Awesome. Matt. So if I add an audience list, website visitor list. Hey, thank you, If I add an audience list, website visitor list to feed only. Will it dynamically remarket? So the answer is yes, it will use it as a hard target, but the expansion opportunity will take over from there. It will take over as expansion opportunity. So what this means you've added it as a heart target and I burned through with that audience. Now it's going to cold traffic esque. That audience signal. What that means is it's going to essentially say, Okay, I've looked at this as a remarketing. Once it goes through the remarking though, it doesn't just stop there. It doesn't just say, Okay, now I marketed, and the campaign just kind of goes dormant. or, What it does is it uses six channels to go try to find people that look like that and may succeed and. you can use it, as an asset a signal in an asset group. So yes, it will target those people. But just know that once it burns that audience, it will go completely cold and will not tell you if that audience that is retargeting or. Track as an audience to go after and now is decay and it's got way more impressions and clicks from other areas and it's gonna dive into that. So just know that that is something that will happen regardless. So what Pax essentially does is, let's say search. Dropping YouTube vsb discovery display, finding an audience, and that's the audience signal that you give it. It bursts with that one. It says, Okay, now I'm gonna help all of a sudden spike YouTube and try to find more people. That's why all of a sudden you're wondering why like the YouTube view go from like 2000 to 78,000 in two days because the area that it was finding those users has decayed and now it needs to go and generate its own audience. So just know that that's something that will happen. If you do decide to do that fairly safe, if you added it as a signal inside and as group along with other as groups. So this way, if that one decays and burns out. And you have other campaigns or other assets and signals that are asset groups of signals that are performing well, you'll just see less clicks going to that asset and you can turn it off if you'd like to. Alfred, if you guys were going to do lead gen for real state investors let's see. Julian's helping me out when the cost's gone. Cool. I don't know if Julian doesn't actually become the hosted, but will do it for me, but right now I think it's locked. I can't click on anything. So hopefully that'll work. Hopefully we'll be able to highlight all of your chats soon after Julian leaves. So Julian, if you wanna hop off, let me know. And I'll see if this works. If you were good for real estate investors, would you do PPC to PAX or YouTube? I would absolutely do YouTube and then inbound search, actually. Inbound search, you can still define to an extent the intent, if you're looking at people who are looking to property in a specific area, that is something that can be very good. You can turn on a nationwide campaign, but then also use geographical city names as a keyword and use exact or phrase. I'm in your Nashville, Tennessee, and I might run a nationwide campaign or campaign targeting let's, they like New York, California, some places having kind of a mass exo. That might be something that I'd look to track. So I can bid fairly low CPCs. I'd probably run it, manually so I can control my position. But if I would run, let's say, $3 CPCs for people looking for investment properties in Nashville, Hey, I was trying to do my best doing this by myself, so I'm glad you're here. answer your question, if we were gonna do a lead generation for real estate investors, would you do people cino, pax, or YouTube? I said inbound search and YouTube. And one of the reasons why inbound search, I run an nationwide campaign manual, low CPCs, bid low, and then bid a exactor phrase match on geographical locations. So I was saying I'm in here in Nashville, Tennessee right now, and if I was gonna be doing this for Nashville, I'd look at, New York, California areas that have a high amount of exodus of. areas that are having some either problems, taxes, whatever, may prompt them to move or want to invest into different areas that are more up and coming run a phrase match for investment properties in Nashville I can capture those people that are nationwide looking in Nashville, go outside. It's much less competitive because now you're, wide reaching is gonna keep you in a lot less competitive ecosystem than in the location. So I'd run that first, and then I'd also run YouTube, but also at a very slow burn. YouTube is gonna be, More of a brand awareness. I would actually want to high locations. So don't just be like the whole United States. Do it either by city, by city, or do it by state. By state. Maybe even say, Hey, where am I actually finding pockets of opportunity. Make sure that your call to action is very easy. to jump over that hoop that they have to jump through is very simple. Don't a lot of like a contact form to talk to an investment specialist today for YouTube. YouTube would be like, get access to the list of properties we. Perfect. That demand is gonna say investment properties in Nashville. They can execute on that, and you can follow up with them as you wish. But also on YouTube, if you're saying like, Hey, we have a ton of properties here in. In Nashville, we're adding 10 new investment opportunities. We're updating it frequently to get access to this exclusive list for free. Write your inbox and update it daily. Just, click this, click this link and fill out the information and we'll put you right on the list of, highly accredited investors. People like you, whatever it may be. Make sure that it's an easy hoop to jump through. Don't ask for merit 0.2 frequencies on average to capture a actual conversion. So make sure that it's low hanging enough that if they see two YouTube ads, they're gonna take an action. Is there some kind of synergy if you were to run PPC and YouTube ads for the same lead gen sort of. So most often what you're gonna have is more overlap with a brand name rather than kind of the typical cold traffic keyword. I'll use an example. If you're gonna be doing real estate investors, and you were saying, you have kind of a, tagline that you're always using like, Golden Properties in Nashville. You might have people that are like typing in Golden Properties in Nashville, but you're buy nashville properties.com. You're going to have more people that are gonna be googling your brand name than those cold traffic keywords because they're like, Oh yeah, I remember there was people that do actually can buy these like golden properties in Nashville, like that's gonna stick with them. Whatever sticks with them is what they're gonna Google. What I would make a good habit to do, Just run a brand campaign and a DSA campaign, an observation setting of the people that watch your YouTube ad. So watch the YouTube video as an ad. That's an audience you can create and overlay that in an observation in your brand campaign. Second, run a DSA campaign to your entire website by targeting, The people who saw your YouTube video as an ad Haynes one is gonna observe the people that saw your ad Google the brand name, and the other one is only gonna target the people that saw your YouTube video. Then Google the cold traffic keyword that matched anything on your website. Bam. Yeah. Okay. I see Dave asked last week, John indicated that if standard shopping was producing okay results, consider running feed only Pax alongside it as PAX does more remarketing and standard more cold outbound. Does it apply to restricted categories as well? running standard ETA and some DSA and looking for ways to increase retargeting, thinking of putting 15 to 20% into pmax feet. So if you're already, let's just see in your restricted categories, it depends on the restricted category. but here's what's interesting. If you're running eta change those RSA immediately, you're gonna get 'em just a better ad rank. And Google's already ignoring ETA's. So if you're still running ETA's, absolutely. Switch that over. I've seen like. 40% increase in lethal from changing over an ET as a standard operating procedure regardless, just do that. But if you're looking for ways to increase retargeting, yes, I would run, I would do this. I'd run a feed only PAX campaign. If you have a previous smart chopping campaign, upgrade that to a PAX campaign that actually works a lot better. Than just a standard PAX campaign that's doing feed only. So launch a standard shopping campaign that has been converted to a PAX or convert an old one. Doesn't matter which one, as long as it has some sort of activity in it. Once you convert that into a Performance Max campaign, then strip all the assets out. And if you can't strip all the assets out, which means if it's like. The lease is required. Build a new asset group, elite deal and asset group. That's actually truly a feed only. Turn your expansion off and then use a T rose or TCPA where your standard shopping may not have it, or at least one that's higher than your standard shopping. That will actually help you do a little bit more remarketing, and then it'll see if the search categories will start to give you some cold traffic as well. John Rolo. John asks if you've been asked this before, feel free to skip. What are the differences between Pex feed only and smart shopping campaigns? Or standard shopping campaigns? Does feed only re. All right. Standard shopping campaigns are now shopping campaigns and search campaigns. There's no such thing as just shopping only campaigns anymore. Google forces you to be on the search network as well. That is click to the website and you got one of them. Then they're gone. Meaning if you don't have something to remark them, that campaign will not remarket. So that's what standard shopping does. inbound, click direct Response one, and done a feed only campaign. and a smart shopping campaign are exactly the same. If a smart shopping campaign, if feed only campaign are exactly the same. If you take a smart shopping campaign, upgrade it, then strip out all the assets by either removing them from the asset group, and if you can't, some can't. You have to add a new asset group with nothing in it. Then delete the old ass group, then turn off your expansion. That much turns it back into smart shopping campaign New. Performance max feed only that has not been upgraded from a standard, a smart shopping campaign, you're running an inbound search on DSA and shopping at the same time. And if you have your expansion turn on is basically a wide open entire website DSA campaign, the shopping campaign in one that. Dynamically remarket not only its own traffic, but everything else that you're driving to your site, including social traffic. So that's the differences between those. You can't turn a PAX Feed only campaign into a smart shopping campaign. You can only have a smart shopping campaign that was upgraded and that you keep as a smart shopping campaign. Yeah, by only using zero assets. No. Your expansion Do you think Google will stop feed only Pax kind of defeats the purpose of Pax? No. I don't honestly think it will. The only way that it would do that is if you couldn't develop a new asset group without any assets in it. Google did have that in the beginning. Then they got rid of that. They allowed you to actually create an asset group without. Having any assets in it. the only way you can actually upload an asset group with nothing in it was be a Google Ads editor. And then Google Ads was like, Oh, actually you can start now a, a NASA group without any sort of assets in. So they gave us the ability to run a feed only, which I thought was really weird cuz I would thought the same thing. It kind of should be called the opposite direction. I think they're doing this also because topic safetys are gonna get a little bit haywire. So I think they're just trying to give us all the available opportunities for us to utilize. But that's a little, a little tinfoil hat type of thinking there for me. Any updates? Any updated thoughts on preparing for Black Friday cyber money with free max campaigns? Yeah, I would actually prepare instead of would actually not do that. Yes. Don't do anything. actually, I would use other opportunities for this, I would look at YouTube and discovery. So I say do this for Black Fridays every Monday now, but just know that discovery with feed only, not feed only, I guess, but discovery with a feed, which turns into kind of like feed only. Discovery is now a thing that is actually going to support your Pax campaigns alongside with YouTube warming up traffic. My opinion would be to warm up traffic. Use a title card on your discovery with feeds, Send 'em to landing pages that are more affixed to being, building that hype with new products that are gonna be released soon with the prices coming down, yada, yada, yada. Maybe join a newsletter on that, landing page that you're sending that discovery feed with the, with the card to those pages. But my opinion would be to not necessarily. Do much to your Performance Max campaign. Unless you wanted to a, remove your tcpr t ro as get a little bit more aggressive in your spending, you're gonna start warming up that traffic that's gonna have a low rows first because it might take 2, 3, 4 weeks for them to convert or maybe that they're waiting for Black Friday, Summer Monday. So don't just throw out all the future and warming that traffic up, but get a little more aggressive, warming it up. You can change your asset groups headlines. That is actually something. I have not really seen to be detrimental unless you're running a low spend campaign. So when you're spending like, two, three, $500 a day you can actually change your headlines with are fairly minimal loss. Google's best practice set. Start a new performance map Friday, seven Monday products. But not only until the sale but that's only when the sale goes live. I disagree. I think that's too long to warm up a brand new PEX campaign. I'd rather just change my current. I mean, your headlines and your descriptions are not going to be damning enough to really tank anything. But waiting two, three weeks for a new PMAX campaign show the conversions in the attribution model, like data driven for them to actually be included in that campaign is gonna take some time. Meaning that if you have campaign A, that it's reduced in campaign B, they get start. There's still the same users, so you're getting half the conversions in a row as it looks terrible. It's not scaling as fast unless you wanna switch everything to last click and then switch it back. It's just. Headaches. So my opinion would be to change your current Pmax asset groups fills, or at least like coming soon. But it depends on if you're gonna be sending traffic to a new page that you built, or if you're just trying to warm them up, Start to spend more without a TCP a T raw. Let the campaign learn on some newer traffic. Get them into the, funnel, which means just pixel them essentially. you get the Dynamic marketing user and your E-com product, then start to change your asset groups and then hit it hard. That'd be the, probably the safest bet. Theodore, I have a client with a website similar to Upwork and fiber hiring freelancers, and every time I make a search ad, it gets restricted for employment. Is there something I can do about that? No. I actually lost a client because of this. But Google took a really hard restriction on employment. You cannot target a person based on employment. And not even in your ads. It's actually even on your website. You could still run like we're hiring or keywords and phrases you're not allowed to say on the site that I have not had enough experience to identify them all. So you can't say stuff like we're hiring, but you can say like, work with us on every single page on our website, ever. So go through all your blogs. Like that's one example. So Google won't allow you to target a person based on them being unemployed, and that's up to the discretion on what they think unemployed means. Are you going after them because unemployed and you're offering a job, or are you saying that you need to fill in a spot on your team? But it's nebulous as to the exact word and for your entire website in order to comply. I think it's worth it if Google is just gonna be your only channel, work with your Google rep by saying, I need to change this, but how do I make this sound good? And if you don't have a Google rep, it's a long, hard road for sure. Like I was saying, like I lost client. We couldn't figure it out. It just kept coming back after three months, it just went. It went away on its own after three months and the client actually called me. He's like, Why are we spending so much? I'm like, We're not. What are you talking about? They left the campaign on after they took it back. He's like, we'll hang tight soon. We just shut up and spend, cuz that restriction removed three months later from that website changes and then it came into play. So I don't really even know that campaign started to work, but Google all of a sudden just said, Oh, okay, well this is now finally close enough after three months of no changes. So it's gonna be. Like that you said it's a long, hard road if you don't have a Google rep. Because it's a long, hard road. If you do have a Google at least you feel like you're going somewhere. Bump up up for traffic or take the 10 mile longer route like you're gonna get there the same time. its like you're lonely, but then you get George Art Banks is like a companion and you're like, Oh. Alone. Alone. Ryan, new member. Thanks for being here buddy. Appreciate you. Dave Fogel. I'm messing with Sharp Spring Boo. They have an option for frequency capping and impression pacing. What would you recommend for both? I'm not sure. Inside Sharp Spring. Sharp Spring has to have some sort of ad management software. I bet. Cuz They've actually rolled out their own attribution tool too. Dave SharpSpring sucks. Go to go high level Man, let me just give you a general thumb impression and frequency pacing is based off of your, time lag and your conversion path. it's only thing I can guide you on. And also what your CPA and your, goals are, essentially if you're like, Hey, these people take a month before they convert, Don't set a frequency or impression unless you look at what the typical good performing campaigns, impressions and frequencies are. I couldn't predict how many times a person needs to see and ad before they convert or how long it take to convert. So that's based on how long someone takes to. We would say, this is a good idea. I can't do it the other way around. It's kind of a car before the horse. Unfortunately I don't know that yet. Jet Till asks, have you tried Pex new customer only? How's their performance? I have it four times and I didn't get any better results. And all it did was kill my campaign volume by about 56% on average, if I remember correctly. what I saw is that because we can trick conversions, Google has stated that it won't be able to identify everyone that's new and repeat. Because of technology limitations. They didn't give us a number. Is that 50%? Is it 10%? No one knows. What we have to do is say, Here's my customer. We have a 60% match rate. well, that sucks. And then we have to say, Okay, now how about these people here? Are they new and existing? And they say, Well, based on the 60% match rate, you have 80 new customers. Okay, Well then when we looked them back in and it was like, yeah, 50 new customers, 30 returning. they didn't change anything because Google couldn't. I was exactly a new customer. Whatever your match rate is is going to be how accurate. Hey, I got only 90% returning customers and only 10, it'll help you. But if you're somewhere around the 60 40 split, 70 30 split, I don't think it's actually gonna do anything for you just yet. Theodore says, Congratulations on the marketer. The year award. For those of you that don't know John, we're on third place for marketer the year. Yeah, I did. I think you were four or five votes away on second place. Did you know that? Yeah. And it was his error. Yeah, that pisses me off cuz we've got 80 employees, like five em. Need to get a good talking to. And then Tido also mentioned, John and I are both speaking at Ad World, which we're excited about. Go buy your ad world ticket. Luxury Blade is asking about Ad World being one of the top conferences. I gotta be honest, I think they deliver when you take the amount of value you get for the cost of the ticket, cuz the names, it's the same names you see everywhere. You know what I mean? Ralph Burns, Molly Pittman, Seth Golden, John Moran, you're seeing like real badass marketers all given real badass talks. But it's a fraction of the cost because it's entirely virtual and we're not affiliates. So I'm a big fan of Bad World. Yeah, that's great, Suzanne. Do you think we'll eventually be able to add negative audiences on Pax? Nope. I honestly don't think you ever will. Only because Google is gonna warm up all that traffic in order to convert, and Google's trying to become its own funnel, which means it is going to find impress, gain interest, earn visits, remarket, convert, and then reconvert all within one. and what you're asking Google to do is to take 30% of its efficiency away from something that's designed to do. Google as a whole will not do that. Google will allow certain people to do that. Reps that will do that for you. it's the death of performance Max, honestly, cuz that's what smart shopping was. And so they can't say, Hey, let's warm up all this traffic. And then once they convert, make sure analytics says those direct, they're not gonna do it. Gonna ask specifically about audiences created in GA four. I imagine that doesn't change the answer much. No. GA four's, It's getting closer. it's trying to But I mean, you can't add negative audiences that were created in GA four oh, I see what you're saying. No, no. it's not applicable and even the reps are actually starting to like, push back on. No, they're just not gonna do it. They'll argue with you for an hour. We had this one company that had like such a horrible name. I can't tell their names. I wanna expose them, it was like, let's just call it like a traveling. I don't know what it was called, like traveling. I don't wanna say it too much, but it was two words that together no one would ever say in their life, but then they argue with me, were like, Well, that's a word. So these are both words. So people could sometimes, Google those, try to basically say like, Hey, people would actually type in the word Uber. But not want the car service, cuz that's a word. I'm like, who's gonna type an Uber if they don't know the car service? They're like, Okay. we're just now of a sudden dumbing our fails. Like that's a good exercise. Google. Thanks Got it. Am Judd asks, How do you reckon the people who brows websites similar to custom segment works? What Google usually does is kind of take what they call latent semantic indexing and understands the theme of that website so that it also corresponds with the themes of other websites. So categories, generalizations, outdoor equipment, hiking, tents, camping, those things. don't get too granular with it, but if you're looking at people who visit websites similar to, let's say Bed Bath and Beyond. Interested in home good and closest you're gonna get, not be like, Oh, people that are looking for like, sheets on that web. Nope. Just people that visit that website also have interested in like, wanting to buy something for their home and or bedroom and or a bath. but don't go too crazy with it. My Google rep looked at me funny when I told her I set up a feed only asset group and nothing else And then when you say that you're getting a, average ad score of good that is also really funny. They're like, Hey, my ad rigs good and I don't have an ad in there. They're like, I don't know what you did It's so soul. Is this I'm Jet. Recommended audience signals for PMAX when selling a product that's new and unknown by many. A drop shipping product, for example. Right on. Recommended audience signals for pmax when selling. Yeah. What do you do when nobody knows the product exists? It's awareness book. Don't go to pax. heavily inbound. Yeah, I was gonna try. As many content pivots from shopping and search, you're not gonna be able to control much. if it was, I would do YouTube and discovery feeds and discovery by tweeting this right now. I like that. Yeah. you're basically gonna tell Google is, Hey, you have no audiences for this. You've never seen this before and you don't even know what it. Maximize conversions. So funny. Conversions. Who spend your money for sure. Saba. Saba in pmax slash lead gen, if the budget is not generous to allocate for pmax, is it okay to group multiple signals in the same campaign? Or so, Lead gen campaign. Yeah, Lead gen campaign. Well, and Saba, I think I might misunderstand the question here, because the PAX is separated by asset groups. So you're gonna have multiple signals in one campaign, but the signals are separated by asset groups. Right. Are you asking, are we bundling signals by asset groups or John, do you Something I don't hear. No, I I can see it. The only thing that you're gonna find out too is with the different asset groups, your insights tabs are just gonna kind of tell you what end up being matched. Now over a week, over week though, going to take place is not necessarily simply because there's a different signal, but there's a massive overlap in those signals and whichever asset group was simply chosen at the time, Durst to be captured is going to show. So for example, if I have two different audiences, there is an overlap between those two different a. A lot of times very consistently. So let's use our constants. People that are interested in, lead generation dentistry or like people that are interested x-rays and dental cleaning. Like those are dental x-rays and dental cleaning. Cool. So now we have dental x-ray, dental cleaning. Take those people and say 99% of the time, the same. Okay, so now that we know that to be the case, when you look at your insights, you'll see like, hey, that one search category matched to 17 asset groups. Why? Because it's all the same. Everybody qualified. That's what they're saying. Doesn't mean that it was that that asset group one that is what was qualified for. Does it dictate? it's inbound search, there's not much that's being dictated. What you're basically saying is, which RSA on an inbound search, It's not pmax, it's not asset groups. It's now basically been whittled down to inbound search in which RSA won inside that asset group. Was it based on Signal? Not really. They're too much overlapping, but into the other asset group, was that a amazing moment? No, it's just they chose that ad group as said, like why would they choose, one combination of headlines versus a different combination of headlines. That kind of what it boils down to. for Pax Lead generation, I usually. Just bundle everything in the one as the flow of traffic through there is not segmented at all. It's about 99% overlap between them all. And if you had like 10 asset groups, I would challenge you to find an asset group that has. Nine or eight or less. When you have a search category, it's gonna be nine or it's gonna be 10. Then when you click on that ask group, you're gonna find out which did it come in from, track that week over week, and if that changes, just know that everything's kind of being grouped into one. Garrett, what are your thoughts on the new automatically created assets update in Google ads? I. Mind it too much just because, and Kurt and I are good. LinkedIn Buddie. He's, he's awesome. we go back and forth with strategies. He was the one that actually said like, Hey, get your rep to actually add a negative keyword list to Pmax, and then you control the, as or the keywords inside that negative list. It's already a tie. Oh, the list can be dynamic. Well, yeah. So instead of going to Google and be like, Can you please add these five keywords to this Performance Max campaign? It goes have Google take the negative keyword word list and then apply it to your Performance Max campaign. Then you add and remove the keyword. And I was like, that's live Tweeting for sure. Oh, for sure. Shout out. He's awesome. we wrap back a plastic. Gary, you need to start a YouTube channel. drop your Twitter handle into here. Is it just Garrett Grut? I'm assuming it is. Yeah. But Awesome, awesome. Very smart person, but I don't mind the automatically generated create reason why is I haven't found. Those type of situations to be detrimental. I know that you and I were talking about this on LinkedIn where we're like, Great, now we're gonna have to let the client know why the not approved assets are actually in live inside their accounts. I did a little bit of digging and was kind of looking through a fairly thoroughly. When there's a page that is from a URL expansion, what Google has said essentially does says, Okay, what's your ad copy? My ad copy is, we do Google ads. It's the only thing that we do, and Google Ads is the best. But then we have a blog on. And so your expansion on sends person that Googled Facebook versus Google and it goes to our Facebook blog that we have. Well, they don't wanna use the ad copy of, We do Google ads. Google Ads. The only thing we do, and we do Google, they want to have it. Like, what's the difference between Google ads and Facebook? Like, it's essentially pulling in the dynamic headlines and descriptions and assets and, and imagery from that page in order to make sure that if they're gonna send you to a. Different than what's in your asset group. At least the headlines makes about 2% of the time. So I was okay with it, but unless you're seeing something different, I haven't really seen much differences in my landing page. Counts I guess instead of my, reports. Aaron, I have a service based company that does massage. I have Swedish massage, deep tissue massage, and couple massage and gift certificates online. Should I do Pex with three? These three services? I'll give you the answer if we can. Barger John Once. Deep tissue massage Oh yeah. So my opinion. If you're looking at local, I would honestly do search first. Have we tried PAXs New Local at all? Has anybody tested that? We don't really have local clients. Caden's, Caden's trying to hack it. of course, is. he's doing like, where it's like just GMB, And I was like, Oh, that's brilliant. But then he died, knew. That's genius. I know, right? so far what we've been able to see and I predicted this on like three weeks ago, or whatever it was I think local's dead they, they didn't, include local inside of performance. Max. Once Max decided like a local campaign, they basically was like, Okay, cool. So here's your location extension into p. I think they just pretty much got rid of local like you, but they have local specific conversion actions driving directions and that's what I'm saying, like you just got, you gotta look a location extension of Google My business that local was running on. So sort of as like you have all that. Inside of Pmax now where you also have YouTube GSP discovery display search, it's now just attacking everything where it's like, Hey, I just really went run a local campaign. It's like, nope. Been in another keyword on search now too. It's like, shit, I don't need all that. It's weird. It's so inconsistent because they took smart shopping and put it in pmax. They took DSA and put it in Pmax. You think they take local and put it in Pmax, but instead they just killed it and gave us some of the local feature. Yeah, that's pretty much it. Like the local by itself was not anything spectacular. It was really just a good map campaign. It's like old school Google Map campaigns. So they basically just added that to Performance Max. That's all they did. I would say go search. The problem that I would say is, yes, if you had the big enough budget and six months, and let this thing really learn and grow and gain as much user base as you can. Then absolutely run it. If you're like, Hey, I can't really spend more than like 5K per month and I wanna be very specific, I still go search broad with tcpa. So it's way you can at least not overspend and, but still be themed correctly. Like you might be bidding on like local Swedish massage and some of 'em might be like, you know, Swedish massage Near Me. Even phrase match would capture that. Using a TCPA is gonna control your costs. That is a few weeks to kinda learn, but I think that the problem is with local campaigns and how performance Max, it's what I was saying in the beginning. I don't think you're actually here for it. If I have six channels and I'm learning local, Majority of your inbound conversions are gonna come from search. That's just usually where Pmax goes. Just foremost. Once that's Restasis or if that demand drops a bit or what you show up for drops a bit because a conf competitor came in and started up upping its bids. It says, Well, forget up display YouTube. Exactly. It's like, well, I'm gonna. Spend the daily budget, just not where you needed to go, quick departure that I think is valuable. I did an interview with Patrick Gilbert, Adventure ppc. You know Isaac Rodan. Yeah, his agency. So Patrick's his coo, freaking brilliant dude, bro. We got a video coming out on our YouTube channel with him, but he's got, I forget the name of his associate. He's got somebody that works with him that the analogy he gave with Pax it's actually the exact same thing that happened in the Big short with the mortgage tranches. So they took all these bullshit loans, And they bundled them together and then they sold 'em to people. And so Google took all this bullshit traffic and they bundled it together and like hidden within the bullshit traffic is like some good traffic. So you do, you'll get a conversion, you'll get a call, but they're like, it's like Ponzi scheming traffic. But it's, I don't know, man. I just thought that was like such a phenomenal way to look at it. It's exactly what's happening with. know why I have to, give Google credit though, because their stupid strategy, they just automated. They're like, More clicks equals more traffic equals more conversions. It's like not on display, but like Yes it does. We'll see I know. We'll test it with your money. Know it's like, well, how many conversions did I get? You got seven. Where'd they come from? Could have been displayed Guess. It definitely was a church like. It's so funny. I'm Judd Google automatically creating assets for you based on your website content. Seems like such a win. What could be the possible cons of this? From what I understand, we can add assets in Google, fill in the gaps, so it seems like a win-win to me. Thoughts? Yeah. Agencies are gonna have a bigger problem than this, than anything else. Like Ace, like we have to build like a spreadsheet that gets approved by the product manager that gets approved by the marketing team, the sales team, the higher ups. And then we finally get to use that, then three days later we get an email that says, John, why do I see an ad that was not approved by the six members of our team? And I gotta be like, Well, it's not Under our control anymore, and it's like, hmm. That's where we usually kind of get the, pushback, that's like they must be just messing up in lying to us. That's the bad part. The good part is, yeah, it should be fine. There's not a really big issue with it. It usually uses your website data anyway to guide itself. So if you hate your website, you're gonna hate the automatically created assets, but really. I was gonna say, if you hate your website, you shouldn't be driving traffic to your website anyway. Exactly. Cory, lend home lots of Amazon advertisers trying to get clients to use Google ads to send traffic to Amazon with its newish referral bonus program. Would love to hear your thoughts on this. Yeah, Amazon advertisers is trying to get clients to use Google ads to send traffic to, I don't know what the June referral bonus program is. Do you know what that is? Kasum? I have no idea. I haven't heard of that. Didn't Amazon sunset their attribution product? Like they were trying to give us attribution at one point and then they were like, We quit. Screw it. it's still working. I mean, it's really lackluster. it's almost like a click on that ad. Yes. 237 times What? I sold two. Why? That's it. These people click, Do we want what they buy? Oh, no no clue. Right. So it's basically just a link. Click to conversion. So Corey, if you can let me know what the June referral bonus program is thoughts on it, but I'm not sure what that is. I know that way you do send traffic to Amazon to increase organic rank, but doesn't sound like the June referral, bonus program, Evan. using Pax Shopify Syms to add users to an audience. I don't know what Syms is. Are there any other tools for tracking that should be used? Or is the Shopify Google API enough? Should server side and GTM need to be set up? Server side GTM compared to the Shopify. and I think that you're saying the, the tracking. Oh, sys is just feed management. It's just data management for e-commerce. Yeah. Now when you're saying tools for tracking that should be used or is it Shopify, Google API enough? Are we talking about users like dynamic re marketing? Are we talking about attribution? Tracking conversions. Yeah, let me know. Said tracking. Tracking. What? I wanna make sure cuz the shopping API connection will actually transfer back to you user data. And I think that's what you're talking about when you're saying service side gtm, but you can also have service side GTM for conversions. So let me know what you're, thinking there. Corey says that Amazon's offering a 10% bonus of the sales price on sales generated from non-Amazon marketing effort. Oh God, that looks, That's kinda insane, dude. That's like traffic arbitrage. Well that just looks like a brand nightmare. I was just gonna say that like brand nightmare for everybody but us. We should do this. No, we shouldn't totally do that. No, this is a bad idea. Corey, I won't call you later. What can you say about the update for YouTube targeting, getting off of custom targeting? What does that mean? I don't know what that means. Gly, we use custom targeting all the time. Yeah. Gently give us more context and then we'll come back to you. If you're doing campaign management for competitive SaaS, high CPCs, I'm talking 13, 14 cetera, what bidding strategies do you suggest? I would actually still run manual until you finish this one cycle. Then go into automated bidding strategy, depending upon the LTV of the cycle. And here's a cycle your. Marketing for SAS sass are gonna have a conversion rate between who did and who did not complete the free trial and become a signup user. That signup user is worth way more than the cpa, the free trial. So knowing what the campaign that actually generated the converted free trial users, that campaign is made. And if you're spending enough time having high enough frequency, Where the CPA is of the free trial, actually mark that as a secondary, but your primary conversion action should be the free trial user that turned into a subscription. So pay subscription, the pay subscription user, depending upon what that's coming in at. Use a maximized conversions, and then throttle that by T cpa. Be very careful though, because the point of. From point of conversion is so far gone that you're gonna be like, Hey, remember two months ago Google when you brought that person here? Don't do that again. So you're working in two months cycles at an automated bidding strategy. Something done on day one and wait 60 days to have it be correlated over here, but maximize conversions will just get super aggressive for all the people that turned into those conversions and those people that look like them. So my opinion would be run manual equally depending upon your campaign hierarchy. Find out what brings you not only. Amount of conversions, but a most amount of conversions that turns into a cpa. But a higher conversion rate means a lower cap potentially. So once you import that from clicks, from the people that actually convert it into a free trial or, into a paying user, then say, Okay, where did that come from? And then if you have enough, more than like 20 a week, then use that as your primary conversion action. Certain try to maximize conversions and then reduce spend everywhere reallocate to that campaign and go Suzanne, do you have a preference on conversion tracking, adding the codes to the site or importing from analytics? Absolutely. Good with type manager. Adding it to the site. Importing from analytics will. Lose about 40 ish percent of your conversions on average. The last click, same day conversions. So if you have a person that Google can't identify coming to the direct traffic one day, it's like, Well, I came directly this site. Google Ads does not get any credit. Don't send their analytic conversion to Google. That was direct. Well, where'd they come from? Oh yeah, they had a Google ads like three days ago. Reading that. Late on breaks. What a great name. Any ideas on strategy for B2B service that's local and somewhat emergency based? Managed it on a low four digit budget. We actually have that exact client B2B service that's. Local and emergency based. What's emergency based? And b2b, I don't think B2B emergency though. They actually might not be with us anymore because they sold their business. They were here in town. They were a young couple. What industry they do emergency it. So it's like if, all of a sudden your servers blow up or whatever, they will sprint the hell down there. Yeah, I can see that. So B2B Doesn't need to be b2b. If the search terms are B2B enough, I would say like, server room on fire. well you don't have a server room in your house, But if you're like, Hey, I only do plumbing emergencies for commercial real estate, that's not gonna happen. Right. There's gonna be like plumber now. we're just going exact Matt's search here, right? It. Well, I would say that, but I would actually do long tail broad. So for example, low four digit, it's like two K per month and we're competing against other plastic surgeons in Chicago and we're getting $80 CPAs and $3 CPCs cuz we're doing long tail Broad. you're just gonna increase the cost needlessly long tail broad is gonna give you potentially the same search traffic, but at a decreased. And you get the oddities and that's the only way this is gonna work. Cause if you're looking at like a Dave's $14 as a high cpc, I agree like some CPCs are like one 50 but it's high enough if you have a thousand dollar per day budget or a thousand dollar per month budget because that's what, $33 a day and $14, you get two clicks. So what I normally will see is if you can do long tail broad. It'll allow you to get the oddities at much, much, much cheaper. So for example, this plastic surgeon in Chicago I'm gonna use this term that they're not doing and can't take of what we're doing with them. But let's just say we're talking about like eyelash extensions. We're not, but that can be something. It'd be cost of lengthening my eyelashes, $2 click, one click, one impression, one conversion, $2 conversion. I'm like, woo, you know, easy. I didn't have to bid for. Per, eyelash, $40 cost per click to be number one. I got the long tail of someone that was looking for a cost and actually scheduled an appointment. I'm not saying that happens every time, but I don't know a way to get competitive without doing it that way, honestly. So hopefully that works. David Leon. Do you find too many people focus on ad setup and one time sales versus longer term? Bottom line enhancers, like increasing, OV a focus on an ltv, email marketing, omnichannel, diversification, et cetera. Every time David, every time Well, here's the thing is they usually come with a, they come on board with those type goals. Even during the sales process, we investigate the other part, and a lot of times it's not only that they have a bad ltv, but they can't have a good l. Like there's some expensive kind of niche products that people are only gonna buy once every 10 years. That's why mattresses cost two grand. If they bought a mattress every three months, those things would be 250 bucks. But they make all their money cuz then they're not gonna buy on for another 10 years. So same thing like that, those type of industries. Yeah, if we usually don't take on clients that if they have like a low AOV and we can't increase AOV and they're not gonna develop any new products and they only really want that, and then they have a really bad profit margin, then we usually just can't take 'em on as a client. It's going to fail. It's not a matter of if, but when, We usually find that if you have a halfway decent good, halfway decent aov, high competition, no LTV bad, you're gonna pay for the traffic. It's simple math, like we all learn this in first grade, but then half is ignore it for some reason that you can't spend more money than you make on a sale. And it's a competitive ecosystem. So you can't buy the Ferrari if you're max bid at auto auction, $6 not gonna happen. It's just, we just have to look at and invest. Can we, How can we, What have you done before? What have worked? Would we be able to, do we have resource, too? Then we usually take 'em out as a client if all those align a to. Hey guys, I have a question. I have a client with local business flowers. I'm mainly using only search campaigns. Any reason to try pax? Yeah, so Pax, and if you say local business, if your conversion is in store traffic, or online sales? I'll give two different answers. If it's in store traffic, you're going to have better luck with Pax, but you're not gonna be able to track it. it's online, definitely pax if you say I need to track it or I'm hired to track it, search and then run calls. So call extension and then make. Record calls, but it really depends. It says, Hey, we're right down the street from you. You're not gonna be able to track anything really. I mean, you'll get some calls, but your in store might be way better. But knowing that usually pmax is much wider reaching, especially local. So it's like if you had search app, YouTube, gsp, Discover display, oh, within 10 miles you're gonna do better than just search for sure. But if you need to track it, like, no, no, no, I need to track and, that type of really, what were the search terms used exactly on this day? Maybe search might be better, but I still would recommend Pax. If you can sacrifice some clear data, you'll have a better reach. Dawn, if our top selling item accounts for 36% of all sales, the next four top seller, 17%, and the next 40 items, 15%, should I put all the products into one pmax with one asset group feed only? Something down that may have already done, and I can't tell if you have or not from this comment, but it is extremely important. Selling item accounts for, or items account for 36% of all sales. Is that from Google or is that from e-commerce and analytics? Those are two different metrics. What I mean is that if your top selling item accounts for 36% of all sales, does that mean that 36% of Google has convergent to. Product and if so was that product actually sold. Google is going to force more people into a product click that leads to all sales of all products, not clicking on that ad and buying product B. very, very, very, very important. Corrupt a flow that you can't see inside of Google. If product A earns a click and they buy product B, product A looks like it's sold in. Because it says that was the a click that led to a conversion with a conversion value. If you look at analytics, go your conversions, E-commerce product performance and overlay the campaign ideas, the secondary parameter. And you see that that campaign ID is also selling 36% of that same product then yes, I would split 'em. But if it says, Hey, sometimes 20 on that product, actually buy something else, then you can't split it out. Not yet anyway, until we know why. a lot of times you'll split it out and you realize everything went down and then you put back together and everything goes up. It's just because people are just, Google's forcing that ad and then people are buying everything else on your site. Dave, did you decide what the correct paid search fraud number after reading that ICJ Journal? Yeah, it's in the journal, Dave. It's, the report is, it's anywhere between 20% and like 37%. But it really compelling article, if people haven't read it, it's in our YouTube Thing is we actually give you 30% better Roaz, Dude, it's, crazy. There's a company out of Israel, a uh, data security company, check.ai, massive billion dollar valuation. So they're not small people. They went through and did an analysis across all their clients, thousands of clients on the amount of traffic that's actually fraudulent. Here's the part that pisses me off. The way that you check for fraudulent traffic is not. They have all these multi variant little tests. Like one of them is, does the cursor go directly from point A to point B or is there, a human intervention that the little, little, little, little things, but they're able to, determine within like close to like 99.99% efficacy, whether or not traffic is fraudulent. And they're saying 40% of all the traffic is fraudulent. And I'm just like, Why, dude? And they have a billion dollar valuation. Google has a $1.4 trillion valuation or whatever. It ends up being they could do that, but they don't. And it's shocking to me. basically saying is, Hey, do you wanna lose 40% of your That's exactly right. I do it. I don't even think it's the av, it's the revenue that bugs them. I think what they're afraid of is the minute they actually stop this bot traffic, everybody's data's gonna. You know, the number of impressions or ctr, like all that's gonna go to hell in a hand basket. So I actually think Google could eat. The funds because on a long enough timeline, this is an antitrust suit. And I should be careful saying that cuz I don't want Google to go, eat my lunch. But like, what else could it be? There's tens of thousands of advertisers that have paid for traffic that is now being proven fraudulent. And Google's sitting there just like continuing to send this shit down the stream. It's like when a prosecutor gets busted for like planting evidence in a case and it's like, well now every case you've ever worked on is, has to be reviewed, right? All of a sudden Google's like, Not only would all of our traffic go down 40%, I'd also have a mass exodus of people that are willing to leave, and then when I get a whole bunch of people to ever say like, Well, can I get my refund? It would be the death of Google to admit that. That's, it's interesting man, cuz I don't see a way of this for them. What is it that the chickens are coming home to roost, All they did is just move their house. Yeah, I think, what Google's gonna do is try to silently figure out a way to combat this and then just deny it the whole. Dreading papers and burning evidence and like, no, no, no, no, no. That never happened. Like, we gotta figure this out quick. Fire in my server. Farm. Look at that. We're regenerating traffic. Sean, what are your thoughts on XR advertising? I don't know what XR advertising is. I don't know. Yeah, let us know what that is. Sean, forgive us. Neither of us went to college. Corey, Thoughts on client management around this? If a client wants to send, and what Corey's referring to, by the way, is sending traffic directly to Amazon. What do you do? If the client wants to man, I need more information. We've lost every client we've ever done that for. You realize that? Cause we've had a bunch of clients that Oh yeah. If it's exclusively that we've had a bunch of clients like, Oh, just drive it to Amazon, it's fine. We totally understand. We'll give you the conversion lift. And over a, a long enough period of time, they always fire us. if a client wants to, Well that's what I'm wondering is like, is the client wanting to go. Try to build campaigns around getting the 10% referral? Or is this, I, I'm not sure when you say client that want something on Amazon. Yeah. Why would the client wanna drive their own drive to their own website to get their own temp back? I guess I'm not sure what the benefit would be. Why would client would wanna do that? Yeah. Tell us what you mean. Corey. We've got two minutes. Here we. Been running YouTube tofu ads for the new product I spoke about earlier on Facebook. The same videos work really well. YouTube, NAA and Google has InMarket audiences highly specific to the product too I've been running YouTube tofu ads for the new product I spoke about earlier. Okay. On Facebook, the same video works really well on YouTube not, and YouTube has in, how are you measuring YouTube specifically? YouTube is not necessarily. Click based, and if you're looking to say, Hey, there's then 10,000 people that saw the ad and only five clicked on it, but there's 350 other people that saw the ad and converted remember The Facebook works well because they're counting views and clicks, still counting views and clicks on YouTube. Then it's gonna look bad because you can't count a person that saw an ad five times, then Google the brand name and clicked on it organically and only give that to Facebook, but not give that same credit to YouTube if you're not, When I say credit, I mean like, don't just assume that's happening, but investigate that and say, I've actually looked the direct by isolating both channels, the direct traffic back from it. I'm also run a brand campaign of people that saw my ad on YouTube. They Google my brand name and I can see the overlap of that observation audience from people that watch my YouTube ADSD specifically. So what steps have you done to proven that? Not is what I would be curious of cuz if YouTube, Yeah, it sucks. my cost for conversion for us is $4,000 for solutions eight. But how many leads do we get in the last seven days, dude, And some of the best leads we've ever. Like it's maybe capturing 10% of what we're actually getting.