Hello there.

We would be honored if you would join us.

Spark of Rebellion.

Hello and welcome to Spark of Rebellion, the weekly Star wars podcast that brings you news, views, and updates from a galaxy far, far away.

I'm your host with the most, and this week, the right mic.

I allegedly had my mic set to my computer microphone as a professional podcaster last time we spoke, but nonetheless, I am here.

I am mark, of course.

And today we're going to mix things up a little bit.

Normally we do a little bit of news, but honestly, Star wars news is getting a little bit repetitive and it's drying up a little bit.

Time of year, probably time of bloody cats on all the dishes.

Took a leitch from a break, probably.

I don't know, speculation and things have just dried up a little bit.

So we're gonna actually try and we're actually gonna try and do something a little bit different over the next few weeks.

Maybe intersperse a little bit of opinions, maybe bring some of the segments back that we've probably not done for like 203 episodes.

But whatever, who's counting?

I'm not counting, but you know the drill.

If you enjoy it, let us know.

Kev, Danny, everyone that joins us@sparkarebellion.com.

support and is one of the crew.

We thank you and appreciate you and do let us know what you think.

So we're gonna go into today, we're gonna talk about the release, roller coaster, Disney Star wars movies, tv show announcements, and why they keep sort of flipping and flopping and maybe getting a few things a little bit wrong.

It's gonna be quite interesting, I think.

But in order to do that, I can't talk to myself.

Contrary to popular belief and pretty much what I've done for the last 1 minute, 38 seconds, I do need to bring someone else on.

And who else would I choose but the beard that should never be sheared?

It is, of course, Mister Gary Ehler.

All right, geese.

That's a good one, that, innit?

I see you smiling at that one.

I like it.

All right.

Yeah, it was all right, that nice.

Thank you.

Welcome, everybody.

Two, three, three.

Didn't you know?

Episode.

Is that what it is?

Going through them?

Yeah.

I like your rhyming intros as well.

I was expecting something a bit spicy like, normally Mark takes this opportunity.

We, Mark and I have known each other for quite a few years now, and we've always got this kind of bounce going on and, you know, you know, usual lad bollocks, you know, lads, lads, lads.

But I think Mark uses this an opportunity to get his little.

These little digs into me that he wouldn't necessarily do.

So I was expecting something a bit spicier, mate.

A bit more cutting, but mellowing as I age.

Better to lift people up than it is to put them down.

Oh, yeah.

Yeah.

I.

Okay.

You're not gonna be on a cathed board meeting anytime soon then, mate.

No, I've not got a cutting edge.

I've actually been watching succession recently.

You know that tv show that's really good?

It's a success, that show.

It's pretty brutal, isn't it?

Good?

Yeah, it's really good.

But I could.

I would.

I would.

I'd get fucking eaten alive, mate.

Well, yeah, same.

I was expecting, um.

I don't know, something.

I don't know is a Jedi on the streets and a sith between the sheets or some.

I was expecting some rhyming quite like that, actually.

But I'd have that.

I'll take that mate off, but I'll bank that away in a few months.

I'll dig it out and use that on you.

All right.

All right.

Well, only the wording, I hope, remember.

I know.

No, I'll never remember.

We are going to go into the old release thing and just talk about it, because I think it's quite interesting and we want to try and mix it up a little bit just for our own sanity as well as everyone else's sanity as well, because the news is drying up a little bit, but we've not done it for a while.

What Star wars stuff have you been up to this week?

Star wars stuff.

Keeping quick.

I'm carrying on with Star wars outlaws.

I'm loving that game so far.

Everyone seems to hate it, but that seems to be the consensus for everything these days online.

Is that true, though?

Because when I saw, like, the first week reviews and said it was pretty good.

Yeah.

If you go on YouTube now and just search for Star wars outlaws, you have, like, 80% swing.

Is like, people slating in 20 people saying, I think it's a decent game.

It's never going to win game of the year, but it's a good playthrough, and it's a great.

It's a great experience to be in that Star wars world, you know?

Well, because they're saying that the main character is not attractive enough.

Fuck off.

That's not true.

Know what I mean?

And they're saying, no one's doing that.

Is that true?

I'm swear.

I swear, dude.

Right?

This is the crap that YouTube.

YouTube is doing.

Outlaws.

I am doing it.

Well, I need to have a look.

Yep.

And then also.

Because it's the.

Because it's the ten year anniversary of Star Wars Rebels.

Believe it or not, I stuck on the first episode of Rebels.

And that's actually a decent watch, mate.

Yeah, he's good in it.

That first episode on Lothal.

And when you meet Ezra for the first time and the Empire.

What's he called?

Lothal.

No, no.

What's the episode called?

Oh, I can't remember the name of the episode.

But you can't remember the name of the episode?

No.

A spark something, isn't it?

It's a.

It's spark something.

I can't remember the exact.

Probably not.

No, no.

What is it?

Spark of Rebellion.

But, yeah, it's a decent watch, that.

And, dude, that's just how.

That's how long I've not seen the episode for.

You watched it the other day is literally listed when you press the button next to the button.

Come on.

Like, if anything, like, it could be.

Spark or something else.

Yeah.

Listeners will back me up on this.

If you're re watching something that you've watched multiple times, you don't pay attention to episode titles anymore.

You just hit play and do it.

So rebellion was the episode, mate, that I watched, and it was.

It was a good watch.

What did you watch or do?

Anything?

Star wars ever?

Last week I read a book.

What was it called?

Began with.

It begins with an s.

Yeah, something.

Yeah.

Just.

Just looking at those youtubers, right?

And I.

There's a lot of it, like the failure of Star wars outlaws.

Shut up.

Or it's always these things, like, wish I'd known this before I bought Star wars outlaws.

Like, shut up.

Yeah.

You see what I mean, though, right?

It's very negative.

Yep, yep.

How the game is, you know, terrible and blah, blah, blah, blah.

Don't listen to any of that shit if you've not played it yet.

It's a decent playthrough.

It's very good.

Well, you know, we will be double negatives.

We'll be negative to the negative us, which turns it into a positive, which is clear that obviously that's a rule.

What have I done?

Well, so, since we last spoke, about a few weeks off through various things, work, holidays and such, like.

And I did finish the living force.

My man kev.

Yeah, he told me to.

So I got this other.

I always get Star wars books, like, when they come out.

So I got this rise and fall of the galactic Empire, which had been really key keen to read.

And Kevin messaged me on Facey B, saying, you got to read it.

And I was like, I need to get to it, mate.

As you know, I'm struggling with this living force.

And then one day I went back to him and I was like, start it, mate.

And he went, ah, that means you finished living force.

Well done.

Yeah, it did take a while.

Three months it took.

Jeez.

Yeah, it really is.

And it was funny because, look, John Jackson Miller, I really, really like his stuff.

Like, I'm gonna get Batman resurrection, probably, which I think might be out, like, this week.

Pre order that, mate.

Yeah, yeah.

Good shout.

Good shout.

I might kindle that one, you know, because I can't see being one that I read more than once, but I might.

So I might kindle that one.

But, dude, living force is just bitten off way too much.

Like, there's some good stuff in it, and there's, like, John Jackson Miller.

So there's always a little Easter egg.

And where it's set in the timeline, there's always something that links to the next thing.

Brilliant.

Love that.

But man just bit off more than he could chew, I think.

It was like, okay, let's tell us.

Let's tell a story where all twelve Jedi masters on the grand grandmasters on the council have got to do something interesting, every single one of them.

And it's just too much.

And there's that many moving parts to it that you're like, I'm not really investing in any one bit of it.

Plus throwing in, like, qui gon and obi wan as well.

It's just like.

It was just a bit much, you know, just.

And that's not to take anything away from him, because he's a great, great writer.

Great author.

Knows Star wars really well.

But it just.

That one is just like a three out of star.

Three out, three out of five star, which is, like, still good.

It's like, you know, that's why class is good, but just a bit much.

But this rise and fall, the galactic Empire, I think I'm, like, 100 pages into it, a third of the way into it in a week, which says it all.

Oh, it's brilliant, mate.

Kev.

Kev said it was brill.

It's fantastic.

Kev knows his Star wars, doesn't he?

Knows his beans, don't he?

He wants to come back on the show as well.

Just get him on.

Let's get everyone on.

Okay.

Now?

Not right now, not immediately, no.

But let's arrange that.

All right?

Yeah.

Done?

Yeah.

Kev, you on?

Elsev make it so.

To quote Star wars.

Shut up.

Star wars fans are having a laugh.

Calm yourselves down.

Calm yourselves down.

We've got right member called Danny, but I don't think he has any podcast equipment to come on.

He's not into podcasting, the guy.

Not really, no.

We'll see, though.

See if we can get him something.

Snowball, whatever.

Do anything.

Yeah.

All right.

The release roller coaster.

Look, it's no, it's no.

I don't think it's a surprise to anyone.

Is it that Star wars, since the acquisition in 2012, has been known to announce things and then never quite follow them through?

So we figured it would be quite nice to spend a little bit of time on that because we often spend time on it.

You know, we digress a little bit through our news articles, but it's just quite interesting to see this, I suppose, now almost with, like, 1213 years behind us.

Like, the Force Awakens is ten years old next year, which is wild, man.

And, you know, if we cast our mind back, October 2012 acquisition was announced, I think, and revealed the plans for the new trilogy start with the Force Awakens.

Then they went through after this.

Force awakens, or around the Force Awakens time, it was like, all right, look, we're gonna do these anthology series, you know, rogue one, a Star wars story, solo, a Star wars story.

We'd heard Boba Fett, we'd heard Obi Wan Kenobi, so on and so forth.

Disney plus came about 2020.

I think that launched in, like, February, March 2020.

And I.

And things just seemed to change.

A lot of the films got slated.

Certain things, like Obi Wan became limited series.

We saw the Clone wars resurrected.

Finishing that series off.

Ahsoka was announced.

Boba Fett was made into a tv show.

And I just feel like, you know, even up to, like, 2023, like, we were there at celebration when they announced a lot of these movies.

We were in the room when they announced a couple of them.

And don't know, it just feels like the excitement levels dropped because how can we really trust it anymore?

And then there's been the critical reaction to a lot of these things.

There's the dodgy fan base sort of divisiveness going on.

It just feels like a complex maze of announcements and how to really get this right.

And I think running alongside that, you've had all these kind of weird failures in the DCU.

You've got, frankly, like, a lot of failures on Marvel's side since 2019, since Endgame, but before that, like, they were cooking on gas man, they'd release these phases and they'd, for the most part, they'd stick to them.

Maybe 80, 90% of them.

The things that got announced would get released and it just feels wild that Star wars can't stick to things.

And I.

I think the.

I don't know, a place for me to probably pick up is like, do you think all this stems from what, looking back, seems like a really incoherent plan for the sequel trilogy?

Do you think that's where it all went a bit?

Did it all start with that?

Going a bit tits up, if I'm honest, mate.

I think it started with solo.

I think that's where things started to fall.

You saw the crack start to show a little bit.

Then I remember seeing a magazine article, can't remember the mag, but they, they alluded to all.

The crux of the story was before solo, the peeps at Lucasfilm and Disney assumed, but because it was a Star wars project, it was just an automatic billion dollar film and it was automatically going to do well and all that stuff.

And then when Solo flopped a little bit, I think that's when people started to look up and be like, hmm, we're gonna have to plan this a bit more.

If I remember correctly, the plan was when they first bought.

When Disney first bought Lucasfilm.

I believe the plan was to do a saga style film one year and then a spin off the following year and go in that kind of cycle for at least five, six years, whatever.

But, yeah, so I think when solo not.

I still can't understand the.

If people think the flop is because it made a ton of money still, right?

It still made.

It didn't make a billion dollars, but I think it still made quite a ton of cash for them.

They considered it a flop, though.

Yeah, they did it, man said worldwide, 400 million, but the budget says the budget was 275 million.

I'm assuming that's remarketing and promotional costs.

So it made like 125 million, which.

Yeah, so they would consider that a flop, right?

Yeah, exactly.

So I think it's from that point, mate, I think from then on, they were like, okay, we can't guarantee that something with the Star wars badge on it is going to return big bucks.

So from that point on, they canceled the spin off films.

And then I think as an offshoot of that, it was like, we're not doing all this other stuff, so let's put all of our time in the sequels.

But that didn't land either.

So, yeah, you had this kind of domino effect so I think, for me, I think from solo, you then start to see the cracks show, and then.

Well, do you think that was limited?

Do you think that was almost sort of fell foul of the Last Jedi's sort of dodgy halo effect, do you think, from the fan base?

Because that was, like, May 2018 when solo came out, which, you know, you'd say may summer blockbuster.

You know what else came out?

May 2018 or what was May 2018 movie releases, like, what big marvel ones?

Oh, it was Infinity war around that time, wasn't it?

Oh, there you go.

But that was that, like, June time?

Mm hmm.

Yeah, I just.

I just wonder if it was, like, something to do with it coming off the back of the Last Jedi changing, or Deadpool two came out changing, like, oh, yeah.

So Avengers, Infinity for Infinity War was April 27, Deadpool 2, May 18, the week after a solo.

But, yeah, just.

I just.

Just wonder if there was that Infinity War issue, the fact that Star wars films up until then have been Christmas releases.

So it was a thing.

And then on the back of the Last Jedi, like, did it just get a little bit of backlash because Star wars fans were, oh, you've screwed up.

Luke Skywalker.

Are you gonna do the same to Han Solo?

And then there was, like, the reshoots or the rewrites, the director changes, the Ron Howard stuff, you know, I just wonder if it was, like, several little things that added up to that.

Yeah, probably, dude.

I think because a lot more things are documented now, and you have a lot more leaks and everything going on, I think people are just more aware of what's going on behind the scenes a little bit more.

So all those little things that happen along the way, because back in the day when they were making the original trilogy, that was such a troubled production, especially that first film, but because there was no social media and there's nothing going on that you could latch onto.

So if there was a leak that said, you know, I don't know, George Lucas has been, you know, a naughty boy with something that then overshadows the entire production.

And so you think, ah, this is not good or not even anything untoward, but if there was a leak that said, like, the script isn't working, you know, like, with Obi Wan, the tv show on Disney, they had that thing, didn't they?

Where it leaked that the script wasn't quite ready, so they put it back, the release date back so they could work on the scripts, and everyone lost their shit over that.

It was like, oh, my God, it's going to be a disaster.

You know, Obi Wan's done.

See you later.

And then I think it took Ewan McGregor to come out and say, everyone just shut the.

You know, this happens on pretty much every single film and tv show.

You just don't know about it.

So this is completely normal.

You know, it's all good.

Go back to what you were doing, and you'll enjoy Obi Wan, you know, a little bit later than usual.

So I think when you have things like that as well, if people are a lot more aware of behind the scenes and whatnot.

So when you have.

You're talking about all the little details when you have something, the way that Luke was handled in the last Jedi coupled with Cath doesn't know what she's doing to, you know, solos a disaster, you know, on from that, you just have this snowball effect.

So by the time you get round to finishing the sequel trilogy, you know, the.

All the controversy and the fan opinion, it's got more media attention and more traction than the films themselves.

So then what do you do, then for forward planning?

You know, you talking earlier about all these things that get announced.

Sorry.

And they don't quite follow through and we don't get them, you know, is that because they're just so worried about pleasing certain fans or not pleasing certain people and firing directors, firing writers, getting, you know, gone are the days, mate, where, um, it's a case of, like you and I used to do years ago and still do to a degree today.

It's like, just ship it.

Just do the thing.

Ship it.

It'll be fine.

You know, there's that little.

There's something cool about that sort of feeling of flying by the seat of your pants just a little bit, you know, so you haven't got everything completely nailed.

You're going on instinct a little bit.

So now I think every little detail is mapped out and planned and accounted for, and so I think that's affected things, mate.

So, yeah, from.

From the last Jedi and definitely solo, you have all these little things that culminate into a bit of a shit show.

I think you're right about the people.

Just wouldn't know a lot of the behind the scenes if it weren't for the world that we live in right now.

And also, I do think the youtubers, we joke about it a lot, but they need clicks.

And the way to get clicks is to put something clickbait in.

Clickbaity stuff is often negative or listical stuff or sensationalized versions of tidbits of information that have been blown out of proportion or made into things contextually that they just aren't.

And it feels like, I wonder if Star wars just gets that as much as, like, Marvel and everyone else does.

I just wonder if they get that quite a lot because you, like, it's easier to beat up on stuff than say, I really enjoyed that, or, I'm really looking forward to this for this reason, you know, who's that going to activate?

It's not going to activate anyone.

You're not going to get views on that.

And, you know, the director changes back in the day.

Like, Batman forever, right?

Went on to gross, like, was the highest grossing film of certainly of that, like, quarter, I think, like second or third of that year, 95.

And it just.

You would never have.

Who gives a crap that Keaton had left and Joel Schumacher took over from Burton or, you know, whatever Robin Williams was pissed about what happened to him with the joker in the Batman, so just didn't take the Riddler gig, you know, no one knew about any of that until much later.

It's just totally different.

It's just totally different now.

And I don't think that necessarily helps.

It's.

People just see every version of it and they don't need to.

I've got a little bit of a soft spot for Batman forever.

Oh, yeah?

How grateful?

Great film.

You know, it's hated, isn't it?

Especially Batman and Robin, but Batman forever, I don't know.

Batman Forever's great, man.

It was the highest release, highest box office gross in 1995.

Apollo 13, toy story, ace Ventura, dyad with a vengeance.

Absolute classic.

Goldeneye, Waterworld.

What the fuck?

Water.

Okay, seven, so.

And, dude, Batman Forever's a great movie.

It's like the.

It's the.

It's the, you know, you just accept that it's just not part of the Burton universe.

Those two films stand alone.

Forever stands alone.

And Batman and Robin, you sort of have a bit of a laugh with.

Yeah, Batman and Robin is just a different type of Batman film.

It's great.

But, like, look, I suppose.

Look at Batman.

When Keaton was cast, all the letters that went in.

Imagine that now, even to a point like when Heath Ledger got cast.

What are you doing?

You an idiot?

And then you look now at what's happening with, like, David Corin sweat in the DCU.

People are beating up on the film before they even know it.

And I just feel like Star wars probably gets a lot of that, the tv shows get a lot of that, and it's probably a lot of it's delivered by people that have just got a very set vision of what they want.

And I think a lot of people might have been let down by the last Jedi enough because they expected loot to be a certain way.

And that then, you know, yeah, this.

Is a really big problem, I think, for writers and whatnot over at Lucasfilm, because I can't.

I can identify with that on a certain level.

So as a, as a.

I've been a designer now for, Dunno, 14 years, 15 years, something like that.

And I can tell you now, one of the biggest problems that designers have is when they send work over and they send work in to be looked at and approved, whatever.

The biggest battle, the battle is not, do you think the work is any good?

That's not the problem.

The.

I think the main problem is the person that you're sending the work out to.

They've already got a preconceived image in their head of what they wanted to see.

And if what you've produced doesn't quite align with that, even if it's great work, it will always be a, yeah, you know, not really what we're looking for.

So I can, I can absolutely see from both sides of the camp almost.

It's like from Fandom's point of view, you know, you've got people that are queuing up thinking this is going to be different actors and different things, but, you know, it's still going to be a Batman film, still going to be great, because the last two were brilliant.

And then you get that and you're like, that's not what I was expecting.

So that equals rubbish or equals bad, whatever.

So I imagine it's a similar thing with the old, the old Star wars dudes that Lucasfilm, they're so up against it because you've got all this fandom and it's almost like dudes fandom split into two sects almost as well.

You've got the people that are just happy to just be chill about Star wars, right?

They don't love it.

They don't hate it.

They appreciate it's a Star wars film, might like certain aspects of it great, you know, whatever.

I didn't hate book of Boba Fett.

Didn't love it.

Didn't hate return the Jedi.

It's not my favorite Star wars film, whatever.

But then you've got this other camp and, you know, we've mentioned these guys a lot, like the youtubers who are doing the rounds and have done for the last year or so, like Star wars theory.

Nerd crotic, geeks and gamers, all these sorts of guys, they just, you know, they will just destroy everything because they're not.

The people at Lucasfilm haven't phoned them before and said, look, tell me about when you're eight years old, Christmas morning, watching Star wars.

Tell me how you feel at that point.

Put yourself in your shoes then, and I'll make a Star wars film that appeals to your nostalgic memory of that moment.

So they don't have that, you know, they don't have that experience like they used to.

So that equals wrong straight away, because it's not what they're expecting.

So, um, yeah, it's a very similar thing with the Batman stuff as well.

We just said, I think the exception being the Nolan stuff, perhaps, I don't know, because that was already.

That was pretty.

That was given to you in a way that was like, even before the first film came out, is like, this is going to be way different.

Way different.

Whereas the sequel trilogy, dude, if we think about that, that wasn't marketed as, like, this is a brand new era of Star wars.

This is a.

This is gonna be a brand new thing.

It was like, all the dudes that you know and love are in it.

C three.

Po R two.

Luke's probably gonna be in it.

You know, there's a trailer with what's his face, so.

But then you did.

But then they did try and double back a bit.

It's like, I don't know, Rey's like, the new thing.

Like, raise the new face of Star wars.

Then we've got, you know, the black dude.

Don't worry about his name.

You won't remember his name.

He's just the black dude.

Maybe he'll be a Jedi.

Probably won't be because he's black.

So you had all this stuff going on, dude, and I think that tampers with your.

Your perception of it.

I mean, how do.

The Rey film is meant to be canceled, right.

The upcoming Rey film, if you believe all the rumors and stuff, it's definitely on hold.

They've done the same thing that they did with Obi.

Wanna.

Hmm.

They were like, script's not working.

Story's not there.

Let's can this off.

We'll come back to it in a little while once it's done.

So that then fuels, like, all these youtubers.

Who, the other guys that we mentioned?

Is it Mike Zero?

Always Mike zero.

Yeah.

I think you make some good points, dude.

I think some of the challenge that you've got with Star wars is very unique to Star wars as well, because you've got like, I think the Harry Potter series will struggle with this as well, the HBO series, because in theory that should be ten times better than the movies.

I like the movies.

I like the Harry Potter movies.

But then they're not the books, and the books are really deep and they're really good and they're very well put together.

And the HBO Max series can tell a seasonal story, you know, one book over 7 hours, 8 hours, 6 hours, whatever, but not two and a half hours or in like with the Deathly hallows, whatever, 5 hours.

And the, I think the Star wars issue tends to be, as you alluded to like, you've got a lot of people that are very vocal that are paying the bills for the people that are enjoying Star wars.

So the kids that are watching Ahsoka and thinking, fucking, ah, this is cool.

It's Ahsoka.

Their mums and dads, or probably their dads are like, that's not Star wars because that's not making them feel like you said how they felt when they were eight years old.

But you know, Star wars always been for kids.

We know that.

But if you think about what do you then do as Lucasfilm?

If you try and write for that guy, they're always pissed off because they don't want the old stuff because it's not like the old stuff.

Like if you put Luke Skywalker in, who's the same at 60 as they are at 19, I can't think of anyone.

And so you can't tell that story to please them.

So then you think, well, I'll do new stuff with new characters or old characters, and we'll try and maybe recapture some of the magic that you want or you classes magic.

And they don't like that because it's not Louis Skywalker.

And so, you know, but then that's, the complexity levels are then compounded by the fact that now the people are coming of age that love the prequels, and it's always, even according to George Lucas, it's always been Anakin's story.

But yet you sort of ignore Anakin in the sequel trilogy.

So you get, like, from a story perspective, I don't think, I don't think any other franchise has got that problem.

I think you could argue that, like probably Marvel and DC have got that problem to a degree, but the only basis that they've got is it's from the comics and the get out of jail there is, well, this is an adaptation of a comic and obviously it's not going to be the same.

And a lot of people just go, well, that's fine.

We get that because it's medium to medium, and it feels.

It just feels like style.

I can't think of anything else that's got that.

That's got that problem.

It's almost like if they tried to make a back to the future sequel, it would.

Unless it was very special, people would batter it because the effects would be better than back to the future.

Two.

We don't actually want better effects.

We want it to look a bit jankier because that's what we love about it.

And, you know, I just feel like that nostalgia element, it's like when you go back to your old school, holy shit, innit?

It's like, oh, yeah, I remember being here and I remember it being good, and I also remember it, like, in certain other ways, but I don't really give a crap about being here.

Why am I here?

Who cares?

It's not changed my memory of it, you know?

And I think what you expect in, from Star wars and from Lucasfilm and Disney is you expect, like you said, you're expecting them to honor your own personal memory.

You know, it's why people always say the book's better than the film, because you interpret how the character's taught, you interpret the visuals of the character, you interpret the landscape.

And when it looks different on film, it's never going to be as good.

Never going to be as good.

So I think that can be really problematic.

I just wonder if, because of all that, and let's be honest, Disney's not, not wholeheartedly, not to blame on this one, because it did make a few missteps.

I don't think it's wise to announce a pile of stuff, rescind it, then announce another pile of stuff, rescind it, then keep announcing.

Like, surely just learn your lesson.

I think that's a problem.

But do you think this is just putting people off?

Do you think, like, guys like you and me, we see more negative on it than we did two years ago?

Like, we've got.

We're all.

We're more apathetic about it than we were two years ago?

Yeah, we are.

And I think it's a problem if you're.

If you consume content, if.

If you're the sort of person that doesn't give a shit about social media, you're not on it that much and you're not on YouTube a lot and stuff like that, I think you're.

I think those sorts of peeps are normally okay because you're just going through life, appreciate and enjoying what you should be, right.

Which is your family and your mates and travel and seeing the world and enjoying books, all that stuff.

You're not drawn into the, um, what would you call it?

Echo chamber, whatever it's called, you know?

Exactly.

Yeah.

You're not drawn into all that stuff because you honestly don't care.

Like, if Lucasfilm said, or Disney said, we've got a new Star wars film that's due out in 2025.

That was announced in 2023, you're like, oh, sweet, that'll be good.

When we go to cinema to see that, and then it gets cancelled and you find out through a friend, I'm looking forward to that Star wars film.

Oh, mate, that's been cancelled.

Oh, all right, then.

So that's.

If you're that sort of person, then I think it's.

It's not going to put you off because you're just sort of, you know, whatever.

But I think for the majority of fandom, which links back to what you're saying about Star wars having a unique problem, so many people are vocal, have got a voice on it, that it becomes an issue, and it also links back to what we're saying earlier about people being exposed to what's going on behind the scenes a lot more.

So if you've got a load of.

And I agree, if you're gonna announce a bunch of stuff and then keep canceling it and whatever, that's not good.

And that does add to the whole just putting people off, because it creates some.

I think it creates a kind of.

There's no confidence in what's going on now.

You know, if you've got a solid.

And I think you and I have mentioned this a few times, mate, because they don't have a feige, and I think Cath wanted to be that, to a degree, but she's.

Yeah, she's clearly not that, because they don't have someone like Feige who does oversee all the stuff at Marvel.

And let's be honest, not many films have slipped.

Marvel don't typically announce a slew of films and then cancel them or whatever.

I think they've missed, like, you know, missed a few, but not nothing along the lines of Star wars and Disney and whatnot.

So I think because there's no one like that.

It creates this air sometimes of, like, well, even this, when this film does land, if it lands like this Ray film, for example, is it gonna be shit?

Because we've had a script.

And that's been shit.

So they've delayed it and have to redo it.

You know, it just creates that kind of, you know, what are they doing over there?

Sort of thing.

And that's always been a massive surprise to me.

Dude, I've never, ever been able to figure that one out in that you've got somebody at the top of the tree, right?

Whether that's Bob Iger, the other guy who took over for a while before Bob came back.

You've got people like that at the very top and from the top down, you've.

If you ignore all the other stuff and just look at Marvel and Star wars, you've got Marvel over here who make a ton of cash.

The majority of their films are well received.

They've had some clangers, especially on the Disney stuff, be honest.

But for the most part, their stuff is well received.

They mostly hit deadlines.

It's all good on this side of it.

Looking down on Star wars.

It's just a shit show.

They're missing their deadlines.

They're cancelling all of their shit.

Everything they put out is one massive backlash.

People are leaving all the rest of it.

I've never understood why somebody at the top doesn't say, how do we sort that out?

Who do we need to bring over from here over to there to sort that out?

Or who do we need to bring in that's, like, this person over here, all these people, so that this doesn't keep happening?

I've never.

I don't know what the answer to that is, dude, but that's a weird one.

It's a tough one as well, because you want, you know, if you think about the Marvel stuff, you've got Iron man, which is a pure action superhero movie.

Yeah, I would put that in the vein of, like, a very simplistic, straightforward, very good, you know, but very straightforward movie.

Captain America, a bit of a period piece, winter Soldier, espionage piece.

You've got Ant man heist movie, you know, and then you start to get into some of the other stuff where they're trying to sort of diversify the way they tell stories and then, like, daredevil and stuff.

That's very, very different.

Very, very different.

Very, very, very different.

Dude, that first series of Daredevil, by the way, brilliant.

Fantastic.

Yeah.

So good.

You look at that in comparison to, like, Star wars.

Like, they try to do different things, and whether you like the acolytes, a prime example, whether you like it or not, whether you feel it's forced inclusion or not, a lot of it was bad storytelling.

It was.

But that gets outshone, and the genuine critical thinking gets outshone by the dickheads that just don't like inclusivity or get pissed off that it's two witches, or get pissed off that there's more representation across the board.

Like, no one's pissed off that Camille is not a caucasian british male.

No one's pissed at that they're annoyed at the two witches or the black girl.

And you're like, what the fuck is wrong with you?

And, you know, it's not the problem that I think you've then got a Star wars is I.

You can introduce things like the High Republic, which is, as a book series, comic series is really good.

When you try and translate them, they just fall foul of the Luke Skywalker thing, because the people that are slaying it just want to see Luke Skywalker.

But when they do, they're not happy.

The only time we all got excited, and I'm counting us in this as well, was when Luke Skywalker was return of the Jedi, Luke Skywalker in the Mandalorian, and that was badass.

We just got more of.

More of something that we'd already seen that we really enjoyed, delivered in a way that we wanted to see it.

But not everything has to be that.

And I think that's one of the challenges with Star wars, is that everyone, it has to be, like you said earlier, it has to be this or this, and if it's this, it's right.

And if it's this, it's wrong.

And that's absolute rubbish.

And, I mean, I don't know how you fix it.

I mean, I clean house.

Well, I'd wonder if you do.

I wonder if you just get.

Just cancel everything, right?

And get Dave Filoni to write us Luke Skywalker, something.

Recast it.

Put Sebastian, Stan, or someone else there, and just go write me a Luke Skywalker thing in the mandalorian timeline, and let's just fucking have at it, and let's just.

Then let's bring everything else back in.

Yeah, Starbucks felony.

Right?

So let's go to this website, chatgpt.com, compose a script for me looking positive fandom over the last year for a Skywalker dude.

Yeah, I mean, you're right.

That is one option, right?

Is to just reset everything.

Just have a hard reset, and just have.

I don't mean narratively or in canon.

I mean, like, the people that are there at Lucasfilm at the minute to keep hold of Filoni and Favreau.

Because those who, those two have least got half a brain cell that's got a Star wars badge on it, right?

At least those two know, to a degree, how to make good stuff.

Favreau knows how to make the big, successful blockbuster films.

Filoni knows how to do the successful animation and that stuff.

You put those two together, I think that's a good one.

That's one option.

The other option is that you just clear the lot out.

You just say, look, kath, darling, this is not working right.

You must be pissed off with this.

We're all pissed off with it.

Just go and get your Starbucks, go home, you know, put you on garden, leave, whatever, and we're gonna get someone else in.

And that way Disney can then spend some money that's gonna get a decent return.

Because you can then just pinch, if you've got the money there, you can pinch some writers who have done this stuff successfully.

You can look into, like, the DC writers, you know, like, all the cool writers that have done DC tv over the years.

Like the guy that did arrow, the guy that did, um, the adventures of Superman, um, Superman and Lois.

You know, that recent series, I think it was, um, Jeff Loeb.

Right.

I think.

Anyway, those type of guys that have, like.

No, like, what's the best way to put it?

Who can take something like Star wars and absolutely know the law and the characters?

What's going.

Balance, I think, is key.

Exactly.

Yeah.

Just find out what's going to work.

So basically, you just draft in this new, new series of writers and creators who have been there and done it and have not only got the t shirt, but, you know, all the rest of it, and you can just have this new direction, mate.

Just keep.

Keep what works, but you've just, you know, changed it up.

Because at the moment, it feels like we're kind of going round in circles a little bit because you've got cath at the top, you.

And I don't know her Percy, of course, so we don't know what she's saying behind the scenes or and all that stuff, but it just feels like something goes out and it's dreadful.

Like the acolyte and because she's got a company hat on, she has to say, well, the reason why it failed is because all of these youtubers are slating it.

And the reason why it failed is because all these people hated it and your voice was louder than the people that liked it.

One, what she should be saying, but she can't say, is, yeah, I agree.

It was a piece of shit.

I put my faith in the people making it because I personally couldn't write a Star wars script.

So I put the faith in these people who can do it.

I saw it and thought it was shit, but I can't press, like, the eject button because we spent $300 million.

So I think we just need a clean house, mate.

That's what I would do.

But it's such a difficult thing when you've got something like Disney, where they've got investor days, they've got stock to think about.

You know, if you just suddenly say, I'm pausing some of the biggest ip that we own from a tv and movie and gaming and multimedia standpoint, obviously the stock takes it.

Someone's getting fired.

It's not as easy.

It'd be lovely if it was as easy as doing that, but I just don't know how you approach that.

And I think this underlying subtext of just people being.

People complaining about wokeness and whatever that even means these days.

I'm not even sure they even know what that means.

You know, if it's someone that doesn't look like you, that's.

That's in a tv show, that doesn't mean it's woke, you know?

And I just.

I don't know how you deal with that because you've got.

There were genuine concerns, like I said, with things like the acolyte, the rise of Skywalker.

I can't think of really any book of Boba Fett, but a lot of people just said, oh, this is Walt Disney shit.

And now what you're seeing is, you know, you'll get, like, and or season two, a trailer.

I would imagine we'll get a trailer for that pretty soon.

You then see, like, on some of the websites in the comments section, not even bothering watching this Walt Disney shit.

And you're like, well, you absolute bell end, of course.

Like, if you.

If that's what you're putting out there, then you will find something not to like.

You will find something not to like because you're looking for it at that point.

And I just.

I wonder if that subtext is actually becoming more.

More prominent now and does it affect decision making?

Does it affect.

Because we all don't want that level of shite to exist, you know, idiots be idiots, but it shouldn't affect what genuine fans do and what they want.

But then if you're a studio, I don't know how you account for decision making when, you know, we know what it's like.

Review bombing is a thing people can go and brought onto my own.

We live in a world where aggregated things mount up into a collective opinion which can subjectively affect the box office.

And I don't know how you deal with that as a business.

And I just feel like Star wars is probably, like I said, susceptible to that more than anyone because, you know, there's three or four generations of fans that have gone through it now.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

No, I agree, dude.

It's a.

And when I say about cleaning house as well, I don't mean like snap of the fingers and like, on a Friday, everyone's gone.

On a Monday, it's like new people.

Um, but you could certainly start at the top, right?

You could certainly say, look, Kathman sack, Mickey Mouse.

You got.

Yeah, Mickey, you're out, dude.

Yeah, get on your steamboat.

Goof it.

And you.

Thank you.

Yeah.

So get them out.

And then just get someone in that can, then transition that.

See, if it takes a year to do that, then fine, keep all of felony and all that lot.

But then that person at the top can then be like, right, okay.

I've seen what's not working, so we're going to address all that.

So that's what I mean.

Like, you know, transition the top level dudes out, and then you keep the successful, talented writers and stuff.

You maintain that it's been like any industry, dude.

Like the games industry, typically you have these studios where the top execs don't have a fucking clue about what gamers actually want and stuff like that.

But then you've got this really talented team of developers and designers and stuff that actually make in the thing and care about the story and stuff.

But ultimately what happens is if something doesn't go very well or doesn't sell very well, it's those guys that get laid off and then the top execs are like, right onto the next project that's probably going to bomb.

But it's cool, though, because we made a few bucks, so that's all right.

So I feel like it's a little bit like that with the movie industry.

Like these days you have these people at the top, but I keep saying Cath did, but unfortunately, she's the woman with a name above the door.

Do you know what I mean?

So, you know, we keep having these projects where not all of them, but some of them are just really not landed at all.

Starting with the sequel trilogy, man.

And like, that really did turn the tide, I think.

Yeah.

For fandom in a way, I think people could put up with solo to a degree because it was, quote unquote, just a spin off.

But when the last Jedi, Hitman, I think that was.

Yeah, so don't know.

But then what's the crack with, like, future stuff, dude, if we're talking about stuff that they keep announcing and canceling, if we got anything to look forward to.

I was just sort of looking at that to wrap up on because I think it's a good place to leave it.

Like, I don't, and we don't even really know the status of anything at the minute.

So we've got the mandalorian and grogu that we know always, we suspect is coming out May 22, 2026.

The re movie, we don't know the new Jedi Order, one, whether that's been cancelled or not.

Taika Waititi, we think that's just got binned very recently.

The James Mangold film, is that still on?

Rogue Squadron, that's kind of been delayed.

And.

Or season two, we know he's coming.

Ahsoka season two, we probably know he's coming.

Acolyte cancelled.

Lando, is that coming?

We don't know.

It keeps flipping and flopping.

TBC, probably more Star wars visions, probably more tale of the Jedi, which would actually be quite cool, obviously, the young Jedi adventures that sort of carries on.

But then we've got, like, the Kevin Feige film, the Rian Johnson trilogy.

We've had the cancelled, the guys from loft, lind Loft and all those guys and the Benioff and Weiss ones.

And I just feel like the things that we're really looking forward to, like, the heir to the Empire stuff is sort of being overshadowed by, like, okay, we've got skeleton crew coming out, but no one really knows what to expect from that.

And they've just done the same again.

Or Sean Levy's gonna do a film because he's hot off Deadpool, and you're like, well, so in short, the only things that we know about, I think a skeleton crew, heir to the Empire.

Mando and Grogu, Ahsoka season two.

I said Andor season two, didn't I?

To the Empire.

Yeah, to the Empire.

And then we've got.

But then we have got, theoretically, three release dates that are pencilled in for Star wars films.

We've got one in May and one in December 2026 and then December 2027.

So I don't know, mate.

I mean, I think I'm at the point now personally, like, until I see a trailer, I'm just not convinced it's gonna come out until I literally see a trailer.

Yeah, same.

I think one of those dates was reserved for the Ray.

The Ray film.

Right.

So they might flip it.

They might keep the date and put something else in there.

I don't know of any other films that are forever enough along that they can start production on anything.

Certainly not the Sean Levy film.

I think he's only just started that.

Right?

Working on that.

Well, he seems to be doing what Feige was doing and what Waititi had been asked to do, which is like, there's your creative freedom.

Like Mangold getting his, you know, dawn of the force sort of film, and then they go to seem to go to Star wars, to the board and the balls, like, nah, not doing that.

Not a fan of that.

Yeah, I don't know, man.

So I think, yeah, we had one in May and 1 December 2026.

It's probably gonna be a case of there's just one film now.

Okay.

Or something in 2026 and then another film in 2027.

One of those being the Filoni mandoversting, the other one, dude, who bloody knows.

TB Bloody c.

Been interesting to talk about that.

I think you could sort of go on about that for quite a while and go down so many different paths.

So maybe we'll explore a few of those, get some other opinions as well, get some guests on.

We'll come back to the news, of course, as and when.

There's plenty of news out there, but there's no sense as just recapping, you know, these.

These moved and shaken and cancelled movies and tv shows as they come out.

So we'll wait until there's enough news to do a good, solid news episode or we'll maybe do a new segment as we move forward.

We'll just see how.

I suppose we'll just see how things land.

It's an ever changing world of Star wars.

So let us know what you thought of this slightly different episode where it's basically just a full episode of digression, which is what we're here for.

The only way to build a podcast.

Two men chatting about stuff.

Obviously it's the format, but no, it's always been a pleasure.

Sparklerebellion.com support if you want to grab yourself a sticker or send us your love.

Can do that.

Sparkofrebellion.com support and Gazzler.

Been fun.

One that, mate.

Cheers.

Ears.

See there on the next.

Yeah, it's been good.

Just.

It feels like some chats that we've had at pub or at Christmas dance or whatever.

First day down at.

Down at pub.

Talking about style.

Yeah, it's been good, man.

So, yeah, we'll probably mix it up, I think.

Dude, I like this.

Let's.

Let's keep the news for when there's some actually decent news, and we'll deep dive into Star wars moments.

Cool.

So, thank you very much, dear listener, for listening to another episode.

That was 233, so, thank you very much, and we will see you next time.

And until then, take care of yourselves, and may the force be with you always.