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Hey, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, wherever you may be.

Scott Lewton here with you along with my dear friend Kevin L. Jackson on Supply Chain now.

Welcome to today's live stream.

Hey Kevin, how are you doing today?

Well, to be honest, I'm not sure which one of those applied to me.

Is it morning or afternoon?

I'm Recovering from my 22 hour flight from Manila, the Philippines.

That is remarkable.

So you're going to be kind of zombie Kevin today, is that right?

Well, no, I'm going to, I took some drugs before.

Okay.

So I'm good.

Got my caffeine.

Well, you in even pseudo zombie mode is still several light years ahead of me.

So we're still good.

But folks, on today's show, it's the Buzz where every Monday at 12 noon Eastern time, we discuss a variety of news developments across global supply chain, really across global business.

News that matters is what we like to call it.

And the Buzz is sponsored by our friends at Pegasus Logistics Group, a leading provider of contract logistics and warehousing solutions.

You can learn more about what our friend Tevin E. Taylor and the Pegasus team is up to@pegasuslogistics.com okay, Kevin, we got a lot to get into here today.

Big show, big, big show here on the last edition of the buzz for 2025.

Let's see, we're going to hit a few key takeaways from Gartner Supply Chain planning Summit in Denver.

We're going to be discussing how Walmart is really moving ahead with its drone delivery program.

We're going to pose the question, will humans truly embrace humanoids?

And despite early on predictions of big drop off, global trade has increased year over year here in 2025.

All that and much, much more.

And even better yet, Kevin is in about 12 minutes or so.

We got a great, great guest here today, Adrian Gonzalez, president of Adelante scm.

And we're going to be talking with Adrian on a variety of topics including some of his recent research.

Big show today.

Kevin, did you eat your Wheaties this morning?

Yes, I did.

You know, and that you know they have a, they talking about humanoids in Gwangju just last week so.

Well, hey, I'm all for them.

I'm gonna give you an example of a couple of, a couple of applications out veto.

But we'll get to that soon enough.

We'll get to that soon enough.

Hey, stay tuned, folks, for this great edition of the Buzz, powered by our friends at Pegasus.

And two things before we get going.

Number one, give us your take in the comments.

Right?

Just like hey, Diana is tuned in via LinkedIn.

Great to see you here today.

T Squared's with us.

Bring on the supply chain tech nourishment.

We want to hear yalls take.

That's right, it's coming, it's coming.

T Squared, great to have you.

And secondly, if you enjoy the show today, we'd love for you to share it with your friend, your network, your Aunt Edna up in Iowa, you name it.

They'll be better off for you doing that.

Okay.

Snowed in right now.

Really well, we've got folks here.

Right here.

Big thanks to Amanda Tricia running production.

Trisha said they had seven inches in Cincinnati.

Snow is everywhere, Kevin.

Yes, except in Atlanta, thankfully.

Everything stops.

Okay, so let's do this.

There's two things I want to get to before we bring in Adrian.

And folks, we got some great stuff to talk to Adrian about.

Let's see here.

Let's start.

Kevin, if it works for you, with.

With that said, which we dropped over the weekend.

So as you may know, Kevin, a few weeks ago we were out in Denver at the Gardener Supply Chain Planning Summit and we led off with a few key takeaways from that event.

And with that said, we're gonna be publishing about a dozen blog summaries of my interviews and conversations there.

But in this edition here, we shared a few nuggets, including this one.

Kevin, listen to this.

This one from John Wayne of Global Supply Chain, AKA Jake Barr.

So Jake stressed that organizations must adopt a deliberate human machine strategy, starting small with targeted use cases and rebuilding processes around what modern technology enables.

Successful transformation, he noted, is people led, with teams actively shaping solutions rather than than having them imposed.

Jake said staying in neutral is not an option.

This is not yesterday's supply chain.

Today's technology unlocks capabilities industry has never had before.

And one last thing he had because he has a knack for keeping it real, Kevin.

Like you do.

Jake said out of the summit he was having a lot of conversations with folks and there was.

He saw a lot of deers in headlights.

Jake saw a lot of timid, fearful leaders when it comes to some of the innovative technology and new ways we're planning.

But anyway, check out some of the key takeaways.

Stay tuned for a lot more blog summaries.

You can find resources, live events, and a whole bunch more in this edition of with that said and we're dropping a link right there in the chat so you can take a look.

Kevin, react to what Jake said or anything else you saw there.

And with that said, my friend, well.

Actually you do have to make all your, you know, your business processes.

You have to take in both humans and machines and even that artificial intelligence kind of machine in your plans because that's really the only way you can keep up with the change in today's environment and also the multiple inflows of information that you need to keep up with your customers.

Especially when you're looking at a dynamic supply chain.

Yeah, I like that, Kevin.

You know, another thing I heard a couple people mention, especially with historic levels of uncertainty, is how innovative, truly AI driven technology, that uncertainty becomes more of an input.

I love that type of thinking.

Right.

Yeah.

So I mean, everybody is using AI because it's applicable to just about all aspects of your life.

So it's really important for you to not, you know, not shy away because it's critical to not only your professional growth, but your personal growth.

So you and Jake are both like, don't be scared, don't be scared.

You always say, Kevin, that's like I put that synonymous with your perspective.

Since our very first episode forever ago, we gotta lean into digital transformation, lean into new ways of doing things.

But leaders, you've got an extra responsibility to make it more approachable forever for your people and do it with your people.

I would argue, Kevin, to give you the last word, would you agree with that?

Oh yeah, absolutely.

Because you always have to answer that question.

What's in it for me?

That's right, with them.

All right, so with that said, Trisha has dropped a link to that.

Check it out and stay tuned for a whole bunch more from the summit.

Also, the thing we close with with that said, Kevin, is do you have your grocery shopping list ready?

So folks, little context here.

Check out.

I was writing about some of the things Kroger's doing differently and I just had to use this image.

And if you're listening to this, it's a really poorly spelled vegetable list.

Poorly spelled?

I mean, it's their reality.

Well folks, check it out.

You have to see what we're, we're referring to.

You can find it with that said and it just illustrates for the May time while we need to lean in this artificial intelligence, humans are great at many things, but math and sometimes spelling, like me, may not be our strengths.

Amin via LinkedIn Great to see you here today.

I look forward to your perspective throughout these Topics.

Okay, I think there's one more thing I want to hit before we bring in Adrian and Kevin.

You have been a part of some of the biggest advanced technology and digital transformation projects and really in history, I would argue, here on Mother Earth and in the great beyond.

Kevin's not sure what picture I'm going to show here.

I'm scared.

Kevin.

You know, like, we like to regularly track how Walmart has continued to up its game in recent years.

Now, their drone program, as reported here by Supply Chain Dive, has really taken a really big leap forward.

Walmart has launched drone delivery from six stores in metro Atlanta about a week or two ago.

And in fact, they're launching drone delivery operations in the targeted new cities of Houston, Charlotte, Orlando and Tampa.

Now, as most folks know, you don't just buy a drone and flip a switch.

These things go through all sorts of regulatory and operational clearances.

In fact, we interviewed Beth Lippo, founder and CEO of Drone Express, which I think is Dexa.

Now, last year on the show, she told us about some of this stuff.

So, Evan, your thoughts when you see what Walmart's doing?

Your thoughts here?

Well, well, first of all, this is exploding nationwide or even globally.

And when you think about the fact that I guess in the article talked about that Walmart could reach and offer the drone service to up to 75% the area's population, that's a huge percentage.

And the convenience to your customers, reduced cost and reduced headache for those customers.

But it is a new paradigm.

And it reminds me of back in the pandemic days where we shifted from physically going to stores just to eat.

Everyone shops now online.

They get their food through doordash.

Now, this is another shift where the drone is bringing everything to you now and instead of delivery guy.

So this is just the next step on.

On the ladder.

Ladder to wear.

But.

Hey, fascinating.

Yeah, it is fascinating.

I was down near Georgia Tech.

It's been a few months, and this is the latest of grace development.

But I'm down there eating chicken wings and having a beer with a dear friend, and down the street goes a drone delivery, probably delivering something from doordash or something else.

And it was navigating this intersection, right?

Its proximity sensor, for lack of a better phrase, was a little bit.

It was a little bit overactive because a car passed like further down the intersection, probably like 300ft away.

And I swear that drone stopped for a second.

What?

Folks, we're going to start to see this.

You know, we've been predicting this forever, and I love to See, Walmart's going to learn all kinds of things with this next expansion.

And we're about to get an update on what Amazon, the big A, is up to with their drone programs.

But Walmart's got the edge right now.

Kevin, would you agree?

Yeah, absolutely.

Okay, folks, we have got a terrific guest here on the last edition of the buzz for 2025.

What an incredible year.

We are delighted to bring on Adrian Gonzalez, who's a trusted advisor and leading industry analyst with more than 26 years of research experience in transportation management, logistics outsourcing, and other supply chain and logistics topics.

He is the founder and president of Adelante scm, a peer to peer learning, networking and research community for supply chain and logistics professionals.

I may have to join that, Kevin.

Yeah, I have to learn more stuff.

Join it.

Yeah.

You probably also know Adrian from Talking Logistics, an online video talk show and blog featuring thought leaders and newsmakers in the supply chain and logistics industry.

He also leads Indigo, a market research service that brings together a community of supply chain and logistics practitioners who share practical knowledge and advice with each other while giving back to charitable causes.

Love that.

Many, many hats.

I tell you, he is, yes.

Got a big hat rack, very busy, and you're gonna love his sense of humor.

So I want to welcome in Adrian Gonzalez, president of Adelante scm.

Hey.

Hey, Adrian.

Hey, Adrian.

Hey, Scott.

Hey, Kevin.

Great to join you guys here on this last episode.

Great to kind of wrap up the year together.

Yeah, same.

I had to go through your agent and find a slot in your global tours and all.

But Adrian, it's great to have you.

I admire your work and I look forward to learning from you here today and share your sense of humor with our supply chain now audience.

So, folks, get ready on that last note.

Adrian and Kevin, this is where I want to get started here.

You know, a little fun warm up question here on December 15th.

It's hard to believe December 15th.

But today, Adrian and Kevin, December 15th is a significant from a music history standpoint.

So get this.

Y' all know I'm a big history nerd.

So Johnny Cash released Folsom Prison Blues on this date back in 1955, a little before all of our time.

John Lennon performed what would be his final United Kingdom concert in 1969.

In 1992, Dr. Dre released his iconic album the Chronic, which largely defined the 1990s for many, including collab with Snoop Dogg.

Blues legend B.B.

king received the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 2006 on this date and in 2021, Bruce Springsteen, well, he sold out, or at least he sold his entire music catalog to Sony for reportedly $500 million.

Sony, hey, you want to deal a deal, do a deal.

Call me anytime.

So I'm only 100 million.

I'll tell you a couple.

So, Adrian and Kevin, with all that as a backdrop, I want to ask you both and, Adrian, starting with you, when you think of the holiday season or the end of year season, what's one of your favorite music memories?

Well, Kevin, first of all, I'm disappointed that you did not pick any, you know, great music milestones from the 80s, because that is my.

You know, I'm a huge Depeche Mode fan, New Order, you know, New wave fan.

So I was waiting for something there.

But, you know, in terms of holidays, this time of the year and music, I'm first generation American.

I grew up in Brooklyn, New York, with, you know, my parents, my aunts and uncles.

The family owned a bodega in Brooklyn.

Wow.

So my dad and my uncles all worked together.

I grew up with my cousins.

We were all, like, almost siblings, you know, went to school together.

We did everything together.

So as you can imagine, during the holidays, we all got together.

Lots of music, lots of eating, lots of dancing.

So the music part was, you know.

Yes.

There was some of whatever we were listening to in the radio back in the, you know, late 70s, early 80s.

Right.

But a lot.

A lot of salsa and merengue and, you know, a lot of dancing going on.

Cuban and Puerto Rican music going on.

So, Adrian, you just.

You very powerfully walked us through your upbringing.

And I tell you, if you're like me, I wish I had a camera recording all of those wonderful moments with cousins and extended family.

And, man, I bet your family's got some stories running that bodega up in New York City.

That is amazing.

In Brooklyn in the 70s, in Red Hook.

Yeah, we got a lot of stories.

You know, we'll have to show the.

That that's a whole separate episode.

It is.

All right.

We're gonna.

We're gonna hold you to it.

We're gonna bring you back.

Dive into that.

Kevin, same question.

When you think of the holidays in the year, what music memories or memories in general come to your mind?

Well, you know, two things sort of jumped in my mind.

Like, I. I've always loved the song Sleigh Belts, the Christmas carol Sleigh Bells.

Right.

When I was really, really small, I got the opportunity to play the block.

You know?

You know, at the end of Slave Bells.

Man, Kevin, that's an important part of that, of the whole song.

So the song is not complete without.

It, without the block.

Right.

I felt so important.

It was in church.

I got to play the block.

The sleigh bells.

Love it, Love it.

Well, Kevin and Adrian, I want to add one of mine to Yalls and check out this, this piece of equipment here.

So this right here, my grandparents, my mom's side had this in like a living room way back when I was a kid.

And I'll never forget for several, several years stretch there when this thing was playing.

It had Christmas music.

It had the Chipmunks, their Christmas album, had Perry Como.

It had a lot of the older Frank Sinatra probably and that, that.

Now, Adrian and Kevin, I got this picture from ebay.

That thing right there, which came out in late 60s, will go for $5,000.

Can you believe that?

So clearly, clearly it was a special part of someone else's memories as well.

And it probably weighs 5,000 pounds, too.

That's real wood right there, I tell you.

No plywood.

Okay, a lot of stuff to get into here today.

Let's see here.

Adrian, I love, I mentioned some of your great work.

One of the many, many moving pieces there is your weekly newsletter right above the fold.

And this is from this little snip from your most recent newsletter.

And what I did, Adrian, is me and Kevin kind of perused through that and we took three stories that we want to kind of walk through.

And then we're also going to get into some research here in the kind of the second segment.

But for starters, now, let's see here.

Let's talk about the usmca.

And folks, I'm not sure what, you know, I'm not sure how long it's going to be around.

We're going to see.

As reported by cbc, the White House's leader on trade policy is suggesting that the USMCA may not be the best approach at governing trade across North America.

U.S. trade Representative Jameson Greer said last week that when it comes to the future of the United States Mexico, Canada Agreement, which is up for renewal in 2026, that the administration is keeping all options on the table.

Greer cited the differences in US Trade with the two countries as a key reason for possibly creating separate trade agreements rather than a unified approach.

Now, Greer owes a report to United States Congress by January 2nd indicating what the Trump administration's intentions are.

And then all three countries must decide by July 1st of 2026 whether they want to extend, renegotiate or, or let the USMCA expire So, Adrian, love to get your thoughts here.

Yeah, you know, there's never a dull moment in this industry and certainly in global trade management, you know, especially this year.

Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, one of the things that we've learned with the Trump administration is if, if they're talking about something, they mean it.

Right.

So I mean, when, when Trump was running for president, he was basically saying, you know, if, if I get reelected, I'm going to impose tariffs.

And he got reelected and he followed through on that.

So I think the fact that Jameson Greer, the US Trade Representative, is talking about, hey, we're going to be revisiting this.

Maybe the current framework is not the right framework.

Maybe we need to do separate bilateral agreements with each country.

I think that is a scenario that if you're usmca, is part of your supply chain design, if it's part of your strategy, you know, already you should be planning for all different types of scenarios depending on how this plays out.

Because yes, it could either be the current agreement just gets renegotiated and looking at some of the things that the administration, again, is talking about, like country of origin seems to be kind of the sticking point, or one of the areas that at least from the US Perspective wants to get looked at, or it's two bilateral agreements and what that might entail.

I think it's very low probability that nothing happens in the sense that, you know, the, we just let the USMCA die and there's nothing to replace it with.

I think that's a low probability.

But again, you never know.

So, you know, I think you should also plan for that scenario as well.

Right.

So I think my main takeaway is that you got to keep this on your radar.

It's obviously like you said January 2nd, by January 2nd, the administration has to kind of share what, what its intentions are, what it plans to do.

But again, the planning needs to start today in thinking through all those possible scenarios.

That's right.

Adrian, great points there.

Kevin, your thoughts?

Well, you know, I'm a globalist, right.

And when you talk about global commerce and our transition to E commerce, electronic commerce, the importance of national borders actually are reduced tremendously.

And I think it's helpful from a global society point to reduce the barriers between countries, including in trade.

So, you know, many may say it's much better to be protectionist, but in history that has not been helpful for our country.

And I think things like, you know, tariffs really increase friction when it comes to trade and commerce.

And in an electronic world, I think that's something you need to avoid.

Excellent points, Kevin.

And two quick points.

You know, my opinion, just my opinion, folks.

Every country out there wants a fair deal.

So with that said though, we've got, and Kevin, we've said this a thousand, I've said this a thousand times probably.

We've got one of the most unique trading zones between Mexico, the US And Canada in the world.

Right.

And rather what I would just my opinion, I'd rather lean into that and use that to all three countries benefits and use that probably as a leverage point in other deals around the globe.

Right.

In a good way, practical way, we.

Should expand it to South America.

Right?

That's my opinion.

But to Adrian's point, we got a plan for all possibilities.

And good thing is with today's technology, we could do that a whole lot easier than, you know, even 10 years ago, five years ago, Adrian, your final point here.

Again, my main takeaway here is that everyone's been focused on the tariff situation.

Obviously we were all waiting for the Supreme Court decision and the legality of that approach.

So that's going to be one big thing that's going to probably come down relatively soon here.

But I think this is another big item here because like as you both said, the regional trading block that we have here with Mexico and Canada is hugely important for all three countries.

And I think that, you know, finding the right approach to credit, trying to find a win, win, win approach is, is, is the right scenario here.

But you got to plan for all contingencies.

That's, that's the, the bottom line, that's for sure.

Okay, let's move to a little easier topic.

I want to address a question that will continue to grow in rele years ahead.

Will humans embrace humanoids?

Interesting.

I'm curious to see what trade policies that humanoids might come up with.

Who knows, maybe we'll lean on that down the road.

But Adrian, based on this really interesting Wall Street Journal article entitled Humanoid Robots Finally Get Real Jobs, you posed several interesting questions to your Indigo supply chain research community to gain their perspectives in a couple different ways.

And some of the key findings.

Let's see here.

Adoption is low amongst the group with only one respondent actively using humanoids in their logistics operations.

That probably doesn't surprise too many folks.

Yet 63% of the folks you polled had no interest.

26% said they are exploring possibilities right now.

That's cool.

In terms of potential applications where humanoids would be a great fit.

I bet this won't surprise anybody.

65% said picking and packing, 62% said repetitive assembly tasks, and 38% said loading and unloading trucks.

My vote would go to washing new cars, where I spent one of my in the hot South Carolina summers.

Humanoids could definitely do that back in the day.

So, Adrian, if you would tell us some of your key takeaways from the questions about humanoids you were posing to your community.

Yeah, I mean, I think I've been hearing a lot and reading a lot about humanoids over the past, you know, couple of years.

I think it was two years ago I had the chance to.

Actually, it was last year.

I didn't go to Promet this year.

This year, I don't know if it was Promet was held this year or not.

But anyway, I did see some humanoid robots last year and yeah, I walked away, you know, thinking, well, this is really not ready for prime time.

You know, I'm.

I'm looking at this robot moving and grabbing a box and putting it somewhere.

And all I kept thinking in my head was, gosh, I could have moved and shelved 10 boxes in the time it took that robot to do one.

Right.

You know, so I would say that I'm a little bit skeptical about mainly whether it's the right form factor, you know, for a lot of these applications.

Right.

And like you said, you know, so that's kind of sparked doing some research with our Indago supply chain research community.

I think that the findings weren't that surprising, you know, but, you know, we saw one of the items we highlighted in the Talking Logistics newsletter this week was Mercado Libre and Agility Robotics that does humanoid robots, you know, had an announcement last week in terms of MercadoLibre going to implement some humanoid robots in the application.

So companies are definitely, definitely looking to explore and try to see where there might be suitable applications.

I think ultimately, like everything else in technology, the market will decide.

The market will determine, you know, who are the winners and losers.

My current perspective is that I'm not convinced it's the right form factor, you know, particularly for warehousing and, you know, manufacturing applications.

To me, if you're going to do a robot, you know, this is a great way to kind of start with a clean slate of paper.

And I think I joked and my newsletter on Friday, hey, you know, give me a robot that kind of doesn't walk, but like hovers on the ground and, and has like octopus arms with suction cups.

And, you know, it's kind of like, be creative with it.

I think this, I think Trying to copy a human body in robot form I think lacks creativity, but that's my opinion.

And, you know, the way technology moves, you could probably have me, you know, a year from now, two years from now, eating my words.

And that's just the way it is.

Well, I don't know.

I don't think so.

I think you're absolutely right.

I mean, these humanoid robots, this just shows the hubris of us humans.

We think we are perfect and we're not, believe me.

So, Kevin, you shared a couple of links in the private chat.

Yeah, that second link, I think is best.

I actually have multiple.

But just recently in Wuhan, they had a.

A humanoid robot mall in China where you were able to go and just walk through all the different humanoid robots, and it makes you maybe, you know, maybe you'd like it.

But if you're going to have a robot, I'm with Adrian.

You want to make it specialized to do exactly what it's designed to do to improve your business line, you know?

Right.

Humans, our form factor is just too generalized to be perfect in anything.

And we're not designed to be perfect.

We're designed to be the generalist.

Right.

I think that's what we've been designed to do.

So we can fit everywhere.

I was just going to quickly say I was talking to someone who is very pro humanoid robots, and they use your point, Kevin, which I agree with, but they used your point to say, that's exactly why humanoid robots have a promising future, because they're highly flexible.

You can use them for one application today, and then tomorrow if the business changes, or everything else.

Right.

That humanoid robot can be, you know, one day they're picking and packing, and then the next day you can say, hey, you know what?

Now unload trucks.

And that same robot can do both versus having a very specialized robot or system that only does one thing very well.

So I think the verdict is out and we'll see, you know, which way it goes.

Yeah, that's right.

All right, so a couple things here.

Tricia has shared a long link that Kevin shared with us about China's first humanoid robot store, which opened in Wuhan.

So check that out, folks.

I'm going to also add.

So, Adrian and Kevin, I think it is largely inevitable.

How quickly will we get there to where it's very prevalent and widespread adoption?

We'll see.

But gosh, as we all know, the technology is evolving so fast, but as Adrian said, the market's got to see value.

Right?

Yeah.

Now, I would just add one more thing.

Adrian and Kevin, I saw a video.

I saw it on X.

Was.

Has to be, right, right.

Has to be real, right?

But this robot, and we probably have all seen examples, right, Where a humanoid, a bot of sorts, kind of goes sidebars and it kind of goes off the ranch a little bit, right.

And the human co workers scrambled, right.

So with that seared into my brain, going back to this Wall Street Journal article, there was one application that showed a robot with some sort of baton, which I'm showing right here, I would veto.

I'm not sure what that humanoid is doing with that big, long steel stick, but I would not be in that application.

Adrian, are you signing up for this?

Are you.

You know what I'm saying?

I mean, you open the segment by asking the question, well, will humans embrace humanoid robots?

I mean, that's really like almost like a sociology question.

And, and I think I, I personally would.

Would be more comfortable.

Comfortable working with a robot that looks less like me.

Right.

That's more.

Right.

You know, I think one that looks like me and is going to be way smarter than me and can lift, you know, £5,000, you know, because it's mechanical.

That would freak me out a little bit.

So I'd rather, I'd rather work with robots that don't look human at all.

Right.

I like, like Adrian.

I'm kind of geared like that, too.

Kevin, your final word here.

Adrian's right.

That's the easy answer.

That's the easy answer.

So are you.

So, Kevin, to give you a specific question, are you more apt to be willing to work with humanoids that look like us, or are you more apt to work with, you know, non human forms?

I guess I think I'll probably like the non human forms.

I want a robot that complements me, not imitates me.

Okay, fair enough.

I want one that makes my job easier, especially if it involves physical labor, makes it safer.

And again, I don't want any robots to be wielding swords.

Okay, moving right along, we're going to take a hard right turn and we're going to be talking about global trade volumes and how they're projected to shake out for the year.

It might surprise a few folks, as reported by the Wall Street Journal again over there by the WSJ team.

Despite all the tariffs and the trade wars and the friction and everything else, global trade has largely remained resilient.

The United nations now projects global goods and services.

All that Trade will reach $35 trillion in 2025.

That's up 7% year over year from Last year, of course, reflecting not only higher volumes, which is ideal, but higher prices.

So thanks a million there Trade war.

The World Trade Organization had predicted last April, this past April, was that seven months ago that world trade would decrease this year, which would be a bit unusual, not unheard of, but a bit unusual in modern history.

It happened in 2009 thanks to the global financial crisis, and it decreased year over year again in 2020, of course, to hopefully the once in a lifetime pandemic.

One last note, China's export shifts, well, they seem to be working as a country is reporting a record $1 trillion trade surplus.

Right.

So Adrian, when you think of all that we've been through this year, it's a great time to do it.

Surprise.

Not surprised.

Your thoughts here?

Well, first, I think it shows, you know, why making predictions and forecasts is a fool's errand in this, you know.

Right.

Because it's, it's really, you know, there's so many factors that it's unpredictable.

I think it was a, it was a f. Fair prediction back in April when, you know, the tariffs came on board and they were announced and certainly the administration was talking about tariffs of 30, 40, 50% and above.

I think you fast forward to today and those types of very high tariffs never really truly materialized.

There was a kind of a walk back, if you will, and we've kind of settled that at a lower standpoint.

I think you've seen also things like AI driving growth.

You know, one of the things you see here on the screen, you know, one of the subtext there is that 72% of global trade goods still trade place on most favorite nation terms.

So, you know, a lot of countries have bilateral agreements with one another and free trade agreements with one another and those have remained intact.

Right.

So, you know, yes, the, the spotlight is, has been on the US and kind of the tariffs we've imposed on, on our trading partners.

And obviously as the US goes historically, so does the rest of the world.

But you know, it just goes to show you, building on what Kevin said before, that, you know, overall, this movement that, that has occurred, you know, for decades now towards free trade is pretty robust and resilient.

I think the big question is, you know, will this continue in 2026?

Right.

And we could all sit here again and make predictions one way or another, and we'll likely be wrong one way or another.

But that's the question because I think that there's still everything we talked about before.

Right.

What's the status of usmca?

Right.

So depending on how that goes, that could have an impact on 2026.

You know, China, what happens from a geopolitical standpoint that could have an impact.

The state of Europe, the European Union and their trade picture and economies, that can have an impact.

So a lot of, a lot of wild cards out there still.

No doubt.

Adrian, good stuff there.

And we'll, we'll all be wrong, some more than others.

And what we're projecting for 2026, that's for sure and usually it's me wronger than others.

Kevin, your on global trade ebbs and flows.

Well, you know, the big changes make news, but when they start rolling these changes back, it's never on the front page.

So that typically what happens, quote, leaders unquote, want to make the front line of headline news.

So they say things that are outlandish, that capture the public's eye and then when they come to their senses or others bring them to their senses, they have to change or roll back.

It's never on the front page.

It's on the bottom of page three.

Right.

And this is because everything happens in stages.

There's a process.

There's no step change in the world.

Everything is gradual.

So in globalization, I think is the is something that's not going to change.

It's just been too good for the world.

It's been too good for our society.

Yeah.

Two points I would add to what the great stuff you both have shared.

Number one, I had a dear friend from the United Kingdom share this to me when I was in at Safe Picks in Cape Town a year or two ago and he said something I never heard.

He goes when the US Sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold.

I thought that was an interesting analogy that I guess a lot of folks have used this first time I'd ever heard it.

Adrian kind of parallels something you said earlier.

And then secondly, this is where I'd caution and Kevin, you know, you and I had talked about this a good bit in throughout the year, really, all those reassuring announcements that they've rolled out in all different ways, they got to come to fruition.

Right.

And my concern has always been we use those announcements as proof that the overall trade policies that we've seen are working.

And I would just caution everybody until all those jobs get filled, until all those reshored operations are up and running and producing goods.

That's not worth a whole bunch yet.

And we've endured, in my opinion, a whole bunch of friction to get those announcements right now.

But we shall see how it all plays out.

Who knows?

I could be completely not in the know.

Okay, Adrian and Kevin, I want to share a quick message because, Adrian, we're going to dive into some great research you and the team have been doing.

One of the many things you've been doing.

But first, big thanks to our friends, Tevin Taylor.

Tevin E. Taylor.

Sheriff Taylor as like to call him and team over at Pegasus Legend who are powering the buzz all month long in December.

Hey, when your supply chain demands strength and dependability, and don't they all do, you can trust Pegasus to get the job done.

Well, their contract logistics and warehousing solutions provide scale, reliability and execution, all keeping your operations ahead of the proverbial curve.

Whether it's kitting, inventory management, high value storage, nationwide distribution, returns, processing those pesky returns, or complex project rollouts, Pegasus delivers precision, speed, execution every step of the way.

Tevin and the team invite you to discover how Pegasus Logistics Group can strengthen your operation and deliver opportunity for your business.

You can connect with them via the link right there in the comments.

Thank you for that, Tricia.

She is Johnny, on the spot.

I'm telling you, the fastest draw in the.

I'll say the east, not the West.

Keeps us on track.

That's right.

Okay, so as I've been mentioning, Adrian, want to dive into some great recent research that you and the team have been producing here.

The latest one, the state of digitization and Freight Forwarding 2025.

And I've got a couple screenshots there from a really comprehensive piece of research.

I was diving into it early this morning.

So for starters, Adrian, would you give us some background on the research, if you would?

Yeah, sure.

I mean, this was a research project that we collaborated with, you know, Magaya, if you're not familiar with Magaya, they're a leading provider of supply chain logistics software for freight forwarders.

And they had done a study back in 2023 around the state of digitization in the freight forwarding industry and kind of take another look at it.

Like, has the industry moved forward with digitization?

What were the factors that were driving digitization for freight forwarders?

You know, which areas of the business were they prioritizing?

Maybe what were some of the roadblocks and, you know, obstacles in the way of digitization?

So, you know, we created a survey.

We reached out to 71 leading freight forwarders and logistics service providers to kind of help answer those questions.

We also did some research with our Indigo Supply chain research community, which are leading supply chain logistics executives from manufacturing, retail, and distribution companies to get the shipa perspective, right, the customer's perspective on all of this.

So that was kind of the backdrop for that.

And really, you know, came out with a lot of interesting, some things that were very surprising, some things that weren't, but you know, overall, you know, some good and interesting findings that have driven a lot of conversation this past year.

Adrian.

Absolutely.

And folks, you can check it out.

Tricia just added a link right there in the chat.

It's easy to download, you don't have to go through 3,000 fields.

Adrian I really appreciate you and the Magaya team for making it really that easy.

Kevin Before I ask Adrian to kind of expound on one of the key themes, digitization.

KEVIN as the world's foremost digital transformer, I bet it makes your day to hear digitization in the freight industry, huh?

It's all about data, isn't it?

Right?

Understanding that data and more importantly, determining what data is important to your business process.

And I think that's what we're seeing in this study, the importance of data and the fact that companies are really honing in on the important aspects of data.

What's critical to their processes.

Yeah, tidal wave of information is at our fingertips, but we gotta pay attention to the right, yes, the right bits and pieces, right?

What's relevant, what isn't.

It's like the old 6th grade, I'm picking a year 6th grade math problems when they give you like 5000 pieces of information but you only needed 3 to solve the problem.

Well, there's a supply chain analogy there, Adrian One of the key themes that emerged, and I love this, Kevin, it parallels some of the things we've talked about for years.

Shippers are no longer impressed by digital capabilities.

They expect them.

Adrian expound on that.

Yeah, I mean it's, it's, it's really table stakes these days.

You know, when we, as part of the study, like I said, we surveyed the shipper community within our inago community and 90% of them, you know, we said, you know, how important is technology in your evaluation process and your selection process when you're considering working with a freight forwarding, you know, partner.

And 90% of them said that it was either extremely important or very important when evaluating, selecting, you know, freight forwarders.

But then on the flip side, we also asked them, you know, how satisfied are you with the current technology capabilities of your freight forwarders?

And 3 PLs.

And more than a third of the respondents, 38%, said that they were only slightly satisfied or not satisfied at all with the technological capabilities of their freight forwarders.

And, you know, none said that they were extremely, you know, satisfied.

So, you know, I think the implication of the bottom line is clear.

I mean, freight forwarders and logistics service providers that, you know, fail to meet the technology expectations of their, you know, shipper customers, you know, kind of risk losing business moving forward while those that are up, you know, meet or exceed those expectations are, you know, positioned for growth.

Yeah.

Kevin, what'd you hear there from Adrian and some of those key findings that gets your attention there?

Well, the aspect of looking for answers and trying to find those answers in the data following the data, data driven decision making has always been there as like best practice across any industry.

And it's even more important when you're talking about supply chain and freight forwarding.

Just to build on that.

Kevin, real quick, you know, we were talking about, you know, the importance or the need for companies to plan around different scenarios around what, what may or may not happen around usmca.

The fact of the matter is that to make those data driven decisions, as you said, Kevin, you need the data.

And where does that data reside a lot of the times or most of the time, particularly with global trade, with their freight forwarders.

Right.

So they need that data, that visibility, you know, when you're talking about the, you know, cargo owners to really make those decisions.

But they don't have the data.

They need that data.

They need that visibility to drive those decisions.

Yeah.

Adrian and Kevin, I'm stating the obvious here, but you know, we hear real time and it's become almost cliche, but we still have many organizations that are not operating in real time despite the technologies that enables us to do just that.

And when I think of one of the most important things we can do that we've been after since the very first time someone ever uttered the word logistics or supply chain or business for that matter, is make better decisions faster and more confidently.

And where technology is today, as a lot of what you share here in the research, what it points to is we can move in real time and empower that decision making unlike never before here in the golden age of supply chain technology.

And it's an exciting time.

But Adrian and Kevin, to pull out what Jake Barr said earlier on the front end, we can't be a deer in headlights act and change is still tough even when you're moving to a incredible solution that enables some things that we're all talking about.

But it's a leadership test.

Kevin, your final word.

I like the idea being a leadership test.

That's what a leader does, right?

A leader understands what's around the corner and it's the data that tells you what's around the corner.

Adrian, there's so much more here, right?

There's so much more here.

And folks, again Tricia is dropping the link where you can go check it out.

We want to hear from you.

Let us know.

I bet Adrian would love to hear some of the your own take.

Whether you agree or disagree or you name it.

Adrian, anything else you want to call out and this research deserves several hours, we'll have to have you back.

Anything else you want to call out and make sure you tell us how folks can connect with the research and what else is on your research horizon.

Adrian?

Yeah, I mean so, so a few quick things and again, I'm just going to scratch the surface here.

You can read more about it in the, in the report.

But one of the key things we found was that only 23% of the freight forwarders surveyed said that more than 75% of their overall business processes or transactions were, you know, digitized.

Again, 23% said that 75% or more of their processes were digitized.

So the industry still has a long way to go in terms of digitization.

What we did find was there was a difference between large freight forwarders, those that were processing more than 100,000 TEUs per year versus smaller ones.

So the larger ones were more digitized, I think, not surprising in the smaller ones.

Again, a lot to unpack there.

Probably can discuss that at another time.

Secondly, you were talking about this Scott before.

Real time visibility.

Right.

So real time shipping tracking top the list of technological capabilities that the shippers have see the most value from from their freight forwarders and the three PL.

But yet only 23% of freight forwarders, at least the ones that we surveyed, are using real time freight visibility solution.

Right?

So you've got this big mismatch between what the shippers find to be most valuable and what the, you know, three PLs freight forwarders are investing in or have invested in, you know, to provide.

We were almost at a record here we went, I think the entire episode without talking about AI, but I'm gonna break, I'm gonna break that record now.

I'm sorry, I don't know if you were trying to, you know, get through this whole episode without AI, but one of the things that we, we did find because we explored that in the research was that larger freight forwarders were much more likely to invest in AI this year than smaller ones.

You know, overall, 18% of the respondents said that they were very likely to invest in AI this year and 33% said that they were somewhat likely and only 7% said that they were very unlikely.

So I think that's a positive thing.

I think you see the industry kind of exploring this.

Again, you saw a mismatch, different trends between large freight forwarders and smaller ones.

We did some follow up research on this.

This, it was a new.

Another report that was published in the middle of the year called Freight Forwarding at a Crossroads, Preparing for the Road Ahead, where we kind of took some of the results of that, the report we're currently talking about and kind of explored some other questions a little bit more deeply with an eye towards 2026 and for large and small freight forwarders alike, the biggest concern and challenge that the organizations have about AI, what do you think it is?

Cyber, Cybersecurity concerns.

That's a great one.

The answer was lack of internal expertise or understanding.

Right.

So I think this points to, you know, the need for freight forwarders to upskill or reskill their employees and to bring in talent or upskilled employees to have the talent to understand the technology and how it can apply to their business.

So again, all of that was covered in kind of the follow up report, that research report that came to that original one.

You know, I'm not surprised that that dichotomy that you had between the large freight forwarders and the smaller freight forwarders because in order to enable AI, you need that data.

So it's the large companies that have the data that they can implement and use and leverage that data.

And it's the smaller companies that see that as a huge challenge and a huge mountain that they can't overcome.

Well, Kevin, I need to take just a second and look up what a dichotomy means.

But the cool thing is in true democratization fashion, it's the technology is there for organizations of all sizes.

Right?

Yeah.

Small can compete with big and mighty in incredible ways here in 2025 and now soon to be 2026.

But what's the.

So what, here's, here's one of them.

I'd call out Adrian and Kevin because this is right here in the report, you quote an executive that says, quote, we have some logistics partners who have best in class technology while others lag behind with limited visibility and delays in messaging.

We're actively working to rid ourselves of the latter, end quote.

Folks that should be in flashing lights, right?

Your team should talk about that because that's One of the big risks of not leaning into where technology is in 2026.

Really.

All right.

So Kevin and Adrian, Gosh, time has gotten away.

Yeah, I want to make, I need to bring on an atomic clock.

We may go over just a couple of minutes.

Let's see here.

Diana says change management.

That's a good one.

Going back to the question Adrian was asking, change management of technology projects for sure.

And by the way, Raja Shaker, great to see you again via LinkedIn.

Love to hear your thoughts.

Adrian, how can folks want to make sure folks know how they can lean into this other research you produce?

How can they track you down?

ADRIAN Gonzalez Yeah, so probably LinkedIn's probably the easiest.

Right.

So feel free to, you know, find my LinkedIn profile.

Connect there talking logistics, talkinglogistics.com, you can go there, subscribe to our newsletter.

And so those are probably the two ways that most people connect with me.

Outstanding.

And we're going to make it even easier.

You can connect and follow Adrian Gonzalez right there on LinkedIn.

Check that out.

And I bet we'll be dropping some of his other URLs that he mentioned too.

But he's pretty easy to find because he's everywhere I was able to find him.

We're also dropping talking logistics.com right there.

It's one of the place you can check out some great content, so make sure you do that.

All right, Kevin, before we ask you how folks can connect with you, I'm going to take a hard turn one more time.

There's too much to talk about here as we start to wrap up an incredible year, folks.

I got in real time.

We're talking about just that.

A second ago, our team got our hands on a snapshot of Kevin L. Jackson.

No, his real job.

There he is, Kevin.

He's solving interplanetary challenges right there.

Kevin Kidding aside, a lot of folks may not know one of your many stops in your career, your journey was working with NASA on the Pluto New.

Horizon mission to Pluto.

That's right.

Yes.

But really quick when you think about the topic of freight on the final frontier share one recent supply chain development that's on your radar right now.

So actually I'm doing a lot of different things that are connected and one of them is a new institute, Institute for Digital Asset Innovation, where it's using real world asset tokenization to help provide capital to the space economy.

And one of the companies we're working with is called Space Phoenix.

And talk about logistics, their tagline is Space Phoenix is the FedEx for low earth orbit.

So what they are doing is making it easy to use the asset of zero G to produce things like pure crystals for semiconductors or to grow corneas for eyes.

So they are going to have their first launch in 2027.

So we're working with them to provide capital not only where you can invest and get a share of their future profits, but also you can buy a token to get a ride to space.

Really?

Yes.

All right, that's really cool.

I'm going to check out this Baltimore based innovative business, Space Phoenix.

And Tricia, as she has been on the money all buzz long.

Yes, drop a link right there.

And T squared.

Upskilling and reskilling.

That's going to be.

It has been, but it will more emphasis.

Kind of going back to what we're talking about with Adrian earlier.

Organizations are going to have to get even more serious and deliberate and invest in upskilling and reskilling the workforces so that they're in position to find success with emerging innovative and cutting edge, bleeding edge technologies for sure.

Okay, I hate to leave it here.

Kevin L. Jackson, where can we find you?

Yes, you can always find me on LinkedIn or on X @KevinJackson or right here on Supply Chain now.

And Trisha's dropping your LinkedIn right there.

I feel like between Adrian and Kevin, man, if y' all could stick around for another hour, we'll really solve the trade wars.

We'll solve technology challenges.

Y' all are quite the one, two, punch Adrianoids.

Pesky humanoids.

That's right.

Just no batons.

All right, I want to thank first off, really appreciate everybody being with us for the whole year.

Oh my gosh.

We've had some great conversations, great discussions, and I can't wait to move into 2026.

So most importantly, before I thank everybody, hope you all have a wonderful holiday season.

Happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas, happy holidays, happy Kwanzaa, you name it.

I hope you have a wonderful holiday season and a great start to the new year.

I want to thank our special guest, Adrian Gonzalez, president of Adelante scm.

Adrian, thanks so much for being here today.

The pleasure was all mine, Scott.

And great to share the stage with you as well, Kevin.

Yes, thank you.

We're going to have you back soon.

And of course, my esteemed co host, Kevin L. Jackson, when he's not riding rockets out there in lower Earth orbit.

Great to see you here, Kevin.

Yeah, thank you very much.

And happy holidays to everyone.

No doubt.

Big thanks to Amanda, Trisha behind the scenes, making production happen in each and every show.

Big thanks to everybody for joining us again, our global audience for being here with us like Diana and Raja, Shaker and T squared, so many others.

No, we couldn't.

Everybody's comment and question here today, but two things.

So again, happy holidays and happy New Year.

But you know the homework you're getting, you got to take one thing you heard here from Adrian or Kevin, one thing, they had lots of them and put it into practice.

Share it with your team, do something with it.

Deeds, not words.

That's how we're going to keep transforming global supply chain.

With all that said, on behalf of the whole team, Scott Luden, Challenger, you do good.

Give forward, be the change that's needed.

We'll see you next time right back here on Supply Chain now.

Thanks everybody.

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