1 00:00:04,000 --> 00:00:07,630 Well, hello and welcome to the eCommerce Podcast with 2 00:00:07,630 --> 00:00:09,190 me, your host, Matt Edmundson. 3 00:00:09,550 --> 00:00:13,840 Uh, you know what, been in eCommerce for a little while, since 2002. 4 00:00:14,020 --> 00:00:17,170 And these days I get to partner with amazing e-com brands to 5 00:00:17,170 --> 00:00:20,169 help them grow, scale and exit. 6 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,720 Uh, and if you'd like to know more about that, head over to the podcast 7 00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:24,800 website, ecommerce-podcast.net. 8 00:00:24,820 --> 00:00:26,800 You'll find out all about me, all about this show. 9 00:00:27,250 --> 00:00:30,850 And all about our amazing guests, just like George. 10 00:00:31,300 --> 00:00:31,630 George. 11 00:00:31,630 --> 00:00:33,010 Man, I've been looking forward to this. 12 00:00:33,070 --> 00:00:35,530 Uh, I just, I love our conversations. 13 00:00:35,530 --> 00:00:38,560 I'm not gonna lie, I always sort of go away feeling a lot happier about 14 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:40,180 my life, uh, after we've chatted. 15 00:00:40,180 --> 00:00:41,495 So it's great to have you on the show, man. 16 00:00:42,055 --> 00:00:43,075 My friend, it's an honor. 17 00:00:43,075 --> 00:00:44,785 And I feel like you're an og. 18 00:00:44,785 --> 00:00:46,975 Og like 2002 in, in e-comm. 19 00:00:46,975 --> 00:00:51,385 Like I'm like 2008, 2009, and I'm always the old guy and I'm 20 00:00:51,385 --> 00:00:52,585 like, I hate to say it, but 21 00:00:52,615 --> 00:00:54,025 Yeah, I'm older. 22 00:00:54,295 --> 00:00:55,345 you got year older. 23 00:00:55,345 --> 00:00:56,065 A year older. 24 00:00:56,065 --> 00:00:57,775 You've been in the game for a minute. 25 00:00:59,035 --> 00:01:03,415 Yeah, I've, I've been around, uh, depending on the, on the mood that I'm in. 26 00:01:03,415 --> 00:01:06,085 Sometimes I'll use the phrase eCommerce dinosaur, just 'cause 27 00:01:06,175 --> 00:01:06,414 Yeah, 28 00:01:06,505 --> 00:01:07,075 quite cool. 29 00:01:07,915 --> 00:01:13,465 I mean like in true, in true reflection though, like the level of cycles that 30 00:01:13,465 --> 00:01:17,935 you've seen and the level of cycles you've seen repeat themselves from 31 00:01:17,935 --> 00:01:21,325 2002, where everybody thinks it's always innovation, but it's like 32 00:01:21,325 --> 00:01:23,155 reinvention back to what it was. 33 00:01:23,410 --> 00:01:23,680 yeah, 34 00:01:24,190 --> 00:01:24,910 The wisdom too. 35 00:01:24,910 --> 00:01:26,530 That's why you have all the gray hairs in your beard. 36 00:01:26,530 --> 00:01:26,890 Right? 37 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:28,480 Head is from stress. 38 00:01:28,510 --> 00:01:29,770 Beard is from wisdom. 39 00:01:30,430 --> 00:01:31,720 Uh, well I'll go with that. 40 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,060 'cause I've not got really that many gray hairs on my head yet. 41 00:01:34,060 --> 00:01:35,740 They just seem to sort of be beard only. 42 00:01:35,740 --> 00:01:36,100 So, 43 00:01:36,340 --> 00:01:39,100 that's why I shaved my head because if I did, I have assuming 44 00:01:39,100 --> 00:01:40,420 I would have a whole lot more. 45 00:01:41,350 --> 00:01:42,730 yeah, you've got the opposite problem. 46 00:01:42,730 --> 00:01:42,850 Is 47 00:01:42,940 --> 00:01:45,430 And then I have like one gray patch right here where I'm like, 48 00:01:45,430 --> 00:01:48,970 look, I got, I got, I got my first wisdom stripe coming in at 41. 49 00:01:50,080 --> 00:01:50,830 Oh, brilliant. 50 00:01:50,830 --> 00:01:54,190 Well, there's not that, I mean, I'm, I'm in my early fifties now, so 51 00:01:54,190 --> 00:01:55,630 there's not that many years between us, 52 00:01:55,885 --> 00:01:56,275 Yeah. 53 00:01:57,040 --> 00:01:57,580 yeah, it's funny. 54 00:01:57,580 --> 00:02:00,790 Someone said to me the other day a, a great phrase that I heard. 55 00:02:01,900 --> 00:02:03,760 nothing exists in a vacuum, right? 56 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,180 Everything, everything in effect is just history repeating itself. 57 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:11,440 And, um, I, I'm always intrigued. 58 00:02:11,470 --> 00:02:15,550 I don't know you've seen the same thing, George, but I'm always intrigued by. 59 00:02:15,955 --> 00:02:21,385 Those in e-com always looking for something new. 60 00:02:21,445 --> 00:02:25,585 You know, like the latest silver bullet actually e-comm for me is 61 00:02:25,585 --> 00:02:29,365 just doing old school marketing principles really, really well. 62 00:02:29,590 --> 00:02:31,660 Mm-hmm. 63 00:02:31,900 --> 00:02:32,020 Mm-hmm. 64 00:02:32,215 --> 00:02:32,815 haven't changed. 65 00:02:32,815 --> 00:02:35,170 Just the, the way we communicate it maybe has. 66 00:02:36,850 --> 00:02:39,430 I couldn't agree more, and this is the hardest part. 67 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,900 People lose because they chase the dopamine, because success in 68 00:02:43,900 --> 00:02:47,680 e-comm is simple because it can be scheduled, but it's boring. 69 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:52,540 So people get really distracted with that dopamine or that shiny thing, 70 00:02:52,540 --> 00:02:54,251 and they always end up right back. 71 00:02:55,555 --> 00:02:57,355 To where they belonged in the first place. 72 00:02:57,355 --> 00:02:59,155 Like that's the thing that I've seen the most. 73 00:02:59,155 --> 00:03:02,335 It's like I even, I even joke with people, like I have this model I'll draw for 74 00:03:02,335 --> 00:03:04,015 them is like, what scaling looks like? 75 00:03:04,015 --> 00:03:05,845 And it's a Christmas tree, right? 76 00:03:05,845 --> 00:03:08,875 I'm like, 'cause even if you think about it, any e-comm people listening to 77 00:03:08,875 --> 00:03:13,465 this in the very beginning, Parkinson's law dictates that we can only focus 78 00:03:13,465 --> 00:03:14,785 on what actually moves the needle. 79 00:03:15,235 --> 00:03:16,915 Because if not, we're gonna go outta business, right? 80 00:03:16,915 --> 00:03:18,055 We're gonna let our investors down. 81 00:03:18,055 --> 00:03:19,195 We're not gonna sell through inventory. 82 00:03:19,195 --> 00:03:22,765 So like the trunk of the tree is like, okay, who do I serve? 83 00:03:23,170 --> 00:03:24,250 How do I serve them? 84 00:03:24,250 --> 00:03:26,380 What problem do I solve and what do I sell them? 85 00:03:26,410 --> 00:03:26,740 Right? 86 00:03:26,740 --> 00:03:31,690 And then we live in that bucket so frequently until something works, right? 87 00:03:31,690 --> 00:03:34,630 But like if an Instagram post doesn't work, you're like, gotta let it go. 88 00:03:34,630 --> 00:03:35,860 Gotta do another one, right? 89 00:03:35,860 --> 00:03:38,080 If that campaign didn't work, gotta let it go. 90 00:03:38,080 --> 00:03:38,920 Gotta do another one. 91 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:43,120 But then we get to the point where we get some space and then we try to go 92 00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,280 wide and we're like, oh, that's working. 93 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:47,020 So let's go do all these other things. 94 00:03:47,020 --> 00:03:49,630 And they build out like that first rung of the Christmas tree. 95 00:03:50,590 --> 00:03:53,620 And this happens at every single business and at revenue levels too. 96 00:03:53,620 --> 00:03:57,700 Like typically a hundred K, 500 K, a million, two and a half, five, 10. 97 00:03:57,700 --> 00:03:58,810 It's pretty predictable. 98 00:03:59,290 --> 00:04:03,220 So then they'll build out the base and then eventually they'll hit this 99 00:04:03,220 --> 00:04:06,250 ceiling and they'll stagnate and they're like, oh my God, what's happening? 100 00:04:06,790 --> 00:04:08,545 And they'll be like, what more do I add? 101 00:04:08,545 --> 00:04:09,700 And I always joke with them. 102 00:04:09,700 --> 00:04:12,340 I'm like, when was the last time you saw a rectangle Christmas tree? 103 00:04:12,940 --> 00:04:13,150 Yep. 104 00:04:13,390 --> 00:04:13,900 And they're like. 105 00:04:14,605 --> 00:04:18,534 Oh, and I was like, no, no, because what happens is you got so distracted 106 00:04:18,534 --> 00:04:22,314 with shiny bullets and all of it, you actually stopped doing the things 107 00:04:22,854 --> 00:04:24,114 that worked in the first place. 108 00:04:24,114 --> 00:04:26,004 So you have to trim back to the trunk. 109 00:04:26,395 --> 00:04:29,575 Let go of what didn't work, keep what did work, but protect 110 00:04:29,575 --> 00:04:31,224 that core of what's there. 111 00:04:31,224 --> 00:04:34,765 And, and that to your point, is the thing that I've seen more than 112 00:04:34,765 --> 00:04:36,085 anything, even with email, right? 113 00:04:36,085 --> 00:04:37,705 Like, do you remember a couple of years ago, everyone's 114 00:04:37,705 --> 00:04:39,325 like, email marketing's dead. 115 00:04:39,325 --> 00:04:41,094 I'm like, no, it's not 116 00:04:42,130 --> 00:04:42,419 Yeah. 117 00:04:42,684 --> 00:04:47,304 just like, it wasn't when it was Yahoo or MSN and it's like still here. 118 00:04:47,815 --> 00:04:49,945 And it's like, oh, but AI and blank. 119 00:04:49,945 --> 00:04:54,715 And instead of it being this like end world where I protect the foundation. 120 00:04:55,930 --> 00:04:58,390 And I'm willing to try something on top of it. 121 00:04:58,390 --> 00:05:01,840 As long as it doesn't sacrifice, to your point, my ability to 122 00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:05,650 execute the foundational strategies that work, then I'll do it. 123 00:05:06,460 --> 00:05:09,460 But it became this or world, and I think that's the place that I 124 00:05:09,460 --> 00:05:11,140 see people getting stuck the most. 125 00:05:11,140 --> 00:05:12,849 It's like organic or paid. 126 00:05:12,849 --> 00:05:17,320 I'm like actually paid requires organic to be successful in the long game. 127 00:05:18,099 --> 00:05:18,460 Right? 128 00:05:18,460 --> 00:05:19,990 And so I think that's how I see it. 129 00:05:20,710 --> 00:05:22,330 That's such, such wisdom. 130 00:05:22,420 --> 00:05:25,630 Uh, George, why I'm just aware of, we're, we're chatting away already. 131 00:05:25,990 --> 00:05:28,510 Just introduce yourself a little bit to the guests so they, 132 00:05:28,510 --> 00:05:29,469 they know who you're talking. 133 00:05:29,469 --> 00:05:32,020 I know who I'm talking to, but maybe not everyone else does. 134 00:05:32,050 --> 00:05:33,849 So just give us a little bit about yourself. 135 00:05:34,045 --> 00:05:35,935 You know, I, I feel called in this moment. 136 00:05:35,935 --> 00:05:38,485 I don't have business cards, but I have a poker chip in my pocket. 137 00:05:38,485 --> 00:05:40,135 It's pink 'cause my favorite color's pink. 138 00:05:40,135 --> 00:05:45,594 And it says your most valuable liability is what's on my actual business card. 139 00:05:45,594 --> 00:05:47,695 I just label myself your most valuable liability. 140 00:05:47,724 --> 00:05:48,625 'cause at this point I. 141 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:49,539 is such a great phrase. 142 00:05:50,020 --> 00:05:51,969 I think I've done so much. 143 00:05:52,645 --> 00:05:55,164 In such a short or compressed amount of time. 144 00:05:55,164 --> 00:05:58,284 But you know, I, I tell everybody that like, I'm a dad first. 145 00:05:58,284 --> 00:06:01,494 I'm an incredible partner and friend, but like, what I have a passion for is 146 00:06:01,494 --> 00:06:05,905 helping entrepreneurs who actually care about their customers and their results 147 00:06:05,905 --> 00:06:07,794 scale their business to change the world. 148 00:06:08,309 --> 00:06:11,549 And I've been blessed to help scale hundreds of companies to 149 00:06:11,549 --> 00:06:13,349 7, 8, 9, and two to a billion. 150 00:06:13,349 --> 00:06:15,119 And some of them people know Vital Proteins. 151 00:06:15,119 --> 00:06:18,689 I helped and on it, I've helped 20 authors become New York Times bestsellers 152 00:06:18,689 --> 00:06:22,919 and God made me gifted to be the oz behind everybody else's curtain. 153 00:06:23,309 --> 00:06:25,889 That's where he put my ego 'cause I was in front of it too. 154 00:06:25,889 --> 00:06:27,780 I, I also have this dirty little secret. 155 00:06:27,780 --> 00:06:30,449 I was a New York Times bestselling cookbook author, and I had a number 156 00:06:30,449 --> 00:06:33,330 one app in the world and I had a million social media followers. 157 00:06:33,330 --> 00:06:33,840 And then. 158 00:06:34,675 --> 00:06:38,305 I had a godly experience and he called me back to integrity. 159 00:06:38,305 --> 00:06:41,785 So I deleted all the followers, gave away the company, changed 160 00:06:41,785 --> 00:06:43,015 my phone number, and disappeared. 161 00:06:43,015 --> 00:06:45,895 So like I, I've kind of walked in this from physical 162 00:06:45,895 --> 00:06:47,545 products to digital products. 163 00:06:47,545 --> 00:06:52,344 And what I focus on so heavily is relationships, customer journey, 164 00:06:52,375 --> 00:06:56,125 and the mindset required to have the results that we desire, right? 165 00:06:56,125 --> 00:06:58,435 And one of the things that I say to people is like, you don't have the 166 00:06:58,435 --> 00:07:01,435 business you want because you haven't become the person to run it yet. 167 00:07:02,170 --> 00:07:02,590 Right. 168 00:07:02,650 --> 00:07:05,409 Like you can't scale your business till you scale yourself first. 169 00:07:05,409 --> 00:07:10,150 And I think people look at mindset and they think it's this like 170 00:07:10,510 --> 00:07:13,780 woowoo thing or something I don't need to joke with or need to do. 171 00:07:13,780 --> 00:07:15,610 But I always look at it for sports fans too. 172 00:07:15,610 --> 00:07:20,920 Like whether you have like American or UK listeners, like I can take 173 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,880 a high school rugby player and I can put him on a professional 174 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:26,290 rugby field with the playbook. 175 00:07:26,290 --> 00:07:28,990 He'll have the same plays that other team has, but he can't 176 00:07:28,990 --> 00:07:30,550 execute them at the same level. 177 00:07:31,299 --> 00:07:32,770 Eventually it can become it. 178 00:07:32,770 --> 00:07:36,700 And when I think about entrepreneurs is we try to get all these playbooks, 179 00:07:37,090 --> 00:07:41,200 but we never ask ourselves like how do we become the player to execute that 180 00:07:41,200 --> 00:07:42,969 playbook at the level where it matters? 181 00:07:42,969 --> 00:07:47,109 And so like I just have a soft spot in my heart for helping people do that. 182 00:07:47,109 --> 00:07:50,590 And I've accidentally helped scale a couple hundred companies 183 00:07:50,594 --> 00:07:54,099 and it turns out customer journey is a really important topic that 184 00:07:54,099 --> 00:07:55,569 makes a big difference for people. 185 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:56,799 Yeah, no doubt. 186 00:07:56,799 --> 00:07:57,760 I, I love this phrase. 187 00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:59,409 I've accidentally helped people scale. 188 00:08:00,369 --> 00:08:04,330 you've definitely helped companies scale, uh, to, to, to larger figures than me. 189 00:08:05,229 --> 00:08:07,570 but it's, I I'm intrigued. 190 00:08:07,570 --> 00:08:09,729 Uh, your journey is quite unique, right? 191 00:08:09,789 --> 00:08:12,940 Uh, and, and the path that you've been on that the experiences that you've 192 00:08:12,940 --> 00:08:17,559 had and with what you do now, and just the joy I think you have in life. 193 00:08:17,559 --> 00:08:19,119 You know, the real sort of passion for. 194 00:08:19,419 --> 00:08:23,109 Just for being alive and being around people is, is contagious in many ways. 195 00:08:24,549 --> 00:08:26,080 What do you see the biggest mistake? 196 00:08:26,320 --> 00:08:31,239 Um, if there was, you know, like one thing that you see every entrepreneur 197 00:08:31,419 --> 00:08:35,799 or young and aspiring entrepreneur make when they're building or trying to 198 00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:36,941 build their empires, what would it be? 199 00:08:37,970 --> 00:08:40,000 Chasing profit instead of purpose. 200 00:08:40,960 --> 00:08:41,350 Okay. 201 00:08:41,530 --> 00:08:42,580 Uh, do you wanna dig into that? 202 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:44,500 I, I would love to dig into that. 203 00:08:44,740 --> 00:08:54,265 Um, it's a really, really interesting topic because I. What I see is most 204 00:08:54,265 --> 00:08:59,515 people falling into this trap of cha chasing success instead of significance. 205 00:08:59,515 --> 00:09:04,075 And if you look at the world, what you'll find is, you know, entrepreneurs, like 206 00:09:04,075 --> 00:09:06,835 I always joke with people, I was like, you can always tell an entrepreneur 207 00:09:06,835 --> 00:09:10,615 because they'll have an exit and then 30 days later you'll read a news article 208 00:09:10,615 --> 00:09:12,055 about them launching another company. 209 00:09:12,595 --> 00:09:13,945 Launching another company, right? 210 00:09:13,945 --> 00:09:17,905 Like, and one of the things that I say to people is that. 211 00:09:18,250 --> 00:09:22,750 We spend our life convincing ourselves that we're building this business because 212 00:09:22,750 --> 00:09:24,550 we want more time, money, or freedom. 213 00:09:25,300 --> 00:09:28,900 But when in actuality the business is distraction and we're avoiding 214 00:09:28,900 --> 00:09:31,450 the one relationship we're guaranteed to spend the rest of our life 215 00:09:31,450 --> 00:09:32,620 with, which is ourself, right? 216 00:09:32,620 --> 00:09:35,680 Like our kids don't want us working, they want us home, right? 217 00:09:35,680 --> 00:09:38,080 And I'm like, oh, I'm doing it for my family, my eight year old's like, 218 00:09:38,170 --> 00:09:39,280 dad, I don't care about the business. 219 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:40,330 Like, can we go to the skate park? 220 00:09:40,390 --> 00:09:40,750 Right? 221 00:09:40,750 --> 00:09:41,020 Yeah. 222 00:09:41,170 --> 00:09:41,440 Yeah. 223 00:09:42,280 --> 00:09:45,130 And so there's this semblance of understanding that like. 224 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:47,140 Success in itself. 225 00:09:47,140 --> 00:09:51,325 I think the metrics that people chase set them up to lose by playing the short game. 226 00:09:51,775 --> 00:09:53,785 They think that success is a hockey stick. 227 00:09:54,295 --> 00:09:57,325 They think that it's this, like the one funnel that's gonna work 228 00:09:57,325 --> 00:09:58,855 or this product's gonna pop. 229 00:09:58,915 --> 00:10:03,265 But in actuality, you, you kind of make the game harder on yourself because 230 00:10:03,265 --> 00:10:07,375 you don't get to learn the lessons that allow you to keep, continue to grow, 231 00:10:07,375 --> 00:10:09,865 scale, build the team to pass those on. 232 00:10:09,865 --> 00:10:14,455 And you know, for you and I, both men of faith, one of the prayers that I, or 233 00:10:14,485 --> 00:10:18,415 phrases I wrote down on my wall for years is I oftentimes prayed to God for things. 234 00:10:18,415 --> 00:10:20,665 I didn't have the character and scars to maintain. 235 00:10:21,135 --> 00:10:21,415 Yeah. 236 00:10:21,850 --> 00:10:25,330 And even from my own e-commerce businesses, there were ones where 237 00:10:25,330 --> 00:10:29,500 like we hit a million easily and then we didn't grow past that point. 238 00:10:29,500 --> 00:10:32,710 We started to sabotage into it because we didn't have the character 239 00:10:32,710 --> 00:10:34,420 and the experience and the wisdom 240 00:10:35,140 --> 00:10:38,350 or even the know-how to call somebody who did to bring them in. 241 00:10:39,310 --> 00:10:43,810 And so when you think about success, you'll find that people will hit success. 242 00:10:44,710 --> 00:10:45,940 The cost of everything. 243 00:10:46,150 --> 00:10:48,880 They won't build a business to support their life. 244 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,360 They'll sacrifice their life to build a business, and then they'll look back and 245 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,340 realize they don't get that life back. 246 00:10:55,030 --> 00:10:57,820 And then a few of them get inspired at whatever age. 247 00:10:57,820 --> 00:11:01,600 Typically, it's some catalystic moment of like midlife crisis, 248 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:04,480 trauma, death, or just emptiness. 249 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:06,850 And you're like, oh, I need to go do something with this. 250 00:11:06,910 --> 00:11:08,410 And then significance follows. 251 00:11:08,410 --> 00:11:09,760 But here's the craziest part. 252 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:11,680 When you prioritize significance. 253 00:11:12,325 --> 00:11:14,725 Success always follows significance. 254 00:11:15,325 --> 00:11:17,905 And so it's just prioritizing the right things. 255 00:11:17,905 --> 00:11:21,205 And even when I think about building a company or building a mission, like it's 256 00:11:21,205 --> 00:11:23,275 totally fine to be driven by revenue. 257 00:11:23,785 --> 00:11:27,025 Revenue is the vehicle that allows you to spread that mission and that vision. 258 00:11:27,745 --> 00:11:30,385 But also when you think about the most successful companies in the 259 00:11:30,385 --> 00:11:34,015 world, they're not built that way because people feel transacted with. 260 00:11:34,585 --> 00:11:37,375 They're built that way because people feel transformed by them. 261 00:11:37,375 --> 00:11:39,745 Like Nike's billboard doesn't say Just do it. 262 00:11:39,745 --> 00:11:41,335 Only if you wear our running shoes, 263 00:11:41,845 --> 00:11:42,535 just do it. 264 00:11:42,535 --> 00:11:44,425 Only if you run a five minute mile. 265 00:11:44,485 --> 00:11:44,695 Right? 266 00:11:44,695 --> 00:11:46,705 Like, they're like, just do it. 267 00:11:47,095 --> 00:11:47,305 Right. 268 00:11:47,305 --> 00:11:49,195 We'll leave the sweatshop conversation out of this. 269 00:11:49,195 --> 00:11:51,745 But like, you know, morals and ethics aside. 270 00:11:52,165 --> 00:11:52,455 Yeah. 271 00:11:53,245 --> 00:11:56,875 Just like all of us have had experiences where we've been in companies or 272 00:11:56,875 --> 00:11:57,985 we've been a part of something. 273 00:11:57,985 --> 00:12:00,385 Like if we think about car dealerships, at least in the us 274 00:12:00,385 --> 00:12:01,735 everyone's like, God, I hate going. 275 00:12:01,735 --> 00:12:02,875 They like play games with me. 276 00:12:02,875 --> 00:12:05,035 They make me feel like crap, they transact with me. 277 00:12:05,035 --> 00:12:06,535 They're trying to get more money outta me. 278 00:12:07,615 --> 00:12:08,455 We forget that. 279 00:12:08,455 --> 00:12:14,035 Like when we look at success, most of the success that people prioritize as revenue. 280 00:12:14,830 --> 00:12:18,220 Revenue is a byproduct of a successful relationship. 281 00:12:19,030 --> 00:12:22,870 A relationship is a byproduct of you actually helping somebody get results. 282 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:27,160 And then when you help somebody get results, you build a relationship. 283 00:12:27,160 --> 00:12:30,430 When you build a relationship, they make referrals and also pay you revenue. 284 00:12:30,430 --> 00:12:33,970 And so I find that like even looking at it the right way is like. 285 00:12:34,780 --> 00:12:38,410 There's nothing wrong with wanting to sell a product or having a clothing brand, or 286 00:12:38,410 --> 00:12:42,070 even selling a supplement and not like thinking you're gonna go be Mother Teresa, 287 00:12:42,070 --> 00:12:45,730 but ensuring that the thing that you're making is tied to a bigger purpose or 288 00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:49,750 tied to a bigger mission where maybe the mission is we're gonna sell this product 289 00:12:49,750 --> 00:12:52,600 so that we can support our employees, or we can give them time, money, 290 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:54,520 freedom, or location freedom, right? 291 00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:56,830 Like there has to be a deeper meaning. 292 00:12:56,830 --> 00:12:59,110 And, and this is why I love Mike Michalowicz as an author. 293 00:12:59,110 --> 00:13:01,900 He also has this book called All In, which is, is really how 294 00:13:01,900 --> 00:13:03,310 to build an incredible team. 295 00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:07,600 One of the things that he highlights out of it is the shared vision, right? 296 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:11,080 Like there's this vision piece of like, even if you're gonna build and 297 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:14,620 scale an e-commerce company, like you need to have some semblance of 298 00:13:15,370 --> 00:13:17,050 idea of where you're shooting for. 299 00:13:17,650 --> 00:13:18,430 And so I think. 300 00:13:19,195 --> 00:13:22,645 The biggest way that I would describe and summarize that, you know, mini 301 00:13:22,645 --> 00:13:26,905 TED talk that I gave, is that when you end up chasing success instead of 302 00:13:26,905 --> 00:13:31,555 significance, you end up measuring in days instead of decades, and it inhibits 303 00:13:31,555 --> 00:13:35,335 your ability to grow because you're too reactive to what's happening in 304 00:13:35,335 --> 00:13:39,295 the day to day, and you don't have a picture of what's happening in the macro. 305 00:13:39,685 --> 00:13:40,015 Yeah. 306 00:13:40,375 --> 00:13:41,365 That's so powerful. 307 00:13:41,605 --> 00:13:43,525 I've got, there's so much there. 308 00:13:43,525 --> 00:13:46,525 George, I, I'm kind of curious, is this a, do you think this 309 00:13:46,525 --> 00:13:47,575 is a bit of an age thing? 310 00:13:47,575 --> 00:13:50,965 Because I, as you're talking about significance and success, I remember 311 00:13:51,835 --> 00:13:56,245 someone said to me, a very wise chap once said to me, in your, 312 00:13:56,245 --> 00:13:59,695 the first 40, first 40 years of your life, it's all about success. 313 00:14:00,595 --> 00:14:03,055 You hit 40 and it's all about significance. 314 00:14:03,265 --> 00:14:06,325 And it's like there's this shift that happens as you get older. 315 00:14:07,435 --> 00:14:14,335 And I, I kind of listened to that and I, as I've got older and, you know, 316 00:14:14,335 --> 00:14:19,465 as my kids have got older and I've got more embedded into my marriage, 317 00:14:20,395 --> 00:14:24,025 I think my definition of success is very, very different to what it was 318 00:14:24,025 --> 00:14:26,035 when I was in my early twenties. 319 00:14:26,065 --> 00:14:27,355 You know, very, very different. 320 00:14:28,330 --> 00:14:31,420 And so I'm listening to you talk and going, don't think it's as simple as 321 00:14:31,420 --> 00:14:36,910 it's just an age thing, but I think is this thing with age that makes you see 322 00:14:36,910 --> 00:14:39,370 things differently, rightly or wrongly. 323 00:14:40,105 --> 00:14:44,185 I agree, but I don't know if I would submit that it's an age thing. 324 00:14:44,185 --> 00:14:46,075 I'd think I would submit. 325 00:14:46,075 --> 00:14:49,045 It's more of a values based perspective, 326 00:14:49,270 --> 00:14:49,480 Yeah. 327 00:14:49,485 --> 00:14:49,510 I. 328 00:14:50,065 --> 00:14:50,335 right? 329 00:14:50,335 --> 00:14:53,725 Because like I have, I have one of my clients right now who's 26 years 330 00:14:53,725 --> 00:14:58,105 old, like I'm 41, and he runs circles around me with significance and impact. 331 00:14:58,105 --> 00:15:01,615 Like he's like wanting to save the world and do this, and I was like. 332 00:15:02,320 --> 00:15:04,840 And how'd you go from drug dealer to this? 333 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:10,150 And you know, it's like a funny story that we tell, but I think what it really 334 00:15:10,150 --> 00:15:16,780 boils down to is I think age would be a really easy metric to potentially look at. 335 00:15:16,780 --> 00:15:22,689 But what I really think is underneath it is self-identity and values, right? 336 00:15:22,689 --> 00:15:26,920 Like knowing oneself and like what genuinely lights you up and brings you. 337 00:15:27,655 --> 00:15:31,105 Joy in the world, but then also what are those things that you value? 338 00:15:31,105 --> 00:15:36,595 And I know for me, I didn't realize how much I valued time until the 339 00:15:36,595 --> 00:15:42,445 business that I had built and my son came along, cost me 160 flights a year 340 00:15:42,445 --> 00:15:44,005 and missing three years of his life. 341 00:15:44,005 --> 00:15:47,785 Well, now I takes an act of Congress to get me on an airplane outta Montana. 342 00:15:48,850 --> 00:15:49,750 And they're like, what are you doing? 343 00:15:49,750 --> 00:15:50,800 I'm like, I'll do it remotely. 344 00:15:50,830 --> 00:15:51,670 I'll do it remotely. 345 00:15:51,670 --> 00:15:54,040 And I'm like, he's laying eight feet away from me right now. 346 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:55,690 And they're like, oh, I heard him in the background. 347 00:15:55,690 --> 00:15:56,560 I'm like, great, leave it in. 348 00:15:56,560 --> 00:15:59,080 Like it's, it's, we're we're a combo package. 349 00:16:00,010 --> 00:16:00,370 Right. 350 00:16:00,370 --> 00:16:03,640 But I think that there was this perspective shift and there was a season 351 00:16:03,640 --> 00:16:05,860 before him where like, I didn't value time 352 00:16:06,490 --> 00:16:08,320 because I thought I had an unlimited amount of it. 353 00:16:08,320 --> 00:16:11,590 And that's even crazier because I was an active duty marine for 13 years in 354 00:16:11,590 --> 00:16:13,540 my life, like two combat deployments. 355 00:16:13,570 --> 00:16:13,990 And. 356 00:16:14,860 --> 00:16:18,430 I thought that shifted my perspective of like, oh, I've seen death and I've been 357 00:16:18,430 --> 00:16:20,020 to places I shouldn't have come back from. 358 00:16:20,020 --> 00:16:21,580 Like I really value time. 359 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:22,120 Nope. 360 00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:25,600 I was just a right matter of time before I was back to old habits, 361 00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:27,160 and it took me having a son. 362 00:16:27,745 --> 00:16:30,385 To really, really recognize what I value. 363 00:16:30,385 --> 00:16:35,635 So I think, I think what it boils down to for me is that like willingness to 364 00:16:35,635 --> 00:16:39,265 look in the mirror and, and be really radically honest with ourselves. 365 00:16:39,295 --> 00:16:42,565 'cause I also have friends that truthfully, they're like, my 366 00:16:42,565 --> 00:16:44,035 life is to be an entrepreneur. 367 00:16:44,245 --> 00:16:45,865 I don't want kids, I don't want blank. 368 00:16:45,865 --> 00:16:48,745 Like I just love being in the grind. 369 00:16:48,805 --> 00:16:50,365 And I'm like, well, I love you for sat. 370 00:16:50,395 --> 00:16:51,265 I will support you. 371 00:16:51,265 --> 00:16:51,955 I'll make you dinner. 372 00:16:51,955 --> 00:16:52,285 Right? 373 00:16:52,285 --> 00:16:54,445 But like, I'm not gonna come work on the computer with you. 374 00:16:54,895 --> 00:16:58,675 But I think it really boils down to, to being radically honest with oneself 375 00:16:58,675 --> 00:17:01,945 about what's important to you, what brings you joy, what lights you up. 376 00:17:02,425 --> 00:17:05,275 And also not shaming yourself for having those beliefs. 377 00:17:05,305 --> 00:17:08,305 And then number two is really like, what is it that you value? 378 00:17:08,484 --> 00:17:11,724 Because I go back now and I look at like the mentors I've 379 00:17:11,724 --> 00:17:12,835 had in my life, and I'm like. 380 00:17:13,464 --> 00:17:18,535 Man, if I just listened to them 10 years ago and I didn't fight so hard, and I 381 00:17:18,535 --> 00:17:22,944 was like, but then my journey is the guy who will self-knowledge that I won't 382 00:17:22,944 --> 00:17:25,555 learn unless I fall on my own face. 383 00:17:26,175 --> 00:17:26,464 Yeah. 384 00:17:26,829 --> 00:17:29,919 It's never big enough for me to shift, and so I just kind of had to 385 00:17:29,919 --> 00:17:32,770 fall in love with I'm the God that's gonna smack my face into the wall and 386 00:17:33,280 --> 00:17:35,560 hopefully pass that wisdom down to somebody else. 387 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:39,879 But I think, I think it really just boils down to the things that we value in the 388 00:17:39,879 --> 00:17:44,710 world and, and our willingness to explore those things with curiosity instead 389 00:17:44,710 --> 00:17:48,730 of being so either dogmatic or locked into how we think we'd view the world. 390 00:17:49,809 --> 00:17:54,610 well, I, I'm loving this conversation, uh, 'cause we'd not planned it. 391 00:17:54,610 --> 00:17:59,229 And two, I, i, I very fortuitous timing one, one might argue, 392 00:17:59,709 --> 00:18:01,959 um, I wrote quite a lengthy uh. 393 00:18:03,189 --> 00:18:05,919 Article about purpose and values on Friday, 394 00:18:06,295 --> 00:18:07,015 Mm. 395 00:18:07,629 --> 00:18:10,959 one of the things that came out in the research, um, and 396 00:18:10,959 --> 00:18:12,129 maybe we can talk about this, 397 00:18:12,295 --> 00:18:12,775 Mm-hmm. 398 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:18,759 of consumers now, so one in two consumers actively, not 399 00:18:18,759 --> 00:18:21,189 passively, but actively distrust. 400 00:18:21,790 --> 00:18:24,280 Corporations purpose claims, right. 401 00:18:24,820 --> 00:18:29,470 So I talk about, um, Wells Fargo had the purpose statement about helping customers 402 00:18:29,470 --> 00:18:33,580 succeed financially while simultaneously opening three and a half fraudulent, 403 00:18:33,610 --> 00:18:36,250 uh, three and a half million fraudulent accounts in their customers' names. 404 00:18:36,940 --> 00:18:40,090 Um, Boeing claimed to prioritize innovation and 405 00:18:40,090 --> 00:18:41,770 safety while cutting corners. 406 00:18:42,130 --> 00:18:46,930 Uh, and, you know, the, the, the inevitable, uh, happens. 407 00:18:47,380 --> 00:18:53,019 Um, there, there's, there's a, there's a. Littering of companies which have 408 00:18:53,019 --> 00:18:57,340 had these sort of purpose driven ideals because we thought that's what we needed. 409 00:18:57,340 --> 00:18:59,889 'cause that's what Patagonia did in Tom's shoes, right? 410 00:19:00,639 --> 00:19:02,739 Um, but it's got to the stage now. 411 00:19:02,739 --> 00:19:05,229 One in two just actively distrust it. 412 00:19:08,289 --> 00:19:10,384 I think that's quite, that's quite telling isn't it? 413 00:19:11,124 --> 00:19:11,949 A thousand percent. 414 00:19:12,550 --> 00:19:13,509 A thousand percent. 415 00:19:13,540 --> 00:19:16,959 I also think it's quite exciting 'cause I'll never not have a job, 416 00:19:22,195 --> 00:19:22,315 Yeah. 417 00:19:22,375 --> 00:19:24,055 This, the market's getting bigger. 418 00:19:24,370 --> 00:19:26,469 just to be radically honest, like. 419 00:19:27,745 --> 00:19:32,155 I, I was genuinely in a meeting the other day with a private client who, 420 00:19:32,274 --> 00:19:35,695 who builds custom homes and, you know, they went from 2 million to 8 million. 421 00:19:35,695 --> 00:19:39,955 And, and like one of the first things I said to 'em was like, values are not words 422 00:19:39,955 --> 00:19:45,685 that you paste on as wallpaper values are words for people to describe how you are 423 00:19:45,685 --> 00:19:47,935 being when you're no longer in the room. 424 00:19:49,524 --> 00:19:52,014 And he's like, oh. 425 00:19:52,014 --> 00:19:54,114 And I was like, that's what you've embodied, which is why 426 00:19:54,114 --> 00:19:55,554 you've scaled the company, right? 427 00:19:55,554 --> 00:19:57,145 Like, it's no different than a parent. 428 00:19:57,460 --> 00:19:57,850 Yep. 429 00:19:58,254 --> 00:20:00,745 Like, or a colleague or a business partner. 430 00:20:00,745 --> 00:20:04,254 It's like, and, and I hate to say this, but like the amount of 431 00:20:04,254 --> 00:20:08,095 personal trainers I've hired, I was a hundred pounds overweight. 432 00:20:08,784 --> 00:20:11,695 If they were 300 pounds overweight, telling me that I needed to 433 00:20:11,695 --> 00:20:14,245 eat different and move my body, I would've had a hard time 434 00:20:14,845 --> 00:20:16,195 like justifying like, 435 00:20:16,465 --> 00:20:16,644 Yeah. 436 00:20:16,644 --> 00:20:16,854 Yep. 437 00:20:17,215 --> 00:20:20,754 and, and not even because it's bad and wrong if the position is like. 438 00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:23,139 Hey, I live this way, so go do it. 439 00:20:23,139 --> 00:20:25,149 But if they were like, Hey, I don't live this way. 440 00:20:25,149 --> 00:20:28,210 I'm just telling you I want you to avoid the pain, I would've listened differently. 441 00:20:28,210 --> 00:20:28,510 Right? 442 00:20:28,510 --> 00:20:31,750 There's this embodiment piece to where even, you know, one of the 443 00:20:31,750 --> 00:20:35,110 core things I do with my clients, especially like physical products, 444 00:20:35,110 --> 00:20:38,950 brands, when we're helping them scale, is building a movement, 445 00:20:38,950 --> 00:20:40,960 which is truthfully an ethical cult. 446 00:20:40,990 --> 00:20:42,520 It's a shared belief system. 447 00:20:43,034 --> 00:20:45,435 Of like, you know, what's the impact we wanna make? 448 00:20:45,435 --> 00:20:46,575 Like what do we stand for? 449 00:20:46,575 --> 00:20:47,715 What is our belief system? 450 00:20:47,715 --> 00:20:47,925 Right? 451 00:20:47,925 --> 00:20:51,705 Like even at Vital Proteins, it, it wasn't people that wanted to buy collagen. 452 00:20:51,735 --> 00:20:54,165 'cause nobody wants to eat the hide of a cow. 453 00:20:54,764 --> 00:20:58,004 That's not like, oh, let me wake up and put cow hide in my coffee cup. 454 00:20:58,004 --> 00:20:58,245 Right? 455 00:20:58,245 --> 00:20:59,595 Like, that's not what we're marketing. 456 00:20:59,595 --> 00:21:03,135 It's like they want to have healthier hair, skin and nails. 457 00:21:03,135 --> 00:21:03,375 Right. 458 00:21:03,375 --> 00:21:05,325 Or like even at on, at the supplement company. 459 00:21:05,325 --> 00:21:08,325 Yeah, there were hundreds of products and what, but what everybody 460 00:21:08,325 --> 00:21:11,534 wanted was to be the person who was totally optimized as a human. 461 00:21:12,325 --> 00:21:15,865 Or even in my world, you know, when you go to my website, which by the 462 00:21:15,865 --> 00:21:18,565 way, it's the Pinkest website you'll ever see 'cause it's my favorite color. 463 00:21:19,105 --> 00:21:20,425 Yeah, I love the color. 464 00:21:20,485 --> 00:21:24,445 Um, but it says, relationships beat algorithms because I only want you 465 00:21:24,445 --> 00:21:27,955 in my world if you genuinely believe that your relationships with people 466 00:21:27,955 --> 00:21:29,155 are more valuable than profit. 467 00:21:29,665 --> 00:21:30,985 If you don't like it. 468 00:21:31,570 --> 00:21:34,720 I'll love you out the door and there's a spot for you at the dinner table, but 469 00:21:34,720 --> 00:21:37,959 you come in acting like a douche and I'm gonna kick you back out the door. 470 00:21:38,020 --> 00:21:38,260 Right? 471 00:21:38,260 --> 00:21:39,699 Like, not tolerated here. 472 00:21:40,300 --> 00:21:43,720 And I think that that's the part that a lot of people miss is they 473 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:48,100 think that values or purpose or these words that we throw up on a wall and 474 00:21:48,100 --> 00:21:51,850 they're like, oh, give these to hr, let's, you know, boom, boom, boom. 475 00:21:51,850 --> 00:21:56,139 And you know, even with companies that we have, we're we're like, your 476 00:21:56,139 --> 00:21:58,990 values are literally the structure. 477 00:21:59,155 --> 00:22:02,395 It's like your human body and then the people that you put in and are 478 00:22:02,395 --> 00:22:05,784 the blood that pumps through your body to be able to run your business. 479 00:22:06,114 --> 00:22:09,145 And we're like, you hire and fire based on values 480 00:22:10,044 --> 00:22:13,344 and then those values turn into beliefs that are operating 481 00:22:13,344 --> 00:22:17,124 agreements for everybody to do, and then you train on skills. 482 00:22:17,844 --> 00:22:18,774 And they're like, huh? 483 00:22:18,834 --> 00:22:21,564 And I was like, yeah, you've been hiring on skills and wondering 484 00:22:21,564 --> 00:22:24,955 why there's this like broken osmosis throughout the the company. 485 00:22:24,955 --> 00:22:28,854 But you know, I think that's a benefit of me being a Marine for 13 years was like. 486 00:22:29,709 --> 00:22:33,429 We had such a small group of Marines, but everybody worked so 487 00:22:33,429 --> 00:22:37,570 cohesively together because they didn't train us how to be Marines. 488 00:22:37,570 --> 00:22:40,060 They trained us how to think and feel the same way. 489 00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:43,629 So then no matter what situation that we went into, there was 490 00:22:43,629 --> 00:22:45,129 like this embodied example. 491 00:22:45,129 --> 00:22:48,550 And so I, I genuinely look at that and I'm like, yep. 492 00:22:48,669 --> 00:22:51,280 And I wish the number was higher, because I think that that's 493 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:52,899 where the world truly changes. 494 00:22:52,899 --> 00:22:55,929 If there's enough of us that vote with our dollars and our attention. 495 00:22:57,429 --> 00:23:00,610 We utilize these things that we see of like, yeah, we're not supporting you. 496 00:23:00,789 --> 00:23:02,289 We don't believe in this anymore. 497 00:23:02,289 --> 00:23:04,120 We're gonna hold you to a different standard. 498 00:23:04,120 --> 00:23:06,969 I think it actually starts to change the conversation because 499 00:23:06,969 --> 00:23:10,570 when you got into e-comm, I miss how business was done in 2002. 500 00:23:11,350 --> 00:23:14,949 Like I miss pre-internet where like you had to call somebody and have to trust 501 00:23:14,949 --> 00:23:17,439 them and like reputation mattered, right? 502 00:23:17,439 --> 00:23:21,129 And you weren't like buying Google reviews or hiring Craigslist ads 503 00:23:21,129 --> 00:23:24,249 for 80 people to go review your product and lie to them, or you know, 504 00:23:24,249 --> 00:23:25,659 white labeling products everywhere. 505 00:23:25,659 --> 00:23:26,409 There was like this. 506 00:23:27,129 --> 00:23:31,120 Space for innovation and creativity, but underneath it, this massive 507 00:23:31,180 --> 00:23:33,070 invitation for connection, it was real, 508 00:23:33,639 --> 00:23:33,850 right? 509 00:23:33,850 --> 00:23:35,919 Like people were still connected and. 510 00:23:36,835 --> 00:23:40,165 I look at those things and just like I look at it for, you know, anybody 511 00:23:40,165 --> 00:23:43,885 listening to this who wonders why business is hard in 2025 right now, 512 00:23:43,885 --> 00:23:48,565 because for the same way that they don't trust corporations, they also 513 00:23:48,565 --> 00:23:51,805 don't trust anybody that they don't have a prior relationship with. 514 00:23:52,405 --> 00:23:55,285 We used to blindly buy products 'cause we'd see a Facebook ad 515 00:23:55,315 --> 00:23:56,575 like, oh, here's a hot sauce. 516 00:23:56,575 --> 00:23:57,865 I've never tried it before. 517 00:23:58,355 --> 00:24:02,825 Now it's right past our filter for our unconscious mind, because if we don't 518 00:24:02,825 --> 00:24:08,255 have established rapport or some semblance of endowment, we're so conditioned after 519 00:24:08,285 --> 00:24:12,335 COVID and all the ads and the transactions and the false influencer marketing to 520 00:24:12,335 --> 00:24:14,765 pass it by like it never even existed. 521 00:24:15,715 --> 00:24:20,514 The amount of evidence or touch points it takes to get into your ecosystem before 522 00:24:20,514 --> 00:24:23,995 ever buying has drastically increased. 523 00:24:24,385 --> 00:24:28,225 And so it's just this really interesting thing that I, I'm like, I'm stoked 524 00:24:28,225 --> 00:24:31,375 that you wrote a, a blog post or an article on it as well, because I think 525 00:24:31,375 --> 00:24:35,605 it's the things that we have to think about as founders, as entrepreneurs, 526 00:24:35,605 --> 00:24:37,435 as e-commerce owners, right? 527 00:24:38,365 --> 00:24:40,735 And trust what I love about it so much. 528 00:24:41,304 --> 00:24:43,435 It's the one thing that can't be faked. 529 00:24:44,785 --> 00:24:45,445 It's real. 530 00:24:45,625 --> 00:24:48,685 And like when people are like, well, I'm gonna go be authentic of like, 531 00:24:48,685 --> 00:24:52,015 newsflash, you're already being authentic whether you're pretending to or not. 532 00:24:52,015 --> 00:24:52,345 Right? 533 00:24:52,345 --> 00:24:54,745 So there is no like, let me be authentic. 534 00:24:55,344 --> 00:24:57,219 Yeah, that's so true. 535 00:24:58,015 --> 00:25:01,735 And so I, I look at, I look at that and I look at companies where like 536 00:25:01,735 --> 00:25:04,225 the ones that always win for us are the ones that are transparent. 537 00:25:04,225 --> 00:25:05,635 Like if we have a supply issue. 538 00:25:06,355 --> 00:25:08,995 We just open up and tell people we don't hide behind it. 539 00:25:08,995 --> 00:25:10,465 We don't hide behind optics. 540 00:25:10,465 --> 00:25:12,295 This isn't some PR campaign. 541 00:25:12,295 --> 00:25:16,225 It's like we're in this with you and I, I think what people forget 542 00:25:16,225 --> 00:25:20,305 when it comes to companies is that companies are two-way relationships. 543 00:25:21,144 --> 00:25:24,594 They're not a one-way dictatorship because without your customers, the 544 00:25:24,594 --> 00:25:26,485 bloodline of your business doesn't exist. 545 00:25:26,485 --> 00:25:30,475 But what happens is, another mistake that I see people make is that they 546 00:25:30,475 --> 00:25:34,704 turn off that pipeline and expect it to be their way or the highway. 547 00:25:34,824 --> 00:25:38,245 But truthfully, the success of your business boils down to the feedback loop 548 00:25:38,245 --> 00:25:39,745 that you're getting with your customers 549 00:25:40,229 --> 00:25:42,654 and the journey that you're taking them on with you, which 550 00:25:42,715 --> 00:25:44,364 so much is like being a parent. 551 00:25:45,205 --> 00:25:45,805 We have a vision. 552 00:25:45,805 --> 00:25:47,665 Both of our daughters are the same age, right? 553 00:25:47,785 --> 00:25:50,725 But we have a vision for what we want their life to look like and and 554 00:25:50,725 --> 00:25:52,405 how we want them to view the world. 555 00:25:52,405 --> 00:25:56,305 Well, news flashes, dads, we don't get our way, but we just create bumpers and 556 00:25:56,305 --> 00:25:59,425 we catch them with a safety net in the process, and then they give us feedback. 557 00:25:59,425 --> 00:26:02,155 They push back, they lean in harder. 558 00:26:02,529 --> 00:26:04,239 It's the same with our customers. 559 00:26:04,239 --> 00:26:06,519 It's the same with our physical products companies. 560 00:26:06,519 --> 00:26:09,219 It's the same with our digital products companies, is that there's this 561 00:26:09,219 --> 00:26:13,539 two-way relationship, but everybody's fallen into the circumstance of 562 00:26:13,539 --> 00:26:15,489 thinking it's a one-way dictatorship 563 00:26:16,479 --> 00:26:18,489 and then that erodes trust as well. 564 00:26:18,550 --> 00:26:22,629 And it's, it's just an important way, in my opinion to like think about it. 565 00:26:22,779 --> 00:26:24,879 Like just even seeing it for what it is. 566 00:26:24,879 --> 00:26:27,399 And it's like if you go into a brick and mortar store. 567 00:26:28,465 --> 00:26:32,125 You'd never ignore somebody walking through the door to window 568 00:26:32,125 --> 00:26:35,605 shop, but yet when you take your business online, you're like, they 569 00:26:35,605 --> 00:26:36,655 haven't given me their credit card. 570 00:26:36,655 --> 00:26:38,245 How dare I respond to their comment? 571 00:26:38,245 --> 00:26:41,935 And I was like, well, let me know how that works if you were in person, right? 572 00:26:41,935 --> 00:26:46,465 Or you know, you walk into a restaurant and the hostess just stonewalls. 573 00:26:46,465 --> 00:26:47,274 You would ignore you. 574 00:26:47,335 --> 00:26:48,774 And you're like talking and talking. 575 00:26:48,774 --> 00:26:50,485 And I was like, are you gonna get a table there? 576 00:26:51,294 --> 00:26:52,195 And they're like, no. 577 00:26:52,195 --> 00:26:53,215 And I'm like, well, great. 578 00:26:53,215 --> 00:26:56,425 Kind of same thing, but there's all these examples of like to your 579 00:26:56,425 --> 00:27:01,465 previous point, successful marketing and business strategies that have 580 00:27:01,465 --> 00:27:03,415 always stood the test of time. 581 00:27:04,165 --> 00:27:08,034 And yet, for right now, it tends to be everybody wants the shiny bullet. 582 00:27:08,034 --> 00:27:11,310 They want the shortcut, but they don't realize the long term cost. 583 00:27:12,490 --> 00:27:16,240 Those are the things that are breaking the trust with corporations and companies. 584 00:27:16,240 --> 00:27:19,419 But the only thing that's maintaining it is going back to what we said at 585 00:27:19,419 --> 00:27:23,919 the beginning, which is the tried and true focus on people, build 586 00:27:23,919 --> 00:27:27,520 relationships, have conversations, and be willing to play the long game. 587 00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:27,580 I. 588 00:27:28,495 --> 00:27:29,905 Yeah, I totally agree. 589 00:27:29,905 --> 00:27:33,115 I think it's, um, it's an interesting one, isn't it? 590 00:27:33,115 --> 00:27:38,304 Because I think one of the things that I have that Amazon doesn't 591 00:27:38,304 --> 00:27:41,095 have, because this is a question I get asked a lot, George, right? 592 00:27:41,095 --> 00:27:43,705 Is like, do I compete against Amazon? 593 00:27:44,365 --> 00:27:49,300 Um, I. The answer in some respects comes down to pretty much what you've just said. 594 00:27:49,780 --> 00:27:51,550 The one thing Amazon doesn't have is me, 595 00:27:51,834 --> 00:27:52,284 Yep. 596 00:27:52,870 --> 00:27:53,260 right? 597 00:27:53,679 --> 00:27:56,590 They have, I have a relationship with Amazon, which is 598 00:27:56,590 --> 00:27:58,090 very transactional, right? 599 00:27:58,090 --> 00:28:01,689 They are a commodity trader and it is very transactional. 600 00:28:01,990 --> 00:28:05,860 And at the moment I'm happy to use them because it's convenient. 601 00:28:05,860 --> 00:28:10,479 It's, you know, it does what it says on the tin, but I have no loyalty to Amazon. 602 00:28:10,479 --> 00:28:14,560 If someone came along tomorrow, um, and did it better, or if. 603 00:28:15,580 --> 00:28:20,110 Without getting too political, Jeff Bezos decides to become the leading 604 00:28:20,110 --> 00:28:23,979 spokesman for the liberal party, the opposite of Musk, for example. 605 00:28:25,179 --> 00:28:26,649 We've seen what's happened to Tesla 606 00:28:26,989 --> 00:28:27,209 Yep. 607 00:28:27,580 --> 00:28:32,679 there, and you just kind of go, well, there's no loyalty there as such, there 608 00:28:32,679 --> 00:28:35,679 is, but it, I, I, I'm not that bothered. 609 00:28:36,580 --> 00:28:41,320 Whereas, um, in my hand I have, uh, a pen from Tom's studio. 610 00:28:42,565 --> 00:28:46,525 I, I'm, I'm much more loyal to Tom and Tom's not Amazon, right? 611 00:28:46,555 --> 00:28:51,685 He, and this is the thing that we, I think in eCommerce, it's hard to try and 612 00:28:51,685 --> 00:28:56,485 get across to people that actually what drives you, what light to your language, 613 00:28:56,485 --> 00:28:59,725 what likes you, what, what your values are, what you actually do in the business, 614 00:28:59,725 --> 00:29:01,195 and the difference that you make. 615 00:29:02,605 --> 00:29:03,145 Well, that's what. 616 00:29:04,450 --> 00:29:07,900 If you find a tribe of people that connect with that and form a relationship with 617 00:29:07,900 --> 00:29:09,610 them, well that's how, that's how you win, 618 00:29:09,750 --> 00:29:10,169 Mm-hmm. 619 00:29:10,300 --> 00:29:11,650 you do business in the long run. 620 00:29:12,250 --> 00:29:15,910 And, um, I, I always remember the first major contract I 621 00:29:15,910 --> 00:29:17,050 ever got was on a handshake. 622 00:29:17,050 --> 00:29:18,550 I never had a contract with anybody. 623 00:29:18,700 --> 00:29:19,810 It was just done on a handshake. 624 00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:20,889 You do that, I'll do that. 625 00:29:20,889 --> 00:29:21,220 Brilliant. 626 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:24,070 We never best contracts I ever had were done on a handshake. 627 00:29:24,340 --> 00:29:27,940 I still do 'em that way 15 years later, it's the only way I do 'em. 628 00:29:29,500 --> 00:29:30,430 It says a lot, doesn't 629 00:29:30,555 --> 00:29:30,975 Mm-hmm. 630 00:29:32,035 --> 00:29:36,175 It says a lot, you know, fill out this, do you agree to these 20,000 631 00:29:36,175 --> 00:29:40,135 pages of terms and conditions, which screw you up every, which way you can. 632 00:29:40,345 --> 00:29:40,764 Mm-hmm. 633 00:29:41,845 --> 00:29:42,145 Okay. 634 00:29:42,145 --> 00:29:45,504 I have to, I suppose, but it's, it's an interesting one, isn't it? 635 00:29:45,504 --> 00:29:52,285 I, I, long for the day when learn the value of a handshake again in a, in a 636 00:29:52,285 --> 00:29:54,385 digital sort of format and how that works. 637 00:29:54,580 --> 00:29:58,600 You know, I'll be honest, I've lost clients because of this, and I'll 638 00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,419 look at them and I'll be like, Hey, I just wanna be really honest with you. 639 00:30:01,929 --> 00:30:04,419 You need to be comfortable with me telling you I love you, or 640 00:30:04,419 --> 00:30:05,800 you won't work well as my client. 641 00:30:06,730 --> 00:30:08,919 And after time they're like, you know, I can't do this anymore. 642 00:30:08,919 --> 00:30:09,459 I'm like, it's okay. 643 00:30:09,459 --> 00:30:10,090 I still love you. 644 00:30:11,155 --> 00:30:14,665 Like, there's this thing of like what you value and, and, and what you care 645 00:30:14,665 --> 00:30:18,145 about to, to, like, that's the thing that I feel like is missing in the world. 646 00:30:18,325 --> 00:30:20,965 It's like I still live in Montana and my favorite thing is like, 647 00:30:20,965 --> 00:30:23,725 I genuinely brought sugar over to my friend's house yesterday 648 00:30:23,754 --> 00:30:24,955 'cause they needed to borrow sugar. 649 00:30:26,004 --> 00:30:26,455 Right. 650 00:30:26,605 --> 00:30:29,304 And then I'll call him in a week and I'm like, Hey, I'm on a firewood. 651 00:30:29,365 --> 00:30:30,475 And he's like, I got you. 652 00:30:30,475 --> 00:30:31,345 I'll bring some over. 653 00:30:31,345 --> 00:30:31,705 Right? 654 00:30:31,705 --> 00:30:33,895 And then he is like, Hey, can you watch the chickens this week? 655 00:30:33,895 --> 00:30:35,875 It's like going back in humanity. 656 00:30:35,875 --> 00:30:38,784 But there's this like comradery and community that 657 00:30:38,784 --> 00:30:40,375 I, I, I think we all forget. 658 00:30:40,375 --> 00:30:42,085 We can bring in into your point. 659 00:30:42,715 --> 00:30:47,995 Your USP is literally the present inside of the box where 660 00:30:47,995 --> 00:30:49,254 your product and service is. 661 00:30:49,254 --> 00:30:50,304 Just the wrapping paper. 662 00:30:51,280 --> 00:30:53,290 Because the only thing that makes you different is you and 663 00:30:53,290 --> 00:30:54,310 I even joke with people too. 664 00:30:54,310 --> 00:30:57,220 I'm like, how many of us have been to an incredible restaurant 665 00:30:57,220 --> 00:31:00,250 food wise, but had subpar service? 666 00:31:00,580 --> 00:31:01,720 And I'm like, do you recommend it? 667 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:02,350 And they're like, no. 668 00:31:02,350 --> 00:31:04,629 I'm like, how many of us have been to a restaurant with incredible 669 00:31:04,629 --> 00:31:08,500 service and subpar food and yet we recommend it to everybody? 670 00:31:08,695 --> 00:31:08,915 Yep. 671 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:10,030 And they're like. 672 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:11,740 Oh. 673 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:14,230 And I'm like, that's the difference to your point, 674 00:31:15,129 --> 00:31:15,460 right? 675 00:31:15,460 --> 00:31:19,570 And I've even had people like, well, I'm like, well I sell, you know, dog shoes. 676 00:31:19,570 --> 00:31:20,800 And I'm like, well great. 677 00:31:20,830 --> 00:31:22,000 How are you gonna deliver them? 678 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,409 How are you gonna speak about them? 679 00:31:23,409 --> 00:31:24,610 How are you gonna do blank? 680 00:31:24,610 --> 00:31:28,780 Like I even have a friend who has a CBD gummy company and she's like, no, no, no. 681 00:31:28,990 --> 00:31:32,200 We make the best CBD gummies for wine moms. 682 00:31:32,230 --> 00:31:34,120 And I was like, oh, that's really, really good. 683 00:31:34,629 --> 00:31:37,149 And she like makes coffee mugs that says like. 684 00:31:37,629 --> 00:31:40,959 Calm your boobs and like take a chill blank. 685 00:31:40,959 --> 00:31:46,570 And she calls her customers her baby grandmas because they're not old enough 686 00:31:46,570 --> 00:31:48,399 to have gra to have grandkids yet. 687 00:31:48,399 --> 00:31:50,830 But she's like, but your baby grandmas 'cause we're working towards 688 00:31:50,830 --> 00:31:52,659 your coffee mug slippers and CBD. 689 00:31:52,659 --> 00:31:54,039 And I'm like, you are so good at this. 690 00:31:54,039 --> 00:31:54,909 It blows my mind. 691 00:31:54,909 --> 00:31:56,019 And they love it. 692 00:31:57,789 --> 00:31:58,719 They love it. 693 00:31:59,019 --> 00:32:01,570 And I'm like, and it's just a CBD gummy. 694 00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,090 And yeah, do they have, you know, good ingredients of course, 695 00:32:04,090 --> 00:32:06,519 but it's the same as 38 other. 696 00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:07,419 Yeah. 697 00:32:07,690 --> 00:32:11,500 Brands in the market, but they create this identity and a relationship with 698 00:32:11,500 --> 00:32:15,310 it to, to your point, I think that that's the, the biggest secret sauce 699 00:32:15,310 --> 00:32:19,030 is that, you know, they even did a study on this, and I'd have to find it 700 00:32:19,030 --> 00:32:23,080 again, but the, the number was misquoted on TikTok when it went viral, but 701 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:28,960 they actually found that authenticity resonates like 480 times deeper in a 702 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:30,879 human being than the frequency of love. 703 00:32:32,034 --> 00:32:32,920 That's interesting. 704 00:32:33,580 --> 00:32:36,939 Authenticity, meaning I'm willing to be myself. 705 00:32:36,939 --> 00:32:38,889 I'm willing to say how I feel. 706 00:32:38,889 --> 00:32:40,540 I'm willing to share my values. 707 00:32:40,540 --> 00:32:44,350 And it also happens to be, the whole point of this conversation is like when 708 00:32:44,350 --> 00:32:48,009 you don't trust somebody, it's 'cause you can tell they're being inauthentic. 709 00:32:48,729 --> 00:32:52,269 When you don't have a deep relationship or you're USP, it's typically because 710 00:32:52,269 --> 00:32:54,009 there's a part of you that that's missing. 711 00:32:54,009 --> 00:32:57,070 Like I have no qualms joking with people, even in business. 712 00:32:57,070 --> 00:32:58,479 Like I'll go start a keynote with like. 713 00:32:59,094 --> 00:32:59,965 Everybody's lying to you. 714 00:32:59,965 --> 00:33:01,314 You're not one funnel away. 715 00:33:01,344 --> 00:33:04,374 And everyone's like, and I was like, I know Russell Love Russell. 716 00:33:04,705 --> 00:33:05,694 I still disagree, 717 00:33:06,310 --> 00:33:06,530 Yep. 718 00:33:07,014 --> 00:33:07,374 right? 719 00:33:07,524 --> 00:33:10,854 Where I'm like, and I'll say this and I'll say this, and I'll say things 720 00:33:10,854 --> 00:33:13,944 like, would you be okay if your grandmother went through your funnel? 721 00:33:13,944 --> 00:33:14,634 And they're like, no. 722 00:33:14,634 --> 00:33:15,715 I'm like, then why can mine? 723 00:33:16,765 --> 00:33:16,855 Yep. 724 00:33:17,560 --> 00:33:19,720 I was like, oh, it's okay to treat mine like crap. 725 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:21,160 But if I did the, and they're like, oh. 726 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:24,010 And I'm like, I'll say those things, but they're real for me because that's 727 00:33:24,010 --> 00:33:25,630 how I see business in eCommerce. 728 00:33:25,630 --> 00:33:30,820 But there's, to your point, so many people that wanna like live in almost 729 00:33:30,820 --> 00:33:33,010 the fringe of like not saying anything. 730 00:33:33,010 --> 00:33:36,310 But then they also turn off their superpower just like, who are you? 731 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,160 And I think authenticity's one of the easiest ways. 732 00:33:39,160 --> 00:33:41,170 But to be authentic, you also have to know what you value. 733 00:33:42,235 --> 00:33:44,544 You do, and you have to know, I think you do, you have to 734 00:33:44,544 --> 00:33:45,985 know who you are in many ways. 735 00:33:45,985 --> 00:33:48,144 And, and a lot of people who say, I'm just being authentic. 736 00:33:48,144 --> 00:33:50,004 I'm like, actually, I think you're just being confused. 737 00:33:51,144 --> 00:33:52,014 do, Do you know what I mean? 738 00:33:52,014 --> 00:33:54,114 In, in terms of what they're saying? 739 00:33:54,114 --> 00:33:57,624 Because I, I, I, this isn't, I don't think that's authentic at all, but, 740 00:33:57,834 --> 00:33:57,985 Mm-hmm. 741 00:33:58,284 --> 00:34:00,054 um, I, I, I, I agree. 742 00:34:00,054 --> 00:34:00,445 I think. 743 00:34:01,764 --> 00:34:03,774 And again, it's not an age thing. 744 00:34:04,135 --> 00:34:08,395 Uh, I appreciate that, George, but as I become older, I become more aware of this. 745 00:34:08,545 --> 00:34:09,145 Mm-hmm. 746 00:34:09,145 --> 00:34:09,654 know what I mean? 747 00:34:09,654 --> 00:34:13,405 And the, and the stuff that I would say to myself when I was a 20, 30-year-old 748 00:34:13,405 --> 00:34:14,935 guy, I kind of look at now and go, what? 749 00:34:16,975 --> 00:34:20,455 You know, fortunately I had some good mentors around me, like you who, 750 00:34:21,565 --> 00:34:25,735 valued, you know, a handshake and you know, the let your yes BS and 751 00:34:25,735 --> 00:34:27,385 your no be no was drilled into me. 752 00:34:28,300 --> 00:34:31,360 Very on in my early twenties that actually what you say is more 753 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:32,560 important than anything else. 754 00:34:33,670 --> 00:34:36,700 and if it costs you, what's the problem? 755 00:34:36,700 --> 00:34:37,510 You do it anyway. 756 00:34:37,510 --> 00:34:37,870 Right? 757 00:34:37,870 --> 00:34:41,590 Because you, you learn from that in so many ways. 758 00:34:42,310 --> 00:34:49,420 Um, it's, I remember, I remember years ago we had, um, we had 759 00:34:49,420 --> 00:34:51,250 a bookkeeping company, right? 760 00:34:51,250 --> 00:34:54,160 This was, sort of, uh. 761 00:34:55,720 --> 00:34:56,650 Early naughties. 762 00:34:56,650 --> 00:35:02,440 So just before, um, things went proper crazy with the web business, 763 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,100 so we had this bookkeeping company and an internet company and we 764 00:35:06,100 --> 00:35:07,810 were doing a job interview, right? 765 00:35:08,170 --> 00:35:11,560 And, um, I said to the guy that we were interviewing and I said, 766 00:35:11,560 --> 00:35:15,190 listen, now you need to understand I have a certain value set. 767 00:35:15,670 --> 00:35:19,780 Uh, and I. I have no issue whether you agree with me or whether you don't. 768 00:35:19,840 --> 00:35:22,810 I'm not expecting you to have the same values as me in many ways, 769 00:35:22,810 --> 00:35:25,630 but do expect you to uphold them. 770 00:35:26,475 --> 00:35:26,695 Mm. 771 00:35:26,860 --> 00:35:32,800 And so I was like, one of the things that we have to is we just don't lie. 772 00:35:33,880 --> 00:35:35,770 own up, fess up. 773 00:35:36,715 --> 00:35:39,385 We, we fix the problem, right? 774 00:35:39,805 --> 00:35:42,955 Uh, when we're not into the blame game, we're just like, this is a problem. 775 00:35:42,985 --> 00:35:44,275 This is how I'm gonna fix it. 776 00:35:44,275 --> 00:35:46,675 'cause people I think, respond really well to that, especially 777 00:35:46,675 --> 00:35:47,815 when you word it in the right way. 778 00:35:48,445 --> 00:35:54,505 So he said to me, um, and I quote George, he said to me, that's no problem at all. 779 00:35:54,625 --> 00:35:58,255 No problem if you get someone on the phone and you don't want to lie to them. 780 00:35:58,345 --> 00:35:59,245 I totally get it. 781 00:35:59,995 --> 00:36:03,025 So if you pass the phone to me, I'll lie to them on your behalf. 782 00:36:05,665 --> 00:36:09,535 I was like, I was like, I think this interview's over, isn't it really? 783 00:36:12,485 --> 00:36:12,705 Wow. 784 00:36:14,245 --> 00:36:14,465 Wow. 785 00:36:16,180 --> 00:36:17,050 Wow. 786 00:36:17,110 --> 00:36:19,870 I don't, I, wow, I didn't expect that. 787 00:36:19,990 --> 00:36:21,280 I didn't expect that at all. 788 00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:22,660 Yeah. 789 00:36:22,660 --> 00:36:28,600 And I, I love, I love the way that, that you, that you describe that too, 790 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:32,770 like I think all too often, I actually did a podcast on this, on my show the 791 00:36:32,770 --> 00:36:38,200 other day, and I said, what we tolerate, we eventually embrace, and what we 792 00:36:38,495 --> 00:36:40,450 evenly embrace becomes who we are. 793 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,710 I think the craziest thing about this is no matter what age you are or 794 00:36:44,710 --> 00:36:48,310 where you are and experience, I think even with situations like that, like 795 00:36:48,340 --> 00:36:51,700 human beings are born with two fears, loud noises, and the fear of falling, 796 00:36:52,030 --> 00:36:53,470 everything else is a trained behavior. 797 00:36:54,190 --> 00:36:57,220 It's not like we wake up and we're like, how do I end up evil today? 798 00:36:57,250 --> 00:37:00,580 How do I agree to sell my soul and lie to somebody on the phone? 799 00:37:00,610 --> 00:37:02,140 How do I agree to take shortcuts? 800 00:37:02,140 --> 00:37:07,720 It, it ends up becoming this byproduct of consistent exposure 801 00:37:08,230 --> 00:37:10,030 to these things that we tolerate. 802 00:37:10,615 --> 00:37:15,085 That eventually we end up embracing because of us not having the 803 00:37:15,085 --> 00:37:17,155 willingness to say, uh, yet, no. 804 00:37:18,070 --> 00:37:21,970 I hold that line and you know, boundaries are only as powerful as your ability 805 00:37:21,970 --> 00:37:24,040 to enforce them but also protect them. 806 00:37:24,100 --> 00:37:26,410 Like they're not like, oh, I plant a seed and it grows. 807 00:37:26,410 --> 00:37:29,200 It's like, oh, I have to water this and till this and run through this. 808 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:32,650 And, you know, I even think about it in the, in the game of business. 809 00:37:32,650 --> 00:37:35,620 Like I joke with people that I'm like, forever the non-viral 810 00:37:35,620 --> 00:37:37,300 king, God made me non-viral. 811 00:37:37,445 --> 00:37:38,195 Not joking. 812 00:37:38,885 --> 00:37:42,155 I've been doing videos on the internet since 2008. 813 00:37:42,215 --> 00:37:45,785 I went live every day for like two and a half years. 814 00:37:45,815 --> 00:37:49,325 Meka, Periscope, Facebook, Instagram, you name it. 815 00:37:50,645 --> 00:37:51,785 I was a food blogger. 816 00:37:51,785 --> 00:37:53,165 I'm talking about entrepreneurship. 817 00:37:53,165 --> 00:37:56,225 I'm talking about marketing, scaling your business, sharing everything. 818 00:37:56,285 --> 00:38:00,155 I've had one video go viral my whole career, one. 819 00:38:01,795 --> 00:38:06,205 I am one for about 65,000. 820 00:38:06,205 --> 00:38:08,665 Like we have six terabytes of video footage. 821 00:38:08,665 --> 00:38:11,215 Like I'm not joking one. 822 00:38:11,305 --> 00:38:16,345 And it was the one video where I was radically authentic and I started 823 00:38:16,345 --> 00:38:19,405 the live video and said, I do not wanna be live today, but I made a 824 00:38:19,405 --> 00:38:22,915 commitment to go live every day and I've no idea what I'm gonna talk about. 825 00:38:22,915 --> 00:38:24,505 And someone's like, well, why are you upset? 826 00:38:24,505 --> 00:38:24,985 And I was like. 827 00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:28,120 I've been struggling with eating disorders my whole life, 828 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:29,230 and I've never told anybody. 829 00:38:29,230 --> 00:38:30,730 Well, I guess I just told you now. 830 00:38:31,180 --> 00:38:33,880 And then it turned into this three and a half hour live stream 831 00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:36,819 and 23 million people saw it. 832 00:38:36,819 --> 00:38:39,790 And I was like, this of all, and he's like, you were authentic. 833 00:38:40,299 --> 00:38:40,990 And I was like, I. 834 00:38:41,875 --> 00:38:46,345 Really, but like, I just, I joke about it because it's, it's this, like, 835 00:38:46,945 --> 00:38:49,945 there's all these expectations and even, 'cause I'm a marketer, right? 836 00:38:49,945 --> 00:38:51,745 So open loops in my brain drive me nuts. 837 00:38:51,745 --> 00:38:54,985 So tying it back to what you said at the beginning is like there's these 838 00:38:54,985 --> 00:38:58,555 silver bullets that people want, there's these shortcuts that people want, and 839 00:38:58,555 --> 00:39:02,725 really all they are are distractions from you putting in the rep that's going 840 00:39:02,725 --> 00:39:04,615 to actually give you what you desire. 841 00:39:05,725 --> 00:39:09,625 They're just delaying the inevitable to where, like I joke with people, 842 00:39:09,625 --> 00:39:11,755 like the fork didn't make me fat. 843 00:39:11,935 --> 00:39:13,255 I picked it up and ate the cake. 844 00:39:13,465 --> 00:39:13,855 Right? 845 00:39:14,455 --> 00:39:19,315 But I also can't expect abs if I don't go to the gym and I can't be upset 846 00:39:19,315 --> 00:39:23,485 if I go for one day and I'm like, Hey Matt, I don't have a six pack again. 847 00:39:23,634 --> 00:39:24,235 I quit. 848 00:39:24,565 --> 00:39:24,895 Right? 849 00:39:24,925 --> 00:39:28,735 There's this understanding of like, it's this active pursuit. 850 00:39:29,950 --> 00:39:33,280 I think that that's the part where people miss is the other biggest 851 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:37,540 mistake that I see besides the two that I've mentioned is the toxic thinking 852 00:39:37,540 --> 00:39:38,920 of thinking there's a finish line. 853 00:39:39,100 --> 00:39:42,520 Like, oh, I've made it, or, oh, I've arrived. 854 00:39:42,670 --> 00:39:46,690 And I was like, well, the moment you embody that, you've already started 855 00:39:46,690 --> 00:39:51,610 deteriorating what you've achieved because it's harder to keep something than it 856 00:39:51,610 --> 00:39:53,440 is to achieve it in the first place. 857 00:39:53,500 --> 00:39:55,990 And then the moment you think you've arrived, you stop. 858 00:39:56,530 --> 00:39:58,990 And it starts eroding backwards over and over. 859 00:39:58,990 --> 00:40:03,009 And so it's like, oh, my clients, like my pipeline's doing great. 860 00:40:03,009 --> 00:40:05,170 Like we're making great organic sales right now. 861 00:40:05,170 --> 00:40:06,640 It's just gonna stay forever. 862 00:40:06,700 --> 00:40:09,970 Or, my ads are working right now and I'm like, wait till you hit ad fatigue 863 00:40:09,970 --> 00:40:13,960 or wait till the new platform pops up, or wait till election season and your 864 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,300 Facebook ads go up eight times in cost. 865 00:40:16,720 --> 00:40:16,990 Right? 866 00:40:16,990 --> 00:40:17,770 Like there's this. 867 00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:18,540 Yep. 868 00:40:19,090 --> 00:40:21,940 You know, like I always joke with people if like in the world of 869 00:40:21,940 --> 00:40:26,230 business, especially e-comm companies, if there's not a check engine light 870 00:40:26,230 --> 00:40:29,140 on your dashboard, I'd be petrified. 871 00:40:30,700 --> 00:40:34,210 Because if I don't see a check engine light on my dashboard, I drive my car 872 00:40:34,210 --> 00:40:35,650 into a wallet and I try to make one. 873 00:40:35,655 --> 00:40:36,065 Because 874 00:40:36,175 --> 00:40:36,505 Yep. 875 00:40:37,090 --> 00:40:41,680 if there is not something being refined or quote unquote broken, then 876 00:40:41,680 --> 00:40:44,860 we're just coasting and it's just a matter of time before the Titanic 877 00:40:44,860 --> 00:40:46,120 ends up on the bottom of the lake. 878 00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:46,870 Yeah. 879 00:40:48,279 --> 00:40:48,610 Yeah. 880 00:40:48,610 --> 00:40:50,259 It's so, it's so true. 881 00:40:50,259 --> 00:40:52,180 Stagnant water always stinks, right? 882 00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:53,529 And it's, it's that. 883 00:40:54,745 --> 00:40:57,805 That's such a warm, way more eloquent way to say that. 884 00:40:57,895 --> 00:40:59,305 Like with way less words. 885 00:40:59,310 --> 00:41:01,470 Yeah, I, and I couldn't think of. 886 00:41:02,815 --> 00:41:05,875 It's the same thing as, and I think if you, you're, you're right. 887 00:41:05,875 --> 00:41:07,705 I mean, and the gym analogy's great, isn't it? 888 00:41:07,710 --> 00:41:11,425 It the day you stop going to the gym is when it, it all starts going wrong. 889 00:41:12,115 --> 00:41:18,295 And I I, I think you, on one hand, we've got this hustle culture, which 890 00:41:18,295 --> 00:41:20,245 is, you've gotta put in the work, right? 891 00:41:20,665 --> 00:41:25,915 And on the other hand, you've got emerging culture, which is 892 00:41:25,915 --> 00:41:26,725 like, well, hang on a minute. 893 00:41:26,725 --> 00:41:28,495 No, I, I still want time. 894 00:41:29,275 --> 00:41:30,745 And I think, um. 895 00:41:31,810 --> 00:41:32,920 Paul said it best, didn't he? 896 00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:34,570 When he said, I know what it is to be rich. 897 00:41:34,630 --> 00:41:36,310 I know what it is to be poor. 898 00:41:38,230 --> 00:41:41,800 In both these situations, I figured out how to be content, right? 899 00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:47,890 And I think there's this, there's a difference between being content and being 900 00:41:50,020 --> 00:41:50,890 Uh, Do you know what I mean? 901 00:41:50,890 --> 00:41:55,330 I, I, there's a difference between being grateful. 902 00:41:56,455 --> 00:41:59,095 And not putting in the work tomorrow. 903 00:41:59,245 --> 00:42:02,035 Like I'm grateful for my health, therefore I don't have to go to the gym. 904 00:42:02,035 --> 00:42:03,654 I'm content with where I'm at in the gym. 905 00:42:03,654 --> 00:42:08,275 Therefore I don't have to go in And I think, I think it's a wrong thing. 906 00:42:08,275 --> 00:42:08,845 I think. 907 00:42:11,365 --> 00:42:13,375 I think we do ours like you said. 908 00:42:13,375 --> 00:42:14,904 I'm just echoing what you said here, George. 909 00:42:14,904 --> 00:42:17,485 I think we do ourselves a disservice in many ways. 910 00:42:17,815 --> 00:42:18,715 We do, we do. 911 00:42:18,745 --> 00:42:18,925 Yeah. 912 00:42:18,925 --> 00:42:23,035 There's this, it's the inversion of the other side, which is the, uh, I 913 00:42:23,035 --> 00:42:26,695 have a friend who, he's actually from London, I believe Jamie Smart, wrote a 914 00:42:26,695 --> 00:42:28,225 book called The Little Book of Clarity. 915 00:42:28,435 --> 00:42:28,765 Right? 916 00:42:29,155 --> 00:42:31,585 And it's really a book dedicated to toxic thinking, right? 917 00:42:31,585 --> 00:42:35,545 How many times have we looked in the mirror and we're like, oh man. 918 00:42:36,040 --> 00:42:40,270 You know, I'm gonna start my diet on Monday, or I'm gonna start it on 919 00:42:40,270 --> 00:42:44,740 New Year's, or I'm gonna, you know, start this writing habit next week. 920 00:42:44,770 --> 00:42:47,020 And I'm like, all that is, it's toxic thinking. 921 00:42:47,080 --> 00:42:51,580 It's delaying the inevitable when the gift arrives and not putting it into practice. 922 00:42:51,580 --> 00:42:54,850 And, and to your point, this is the other side of it, right? 923 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:59,860 Where there is no finish line and, and gratitude is an active state. 924 00:43:00,535 --> 00:43:03,775 When I express gratitude, what I'm saying is I'm willing to keep 925 00:43:03,775 --> 00:43:05,485 doing the work to keep this thing 926 00:43:06,445 --> 00:43:09,805 not, I'm so grateful I have it, I'm willing to lose it again. 927 00:43:10,975 --> 00:43:14,035 And it's this, I had an incredible friend on my podcast and he's like, I think 928 00:43:14,035 --> 00:43:17,695 everybody needs to look at wellness and redefine it as active pursuit. 929 00:43:18,190 --> 00:43:18,550 Yeah, 930 00:43:18,775 --> 00:43:19,255 Because 931 00:43:19,705 --> 00:43:22,975 the moment, and I even say this about integrity with men, when 932 00:43:22,975 --> 00:43:24,145 I used to do men's coaching. 933 00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:29,440 Men have this weird relationship with the word integrity because they think 934 00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:30,610 they're in integrity everywhere. 935 00:43:30,610 --> 00:43:34,120 But truthfully, in this moment, the only person I'm in integrity with is you. 936 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,690 Because if I ask my son where he wants me, he wants me tickling, 937 00:43:37,750 --> 00:43:38,920 tickling him on the couch. 938 00:43:38,920 --> 00:43:42,820 If I ask my partner where she wants me, she wants me in Canada visiting, right? 939 00:43:42,820 --> 00:43:46,450 Like if I ask my best friend who's like over here for dinner, the only place 940 00:43:46,450 --> 00:43:49,990 I'm in, integrity is the place I'm actively pouring my present attention. 941 00:43:50,470 --> 00:43:50,760 Yeah. 942 00:43:51,325 --> 00:43:54,475 Everything else is waiting for me to bring it back into integrity. 943 00:43:54,475 --> 00:43:59,425 And it also frames to your point of like being content where I am, but also being 944 00:43:59,425 --> 00:44:05,005 willing to pursue the ability to keep that or support that or to pour into it. 945 00:44:05,065 --> 00:44:08,185 And, and the way that you described it, and I love how Paul says that, 946 00:44:08,185 --> 00:44:11,845 it, it really applies everywhere it applies to our team, right? 947 00:44:11,845 --> 00:44:14,245 Even when I joke with people about scaling your business, I 948 00:44:14,245 --> 00:44:16,015 say the reason that, you know. 949 00:44:16,345 --> 00:44:19,615 You can't scale your businesses 'cause everybody thinks it's relationship with 950 00:44:19,615 --> 00:44:22,855 your customers, but it actually starts with the relationship with yourself. 951 00:44:23,665 --> 00:44:26,545 And then that trickles down to the relationship with your team, 952 00:44:26,905 --> 00:44:30,235 which then both of them trickle down to the relationship with your customers. 953 00:44:30,235 --> 00:44:30,445 Right? 954 00:44:30,445 --> 00:44:33,235 It's actually an inside out job, not an outside in job. 955 00:44:34,345 --> 00:44:36,270 And that toxic thinking thing applies too. 956 00:44:36,415 --> 00:44:39,355 It's like, oh, well, you know, I'll, I'll start going to the gym again when 957 00:44:39,355 --> 00:44:40,705 I hit a million dollars in revenue. 958 00:44:40,705 --> 00:44:42,775 I'm like, you not going to the gym is why you didn't hit 959 00:44:42,775 --> 00:44:43,735 a million dollars in revenue 960 00:44:43,780 --> 00:44:44,140 Yeah, 961 00:44:45,265 --> 00:44:45,685 because an. 962 00:44:45,700 --> 00:44:46,450 things are linked. 963 00:44:46,450 --> 00:44:46,690 Yep. 964 00:44:46,930 --> 00:44:48,070 Every time. 965 00:44:48,460 --> 00:44:52,270 The first thing is I'm going to sacrifice myself, which is a lens 966 00:44:52,270 --> 00:44:56,710 of scarcity and perspective where we're not seeing it, whereas the 967 00:44:56,710 --> 00:45:02,050 boundaries or the, the things that we tolerate or prioritize are the things 968 00:45:02,050 --> 00:45:03,550 that actually make it happen, right? 969 00:45:03,550 --> 00:45:07,870 Like I'm, I'm unapologetic, like good luck getting ahold of me before 10:00 AM 970 00:45:07,870 --> 00:45:10,060 I don't care if there's 77 text messages. 971 00:45:10,420 --> 00:45:13,930 I still will not see them till 10:00 AM because my do not disturb is 972 00:45:13,930 --> 00:45:17,320 on, and that's when I get home from dropping him off at school and I 973 00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:19,299 finish my hour of sacred time with God. 974 00:45:19,930 --> 00:45:21,940 Other than that, it doesn't even exist in my world. 975 00:45:22,900 --> 00:45:25,810 I'm like, you know, the five people that can, 9 1 1, we can get through. 976 00:45:25,810 --> 00:45:29,500 But there's this level of like, we have to be willing to invest in ourselves. 977 00:45:29,500 --> 00:45:34,060 We also have to be willing to protect ourself in that process. 978 00:45:34,630 --> 00:45:37,810 And I found that, I'd say the biggest mistakes I made in my career of 979 00:45:37,810 --> 00:45:41,380 like why I built so many companies and, and built so much success and 980 00:45:41,380 --> 00:45:45,910 went from $500,000 months down to zero and back up and like six times. 981 00:45:45,910 --> 00:45:46,900 'cause you know, I don't learn. 982 00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:50,680 I finally learned. 983 00:45:51,205 --> 00:45:51,425 Yep. 984 00:45:52,090 --> 00:45:59,410 I finally learned is because I had avoided the relationship with myself, everything 985 00:45:59,410 --> 00:46:01,600 was just a compensatory behavior. 986 00:46:01,660 --> 00:46:02,890 I'm like, oh, it's working. 987 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:05,290 Okay, well let me go break it now so I have something else 988 00:46:05,290 --> 00:46:07,360 to prove, or it's broken. 989 00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:08,980 Let me make it really, really good again. 990 00:46:09,340 --> 00:46:12,220 And you know, it was like never, I could never sit down. 991 00:46:12,220 --> 00:46:13,420 I could never sit still. 992 00:46:13,420 --> 00:46:16,330 And I had a, a monk on my podcast who's a dear friend. 993 00:46:16,330 --> 00:46:16,720 He was in. 994 00:46:17,050 --> 00:46:19,210 Monastery for seven years in silence. 995 00:46:19,690 --> 00:46:23,020 And he described the secret to success better to me than anybody. 996 00:46:23,770 --> 00:46:27,010 And he said, if you can't take a poop without your phone, you've 997 00:46:27,010 --> 00:46:28,235 never lived a day in your life. 998 00:46:34,405 --> 00:46:37,045 Oh, what did we do when we went to the toilet before the 999 00:46:37,045 --> 00:46:38,485 mobile phone existed, right? 1000 00:46:39,250 --> 00:46:43,000 And then I look at it and how entrepreneurship is a celebrated 1001 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,630 addiction as a distraction from being in a relationship with myself. 1002 00:46:48,025 --> 00:46:50,065 I don't have to sit there in the silence. 1003 00:46:50,245 --> 00:46:52,015 I don't have to create space for God. 1004 00:46:52,465 --> 00:46:56,335 I don't have to handle the thoughts and the feelings that are going in because I 1005 00:46:56,335 --> 00:47:01,315 will forever have a bucket that will allow me to numb and distract, and the world is 1006 00:47:01,315 --> 00:47:03,325 going to celebrate me the more I do it. 1007 00:47:03,890 --> 00:47:04,090 Yeah. 1008 00:47:04,945 --> 00:47:06,925 That was like my hard truth, 1009 00:47:07,915 --> 00:47:10,795 and that took me getting, I did a three year. 1010 00:47:10,825 --> 00:47:13,015 I'm not allowed to consume content cleanse. 1011 00:47:13,510 --> 00:47:13,540 Mm. 1012 00:47:14,305 --> 00:47:17,395 After a come to God moment, I literally deleted social media. 1013 00:47:17,395 --> 00:47:19,855 When I gave the company away, I deleted a million followers. 1014 00:47:19,915 --> 00:47:21,475 I disappeared off the internet. 1015 00:47:21,475 --> 00:47:22,615 I didn't read books. 1016 00:47:22,705 --> 00:47:23,665 I didn't watch booms. 1017 00:47:23,905 --> 00:47:27,775 I didn't listen to music with any lyrics, and it was like the 1018 00:47:27,775 --> 00:47:29,665 biggest drug detox in my life, 1019 00:47:30,325 --> 00:47:34,465 and it took about nine months for me to get so sick and tired of feeling that way 1020 00:47:34,465 --> 00:47:37,945 that I realize when you can't consume, there's only one thing left you can do, 1021 00:47:38,095 --> 00:47:41,455 which is create, and then all of a sudden. 1022 00:47:41,890 --> 00:47:45,010 There was this place to put my energy and attention, and then 1023 00:47:45,130 --> 00:47:47,170 everything started working in my life. 1024 00:47:47,170 --> 00:47:49,300 But now it's the thing that I crave the most, like 1025 00:47:50,140 --> 00:47:52,750 people know me as, like this guy who speaks and coaches, I'm the 1026 00:47:52,750 --> 00:47:54,010 biggest introvert in the world. 1027 00:47:54,190 --> 00:47:57,010 You see me in an event, my natural state is sitting over in 1028 00:47:57,010 --> 00:47:58,240 the corner staring at the wall. 1029 00:47:58,240 --> 00:47:59,950 You're gonna think I belong in a padded room. 1030 00:48:00,940 --> 00:48:03,220 I am just so peaceful and content. 1031 00:48:04,090 --> 00:48:04,870 I'm like, are you okay? 1032 00:48:04,870 --> 00:48:07,360 I'm like, yeah, like I love myself. 1033 00:48:07,780 --> 00:48:09,610 Like I just love sitting here. 1034 00:48:09,610 --> 00:48:12,250 I. By myself, like in silence. 1035 00:48:12,250 --> 00:48:14,500 And even my partner Joe, she's like, you wake up in the morning 1036 00:48:14,500 --> 00:48:15,460 and I thought you were dead. 1037 00:48:15,460 --> 00:48:17,860 Turns out you're staring at the ceiling in a stillness practice. 1038 00:48:17,890 --> 00:48:19,060 I'm like, oh, it's so good. 1039 00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:20,650 Like, I don't wanna be asleep. 1040 00:48:20,650 --> 00:48:23,350 I wanna be alive, but I also don't have anywhere to be. 1041 00:48:23,980 --> 00:48:25,210 I'm like, totally okay. 1042 00:48:25,210 --> 00:48:26,770 And content sitting in my body. 1043 00:48:26,770 --> 00:48:30,279 And I think that it's a muscle that the more we flex, the better our perspective 1044 00:48:31,029 --> 00:48:32,830 and the better our ability To your point. 1045 00:48:33,205 --> 00:48:37,165 To pursue those things that really, really matter to us, like to be content, but 1046 00:48:37,165 --> 00:48:42,175 also constantly be sharpening and putting that pressure on ourselves to become that 1047 00:48:42,175 --> 00:48:45,745 version that can have the business or have the body, or even have the family 1048 00:48:45,745 --> 00:48:47,425 or the relationships that we desire. 1049 00:48:48,430 --> 00:48:49,210 So powerful. 1050 00:48:50,140 --> 00:48:55,570 listen, I'm aware of time, but I, it's, um, just to come back to 1051 00:48:55,570 --> 00:48:57,310 that, that final point, I think 1052 00:49:00,130 --> 00:49:02,140 it is a divine thing to create. 1053 00:49:02,290 --> 00:49:07,420 I think it's one of those things that is actually, I. Innate inners as a sort of 1054 00:49:07,420 --> 00:49:09,760 part of our divine DNA is to be a creator. 1055 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:10,210 Right? 1056 00:49:10,270 --> 00:49:16,780 And, and I think you cannot create, if you do not have the space, and if life is 1057 00:49:16,780 --> 00:49:22,780 just 14 hours working, I don't understand where you are creating anything. 1058 00:49:23,650 --> 00:49:28,120 And just the ability to not pick up the phone, to sit and stare at the 1059 00:49:28,120 --> 00:49:31,750 ceiling and just be bored and think. 1060 00:49:32,890 --> 00:49:37,660 I think is probably the times where I've had the best ideas about my e-com 1061 00:49:37,660 --> 00:49:41,410 businesses over the years is if I, if I'm honest, it's not when I'm knee deep, 1062 00:49:41,410 --> 00:49:48,430 14 hours into writing Instagram posts or whatever it is, it's more no, if I'm 1063 00:49:48,430 --> 00:49:50,320 on my bike, Do you know what I mean? 1064 00:49:50,320 --> 00:49:54,010 Or, or just being bored, staring out the window on a train and all 1065 00:49:54,010 --> 00:49:55,450 of a sudden, boom, there it is. 1066 00:49:55,600 --> 00:49:57,670 And uh, super powerful, man. 1067 00:49:57,670 --> 00:49:58,810 Listen, how do people reach you? 1068 00:49:58,810 --> 00:50:00,400 How do they connect with you if they want to do that? 1069 00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:01,060 What's the best way? 1070 00:50:01,405 --> 00:50:04,705 Yeah, so truthfully, the best way is you either think I belong 1071 00:50:04,705 --> 00:50:06,055 in a padded room, or you don't. 1072 00:50:06,055 --> 00:50:07,885 Either way, you're right, and I love you. 1073 00:50:08,635 --> 00:50:12,445 So if you're in the padded room bucket, you can just check out the 1074 00:50:12,445 --> 00:50:16,015 pinkest website in the world, which is mindofgeorge.com, my podcast. 1075 00:50:16,150 --> 00:50:17,080 sales pitch. 1076 00:50:17,380 --> 00:50:19,750 It's how do you get people to tell, get to your website, determin. 1077 00:50:19,750 --> 00:50:20,890 It's the Pinkest website in the 1078 00:50:21,010 --> 00:50:22,870 It's, it's so good and it's my favorite color. 1079 00:50:22,870 --> 00:50:24,640 Like I literally, it's around me everywhere. 1080 00:50:24,970 --> 00:50:27,580 And also if like, I can answer any questions, strategy, 1081 00:50:27,580 --> 00:50:30,520 questions, t like anything, like I love connecting with people. 1082 00:50:30,520 --> 00:50:34,670 My Instagram is like the best place and my Instagram is, itsgeorgebryant, 1083 00:50:34,690 --> 00:50:38,260 the it's is included, it's ITS and then georgebryant, which I know they'll 1084 00:50:38,260 --> 00:50:39,520 have the link in the show notes. 1085 00:50:39,970 --> 00:50:42,910 And to your final point, Matt, the way that I would, I would 1086 00:50:42,910 --> 00:50:44,830 resonate this for everybody is that. 1087 00:50:45,730 --> 00:50:48,730 The biggest challenge most of us have is we're never quiet 1088 00:50:48,730 --> 00:50:49,990 enough to hear God's whispers. 1089 00:50:51,549 --> 00:50:55,060 And when you're intentional about creating the space and for, for 1090 00:50:55,060 --> 00:50:56,890 everybody listening, your God is fine. 1091 00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:58,420 I love my Jesus, right? 1092 00:50:58,509 --> 00:51:01,840 I also love you for loving whoever you love, but your God is fine. 1093 00:51:01,840 --> 00:51:05,740 But that space to your point, is being intentional to create the 1094 00:51:05,740 --> 00:51:08,140 space and then the ideas can flow in. 1095 00:51:09,070 --> 00:51:11,740 And that doesn't happen when you're sacrificing, when you're 1096 00:51:11,740 --> 00:51:13,060 struggling or when you're grinding. 1097 00:51:13,060 --> 00:51:15,670 It only happens when you slow down and allow yourself the 1098 00:51:15,670 --> 00:51:17,050 space for those things to land. 1099 00:51:17,725 --> 00:51:18,055 Yeah. 1100 00:51:18,445 --> 00:51:19,045 Very good. 1101 00:51:19,555 --> 00:51:20,005 George. 1102 00:51:20,005 --> 00:51:20,785 Thank you brother. 1103 00:51:21,550 --> 00:51:22,540 It was an honor, my friend. 1104 00:51:22,645 --> 00:51:23,065 the show. 1105 00:51:23,065 --> 00:51:24,325 We'll definitely have to do this again. 1106 00:51:24,325 --> 00:51:26,125 I feel like it was warming up, if I'm honest with you. 1107 00:51:26,230 --> 00:51:28,930 Oh, I'm ready to do a whole tactic and strategy episode. 1108 00:51:28,930 --> 00:51:29,290 Let's go. 1109 00:51:29,290 --> 00:51:29,320 I. 1110 00:51:29,770 --> 00:51:30,460 Let's do it. 1111 00:51:30,460 --> 00:51:31,870 We'll, we will get that booked in. 1112 00:51:31,870 --> 00:51:33,850 But um, thank you so much for joining us. 1113 00:51:34,210 --> 00:51:35,740 Uh, and thank you listeners. 1114 00:51:35,740 --> 00:51:39,220 If you've been joining us, uh, this week, uh, it's been great to have you along. 1115 00:51:39,220 --> 00:51:41,050 If you're new to the show, warm, welcome to you. 1116 00:51:41,230 --> 00:51:44,140 Make sure you like and subscribe and do all of that good stuff. 1117 00:51:44,140 --> 00:51:46,270 But yeah, fundamentally, that's it from me. 1118 00:51:46,390 --> 00:51:47,290 That's it from George. 1119 00:51:47,290 --> 00:51:48,610 Thank you so much for joining us. 1120 00:51:49,060 --> 00:51:50,500 Have a great week wherever you are in the world. 1121 00:51:50,590 --> 00:51:51,280 I'll see you next time. 1122 00:51:51,730 --> 00:51:52,120 Bye for now.