 --> 00:12:48,230
So simple, not easy, I guess is an easy way to say it.

286
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:51,560
Julie Smith:
So, John, I'm curious, you were in your corporate job doing

287
00:12:51,560 --> 00:12:52,580
what you do.

288
00:12:52,580 --> 00:12:57,860
Where was the aha moment to create this to see this need to

289
00:12:57,860 --> 00:13:00,110
fulfill it? Obviously you did both for a little bit of

290
00:13:00,110 --> 00:13:03,890
time, but did someone come to you and ask for advice or

291
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,070
what kind of made you have that idea or that moment?

292
00:13:08,040 --> 00:13:12,360
Jon Appino:
So in my and in some of my roles, I interacted with

293
00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,940
physicians on a very routine basis.

294
00:13:14,940 --> 00:13:18,480
And I would just always I was always questioning, you know,

295
00:13:19,290 --> 00:13:20,700
what's the worst part of your day?

296
00:13:20,910 --> 00:13:23,800
What's what's a hassle when you're going through this one?

297
00:13:23,820 --> 00:13:27,000
I was just trying to become get to know them and be more be

298
00:13:27,030 --> 00:13:30,390
friends with them. But two, I was just curious and one of

299
00:13:30,390 --> 00:13:32,730
the things that a lot of physicians kept saying was when

300
00:13:32,730 --> 00:13:36,090
they finished their training, the process from I finished

301
00:13:36,090 --> 00:13:38,580
my medical training to I'm going to go get a job.

302
00:13:38,580 --> 00:13:41,520
It's very, very challenging.

303
00:13:41,520 --> 00:13:43,260
I mean, physicians all get jobs.

304
00:13:43,470 --> 00:13:45,150
We hear about the physician shortage.

305
00:13:45,150 --> 00:13:48,630
It's unlike a college grad who tries to get a job in

306
00:13:48,630 --> 00:13:51,240
accounting and they can't find anything in accounting.

307
00:13:51,900 --> 00:13:54,540
But physicians always find jobs that might not be the ideal

308
00:13:54,540 --> 00:13:57,030
location or the ideal place, but they always get jobs.

309
00:13:57,030 --> 00:14:01,440
And then with most opportunities, a contract comes with it.

310
00:14:01,470 --> 00:14:04,860
But we didn't want to work on the contract at first because

311
00:14:04,860 --> 00:14:07,740
all the physicians said the process of finding a job is

312
00:14:07,740 --> 00:14:11,040
difficult. The process of relocating all of our stuff is

313
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:13,620
challenging. They typically finish their training in June,

314
00:14:13,620 --> 00:14:16,500
but they don't start jobs until August or even September

315
00:14:16,500 --> 00:14:19,830
once they're board certified and they've got credentials at

316
00:14:19,830 --> 00:14:21,390
the hospital and everything else.

317
00:14:21,390 --> 00:14:23,820
So there's that lag in there where they don't have

318
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,280
financial means. Sometimes they don't have a job.

319
00:14:26,280 --> 00:14:28,950
So they're kind of waiting and doing paperwork and moving

320
00:14:28,950 --> 00:14:32,100
and everything else. But they said their recruiters, all my

321
00:14:32,100 --> 00:14:35,000
friends said the recruiters were a pain in the side.

322
00:14:35,010 --> 00:14:38,020
They said this contract thing is a pain in the side.

323
00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:42,330
They said Just transitioning, just understanding what comes

324
00:14:42,330 --> 00:14:43,710
next is just a hassle.

325
00:14:43,710 --> 00:14:46,890
So I was going to create a company called New Cloud

326
00:14:46,890 --> 00:14:49,110
Medical, which is actually the parent company of contract

327
00:14:49,110 --> 00:14:52,980
diagnostics at DBA and knew Cloud was going to do

328
00:14:52,980 --> 00:14:55,530
everything. We going to reinvent the entire thing.

329
00:14:55,530 --> 00:14:57,180
We were going to reinvent recruiting.

330
00:14:57,180 --> 00:14:59,790
We're going to reinvent contract reviews.

331
00:14:59,790 --> 00:15:02,820
We're going to reinvent I mean, I was going to have a card

332
00:15:02,820 --> 00:15:05,700
that they can go down to their local BMW dealership and get

333
00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:09,810
a discount on a BMW if they wanted to or a moving company,

334
00:15:09,810 --> 00:15:10,830
they could get a discount.

335
00:15:10,830 --> 00:15:12,960
We're going to have a real estate division and a banking

336
00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,420
division and an investment division and sell them life

337
00:15:15,420 --> 00:15:17,100
insurance and disability insurance.

338
00:15:17,100 --> 00:15:20,100
And we were going to do everything and reinvent it all.

339
00:15:20,100 --> 00:15:23,970
And and so that's the way the company started.

340
00:15:23,970 --> 00:15:27,420
And of course, I realize you can't do everything great.

341
00:15:27,420 --> 00:15:30,900
And one of the things I didn't like around the recruiting

342
00:15:30,900 --> 00:15:34,710
thing was all the phone calls and all the back and forth

343
00:15:34,710 --> 00:15:39,330
emails and, you know, at the at the stereo company, people

344
00:15:39,330 --> 00:15:42,210
would come in, you'd help them, you'd sell them a stereo,

345
00:15:42,210 --> 00:15:43,440
and it was transactional.

346
00:15:43,550 --> 00:15:47,100
You buy something from me for $200 and I make $35 or

347
00:15:47,100 --> 00:15:48,900
whatever. There's a transaction.

348
00:15:48,900 --> 00:15:51,330
I like that I could go home at the end of the day saying I

349
00:15:51,330 --> 00:15:54,090
worked for 8 hours. I got to help five people and four

350
00:15:54,090 --> 00:15:56,640
people bought something from me and I made $100 or so.

351
00:15:57,210 --> 00:15:59,370
But with recruiting, much like with real estate, you might

352
00:15:59,370 --> 00:16:02,700
show a ton of houses or you might make a ton of phone calls

353
00:16:02,700 --> 00:16:06,090
and then nobody signs and nobody calls you back.

354
00:16:06,090 --> 00:16:10,230
It's hard to decide if my day was well spent or not, and

355
00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:13,770
you might make $20,000 on some random day or 30,000 on some

356
00:16:13,770 --> 00:16:15,390
random day with one phone call.

357
00:16:15,570 --> 00:16:17,670
But you might go a month before you do that.

358
00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:19,320
And I didn't like that.

359
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:22,110
And so we did some contract reviews and I like that

360
00:16:22,110 --> 00:16:23,310
transactional nature.

361
00:16:23,310 --> 00:16:26,340
We provide you a service and knowledge and you give us

362
00:16:26,340 --> 00:16:30,480
money and and that we can do it again and again and again.

363
00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,690
And then I start looking at the market and talking to other

364
00:16:33,690 --> 00:16:36,630
friends and I realized that there was no company that was

365
00:16:36,630 --> 00:16:39,690
really looking at this thing on a national basis that was

366
00:16:39,690 --> 00:16:42,720
just a national brand that anybody can call in any state

367
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:44,880
and get good advice from people who knew what they were

368
00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,790
doing. So that's where we kind of started contract or I

369
00:16:47,790 --> 00:16:51,360
started contract diagnostics and we kind of dropped

370
00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:54,960
everything else because I said I'd rather be world class at

371
00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,650
one thing then sort of kind of good at a whole bunch of

372
00:16:58,650 --> 00:17:01,340
things. And so then we started contract or I started

373
00:17:01,350 --> 00:17:02,640
contract diagnostics.

374
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:05,730
I think 12 years ago, maybe it was we've had some copycats,

375
00:17:05,730 --> 00:17:08,760
which is really kind of cool, I think, as far as other

376
00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:10,380
companies now, which is fun.

377
00:17:10,680 --> 00:17:14,910
But, but it started with something else and it ended up

378
00:17:16,470 --> 00:17:19,260
being totally different than what I had initially had the

379
00:17:19,260 --> 00:17:20,190
vision for.

380
00:17:20,220 --> 00:17:22,830
Julie Smith:
So in the beginning, and as you went through that process of

381
00:17:22,830 --> 00:17:25,620
starting it, did you have a mentor or someone that was

382
00:17:25,620 --> 00:17:28,800
really by your side that you could ask that advice and get

383
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,590
the solid truth instead of maybe what you wanted to hear?

384
00:17:32,690 --> 00:17:35,750
Jon Appino:
You know, nobody like nobody that I would say I met with

385
00:17:35,750 --> 00:17:38,390
like every single week, you know, and they sat down and

386
00:17:38,390 --> 00:17:39,470
they grilled me.

387
00:17:39,860 --> 00:17:44,240
You know, my dad worked for a guy that in Brookings, Larson

388
00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,570
Storm doors and Dale Larson is a fantastic person and a

389
00:17:47,570 --> 00:17:51,290
wonderful entrepreneur and now a brilliant philanthropist.

390
00:17:51,290 --> 00:17:54,080
But I mean, I guess his whole life has been and I would

391
00:17:54,320 --> 00:17:57,470
talk to Dale from time to time, and he would you know, he

392
00:17:57,470 --> 00:17:59,570
would kind of just give me global advice.

393
00:17:59,570 --> 00:18:01,310
You know, here's how to think of this.

394
00:18:01,310 --> 00:18:03,290
Here's how to give back, you know, here's how to treat

395
00:18:03,290 --> 00:18:04,910
people if you ever hire anybody.

396
00:18:05,930 --> 00:18:08,960
But it wasn't necessarily like I was bringing my business

397
00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:11,960
problems to him. It was more kind of just global advice.

398
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:14,450
And I had a handful of relationships like that that I could

399
00:18:14,450 --> 00:18:17,960
get kind of global advice on or coaches, if you will.

400
00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:21,080
But nobody that I could really sit down and say, this is my

401
00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:24,530
problem with this company or this website or this

402
00:18:24,530 --> 00:18:26,990
competitor or this pricing for packaging.

403
00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:30,710
It was just all kind of I just it was just kind of me in my

404
00:18:30,710 --> 00:18:35,240
basement, sleepless nights and a lot of weekends and and

405
00:18:35,270 --> 00:18:36,140
everything else.

406
00:18:36,530 --> 00:18:40,160
Glenn Harper:
You know, it's it's a funny thing listening to you, because

407
00:18:40,370 --> 00:18:43,970
I think one of the cool parts about this is that you had

408
00:18:43,970 --> 00:18:48,080
already been indoctrinated talking to surgeons and doctors

409
00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,440
and and all these folks, and they just think about things

410
00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:52,640
in a little different way.

411
00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,460
And you just got to learn how to communicate with them and

412
00:18:55,460 --> 00:18:57,140
listen to what they're really saying, because really they

413
00:18:57,140 --> 00:18:58,580
just want to go do doctoring stuff.

414
00:18:58,580 --> 00:19:01,700
They don't really want to do anything else, but they just

415
00:19:01,700 --> 00:19:04,760
probably didn't feel like anybody ever listened or nor that

416
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:07,100
they even know the question to ask about the other stuff.

417
00:19:07,100 --> 00:19:10,130
And we see that doctors, they just don't know the financial

418
00:19:10,130 --> 00:19:12,940
part of things and what it means for taxes and retirement

419
00:19:12,940 --> 00:19:14,810
and all those protections like you were mentioning, those

420
00:19:14,810 --> 00:19:17,030
other services that you were going to provide.

421
00:19:17,030 --> 00:19:19,430
You know, there's a great opportunity for that because, you

422
00:19:19,430 --> 00:19:21,950
know, people really want someone they can trust to do all

423
00:19:21,950 --> 00:19:25,010
those things. And so I think it's interesting that you

424
00:19:25,010 --> 00:19:27,470
really didn't need to know what to sell.

425
00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:30,170
You just knew how to talk to people and you just listen to

426
00:19:30,170 --> 00:19:32,180
them. And all of a sudden, there you are.

427
00:19:32,210 --> 00:19:33,940
Now you've had to figure out how to package it.

428
00:19:33,950 --> 00:19:36,800
How did you come up with your packaging process and

429
00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,410
knowing, Hey, I got to be able to scale this thing.

430
00:19:39,410 --> 00:19:41,060
I don't want to just deal with ten clients.

431
00:19:41,060 --> 00:19:43,430
I want to deal with thousands and not only going to be

432
00:19:43,430 --> 00:19:45,830
thousands of clients, but they're going to start in these

433
00:19:45,830 --> 00:19:49,580
three states. And then in five years, doctors always move.

434
00:19:49,580 --> 00:19:51,740
I'm going to have to be in these 12 states and then three

435
00:19:51,740 --> 00:19:53,780
more years I got to be in 50 states.

436
00:19:53,780 --> 00:19:55,160
How did you figure that part out?

437
00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,210
Jon Appino:
I did a lot of the work on my own at first.

438
00:20:00,210 --> 00:20:04,710
And, you know, I had some contractors that I would have,

439
00:20:04,710 --> 00:20:07,080
you know, help out with various things.

440
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:12,090
But I think the company just kind of organically grew.

441
00:20:12,450 --> 00:20:16,200
And I put more time in and less time in corporate and more

442
00:20:16,200 --> 00:20:18,630
time in the company and less time in corporate.

443
00:20:19,350 --> 00:20:23,640
And then when we got to the right, when I was at my

444
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,120
capacity where we just couldn't help any more people, I

445
00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:29,640
thought we could raise prices and maybe we'll get less

446
00:20:29,640 --> 00:20:32,280
business and we'll still make the same amount of money.

447
00:20:32,280 --> 00:20:35,410
Or I could bring somebody else on, you know.

448
00:20:35,430 --> 00:20:38,160
And so I brought someone to help a little bit, you know,

449
00:20:38,160 --> 00:20:39,750
and we're still a small company.

450
00:20:39,750 --> 00:20:42,210
We just got a handful of associates here that work with us.

451
00:20:42,210 --> 00:20:45,510
But, you know, over the years, I've always, you know, I've

452
00:20:45,510 --> 00:20:49,710
appropriately scaled and maybe that's, you know, maybe my

453
00:20:49,710 --> 00:20:52,650
risk tolerance for a typical entrepreneur is much less

454
00:20:52,650 --> 00:20:54,750
because I haven't cashed out the 401.

455
00:20:54,750 --> 00:20:58,710
K and hired, you know, five people at once and then worried

456
00:20:58,710 --> 00:21:03,480
about it later. I've just kind of very slowly scaled over

457
00:21:03,900 --> 00:21:06,720
the last 12 years, and it was probably just me for the

458
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:11,040
first five years where I did everything from billing to,

459
00:21:11,070 --> 00:21:14,880
you know, to accounting to all the emails, to paperwork.

460
00:21:14,880 --> 00:21:17,310
And I had like some contractors that I would have help with

461
00:21:17,310 --> 00:21:18,360
some attorneys in that thing.

462
00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:21,630
But, but then I brought somebody on to help with the books

463
00:21:21,630 --> 00:21:24,330
and then I brought somebody on to help with contracts.

464
00:21:24,330 --> 00:21:27,210
And then I brought and then my, my at the time, the gal who

465
00:21:27,210 --> 00:21:30,030
was helping me with billing, she took on more tasks and

466
00:21:30,030 --> 00:21:34,140
more roles and she went from 7 hours a week to now.

467
00:21:34,140 --> 00:21:38,190
I mean, she's probably seven or 9 hours a day, you know, so

468
00:21:38,250 --> 00:21:41,010
so we just kind of appropriately and slowly kind of gone

469
00:21:41,010 --> 00:21:43,080
from there. But I did a lot of the work at first.

470
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:46,080
And, you know, it's those late nights and those those

471
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,360
weekends that you give up that I think build.

472
00:21:48,930 --> 00:21:51,150
And you have that grit that builds a lot of character when

473
00:21:51,150 --> 00:21:53,190
you're starting a company and then you look back and you

474
00:21:53,190 --> 00:21:55,380
appreciate it much more when your schedule's a little more

475
00:21:55,380 --> 00:21:55,830
open.

476
00:21:55,860 --> 00:21:58,830
Glenn Harper:
This seems really weird that like it just didn't magically

477
00:21:58,830 --> 00:22:01,860
happen overnight. You're a multi gazillionaire with 1000

478
00:22:01,860 --> 00:22:04,590
employees. You mean it takes time and effort and sacrifice?

479
00:22:04,620 --> 00:22:06,780
Is that you telling us something different that other

480
00:22:06,780 --> 00:22:08,280
people tell us is so weird?

481
00:22:08,670 --> 00:22:12,660
Jon Appino:
I don't know if that's a pass now with, you know, bitcoin

482
00:22:12,960 --> 00:22:15,750
and all that stuff or if it's if it's still one of those

483
00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:17,700
things that, you know, you find something that you really

484
00:22:17,700 --> 00:22:21,500
enjoy. You put your heart soul into it and and you work it

485
00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:22,560
till you're blue in the face.

486
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:25,710
And you don't give up and you provide good products and

487
00:22:25,710 --> 00:22:27,120
then and things happen.

488
00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:29,580
Glenn Harper:
I think that's, you know, this, this, this podcast is all

489
00:22:29,580 --> 00:22:32,250
about the journey and how to get from A to B, from, you

490
00:22:32,250 --> 00:22:33,630
know, real job to an entrepreneur.

491
00:22:33,630 --> 00:22:36,660
And so when you had real job and decided to do this thing

492
00:22:36,660 --> 00:22:39,870
on the side, how long did it take for you to be double

493
00:22:39,870 --> 00:22:43,680
dipping before you said, you know, that's it, it's time I'm

494
00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:45,030
going full on in?

495
00:22:45,030 --> 00:22:46,980
How long a time was that, you think?

496
00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:53,280
Jon Appino:
Again from my my individual risk tolerance is probably much

497
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,040
different than a lot of typical brewers.

498
00:22:56,850 --> 00:23:00,180
I would say maybe it was seven years.

499
00:23:00,210 --> 00:23:00,840
Glenn Harper:
Oh, wow.

500
00:23:01,260 --> 00:23:02,550
Jon Appino:
Well, maybe eight years.

501
00:23:02,910 --> 00:23:05,250
And it just kind of again, it just kind of slowly kind of

502
00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:10,350
came on and I will schedule at my in my in corporate.

503
00:23:10,350 --> 00:23:13,410
So it wasn't an 8 to 5 Monday through Friday type of job.

504
00:23:13,620 --> 00:23:15,990
Some days were longer, some days were shorter.

505
00:23:16,650 --> 00:23:19,830
You know, some nights I worked and then I took the other

506
00:23:19,830 --> 00:23:24,840
the next day off. And so the job was was very flexible and

507
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,060
more results based than time based.

508
00:23:27,060 --> 00:23:28,500
And I had great results.

509
00:23:28,500 --> 00:23:30,300
And so my time wasn't questioned.

510
00:23:31,260 --> 00:23:34,740
But, but yeah, it probably took that long, which again, it

511
00:23:34,740 --> 00:23:38,490
allowed me to not only bring the company up, but as I was

512
00:23:38,490 --> 00:23:41,520
working, you know, I could invest a little in the company.

513
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,460
But it also because the company ended up making two or

514
00:23:44,460 --> 00:23:48,540
three times what my, my, my salary in corporate was.

515
00:23:48,990 --> 00:23:52,290
And so it wasn't a thing about I should leave because I can

516
00:23:52,290 --> 00:23:55,850
afford to leave. But then it became, How do we feel again?

517
00:23:55,860 --> 00:23:58,890
My risk tolerance might be less than some entrepreneurs.

518
00:23:58,890 --> 00:24:01,230
So we spent time paying off debt.

519
00:24:01,230 --> 00:24:03,060
We spent time saving money for the kids.

520
00:24:03,060 --> 00:24:05,580
My wife was working a lot at the time as well, and we spent

521
00:24:05,580 --> 00:24:08,520
time paying off the house and, you know, and really kind of

522
00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:11,910
getting in a solid financial position, both with contract

523
00:24:11,910 --> 00:24:14,310
diagnostics and us individually.

524
00:24:14,310 --> 00:24:17,610
And and then we made a decision to leave corporate together.

525
00:24:17,610 --> 00:24:21,840
And it actually took it was actually we made a decision to

526
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:23,250
leave on a particular day.

527
00:24:23,250 --> 00:24:27,420
And it was actually the plan was kind of blown up because

528
00:24:27,420 --> 00:24:30,930
the company it was a fantastic company.

529
00:24:30,930 --> 00:24:32,070
But they actually came to us.

530
00:24:32,070 --> 00:24:34,320
They were they were going to fold the division that I was

531
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:37,500
working in because it was a product that was running off of

532
00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:39,540
a patent and pharmaceuticals and biotech.

533
00:24:39,540 --> 00:24:42,870
And so as that product was coming off of the patent, they

534
00:24:42,870 --> 00:24:44,940
didn't have any where to assign the division.

535
00:24:44,940 --> 00:24:48,720
So they announced a year, a year in advance, I think a year

536
00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:50,460
and a couple of months in advance that they're going to

537
00:24:50,460 --> 00:24:53,310
dissolve the division and give everybody a severance

538
00:24:53,310 --> 00:24:57,120
package. So it's a little ironic that they actually paid me

539
00:24:57,120 --> 00:25:00,570
to leave. So it was kind of everything worked out great.

540
00:25:00,750 --> 00:25:02,610
But again, we had made a decision that we're going to leave

541
00:25:02,610 --> 00:25:05,160
on this particular day, on this particular month and the

542
00:25:05,160 --> 00:25:08,670
month before, we are going to throw the towel in, if you

543
00:25:08,670 --> 00:25:11,820
will, and give all the stock back and say, keep the job and

544
00:25:12,120 --> 00:25:13,410
the salary and everything.

545
00:25:13,770 --> 00:25:16,020
They announce that if I would wanted to stick around for a

546
00:25:16,020 --> 00:25:17,520
year, they were going to pay me to leave.

547
00:25:17,520 --> 00:25:20,970
And again, I didn't hate the job and the flexible schedule

548
00:25:20,970 --> 00:25:24,120
was was great and I had friends that I worked with.

549
00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:27,540
So it wasn't like maybe some or they hate their job and are

550
00:25:27,540 --> 00:25:30,120
grinding 8 to 5 Monday through Friday.

551
00:25:30,360 --> 00:25:33,300
I was able to spend a lot of time on contract diagnostics

552
00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:35,850
while still meeting expectations at corporate.

553
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:39,540
And then we kind of made a decision with my wife to stick

554
00:25:39,540 --> 00:25:43,170
around for another year just from a financial decision.

555
00:25:43,170 --> 00:25:45,720
It was a good one to make, and I didn't think that leaving

556
00:25:45,750 --> 00:25:49,320
that job to focus on contract diagnostics at the time was,

557
00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,960
was something that that that was urgent.

558
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:55,740
Urgent. But then we did book a trip to take our kids to

559
00:25:55,740 --> 00:25:59,850
Italy the entire summer of 2019, which is when we, when we

560
00:25:59,850 --> 00:26:01,320
ended up leaving corporate.

561
00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,860
And, and then we kind of celebrated by spending the entire

562
00:26:04,860 --> 00:26:07,170
summer of 2019 with the kids in Italy.

563
00:26:07,170 --> 00:26:08,610
So it worked out well.

564
00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,820
Glenn Harper:
Is there a way I can get the number of that cushy corporate

565
00:26:11,820 --> 00:26:13,380
job so I can apply for that?

566
00:26:13,380 --> 00:26:14,550
That sounds awesome.

567
00:26:15,210 --> 00:26:17,910
Jon Appino:
Well, it was it. I mean, I hate to say it wasn't cushy.

568
00:26:17,910 --> 00:26:20,400
It was a ton of work. And you had to be very good and very

569
00:26:20,460 --> 00:26:21,660
talented at the position.

570
00:26:21,660 --> 00:26:26,100
But but yeah, it worked out well.

571
00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:29,100
And I still I still talk with my friends at the company

572
00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:32,370
and, you know, and I still miss everybody.

573
00:26:32,370 --> 00:26:34,520
I miss the camaraderie that we used to have, you know,

574
00:26:34,530 --> 00:26:36,960
because when you're in a small company, you know, it's just

575
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,790
different than when you're with a big company and you've

576
00:26:38,790 --> 00:26:40,950
got lots and lots of colleagues and associates.

577
00:26:41,100 --> 00:26:43,500
Julie Smith:
So I was doing the math, John, and I'm not really good at

578
00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:45,030
math, so no, she's not.

579
00:26:45,030 --> 00:26:46,980
If I did it incorrectly, please correct me.

580
00:26:46,980 --> 00:26:50,370
But did you hire your first employee to be a part of your

581
00:26:50,370 --> 00:26:52,950
team before you left corporate America?

582
00:26:53,460 --> 00:26:54,060
Jon Appino:
Yes.

583
00:26:54,810 --> 00:26:57,990
Julie Smith:
That's awesome. And so what ultimately led you to make that

584
00:26:57,990 --> 00:27:00,480
decision that you decided you needed to delegate and get

585
00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:03,510
that off of your plate in order to continue to juggle both

586
00:27:03,510 --> 00:27:04,410
those roles?

587
00:27:06,910 --> 00:27:11,620
Speaker3:
The business was strong and my time was was kind of capped.

588
00:27:11,620 --> 00:27:14,500
And I realized that it has to get bigger than just me

589
00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:17,800
because I didn't even if I if I left corporate, I wanted

590
00:27:17,800 --> 00:27:18,880
more of a flexible schedule.

591
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,460
I didn't want to leave. I didn't want to go from getting up

592
00:27:21,460 --> 00:27:24,340
at three in the morning to get to the gym, to get both jobs

593
00:27:24,340 --> 00:27:27,130
done all day long, and then working three nights, four

594
00:27:27,130 --> 00:27:28,240
nights a week sometimes.

595
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,580
I worked every Sunday night for eight or nine years.

596
00:27:30,580 --> 00:27:33,820
I worked from, I think 4:00 till 10:00 every single Sunday

597
00:27:33,820 --> 00:27:37,060
night for four, seven, eight years maybe.

598
00:27:37,660 --> 00:27:38,680
And I didn't want to do that.

599
00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,050
I wanted to be able to go to Italy with my kids.

600
00:27:41,050 --> 00:27:42,670
That was one of the dreams my wife and I had.

601
00:27:42,670 --> 00:27:46,750
We wanted to spend a whole summer in Italy and I knew that

602
00:27:46,750 --> 00:27:52,480
I could do that if I was also doing 100% of the production.

603
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,700
And I knew that there was also a lot more people out there

604
00:27:54,700 --> 00:27:56,620
that we needed to help. Because if you looked at the

605
00:27:56,620 --> 00:27:59,770
available market for our products and you look at how many

606
00:27:59,770 --> 00:28:03,430
we were serving, we were super busy, but but still not

607
00:28:03,430 --> 00:28:05,500
being able to serve everybody that needs it.

608
00:28:05,500 --> 00:28:08,110
And so I kind of felt an obligation to bring people on and

609
00:28:08,110 --> 00:28:09,850
do a little bit of scaling, if you will.

610
00:28:09,850 --> 00:28:12,940
And I felt that that was the best time was then when I had

611
00:28:12,940 --> 00:28:16,570
more of a financial backing with corporate, and I could

612
00:28:16,570 --> 00:28:18,790
kind of take the money and invest because I didn't need it

613
00:28:18,790 --> 00:28:22,390
to pay bills. And so I felt like that was the right time

614
00:28:22,390 --> 00:28:25,660
versus when I might feel like my future self would tell me.

615
00:28:25,660 --> 00:28:28,210
I'm a little more tight with finances because I don't have

616
00:28:28,210 --> 00:28:30,130
the corporate money coming in every single month.

617
00:28:30,910 --> 00:28:34,780
Glenn Harper:
Did you have a at this point again, even though you've been

618
00:28:34,780 --> 00:28:37,420
doing this for seven years, how long has this been going on

619
00:28:37,420 --> 00:28:38,950
now? Since 12.

620
00:28:40,080 --> 00:28:42,240
Jon Appino:
Contract. Yeah, 12.

621
00:28:42,240 --> 00:28:43,470
Glenn Harper:
Years. Okay. So.

622
00:28:43,470 --> 00:28:45,120
But it's only in the last.

623
00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:47,940
You've been on your own with no corporate job for like the

624
00:28:47,940 --> 00:28:49,170
last four then.

625
00:28:50,060 --> 00:28:50,430
Jon Appino:
Yes.

626
00:28:50,450 --> 00:28:54,230
Glenn Harper:
Okay. So do you have any regrets or son of a moments that

627
00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:57,200
you wish you could do it over again, that you would have

628
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:00,410
changed to get you where you are quicker?

629
00:29:00,410 --> 00:29:04,610
Or are you perfectly content with how the pace that you

630
00:29:04,610 --> 00:29:07,580
have developed your company and your career path and your

631
00:29:07,580 --> 00:29:09,500
entrepreneurial journey? Are you are you good with that?

632
00:29:09,500 --> 00:29:11,990
Or you're like, Oh man, if I'd just known this person or

633
00:29:11,990 --> 00:29:15,650
that process or engage this person particular advisor, I

634
00:29:15,650 --> 00:29:16,700
could have got there quicker.

635
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:19,670
Is there any advice for people listening that, you know,

636
00:29:19,670 --> 00:29:22,100
listen, if you could just see that one thing like, oh, pay

637
00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:24,050
attention to that blinking light.

638
00:29:24,860 --> 00:29:28,490
Jon Appino:
Yeah. I think, you know, maybe the one thing that I would

639
00:29:28,490 --> 00:29:32,630
change was, is the the way that you that you prioritize

640
00:29:32,630 --> 00:29:35,570
initiatives. So I think like a lot of entrepreneurs, you

641
00:29:35,570 --> 00:29:39,770
have a laundry list of ideas for the company.

642
00:29:39,770 --> 00:29:42,770
You know, I've got I want to get this done and this done

643
00:29:42,770 --> 00:29:46,100
and add this and, you know, and do this to the website or

644
00:29:46,100 --> 00:29:47,960
this to the blog or this to the YouTube.

645
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:51,110
I mean, there's there's I mean, I have a list of, I think

646
00:29:51,110 --> 00:29:55,550
still 32 ideas on ways that we can make the company better

647
00:29:55,550 --> 00:29:59,330
or new products or help more people or, you know, add

648
00:29:59,330 --> 00:30:00,710
something on or fill in the blank.

649
00:30:00,710 --> 00:30:04,760
And, you know, as and I've slowly kind of ticked things off

650
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,750
that list, again, knowing that I'm not the type of person

651
00:30:08,750 --> 00:30:13,130
to just jump in and hire a chief operating officer to start

652
00:30:13,130 --> 00:30:14,720
knocking stuff off that list.

653
00:30:15,410 --> 00:30:19,340
But I think I would have maybe started prioritizing that

654
00:30:19,340 --> 00:30:22,580
list maybe a little bit different years ago.

655
00:30:22,580 --> 00:30:25,250
But I don't know that I regret anything as far as timelines

656
00:30:25,250 --> 00:30:29,060
go, you know, the way that the corporate job worked out and

657
00:30:29,060 --> 00:30:32,030
when I hired my first person and how the company started

658
00:30:32,030 --> 00:30:35,960
and how things kind of fell in place, I think that's that

659
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:40,100
as as as as purposeful, I think as it was when my wife and

660
00:30:40,100 --> 00:30:42,290
I made those decisions, I think they were all the right

661
00:30:42,290 --> 00:30:46,370
ones, you know, because now at 43 with with a nine year old

662
00:30:46,370 --> 00:30:49,730
and a six, seven year old child, we feel like we're in very

663
00:30:49,730 --> 00:30:50,900
good financial footing.

664
00:30:50,900 --> 00:30:54,920
And I think because we we took our time and did it slow

665
00:30:55,070 --> 00:30:59,480
again for me, I know I've got friends who quit a store

666
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,460
director job at at Target.

667
00:31:01,460 --> 00:31:03,800
You know, we thought our friend was going to be the next

668
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,650
CEO of Target Corporation 15 years ago.

669
00:31:06,650 --> 00:31:10,790
And he was running a store by himself with a $300 budget

670
00:31:10,790 --> 00:31:13,250
and 400 employees at the age of 26.

671
00:31:13,250 --> 00:31:16,250
And he quit that job, cashes out his 401.

672
00:31:16,250 --> 00:31:18,970
K and starts a company, you know.

673
00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:24,590
And so it's those things that you you I envy people who

674
00:31:24,590 --> 00:31:26,750
think like that. Unfortunately, it's just not me.

675
00:31:26,750 --> 00:31:29,840
So I think the pace that I did it was appropriate for my

676
00:31:29,840 --> 00:31:32,060
particular risk tolerance and thresholds.

677
00:31:32,060 --> 00:31:36,380
Glenn Harper:
Yeah, I think your, your, your perseverance, your you didn't

678
00:31:36,380 --> 00:31:37,490
want to rush into it.

679
00:31:37,490 --> 00:31:40,580
You had very much purpose doing what you needed to do.

680
00:31:40,580 --> 00:31:42,380
I like that again.

681
00:31:42,380 --> 00:31:45,320
A lot of entrepreneurs wanted all you know, yesterday.

682
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,250
It's hard to have somebody that, you know is like, you

683
00:31:49,250 --> 00:31:51,440
know, I'm not in any hurry. I want to do it right and do

684
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:52,700
it. Do it all I can.

685
00:31:53,240 --> 00:31:57,110
Jon Appino:
Yeah. And again, I've, I've said many times you, I think my,

686
00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,740
the, the, the tolerance that I have for risk has, has

687
00:32:00,740 --> 00:32:03,560
impeded me in many ways from my investing strategy with

688
00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:06,350
excess funds to the way that I've run the company.

689
00:32:06,490 --> 00:32:08,790
You know, and I see what some of my friends have done and,

690
00:32:08,870 --> 00:32:11,690
and I'm like, if I had their risk tolerance, my company

691
00:32:11,690 --> 00:32:13,910
might be three times as big or four times as big.

692
00:32:14,150 --> 00:32:16,550
I may have I may have three times or four times a

693
00:32:16,550 --> 00:32:17,960
portfolio. I don't know.

694
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:19,400
Or maybe I would have crashed and burned.

695
00:32:19,670 --> 00:32:22,310
But again, I, I can't force that.

696
00:32:22,610 --> 00:32:25,640
I mean, I can't force that on, on, on, on myself.

697
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:26,750
And I don't want to try.

698
00:32:26,750 --> 00:32:27,980
I wouldn't sleep at night.

699
00:32:27,980 --> 00:32:31,010
And so for my individual risk tolerance, I think the pace

700
00:32:31,010 --> 00:32:34,010
that I took was very was very reasonable, knowing that my

701
00:32:34,010 --> 00:32:36,650
mother still thought I was crazy when she said, you're

702
00:32:36,650 --> 00:32:39,500
going to quit your job, your job, you have insurance and

703
00:32:39,500 --> 00:32:41,240
they give you all these wonderful things.

704
00:32:41,240 --> 00:32:43,430
How would you ever quit a job?

705
00:32:43,580 --> 00:32:45,920
You know, how are your kids going to have health insurance?

706
00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,580
You know, so, you know, so for me in my family tree, if you

707
00:32:49,580 --> 00:32:54,080
will, jumping out of the corporate plane, if you will, and

708
00:32:54,110 --> 00:32:56,420
and starting something on your own is even though it was

709
00:32:56,420 --> 00:32:59,930
well established, is not the typical in my gene pool.

710
00:32:59,930 --> 00:33:02,750
Glenn Harper:
You know, that's a good note on that is that, you know,

711
00:33:02,750 --> 00:33:05,640
entrepreneurs, it's, you know, bigger isn't better, better

712
00:33:05,660 --> 00:33:08,420
is better. And you don't have to be big to be great.

713
00:33:08,420 --> 00:33:10,820
You don't have to be big to achieve whatever.

714
00:33:10,820 --> 00:33:13,520
It's your own individual thing that you really, really want

715
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,790
to do. And if you had the right pace to do that, that

716
00:33:16,790 --> 00:33:19,430
that's it's that's admirable to do it.

717
00:33:19,460 --> 00:33:20,480
Do it that way.

718
00:33:20,690 --> 00:33:25,700
Did you have any you don't have a desire to you know, when

719
00:33:25,700 --> 00:33:28,040
you're an entrepreneur, you have this everybody has this

720
00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:30,500
special thing that their good their superpower that just

721
00:33:30,500 --> 00:33:33,230
makes them set aside in their industry or who they are,

722
00:33:33,230 --> 00:33:34,850
just their shtick that they have.

723
00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,670
You know, do you have you really evaluated what your

724
00:33:37,670 --> 00:33:38,900
superpower is?

725
00:33:40,930 --> 00:33:42,590
Jon Appino:
I have. No know.

726
00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:46,840
I mean, I'm I'm a natural salesman, you know?

727
00:33:47,140 --> 00:33:50,860
And so I don't know if that's a superpower or if I'm just a

728
00:33:50,860 --> 00:33:55,480
salesman. I love talking with people and I'm a nice guy,

729
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:58,540
you know? So I've never I've never tried to take advantage

730
00:33:58,540 --> 00:34:01,060
of somebody or try to sell somebody something that they

731
00:34:01,060 --> 00:34:04,870
don't need for for for a profit.

732
00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,140
Know, we've always focused on we're we're a service

733
00:34:08,140 --> 00:34:09,490
company, so we want to serve you.

734
00:34:09,490 --> 00:34:13,480
And if there's I mean, I said from the beginning, I started

735
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,670
the company not to make money, but to help people.

736
00:34:15,670 --> 00:34:18,070
And I figured if we helped enough people, we'd have plenty

737
00:34:18,070 --> 00:34:21,970
of money. And so I think I don't know that I'm a

738
00:34:21,970 --> 00:34:24,340
superpower, but I think I'm a natural sales person.

739
00:34:24,340 --> 00:34:26,620
And at the same time, I'm not selling something for money.

740
00:34:26,620 --> 00:34:28,630
I'm just selling information and advice.

741
00:34:28,630 --> 00:34:32,200
And and so I don't know if you want to call that a sales or

742
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,260
a superpower, but I think just being a nice guy sometimes

743
00:34:35,260 --> 00:34:36,520
is is a wonderful thing.

744
00:34:36,520 --> 00:34:39,160
And maybe it's the Brooking, South Dakota roots that stick

745
00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:41,200
out. And I think it comes through and I think I think

746
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,860
people appreciate and notice that and and they like working

747
00:34:44,860 --> 00:34:46,060
with you as a as a result.

748
00:34:46,060 --> 00:34:49,450
Glenn Harper:
How long ago did you get rid of all your flashy sales coats

749
00:34:49,610 --> 00:34:50,710
and sport jackets?

750
00:34:50,710 --> 00:34:52,870
I mean, you got to break all these stereotypes.

751
00:34:53,410 --> 00:34:54,640
Jon Appino:
Yeah, it was nice.

752
00:34:54,640 --> 00:34:59,170
I had really, really nice, you know, business suits and I

753
00:34:59,170 --> 00:35:02,340
kept warm in case I need to go to a wedding ever.

754
00:35:02,740 --> 00:35:03,820
And I want to wear a suit.

755
00:35:03,820 --> 00:35:06,100
Right. And, and that's it.

756
00:35:06,100 --> 00:35:07,780
So it was.

757
00:35:08,890 --> 00:35:11,710
Yeah, it was. I got I got rid of them before I even left

758
00:35:11,710 --> 00:35:14,410
corporate because the dress code has changed from business

759
00:35:14,530 --> 00:35:17,830
every day to wear some slacks and a collared shirt if you

760
00:35:17,830 --> 00:35:18,280
want to.

761
00:35:18,670 --> 00:35:22,150
Glenn Harper:
Do you have did you have like when you're doing this,

762
00:35:22,180 --> 00:35:26,650
entrepreneurs usually have this this wall that they hit or

763
00:35:26,650 --> 00:35:30,820
this insurmountable climbing, you know, steep ascent that

764
00:35:30,820 --> 00:35:33,010
they just can't get over. There's this this fear that they

765
00:35:33,010 --> 00:35:34,270
have, like, oh, my God.

766
00:35:34,270 --> 00:35:36,150
I just I just can't break through that.

767
00:35:36,160 --> 00:35:40,060
Did you have any of that fear for you that prevented you

768
00:35:40,060 --> 00:35:41,440
from doing what you wanted to do?

769
00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:43,450
Or were you very it sounds like you were very methodical

770
00:35:43,450 --> 00:35:45,850
and just whittling that down so it wasn't a big deal.

771
00:35:45,850 --> 00:35:48,940
But was there this big thing that like, my God, everybody's

772
00:35:48,940 --> 00:35:51,220
against me, how do I succeed?

773
00:35:51,220 --> 00:35:52,420
Nobody's going to respect me.

774
00:35:52,420 --> 00:35:54,280
I mean, what was that your biggest fear that you had to

775
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:55,060
overcome?

776
00:35:56,450 --> 00:36:00,730
Jon Appino:
And this is going to sound silly, but it's a totally honest

777
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:03,480
answer. It was health care.

778
00:36:03,490 --> 00:36:06,670
You know, I've got two young kids and we've got friends who

779
00:36:06,670 --> 00:36:09,170
have gotten gotten cancer and gotten sick.

780
00:36:09,190 --> 00:36:10,980
I've got a dad that has coronary disease.

781
00:36:10,990 --> 00:36:13,020
I've seen people break bones.

782
00:36:13,030 --> 00:36:16,300
I know how much health care costs in America.

783
00:36:16,300 --> 00:36:20,350
And so one of it was one of the things was, what are we

784
00:36:20,350 --> 00:36:21,370
going to do for insurance?

785
00:36:21,700 --> 00:36:27,550
And do you just pay, you know, 30,000 or 35,000 a year for

786
00:36:27,550 --> 00:36:28,690
a private plan?

787
00:36:28,830 --> 00:36:31,400
You know, do you jump into a health scare?

788
00:36:31,420 --> 00:36:35,620
Do you you know, do you jump into the to the Affordable

789
00:36:35,620 --> 00:36:37,090
Care Act and the marketplace?

790
00:36:37,090 --> 00:36:42,550
Do you I mean, and it was it sounds so silly, you know, and

791
00:36:42,820 --> 00:36:45,370
and I had a lot of my friends who were even entrepreneurs

792
00:36:45,370 --> 00:36:48,100
are like like, please tell me you're not keeping your

793
00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:50,590
corporate job because of health insurance.

794
00:36:50,590 --> 00:36:55,020
You know, and it was a hang up for both my wife and I.

795
00:36:55,030 --> 00:37:01,870
And and so so that was it, you know, and we kind of worked

796
00:37:01,870 --> 00:37:04,420
through it. You know, we we did have both both children

797
00:37:04,420 --> 00:37:05,620
while we were in corporate.

798
00:37:05,620 --> 00:37:09,220
So, you know, $100 for the birth of a child when my sister

799
00:37:09,220 --> 00:37:12,610
was paying 3500, I think, for hers with her insurance.

800
00:37:13,060 --> 00:37:16,740
And she works at a hospital, you know, so know.

801
00:37:16,870 --> 00:37:19,690
But that was a big hang up for us and it was a lot of work

802
00:37:19,690 --> 00:37:22,300
to kind of navigate that process to make both my wife and

803
00:37:22,300 --> 00:37:25,270
me feel comfortable in the path that we were choosing for

804
00:37:25,270 --> 00:37:28,150
our family. As far as making sure that that health care

805
00:37:28,150 --> 00:37:30,160
didn't bankrupt, bankrupt us in the future.

806
00:37:30,580 --> 00:37:33,760
Glenn Harper:
That managing risk gets the hardest part of an entrepreneur,

807
00:37:33,790 --> 00:37:36,940
because sometimes you have to go all in and risk it all,

808
00:37:36,940 --> 00:37:38,320
and sometimes you don't have to.

809
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,050
You just got to be very purposeful with the way you do it.

810
00:37:42,340 --> 00:37:45,910
You know, a lot of entrepreneurs like to we and we like to

811
00:37:45,910 --> 00:37:48,880
call it you're either doing business is when you're doing

812
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:52,090
your doing your task your thing that you do and and you do

813
00:37:52,090 --> 00:37:55,420
that very well and you have a small team around you, but

814
00:37:55,420 --> 00:37:58,180
you're basically doing all the things that are kind of

815
00:37:58,420 --> 00:38:01,450
relevant. And then at some point an entrepreneur likes

816
00:38:01,450 --> 00:38:03,040
doing that and there's nothing wrong with that.

817
00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,890
It's a great business model and sometimes I like to flip

818
00:38:05,890 --> 00:38:07,930
the switch where they actually building a business where

819
00:38:07,930 --> 00:38:10,810
they're going to bring in and just methodically hire people

820
00:38:10,810 --> 00:38:13,720
and all those categories to kind of just run it.

821
00:38:13,720 --> 00:38:15,970
And you, the entrepreneur, just kind of like being the

822
00:38:15,970 --> 00:38:17,980
business person where you're really not day to day

823
00:38:17,980 --> 00:38:19,960
operations. You want the big picture.

824
00:38:20,140 --> 00:38:22,660
Do you have an affinity to which side of that aisle you

825
00:38:22,660 --> 00:38:24,400
want to be at? Are you in the middle of there right now

826
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:27,250
transitioning or where you at in that or do you even care?

827
00:38:28,230 --> 00:38:30,540
Jon Appino:
You know. No, I think about all the time.

828
00:38:30,540 --> 00:38:33,330
I've always said, you know, if you're working if you're

829
00:38:33,330 --> 00:38:35,820
working in the business, you can't work on the business.

830
00:38:35,820 --> 00:38:39,030
You know? And so I spent a lot of time working in the

831
00:38:39,030 --> 00:38:42,120
business, and I couldn't focus on working on it because I

832
00:38:42,120 --> 00:38:46,440
was so busy just producing, write just daily operational

833
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:48,720
things that somebody that the company does.

834
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:52,680
And so, yeah, as I've hired people, I've slowly kind of

835
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,480
shifted away from having other people do that.

836
00:38:55,500 --> 00:38:57,900
I do love talking with physicians.

837
00:38:57,900 --> 00:39:00,090
You know, I love having those kind of calls.

838
00:39:00,090 --> 00:39:04,290
I love I love when you when you interact with somebody and

839
00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:06,360
and a lot of physicians, they can be arrogant.

840
00:39:06,360 --> 00:39:09,540
So the fact that they're reaching out to us to ask for help

841
00:39:09,810 --> 00:39:12,090
because they're used to everyone goes to them.

842
00:39:12,090 --> 00:39:14,280
Right. You have all the information.

843
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,280
I'm coming to you to pay you to give me information.

844
00:39:17,670 --> 00:39:21,150
And so to have that role reversed when they're looking at

845
00:39:21,150 --> 00:39:23,210
you and they're so appreciative.

846
00:39:23,220 --> 00:39:25,620
Thank you so much for this.

847
00:39:25,620 --> 00:39:26,940
You've helped my family.

848
00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:28,530
You know, we'll get an email.

849
00:39:28,530 --> 00:39:31,980
You know, I got a we have a we helped the physician that

850
00:39:31,980 --> 00:39:36,120
haven't had a raise in four years get a $70,000 a year

851
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:38,880
raise and an extra week of vacation every year.

852
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:43,350
So over the next three years, $210,000 worth of extra

853
00:39:43,350 --> 00:39:47,220
income for his family and three extra weeks of vacation

854
00:39:47,220 --> 00:39:50,220
over those three years to enjoy time with his kids with no

855
00:39:50,220 --> 00:39:53,550
extra production that he had to do, no extra hours he had

856
00:39:53,550 --> 00:39:56,790
to put in because of the way that we rolled it out to his

857
00:39:56,790 --> 00:40:00,360
employer. And so you get those messages from people and it

858
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:01,770
brings you joy, number one.

859
00:40:01,770 --> 00:40:03,930
But you see how it impacts their family, number two.

860
00:40:03,930 --> 00:40:05,940
And that's one of those things where I never want to get

861
00:40:05,940 --> 00:40:08,130
away from that, even though I've got great people that can

862
00:40:08,130 --> 00:40:11,280
do that now. I really enjoy those emails.

863
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,070
I really enjoy that feedback from the clients, and so I

864
00:40:14,070 --> 00:40:15,090
don't want to get away from that.

865
00:40:15,090 --> 00:40:17,070
But yeah, we've got lots of really important things that

866
00:40:17,070 --> 00:40:19,680
we're trying to do to the business, which is why I'm

867
00:40:19,680 --> 00:40:23,250
spending a lot of time now with, with, with, with people

868
00:40:23,250 --> 00:40:26,820
that are helping build email funnels and build a YouTube

869
00:40:26,820 --> 00:40:30,780
channel and, you know, and set up podcast interviews with,

870
00:40:30,980 --> 00:40:33,980
with physicians that have their own podcasts and, you know,

871
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,680
and add additional products and make our system more

872
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,770
streamlined and reach more people through social media.

873
00:40:41,010 --> 00:40:43,770
I do want to spend a lot of time doing that in the future

874
00:40:43,770 --> 00:40:46,770
because I know that the company just has so much more that

875
00:40:46,770 --> 00:40:50,550
it can do, not from a moneymaking perspective, even though

876
00:40:50,550 --> 00:40:52,770
I know that will come. But there's just so many more people

877
00:40:52,770 --> 00:40:57,600
that we can help that I feel almost an obligation to the

878
00:40:57,600 --> 00:40:59,990
physicians that we don't get to talk to every year that to

879
00:41:00,060 --> 00:41:02,880
to to show them that we're here so they can find us and we

880
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:04,110
can provide some advice to them.

881
00:41:04,110 --> 00:41:06,300
Julie Smith:
So a theme I've kind of heard throughout, but you haven't

882
00:41:06,300 --> 00:41:07,950
really solidified it is.

883
00:41:07,950 --> 00:41:10,800
I think relationships have been the key to where you are

884
00:41:10,800 --> 00:41:14,430
today. No matter if it's been in your business and

885
00:41:14,430 --> 00:41:17,550
corporate, in and around that area, it seems like you've

886
00:41:17,550 --> 00:41:21,030
really been able to solidify, grow all the relationships

887
00:41:21,030 --> 00:41:23,070
that you've had to in order to get to where you are.

888
00:41:23,700 --> 00:41:25,920
Jon Appino:
Mm hmm. Yeah, I would agree.

889
00:41:26,340 --> 00:41:29,310
Glenn Harper:
It's a there's a trick question that we did about 10 minutes

890
00:41:29,310 --> 00:41:32,280
ago that you said you only had a list with 32 things on it.

891
00:41:32,280 --> 00:41:34,380
And that is a blatant lie.

892
00:41:34,380 --> 00:41:35,910
You know it and I know it.

893
00:41:36,060 --> 00:41:40,350
That list, if I'm not mistaken, is infinity.

894
00:41:40,350 --> 00:41:43,950
And the hard part as an entrepreneur is staying on point

895
00:41:43,950 --> 00:41:47,670
and methodically like you have done very successfully.

896
00:41:47,670 --> 00:41:50,370
And I suspect you're going to continue to do that is to

897
00:41:50,580 --> 00:41:53,370
your your head's got all this stuff in it because it is

898
00:41:53,370 --> 00:41:56,970
really you see the market, you just know there's unbridled

899
00:41:56,970 --> 00:42:00,390
optimism and opportunity everywhere and trying to just do

900
00:42:00,390 --> 00:42:02,010
one thing at a time and work on it.

901
00:42:02,010 --> 00:42:04,620
And I guess that dovetails back to the other question I had

902
00:42:04,620 --> 00:42:08,220
earlier is now that you kind of done a process to do this,

903
00:42:08,220 --> 00:42:11,790
one thing that you're doing on the next, things that are

904
00:42:11,790 --> 00:42:14,280
like the big picture items is that's something that you're

905
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:18,510
going to delegate, empower others to do that, to help get

906
00:42:18,510 --> 00:42:21,150
those up to speed quicker, or are you going to still stay

907
00:42:21,150 --> 00:42:22,410
on the same methodical step?

908
00:42:22,410 --> 00:42:24,000
Have you figured that part out yet?

909
00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:25,470
Jon Appino:
Yeah, absolutely.

910
00:42:25,890 --> 00:42:30,510
Yeah. So I work with a like a small business.

911
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:34,260
I want to have big enough to have like a like a a chief

912
00:42:34,260 --> 00:42:37,560
operating officer, if you will, that has everybody below

913
00:42:37,560 --> 00:42:41,100
them and a marketing division and a and a tech team and

914
00:42:41,100 --> 00:42:44,280
everything else. So there's a small team that I work with

915
00:42:44,280 --> 00:42:47,010
that kind of has all those to work part time here and there

916
00:42:47,010 --> 00:42:50,520
on projects. And as we bring them more projects that we

917
00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,760
delegate more things to them, that's becoming a very

918
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:55,380
valuable relationship.

919
00:42:55,860 --> 00:42:59,010
But at the same time, you know, I do I enjoy working on

920
00:42:59,010 --> 00:43:02,460
these things. And so now the the challenge comes to how do

921
00:43:02,460 --> 00:43:04,040
I trade my time, you know?

922
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:06,300
So there are so many things I want to do.

923
00:43:06,300 --> 00:43:10,560
I've got young kids and I refuse to be one of those parents

924
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,330
who say, Oh, they grew up too fast.

925
00:43:12,330 --> 00:43:14,820
And now all of a sudden, I mean, my kids are nine and

926
00:43:14,820 --> 00:43:18,720
seven. And I'd like to I'd like to think that I've got nine

927
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:21,630
more years with my son before he takes off and goes to get

928
00:43:21,630 --> 00:43:24,510
a job or goes to university or or starts a business.

929
00:43:24,990 --> 00:43:27,570
But I realize that that 17 year old.

930
00:43:27,900 --> 00:43:29,970
Sons are not going to want to hang out with me all summer

931
00:43:29,970 --> 00:43:31,350
long. They're going to want to go hang out with their

932
00:43:31,350 --> 00:43:35,100
friends. And so I maybe have a solid few years that, you

933
00:43:35,100 --> 00:43:38,160
know, that he wants to hang out with me and he wants to go

934
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,040
on trips with me and and I get to see him quite a bit

935
00:43:41,040 --> 00:43:42,960
before he's out running around with his friends, driving

936
00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:45,300
cars or walking around or whatever.

937
00:43:45,300 --> 00:43:51,030
So, so I'm trying to kind of balance now my, the, the level

938
00:43:51,030 --> 00:43:52,500
of work that I want to do.

939
00:43:53,580 --> 00:43:56,340
At the same time, the obligation that I feel to the company

940
00:43:56,340 --> 00:43:59,280
and the people who I get to work with to grow it and add

941
00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:01,800
products and that revenue and everything else.

942
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:03,960
So it's it's that internal conflict.

943
00:44:03,960 --> 00:44:06,060
You know, I wish that I had 40 hour days.

944
00:44:06,540 --> 00:44:07,950
Unfortunately, I don't.

945
00:44:07,950 --> 00:44:11,400
And so so I'll kind of have to make do with balancing

946
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:12,330
everything out in the interim.

947
00:44:12,330 --> 00:44:15,180
Glenn Harper:
I feel like if you went back to about ten years ago when you

948
00:44:15,180 --> 00:44:18,000
were working the 12000 hours a week at three in the

949
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:19,950
morning, that's when it's going to get done.

950
00:44:19,950 --> 00:44:23,160
But no, you've got a little soft and that's okay, but

951
00:44:23,160 --> 00:44:25,140
you're figuring it out as you go.

952
00:44:25,140 --> 00:44:25,760
But no.

953
00:44:27,050 --> 00:44:30,240
Jon Appino:
I don't know that that's that may be an accurate statement.

954
00:44:30,630 --> 00:44:33,000
As far as as far as a little bit soft.

955
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:34,140
I wouldn't disagree with that.

956
00:44:34,140 --> 00:44:35,370
Glenn Harper:
I'm kidding, of course.

957
00:44:35,370 --> 00:44:37,740
Well, is there a would you like to give a little plug for

958
00:44:37,740 --> 00:44:40,020
your company so we can put this on the podcast so people

959
00:44:40,020 --> 00:44:41,250
can find you if they need to?

960
00:44:41,610 --> 00:44:45,180
Jon Appino:
Yeah. I mean, contract diagnostics, you know, you type it

961
00:44:45,180 --> 00:44:47,790
into the Google machine and it pops up.

962
00:44:47,790 --> 00:44:50,550
So it's contract diagnostics dot com.

963
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,960
And again, it's so easy what we do, we help physicians

964
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:57,000
understand their contracts and their compensation

965
00:44:57,000 --> 00:45:01,350
structures. So if any physicians listen, you know, they can

966
00:45:01,350 --> 00:45:03,360
call us. We have a free 15 minute consult.

967
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,210
They can call us up and or they can book a consult and we

968
00:45:06,210 --> 00:45:07,740
can just talk with them for 15 minutes.

969
00:45:07,740 --> 00:45:10,530
No charge. We have a couple of products from a compensation

970
00:45:10,530 --> 00:45:13,230
analysis to a contract review on our website.

971
00:45:13,950 --> 00:45:18,090
And if somebody knows a physician, they can send them over

972
00:45:18,090 --> 00:45:20,490
to the site. We have free webinars and all kinds of free

973
00:45:20,490 --> 00:45:22,200
stuff, free resources all over the site.

974
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,320
So it's one of those things that if they want to find us,

975
00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,440
they can within a pretty good job of of putting ourselves

976
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:29,220
out there on the line.

977
00:45:29,730 --> 00:45:33,030
Glenn Harper:
Is it fair to say that you've got to kick butt stereo system

978
00:45:33,030 --> 00:45:35,310
in your car because you're, you know, a guy?

979
00:45:36,810 --> 00:45:41,760
Jon Appino:
I don't I have a I love I have a I've kind of over that now,

980
00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,980
but I still am into customizing vehicles.

981
00:45:43,980 --> 00:45:47,430
I have a Toyota forerunner that is an overland vehicle.

982
00:45:47,430 --> 00:45:51,300
So it's got a tent and it's got all custom wheels and lift

983
00:45:51,300 --> 00:45:54,540
kits and kitchens in the back and all that kind of stuff.

984
00:45:54,540 --> 00:45:58,100
And I love getting up into the mountains and relaxing and

985
00:45:58,620 --> 00:46:02,790
and kind of getting away from things from time to time.

986
00:46:02,790 --> 00:46:07,080
But it definitely has a factory stereo, which for me is

987
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:07,350
just.

988
00:46:07,350 --> 00:46:08,520
Glenn Harper:
Fine, more than adequate.

989
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,860
But boy, back in the day you had to get the cool stuff.

990
00:46:12,600 --> 00:46:13,710
Jon Appino:
Back in the day. Absolutely.

991
00:46:13,710 --> 00:46:15,270
Glenn Harper:
What was the brand back in the day?

992
00:46:15,270 --> 00:46:16,860
That was the one that they couldn't get just out of

993
00:46:16,860 --> 00:46:19,230
curiosity. Kicker.

994
00:46:19,230 --> 00:46:20,280
Kicker, huh?

995
00:46:20,670 --> 00:46:23,490
Jon Appino:
Yeah. There were subwoofers and we wanted kicker.

996
00:46:23,490 --> 00:46:25,860
And I think Rockford Fosgate was another one.

997
00:46:25,860 --> 00:46:30,300
And we want to Kenwood as far as like Dacs everything, the

998
00:46:30,300 --> 00:46:33,420
whole market has changed so much because with with with new

999
00:46:33,420 --> 00:46:36,150
cars and touch screens and apple CarPlay, I mean,

1000
00:46:36,150 --> 00:46:40,020
everything is different. Oh, different now as far as adding

1001
00:46:40,020 --> 00:46:43,620
secondary systems and everything else, I, I know the

1002
00:46:43,620 --> 00:46:48,780
market's changed quite a bit, but, but the stereo company

1003
00:46:48,780 --> 00:46:49,950
is still very successful.

1004
00:46:49,950 --> 00:46:53,370
They put stuff in boats and campers, they still do cars,

1005
00:46:53,370 --> 00:46:56,400
they do old retro cars, they do remote starts and older

1006
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,400
vehicles. And it's a it's a pretty cool it's a pretty cool

1007
00:46:59,400 --> 00:47:00,840
company back and bringing still.

1008
00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:03,210
Glenn Harper:
That's fantastic. Well, John, I really appreciate you taking

1009
00:47:03,210 --> 00:47:07,080
the time today to come on and hopefully this will help some

1010
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,750
entrepreneurs out there realize that there's more than one

1011
00:47:09,750 --> 00:47:12,330
way to get to through your journey to get your

1012
00:47:12,330 --> 00:47:13,440
entrepreneurial success.

1013
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:15,300
This is Glen Harper, Julie Smith.

1014
00:47:15,300 --> 00:47:16,470
Thanks for joining us, everybody.