In an Instagram pinterest world, it's easy to fall into the trap of comparison.

Instead of celebrating each other, we feel the need to compete and compare with each other.

As believers, we must be careful of this trap and remember that God has given each person accustomed gift to them and we should celebrate each other, not compete with one another.

Today on worship Leaderpod, I sit down with a mentor and friend of mine, Jen Smale, and we dive into how to defeat the thorn of comparison and how to live in unity with one another.

Open your heart and prepare for God to meet you wherever you are.

Come on, let's get into it.

All right.

So today on worship Leaderpod, I have the absolute privilege to chat with a really good friend of mine.

She's also a mentor of mine and someone I look up to.

And it's interesting because I say all those things.

I'm like, I've known her for like three months, but I feel like.

But I feel like I've known you for a long time based on the even short but depth conversations that we've had.

And I'm just super excited that you are here.

So this is Jen smail.

Say hello, everyone.

Hi.

Super excited to have her here.

She's a part of the Worship Props podcast.

She's a worship leader, songwriter, speaker, and really passionate about raising up the next generation of worship leaders, disciples and followers of Jesus.

And so, Jen, thank you so much for being here, taking time to chat with me.

I know it's going to be a good time.

Yeah, I'm so excited.

Thank you for asking.

I love to.

The way you asked, you're like, would you consider.

I'm like, amber, my yes is on the table.

Like, we had such an incredible conversation a couple months ago and I'm like, yes, let's talk more.

So I'm excited to be here.

Yeah, it's true.

And really, like, that kind of speaks to kind of our, our relationship and how it's kind of formed.

Like, you know, I went to the overflow conference that was in Warren, Michigan at the woods church, and I went to a session of yours.

And I believe that the session was called women who lead worship.

And.

Yeah, and you just started talking and I letter was just like, floored an amazement of just like, the authenticity and the vulnerability and just the, like, the simplicity of things that you were sharing that really spoke to my heart.

And I remember, like, the session was over and I was like, I just.

I don't know.

I just gotta talk to her.

I don't know what I even gonna say, except for thank you, and, like, connect.

There was a really long line and people were waiting for me.

The people that I went to the conference with were waiting for me at the door, and they're like, come on, we want to go eat lunch.

And I was like, fine.

And I was like, I'm just going to connect with her.

I just want to know that she blessed me.

And so I connected with you on Instagram, I think.

And you responded right away.

It's like one of those things where you're like, do these people actually check their DM's?

Like, are you actually going to respond?

You just don't know.

And you responded right away.

Super open, like, yeah, let's chat.

I'm happy to.

And really just went from there.

And we just started, like, spitball and just like, passions were like, yeah, I feel the same way, and just go in.

And I felt like it was like an instant connection, that God really connected me in a time and in a time now where I really needed that different type of community and mentorship.

And so, and even just, like, hearing your heart about mentorship and just discipleship and how God's really been working in your heart about all of that.

And so, which we are going to touch a little bit on that because there's a lot of good stuff in that.

And I remember when you were chatting in the session at the conference and you were talking about how you went from, like, leading worship, leading teams to God, asking you to lay that down, then to moving to Tennessee with your family to not knowing what is going to happen, not having a home church at the time, still kind of like, wherever I.

What am I doing with my.

I'm not leading worship, but so what am I doing?

And so I really would love for you to kind of, like, maybe, you know, take us through that journey a little bit of, like, what God was doing in that process and you and your heart and maybe the struggles that kind of came with that surrender and that giving in, because there's a lot there, and I believe that a lot of people will be blessed by your journey of, like, where you were leading worship all time, leading teams to where you are now.

Yeah.

And it's a long journey.

It's kind of funny.

Cause a few people have been like, man, that was really sudden, you know, the move and that sort of thing.

I'm like, no, but what you didn't see was the, you know, the year and a half behind it, behind the scenes, what really, I think as I look back, I'm like, I think what really started it was at the top of what, 2022.

I had gone on a sabbatical.

I took a sabbatical because I had found myself just completely, completely burnt out.

Just emotionally, physically, spiritually, you know, obviously coming through.

Covid a lot of us in church ministry, like, the pace didn't ease up because everyone was at home or, like, if anything, it was like, the pressure increased, the pace increased, all of us increased.

And so you already have all of that going on.

And then I'd gotten sick, and I had an infection that was just one that, like, had to just work its way out of my body.

So it was exhausting, all this.

So I get to the top of 2022, and I'm just like, I'm hitting a wall.

And I felt really clearly the Lord was like, you need to sit down.

Like, you need to take a break.

And, you know, and then he, you know, kind of confirmed through my husband where he's like, jen, your body is telling you to stop.

You know?

So I go on this sabbatical, and I'm thinking, I know this is going to be a really great time of, you know, rest and refreshing in the Lord.

But what the Lord actually ended up doing was kind of correcting me in this time of sabbatical, when all of the other noise was silenced and I could really tune into him.

The Lord kind of brought me through this correction of, jen, what have you made this about?

You know, how are you defining success?

Because I think the way that you're defining success is not the way I define it.

I define success as you being faithful and you being obedient to whatever I ask you to do, not you having this platform or you having this position or this role and whatnot.

So I kind of went through this correction where I was like, oh, okay, lord, you know, I need to strip all of that away.

And now my focus is just, I'm going to be faithful, and I'm going to be obedient.

So I came out of my sabbatical all, you know, jazzed up and like, yeah, jesus, let's do this.

And within a matter of, like, seriously, it was like, two months.

I felt like the Lord was like, and now I want you to lay it all down.

And I agonized over it, and I was grieved, and I, you know, just kept praying, and I'm talking to my husband, and I'm, you know, in just trying to process this, and, I mean, it got so ridiculous.

Bless my husband.

It got so ridiculous just because I kept praying, like, every day, I was like, lord, just show me what to do.

And it was like, it was really obvious what he wanted me to do.

And so one day, my husband finally looked at me and he's like, jen, you know what the Lord wants you to do?

You just don't want to do it.

You don't want to do it.

And it was just this, like, it, like, hit me.

And so soon after that, I was again getting ready to, like, lead worship.

And, you know, this had honestly become, like, a daily part of my prayer.

Like, lord, show me what to do.

And I'm like, I'm sure the Lord was, like, getting so frustrated, but he's so gracious and he's so good.

But this one particular morning, I felt like he said to me, and this isn't to belittle what I was doing.

It's not too belittle.

But I felt like he had to use some really strong language with me.

And I just kind of felt in my spirit that I heard this kind of word that just said, you would rather hold on to the scraps that you know than open your hands to the unknown.

And it was just this, like, weight that hit me that almost, like, I saw, like, I have this scarcity mentality.

If I, if I don't hold on to this, what am I going to have?

And so I literally set a meeting that next day and went in and I just was like, I feel like the Lord wants me to let this go.

And it was incredible the way it all worked out because things were shifting and everything.

But so in that, in that season, you know, I was like, well, this is exciting.

Let go of everything I know and open my hands to unknown.

But I didn't know that that unknown was then going to go, okay, and now that you are freed up now I want to talk to you about moving.

And so then we go through this whole process again where I'm like, God, this doesn't make sense.

What are you doing?

Our family are, both sides of our entire families are here.

Our home church is here.

Like, this is where I've been born and raised, you know?

But we've learned enough to know that, like, it's better to trust and obey.

Just obey God, even when you don't understand what he's doing, it is so much better to obey.

And so, like, my husband and I are going through this process and we're praying and we're like, you know, like, we know we're gonna, we're gonna obey you, Lord.

We would love a reason.

If you could just give us a reason, which he never quite did, but we're like, we're gonna just trust and obey.

And so we did.

We ended up moving our family here.

And what's amazing is this just kind of continued to be a very interesting kind of unknown season.

I've thought a lot about Abraham.

You know, when the Lord first comes to Abram, that was his name at the time, and he's like, go to the land.

I will show you.

He didn't say, like, hey, here's where I want you to go.

It's like, start going, and I'll show you.

And so, like, when we first moved, I felt like that was huge.

I was like, man, I'm having an Abraham moment.

Like, go where?

I'll show you.

And then even being here, then I've gotten the picture of Abraham sacrificing Isaac, and I'm like, I have had to go up to the altar and lay down everything that I've loved, everything that I've done.

I've had to, like, basically, like, kill that thing on the altar.

You know, worship leading.

Okay, lord, here it is.

It's on the altar.

You can have it.

You know, because the Lord has kind of brought me through this, you know, is proximity and relationship with me and faithfulness to me and obedience to me.

Like, can that be enough?

Can that be your focus?

I remember I had this one moment, and this was probably around the top of the new year, and again, I was having a, like, a little tense temper tantrum with the Lord.

And I said to the Lord, I was like, the one thing I love doing.

Like, the one thing I love, you're not letting me do.

And I instantly got that picture of Isaac, and it was like God tested Abraham to go, do you love the promise more than you love me?

And I felt like the Lord was like, jen, do you love worship leading more than you love me?

And so I just was like, oh, I need to kill it.

I need to lay this thing on the altar.

You know, so it's just been this, and we're still in it.

I'm still in this kind of, like, okay, God, you know, whatever it is you want, I'm going to be faithful.

But you know what?

Closest to you is actually what matters the most.

And it's kind of like this, because, like, God is like, I want you to offer it.

Like, you know, even in the story of Abram sacrificing Isaac, he wanted him just to offer that.

God knew he was going.

He was not going to kill his son.

He knew that God did not want that either.

And there's so much symbolic in that story with the sacrifice of Christ, but it's like, what can you offer?

And just like what you said, will you let go of something?

You're so familiar with your souls, you know, kind of stuck in, especially, like, Isaac.

He was a promise.

Like, that was like, yeah.

You know, yeah.

Before, you know, Sarah tried to, like, make it happen, doing all the things, like, make the promise happen, and then they finally, like, were obedient, what you're saying.

And then there's another test to that, to offer up something that was so close, which is hard to do, you know?

So I feel that that's good, right?

Well, I think it could be so easy for us in our life to, and maybe we don't realize it until certain seasons, but we can very easily fall in love, more in love with the promise, more love with the assignment, more love with the vision that God has maybe given us for life.

We can easily fall more in love with that than with him.

And I feel like we have to keep our hearts tendered to that kind of like that correction to go, oh, man, I can't put anything else in front of you.

Serving God can become an idol.

And that's, like, I think, weird for us to think, but it's like, it absolutely can be.

Be like an idol to us, wherever.

I'm so focused on what I'm doing for you that I'm neglecting knowing you, I'm neglecting intimacy with you.

I'm neglecting worshiping you because I'm just so focused and busy doing things for you.

So it's just, yeah, it's a journey, and I'm trying to figure it out.

Yeah, it's a hard one.

Yeah, it is.

I mean, thank God for husbands that listen to the Lord and that are steadfast and, you know, God giving us that covering to help us navigate and, you know, whether that's someone in community or a friend, like, having those people in your life, like, it's okay to obey God when you don't understand.

Yeah, it's okay to do the next right thing because that's actually walking in righteousness with the Lord.

And you're right, and it is hard.

And I think a lot of people can, you know, relate to this idea that worship, even, like, leading worship, can be an addiction.

Like, it's something that you just even serving, like, I love to serve all is amazing, but when it really becomes, like, the focal point of maybe sometimes your faith?

Like, I grew up in the church, and so, like, I was always at church all the time, serving all things.

That was just who I was.

So when there was a season in my life where, you know, we were transitioning churches at the time, and it was a whole year of us not being in church.

And I was like, what do I do?

Faith was.

And God's like, are you, like, is your faith more in the church than it is me?

The church is important.

I love the church.

I'm for the church.

But I think sometimes it's easy or can be a blind spot to take on something that's not meant to be, like, above, you know, God.

Yeah, in a sense.

And navigating that, too.

And, like, identifying and maybe, like, let's chat about, like, some, like, early red flags for them, because I think, you know, again, I get blind.

I can get blindsided sometimes with, oh, I was making this an idol and I didn't even, like, realize it, or you just got too comfortable.

What do you think are some and maybe something that you recognize in your own personal life, some red flags that you started noticing that started to turn into this?

I'm holding this.

I'm holding on to this tighter than I am God.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I would say one of the biggest red flags, and I've seen this in a lot of people, unfortunately, I think one of the biggest red flags that maybe we're putting ministry in church activity before the Lord is if you have time to serve and to show up and whatnot, but you don't have time for personal devotion at home.

You aren't spending time in the word.

You aren't spending time in prayer.

You aren't having a daily, intimate connection with the father.

You don't have time for that.

You're too busy for that.

But you have time for church.

That's where I go.

That's not good.

That's like, to me, that's one of the biggest red flag warnings.

And that's something I hear a lot.

Like, people ask me all the time, like, you know, how do I get get in habit?

How do I.

And I'm like, oh, my goodness, how do you not, like, what are you seeing as your source of everything that you're doing?

You know?

So I think that that right there is, like, the biggest red flag is if you've got time to show up for church and to go to meetings and to serve and volunteer and do all these incredible things, but you can't find time to get in this word, to get in his presence to pray like that, that's just the ultimate red flag.

Probably the biggest one that I ever see.

Yeah.

You know.

Yeah, absolutely.

There's probably a whole lot of others, but to me, that's just the first biggest one that comes to my mind, you know?

Yeah.

Because there's always going to be something to do.

Like, you know, like the schedule is always full.

Like we talked about that.

It's like, church is great, activities are great, but it can get so, like, too much.

And then, like, we're trying to split the time for the devotion or for family or like, whatever it is, and then we kind of, like, misorder some things.

I heard Bill Johnson say something really powerful recently, and he was talking about, you know, the idea that a common saying that people say about, like, you know, it's God and then it's family and then it's ministry.

And he said, but it really isn't that order in the sense that, like, God is first, but there is no second after him.

It's like when you can love God fully, it's easy to overflow your priority to your family.

It's easy to have the right priorities.

It's not like putting, you know, things in order necessarily.

It's like God is first, and as you love God more, he gives you the ability and he opens the door for you to understand the next priority or, you know, the priority of loving God, not just like a checklist, you know?

Right.

Because I think, you know, we can do anything in the name of loving God.

You know, it's like, I love, you know, my family and I love serving in my church, and I was like, well, I'm doing this for God and I'm doing this for my family, but really, it's like all together, you know, it's like we want to put it together.

So I just like, yeah, I think it's easy to get caught up in the busyness of a church calendar or events or worship nights or whatever it is, and then forget like that our most important thing is our devotion to the Lord and getting into his word.

I know you're a big, big stickler about that.

It's like, are you in the word?

Like, there's nothing.

Where else can you go?

What else can you do except for being in the word?

Then you can operate fully.

You can take your family and move to Tennessee because you're in the word.

You can hear his voice through his word, and you know how to move in that, you know.

Right, right.

You're right.

And I'm such a stickler about it because it's like, listen, I love leadership books.

I love, you know, podcasts and all of that, but there's nothing like the word of God.

The word of God has the power to transform us.

So people were like, how can I grow as a leader?

I'm like, get in the word.

You know, how can I grow in this way?

Get in the word.

Because the more we're in the word, the more we know the Lord, the more he transforms us into the image of his likeness.

No leadership book can do that.

No podcast can do that.

No guru can.

Nothing else has the power that the word of God has to change and transform us.

I think that we're often looking for, what's this tool I can grab?

What's this process I can apply?

And those things are all great.

But really what we need is hearts transformed.

We need renewed minds.

We need to be more like Christ.

And the only way to get that is to get into the word, to get into it ourselves.

You know something, I hear people say a lot and I get what they're saying, but man, it frustrates me because I'll hear people say like, you know, we're just trying to make, make room for Jesus.

And I'm like, what do you mean?

What do you make.

Make room for him?

Like, like, he's, his presence has to be the priority.

Let's make room for other stuff.

I'll make room for the other stuff.

But, but Jesus is the, he's the one I'm after.

You know, he has to be the priority.

And I think that's so important, especially in this day and age right now, with, with where the global church is, with where the body of Christ is.

I'm like, man, we've got to, we've got to get back to this.

You know, we've got amazing resources.

I mean, I feel like the church is more resourced than probably you ever have been.

You know, we've got incredible resources and I love all of those.

I love that people can hop on and listen to your podcast and go, oh, man, I'm going to get, I'm going to get encouraged today.

I'm going to get my spirit fed.

I'm going to get a different perspective.

They help me.

We have so many resources, but I do think that we're still kind of looking for the resource and the tool and the method and the formula instead of just looking to the presence, instead of going, yeah, let's make his presence the priority.

So really, like, I'm so passionate about this right now because I feel like that that's what, that's what God's calling us all back to.

You know, we're all, we like God.

We want to move.

We want you to move.

Well, how's he going to do that if, unless we're, like, going after his presence?

Unless we're repenting and going, you know what?

We want you to move.

So that means we want your presence more than anything.

So super passionate.

Yeah, yeah.

Amen.

I am, too.

And I feel like, you know, yeah.

The hunger that I have for, you know, just knowing God more, like, there's more to know about him and there's more, you know, under the sun and he's, he's a expanding our revelation of who he is day by day.

And it's like, I don't want to miss a moment of that.

It's like, it's too precious to give up, in a sense.

And you find, and I think ways I'm thinking of, like, worship leaders or people who may be listening to this, like, well, how do I realign myself to be after the one thing?

And it really is super simple, just go after him and leave everything else to the side.

Right.

You think about Jesus often saying, if you're going to follow me, everything else has to be down.

Like, to be a true disciple, you have to forsake your family.

I'm sorry, what?

You have to pick up your cross.

You have to lay everything down and follow me.

And I love that Jesus uses kind of like, you know, kind of intense, not offensive, but kind of like, intense tone to say, like, it really means laying your life down, your ideas, your agendas, your set list, your, whatever it is, and lay it down to just follow me, to pursue me.

And I've had many times, and I think maybe you can attest to this, too, where, you know, you're getting ready to lead worship and you're like, I'm so caught up in the what I have to do, what I'm doing, what's gonna happen next and this and this that.

I literally have lost the view of, like, who I'm singing to.

And I've just had moments where I just, I'd be leading worship enough that we're just going to sit here.

There's nothing else more important than just fixing our focus and fixing our gaze.

And so I say all of that because I want worship leaders and anyone in worship ministry or followers of Christ to, like, take, like, a checklist of yourself and say, okay, what am I, what am I putting before God?

Like, what things have I been, maybe unintentionally putting before him?

And how can I do, like, a spirit checkup, in a sense, and know what your priorities are and looking at your.

Your response to things, like, you know, you could say, well, you know, if things change automatically, for whatever reason, are you super irritated right away?

Like, that tells me, like, okay, we need more time, really, just in his presence.

Like, there.

There really isn't, like, a formula other than just, like, seek him and seek everything else less, pretty much, yeah, yeah.

It's so true.

It's so true.

I think I.

I think I'd said this in that workshop that you'd come to, but I often say I'm like, God doesn't hear our worship through his ears.

He hears our worship.

He perceives it through his eyes, because he's always looking at our heart.

And so our tendencies, worship leaders, can be.

I'm going to make sure I get every no, and I'm going to make sure, because, again, those are things that humans tend to notice and not that that's not important, but we have to remember, like, but God is always looking at our heart.

And there's been times we've seen stories in the word where outwardly, yeah, everyone's, you know, they.

They're doing what they're supposed to be doing, and the Lord is like, no, because your heart isn't in the right place.

And so I think that that's something that we have to, like, constantly remind ourselves as worship leaders.

Like, it's more important for my heart to be right before the Lord.

It is more important for my heart to be rightly postured than it is for me to hit every note, to nail every transition, to pick the perfect set.

Like, honestly, God doesn't care that much about that.

And that's probably really sacrilegious for me to say.

It probably is, but, but, but the stuff that, if you look at the word, what God saw as worship, some of it was the sloppiest stuff on the planet.

You know, the woman crying at Jesus feet, pouring out oil.

Oh, my gosh, that was scandalous.

That was messy.

It was inappropriate.

It was like, this was not executed well, but the Lord, because he's looking at the heart, goes, that's.

That's worship.

I'll receive that.

And so I do think it's something that we worship leaders.

Like, we have to remember that even.

Not even just worship believers, followers of Jesus in everything that we're doing.

Like, he's not looking for this perfectly executed performance for us.

He's always looking at the heart.

Always.

Yes, yes.

And that, I mean, that really even ties into what I want to chat about.

And that's, like, comparison, because that can stem from that, because you're in a very, you know, performance based culture or you very instagram pinterest culture that has to look a certain way when God's like, I really just want this.

Like, the simple, the messy, just like what you're saying, the devoted, the hungry.

That's what he's looking for.

He's not looking for a picture perfect Christianity or worship leading or motherhood or anything like that.

He's looking really at the heart.

And that's so true.

And I always say, so I homeschool my kids.

But one thing that I have gravitated from worship.

I'm sorry, homeschool mom, she always says, you set the tone for your home.

You set the tone for your home.

And you can say that about my mind.

I set the tone for my mind.

I set the tone for my heart.

And my posture before the Lord is always going to be, yes, yes, whatever you want, whatever it looks like.

And I think we get.

I know for me personally, I early on even worship leading, even sometimes now, like, I get caught up in, okay, worship leading needs to look like this.

And then I compare myself to other people.

And, you know, you and I have talked about this before, but, like, I've hid my voice for so long, it took me a long time to like, okay, I'm good with how my voice sounds.

It doesn't sound like Carrie job and it doesn't sound like Taya or it doesn't sound like tasha Cobbs, but it sounds like me, and that's okay.

And it took me a long time to really grab ahold of that because I think I'm so consumed, especially if you're a worship leader and you're either on staff or you do it often.

You're looking for, right?

You're doing all the resources, you're watching podcasts, you're doing all these things.

So you're consumed with other people's process and things and voices that you go, wait a minute.

How do I fit in that box and God's nothing?

God didn't create us to fit in any box.

He created us just to be who we are.

And I think, like, that comparison is just such a thief, and it destroys people's confidence, and it can kind of hurt your revelation of God.

Like, if you allow it and you say, wait, is God really like that?

Then, like, you get into that, like, the serpent.

Did God actually really say that about you?

Is he really, like, proud of you?

You know, and you have to, like, combat all of those lies.

But, like, comparison is such a thief, don't you think?

It is.

It is, absolutely.

And I think, like, some of it is going to be.

It's just some of our nature.

I think it's a result of, like, the fall.

Like, honestly, it's something that we all just tend to do.

But I think it's also something that, like, we need to have an awareness of and guard against, because ultimately, I feel that comparison.

I think there's a difference between comparison and, like, observation.

Observation is when I can look at what someone else is doing and be like, oh, that was really cool.

They did, oh, I like that mashup of worship.

That's cool.

But I think we have to be careful because then observation could then, like, lean into comparison.

And whenever we compare, we are going to ultimately end up competing.

Comparison almost always leads to competition, because then what starts to happen is instead of me being able to appreciate what somebody else has done, maybe draw some inspiration from it, now I'm going, wait, they do that better than me.

Oh, but I do that better than them.

And whenever we start to get.

That's now we are competing.

We're competing with brothers and sisters in worship of the almighty God.

And, like, we need to be able to see that that's what this is so that we can squash it.

I do think comparison is, like, one of the biggest tools that the enemy uses now.

I think that the church has maybe a little bit.

We fostered it because I think that we've kind of, you know, it's important for people to have skill.

It's important for people to have talent.

I'm not saying that, like, you can't be tone deaf and lead worship you, like, that doesn't work.

You have to have an ability.

Yeah, but I do think that we have elevated talent and we've lost the ability to discern anointing.

And, like, we have to be able to discern, like, we can't just go, well, this person's talented, throw them up on stage with a microphone and have them lead the people in worship, because they might not be anointed to do that.

While they have an ability to sing, it doesn't mean that they carry the anointing to lead and worship.

And I feel like we've neglected the anointing side of things.

So then when we neglect that, a lot of the emphasis becomes talent and skill and then we think that because someone can sing vocal runs and they give us goosebumps, that's the anointing.

And it's like, no, not necessarily.

You know, the word tells us the anointing breaks yokes and it heals.

Yes.

And people are saved and delivered.

So people are coming into our churches week after week, enjoying our vocal runs, getting our little Jesus tingles, but our lives aren't being changed.

The spirit of the Lord isn't really moving to me.

I go, we're having an emotional experience, but are we deeply spiritual one?

So I think that there's a lot of things that kind of have fed into this comparison trap.

And I do think, again, I think this is one of the biggest tactics of the enemy.

And again, comparison leads to competition and then it even leads to, like, self, you know, degradation.

I've done the same thing that you've done.

I've hated my voice, hated it.

And the Lord has corrected me a few times.

Just kind of like, first of all, I'm the artist who designed you.

I knit, fashioned you and I gave you the voice that I gave you.

So when, when you, you know, when you like, just diss it and hate it, despise it, you're insulting my handiwork, first of all.

Yeah.

You know, and so I, like, I've taken that correction a few times and just gone, okay, Lord, I'm not Mariah Carey.

I'm not, like, I can't, this is not gonna happen.

But you know what I'm gonna do?

God, you've given me a voice, so I'm gonna use it the best I can, all for your glory.

And, you know, that comparison thing, it is, it's something you have to constantly, we have to constantly be on guard against and fight against because, again, what's the ultimate tactic of the enemy?

To just shut everybody up?

He doesn't want to see God be praised.

He doesn't want to see people come to know Jesus like, so he's, we've got to remember that we have a really, really, um, clever enemy out there who's doing things, you know?

Yeah.

And so we have to be aware of that.

We have to be aware of that comparison trap.

And when we find ourselves in it, repent to ask the Lord God, help me, help me keep my eyes focused on you.

You know, not easy, but it definitely is a trap and it leads to at least a competition.

And we don't need competition in the church.

That's not what we're supposed to be doing.

That's right.

Yeah.

That's right.

I was.

I love what you were just saying about how, you know, comparison can turn into competition and how, like, you're so right.

Like, we were actually wired to compare.

There's a healthy version of comparison because, you know, I think about my kids.

Like, my youngest and my oldest, they're too different.

But my youngest is observing what you're saying.

Oh, wow, my old, you know, my older sister's doing that.

Maybe I can do that.

But she quickly realizes that she can't climb every tree that she can.

And so she's observing her, like, her talent and her gift, and she knows what she can do and what she can't do right now.

And every year that she gets older, she can reassess and see, okay, this is what I was able to do, what I was not able to do, and now I can do this.

And it's an observation.

It's a part of the development, really, of our minds.

And the enemy, of course, just wants to turn that around and make it on.

And I think, especially with it, when it comes to comparison, it becomes wrong and almost sinful.

When we start to fixate on it, we fix it on somebody else's because that's coveting.

And then we're becoming prideful and ego, and it turns into this.

Oh, it's gross, you know?

Yeah.

And then we tried to mimic something that we were not created to mimic.

We were created to be exactly who we were created to be.

You know, a few months ago, I remember asking God a very scary question for someone who is an enneagram, too, and loves to serve other people but don't want anyone to take care of me.

It's like, God.

I said, God, what do you think of my worship?

You know, I'm like, wow, he could say a lot of things.

You know, he's.

God is just gonna be nice and say, well, I love it.

You know?

Yeah.

I was gonna say, well, you know, you could, you know, whatever.

And he's like, the heart that you have.

I love it.

Like, I love your worship.

And I remember being a throwback picture in my head as I was asking God this of a picture of when I was a little girl and I grew up in church, and I used to be in the front singing all the time.

Like, that was my jam.

I just loved it.

So I was up in the front, and God said, when you were up there?

I loved it.

That was the first love.

It's like the first love of, like, you recognize me, you knew me, and I love that worship.

And your voice breaks chains that nobody else can, in a sense, like, I empower you.

Your voice can reach to different people and vice versa.

And you talk a lot about celebrating, like other believers.

Like, I love.

You're just such, like, you champion that.

You're like, hey, we're not in a race.

We're not, you know, we're not all like, I'm going to win first place, and we're not in the.

In the kingdom of God.

We are in a race, but we are to encourage one another because we are in the kingdom of God, and we are after the same thing.

We are empowering and advancing the kingdom of God, and there is no race.

And so we begin to pick and compete and do all these things, you know, to the world.

They're like, that's what the church looks like.

No, that's not what the church looks like.

And in two corinthians ten two, I was reading, it says, not that we dare to classify or compare ourselves with some of those who are commending themselves, but when they measure themselves by one another and compare themselves with one another, they are without understanding.

And I felt that I was like, lord, when I compare or when I am tempted to compete, I am winning without understanding of something I've lost some sort of revelation of some.

You know, I've just.

I believe lie.

I believed a lie, and that misunderstanding can really creep in.

Do you.

Do you understand what I'm saying?

Exactly.

Oh, yeah.

That's so good.

Well, I love what you're saying.

We're not in a race.

It's like, there's not a gold medal and a silver medal and a bronze that we're all trying to get to.

Like, the reward is hopefully going to be the same to hear.

Well done, good, faithful servant.

Like, so I love that it's like we're not in this race against each other.

You know, it's.

We're all running for the same goal and the same prize, which is just eternity with him.

You know?

I even love that verse where it talks about, like, the elders, everyone, they cast their crown.

So it's like, even the crown we're gonna get in heaven, we're gonna cast it at his feet, because he's the one who's worthy, not us.

Yes.

Yeah.

He's the reward.

So I think it's just so important to keep that mindset in front of us to ask the Holy Spirit.

You know, David prays in psalms.

You know that.

Search me, oh, God, search my heart.

Show me if there's any offensive way within me and lead me in the way everlasting.

Like, I think that that has to become a part of our daily prayer.

This is what the gift of the Holy Spirit is for.

Because if I just try with human reasoning, I can't surge my heart with human reasoning because human reasoning is, you know, it's not going to get me there.

It's flat, you know, it is.

I'll find some excuse to make for myself or I'll compete.

I'll do something else.

We need the help of the Holy Spirit to go search my heart.

Show me the things that, that are off.

Show me.

Show me what's offensive to you.

How often do we ask the Lord to go, hey, show me how I'm offending you.

Show me, you know, again, we will pray all the time, God, show me your heart.

And sometimes I'm like, no, God, show me mine because I know it's probably icky and it needs some work.

Show me my heart, God, so that I can know what I need to bring into repentance and what, what I need you to refine in me.

You know, there was this moment I had years and years ago in a church and it's tough because, like, when you're young, I came up leading worship when I was young.

It had never occurred to me that maybe my voice wasn't good.

Like, honestly, I just was, like, so confident and just really was going after the Lord.

I wasn't hindered by, like, intrusive thoughts.

And we ended up in a season at a church that was just, just not the healthiest, not the healthiest culture.

And there was a lot of things that, you know, kind of seeds that were sown and, you know, comments that were made and just things that started to cause a lot of insecurity, cause a lot of doubt, cause a lot of, like, it became, like, where it's a form of pride, insecurity.

My insecurity just got just so out of control to a point where when I would, when it would be my turn to lead a song, I would start to clamp up so much.

I was so nervous.

I felt like I could feel my I, throat closing and all this.

And so I remember there's this one day and I'm nervous.

It's about to be my song and I'm just praying and I'm like, God, help me.

God, please help me.

Like, I want to do this right and I want to whatever.

And again, I felt like the Holy Spirit lovingly corrected me, going, you care more about what this one person thinks about your voice and what they said about your voice, you care more about that than you care about the fragrance of your worship.

To me and what I think of your worship.

And it was just this corrective moment where I'm like, wow, I've become so consumed with the comparisons that have made the comments that been made.

And it's this.

It's this loving correction.

That's the thing.

I think we get afraid sometimes, but it's like the word tells us that a father disciplines someone he loves.

His correction is evidence of love.

You're like, we shouldn't be afraid of his correction.

We should crave his correction going, Lord, correct me.

Help me, help me, because I want to be in right relationship with you.

I want to be correctly aligned with you.

I don't want to be just off swirling in my own thing, you know?

And so if we can continue to invite the Holy Spirit and help me, correct me, show me, you know, lead me in the ways that are everlasting, like, I think that that's how we can start to work through this.

I don't know if on this side of heaven we'll ever completely get over it, you know?

I honestly don't.

Yeah, this is something I have to continuously go.

I have to constantly bring it for the Lord.

Lord, help me to not compare today.

Help me just to give you the best that I can give you to do the.

To do with whatever you've put in me.

Help me, Lord, to just release it back as purely as I can, you know?

And it's when we try to mimic what we see someone else doing, when we try to take on what we see someone else doing.

Oh, I'm going to apply what they're doing.

I'm going to.

We have to be careful, because I think that that's when our offering becomes impure, you know?

Again, we can be.

We can be inspired, but.

But we're designed to be image bearers of Christ, to reflect him.

That's who we're supposed to reflect.

And so when I look, and I'm going to try to reflect amber, I like, oh, I want.

If I could be like Amber, we're not reflecting now.

The Father and then this offering, this purity kind of.

It kind of, like, works its way in.

We need the Holy Spirit.

We need the Holy Spirit.

And I love what you're saying.

It really is a daily surrender.

Like, it's a daily.

No one's made it.

News flash.

No one has made it.

No one has triumphed over even I'm thinking about, like, preparing for this podcast and I'm like, okay, how to overcome.

And I'm like, you don't.

I mean, you do, but you surrender it every day and that's how you overcome for the day, right?

Yes.

Tomorrow's a different story today.

Yeah.

I need a little help, you know, and it's just like a constant, like I'm bringing this to.

And, you know, I used to think of that as like, like kind of weak, like, not strong enough.

But then that turns into pride.

As if, like, I can do all that I can do to make sure that I'm not going to, you know, compete or to strive or anything like that.

I'm not relying on the Lord.

And I feel like in every season, and maybe you can testify to this, too, every season it's the same.

It's like, I just need more of him.

I need the Holy Spirit to guide me in every step and everything.

Like, it's basic Christianity 101, but it's like, it's the same thing over and over.

Right?

I need you, God, in this season, right?

We just moved to, to a different state.

We moved all of our family.

Right.

Holy spirit, I need you.

Okay, now we're looking for another church.

Hey, Holy Spirit, I need you.

Like, it's a constant, you know, thing that we're pulling on.

And he just, like, I don't know if you just said it or you said it before, but you talk about how, like, God is an abundant God.

Like, he has everything that we need.

He has more than enough.

He has.

He has enough for our today and he's got more than enough for tomorrow.

And I think if we can even just fix our eyes off of us more to like to him, that's where we really get into, you know, the surrendering every single day.

I mean, you know, even being a stay at home mom and homeschool my kids, I'm like, lord, every day I'm like, holy spirit, help me.

They are driving me up the wall.

Help me today.

Help me.

And it's becoming now a language that not like, my kids are like, holy spirit, help me.

I'm like, help you do what I need.

You know?

And it's just, we really need to, like, ingrain like this.

Even in the generation.

It's just like, you cannot do this on your own.

This is not a you work.

This is a holy spirit work to continue and go to the, you know, your quiet place and your devotion time like that.

I think, jen, you nailed.

You hit something.

That's why I'm going back to it because it's like the devotion, it's kind of being attacked by busyness, you know, I know we kind of already talked about it, but I feel like there's something really heavy on that because.

Right.

Even if you are, you know, not serving as much, you'll find some.

I mean, the enemy is, is crafty and making you busy, and then you get distracted and then you start being, feeling sad and depressed that you're not doing anything.

Then you compare and then you're, like, in this, like, huge swirl of nonsense, you know, and you need to, like, unravel that.

And I don't know.

I don't know if you have any.

Just like, if the Holy Spirit is dropping anything in your heart now, just to, like, encourage, continue people to go deeper in devotion, lord, and protecting that time and that space or an example of you maybe needing to do that in your life, you need to protect that space and that time with the devotion, lord, because that's important.

Yeah, well, we have to remember, like I said, like, the enemy doesn't want us growing.

He doesn't want us close to the Lord.

So it makes sense that, you know, you sit down to read and, you know, the dog throws up, you sit.

You, you sit down to read the Bible and, like, the water heater blows up.

Like, it makes sense that these things happen, that distractions come.

And so that's why it's like, it's just like, pushing through.

It's getting into this habit and then even, you know, so I've always.

Devotions has been a part of my life, like, for decades.

But I remember, too, there was this other time where I was, like, so proud of myself because I'm like, man, I'm just whizzing through my chapters and the Lord's like, yeah, good job reading.

But, but did we connect?

And again, so I had this correction moment where I'm like, what am I even doing?

What is the goal?

Is the goal to just be a good Christian who really reads the Bible?

Or is the goal to connect with the presence of God, to give him the speak to me, to not just sit there with my wish list of God, do this, God, do that, but to let him speak to me.

And so I started to shift my devotions to just kind of going, Holy Spirit, I just want to, you know, Lord, I want to know you more.

And so some days it was like I read two verses and I prayed on those two verses, or I just sat in quietness.

But it is going to take discipline on our end.

It is going to take like a, I have to find a time of the day that works best for me, for my schedule, because that's something else I'll tell people, like, you know, listen, if you're not a morning person, if you're like a, I barely get up in time to get ready to get out the door, but I've got a two hour lunch break, or I'm wide awake in the evening, I'm like, okay, so you find a time where you can actually have quality moments with the Lord.

You know, for me it was just early morning because the kids weren't up, the house wasn't busy yet, you know, that kind of thing.

But, but it's really going to take discipline, opera.

But I also just really think it's a perspective shift.

His presence has to be the priority.

His presence has to be the goal.

When we see Jesus as the prize at the end of the day, Jesus presence is the prize.

It's not what I've accomplished.

It's not, you know, a paycheck.

It's not.

It's, it's, it's.

Jesus, did I make you proud today, God?

Did I obey?

Was I faithful to what you've put in front of me?

And I think this is, this is really helpful, too, if you're a stay at home mom, because when you're up to your eyeballs and diapers and cranky kids and goldfish and just tantrums, it can be very hard.

It can be very hard to see that what you are doing is of like, eternal value.

So even in that going, Jesus, did I faithfully carry out what you've given me to do today?

Did I make you proud, God, have I honored you today in my life?

I think if we can have this perspective shift, it will help all of us.

It will, it will strip away.

This is what it's done in my life.

It has stripped away the striving for, oh, I need to do this in ministry, and I need to do that and I should start this.

It's stripped away the striving to where I just go, okay, God, whatever you have put in front of me today, I'm going to be as faithful with it as I can.

If it's a conversation with my 13 year old about grief, if it's, if it's, you know, I get a DM from some person I don't know, but they're asking that I'm going to faithfully execute whatever it is that you put in front of me.

Because, God, I just want to honor you, and I just want to please you.

And being close to you is what's, what's most important.

You know, a passage I'm going to read to you, actually, two different, like, translations, but a passage that I think should be familiar to all of us, but something that I kind of come back to, I keep it in the back of my mind, is out of Galatians six four, and I'm going to read it in Niv and then switch over to message.

But it says, each one should test his own actions.

Then he can take pride in himself without comparing himself to someone else, for each one should carry his own load.

Message paraphrase says it this way, make a careful exploration of who you are and the work you have been given, and then sink yourself into that.

Don't be impressed with yourself.

Don't compare yourself with each other.

Each of you must take responsibility for doing the creative best you can with your own life.

And at the end of all of this, when we stand before the Lord, we're going to be faced with the.

The account of, what did you do with what I gave you?

What did you do?

You know, how did you, how did you spend your life?

And so that, that's just been something, especially in this last couple years, I've been carrying a going, I'm going to have to stand before the Lord and he's going to say, what did you do?

Were you so focused on what everybody else was doing and trying to keep pace and trying to make sure you looked like them and you sounded like them and you were moving like them?

Or were you so obsessed with me in my presence and doing what I've asked you to do?

You know, even if nobody has seen it, even if nobody else saw it, was your obsession to be faithful and to be obedient to what I've given you to do?

And so that's something I would really just want to encourage, like, believers in general with, you know, whether that's, you've got a marketplace job or you're in ministry at church, you're stay at home mom.

This is something that, it can be universally applied to each of our lives.

His presence has to be, has to be the priority.

It has to be the pursuit.

That has to be the prize of our lives.

His presence.

Yes.

Yes.

That was wonderful.

I feel like right now you should just pray that over us and, like, release that, because, I mean, everything you're saying is just spot on.

We just, it's a continual realignment to know Jesus.

You are, you are it you're the prize.

You're the reason, you're the one we're after.

We set our hearts to you.

You know, in hebrews twelve, it talks about laying aside every weight, every sin that clings so closely and let us run.

Endurance, the race that is set before us and to fix our eyes on Jesus, the author and the finish.

Your perfecter of our faith.

And it's just that we need that.

So would you just pray that over us and everyone over anyone who's listening as well?

Yes.

Yes, Father God, we just come to you right now, first of all, with thanksgiving, with gratitude, God, with grateful hearts for who you are.

There is no one like you who gives us mercy that we don't deserve, who gives us grace and redemption and forgiveness.

Just God.

There is no one like you.

So we are so thankful for that.

That the God of the universe would love us and would want us and would want to be close to us.

God, we thank you for that.

Lord, I pray specifically over this, this issue of comparison, this getting things in our mind or goals and whatnot, where we have lost maybe sight of you.

I think of the lyrics, the heart of worship coming back to the heart of worship.

It's all about you.

I'm sorry Lord for the thing I've made it when it's all about you.

God, I pray that by the power of your holy spirit you would bring us back to that heart of worshiping you, of seeking only your presence, making your presence the priority and the prize.

God, I pray that you would help us by the power of your holy spirit to correct us, God, to convict us, to lovingly move us closer to you.

God, I pray that you would remove striving, God, that you would make us aware of areas in our life, Lord, where we're missing it.

God, maybe these things that lead to burnout, that lead to stress, that lead to anxiety, God, all of these things that we've taken on that were not your intention, that aren't your heart.

God, I pray that you would strip that away by the power of your holy spirit and that you would speak clarity, Lord, that we would hear your voice calling us just to closeness with you, to nearness with you.

God I pray Lord, that in this season that we are all moving into in this next season that you would just begin to refine us and to realign our priorities, realign our hearts and our desires and our spirit with you and with what you want to do.

God, in and through us.

Lord, I thank you, God, for your, for your faithfulness and for your love.

I thank you, God, for your goodness, Lord, and I pray that you would bless your people, Lord, bless your people.

Yes, Lord.

Give them rest.

Give them encouragement, Lord.

Strengthen them, Lord.

Help us, Father God, as, as we live this life on earth.

Help us, God.

Thank you so much for your presence.

We give you praise and honor and glory in Jesus name.

Amen.

Amen.

Wow.

I'm over here crying.

The Lord is present.

Thank you.

Thank you.

Thank you, Lord.

You're such a good God.

He's so, he's so kind.

You know, even when we're ahead, we are in a frazzle and our eyes aren't fixed.

He's like, I'm still here.

And just takes, you know, when we draw near to him, he's there.

Yes.

It doesn't take a long time to get there.

He's there.

And he's just so, so faithful.

So thank you so much for that prayer.

And this conversation has been really, really awesome.

You're awesome.

I appreciate you so much.

I appreciate just your authenticity and just your unwavering faith that you hold and you show.

And if anyone wants to connect with Jen, I highly recommend it.

But if you go to her website, Jen smail.com, she has all the things because she just released a song not that long ago, and she's a songwriter and she speaks and she travels.

She's a worship leader, she's a mom.

They live on a beautiful farm.

And I'm like, you know, righteously jealous a little bit because of all the land that they have.

And she's just so cool to follow and so encouraging.

All of her Instagram posts are so always spot on and encouraging, and I'm just, like, reposting most of hers most of the time because she just shares such a wealth of knowledge and also just of love for the Lord, and it's so evident and authentic.

And so I just really, really appreciate you and value and, yeah, thank you for taking the time to, to chat with me and to talk to everyone else, but that is the end of our conversation.

I hope that this blessed you and stick around for the next one.

Like, subscribe, do all the things to be updated on the next episodes that we have coming up.