Hello and welcome to the perpetual traffic podcast. This is the show we share cutting-edge strategies and acquiring leads and sales for your business through paid traffic. And especially today, we are going to be talking about after the click stuff and our continuation episode here with John Ainsworth on. The importance of funnels and today's show, like I said, you should absolutely listen to part one first, but this is a continuation of all the gotchas, all the things that you shouldn't do, all the warnings when you're making these funnels and creating one-time offers when you're, when you're doing order bumps. Yeah. Scratch that. Let me do, let me do that again. Take two. Hello and welcome to the perpetual traffic podcast. This is your host, Ralph Burns. And this is the show where we share cutting edge strategies and acquiring leads and sales for your business through paid traffic, as well as a lot of after the click stuff. And that's exactly what we're talking about here today. In part two of our John Ainsworth interview on the importance of funnels and upsells, especially for course creators. If you're a course creator, definitely go back and listen to part. One is a lot of nuggets. Some things that we've talked about here. Many times you're on perpetual traffic, but John gives his own take on it, which is really interesting. So make sure you go back to part one, there's some real nuggets of gold there of how to increase your average order value, how to increase lifetime value for course, creators. And even if you're e-commerce or service, you're going to be able to get a lot from it. So on today's part two. We'll be talking about down-sells should you do them? How do you do them? What are the gotchas? If you do them, and then also one time upsells and order bumps. What are the gotchas and things that you really need to watch out for? I don't think anybody really talks about this all that much, but we talk about it here on today's show. So stick around. We're going to get into part two with John Ainsworth. Right after this quick break. So we've gone through order bumps, pretty lot of detail here. And, and then there's the one the OTO is, I always want to say to you, is it like one click up sell? And then there might be a second one. How about like, what's your take on the down, sell if they don't take the one-click upsell, like, and then you get, the software that shoots out and said, but wait, you know, there's your down, sell. I mean, that could end up if you do that too many times, obviously sort of start to piss people off. But the point is, is like, what's your advice on that? How do you consult clients? Like when is it right to do it? When's it not right to do it?

Yeah. So it's a more advanced tactic. It's almost definitely not worth doing until you've implemented the whole system with getting regular email promotions, good sales pages, good checkout pages, everything else then come back to that. Cause it's the, the another incremental improvement, but it's smaller. The thing that tends to work the best with down do it, as part of that funnel is to do a payment plan or some kind of a breakdown with the price and the thing that they have just refuse to buy with the. So let's say you've got an upsell, that's an extra $300 and you can say, okay, you chose not to get that, but actually you could get that in three payments of $99 or three payments of $109 or whatever you want to have. And that tends to be a good kind of down sell to have at that point. And you can go in and I funnel hacked loads of funnels and you will see people do upsell one down, sell one and then up sell two. And so technically what that means is down sell one is like the cheaper version of what they just didn't get. And the upscale two is in a separate offer of something else. And so it's a payment plan or the cheapest. So there is somebody, I won't say the name, but she's selling courses about how to make courses. And I think you probably know who, I mean, Ralph and

I might.

upsell was get a bunch of templates. You can use your create your course in, you know, you can create your webinar and you can create your course in your PowerPoint templates or keynote templates, second thing. And it was five of them. And then the down sell is okay, we didn't get all five, but you could get just two. And so that's kind of another thing that works reasonably well as the downside as well. But again, the conversion rates on these are much lower than the original upsell. So it really is not something to implement until you've got a lot of other stuff in place.

And I think the fact that you're, for course creators, especially. So if you're a course creator and you're listening to this show, like these are golden nuggets here, you don't have to hire an agency to do this. Not that we, you know, we're not adverse to hiring John or me or Casa, but the point is it's like, you can do this right now. Mike, my last question for you here is one of the things when I was being trained through Ryan dice on funnel and funnel. Is the thank you page. The one-time offer the upsell. It can't be, it's gotta be positioned in the right way. And I think a lot of people miss this, it's not like it's a bait and switch. Hey, you just got this thing, but what you really should have gotten was this, you know, you surprise, I got ya. And then that leads to a lot of returns and like people getting ticked off. And so there was an example that, you know, and he and I were working together. we went down that road and screwed it up. Like we've made lots of mistakes in this industry, but anyway, it was a really important lesson because we had a ton of refunds because the offer, you know, the, the one one-time upsell the upsell itself after the initial transaction, jaded the initial transaction and just backfired. So how can you avoid that? Cause that's a huge trap. That probably not a whole lot of people think about, and they're like, oh wow. John's telling me to do this. I'll just go out there and throw anything. Like it's gotta be consistent, gotta be very consistent with what you would previously offer them the logical next step. You've said that a number of different times, what are the gotchas that people should watch out for their.

Yeah. I think what you're saying in terms of don't make it seem like, oh, you, you got that, but actually that's not worth it. This is just, I mean, one as a copywriting style, that's disgusting. Too, if it's an offer issue, it's disgusting. Cause then you just sold somebody something and then told them, actually, you shouldn't have bought that really, unless you're going to spend more money. It's like, that's horrible. But what you say to people instead is what you just got was fantastic. This is going to really help with X, Y, and Z is going to make your life better in these ways. And then if you want even more of that, here's the next thing to get after that. So for example, if you, and this is slightly exaggerated because you probably wouldn't have courses on both of these, but you bought this thing about funnels, well, once you built your funnel, the next step is going to be Facebook ads. So therefore that's the upsells. That's further down the line. That's more extreme, but like what it typically is is you bought the beginner course. Great. You're going to love it. You're going to get so much out of it. If you want to buy the whole bundle of beginner, intermediate and advanced all in one, go, we'll give you a special discount. 'cause you're going to love that so much. You going to go through it. And in two months time, you're going to be ready to go through the next course, or you've bought a month's membership. Why not get the whole year's worth at a discount and that's going to be great for you because then you're going to have access for that extended period of time. People who stick around for at least five months, tend to get this much better result than people who only stick around for a couple of months. So why not commit right now that your life is going to be better? And you're going to do this for a long time. You could stick with monthly and that's fine, but if you get the whole year, it's going to be fantastic. And it's, it's, it's always just saying to people, this is going to be even better. Not the thing you got was no good.

So that, that fund, just remember the funnel that we had worked on, it was like, he's like, it's gotta be better, faster or cheaper in some way in the delivery of it. And it was how to distill water from like a S like a muddy stream was the front end offer. But it was like, Hey, this is part of an overall survival package of how to like, live in the wild and be, you know, it was like for preppers, really, which was, and it was like that fundamentally shifted. I think it was like, Hey, you just got this thing, but what you really should have gotten was this is like this piece of hardware that distills it for you, as opposed to you figuring out what it was like, that was a bad offer. And it ended up really backfiring, but you're saying it's gotta be either a part of the whole and or something that just magnifies the great thing that you already got. And I think it's really important for people to understand.

Yeah. And if you're doing something in the services space, then it might be more like what you just said in terms of the, you know, the ups. So I've got a friend who who runs his website, job rack.edu. They do hiring and out in Eastern Europe, he had job ads on the site, a couple of hundred bucks. That's great. Or you can hire him for the more expensive offer. His upsell is. We'll do a bunch of it for you. We'll write the job ad with you. We'll actually post it out. We'll make sure it goes out in front of the right people. We'll do pre-interviews for you. And then we'll get those guys set up ready, just the top three for you to interview. And that costs 10 times as much, but they have like 30% of people buy that. And so adding that in has like, Dramatically increased the size of the business. And so you can have an upsell that's way more expensive than you do it for you, but it doesn't mean the first one. Wasn't good. You could still just have the job ad, you know, like you guys have got, I believe still a service where you will coach people on how to do the or you can have the done-for-you service, which is the better one. And we've got the same thing, right? We've got a group coaching program and we've got the done for you service. And so we'll sell people at some point into that. We're not going to do that kind of thing though, on a confirmation page, like that's a phone call, that's a, you know, two months later and the thing it's still an upsell, but it's not the same process.

yeah, it's a continuation of the previous action as a logical next step. Like it's not, so it's not a bait and switch. It's not, you know, and even with order bumps, it can be just about anything as long as it's related to the initial purchase. Correct. There are any gotchas there on the order bump side.

No. I mean, not gotchas. Exactly. Because what you can do is you put some, you go through the list of every product that you've got, that might be a good fit. You choose the one that you think is the best fit that works out about the right kind of price point and you put it up and you see what the conversion rate is. And so it's, so it's so straightforward to test that there's not, there's nothing really that I've seen. Like if you, what you don't want us to order bump is something that is needed to make the original product work. It can be something that makes

Uh,

or better, but it

good point.

it needed to be included. Otherwise the product was not. But it can be a workbook that goes with the course that you can then go through and it's going to make it easier because it's already predesigned and you feel everything in, you know, that's extra doesn't have to be included in the course of the course to be good, bonus, you know, an extra module that's going to cover, a Q and a, from 10 people who went through it before and what they found most useful about it. Great. That's not necessary, but if it's one of the modules that without it, the whole thing doesn't work, that, that no longer fits.

Right. Like, congratulations, you just bought this pen, you know, to get the ink that goes along with this one pen, click this button. Right. But you don't want that. You maybe want like, Hey, here's the red, you've got blue, but here's red, green, black, and purple for $5 or whatever it is, you know, in cartridges, something similar to that. Okay. Gotcha. I'm sort of like you know mimicking, I think what Casa was doing in the, feather pen space there with the nibs, but just trying to modernize it just a bit for the 21st century.

is just listening to this and not it Ralph, to make his point there took apart a pen showed us what a inside of a pen looks like. He really wanted to get this across to us what the order bump was.

This is why we should have this on YouTube costume. There's just so much more value when people can see what, what the hell we're doing. John, this has been great. And we really appreciate you. Now. I can put my pen back together, by the way, just, and I just poked myself and now I'm bleeding. Ink is everywhere. It's a big mess. John, where can people find you and where do they get in touch with you to, to get some of the goodies that you guys offer?

Yeah. So we have a group coaching program and a done for you service for people actually going through and doing all of this. do that on a. Profit basis. So if we help people to increase their revenue, then we get paid a percentage of that. There's no there's no cost apart from that. And we're pretty picky about who we work with. So the first step to do is you go to cos profit report.com fill in like 10 to 12 questions there. And it's, we will figure out for you a personalized plan for your business in terms of how much extra revenue you could make, what steps to work on first, we'll send you training about how to do it all for free. then if you look like you'd be a good fit to work with us, then we'll, we'll drop you an email about that as well. So that's cost profit report.com.

Chorus profit report.com. Awesome. And people wanted to connect with you specifically. Is it a LinkedIn Instagram thing, any links we want to leave in the show notes there or profit.com is good enough.

John at data-driven marketing.co as best way. I'm not on social media, all that much really.

Yes, he's a holdout. That's good. I love people like you and you're still doing well without the socials. That's awesome. Well, thank you so much for coming on this week's show and thank you all for listening our show notes will also be over@perpetualtraffic.com on behalf of my awesome cohost COSAM Ozlem until next show cm.