In this episode, Stacy Bratcher takes her podcast,

the legal department, and gets into the hot seat.

Alright. So today, we're checking out the legal department by Stacy

Bracher. You can find her at

legaldepartmentpod.com.

And her description from our good friends in Apple Podcast, are you

comfortable? You should get comfortable. Alright. Here we go.

Practical, efficient, and fun, the legal

department podcast delivers the bottom line of what busy

in house attorneys need to know to level up their career.

Whether you're the general counsel or just starting a career in

corporate law department in a corporate law department, the

legal department podcast is the place to get real world advice

from leading legal executives, executive coaches, and

other thought leaders on how to grow your careers and deliver more value to

your clients. Now at that point,

okay, I think I know what the show is about. But wait, there's more.

Through conversations with prominent general counsel, chief

legal officers, and select the law firm thought leaders, you'll get the

bottom line of what you need to know about front page

legal issues like digital privacy, cybersecurity, and

AI. Guests will share their strategies for managing the

legal team, budgets, and navigating tricky company

politics. Episodes will also tackle in house fundamentals

like the attorney client privilege, litigation, m and

a, governance, and working with board of directors and the

c suite. Like, okay. I now have a much clearer oh,

but wait. There's more. The podcast will also also feature guests

from the c suite. I think you just said that when you said with

board of directors in the c suite. But, nonetheless, in case you missed it,

the podcast will also feature guests from the c suite,

didn't we just say sweet? Okay. Executive coaches and

other thought leaders who will offer practice insights for

attorneys seeking to fuel their own professional development and build

those elusive soft skills. Each episode of the

legal department will provide practical tips and takeaways that you can

use to take your in house career to the next

level. And where I'm kind of going with this now

because, you know, wait, there's more. Some of these just seem like they're just

it's like you threw it in chat gbt and said, rewrite this paragraph.

Alright? So, we've we've talked about,

you know, taking it to your the next level. The next

paragraph, the legal department podcast provides practical, concise,

and actionable insights for a busy in house attorneys.

Whether you are a seasoned general counsel or a new corporate law

professional, each episode of the law department offers the essential tools,

information, and resources to enhance your professional skills,

elevate your career, and deliver value to those who serve. I'm

here to tell you, I feel like I've already read that paragraph.

But somebody read, you get 4,000 characters for your podcast,

and they're gonna use all 4,000. Next paragraph,

each episode features in-depth conversations with prominent general

counsel and chief legal officers and select law firm

leaders who share war stories from their own careers. Learn how to

tackle any situation with finesse and confidence No matter how

delicate or politically challenging, accelerate your

journey towards a fulfilling legal career with these

podcast conversations.

Again, did that say anything different than the

previous? Because wait. There's another one. Guests will

share key insights. I think we've definitely got it down that we're gonna

get key insights and strategies for effective managing

legal teams, budget oversight. See, these are just keywords. We're

just keyword stuffing. Navigating company politics and mastering

in house fundamentals like privilege, litigation, m and a. We've already

said m and a. That was like 2 paragraphs ago. Governance and

board interactions. Becoming an in house leader requires

more than legal knowledge and experience. It requires business

acumen, executive intelligence, and being a team player with

your company and with your partners. The legal department podcast

will help you level up your career.

Again, key strategies okay. I'm

just alright. Literally, there are 2 more

paragraphs. Here, host Stacy Bratcher,

a general counsel and chief legal officer with 20 years of in

house experience, finally, some new information, has fun and

engaging con conversations with legal careers

I'm sorry, about legal careers within in house legal

departments. The legal department podcast delivers, here we go

again, informative, relatable, and practical advice from thought

leaders as she explores topics with exceptional

attorneys. And, again, in case you missed it the first two times,

c suite executives and other key business partners, I think that's

2 for business partners, you'll gain a deeper understanding of front page

legal issues, become more familiar with the impact of today's

technology on your practice, and learn to cultivate a stronger

relationship to position yourself as an approachable and

effective legal partner. Okay. So I would

keep the part about Stacy 20 years, but some of

these we got one more. You ready? Let's let's figure out what new

information we're gonna learn that required them to include this

paragraph. No matter where you are in your career, the legal

department is here to help you tackle whatever comes your way. Join

Stacy in these episodes filled with inspiring stories, already said

that, valuable advice, yep, definitely said that, and tips to

evaluate your link your legal practice. Become an invaluable

asset to your organization or law firm and establish yourself

as a dependable, professional. They

can can they can't afford to lose. Level up your legal

career with the legal department podcast. So I

get that you're hoping that putting all these words are gonna get you

found. Maybe they will. I'm just I would have moved paragraph,

5 about Stacy into

maybe the first paragraph. But the the other, like, 1,

2, however many paragraphs we have here, they're saying the same

thing. So I would get Stacy's bio in there

sooner. So with that said,

let's get to it. Her she's got some decent if we look at

her titles, things like level

up and hold on, leading the legal department of a start up,

level up your negotiation skills, what's next to career

transitions in the legal department, c suite series, how to move

from the legal department into something that I can't see because your

title's too long. So let's get to my

conversation with Stacy because as much as I just kind of,

was confused by her intro, the

beginning of her show was great. Here's myself

with Stacy listening to the beginning of her show.

Welcome to the legal department, a podcast for lawyers who wanna

learn, connect, and grow their careers. I'm Stacey

Bratcher. I'm a general counsel, and I'm excited to share these

conversations to help you level up in house.

On today's episode of the legal department, I'm thrilled to

introduce Laura Frederick, who is the founder and

CEO of How TO Contract, which is an organization that helps

support lawyers and others in their contracting journey. Hi, Laura. How are

you? I'm awesome. How are you doing? I'm doing great. I'm

doing great. You know, you got on my radar screen because

you are a really prolific poster. We're gonna get into

that on LinkedIn a little bit later. But you have developed this

really strong niche in the contracting space. As you know,

from a as a former in house attorney, it's a core function of the

in house practice. So I wanna talk about that. But it's not career

journey show, but I do wanna give a little bit of background because you've been

there, done that in the in house world. So can you just talk a little

bit about your in house experience? So here's what's all there's

so much that's, like, great about that. Number 1, I love the fact that

you go, this isn't a journey show because we've all, like, today I'm over

it. We're gonna hear somebody's story. You're gonna hear about somebody you don't know

and how they, you know so that, I like that you're

you talked specifically of what we're gonna get to. You were kinda

leaving little hints along the way to tease people. And

then you didn't say, tell me a little bit about yourself. You said, tell me

about your specific part of your life. And I was like, perfect.

The only thing for me that I go, and sometimes we don't have a

lot of control, is you sound phenomenal.

She's compared to you, she's a little harsh in the words of Bill Murray.

Like, was she using, like, a headset? Do you remember or anything like that? She

had a headset. I do. I send out guest FAQs with all the

Yeah. Wear headphones, don't use your earbuds, you

know, all the all the things. But she did have headset, and

she did have a real mic. Okay. Because it was it's just

super clear. Like, you're super warm and just like,

and then she comes on and it's like and that was like the first impression.

I was like, ew. Now on the other hand, what was it? 4 kids

in 5 years? No twins? I was like, holy cow. So

and I just thought it was cool that you said, hey. You you know, you

kinda threw out that subtle hint. Don't tell me your life story, and

you gotta write into a story as opposed to tell me a little bit about

yourself. So the only other thing was the the

benefit of listening was you're gonna level up. Mhmm. And I

was like, does that make sense in lawyer speak? Because to me, it's like

taking your, like, taking whatever to the next level is always Mhmm.

Going deeper and deeper. So, I was like, okay. That's

somewhat vague, but not really. I mean, it's a quick way of saying It's a

professional development show for lawyers. So the goal is that you're gonna

learn something. And as opposed to again, I we're over a

career journey. I don't really care about all the jobs you had and why you

went to law school. Right. I try to have it focused on a

particular topic, and I really try to have,

like, concrete takeaways that people can say, like, oh, I learned

this. Well, that's it. That's the thing I thought you did really well.

And in fact, in my next little clip here, you you anytime

somebody drops something, you're like, hold on. Let's talk about

that. And a lot of times, you're accepting terrible language because you don't have

a choice, and you gotta get the deal done. And the risk of not doing

the deal is worse than the risk of accepting this language. So it's

kinda nice because when something blows up later, you're like, Yeah. We do what we

do. Best. Exactly. So that's So I like that just before we get to

it. Is your your audience, if they're in

your shoes, are going, oh, been there, done that, horrible language.

Let's pause on this as a teaching point because, you know, I think,

especially for lawyers who are new to an in house role, I I

love that because you're kind of, like, identifying, hey, this is who this is for,

and there's somebody in their car going, that's me. I had this

shared this example recently, but I remember one of my first projects when

I was at USC. Someone gave me a contract for one of the schools,

and it was really a deep and I'm just doing my law firm thing, marking

it all up. And when I send it back to the client, like, oh,

hey, their mouth dropped. What am I supposed to do with this? And so

I'm hoping we can talk about what are some tips and coaching for

people moving in house about how to risk stratify or

why you pick your battles, and why you do suck it up with bad language

sometimes. And so I just it's a very specific question. It's

not because first you said, give us some tips. And then you're like, wait, hold

on. Let's let's reel it in even more. So you you

just asked a lot of really good questions. I mean, I Thank you. I could

keep playing clips and clips, but everything was like, oh, there was one. I gotta

play this one because it's it's a way without

really you're vulnerable without, like, being super

vulnerable. When we were talking before, I shared, I am not

always the most enthusiastic passion for

it. And I guess

I want a little bit of coaching on how can passion for it. And I

guess I want a little bit of coaching on how can I get myself

pumped up? Like, this is a part key part of the business, but it's not

as fun as sexy as maybe some of the other things we work on. And

so to me, if you're feeling that, you know, there's somebody else

that's like, oh, if I have to do another hotel contract Yeah. Right. Right.

I'm gonna, you know, pull my eyes out. I thought this was a

great idea where you just bring in, like, let's quit talking about

theory, and you made it, like, let's talk real world. There's more I wanna

go into there. But one question that's been on my mind, and you kinda

mentioned earlier that, you know, you hired a legal operations person. Because

I think one of the reasons I feel dispassionate about contracts

is because there's such a volume. Yeah. And it can be

overwhelming. Like, when you're talking about, like, being side to side with the business

and strategizing and growing and

growing. And so as much growing and growing. And so as

much as I wanna spend time with Julie, plan to take over the world, I

still have, like, 15 other people that want something. So Yeah.

You have suggestions for, like, managing that

immense need, the inbounds, I call it. So here again,

you're just bringing in the real life stuff that

somebody listening on a plane on their way to their next meeting or

whatever is like, oh, I've been right there. I know exactly. I I love how

you called it. You're dispassionate about it. I was like, oh, that's a good

word of saying it bores me to death. I don't wanna do anymore. And

then as a teacher, one of the things you always wanna answer is

is why. Because people like, if you tell a kid, 1 +1 equals

2, and they're like, okay. You say that to an adult, and they're like, wait.

Can you explain that a little more? And I thought this was a great just

great insight. Because I post it every day. Let's pause for a second. You

had a post recently, and I know you've been continuing to post. But I

think it was a couple months ago, you said I posted every day for

it was like three and a half years and it was like 1300 some

odd LinkedIn posts. Did you enjoy doing that, or

did you feel, like, compulsive to do it? Or, like, I'm trying to

explore my business? Or, like Yeah. That's a lot.

Yeah. So because when I heard that, I was like, so you are. You're basically

asking, why are you doing this? Yeah. Crazy

lady. The other thing I thought was you you got her answer. And then

before you got off that topic, you made sure to ring out every

ounce of of value. Actually, if anyone's listening, I'm looking for

someone to help me with my LinkedIn. And maybe, Laura, you can coach me

through it. But I was curious, like, what did you learn when you were

doing all these posts? So you learned, hey, I can repurpose my content.

It's a great pipeline for both relationships, friends,

and for business. But what else did you learn about

yourself or the business of LinkedIn? And there's a couple things you did

here throughout the interview that I was like, there you go. You might as well

do that. And that is if you have an expert on your show, like, can

I just get some free consulting? Yeah. You know? And Yeah.

I've done that. Why not? Because, again, if you're thinking it, so is

your audience. There was only and I mean, I have to really pull out

the tweezers to nitpick. And but it's so honest

and natural that I'm like, you know, not a big deal. You just said this.

Yeah. Well, that's great. And like I said, there's webinars, so follow you on

LinkedIn. I think don't you also have, like, membership or something?

Yeah. We have a membership with over 80 hours worth of training in

there. So somebody could say, ah, you sounded slightly unprepared. And I'm

like, she you know? It's it's crazy how much these

people don't aren't ready to sell themselves. And I tell them at the

outset, like, hey. What do you and the other thing,

which I'm sure you experience, is that you have them on the show, and then

they don't promote it. Yeah. Yeah. It's weird. It's either

one extreme or the other. They're they're either the well, as I mentioned

in my book, you know, they start every answer like that. Or you're

like, hey. I'm gonna serve up the softball for you so you can explain

to people what you do. And yeah. So Yeah.

And then the last thing we have is your ending.

Hey. Thanks for joining me today in the legal department. If you like the

show, would you please follow, like, and subscribe? That

helps other listeners to find the show. Okay. Is that are you doing this on

YouTube as well? No.

Uh-uh. Subscribing to the show subscribing to the show does,

I think. Let me finish. And if you're really inspired, you can rate and

review on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere you get podcasts.

For more information about the show, check out our website, legaldepartmentpod.com.

Thanks. Okay. So what I'm

I'm tying things together here that aren't actually there. As long as you know

ratings and reviews do not help you get found. Subscribing

does, but not ratings and review. The one thing that I would

throw in there, although this is sounds this sounds like it's already done and

prerecorded, always tell people, hey, do you know somebody else

who just hates hotel contracts? Mhmm.

Why don't you share this with them? Because we you know, and also,

always say if you do an interview because the the goal of this show is

to position yourself as a as a thought leader. And

we got some really great questions, but not a lot of

thought. So I always say, are are you young enough to remember or I guess,

old enough at this point to remember Jerry Springer?

Mhmm. Yeah. I always say do the Jerry Springer. Because, you know, Jerry have people

throwing chairs and Yeah. You know, that whole 9 yards. And at the end, he'd

sit down with a camera and go, what did we learn today? And so

this is where you get to inject your thoughts

Mhmm. And say, you know, what really jumped out today is

when she said this, I Mhmm. You know, I we've all been

there. And then you can share a story about how you do

something or insights or how you're gonna use that something. Because

it's it's one of those things where you you just delivered

value. But sometimes you wanna remind people that you just got a

lot of really free, you know, context. Just free stuff. Yeah. Just free

stuff. And I'm responsible for bringing you

this awesome guest kind of thing. It's a it's a really kind of passive

aggressive way to just remind people that, like, it's my show. Right?

It's like, and it's one of the things that it

it does. It helps reinforce in people's brain. They're like, oh, yeah. I did just

learn that. It was 12 minutes ago, but that's a good point. I was already

focusing on the last thing. So I would do a Jerry Springer in there and

then just ask people to share it with their friends because

I would assume lawyers hang out together because nobody else can identify what

it's like to be a lawyer except, you know, another lawyer. You know, you're

trying to get into other lawyers talking to other lawyers about

your show. And then you've got easy to remember

website, which is great. The only thing I saw on your there are 2 things

on your your website. The website's terrible. It's terrible. I hate

it. Okay. I hate it. I'm embarrassed of it. It was a

I had to do it. Tom's people built it for me, and then I

haven't had success getting it redone.

Well, you you might look into and and people always go, you should work for

these people. I am an affiliate. There's a company called,

PodPage that I use. And you simply put in your RSS feed because

there's there's one thing that, we

need to do here. So let me share my screen here real quick.

Hey. This is future Dave. I now work for PodPage,

and we'll hear my tips for her website right after this.

So Stacy had made one of the most common

website mistakes and that is you have these players. Some people call

them set it and forget it. I call it a show player. It's a

player with multiple episodes. And the bad news

about these players, yes, they're convenient, but they deliver

0 as in absolutely zero SEO

to your website. They're really not even on your website. It's like somebody

punched a hole in your website and stuck a player in it, and that

information is actually on your media host. So there was no SEO.

Do you know about the blogs, though? Tom's company

And to fill in the blank here, Tom's company is Podetize.

Turns each episode into a blog. Okay. But

where is that? We should not spend a lot of time on the website because

I know it's I know it's horrendous, but they are posted on

they are here. And that was like the main not the

main reason I went with them, but that was something that they really

promoted was because they turn the podcast into

blog that that op I've got pretty good Yeah.

Okay. SEO. Because that's what you wanna do. You wanna treat every

episode like a blog post just with a single

episode player, not, you know, here's all Mhmm. Kind of thing. And then

the other one that just looks odd is you have a supporters page, and there's

there's nothing here. Well, that would be because, they didn't put put I

do have 2 supporters, working on the 3rd,

but the web team did not execute

that. And then the other thing I would do just

because the goal is to to get listeners is when

you go to the podcast page, you have,

and you kinda have to you'll see here rate and review, but we're

kinda looking for follow-up as well. And so when you well, a,

that that link doesn't work. Let me ask this. If I migrate

to pod page, can this just go over on its own, or do

I have to do anything out? I mean It's you basically take your

RSS feed. So that would be from and Poditize, right,

is the name of the company. Yeah. You take their RSS feed, throw it

into PodPage. You pick a layout

and you Do I get to keep the same URL? Yep. And

then you basically just redirect it. I mean, here's, this is

a pod page site. So I've got my little Patreon thing.

You can customize it if you don't just want the,

here's one I did for my consulting. Because for me, you have to ask

yourself, am I a business that has a podcast or a podcast that has a

business? I'm I'm neither. I'm just a so I'm I'm I

have a job. Right? This is just like a a fun Yeah.

And if you don't mind, we can we don't I don't need to we the

the website is terrible, and I know it. Okay. Okay.

But I I think about you say all the time that you can get paid

in fun. Right? Like, I'm I'm an executive. I don't need money.

Like, I I I'm not doing this to make money. I'm doing this to to

promote my thought leadership, and I'm doing it as a service

to others in my field and because it's really fun. So

Perfect. I hope that that comes through. It's

in shape. It is. I think it is because your again, your questions

are, a, they sound very natural, but, also, I'm

guessing you might have planned these out. I don't know. But it just seemed like

I don't plan the I mean, yes. We I do a prep call, and we

kind of develop an outline of where we're gonna go. But as

a listener to shows, like, I I'm always frustrated

where it feels like there's something that's happening, and then the the the

person takes it off to another direction. Like, I wanna I

wanna fully develop whatever the thought was. Right. And that's where you

do that. You're like, hold on. I wanna stop here and ask about this. And

that's why I love that because it's so many times someone would be like,

you know, and that's when I accidentally shot that guy. And and then they're

like, great. What was your about when you sold your car. Yeah. And you're like,

wait. You're not gonna ask about that last thing they just said. So your

questions were, like I say, even if they were just off the top of your

head, you did a good job of just they just weren't the typical

kind of like, hey. You just posted 3,000 posts on, you know,

LinkedIn. Like, why, basically?

And what did you learn? Like, now that you've done I'm glad you did that.

What did you learn from it? So I just thought they were great questions.

So but, yeah, if you all you do is you put your feed in a

pod page. You you pick kind of a template and all the stuff you can

change later. You pick some colors. And what it does is every time

you put out an episode, it just automatically puts it out

as, like, this little episode on your page. And then they

do have an AI tool where you can go in and say, hey. Based on

this particular episode, now write a blog post. So then you've

got kind of your show notes with here's the links to everybody's stuff, and and

then you can have it write a blog post if you want. So and it's

I think it's $20 a month. It's nothing too crazy. And, again,

future Dave here. I did not work for PodPage when I said

this. Hence, it's one of the reasons why I work for PodPage. I love that

company. So my main issues are

I mean, I get I have steady listenership. Mhmm. I would say very

steady. And when people reach out to me, they, like, love the show.

I get a lot of positive feedback. I'm not seeing a ton of

growth. And I wonder if I'm not

promoting it enough or the bet my best

episode, my most popular is one called, 7 things I did to

become a general counsel. I'm wondering, am I not titling them

right? Or Actually, the thing I liked about your titles because I

took a look at those, and I was just you know, so many people just

do episode 6. And I'm like, yeah. That is not gonna get you any kind

of link love. But you had really, like, how to let me I'm

going back here in Apple. And you had really good

titles that were very clear. And I think if somebody

was looking for information on that topic, I think you would

would show up. So like c suite series. So you're already

right at the front. You know, how to partner with chief human resources, own

your own professional development with, Sapna and

Red Bull. That's awesome. Yeah. She's a general counsel of Red Bull. Yeah. Yeah. Level

up contracting in the legal department, level up ethics, leading

teams in legal department. So everything I saw there, I wasn't going, oh, I

wonder what that episode's about. You know, they were they were very clear on what

they were, and you write a really good

paragraph to kinda let people know. Because, really, if somebody clicks on

that before they click play, they're probably gonna look at that little paragraph,

and they're asking the question, do I need to listen to this? Is this

gonna waste my time? The thing I would say is,

a, on your website, have a page made

like slash follow. You know? So and

then on there, have Apple and Spotify and, you know,

Amazon. Basically, if you get Apple and Spotify, you've got about 80%

of list So have a page on the a tab on the

website for following? Yeah. Like like a like a you can

click to follow? Yeah. And the beauty of again, I

should get well, I do earn commissions of if you use my affiliate link. But

if you go to, like here, if I go to, podcastconsultant.com/follow,

any kind of player that I put the link to, it just automatically

makes a page. It also makes a page for voicemail if you

wanna have questions come in. It's it's pretty handy. But the

reason for that is that way because the last thing you want to say is

find me wherever you find podcasts, because Yeah. Searching those apps

is often really horrible, Where now you can just say, oh,

just go to, you know, legalpod.com/follow.

Or and and it's that way you're reinforcing your brand. It's easy to

share, and it's easy to remember. Mhmm. And that

way, if, you know, you're talking to anybody.

And right now, you just don't have an easy way to follow

the show. Yeah. It's terrible. Yeah. It's the worst. It's the

worst. Yeah. Because that's you just want it easy to to follow with a show

and click and play. And Okay. Well, that's that's good to know. Your

audio levels are great. Your I thought you sounded great. Like I said,

there's, you know People love my voice. I get so many people like, your

sound so soothing Yeah. I think is interesting. Yeah. You're very

warm. So They like that. So

am I missing opportunities for to tell

I mean, they're not really stories, but is there is because I you know, you

talk about edutainment. Like, I don't know that this show is delivering

that. No. But you're you're definitely

the for me, I love the fact that it's takeaway.

Like, when I leave this because there are times when,

you know, you listen to somebody tell their story, and they had this phenomenal father

that did everything. And you're like, okay. So step 1,

get adopted by Dan's dad. You know, it's like, how am I supposed to do

with that? So here, you're like, here's, like, here's what we learned when she

did this. Here's a way to, you know and you're you're

being really obviously just honest. Like, look, I get bored with

stuff. How do you get pumped up to do another hotel contract? So

I thought it was great. And that's probably why you're getting good feedback

is because there for a while I forget.

I think it it might have been Don Miller all about you need to tell

your story. And people will identify with your story. And I'm like,

okay. But not if it takes you 40 minutes to tell it. And

there's a lot of details there that I don't really care that your daughter You

don't really care. No. And it is you're introducing somebody

to a stranger. And unless they have

an amazing story, it's It's hard. It's really

not good. You really yes. Yes. Yeah. I don't think you're, you

know and what I do sometimes is I will ask

those questions and then take them out of the recording.

And then what you did, you you have her start off my fun fact.

Because I will say, like, I just did one. I have my notes here from

Jodi Crangle. She's been, doing voice over for 17

years. She had a she was doing audio back in 2002. Well, I I

weave this into either, a, does it deliver value to the audience?

Or, b, can I just weave these fun little facts into the intro

instead of taking 10 minutes to listen about, you know, the time she was in

a canoe and the thing, and they're like, yeah, okay? Yeah. Yeah. So

no. I think I think it'll help you stand out.

I just So you like it you like it then? Yeah. Yeah. Well,

I'm a little too far logically leaning.

So and I'm a teacher. So when you give me things that I go, oh,

that's that's something I can act on versus

you know, and you kinda have to go, well, is my audience here to

get inspired or to, you know, up

their their game. You know? I'm trying It's a mix it's a mix of both.

Yeah. It's a mix of both. Like, I did one I recorded

1 Friday with a a guy who's he was general counsel of Fitbit

when they went public. Oh, man. There was a lot of fun

energy around that story, and so we talked about that a

little bit. But and then he also had some concrete tips.

But not everybody's gonna be that way. You know, most people's work

is boring. Yeah. Well, what I always do

is I I listen to what question did I

ask, and then I listen to how long did they actually

start answering the question? Because we do this. We give them a lot of

background so they can better answer the question. And depending on the

question, a lot of times, I will cut that out. I'm like, my audience doesn't

need to hear the background. And then, likewise, many of

our guests will give us tons of background before they actually answer

the question. And so I always try to cut out all the

fluff Yeah. And and cut that out. And then I listen to the answer

and go, a, did they actually answer the question? Because

sometimes you ask them Sometimes they don't. Yeah. They're like, well, that's, you

know, and especially if you get into people who get interviewed a lot, you just

pull their string and they're like, oh, well, back in the day when I like,

oh, here we go again. So did they answer the question? And then does it

deliver value to my audience? And if it's entertaining, okay. That's

valuable. And but if it's you know, you ask them what's your favorite pizza, and

they go purple, you're like, yeah. That's not helpful. Thanks. You

answered the question, but you didn't. Yeah.

Alright. What about any other ways to promote it? Like Are

there any other shows like yours?

Most people I mean, there are some in house legal podcasts, but it and

I was just on one recently. They're mostly career

journey. Yeah. That's the main thing that people

do. Or they're legal shows about, you

know, like the supreme court term or, you know, some kind

of recent legal news. Yeah. Because

the the different ways to kind of promote it, either

a, be a guest on somebody else's show. And the advantage of that

is you know, you have podcast listeners

when you do that. Newsletter sometimes, if there's a

newsletter about legal stuff that would fit your audience, you might

see if you could advertise in there. But the the one

70% of podcasts are discovered via word-of-mouth. So that's

like at the end when you're like, there's no, like, share this with a friend.

And when you do when you do that, a lot of times we feel really

weird when we start doing self promotion. And and you'll say,

like, hey. You know, like, if somebody, you know, maybe

needs, like, the stuff, like, our website's root. Com, and you're like, oh, that's

whereas if you go, hey, today we talked about such and such. We learned a

lot of great you could even throw this into the Jerry Springer. We learned about

this. We learned about that. And like, do you know somebody else who's really struggling

with contracts right now? Could you do me a favor? Could Could you just share

this with them? You know, go to the phone, click the little button in the

upper right hand corner because they're gonna think you're awesome because you shared this great

content because it's great because you're still here. And I get to grow my

audience, or just send them to my website, you know. And then, again, that's where

you throw the follow link and go to town. And it's, on one hand, it

sounds stupid, but on the other hand, a lot of YouTubers are still telling us

to like, subscribe, and ring the bell. And I know what that button does. You

don't have to tell me. So why are they doing it? Because you go, oh,

you know what? Well, the the call to action is probably my hardest thing

because, you know, I feel like there's a few kind of shows.

Right? They're like the people who are celebrities, and they get paid to do the

show. They're people that are using it as a sales funnel.

Right? And so they're promoting whatever their stuff

is. And then there's hobbyists, I guess, kind of like

me. I don't have I think if I

had a coaching business or a training something or another, this

would be a great way to promote it, but I don't. So Yeah. And you're

really the goal is to you know, you're just growing your

network. So Yeah. I don't know if you would wanna throw in

a, you know, would you like to be a guest on the show? Or if

you know specifically who you're looking for, then maybe that's not a great thing

because then you're gonna get a bunch of people who don't fit. Or, you know,

do you know somebody who would make a good, you know how do

you go about finding your guests? First of all, I started with topics.

So a lot of that prework was topics that I wanted to know about,

and then I used my network to source those

people. Then I went you know, I have a big LinkedIn network.

I found people who are big voices in those areas. I've had

3 authors on who wrote books that I really

liked and wanted to talk to them. That was pretty amazing.

You know, that's you know, again, as you said, like, it's you're paid in other

ways. Like, being able to to meet these people I'd never have an

opportunity to meet has been really amazing. Yeah. So

So in that way, your show is, you know, successful.

Right. So that's the good news. You know, it's like congratulations. I always say

when somebody says, well, I just wanna talk about Batman in the basement with my

friends. I go, the minute you put out your first episode Yeah. You've done it.

Congratulations. You are a successful podcast. It is hard,

though, as you know, even if you're not trying to

get downloads, it's really hard not to use that as a metric. Yeah.

Yeah. It's we all it takes how long have you been doing the show?

Since November. Yeah. So it'll take a couple years before

like, I haven't checked my stats in about 3 months. I mean, I I kinda

look at them when I'm uploading stuff, but, you know, the whole, like, where

you check them every hour, you know, that's that's a

hard habit to break. Well, thank thank you. This has been really

helpful. Thanks for taking the time to listen to the show, which I'm sure was

not that germane to what you do, but I appreciate That's actually

it's funny you say that because there comes a time

when you guys are really getting into a conversation. And when I have no

idea what you're talking about, I'm like, oh, that's good content. Like, that's when you

because because there's, like, jargon. Like, I was listening to a show about model

trains, and I was like, I have no idea what they're talking about. But they

were like, oh, and that thing with the thing, and you do the and I

was like, this is this is content you can't get any place else. And

so, and when you were like I said, that one time you brought in, like,

a real life example, and I'm feeling this and that. I was like, this is

exactly what somebody who's in your shoes is like, finally, a

show for me. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

again, thank you. I I, I love your shows. Thank

you. So really appreciate being able to talk to you

and taking you taking the time to look at it. Yeah. And these are really

I got to tell you, the call to action and the wrap up are things

I haven't mastered yet, and that that's those are really good

suggestions. Excellent. Awesome. Well, if you have any other questions, as

always, let me know if I can help. I will. Thank you so much,

Dave. We'll see you. Take care. Alright. Bye bye.

So I'm so happy this exists because that is me

talking before I worked at PodPage. So if

anybody ever says, oh, you just say that because you work there. I can say,

this is what I said before I work there. And

one of the things that Stacy wants is

to be seen as a thought leader. And so we talked after we

hit stop, and she's doing a great job of growing her

network, which was one of her goals. But I said, if you

really wanna be seen as a thought leader, yes, you can do the Jerry Springer

at the end, but you might wanna consider doing a solo show

and maybe sharing a story where you learned a lesson in

working in the law field. Because when you do a

solo show, you grow your influence. And when you do

interview shows, you grow your network. And with

that, I will also point out, if you haven't figured out already,

this show is done when somebody signs up. And right

now, we got an empty chair. No waiting. If you would like to

sit in the hot seat, go out to podcasthotseat.com.

Not only do you get some

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If you don't wanna continue your subscription, you don't have to.

But check it out, podcast hot seat dot com

because there's always room for improvement. I'm

Dave Jackson. I help podcasters, and I would love

to see what we could do together.