Brent Taylor: [00:00:00] One of the takeaways that I've had now in this world that, that we've, that we get to, you know, have fun, uh, playing in, is when you get into a company, the, the business owner typically, or the founder, they're wearing all the hats. So they're doing everything [00:00:15] and you know, they stumble along some success.

They start hiring some people, and before you know it, they've got a decent sized company. Where I have seen kind of an unlock for companies, it's when they start taking some of those hats off their heads mm-hmm. And they start passing those around to others. Buying back some of their own [00:00:30] time. Um, to help grow the company and to be a leader.

Right.

Voiceover: Welcome to Metcalf Money Moment, the podcast unlock financial clarity and confidence with expert insights to achieve your [00:00:45] goals. Hosted by Jeb Graham, Ethan Hutchinson and Eric Wymore. Each episode offers decades of combined expertise in wealth management. Retirement planning and more, join us for practical strategies to inspire your financial journey.

[00:01:00] Now your hosts

Jeb Graham: welcome to Metcalf Money Moment, the podcast. My name's Jeff Graham, and I'm here with, uh, co-host Ethan Hutchinson and Eric Wymore. [00:01:15] Uh, and we have a special guest today. Uh, his name is Brent Taylor from K-C-C-F-O Services. Uh, and Brent, uh, and I have known each other for a fair amount of time. We used to play golf, uh, at the same golf course.

And, uh, you know, we moved offices, [00:01:30] what was it, about six months ago and just so happened that we moved in, uh, to an office in the building right next door to, to Brent, and we've kind of reconnected. And, uh, so what Casey's CFO services does is a, is fractional CFO services, uh, to organizations and companies.

[00:01:45] And, uh, Brent, I think, first of all, welcome everybody here. So how's everybody doing today? Thanks, Jeff. Doing good? Yeah. Nice doing, doing great. Well, Brent, I think one of the things we talked about, maybe to start the podcast, is just to talk a little bit about [00:02:00] what a fractional CFO is, you know, the industry as a whole and how it's growing and, and what it is that, uh, that you guys do for organizations and how you benefit 'em.

Brent Taylor: Well, Jeb, thanks for having me on the podcast today. Excited to be here and to chat with you. Uh, so fractional CFO [00:02:15] market's been really interesting. So I started my firm about seven years ago. Before that, I had worked in kind of the corporate world, actually a mix of big four accounting and corporate world and great experiences.

But I actually married a small business [00:02:30] owner and just kind of saw how different that world is compared to the world that I was in. And I was helping her. I actually helped her buy her business, helped her finance it, set up for infrastructure. And, you know, I just had little light bulbs kind of popping [00:02:45] off around my head.

Like, that was fun. That was an impact that I really haven't felt, um, in my previous career. So I, I, I decided to kind of go off on that and at the time I didn't even know what it was called. I was just kind of calling it consulting. Yeah. Um, it had really, it made [00:03:00] it really interesting the first couple years 'cause I almost had to just educate business owners and, and, and even partners that this is kind of what we're doing and, and I'd say in the past two to three years.

The fractional CFO world has really evolved and it's been really interesting just to watch. [00:03:15] Now it's more recognized by business owners and people just in the business community, and just the number of people going into become fractional CFOs is pretty exciting because, you know, the amount of small and mid-sized companies out there that need help, it's pretty, [00:03:30] it's pretty wild.

I mean, it's a, it's a huge pool and most of them are out there just trying to, you know, they're grinding at working hard and. You know, they didn't realize you could have access to maybe an expert for, you know, yeah. A fraction of the price. Um, so it's been, it, it it's definitely [00:03:45] emerged a lot in the past Yeah.

Past two to three years for sure. Yeah,

Jeb Graham: that makes total sense. 'cause you, you think of like so many small businesses and how much it actually costs to have a full-time CFO and there's just so many businesses that don't have that type of revenue and aren't set up for that, [00:04:00] but they need the service Right.

And so if they can do that on a fractional basis. But I think another big point of, uh, clarification and differentiation is, you know, from a CFO versus an accountant, right? Like, I think there's, those are kind [00:04:15] of like synonymous terms, but you do really very different things. So can you give us maybe the difference there between what you do and what somebody's accountant does?

Brent Taylor: Absolutely. I think that the highest level I always say is your accountant is looking backwards. It's taken [00:04:30] historical information to put together financial statements and, and we're looking forward. We're saying, all right, we see where we've been. Maybe we, we've had some missteps or some things have gone great, but now where are we going going forward?

So we really focus on kind of the path forward and what does the next [00:04:45] 12 to 24 months look like, and do we need to set up financing? Do we bring need to bring in partners? What kind of hiring are we gonna have to do? While the accountants really kind of focused on. Hey, did we account for everything accurately?

Do we, do we know how we've done, right? Mm-hmm. And you know, when we [00:05:00] come into a company, the majority of the time a company will have, it's either called an accounting manager or a controller. Or sometimes they'll have outsourced their accounting to, you know, a bookkeeper. Just kind of depends on the size of company.

But that is a, that is a level that is needed. You have [00:05:15] to have your transactions and your financial reporting at least pointed in the right direction mm-hmm. To know, you know, where you're trending and, and maybe where do we need to double down on things or where do we need to kind of back off on things.

So, you know, I'd say the biggest thing is your accountants kind of looking [00:05:30] backwards. Your CFO should be looking forward,

Eric Wymore: Hey, hey, Brent. Are, are there certain industries that, that, that you're attracted to as far as your, your, your job

Brent Taylor: or your work? Yeah, that's a great question because there's some in my industry that are, they are [00:05:45] going, you know, they're, they're doing a niche, right?

They're, I'm focused on this industry and this industry only. I'd say I'm more of a generalist. My, my, my company, we've, we've worked anywhere with real estate developers to, uh, you know, a gamut of service-based [00:06:00] companies, which is, you know, that's a broad swath of our economy, but, uh, not focused on a single industry.

What, what we have found is most, most businesses at the end of the day are pretty much the same. Money comes in, money goes out. You hope more stays in and you hope you're smart with, with that [00:06:15] money that does stay in. Nice.

Ethan Hutcheson: Definitely. I had a, uh, I don't know if this is a good question or not, but do, do you ever work alongside an existing CFO in an organization and, and come along for project work or anything?

Or, or [00:06:30] is it really the small businesses, single owners, that sort of deal?

Brent Taylor: Hey,

Ethan Hutcheson: it's a

Brent Taylor: great question. So have not worked alongside another CFO. Um, but what we have found is we work alongside, you know, a controller at a company, right? So it's interesting when I, when I [00:06:45] kind of got into this, I figured, hey, you know, at a certain point in time, the company will outgrow us.

They'll bring in a full-time CFO.

Eric Wymore: Um,

Brent Taylor: and I've actually had that and, and those are success stories in my mind. We, we just had one where we took the company from four people to a hundred people [00:07:00] Wow. Over three and a half years. And they were at the point where they needed a full-time CFO. So that was in my mind, a a, a success story.

But what I've also found over the past seven years is as a company's growing and that's really the companies that [00:07:15] make the most sense for us to work with. 'cause they're the ones bumping into complexities and they need that help. They need a full-time control, they need a really strong controller just to make sure all the ends in the outs and all the controls and everything are working properly and, and we [00:07:30] can come alongside that controller in that fractional CFO.

See and be a be with them for quite a while. And I don't know if that a hundred person, uh, threshold that, that was just kind of interesting. I just saw this company at a hundred people was where it was made sense for them to kind of make the leap. [00:07:45] But, um, that's a, that's to this point,

Jeb Graham: that's a lot of growth in three years.

That's, that's pretty, yeah. Impressive story really. Yeah, it was

Brent Taylor: a, that was an really, that was a interesting journey and you know, when you're growing that fast, it's also expensive. So just figuring out how you finance that and everything was, um, it was [00:08:00] fascinating. Yeah.

Jeb Graham: That's pretty cool. I will. Uh, so like for us, obviously in our client base, we have a lot of small business owners.

Yeah. I'm sure some of them could probably use fractional CFO services. Like, like, I don't know if we want to call it success stories, but like, what do you think, [00:08:15] like when you come into a company, what are the first things that you're talking to? And I know that's probably unique to each individual organization, but what are the first kind of things you're, you're talking to 'em about and what are the common things that, uh, you're really helping 'em out with?

Brent Taylor: I [00:08:30] guess one of the takeaways that I've had now, kind of in this, in this world that, that we've, that we get to, you know, have fun, uh, playing in, is when you get into a company, the, the business owner typically, or the founder, you know, they're wearing all the hats, so they're [00:08:45] doing everything and you know, they stumble on some success.

They start hiring some people, and before we know it, they've got a decent sized company. Where I have seen kind of an unlock for companies, it's when they start taking some of those hats off their head because they're wearing all the hats and they start passing those around [00:09:00] to others and, and, and buying back some of their own time, um, to help grow the company and to be a leader.

Right? So sometimes I'll get in there and I'll just kind of understand like, what's the history? You know, what's your leadership team? Do you have a leadership team? You know, what are your [00:09:15] goals? And a lot of times it's interesting, business owners haven't even like really thought about what are their goals.

Like, they're just grinding so hard and working so many hours that they're just like, my goal is to make it the end of the year and hopefully there's some money in the bank. Right. So, yeah. So [00:09:30] sometimes it's really, it's kind of understanding like, well, let's start setting up, you know, some things around you to set yourself up for success and get some things off your plate, um, you know, to, to help continue to grow the company.

It, it's really interesting too, like, I think [00:09:45] once a business owner sees, Hey, if I take some of these things off my plate and bring in smart people around me. Like, Hey, my business can grow, my life can get better. I mean, it's been fascinating to see how many business owners don't even have a financial advisor.

Yep. And or maybe a great tax CPA, and it's like, Hey, let's. [00:10:00] Let's bring in the right advisors around you mm-hmm. To, you know, hopefully take some of the money that you're, you're making and, and do some smart things with it. And do things like succession planning. Very few business owners are doing succession planning.

Yep. Because they're just grinding, so. Right. Sometimes it's [00:10:15] just kind of getting them to take a deep breath and to work on the business and not just in the business. Yep. And that's kind of a weird thing that I've found. It's almost like you're a little bit of a business coach mm-hmm. But you're, and you almost have to be to make sure that we're making good financial decisions on the journey.

Jeb Graham: Yep. [00:10:30] Well, very good. I know, I know. Sorry. I know that's a, um, like when, when, when you're talking about financial, you know, some of 'em don't have a financial advisors, all of 'em probably have a CPA. Right. But some of, and all of 'em have an insurance guy and stuff like that. [00:10:45] But I'll tell you just that, like we have numerous different clients from corporate executives to, you know, young people that are high earners, but.

I've always said that, that one of my favorite types of clients to work with is the small business owner. And the reason is, is because there's so many ways that you can help [00:11:00] 'em from, you know, to your point on succession planning. Well, when they do a succession plan, they need to, they need to fund that, uh, either key man insurance or, or buy sell agreement.

They need to put together a 401k plan and maybe we can work with their accountant and figure out ways to save them massive [00:11:15] amount of dollars on taxes by setting up a safe Harbor 401k plan. But that's, that for us, it's, it's kind of becoming a niche business, you know, with a lot of, uh, uh, small business owners.

And I think working with people like, like you, uh, [00:11:30] for us, uh, is, is a good thing to have or you're, you're a good thing to have in our back pocket when we're talking, uh, to our clients. Just because, you know, obviously our goal is for our clients to be able to grow their business. And I think having a CFO.

Uh, is probably a, a, a [00:11:45] humongous step in that, in that right direction to do that. So,

Brent Taylor: and I, I think what I've, well, what we have, and that's not what I think what we've seen is you get to play quarterback a little bit for the business owner. So you gotta come in there, you gotta kind of unpeel everything.

You get to see what's going on, where things [00:12:00] are good, where there's some things that need to be better and maybe where there's an opportunity to bring in somebody. Like, like, like you j but to say, okay, hey, you haven't been saving for retirement. You're paying a bunch of money in taxes. Like, hey, there's some tools out there that you know, you [00:12:15] can, you can save on taxes, but set aside money.

Mm-hmm. But also like, you know, to reward your employees and bring some benefits in that, you know, will help you recruit better people and get 'em to stay there as well. So it's almost playing quarterback at times to see. Where are they and [00:12:30] where could things get better? And then let's bring in the right people, um, to join this journey.

Jeb Graham: Yeah. Cool. Nice. Well do So can you tell us, Brent, a little bit about, um, so we've talked about the, the industry as a whole and maybe [00:12:45] your company, K-C-C-F-O services, how many people, how many CFOs you guys have, you know, I know you said. Uh, you don't necessarily have an industry, but what is like an ideal client for you guys as far as company size and, and who you can [00:13:00] help the most?

Brent Taylor: Absolutely. So when I started this journey, I figured I would just be kind of solo guy, Brent out there trying to help companies. Um, and, you know, a few years have passed and now there's, there's a total of four of us. Um, so I'm surrounded by a number of strong women on my [00:13:15] team and, and, uh, they, they help me and, and our clients every day.

So that's been. Funds. Yeah. And our, our ideal client, it's, it's companies that are growing. Um, there's an awful lot of, I guess I would call 'em lifestyle businesses. And those are great businesses, right? That's somebody that's stumbled upon a [00:13:30] service or a product and they've maybe got a small team and you know, they're generating enough cash that they're kind of happy with, with what, with what's happening there.

A lot of times those companies don't really need a fractional CFO. They probably need a financial advisor. They need to get a tax CPA. [00:13:45] The companies that we work with, they're growing, they're bumping into complexities. And my experience has been once you start hitting about 10 people, um, those complexities start right.

And that 10 to call it a hundred person company [00:14:00] that's growing and that's trying to figure out are we, should we go to this other location? How are we financing our growth? Those are the companies that make a ton of sense for us to come in, uh, and get to work with.

Jeb Graham: Gotcha. That makes sense. That makes total sense.

Well, is there anything else, [00:14:15] Brent, uh, or Ethan or Eric, that, or Brent, that you think would be a, a road we can take you down here that one of us could ask a question that you think would be beneficial?

Brent Taylor: I guess, you know, maybe to flip the question onto you guys, are there things that you've noticed with your business on our clients, you [00:14:30] know, in the past year or two that you're kinda like, yeah, this is, these are successful things for them to do, or services to bring in?

Is there anything that's just. I guess shining out to you guys. I

Ethan Hutcheson: can think of five right now that probably need to talk to you. So I would [00:14:45] say, uh, yeah, this has been educational from my perspective, just to understand kind of who you're looking to work with and, and that ideal, not necessarily looking at, you know, minimum revenue requirements or anything like that, but hey, companies that are willing to grow, growing and wanting to grow, which I [00:15:00] think.

It pretty much encompasses all businesses. So for the most part, yeah. Should have some sort of conversation with, with you or, or, or a team like yours. Yep. Yeah, absolutely. Could you share a little bit

Eric Wymore: of how, what the process would be if they wanna engage?

Brent Taylor: Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, [00:15:15] I would, I would come sit down with them, um, just kind of understand like, Hey, we'd have a, a discover call.

So, hey, what's going on? Tell me about your business. Tell me about your needs. Where, what are some of your challenges? Where are some of your opportunities? And we would kind of really use that as an opportunity to figure out. Is there, you know, could we be a value [00:15:30] and service to that, that business and, and if we both decided that, hey, this made a lot of sense, then figure out kind of our cadence.

We have companies that we work with. I mean, maybe a little bit smaller client, we might sit down with them once a month and take a deep dive, you know, let's look at what happened [00:15:45] last month and then let's spend the rest of the call kind of looking forward and figuring out like, are we trending towards our goals?

We have some other clients that, you know, we're working on a, on a weekly basis. Mm-hmm. There's just enough going on that we have to, you know, have that cadence. So. It's a little bit tailored towards the [00:16:00] company and the season they're in. So it's not kind of a one size fits all. It's, it is really what's gonna help serve that company during their growth.

Yep. And,

Jeb Graham: and I go, I go back to the, the question you asked us a minute ago about like things that we're seeing with business owners, like our business owner clients. [00:16:15] I think a big piece of it, and you hit on it earlier, is just the estate planning piece of whether it's estate planning or uh, or succession planning.

In a business. I feel like that's always the last thing that people think about, right? And there's, you know, the chances of a business owner killing over and dying, [00:16:30] it probably doesn't happen all that often, but it does happen. And, uh, and I think like trying to get people to put that in as a priority in their business becomes difficult, right?

Because you're talking about everything else in the business and the la the, the very [00:16:45] last thing they're gonna think about is, well, what, what happens if I'm not here to run the business? Or what happens if Johnny, my best sales person. Uh, all of a sudden takes a job somewhere else and we're, we're missing a bunch of revenue.

How, how do I insure for that risk? Um, so, or it [00:17:00] takes a job somewhere else or, or dies, right? Um, that's one of 'em. And then I think it's also the balance, you know, when we're working with, with small business owners, I. You know, say they put together a 401k retirement plan, or they're putting together a simple IRA, but let's just say it's a safe Harbor 401k [00:17:15] plan.

A lot of them are, are gravel with how much to put into that plan to, to shelter money in taxes, and how much should they be reinvesting in the business for certain growth initiatives. Uh, or, you know, do I wanna profit share to my employees and how much is that gonna cost me? And what's the [00:17:30] offset? Like, what am I saving in taxes if I.

Make this big profit sharing contribution and what value does that really have to me as the business owner, as well as the employees. And I think kind of trying to talk 'em through those balances, um, or those types of things [00:17:45] in, in retirement plans are things that we're talking to them a lot about. And uh, and there's no kind of right answer, I don't think, like, I've got one decent sized 401k that I can think of right now that every year talks about doing a profit sharing plan.

They kind of do the ANA or doing the [00:18:00] profit sharing aspect of their plan. They do the analysis. And they end up not doing it. And so now we're kind of looking at, well, what are some other solutions for that business owner? 'cause he wants to put more money away for himself, but he doesn't really wanna, doesn't necessarily want to have to be [00:18:15] on the hook for this big profit sharing contribution to his employees.

So, so those, those balances and kind of figuring out how to, how to solve that problem is something that we run into a lot, I think.

Brent Taylor: Yeah. Both of those topics, I'd say in the past couple years have I, I, I'm [00:18:30] seeing a lot and that's why there's so much synergy, I believe, between the fractional CFO and the financial advisor for that business owner.

It's succession planning and it is this balance because it is, it's, it's the balance of what do I leave in the company, what do I [00:18:45] take out? What do I, mm-hmm. You know? Reward our employees with. So those are two big topics and I've, I've really seen those pop up. So again, that's why I've seen so much synergy between fraction CFOs and And financial advisors.

Yeah. Good ones that want to think about those [00:19:00] things.

Eric Wymore: Yeah, absolutely. I would. I would imagine As well as they're getting, or if they're getting closer and closer to wanting to liquidate their business or sell their business. Yeah. They want that numbers. To be propped up a bit. Yeah. As much as they can.

Jeb Graham: And, and I'll say that that is for us, something that [00:19:15] we've dealt with over the past few years. Several different clients that have sold businesses. Yeah. And like kind of gone down that road and, and we're not set up or capable of doing the actual consultation like we could, I guess we know enough to be dangerous.

Right. When it comes [00:19:30] to like, we understand the transaction and we understand that once the transaction happens, that's. Good for the client, and it's good for us as our financial advisor, but when it really comes to like, what's this business worth? Uh, you know, what's, what's going on in that industry?

That's really not what we're set up [00:19:45] for. And that's, that's obviously a, among your expertise. Have you, have you been part of any, any, uh, exits?

Brent Taylor: Yeah, we have. Yeah, actually, so we've had multiple companies that have, uh, been acquired over the years. Again, that's another success story for us, right. That's [00:20:00] you've built something that somebody else is willing to pay money for.

Um, I have numerous clients right now that a transition selling is just always kind of on top of mind, right? I mean, a few of these companies, they are, and this probably should be everybody. I mean, you're building [00:20:15] something, you should have an exit in mind because that's gonna help you build a great company.

Um, but you know, a lot of companies are, Hey, I'm, I'm focused on. How am I ensuring that I, my profitability levels match up with what I would maybe want to get someday from my [00:20:30] company? And so we'll analyze that at times. Like, what if you were to sell your company, what would you want? And then we will kind of re-engineer that to say, well, right now, based on what you're doing and multiples, you know, you're not there, but over the next two years, let's make a really heavy focus on these different [00:20:45] areas to get that EBITDA where it needs to be to potentially sell to a, a level that you'd be willing to sell it.

So there, we have a lot of those discussions at times and, and we're analyzing it like. Where are we at today? Where do you want to be and what needs to happen between that gap if you do want us in your [00:21:00] business?

Jeb Graham: Mm-hmm. Yeah. But those, those are probably interesting conversations too. And that's like the ultimate, that's your ultimate like, uh, you know, hooray moment, right?

When you get, when you get, you coach someone up and, and then that transaction happens and yeah, that's what every, [00:21:15] that's what every business owner kind of dreams of, right? Is that glorious exit. And then you also realize that it's not always the, and we've talked about this on the podcast before. It's not always like.

You sell the business, you get the cash and you put your arms up, usually there's a process. Right. And it's an earnout and it takes a [00:21:30] while. Yeah. But it's still, it's kind of every business owner's dream and um, so that's cool that you get to work that closely with it. For sure.

Brent Taylor: Well, it's fun to see because you've, you watch these business owners and it's a grind and you've seen them pour their heart or soul into this, this business and to support [00:21:45] their employees.

So when you get to see these moments where, hey, they gonna sell, you know, that's, it is, it's exciting. So. Yep, for sure. Yeah.

Jeb Graham: Awesome. Well, I think this has been super productive and I really think, uh, that [00:22:00] people will get value out of this. And we thank you for coming on, Brent.

Brent Taylor: Yeah. Jeb, Ethan, Eric, thank you so much for your time.

This was awesome today. Yes. We'll have to do it

Jeb Graham: again sometime and uh, maybe it'll be when, uh, we're working together on, on one of our clients one of these days here soon. So

Brent Taylor: there we [00:22:15] go. We can have a case study on the successful, we can do a case study.

Jeb Graham: Yep. There we go. Awesome. Well thank you guys and this is Metcalf Money Moments Podcast.

Sign it off.

Voiceover: Thanks for tuning [00:22:30] in to Metcalf Money Moment, the podcast. We hope today's episode provided valuable insights to help you unlock financial clarity, confidence, and peace of mind. For more expert advice and resources, visit metcalf partners.com. Until next [00:22:45] time, make every money moment count.

Disclaimer: Jeb Graham, Ethan Hutchinson and Eric Wymore are registered representatives with and securities offered through LPL Financial Member FINRA SI PC Investment advice offered through W [00:23:00] CG Wealth Advisors, a registered investment advisor, W CG Wealth Advisors and Metcalf Partners Wealth Management is AR separate entity entities from LPL Financial.

The opinions voiced in this podcast are for general information only and are not intended to provide specific advice or recommendations for any individual to determine which strategies or investments may be suitable for you. Consult the [00:23:15] appropriate qualified professional prior to making a decision.

All performance referenced is historical and is no guarantee of future results. All indices are unmanaged and may not be invested into directly.