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[00:00:17] The Missional Life: All right. Welcome back to mission live podcast today. We have Darren shearer on the show. Darren is the founder and director of the theology of business Institute, as well as the founder and CEO of high bridge books and media.

[00:00:28] The Missional Life: He's also the author of multiple books, including the Christ centered company, marketing like Jesus and the marketplace, Christian Darren, welcome to the show. Welcome.

[00:00:38] Darren Shearer: Thanks for having me, Dan and Amanda. I'm excited to come on with you today.

[00:00:41] The Missional Life: Yeah. Yeah. We're excited to have you. Hey Darren, let's start here. Many of us have heard it said Sunday is for church and the rest of the week is for my business. We know that's not your perspective. So for the Christian business person out there, what are some foundational ways they can begin to infuse their faith into their business practices?

[00:00:59] Darren Shearer: Yeah, I really had a paradigm shift back when I was serving in the U. S. Air Force, and I was in the base when I go do some volunteer work with my local church. I grew up as a preacher's kid and kind of had this mindset that if it's real ministry, it's happening kind of in a church type program. But on that particular day, the Lord really spoke to my heart.

[00:01:25] Darren Shearer: Heart as I was leaving the base and said, this base is your ministry. And so that was a real paradigm shift for me and recognizing that the great commission is to go make disciples. Where are you going to do that? It's going to be where the people are. Right. And so for 85 percent of us, that's in a for profit business.

[00:01:46] Darren Shearer: And, and, and for a hundred percent of us, those of us who, who are, Working. It's at work. Whether you're working in a, a church program, you know, you're working in, on the mission field overseas, you're in hospitals or you're in a, in a business. The, the calling is to go and. make disciples. And so I think it has to start with that mindset that what we're really called to do is not to just make money to put it into the offering plate or give to quote unquote real ministry, but we're all called to make disciples wherever the Lord has, has assigned us.

[00:02:25] The Missional Life: So for you, that has become an author and into business. How did you go from, where God spoke to you there in the the military base then to author, can you take us through some of that journey?

[00:02:37] Darren Shearer: Yeah. So after the Lord really gave me that revelation that his heart for me was that I would be engaged in ministry right there where I was spending most of my time instead of all manic. I can't wait to get off work so I can go do street evangelism or I can go, you know, serve in the young adults group.

[00:03:00] Darren Shearer: At my church. But I started to just look for more opportunities to to reach out to those around me and and and move those conversations into, you know, deeper. Conversations than just the surface level of let's talk about sports or let's talk, talk shop, but let's talk about how, you know, what's really going on in your life.

[00:03:26] Darren Shearer: And one of the things that came out of that was started a a Bible study at the officer's club there on the base and the chaplain Got involved and people from all different units across the base and the scriptures together and pray together and really just kind of establish a beachhead of of of God's people there on that, on that base. And. And so that was, I guess, one of the first things that, that transpired from that I did sense that the Lord had called me into a not necessarily a pulpit ministry, but that he was going to, he had called me to be an equipper and to help engage his people in ministry but that that was going to be in a, in Primarily marketplace context, but to get a better theological foundation, I did go to seminary right after the Air Force, and then I went to business school and what I had left on the, the GI Bill, and it was, it was toward the end of business school that, I was living in New York City there in upper Manhattan.

[00:04:34] Darren Shearer: There's a bridge called the high bridge with my company's name is high bridge books. And it was built as a aqueduct to bring water into the city back in the mid 1800s. It's the oldest bridge in all of New York city. And the Lord just really put on my heart that this company would be like an aqueduct to bring life giving stories and messages to people.

[00:04:55] Darren Shearer: And so that's what we've been doing over the last 10, 11 years. We've got, we've now got, I think, 205 books on our contract and those books have really been making an impact in the lives of people.

[00:05:09] The Missional Life: Wow. You know, one of the books that you wrote is the marketplace Christian, a practical guide to use your spiritual gifts in business. And that really struck me as a really powerful book because, you Kind of put our spiritual gifts aside. When we go, you know, Monday through Friday, although , they're in operation, we don't always have the opportunity to use them on a Monday through Friday basis.

[00:05:36] The Missional Life: So I was really curious about that. For a business owner, that's beginning or a person who's interested in business and is thinking, God, I feel like you're, you're stirring my heart towards A business, something that I can do to, you know, provide for my family, but also build the kingdom.

[00:05:54] The Missional Life: What are some different ways that they can begin to look and self evaluate their, their spiritual gifts and then bring those into a future business?

[00:06:01] Darren Shearer: Yeah, part of what motivated me to write that book on the theme of using spiritual gifts in a for profit setting is typically when a spiritual gifts assessment is when you're invited to take an assessment like that is typically at your church and the goal that the pastor has in having you take that is not so much to figure out, you know, how are you going to use these gifts in your everyday life, but how are you going to use these gifts in a In our church in, in our church programs, you know, so if you score high in hospitality, you maybe you need to be a greeter if you score high you know, that pastors love when you score high in service or helps, you know, because, you know, we need the help, right.

[00:06:44] Darren Shearer: And, and our local, and we definitely need to. To be giving, you know, financially giving of our, of our time, talent, and treasure to our, our local body of believers in, in that particular 501c3 physical location where we, where we really ought to connect on Sunday morning or maybe that's in a house. I know there's a lot of house churches in Greece and, but, but what we really need to start to do is to turn the corner and figure out how, how is God calling me to use, for example, administration in my everyday life? Cause that's one of the spiritual gifts that Paul talks about. And the conventional thinking is, well, you're using a gift of administration.

[00:07:31] Darren Shearer: If you're helping to count, the offering, or if you're helping to count attendance or, you know, you're working as a church secretary or something like that, because it, it, it's directly, you can see the direct line of connection between your ministry and the ministry of your local church. But what's not so obvious is how are those gifts?

[00:07:54] Darren Shearer: How are you using those in your everyday life? And so, for example, mine is, one of mine is administration. And I use administration every day. And what is administration? Well, I mean, I think the, the Lord demonstrates that at creation because the earth, the universe was formless and void. Everything was formless and void, but administration brings order out of chaos.

[00:08:20] Darren Shearer: And so in the marketplace, in the workplace, whatever your workplace happens to be, there's an opportunity to use a gift of administration to bring order out of the chaos to make. People's lives easier and, and just kind of de stress the, the situation for people. And so that's just one example of. How the spiritual gifts it's for me.

[00:08:43] Darren Shearer: It's not such a question of how do you bring your spiritual gifts to work? But How do you recognize that these are gifts that the spirit is given to you for? Ministry in your workplace because you're you're already using them The the problem is when the when the lord is not getting the glory for using those gifts and so for a believer any Ability that we have that we are using for his glory is going to be a spiritual gift.

[00:09:13] Darren Shearer: And I really believe that.

[00:09:14] The Missional Life: Wow. So good. So as we get into more business, what are some ways that The Christian business person is missing, missing it a little bit more. And so what I mean by that is, you know, oftentimes we think, Oh, they're a Christian business because they have a fish on their business card.

[00:09:32] The Missional Life: And so what are some different ways that Christian business people can begin to distinguish themselves among other businesses? Can you speak to that?

[00:09:43] Darren Shearer: Yeah. In this new book that I published last year called the Christ Center Company, I talk about 37 biblical business habits. And, and the first habit I think we'll, we'll, we'll provide an answer to that question. And it is to recognize that Jesus is on the receiving end of everything you do in business.

[00:10:02] Darren Shearer: And, and so there's sometimes as Christians, we can think, well, I can treat this person one way, but I'm actually treating God a different way. Or I'm relating to God in this way, but you know, people, that's a different story. I, I I can somehow. be discouraging to another person, or I can just not live in a, a, a emotionally or socially intelligent way toward this person.

[00:10:33] Darren Shearer: And, but I'm actually treating that me and God are good, even though me and that person are not good. And that's, then the scripture doesn't, doesn't teach that. You know, for example, if you've done it to the least of these, you've done it to me. If you haven't done it to the least of these, you haven't done it to me.

[00:10:48] Darren Shearer: And so I encourage business people to recognize that Jesus is on the receiving end of everything you do in business. So he's not just the CEO or the chairman of the board, but he's actually your coworker. He's actually that contractor that you can easily take for granted, you know, and I I was just talking with my team.

[00:11:08] Darren Shearer: We have a weekly team meeting and we're talking this morning about, you know, there's a couple of contractors that work overseas that we, That we have never actually seen face to face, at least over zoom. And the Lord just convicted me about that because the way you're treating this person is the way you're relating to me.

[00:11:28] Darren Shearer: And, and so I would hate that they would, this person would feel like they're just sort of a cog in a wheel. And, and, and that we don't actually know who they are as a person deep down. But so we've, we've reached out and said, Hey, we need to have a face to face. We want to get to know you. You're really into it and we want to know your family. We want to know, you know, Just some of what's going on in your life and and so Those those people I think we've got to see the face of jesus in everybody that we engage with the our customers like I said our co workers our vendors everybody in business is an opportunity to To bring worship to the lord by how we relate to that person

[00:12:15] The Missional Life: Yeah, and as you were talking, what I kept hearing was, , really just showing people they have value and worth by asking the questions by getting to know their story, you know, as much as you can, whether it's a brief interaction, you're not going to get Too much. But if it's a longer term relationship with a contractor, , there's more opportunity to build that relationship and then vice versa, them to get to know you and well, how are you so peaceful during a stressful situation?

[00:12:43] The Missional Life: Well, funny, you should ask that question. You know, I actually trust in the Lord for all the decisions. and those conversations can then just naturally stem, , as you said, as you get to know people, but I really like what you said about getting to know the people you're working with and really just seeing them all as Jesus, because, , that is adding that value onto each person and that makes a huge difference in any company culture.

[00:13:09] Darren Shearer: Yes. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I, I was just at a men's retreat this past weekend and, you know, one of the guys that I was really drawn to minister to is, you know, one of the guys that's just really hard to kind of get them to open up, you know, you would think in a place like that where everybody, all, all these men are there. There to just go after God, that it would be easiest at that point to open up. But he was just really having a hard time. But what really, when the walls really came down was when I did, just as you said, just ask him what, so what's your story, you know, like, how are you how did you How did you get to know the Lord?

[00:13:48] Darren Shearer: And, and it was at that point, you know, begin to find out about a lot of church hurt that had gone on in his life. And the Lord just really opened up an opportunity to, to minister. And I think those opportunities are all around us, not just in a you know, in a, in a Christian retreat, but in the workplace where they can actually, we can actually build that relationship and they can see how we're living and see if there, if it's congruent with what we say, we believe.

[00:14:18] The Missional Life: Yeah, man, I ended with a word that culture. And I know that's a really big thing for you is kind of a company or business culture. And so can you just build on that a little bit more? Like why is establishing a, a business culture for your company, a really good long term success plan for your employees and for your business?

[00:14:37] Darren Shearer: Yeah. Yeah. So going back to this, this issue and calling to make disciples. One of the things that I, I seem to be observing. In the way that, because I want to know, like, how are disciples actually made? And, and, you know, generally discipleship is taught as, well, we're going to go through a curriculum.

[00:14:59] Darren Shearer: Once a month, we're going to meet at Starbucks and we're going to, we're going to go through this book. And, and that's our discipleship. But I really believe discipleship is much deeper than that. You know, first of all, there's, you got to be able to model in front of somebody and it's got to happen where, where you live your life.

[00:15:19] Darren Shearer: And then, and then beyond that, it seems to me that. The Holy Spirit is really working through culture to make disciples, but as individuals we get to make the culture. So in a company, the, the team members come and go. I mean, the leadership comes and goes, the, the products and services, you know, they, they change, they go through, you know, sort of different iterations.

[00:15:47] Darren Shearer: There's certain types of policies and, and those all change. And, but what remains the same is the culture, but the, the culture is also kind of fluid, but it's from that culture that everything else is sort of springs and, and so I think as, as Christians, we need to really tune into this more that if you really want to disciple somebody, you know, I, I refer to that.

[00:16:12] Darren Shearer: Men's retreat that I just went on this past weekend. And what really grieves me and started to grieve me even before the thing was over was just knowing how right now these guys are in this sort of cultural bubble. We're, you know, we're all day long. We're just, we're hearing, you know, the Word preached, we're having deep and meaningful conversations revolving around the Lord.

[00:16:40] Darren Shearer: And, and it's, it's a very sort of controlled environment, but they're going to go back as they did on Monday, as we all did on Monday into our, you know, everyday lives, where the culture is not conducive to discipleship. The people that are surrounding these guys every day are, are actually in a lot of cases, leading them away from the Lord, not to the Lord. And, and, and so I think as leader, Christian leaders, we have to get more serious about, about influencing culture from a bigger picture and, and, and recognizing that the Holy Spirit is wanting to work through those cultures to, to disciple people. And by the way, the enemy's doing the same thing. He's working through age to this culture and that starts, I think certainly in families, but, but when people go to work, I mean, that's where they're spending most of their waking hours. And so the cultural values of that company. Are having as big of an influence on that person's life as, as anything ever will. And, and so I think that's why business people have a really unique opportunity, you know, to to disciple because, because disciples, I, I believe are made primarily through culture, but as individuals, we get to make the culture.

[00:18:06] Darren Shearer: And I think that's how that's how it's been set up for us to to disciple people. You know, and you see this, why there were a lot of the, the laws in the old Testament were to establish culture and to establish cultural values. And Hey, when one person got out of line you know, there were pretty swift and, and severe penalties on, and not just, but not just because of that one person, but because of the impact on the overall culture and how that would steer the, the overall, the overall culture.

[00:18:43] Darren Shearer: So we, we also have to be aware that the spirit of the age is also working through Through the culture of our families, through the culture of our companies, the culture of our schools to, to influence people. Cause the people will come and go, but that culture will remain.

[00:19:02] The Missional Life: That's really good. Well said. I love how you went back to some of the old Testament, , in terms of cultural creation, what are some of the different scriptures that you stand on or some different stories within scripture that you look at for yourself, for examples of leadership, and can you share some of your favorite examples of leadership within the Bible?

[00:19:24] Darren Shearer: Yeah. Well, since, you know, we're talking about the old Testament and the laws, I was just thinking about Moses and, you know, You know, Moses was trying to do it all by himself, right? And his father in law said, you got to knock this off. You're going to wear yourself out. You're going to burn out and you're not going to make the, the, the culture of your people any stronger. And, and, and he said, you need to, you know, You need to appoint people trustworthy men to be able to handle this caseload because he was literally just judging all of the cases and disagreements among all of these people from sunup to sundown.

[00:20:08] Darren Shearer: And and I think that's a lot of what we have in our churches today is pastors trying to be. Super christians and to do all the ministry and and people get as christians We get frustrated with pastors because they're not taking on this this issue That's really that we have a heart for and they're not putting this level of emphasis on it And that's why we have so many denominations now because this denomination isn't emphasizing what I want to emphasize And and and his father in law said you got to You You got to knock it off a point trustworthy people, but he also said you need to have these, you need to have standards that are, that are clearly defined for the people.

[00:20:51] Darren Shearer: And so what happens in the very next chapter, Moses up is up on Mount Sinai, getting the law, getting the actual standards for people to, to follow. And, and so, you know, maybe we're not going up on a mountain. Where there's a, you know a thick cloud and we're going to have this deep encounter with God, but maybe God does want to do something like that with those who he's called to, to influence culture.

[00:21:21] Darren Shearer: And, and I think we need to just be more deliberate about. delegating that authority. That's culture making authority. And, and, and Jesus said, and I love this as a leadership principle, Jesus or John the Baptist said, he must increase, I must decrease. And so when we're trying to do it all, on our own as as leaders, we're not raising up any leaders and we're not actually discipling people.

[00:21:50] Darren Shearer: And so Jesus is not increasing through those people because we want to increase and we want to be Superman. We want to be super woman and get the credit for everything and so I think that's a critical leadership principle.

[00:22:06] The Missional Life: Love that. What about from the New Testament? What stories stick out to you and exemplifying leadership in the New Testament? Of course, we can look at Jesus, but you know, any story from him or from any other any person in the New Testament that sticks out to you?

[00:22:19] Darren Shearer: Yeah. I mean, I, I think you see the, the follow on to the story of Moses there when, when Steven and the other deacons are appointed where the apostles were staying in their lane and said, we've got to raise up and appoint some, some trustworthy, faithful people to take on the role of serving the, the people.

[00:22:43] Darren Shearer: serving the widows and the orphans. And, and so I, I think there, again, we have another example of God's leaders saying, you know what, we need to decrease so that Jesus can increase. And, and I don't think that can be overstated for leaders. And I think it's what really holds us back. I think it's what holds the church back and makes pastors.

[00:23:09] Darren Shearer: I don't know. It's like there's just not a recognition that Christian ministry doesn't just revolve around this church building. And that because it's, it's like, unless it's happening in one of our church programs, it doesn't, it's not really happening. And I think what the thought really is that, well, we just can't take credit for it.

[00:23:30] Darren Shearer: And, and so we just got to recognize our identity in Christ that we are in right standing with God and that we don't have to, we don't have to perform, there's nothing you, you're not going to earn your salvation. You're not going to earn a you're not going to earn your right standing with God. And that has to show up in our leadership because there's just so much I want the credit. I have, we all have a core lie that perpetuates just toxic behavior. And you know, mine is that I don't matter. And, and I can look and see how the enemy continues to just sort of repackage that lie in so many different ways and present it to me as truth over and over again.

[00:24:23] Darren Shearer: And And it shows up, especially in leaders. I mean, there's just talking to a friend that's been dealing with a narcissistic pastor. And and, but it's not certainly not just pastors. It's, it's all leaders. And it's because we're I think we just don't see ourselves in right standing with God. We've got to.

[00:24:48] Darren Shearer: We've got to have a certain level of, of influence and performance that makes us feel like we can validate who we are instead of just fully embracing that unmerited righteousness and right standing that God has made available to us.

[00:25:04] The Missional Life: That's really good. Yeah. You know, you wrote a book called marketing like Jesus, 25 strategies to change the world. And I really am interested in hearing your perspective on this, where, you know, we think about marketing. We really are. We're storytelling. We're telling the story of, you know, of our business, of our ministry or company.

[00:25:23] The Missional Life: And, and so. You know, we want to put our best foot forward, but we also want to be transparent and honest. And, you know, we don't want to bend things. And, we also hear, you know, we should in scripture, sometimes we should, you know, show, and we should be an example of, you know, let our, let our good works shine.

[00:25:41] The Missional Life: And then we also kind of hear, Oh, we should just kind of not let our right hand know what our left hand should do. And particularly to giving, but I'm just wondering, where do you land and how can Christians best market, how can they best story tell the story of their business or the story of Ministry in alignment with some of these principles that you have found to be true in, in your book and in your research.

[00:26:03] Darren Shearer: Yeah, yeah, that's a, that's a great question. I think as there's a great book called story brand and a really helpful framework for this, that Donald Miller has put forward a really fantastic book I'd recommend. But one of the things that he's saying, and I think this is consistent with our, our Christian life and doing marketing as, as Christians is that we've got to stop trying to be the hero in the story.

[00:26:32] Darren Shearer: And, and, and I think this kind of dovetails with what I was just saying about, we must decrease, he must increase, but when we've got to be the hero of the story, Focus on they say, you know, what do you, what do you do? Well, I I, I, I try to serve customers as well. We've been in business for 40 years and I inherited this from my, my father and he inherited from his grandfather. And we've got a long legacy of providing good services and good products in this community.

[00:27:09] Darren Shearer: And, and it's like, we're the hero, you know, look at my family, look how great we are as opposed to. Let me focus on, let me give you a story of a life that was, that was changed and, and what our customers say about us. And, and so that I'm no longer the hero, but my, my customer is, my client is the hero of the story.

[00:27:37] Darren Shearer: And, and I think that's a principle that we really need to get a hold of. Of in our, in our marketing and, and ultimately it's, and we're seeing more companies doing this, making Christ the hero of the story and, and just getting out of our own, our own way. Just get that image of, you know, We're sort of locked up in the, in the, in the stocks.

[00:28:03] Darren Shearer: But it's the size of our head that we can't, that's keeping us in there. You know we could just slip right out, but our egos really get in the way, but we've got to make our clients and our customers and as a, as a nonprofit, you're the people that you're serving really the hero of the story instead of. Look how great we are.

[00:28:29] The Missional Life: Yeah, make Jesus famous, you know, just build his build his kingdom, put him first and tell the story. Absolutely. As we scale down here in your research, business leaders that are really making an impact that are, that are exemplifying these, these traits and these things that you've you put into your books, what are they doing on a daily basis that, that sets them apart from.

[00:28:52] The Missional Life: other business leaders, whether, you know, non Christian leaders or just Christian leaders that really aren't integrating. What are the, what are some of the different principles that they're doing day in and day out and are achieving for them? Not just earthly success, but kingdom success.

[00:29:09] Darren Shearer: Yeah, I think it really does and I used to underestimate the power of this is having a statement of purpose That really does orient your company your organization toward kingdom purposes and and that's not to say that you need to put jesus or or god in your In your mission statement or statement of purpose Explicitly but any companies that I know where the, the leader really has dedicated that company to the purposes of God is very, is very overt about that.

[00:29:49] Darren Shearer: You know, really does not, does not try to hide that. And sometimes they do put Jesus and God in their mission statement, you know, Chick fil A, you know. Among, among many, many others are, are doing that. And and, and it, you know, that's very different than we're going to, we're aiming to be the best in our industry.

[00:30:15] Darren Shearer: And, and there are a lot of mission statements that you hear like that, that, I mean, that's just not kingdom, you know, that you're literally your purpose is to be better than other people and other companies, like that just doesn't sound like, like God, God to me. But having that mission statement, that statement of purpose, that your team members can really We rally around and recognize that, you know, this is the kind of culture that we're here for the kinds of goals that we set are going to be in relation to this to this particular purpose.

[00:30:54] Darren Shearer: I mean, our statement of purpose is we help Christ centered authors build a legacy by crafting and publishing messages and stories that reveal the glorify God in all spheres of culture. And that issue of legacy is one of the ways that going back to your client is really the hero of the story.

[00:31:13] Darren Shearer: That's why our authors come to us is because they have, in a lot of cases, they're sort of at the end of their career. They're either retiring and they've got time on their hands to be able to write a book and pass down, pass along. Kind of a life message that they want to pass on to the next generation.

[00:31:32] Darren Shearer: And that's a massive part of their legacy that they're entrusting to us. And and so that really drives, drives what we do.

[00:31:41] The Missional Life: Wonderful. Wow. So where can listeners find your books and connect with you? Awesome.

[00:31:48] Darren Shearer: Yeah, yeah. So you can connect with me at theology of business. com. That theology of business institute is dedicated to discovering and applying God's will for business. And, and people can actually take a spiritual gifts in the marketplace assessment there. We, we were talking about the gifts a little bit ago and and also the Chrysler company assessment people can take their the books are available on Amazon, and if people are interested in publishing a book you can go to highbridgebooks.

[00:32:19] Darren Shearer: com.

[00:32:20] The Missional Life: As we're closing out, can you leave our listeners with one, one final thought on business or on living for God, that they can chew on for next few minutes and and apply to their life.

[00:32:31] Darren Shearer: Yeah, I think before you do anything, have to start from an understanding that I am in right standing with God and and that you're not going to perform your way. You're certainly not going to perform your way into heaven, and you're not going to perform your way into the level of intimacy with God that you that you desire.

[00:32:51] Darren Shearer: You're not going to perform. your way into a level of confidence and boldness that you want in your life to be able to to confront and fulfill the call, confront the issues that God has called you to confront, the challenges he's called you to face. But You got to start with a fresh realization that I am in right standing with God.

[00:33:18] Darren Shearer: I am, he has given me his righteousness. And go back and read Romans. This is a imputed righteousness. This is righteousness that's credited to your account, not the kind of righteousness that you're going to earn. So begin everything from that posture.

[00:33:37] The Missional Life: Amen. Amen. Well said. Darren, what an honor to have you on the show. Thank you so much. Thank you.

[00:33:44] Darren Shearer: Thanks for having me. I've really enjoyed it.

[00:33:46] The Missional Life: Blessings to you.

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