Hey. Hey. And welcome to this week's episode of On Your Terms.
I'm so excited to talk sales calls today because I was actually kind of surprised once I got into this episode, I started, like, geeking out and remembering what sales calls we're like for me, and a lot of
stuff came up.
So, originally, when I had planned this episode, I was just going to teach you, like, three things to avoid, and that was it.
But instead, it really morphed into an episode where I teach you three things to avoid on sales calls for legal reasons, but also your just mental health and sanity.
But I also go into actually how I ran sales calls and how I used to get a lot of sales and, what we call in the biz, conversions.
They were highly converting sales calls.
They were very successful.
And I do think that it's because over time I worked through the system and kind of came up with, not only the pre-qualifying and then the onboarding to the sales call, but then actually how the sales call
itself ran.
And so, in the end of this episode, I actually share with you all the questions, the way I used to structure it, all the questions I used to ask them.
And then, I'm giving you all three of the email templates that I used to use to kind of onboard people to my sales call.
In addition to the video training that I shot for you on how to implement these and how to use them to really get on the phone with highly qualified targeted leads, so you're not wasting your
time with boundary barging people, but also just not wasting your time, period, in your business because your time is very precious both in your business and elsewhere.
And so, it's important to me, you know, that we're making the best use of this.
So, time is a very highly non-renewable resource to you, and it's very serious to me that you're using it the best way you possibly can in your business.
So, I'm really excited to dive into it.
In this week's episode, we're talking about whether you can give advice and how you navigate the advice, information education line on sales calls, about taking payments
on sales calls, and even how to navigate those people who get on to a sales call.
And try to take the lead, and how you can get more comfortable with really stepping into your power as a CEO, as the founder of your business, who's there to lead the
conversation and really make an empowered sale if it's right for the both of you.
So, I'm very excited to get into this episode.
Just a little behind the scenes update.
I know that you'll be listening to this as the holidays are approaching.
So, for most of November and December, we're calling it Hugo season here in the business, but I'm taking pretty cozy time.
I mean, I'm working a ton, I'll admit, but it's all more behind the scenes stuff.
And so, I pulled the plug on any other, you know, live events that I had this year, and promos outside of people hiring me to come in and speak to their groups and do trainings, and schools, and
these kinds of things.
But, otherwise, I'm not doing any sorts of live webinars or anything like that.
You can always watch my free legal training, Five Steps to Legally Protect and Grow your Online Business down in the comments or in the description.
But I am not doing some of that outward facing stuff.
And so, the idea is that I'm kind of catching up on some super massive growth over the last-year-and-a-half.
It's been kind of insane and it's, honestly, just felt like I was keeping up for a lot of the last-year-and-a-half plus.
So, it's a lot of that and more team building.
So, I kind of a year ago had hardly anybody working for me, if anyone at all, to having, like, a full fledged team of people and that's only growing.
And from what I can see and what I'm planning for, it's only going up from here.
So, it's pretty wild, I'll admit, but it's been a really, really fun ride.
And I'm just extremely grateful for you being here and for you listening and sending kind messages and emails and all of the things.
I love hearing from you.
I love hearing whether you're listening to On Your Terms, so please tell me when you do.
And if something is impactful for you or you took something good away from it, it's so helpful for me to hear.
Don't ever take that for granted, because I also want to make sure that I'm giving you stuff that's actually helpful to you, because that's my goal.
That's why I'm here.
So, with that, I'm going to let you go listen to this episode and I hope you enjoy it.
I'll see you on the other side.
So, let's talk three things you should never do on a sales call and what you should do instead.
I thought about doing this episode because I do get a lot of questions from people about, you know, "I was on the phone the other day and someone asked me this and I didn't know how to respond." Or, "Am I allowed to give
people some advice on our sales calls?" Or, "Should my sales calls be kind of, like, mini-previews of what it's like to work with me as a coach?" So, I see people
struggling with what exactly they should do on sales calls, what's safe, what's not, and everything in between.
So, the issue really is that sales calls can land you in legal hot water, too.
So, I've talked about this before, but a lot of people tend to think wrongly that you can only get in legal trouble for things that you work with clients on.
Like, only a client could sue you or only a problem could come from a client.
And although that's more likely, for sure - and even that, by the way, is highly unlikely - if it was going to happen, it would happen more likely from a client, if that makes
sense.
But legal trouble can also come from just somebody who reads your content, someone who listens to your podcast - so we have a disclaimer on the podcast - somebody
who reads a blog post, watches your YouTube episode, is on a sales call with you.
Like, there are a lot of different places where we're posting content, we're sharing tips and advice, and all of that kind of stuff or whatever, we call it information education, and it's possible
that somebody takes this information or they take something that you say to them on a sales call and then they go and implement it.
It doesn't go very well, and then they come back and blame you for it.
So, we need to be just aware of it.
And, you know, it's not my style ever to freak you out and to be like, this is something to be terribly afraid of.
It's just something to be aware of.
And then, we can, like, move on, right?
So, we can all take that collective breath together.
I don't want you to be worried about this.
I don't want you to feel like this is another stressful thing or another thing you should be worried about.
It's just something to be aware of.
I'm just bringing information.
This is just information, just data.
So, I don't want you to be on sales calls and feel uncomfortable or feel unsure of what you're to say or anything like that.
So, today's episode is just a quick hit in helping you understand, at least at the very least, what you definitely should not do.
And then, I'm going to try to give you some substitutions and better ideas or safer ideas of what you could do instead.
So, when people sign up for your calls who just want free advice - and, you know, the funny thing is that depending on what you do, you might not
even be able to give advice, period.
Like, whether someone works with you or not, let alone on a free sales call - it's really important that we keep this in mind.
I mean, we should always keep our scope of practice in mind.
Like, our scope of practice should kind of be this little thing on our shoulder that we carry around, and we're thinking about, and making sure that whatever we do from content to our actual programs
to our podcast episodes, that everything's within our scope of practice.
But remember that on a sales call, especially, or, I think, the other area of your business I would probably equate this to is when someone sends you a DM.
So, I talk about this a lot on Instagram about saying, like, "Remember when people are sending you DMs, you really don't know who's behind the screen." I don't mean that, like, a creepy way.
I mean, you don't know what their full story is.
You don't know their full health history, their full financial history, their full business history, whatever it is.
So, we definitely don't know anything.
When people get on to sales calls, yes, they might have filled out a form, but the kind of idea behind is you don't have the full picture enough
to give them anything more than just some connection information education, not advice.
And, in fact, you might never be able to give them advice, depending on what you do.
So, what are three things that you should never do on a sales call?
Number one, you should never give advice on a sales call.
And don't make recommendations because recommendations even are advice, because essentially you're looking at, like, two options or something like that, and you're making the decision for someone or suggesting
what the decision should be.
And you really can't do that without having the full breadth of knowledge like what I'm talking about.
So, instead of giving advice and instead of making recommendations, I always recommend to treat it more like an intake call, and a getting to know you call, and a
connection call.
I like when people call them even connection calls because I feel like that's a better use of the term.
Even a sales call, I mean, it's there to try to make a sale, meaning that you want to make the sale, but you also want to make sure that it's right for the customer and the customer wants to make sure that the
product is right for them.
That doesn't involve advice.
So, we want to treat it more like an intake.
And we want to be collecting data and information about this person.
We want to be asking a lot of questions.
Doing more listening than talking, because advice also requires you to talk a lot.
So, if you're running a sales call properly, you really should be taking in more information and probably just listening, holding space,
maybe getting more curious, going a little deeper with some of the follow up questions depending on what the person shares with you.
The point is really to see whether your program, your course, your product is the right fit for them and will actually help
them with what they're looking for.
And in order for you to do that, you have to know what they're looking for.
That's why in the sales call, we focus more on these questions, the connections, the prodding a little bit deeper than we
do about the advice.
If anything, as you're listening to people, especially on those types of calls and especially if you're an online coach of some sort or service provider, people are typically looking
for some validation, not only in their experience, but as to you are the kind of person that could help them.
And that doesn't come from you offering them advice on the call.
That comes from, first of all, just listening and validating their experience, holding the space for them.
But, also, maybe letting them know that this is something you've worked on before or telling them that that makes sense to you based on what you've seen and what you've heard.
Maybe you can even share, depending on how deep this goes, how you have navigated this in the past with other clients, what you have seen, I think it would be nice to
offer a little bridge of hope to say, "I have worked on this with other people.
This is a little bit about what it looked like for them or for our work together.
And here's how it's going now." I think that would be kind of a better way.
Instead of being like, "The three things that you need to do with your life are A, B, and C." And then, they're supposed to run off and do it.
That's really not the point of a sales call, but it's also not legally safe for you because you're not yet in a position to be able to take in all of the information that you would actually
need to give that kind of feedback, that kind of advice.
So, I think about this a lot.
I don't give legal advice because I don't offer any legal services and I'm not practicing as an attorney anymore and all that kind of stuff.
I sell legal templates. I sell legal products.
But when people kind of push me on it, I will explain that, first of all, this is safe for them, too, by the way, so you can explain this to your clients
.
We have this joke as lawyers that everyone will contact a lawyer, especially who does
estates like wills and trusts, and they'll say, "I have a simple will.
I just need you to draft a simple will." Everybody thinks they have a simple will.
Hardly anyone does.
And so, I feel the same way when I get these emails all the time, people will be like, "Super simple question.
Real quick." And then, it's always this super complicated question.
Sometimes it's that they don't know what they don't know.
And so, they don't even know that they're asking a complicated question.
But the point is, and if someone's ever upset about it, about me saying I can't answer that is that, I think about I would need to know how you file your taxes, what your relationship
status is, whether you have any other jobs, what last year's taxes look like, what's going on in your business, where you're located, where your client's located.
Like, I would need to see your contract.
I would need to read all the emails between the two of you.
I would have to listen to the phone calls or interview you.
You know, there would be so many things.
And that's what a lawyer does. When you hire a lawyer, this is what they do.
It's a little bit, like, investigation.
They read all the documents. They talk to the people.
They do the research.
But if you're not able to do that fully for someone, then you're in no position to be offering advice.
So, I think that it's just a good way to start off to say, don't offer advice, don't make recommendations, treat it more like an intake.
And if you're wondering what kinds of questions you should ask, I'm actually going to share that towards the end.
The second thing you should never do on a sales call is take payment over the phone.
So, I think that it is just unsafe for you to ever take possession of someone's personal financial information.
And we're already dealing with so much data.
And I think that people think that because we have online businesses or maybe you think you have too small of a business or something, data breach rules don't apply to you
or PCI compliance issues don't apply for you, that's payment card industry.
You might think that these things don't apply to you, but they do.
And what I always tell my customers and the people in my community is that, at the end of the day, you own the business, you run the business, and you are responsible for what
happens as a result of your business.
So, if there's a breach, if there's a leak, if there's a compromise of some sort, you're going to get roped into this and you're going to have to answer questions and provide some documents and do the
things. And so, we want to take as many steps as possible to keep people's information safe or just never take possession of it.
I know that some people, especially some business coaches, will kind of promote you taking cards over the phone or forcing people to pay - not forcing -
but backing them into paying on a Zoom call or a sales call or something like that.
Personally, I don't agree with it.
First of all, as a part of the strategy, I'm just like, "I want to work with people who want to work with me." Not because they feel like I have to give you my card right now or she'll never speak to me again.
But the other reason is because I don't want to take possession of anybody's personal financial information or business financial information.
So, one of the other legal reasons is that because you're not actually seeing the card or maybe even the person if it's just a phone call or something like that, it could put you in a tough legal
spot. Because, first of all, it's easier for people to claim fraudulent charges when the card is not present when it's charged, like when it's not swiped, tapped, whatever.
So, when it's digitally input by somebody who's not present with the cardholder or the physical card itself, that presents some legal issues.
And so, I don't want that to happen for you.
And, instead, I would rather you hand this off to a PCI compliant, that's the payment card industry compliant software or processor.
So, making sure that whatever you're using to process cards, which I would hope and assume that most of the major ones are - but, obviously, do your due diligence and just double check and make sure.
I'm sure they say it all over their website if you Google or search it on their actual website - you just want to let them handle payment, that would be my recommendation.
Just so you know, I typically recommend that after a sales call, you follow up with an email.
You can even automate this process, but that you follow up.
And if the person, by the way, says yes to you on a sales call, you would follow up by saying, "Great.
Here's a link to your contract to review and sign at your convenience.
And then, here's the link to your payment." You make both of those available at the same time because people need to know what the terms are of something when they're agreeing to it.
They can't only see the terms of the contract later after they pay.
And so, we would send them this.
Or, you know, it can come from two different emails.
But the idea is that it gets there roughly at the same time or at least that they have the opportunity to review your contract terms before paying.
And we let them use the processor that you use, like PayPal or Stripe, or whoever.
So, that's what I would do for number two.
Instead of taking payment, I would allow somebody else to process this for you.
Just don't even run the risk of taking possession of people's financial information.
Have you ever gotten on a sales call with a potential client and walked away from it disappointed that they weren't respecting your boundaries, weren't honoring your scope of practice, or that they had the wrong idea
about what it is that you actually do in your business.
You know, the ones like it tend to get real cozy in the Zoom meeting and then start to challenge your scope of practice, ask for coaching advice on the discovery call, which is a legal
no-no that could land you in legal hot water.
Or they just booked the call so they can just pick your brain without ever picking up their wallet.
I call them scope pushers because they like to push the boundaries of what you'll do for them.
And these people usually win awards for client least likely to pay you on time, or client most likely to sue you should they ever encounter a problem with you, or the
client most likely to sign up for a three month package only one month in to say, "Thanks.
I got what I need. Please cancel those remaining payments."
Here's the deal. I've helped thousands of entrepreneurs, coaches, and service providers, just like you, to avoid the wrong clients and only attract the amazing ones who pay on time, refer you to their friends,
and respect your scope of practice, not to mention your office hours.
I want to help you do the same thing, and that's why I created a totally free email template pack and video walkthrough called Pre-Qualify Before They Buy, which includes three attorney written email
templates plus a video training to pre-qualify your discovery calls for better customers.
Once you copy and paste the Pre-Qualify Before They Buy email templates and fire them off to potential clients, you'll get those scope pushing Freebie Hunters vanishing from your Calendly links before ever meeting
with them virtually.
Phew, which means that you get to say see it to future legal problems before they ever even happen.
So, if that sounds like a slice of heaven that you need, then head straight to the link in the description.
That's samvanderwielen.com/prequalify-oyt to get your free copy of the email templates and video walkthrough right now.
That's samvanderwielen.com/prequalify.oyt to get your free copy right now so you can start enjoying stress-free discovery calls with ideal clients
right away.
Okay. The third and last thing that you should never do on a sales call is to let the person that you're on the sales call with take the lead.
And this is really easy to do, especially if you're like me and I am the most non-confrontational lawyer on earth.
I don't ever say anything about anything.
One time I actually was on a podcast, I was being interviewed on someone's podcast and we were, like, several minutes into the podcast when I realized that this person, I think, she thought I
might have been someone else and, in fact, thought I was an accountant.
She thought I was a CPA and not a lawyer.
And I had honestly considered not saying anything.
Not because I wanted to pretend to be an accountant.
I would have been really in deep doo doo when it came to having to offer any substantive advice.
Although, I did take tax law in law school and it was on the bar.
But I just didn't want to offend her and I didn't want to say anything and it felt so direct.
If that tells you anything about me and my personality.
By the way, I did very softly and quietly interrupt her to let her know, "I'm a lawyer.
I just want to let you know." And I felt terrible about it.
And so, with that being said, if you're like me and you want people to be happy and you want to smooth everything over all the time, or you're just like newer to
business - I remember when I first ran sales calls, I felt like they just would sometimes run away from me.
I think with time, you get better and better.
But I have a couple of tips for you, if you don't mind, about how you can take the lead in a nice way.
And I think it actually helps the conversation to be more productive and to move forward and to actually get the information that you need, let alone to also be legally safer for
you.
So, really, you want to take the lead in the conversation off the bat.
Every once in a while, there will be somebody who you get on to a sales call with and they're like, "Hey, Sam.
Great to meet you. Okay.
So, here's my, like, 37 questions." And then, they just start off, right?
Those are the ones we have to like really wrangle in.
But also you can control it a little bit from the beginning.
You can control the flow and you can set the boundaries.
Those are really the goals with not allowing the other person to take the lead.
So, for me, at least when I used to run sales calls and the way that I teach customers inside the Ultimate Bundle now and everything, is that, I like to start off by
introducing myself.
And this is not like your life stories.
This isn't, like, how when you were seven, you were in gymnastics or something.
I just want to let you know, maybe, how I'm qualified or what I do in the name of my company to remind people.
And, really, you're kind of like, I help statement a brief thing.
So, maybe like, "Hey.
It's so nice to meet you.
Hopefully, you know by now I'm Sam.
I'm an attorney turned entrepreneur.
So, I was a practicing attorney." And this is where I would use your story, especially for those of you who are navigating scope issues and you're trying to explain to people.
Like, I have a ton of people in the Ultimate Bundle who were doctors, and nurses, and lawyers, and accountants, and all kinds of things who then are trying to navigate the scope of practice
and explain what they were without also making it sound like you're then acting as that person.
So, just saying something like, "I'm not sure if you had a chance to read anything about my background, but I used to be an attorney and I left the law in 2017.
And so, I offer now, basically, two options.
I have legal templates that you can purchase a la carte and then I have my Ultimate Bundle.
And I spend my day helping people to navigate those products and creating content that's helpful for people to legally protect their businesses.
And I'm just so glad to be here.
And, now, I'd love to know a little bit about you.
Like, what do you do?" Or It depends what you do.
So, for me, I would start off by saying, "Can you tell me a little bit about your business?"
And so, in those conversations and those first sets of questions, I was really asking for data and information.
And I was taking notes on all of this.
And I actually have a Google Doc of, like, thousands and thousands of entries of these calls that I had.
So, it was great customer research as I move forward in my business and created the Ultimate Bundle and all of that.
And I would ask them tell me a little bit about yourself, or tell me about your business, tell me where things are at.
When I had my health coaching business, I would say, "Tell me a little bit about how things are going for you, health-wise or fitness-wise, or wellness-wise," whatever they were coming to me for.
And depending on how the person answers, because some people are a bit more forthcoming than others, if it doesn't feel like it's enough information, you might want to say
something like, "Awesome.
Thanks so much for telling me that." Or, "That sounds really good.
Could you tell me a little bit more about this issue?"
So, you know, some people might have mentioned like, "I help busy moms work on fitness routines." And I'd be like, "That's awesome.
Thanks so much. Could you tell me a little bit more about how you work with moms on their fitness routines?
Like, what services and products do you offer?" So, I would kind of keep taking it a little bit deeper.
And when people would give very substantive responses, I would summarize it back to them.
I would mirror it back to them by saying, "So, basically, what you're saying is that you do this.
Is that right?" And then, they would tell me yes or no.
Or sometimes I'd find out a little extra nugget of information that was super helpful.
And I found that that way of doing it was not only keeping the flow, it kept me within the scope, too, because I was asking them questions.
They were clarifying questions.
They were questions about getting to know them.
It was kind of right fit questions, getting to are they the right type of person, type of business, is this something that they can prioritize for money sake, for time sake,
for lots of different things.
And making sure that they understood my scope really getting clear on what exactly they were looking for.
And if they don't know exactly what they're looking for, at least what results they're looking for, what kind of support they expect,
and seeing if these things are matching up with what you do so far.
So, we go through all of these questions.
I should have mentioned that before I get into those questions, I actually let them know very quickly how the call typically goes.
So, going back to review, I introduce myself quickly.
I then say, "Just to let you know, when I run these calls, the way that it typically goes is that we'll talk for about 20 minutes - " or however long you're going to talk "- and I'm going to ask you a lot of questions about
yourself and hear about how you're doing and how things are going.
And if it seems like it's a good fit, at the end, I'm going to share more with you about my - " like, if you have a program, you could say the program name or I'll share more about my services if you have like a number
of different things.
So, I would say like, "I'll share more with you about the Ultimate Bundle or my ala carte templates, if that's better for you.
How does that sound?" And they'd say, "That sounds great." And then, I would say, "Tell me a little bit about yourself or your business," and then go into my questions.
So, I think that that's like a healthy way to run the sales call.
From there, depending on how their questions go, if you do, in fact, think that it's a good fit, then I would say, "Great.
It seems like this is why." And I thought from a sales perspective, the thing that was the most helpful was pairing back specific things that they said in the sales
call to what was specifically inside of my program that would be beneficial to them.
So, they would say, like, "Well, I'm really getting stuck on this LLC piece, and I just don't understand whether I need an EIN first or whether I need an LLC first.
And do I have to really get a business bank account and all of this?" And so, I understood that, first of all, clarity was important to them, and sequential steps, and just knowing what they needed to do,
making things very easy and clear so that they could stop wasting their time, not waste money chasing around a bunch of different things.
They were probably, like, Google lawyering themselves to death.
And so, at the end, if I thought that the bundle was a good fit, I would connect those dots by saying, "You shared with me that it's felt really frustrating and overwhelming and confusing about
how to do all these steps.
And what's cool is that inside the bundle, I actually walk you through those step by step, and I even give you a guide checklist that's going to help you navigate these things and execute them
without wasting time."
So, you really want to pay attention to what they're saying for many different reasons, because you can actually connect the dots for them to show them exactly how they're going to get tangible benefits
from your product or services based on what they share.
And by the way, if you went through all of this, if you went through the sales call, and you asked all these questions, and you did all of these things, and you're not getting a good feeling or you get some answers that are
uncomfortable, or they're asking you things outside your scope and you're not sure how to navigate it, I want you to go back and listen to Episode 20 of my podcast.
Because in Episode 20 of my podcast, I talked about spotting and avoiding difficult clients ahead of time, and that includes people who just aren't going to respect your scope, or
just aren't the right fit for you, or asking you to twist yourself into a pretzel in sales calls or in emails or whatever, asking you to change your programs, your pricing, your
availability, your boundaries, everything else.
So, you definitely want to go back and listen to 20 if you haven't already.
But, essentially, that is how I ran sales calls.
And as I shared with you back in Episode 20, one of the best things that I did when I was running sales calls for my company was that I
implemented a little quick and easy automated three email template, three email system, where once somebody would book a free call with me, I set up the steps that I
talked about in Episode 20 about pre-qualifying clients to even get on a sales call with me, and that was huge.
But then, once they got through all those hoops, if they booked the call, it triggered a three email sequence that went to them that was written ahead of time, super easy, so I
set it and forget it. And it was a three email series that walked them through what the call was going to look like, what it wasn't going to look like, what I do,
what I don't do, what I have to offer, and even ask them to look over my products before we talked.
So that they they were familiar with the price points.
Nothing was a shock to them.
I wasn't shocking them on the call.
They understood. And they could also prepare by coming to the call with their questions about the product itself.
So, we avoided completely this awkward end of sales call conversation that's like, "Oh.
Now, that you've told me the price, I need to think about it." Or, "Now, that you've told me about the product, I need to go on your website and look at everything that's included to understand if it's right for me," because they had
already looked at it ahead of time or should have because I prompted them to.
And luckily for you, I am gifting you these three email templates plus a video training, where I'm walking you through how to implement and use these email templates to prequalify
clients before they buy, so that you can totally avoid those boundary barging clients, whether you end up actually working with them or just on a sales call or even in your
DMs. There's a lot that you're going to get out of these three email templates.
You can utilize them however you want.
They're going to be copy and paste, plug and play, free email templates for you.
You can just download them using the link below.
It's called Pre-Qualify Before You Buy.
You'll see the link below in the description on my website.
Or if you're watching on YouTube, you can see it down below in the description.
But if you download it, let me know down in the comments.
Let me know if you like it.
I can't wait to hear what you think.
And I hope that this episode was helpful in just illuminating some of the issues that can pop up on a sales call, some things that you should try to avoid, and what to do instead.
So, I can't wait for next week's episode.
I'm so excited to see you in next week's On Your Terms.
Until then, come say hi to me on Instagram.
I'm @samvanderwielen.
And just thank you so, so much for listening to On Your Terms.
Thanks so much for listening to the On Your Terms podcast.
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