Washington Square. On air is the audio town square for the Washington Square Review. Lansing Community College's literary journal. Writers, readers, scholars, publishing professionals, citizens of the world, gather here and chat about all things writing. Hey there. This is Melissa Ford Lucken, editor for the Washington Square Review. I'm here today with author Annie Fox, and we're going to start off by talking about her newest release, A Life on Two Planets. Hey, Annie.

How you doing, Melissa?

I'm doing great. So tell us about this newest release.

Well, it's my first dive into science fiction. I have to admit, I'm not really a sci fi fan in terms of those are the books I read or even the movies I watch. But this story about an interspecies hybrid who actually has to leave home to find home made me feel like I needed to set it on two separate planets. So there I was in Sci fi land.

All right, when you say that it's not your go to genre, what do you usually read?

I read a lot of biographies.

Okay. Cause that makes sense, because this story is. It sounds like it's an identity journal on a quest for finding oneself and finding family.

Yeah, for sure. The difference between birth family and found family really plays into this whole search. Yeah. This girl's on a quest and she goes 40 light years to find home. You gotta give her props.

For sure. So give us a little summary of the way that the story starts.

It starts on her home planet, which is called Furae, which is pretty dry, barren planet. It's the kind of place where you don't want to spend a lot of time outside. It's actually revolving around a red dwarf star, so there's not a lot of heat. Everything's kind of tinged and red. And Leda Centaur is by profession a biologist, which is a kind of hard thing to be, specializing in botany. Not a lot of stuff grows there. She finds something about her past, her lineage, because she is an interspecies hybrid, one of a kind on her planet. And she realizes that she needs to find the truth about her other half, the part of her heritage she knows nothing about. And she kind of jumps ship, takes an escape pod and finds herself on Earth. Not like ET because she didn't crash there. She went there intentionally. And she doesn't want to phone home. She wants to find home.

What was your inspiration for this? Dang.

I wish I could tell you sometimes. It's really clear. But I've always been intrigued with the insider versus outsider kind of story. What that does to a character in real life or Fictionally, where you need to change something, where. Where you are in the present moment at some point becomes unaccept, unsustainable, and you either cave in or you do something really, really bold. That fascinates me. What gives people the courage to break out of a cycle that clearly isn't working for them?

When you said it takes courage, talk a little bit more about that. Why does it take courage?

Because everybody wants us to be what they want us to be.

Right.

And when you buck the system, you get negative feedback. Human beings are kind of wired to. To please. If you think back on our origins outside of the cave and the warmth of the fire and the other humans around us in our tribe, if you went out there by yourself, you probably didn't survive. And so it got really good at reading micro expressions. If I tell a joke and you kind of like, give me a flared nostril, I know maybe that didn't go over too well and I better either apologize or get a new joke writer. I don't want to be ostracized. And that that is true of all of us. Now we're all people pleasers because on a real cellular level, our survival depends on our belonging into a group.

I'm intrigued by what you were saying about the micro expressions. So as a person goes throughout the day, they're constantly perceiving the expressions of others and then perhaps making expressions that they're not even aware of. And those expressions are part of the communication between people.

Absolutely. And you know, I write for young adults. Both of my novels are for ages, I say 13 and up. And who is more hyper aware of the judgment that comes on them 24,7 in the real world online than teenagers. And so I'm trying to encourage my young readers to take the step they need to find home, to find their found family.

Talk a little bit more about your main character's journey. What kind of challenges do they experience that a reader could relate to?

Leda Simtar is a very emotional person. The planet she comes from, not so much. The people around her lead with logic and kind of a Zen acceptance of things. When Leda is upset, and she often is, and by that I mean off balance, whether she is feeling the injustice around her, if she is happy about something, if something strikes her as funny, she will laugh out loud, she will cry. She doesn't hold back. And she's always been made to feel there's something wrong with her because she is so reactive. And so her journey is really to find the truth, which is that there's nothing wrong with her. She has been forced into a society that has no place for her. So when she ends up on Earth, she is hoping, despite all the terrible things she's been educated to believe about Earth, that humans are an aggressive species. And not only that, if anyone finds out that she's from another planet, her survival is at stake. That takes courage. To move into that environment with this open heart and open mind to find out if she could possibly belong amongst the people who are more emotive.

I was interested in what you were saying about. In her place of origin, people spoke poorly of Earth. What kind of stuff did they say about Earth that she brought with her?

What they say is that we have the lowest host rating of any planet in the galaxy. Don't go there.

Okay. All right. Because that's. That does add an element of bravery. If she's willing to go someplace where she thinks that, you know, it's not a good place to go.

Yes, yes, for sure. And I think whenever we move into the unknown, you know, the known is, as inhospitable as it may be, at least we know it, Right? And it's kind of literally, she steals an escape pod and takes off into the unknown with all this kind of misinformation in her head that all humans are X, Y and Z, so stay away, this planet is off limits. And she does it anyway because her need to belong is so strong.

Well, that's something we see in here in present day Earth is people getting, you know, messages about other people in other places that, you know.

Yeah, yeah. She is othered in the big, in the biggest way. She's also six and a half feet tall and everyone on her planet is barely five feet tall.

Okay.

So not only is her emotional behavior, her irrationality, her unpredictability making her a standout, physically, she is a standout.

That's a really interesting contrast that some people probably can relate to. Talk a little bit about your creative experience of writing the book. How did it feel while you were writing it?

It felt so right. Because Lida, okay. I was working on it last spring. I live in Northern California and I was able to see springtime on Earth through Leda's eyes. So remember what I said about this barren red tinged planet where very few things grow and there's a lot of sand and a lot of wind. Inhospitable. And she comes to this green place and she hears not only birds and sees clouds. She sees a blue sky for the first time. She hears water running in streams. She's absolutely enchanted by all of it. And I got to have that experience. I mean, I'm kind of. I'm a naturalist anyway. But the idea that I could see something and then ask myself the question during the writing period, what would Leta think about this?

As you were describing nature, I could see how that the visual aspects of nature really tie in with emotions. And I never thought about that, really. Just all the different colors, the smells, the sounds, the temperature, the texture of things, everything. So if you came from a planet that really had virtually none of that, and you're an emotional person, I think it would seem like an expression of, like, the planet is talking to you emotionally through nature.

Wow, you're making me cry.

Well, you kind of gave me chills because I never thought of it that way. And I've spent. You know, I like to go out in nature and go on hikes and things. I'm never one to know exactly what I'm looking at, so I can kind of relate to that, learning about it. Just visually.

I was just going to say the diversity of it is also part of it, because she lives in a place where there is no diversity, and if there is diversity of species, then the message is, try to be more like us. But here she. She lands in a forest, and there are all these different kind of trees. And her thought is, not only does she notice that these are the biggest plants she's ever seen, but the idea that they are thriving in their community.

Mm.

And maybe even because there are so many different species right there growing right next to each other, that is, somehow they give each other strength and resistance to whatever may be there to make them lesser than they are thriving because they are all in it together. She notices that right away.

That is beautiful. That's awesome. Let's talk a little bit about your other writing. This is. This one is kind of a teen, young teen, but you've also done middle grade and even young readers. So talk about the difference between the writing process for those different age groups.

Yeah. Well, I have an undergraduate degree in human development, so I'm very interested in all of the different phases of childhood and what we can take in, how we take in messages, language, pictures. And actually, the first book that I wrote, I wrote and illustrated it. It was called People Are Like Lollipops, and it was published before I was legally old enough to sign the contract. I was an undergraduate at Cornell, and at that time in New York, you had to be 21 to legally sign a contract, and I was not. So I had Told the publisher who wanted to offer this to me that I needed to take it home to my mom. A little bit embarrassing, but the book is a book that helps very young children, I would say three to five year olds to think about. Yes, we have many, many differences between us and among us, but the truth is we're all people. And the metaphor here is that lollipops come in all different sizes and shapes and colors. They come from different places, they come in different wrappers. But when you come right down to it, all lollipops are just lollipops. And all people are just people. And so this book, at the time that I wrote it, which was many decades ago, was probably my first foray into celebrating diversity. And here I am this many years later telling you about an interspecies hybrid who is looking for her people.

It doesn't surprise me that thematically you would still be in the same space because I think a lot of writers do explore similar themes throughout their creative lifetime, just in different ways. And as a reader, I think sometimes people are drawn to different authors just intuitively by the themes that they explore. That's just my own theory.

No, I totally agree with you. And I think part of that is that the reader who goes back and obviously the stories are different, but the theme undergirding all of it may be the same. It's because the reader on some level knows that he or she needs more reinforcement, more exploration of that theme for their own life.

And books that you can read at one age and then reread again later at a different age. A lot of times you'll get, you know, similar things, but you'll also see new things. That's. Have you ever met anyone that's read that particular book, you know, as a child and then later, how did that go?

Yes, yes, it's amazing. People are like Lollipops was. Was actually read by Captain Kangaroo, who was. Had a kids show, I don't know, you know, where, where you are in that spectrum. Here's the thing. And he read the book on his, on his TV show and I guess it sold copies or something. But not too long ago, I got a message via my social media that someone told me that it was her favorite book as a child, that her mom got absolutely sick of the request, can we read? People are like Lollipops. But that's the book the girl wanted to hear. And now she's a grandma. And she was sad that she didn't have her copy anymore, but I told her that she could get it online and she did.

That's amazing. And yes, I know Captain Kangaroo. He was one of the early influencers.

I think so. Yeah.

Apparently you had a book club that sold you copies, so that's pretty great.

I thought so. I was honored.

That's. Yeah, I remember Captain Kangaroo. That's a flashback. All right, let's talk about middle grade. So. So how is that to write a book for that particular age group which is around 8 to 12?

Yeah. They are just starting to feel for better or for worse, the pressure of the social group around them. That feeling of who's in and who's not. Who are the popular kids? Where do I fit in? And so I wrote a book for girls actually, called the Girls Q and A book on friendship. 50 Ways to Fix a Friendship without the Drama. Obviously this is non fiction, but the idea of giving advice, that's straightforward, clear cut. Oh, I should mention this, since 1997, I've been kind of an online Dear Abby. I've been receiving emails from teens and younger kids and adults for the past 25 plus years. And I've answered over 70,000 emails. And so I know how to give advice. And most of the advice I give had to do with a friendship or a relationship that's gone south and literally help. What can I do? It typically is, at least from an outside perspective. You know how it is when you're in the middle of one of these dramas. You just have no idea what's the best move to make. But if you were to talk to an unbiased friend and say, what should I do? Your friend will say this. It's typically tell them how you feel. Right. Or. Or take a vacation, Take a break from this relationship. Yeah, stuff like that. It feels like common sense, but when you're in the middle of it, you cannot fathom any of it. It just feels like every possible step is like a landmine. You're just like, I'll make it worse.

Right.

Well, so I wrote this book for girls on friendship. It's really for, I would say 8 to 12 year olds. And it's 50 questions that I got from my online space from real girls in this age who are actually wanting some specific answers. And so what I ended up doing was giving a one page with an illustration and the questions on the bottom and then one page with my answers. I love that is I had some friends over and didn't invite one girl. Then she found out.

That happens.

How come you didn't invite me?

Right.

So the illustration is the girl who didn't get invited, confronting the party girl on the bus. And so I say, okay, here's what you could say. And I always want people to tell the truth. Oh, gee, did it get lost in email? I did invite you. Or, you know, whatever it is, just tell the truth. I know it hurts and it's scary sometimes, but I think people know when someone is BSing them. And if you ever want to, I mean, if you care about the friendship, you better be honest. And the other part is that everyone makes mistakes. And even if it was you didn't intend to hurt someone, you apologize.

Yeah.

Yeah. The difference between fiction and nonfiction, or writing for teens and writing for younger kids, and whether it's middle grade nonfiction or middle grade fiction, I would say the difference is probably more life experience, and you want to meet them where they are. And so if you know what it's like to be in middle school, most of us have some vague and haunting memory of what it was like, oh, my goodness, then you could probably do a pretty good job addressing your reader. I think that's where the true connection of writer to reader happens, when you understand where your reader is at. At. And when you could create a fictional world with characters that are somehow echoing that space. And then ideally, you get to move that character and your reader with that character through the obstacles to get to some area beyond it, where you go, okay, I'm no longer in that space. Those things are not pulling me down anymore. I can see more clearly now, make better choices. I can be happier and more relaxed in my life.

Right. Witness how to navigate things, you know, from a safe distance. I think that's one of the things that everybody.

That's the power of fiction, right?

Yes, absolutely. From a safe distance, you can see these things that other people go through and how do they, you know, navigate? What choices do they make and how does that turn out, exactly? One of the other things I was thinking about while you were talking about your approach to the middle grade is that it sounds. It's like really straightforward. And it sounds to me like middle grade readers appreciate just straightforward. This is what I think. This is what, you know, you might do. Just come right out and say it. And I could see how at that age, the way you're describing it, they're really questing for information because they're experiencing everything for the first time, and they want to make their own choices, but they need information to make the choices.

Right. I never tell anybody what to do. When I give them advice, I say, okay, this is what I hear you saying. I understand. I understand why you're upset. I felt that way in these kind of situations too. Here's what you might do. And then I usually say, good luck and let me know how it goes.

Right. And do they write back? Sometimes they do.

Sometimes that's the most gratifying part because when that happens, instead of just kind of launching some supportive advice out into the ethereum, you actually hear that it helps somebody. And I don't know, that's why I do what I do.

How many emails do you usually get a week?

Oh, by now it's really trickled. I mean, like I said, we started this in 1997 and with no advertising, it was mind boggling to me. Where did these people find out about me? People from all over the world literally are writing to me. But now I got one last week, which was probably the first time in like six months that I'd gotten one. And it was, it touched my heart because this many years later, it's probably the. Obviously the next generation, maybe more, but the question was essentially the same. There's this guy I like, she said, and we're friends. I've known him for three years. We talk a lot. He makes me laugh, he's a good guy. But whenever we get chosen to pair up on a class project, he acts like he's quote, disgusted. And so she doesn't know. And I'm thinking, okay, take the mindset of probably a seventh grade boy. He likes her just fine, but he doesn't want anyone else to know. And so his act of like, oh, do I have to work with her? Maybe non verbal, but he's picking it up and it sends a message to the rest of his friend group that he doesn't really like her.

Right?

And what I told her, I told her, do that ring true for her? I said, does that sound like it might be possible? And I'll wait to see what she says.

That's pretty amazing. Do you get letters from parents as well or talk to parents? Because I know you have written a book of advice to parents too.

That's this one. It's called Teaching Kids to be Good People. Progressive parenting for the 21st century. Yeah, I do get letters from parents. As with the other stuff, more back then than currently, it's harder to be a parent now. I have two grandkids, but with social media, who is influencing your kid and in what direction? I'm all for boundaries. Teenagers need to have boundaries, tweens need to have boundaries. And so parents often Feel left out. It's a big shift for them from the kid whose whole face lit up when you walked in to pick them up in kindergarten to now where they act like they don't even know you.

Like the other example that you gave.

Yeah. So it's really hard for parents to let go. And I think the balancing act is being that safe person, non judgmental, so that your kid will always feel okay to come to you with whatever they need to talk about.

I appreciate what you're saying about how parenting now is more challenging because you're dealing with influences, immediate ones, friends, family, school, you know, and social and community events. But you've also got the influences from outside the Internet and social media. And so that is the parent can't predict those influences or can really control them.

You don't want to be a spy. I would never suggest that.

Right.

It's not fair. It ain't easy.

Right.

Usually what I say to parents, it's not easy being a teenager, a 21st century teenager, and it's not easy being the parent of one either. The best you can do is get whatever resources you can on your side of the fence. And like I said, be as open and non judgmental as possible. Which doesn't mean that you can never say to your kid, I'm not okay with that. You need to give guidelines. Too many kids, I've spoken at many public events at schools, and there'd be some kid raising a hand and they'll ask a question. I say, what do your parents say about that? And they'll just kind of shrug and say, my parents don't care what I do in a way. That sound a little sad?

Yeah, that does sound sad.

It sounds sad to me. It sounded sad in the way that girl was telling me she was trying to be cool about it. My parents don't care what I do. In other words, hey, aren't I lucky? I can do whatever I want. But the other part of it is I want my parents to care for.

Sure.

I can't do this by myself. I'm 14.

Right? Yes, absolutely. It gives parents a lot to think about. And it's constantly changing.

Yes, yes. And their kid is constantly changing. So, you know, if you don't create a safe space for your kid to check in with you and you check in with them, it's not just one way. That's. That's the one thing that I think the best advice that I ever saw and read it was in a green room. I was about to go on on stage for a keynote. And there was just a plaque on the wall, and it said, if you are not modeling what you teach, then you are teach else. Wow. So if you want your kid to be open and honest, then you need to be open and honest with them. Which doesn't mean that you lay a whole bunch of inappropriate stuff at their feet. They're not your friend. But the idea that you could share things that are going on with you and let them know, hey, I'm really sorry I just snapped at you. Something's really going on at work. It's not about you. And then if you could just say a little bit about it and ask your teenager, what do you think I should do? My gosh, that scores huge points. You're showing your teenager that you appreciate their input, that you trust their judgment, and that on some level, you are teaching them that we, parent and child, even as you're growing up, have a trust bond here, that we could talk to each other about stuff that's going on. And that's the modeling what you teach.

Certainly. And they're also modeling how to have a conversation where you seek input. Yes.

Yeah. We can't do this alone. I think so many kids who write to me feel like they cannot show their vulnerability, that their parents need for them to be perfect. How's it going? Oh, great. It's great. Everything's great. It's not.

That's a lot of pressure.

Yeah.

Do you sometimes get pushback from parents?

No, I don't. Not yet. Because I'm not telling kids what to do, and I don't know. Parents may read the emails that I send to the kids, and if they do, often, I say, you should talk to your parents about this. So mom and dad, if they're reading the email, we'll read that for sure.

What kind of stuff are you working on currently?

Oh, interesting question. I'm working on a new book. It is dealing with the theme of an aspiring young writer loses control of her fictional character while she's trying to find her own plot line in the real world.

I love that.

So what happens if your characters don't take direction from you?

Right.

Whose story is this anyway?

Exactly. Yeah, I think many writers could relate to that. Having the character just all of a sudden start saying and doing things, and the. The plot that they hadn't planned is no longer going to work.

I know. It's just like. And so my young writer is. Is like, what is going on? So obviously, this is a book that has magical realism in it, which I love.

Well, and the great thing is, is if you are a newer writer, a younger writer, that's giving you an awareness that this is a normal thing that happens. Doesn't mean that you've done something wrong in your process. It's. That is part of the process.

Part of the process.

Yeah, for sure. And you just gotta roll with it. Awesome. If people would like to find you online, where's the best place for them to find you?

Well, let's see. If you go to any fox.com you'll find my link tree and places where I am. It's probably the easiest thing to remember.

All right, Annie.

Fox.com awesome.

We'll be sure to include that in the show notes as well as the titles, the titles of the books that you mentioned.

Thank you.

Awesome. Well, thanks a lot for joining me today.

It's been really fun. Thanks for having me.

Thanks for stopping by the audio town square of the Washington Square Review. Until next time, this has been the Washington Square on air from Lansing Community College. To find out more about our writers, community and literary journal, visit LCC me Writing is messy, but do it anyway.