[00:00:00] Eric Goranson: It's around the

[00:00:06] Eric Goranson: house.

[00:00:06] Eric Goranson: The word composite decking seems very simple to many people. Um, and then when you dig into it, I it's, it's, it's a word that's used to describe any. Wood alternative decking. That's on that's going on your, on your deck and there's different types. There's a traditional, like you mentioned a wood plastic composite that may be untapped like in previous years, or now it's capped with a durable cap stock now.

[00:00:32] Eric Goranson: Uh, There's a PVC option, which is polyvinyl chloride, and that's another product that doesn't even contain wood. And then there's also something unique to decorators called mineral based composite. It is a composite decking, but it's a composite of, of non-wood components. So if polypropylene and mineral like that, you would find in like the limestone, like calcium carbon itself.

[00:00:55] Eric Goranson: Interesting. When it comes to remodeling and renovating your home, there is a lot to [00:01:00] know. Well, we got you covered. Is around the house.

[00:01:06] Eric Goranson: Welcome to around the house with Eric G in Caroline B, where we talk home improvement every single weekend. Thanks for joining us. Hey Caroline, how are you?

[00:01:16] Caroline Blazovsky: I'm doing well.

[00:01:17] Caroline Blazovsky: How's everybody doing in radio and podcast land today?

[00:01:21] Eric Goranson: Ah, this is gonna be great. I'm doing great. We're gonna have a good time taking it outdoors today. We've got Jace from decorators. Welcome to around the house.

[00:01:31] Jase DeBoer: Hey, thanks for having me guys. Appreciate

[00:01:33] Eric Goranson: it. Hello, Jace. You guys have been really doing a lot.

[00:01:37] Eric Goranson: With that outdoor living space from decking to railing to just one huge resource online. Let's talk about what you guys do, man.

[00:01:47] Jase DeBoer: Yeah, absolutely. Uh, yeah. Decorators is, um, you know, from its. Early stages, you know, started out as a company that introduced the world to the black round aluminum Barister. That was the [00:02:00] big innovation at the time.

[00:02:01] Jase DeBoer: Right. Uh, everybody had the wood decks and then they would change those wood ballisters to aluminum. And that was, that was really where we started and, you know, come to now and it's. Decorators is truly a, a fully outdoor living brand from decking and railing to creating that entire outdoor living space.

[00:02:19] Jase DeBoer: Um, whether it be on the back of your home, the front of your home, um, it it's truly about helping homeowners personalize and enjoy the process as well as enjoy the actual deck, uh, at the end of the day.

[00:02:32] Caroline Blazovsky: And this is like a sexy topic. It's the hot topic. When we go to somebody's house, like no one asks about the kitchen anymore.

[00:02:38] Caroline Blazovsky: That's like old school now. It's like, dude, do you have like a hot tub? Do you have outside decking? What kind of grill do you have? Do you have lighting? And Eric knows. Cause my cohost has got it all going on out there. He just put a TV over there. So he's

[00:02:55] Jase DeBoer: it's, you're not alone. It's it's such a, a hot. Uh, trend right now, especially [00:03:00] with the past couple years of people being, um, maybe stuck at home or not trailing as much, um, the investment in this outdoor living space or, you know, really an extension of your home.

[00:03:12] Jase DeBoer: It's not even like a deck anymore. Mm-hmm, , it's, it's truly becoming like another room or rooms off your home. Um, and there's fashion and there's style and trends and, and the, the functionality of the space. And it's, it's really a fun place to be. Right.

[00:03:28] Eric Goranson: You know, it's funny. It is the least expensive way to add living space to your home that you can use for depending on your climate, a fair amount of the

[00:03:36] Jase DeBoer: year.

[00:03:37] Jase DeBoer: It for sure. And I think in some states they actually consider the deck as square footage on living space and like real estate. So, yeah, you're right. It's, it's an easy way to add another living room on your home for your family to enjoy just outdoors.

[00:03:53] Eric Goranson: Our

[00:03:54] Caroline Blazovsky: friend David that's, bomb's great. Who is an architect to the stars and he comes on the show quite frequently.

[00:03:59] Caroline Blazovsky: So he is a friend of the [00:04:00] show taught me this little trick that if you extend and match your flooring to your deck. So if you're in one living space and you basically take that same color tone and extend it to the deck, it extends that eye and makes that living space look so huge. Putting on a deck or an outside patio.

[00:04:17] Caroline Blazovsky: So I have sort of adopted that and philosophy. And it does, it makes for a smaller space where you actually have small living space feel so much bigger.

[00:04:27] Jase DeBoer: Mm-hmm yeah, a lot of, a lot of what we do at decorators from a product development standpoint is really start with exactly what you're talking about.

[00:04:35] Jase DeBoer: What's what's happening inside the home and how do we bring that outside? So it might be. The textures, the green patterns or the colors of the flooring that are inside. And how does that seamlessly transition to that room outside, or even fixtures and faucets and cabinet poles. And what are the, the trendy, uh, finishes you find there, those are gonna play outside perhaps in your [00:05:00] railing finish choices, and you start to really blur the line between inside and outside, um, and truly create kind an indoor, outdoor, seamless transition.

[00:05:09] Eric Goranson: Very true. Very true. And one of the things that I love is the composite decking out there. I will never for the rest of my life, I don't care where I'm building the house, not do a composite deck anymore. Cuz after putting in, you know, the various versions of composite decking over the last probably decade to 15 years, It has gotten so much better than the original kind of what I'd call non capped Trek deck.

[00:05:37] Eric Goranson: Mm-hmm that I had troubles with as an early adopter, but I, I am very happy to not have to stain or paint a deck ever again.

[00:05:47] Jase DeBoer: Yeah, you're, you're certainly not alone. And, and you're right. I, I, I think, I think you hit on a really great topic is the word composite decking seems very simple to many people. Um, and then [00:06:00] when you dig into it, I it's, it's, it's a word that's used to describe any wood alternative decking.

[00:06:06] Jase DeBoer: That's on that's going on your, on your deck. And there's different types. There's a traditional, like you mentioned a wood plastic composite that may be untapped, like in previous years, or now it's capped with a durable cap stock. Now, uh, there's a PVC option, which is polyol chloride, and that's another product that doesn't contain wood.

[00:06:27] Jase DeBoer: And then there's also something unique to decorators called mineral based composite. It is a composite decking, but it's a composite of. Of non wood components. So it's polypropylene and mineral like that. You would find in like the limestone, like calcium carbon. So interesting.

[00:06:43] Caroline Blazovsky: How does that hold? How does that hold up, Jace, like, so I've never, I don't think I've ever seen that particular

[00:06:48] Jase DeBoer: product.

[00:06:49] Jase DeBoer: It's the mineral based composite is, is. Incredibly unique and it holds up it's it sets the benchmark for, for quality and, and, and a premium tier of [00:07:00] decking in the industry. So there is traditional composite, which is certainly a fantastic product. WPC we'll call it even an NBC mineral based composite. Um, And the benefits that come with that are, you know, there's no organic material, so it's not gonna absorb water and you have far more versatility with that.

[00:07:18] Jase DeBoer: You can install it, um, more directly over a concrete patio or on a rooftop deck, or, um, closer to the ground in a ground contact in a moisture situation. It also, um, is incredibly lightweight. So it's about 35% lighter than a traditional wood, plastic composite. So even just working with it in your backyard, Carry around helps a lot.

[00:07:40] Jase DeBoer: Um, and probably the biggest benefit at least for builders is, uh, you're laying this decking down and you wanna, you wanna make sure this thing looks nice. Your seams, your 45 degree minor cuts. I don't know how many times you guys have done something where you build. You come back a couple days later and the weather is, you know, the, the heat [00:08:00] and the cold that 45 degree minor might have opened up a little bit.

[00:08:03] Jase DeBoer: Um, mineral based composite really addresses that by having the lowest thermal movement of any of these decking options. So your 45 degree mights stay tight, your seems stay tight. Um, and it looks the way you built it initially. So. Nice.

[00:08:19] Eric Goranson: Yeah, that was one of the problems that with the original kind of wood chip plastic stuff that they came out with the original composite decks mm-hmm I had more problems with that stuff because it wasn't capped.

[00:08:32] Eric Goranson: So anywhere around the barbecue where you would drip grease. That would, um, discolor and those grease stains would actually soak into the product a little bit. Yeah. And so it's very hard to get that out. Um, my mom and dad, uh, she probably 12 or 15 years ago, they were trying to come out back in that day with a composite fencing using the same deck boards with that same material.

[00:08:59] Eric Goranson: And [00:09:00] their house in Eastern Washington, it looked like it was made outta silly put after one summer. Sure. Because it was a complete failure of that system. Uh, just because it didn't hold up with the, with the, you know, 110 degree heat outside. It got too soft.

[00:09:15] Jase DeBoer: Mm-hmm yeah. That's, there's, there's a couple of questions that most homeowners ask most frequently.

[00:09:21] Jase DeBoer: You hit on one of them. Does it get hot? And the other one is, does it get slippery? Um, and the slippery one is, is becoming far more of a concern for homeowners because it is a, it is a wood, plastic, or a, or a wood alternative decking. And if it gets wet and you have more people staying in their homes longer, uh, they may be aging in those homes.

[00:09:42] Jase DeBoer: Uh, you're your deck being slippery is, is certainly an issue or around a pool. Um, you wanna have that kind of traction. So, um, something that decorat. Um, offers in our top of the line decking called voyage decking. It's the mineral based composite. Um, and our family's called voyage. [00:10:00] Uh, we feature something called enhanced traction, uh, and it is independently tested.

[00:10:05] Jase DeBoer: It is 34% or greater surface traction than any other composite decking in comparison that's in wet and dry conditions. So, um, goes back to kind of what we try to do is listen to homeowners, listen to contractors and, and try to address. Not just innovation because we can, but innovation to solve a problem that, you know, slip resistance is certainly one.

[00:10:27] Jase DeBoer: And because of the makeup of that decking two, um, everything gets hot. There's a disclaimer where everything gets hot in the sun. Um, but heat dissipation is also something. So if it is hot and the cloud comes by, um, certainly, you know, mineral based composite tends to. Lose that heat quicker. Um, and so, um, yeah, that's a big part of innovation is just understanding how you're gonna use these products, how builders are gonna use them and try to try to provide solutions to those problems.

[00:10:57] Jase DeBoer: Mm-hmm

[00:10:57] Eric Goranson: see, Jason, I live in the Pacific Northwest [00:11:00] and where we have this issue is on the Western side of Oregon and Washington, where we live out. We get that weather where springtime comes around and you have a layer of slime on everything. Mm-hmm mm-hmm so it doesn't matter if you've got, um, you know, wood deck or a composite deck, you've got this kind of thin layer of slime, which makes it, if you haven't maintained that.

[00:11:23] Eric Goranson: Can make it pretty slippery. So that added, added traction is really a big deal for your product, because that makes it so much easier to, to get out there without walking on ice.

[00:11:33] Jase DeBoer: Yeah. It's, it's, it's something to say it when we've had a trade show where people come and visit a showroom for a dealer and they put their feet on it.

[00:11:41] Jase DeBoer: It's, it's surprising how much traction there is there. So, uh, if you ever get a chance yet to, to actually get your feet on it and try it, it's, it's, it's substantial and it, and it makes a big difference.

[00:11:53] Caroline Blazovsky: It's so true. James, when you think about the climates and such different, different requests that [00:12:00] everybody has, right?

[00:12:00] Caroline Blazovsky: Mm-hmm so Eric Scott in the Pacific Northwest, what his. Trauma or his worry is right in my, in, in, in New York, we've got to deal with pollution, high humidity, high temperatures, heat. And I, and I was thinking as Eric was talking, you know, we deal with pollution, right? We get a lot of this black kind of city.

[00:12:20] Caroline Blazovsky: Looking particulate that lands on everything. So we do have to do a lot of cleaning and keep things really clean. And so that means people are apt to put pressure washers on this type of thing. So like, what do you recommend when people are trying to clean these surfaces? Cuz my concern with my clients always is that they're using these pressure washers.

[00:12:36] Caroline Blazovsky: Like they're going outta style and then they end up. Destroying the deck and putting too much moisture into this decking, and then you get rot and mold and sure, blah, blah, blah.

[00:12:44] Jase DeBoer: Um, it's a great question. You know, the, like you mentioned earlier, Eric, the reason composite decking or what alternative decking is so, so popular right now is because of the low maintenance.

[00:12:55] Jase DeBoer: And so, um, I, I would start with just simple soap and water and [00:13:00] a nice scrub brush. Try that first. Just give it a nice wash off. That's typically all it takes to remove some pollen or remove. Of the debris that started to collect over the, you know, going into spring. Um, and if, if there's something that for some reason isn't coming off, maybe it's like a little bit of pine tar or something that's, that's kind of sticking a little more, um, certainly a, a power washer is something you can do, but I would use it on the low setting and make sure it's a fan tip.

[00:13:27] Jase DeBoer: Um, cause what, what that can do. If you get too close and have it on too high of power, um, that, that really nice durable cap stock that's UV resistant and scratch resistant and gives you the aesthetic of that decking. Um, you, you can damage that if you go too hard on the power washer, but certainly you can use one at a low setting with a fan tip, I'd say about stick eight inches or so from the decking.

[00:13:53] Jase DeBoer: Yeah,

[00:13:53] Eric Goranson: we've got dogs. And so my composite deck, I in the back, it's a lighter gray. So in the wintertime here, they'll get out and play in the mud [00:14:00] in the back, running around. And, you know, there's only so much you can do with that. And they'll get up on the deck and I will look out there and I'm like, thanks guys for making that muddy.

[00:14:07] Eric Goranson: But I just get out there with some, literally with some Dawn and a, uh, like a scrub brush that you'd wash an RV with on a pole and 20 minutes. I've got it washed down. It looks good. Yeah.

[00:14:18] Jase DeBoer: That's, that's exactly. That's where at start every time for sure.

[00:14:22] Eric Goranson: Now it's funny, you know, the, the, how composite decks have changed.

[00:14:25] Eric Goranson: It was a great example. I was at old faithful, probably a decade ago, and they had built a composite deck around there. I think it was using the, the first generation TRX product. Mm-hmm . It was a test. It didn't do well because of that non capped. And I was like, wow guys. Um, and not saying anything bad about trucks at all, but this was just the difference of, of that generation of product to where things are now.

[00:14:54] Eric Goranson: It didn't hold up to that heat, the chemicals, the, the stuff it was, there was part of it [00:15:00] closed off because it had gone down from that typical, you know, solid stock, one inch down to. Oh three eighths of an inch just because the chemicals were eating. Yeah. It is amazing how these new products out there are so durable in an outdoor environment.

[00:15:16] Eric Goranson: And I always tell people when you're designing that deck, make sure that you design the frame underneath it. Cuz if you don't treat that correctly, you've got a top surface. That's gonna way outlast the

[00:15:26] Jase DeBoer: framing down below. Yeah, you, you are right on, uh, a lot of these decking products, you know, decorators included.

[00:15:34] Jase DeBoer: Um, can span anywhere from a 25 year to a 50 year warranty that covers the structure of the product, the, the stain and fade, uh, attributes of the product. In our case, a unique element for the warranty is we have a 25 year removal and replacement warranty in our decking, which means we stand behind it so firmly that if something goes wrong and it was our manufacturing issue, um, it was installed correctly.

[00:15:59] Jase DeBoer: But for some [00:16:00] reason it failed the 25 year removal and replacement is to. For decorators to remove the old product, replace it with new product and cover the labor to do that. And that last part is nice. A

[00:16:11] Caroline Blazovsky: very common that's really good. Yeah.

[00:16:15] Jase DeBoer: The way, the way that, you know, contractors, you know, have. A a vital business is to continue to move on to the next job.

[00:16:23] Jase DeBoer: And when they have to come back to a job and fix something, that was the error of the manufacturer, and they're also not being paid for it. That's, that's just a detriment to them. So we stand behind the homeowners and also our, our installers by just making sure that if something goes wrong, we're gonna take care of it there.

[00:16:40] Jase DeBoer: But, um, To your point on the structure though? The, the structure. Yeah. You have to make sure that that thing is, is done correctly. I think before we even hit record, someone mentioned, um, my ledger wasn't flashed correctly on the deck. yep. Things like that. Can, can give you a, a lot of [00:17:00] problems very quickly.

[00:17:00] Jase DeBoer: That's actually the most common failure point of a deck is the attachment to the house. If it's not flashed correctly and water gets behind, um, it doesn't matter how nice the decking looks or what you did. You're gonna have a failure of some sort. So proper joy spacing, proper flashing on your ledger, uh, proper footings, um, making sure that you're going down, if you're in a certain market going down, but all the frost line, um, those are all really important things to consider.

[00:17:26] Eric Goranson: And on top of that, I take it a step further, further before Carolyn you jump on with yours. I always tape the top of the, of the, of the joist and stuff. So all the wood framing on top is covered with a deck taper. It's basically a flexible flashing. Yeah. So that way you don't have any water sitting on top and you can extend the life of that.

[00:17:44] Eric Goranson: I learned that from a, from a guy up in Tacoma, that's a big deck guy that is a world renowned deck guy. Mm-hmm that? Uh, He just has done that for a number of years and kind of realized that in my market where we get six months of rain, it really extends the life of that [00:18:00] pressure treated framing

[00:18:00] Jase DeBoer: down below.

[00:18:01] Jase DeBoer: It does. Yeah. We have, uh, many, many builders in different parts. So when you're part of the country, you know, treated lumbers a little different than elsewhere to the Southern yellow pine and some markets. And I believe in your market, it's more of the sizes treated and, um, So, yeah, the, the joints tape is becoming incredibly popular for that.

[00:18:19] Jase DeBoer: Um, or in some markets using a ground contact, treated lumber that has increased retention is also a really good idea. And there's

[00:18:27] Eric Goranson: many, that's what I did. Don't mine. Yeah. It's ground contact and taped because I just went, you

[00:18:31] Jase DeBoer: know, and then there's some that choose. Uh, in markets like Colorado, where it's very dry and, you know, wood can tend to, you know, behave a certain way in that climate.

[00:18:41] Jase DeBoer: Um, they've just opted to go right to steel. Uh, and that's, that's been another option for, for builders too. So

[00:18:46] Caroline Blazovsky: that's what I was gonna talk about just as soon as you said, framing, I'm thinking about going to a steel using steel framing, and I wanted to get your opinion on that and how you think that fair is against a pressure treated or any other type of

[00:18:57] Jase DeBoer: frame.

[00:18:58] Jase DeBoer: I, I would say [00:19:00] pressure treated lumber is, is a wonderful option. Um, in fact, um, decorators is also associated with another brand called pro treated lumber, um, which is produced by the same company. It's Southern yellow pine. It's treated to different standards like above ground, ground contact, critical structure.

[00:19:17] Jase DeBoer: Um, the tags easily tell you that. And so, um, I, I built my deck with pro wood ground contact, tree of lumber, pretty close to the ground. And. Incredibly satisfied with the quality of, of what we received there. Um, in certain cases you might be in a market like, like Colorado, like I mentioned, where, um, steel has just become very popular.

[00:19:36] Jase DeBoer: And, um, if you wanna go that route, it's absolutely a great, a great decision. Um, many deck builders we work with use. Steel framing. They'll use mineral based composite decking. Uh, there's now fasteners that have been developed to work with steel framing that are more self tappers to cause you need a different fastener for wood versus steel.

[00:19:54] Jase DeBoer: And, um, yeah, they're, they're all really great options.

[00:19:59] Eric Goranson: Nice. See, that's [00:20:00] great. And, and with the way lumber prices have been so ridiculously high out there that made steel much more affordable for a lot of people as well, because that wasn't affected the same way at lumber prices. Were

[00:20:11] Jase DeBoer: it? Yeah. At that time, it wasn't, and it's actually swung back the other way again.

[00:20:15] Jase DeBoer: Now where woods come back into, um, uh, a reasonable price and, and steels actually become higher. So it's good to have options and you can kind of play where you are in that market.

[00:20:29] Eric Goranson: That's great. You guys, you know, we've been talking about deck surfaces now let's, let's dive into railings because mm-hmm , that is one of the things that, that has really come a long way over the last decade.

[00:20:40] Eric Goranson: You know, so many people would get out there with their two by sixes that were treated and they would get out there with some, you know, two by two stock. And that was your traditional deck railing for like the last 40 years. And then all of a sudden we started getting into all this aluminum glass wire, all those different things.

[00:20:59] Eric Goranson: And it [00:21:00] has changed how decking looks yeah. Across the

[00:21:03] Jase DeBoer: country. Yeah. I I'd say the biggest change is, um, a bit of what you mentioned moving from. In your framing planning where that railing is going to be by having a four by four lagged into the framing, then you do the traditional, like cut the notch out of the decking.

[00:21:20] Jase DeBoer: So your four by four is sticking out. That's still very popular in some markets, especially the Northeast that kind of colonial. Um, like large white railing look, um, yeah, that Cape Cod style, it's still very popular there. And, um, it's a great, it's a very great secure way to do a railing, but another option that's come out are these, these more, um, contemporary aluminum railing systems that have a base plate.

[00:21:44] Jase DeBoer: And as long as you've mentioning structure earlier, as long as you've put blocking underneath where you're gonna put that railing, you can lag through the decking, into the wood structure underneath, um, After you've applied the decking and you can install how really nice aluminum [00:22:00] railing, uh, whether that be with pickets, whether that be with cable or otherwise.

[00:22:03] Jase DeBoer: But that's been the biggest change is because you can build a deck and then maybe in a couple years, you can, you can update the railing without updating, like going desk

[00:22:15] Caroline Blazovsky: can. Right, right. Just give it, it's like a fashion statement. Now you can kind of do it, upgrade your house without having to rip everything off.

[00:22:21] Caroline Blazovsky: And yeah, it make a big mess. That's nice.

[00:22:24] Jase DeBoer: Yeah. And, and some of those railing styles, the other, the other benefit is when there's, when they're aluminum, they can be preassembled. So if you place the post where you'd like, you can put the brackets in place, sometimes they come on the post. Sometimes they're separate that that picket preassembled panel can drop right into place.

[00:22:42] Jase DeBoer: And it just helps with labor too, as well. So, um, really making it easier for professionals and for DIYers to, to add a rail.

[00:22:51] Eric Goranson: One of the things that I think is great too is, and this is something that I've really embraced over the last decade as a designer, outdoor lighting is [00:23:00] so key when you're doing a deck.

[00:23:01] Eric Goranson: It is probably to me, half of the beauty, because if you're out there in the evening and you can get that well lit whether you've got stairs or wherever else, you can do so much to a space. By just doing that accent, lighting to one either make it safer or just beautify in the evening.

[00:23:19] Jase DeBoer: Yeah, absolutely. In, in fact, in, in many cases, Stairs require lighting for code compliance.

[00:23:28] Jase DeBoer: So whether you have a light on the side of your house shining on that stairway, or actually add those low voltage lighting, um, to the stair phases, um, that's, that's it's safety. And it also just adds a really nice aesthetic where you can use that deck far longer into the evening, um, and get more use out of it.

[00:23:45] Jase DeBoer: And, um, but yeah, lighting can definitely change. It can change the entire feel of the deck, uh, depending on the day. Really great addition. And

[00:23:55] Eric Goranson: they can be so clean too, cuz it used to be, you know, decade ago before LEDs [00:24:00] and some of that other stuff, it would be kind of clunky, big thick fixtures. Now you keep even going at those little spots that just go in there.

[00:24:07] Eric Goranson: Yeah. That look so beautiful. If you just want to have something super clean and contemporary, there's a lot of options.

[00:24:12] Jase DeBoer: Absolutely. No I do you. I would, I would definitely when someone's planning a deck, um, Lighting tends to not be the initial thought. And then after they're kind of further along, they're like, you know, I think maybe we should add deck, uh, the lighting.

[00:24:26] Jase DeBoer: Um, I would just give the recommendation to think about lighting and railing at the same time. Deckings always the primary, right. People are looking for the decking. What does it look like? And they're kind of holding those pieces and, um, Railing is maybe the next thought and then lighting's even further down, but it's a really good idea to come consider all of those pieces early on so that it plays into your budget.

[00:24:47] Jase DeBoer: It plays into the overall feel of what your designing I

[00:24:50] Caroline Blazovsky: was gonna bring up. When Eric talked about lighting, Eric, do you remember those big lights? We had these on our deck when I was a kid, they were actually like an Amber color and green and blue, and they would do these [00:25:00] weird things. They were like part, but they were all, you know, that was the original lighting back.

[00:25:04] Caroline Blazovsky: And there were these giant sort of, I don't know, I call 'em real eighties looking lights, but that was like hip. If you had lights back, then my parents were kind of hip. So they had this cool set.

[00:25:13] Eric Goranson: There you go. Yeah. It's it just changes everything outside. And you know, whether or not you're doing a, a front porch where you're doing it, uh, for safety coming in and outta the house in the, you know, in, when it's dark in the wintertime, when you've got much less light than you do in the summertime, it's just smart to do it that way.

[00:25:29] Eric Goranson: Yeah,

[00:25:29] Jase DeBoer: absolutely. Um,

[00:25:31] Eric Goranson: and one thing I saw the, on your website that I thought was really cool. Speaking of porches, you guys have a porch flooring. That's composite cuz how many older homes out there people are out there? Every three or four or five years repainting that front porch in their 1920s house that has gotten, you know, 32 layers of paint.

[00:25:51] Eric Goranson: They out there sand and wow, there's a composite

[00:25:55] Jase DeBoer: for. There is, yeah, it's actually made of the same mineral based composite [00:26:00] technology as that higher end voyage decking we talked about. So except it comes in a tongue and groove profile, which mirrors those traditional, uh, porch flooring, uh, homes that you see maybe out east.

[00:26:11] Jase DeBoer: Um, I used to live in a, in a, in a home out east. I had a homeowner's association. And so, um, the colors are very traditional. There's a solid gray color called kettle, and there's a more varied, um, hardwood looking color called chick. Both fall into many homeowner association, um, requirements for color to maintain like historical code or, or whatever that is.

[00:26:32] Jase DeBoer: Um, but just the durability to it installs like traditional, um, porch flooring with a 45 degree nailer. And, um, it's just incredibly durable and a great way to add, you know, a, a wood alternative, durable porch on the front side of the home. Um, yeah, it's and, and it that's actually on trend as well. I mean, if you look at new home construction right now, I think the last time I looked over over 40% bridging on half of homes [00:27:00] now are now considering, or having a porch added in the design of the new home, which.

[00:27:06] Jase DeBoer: For a long time that went away, uh, the front porch kind of disappeared. Um, and it was coming back in a big way. Uh, I

[00:27:12] Caroline Blazovsky: see that too, in the styles, like a lot of people are wanting front porches. I kind of have gravitated towards that too. Just wanting that, sitting out front and kind of looking at the road or wherever and seeing, you know, what's going on.

[00:27:23] Caroline Blazovsky: It's it's a nice feeling.

[00:27:25] Jase DeBoer: Yeah, I agree.

[00:27:27] Eric Goranson: That's cool. So chase, if you're a homeowner out there and you're trying to decide. You know, okay. I gotta do a DAC. I don't know what I'm gonna do. What for you is your guys' best process to start that you know, that research and development and design part of it, what do you recommend for working through your system to do that?

[00:27:45] Jase DeBoer: Sure. Uh, decorators.com. First of all, if it, if for those who are just listening, it's decorators with a K D E C K decorators doing@decorators.com. There's a wealth of information to get started. And I [00:28:00] think the easiest way is to go either to the website and click on, start your project, or go to decorators.com/get started.

[00:28:07] Jase DeBoer: It'll bring you the same place. Uh, and when you're there, there's a number of things to, yeah. I think you need to start by just being inspired and seeing what those options are. Um, and so you're, you're starting to underst. Uh, what design ideas you could potentially, uh, pursue, what color combinations, you know, make sense to pair with your siding or your, you know, uh, you, you're starting to get inspiration and understand what are the options.

[00:28:34] Jase DeBoer: And so we have a style guide catalog that you can have mailed to your home for free, or you can download the PDF and gives you all sorts of, you know, insight on the different decking and railing options and how they combine and what they might look like on your home. Um, and from there, there's, you know, there's a blog, there's a deck design tool, a deck designer where you can actually start to take those inspiration ideas and bring 'em to life in a more virtual space and add your measurements and really start to [00:29:00] say, this is, this is really what is starting to take shape.

[00:29:03] Jase DeBoer: Now your dream is starting to kind of get some form to it. Um, and I, I think another. A big decision. Is, are you going to do it yourself or are you going to hire a professional? And the reason I bring that up as really important, early on is because professionals are, are very busy. They're booked out for months.

[00:29:23] Jase DeBoer: So if you are, if you are planning to have your deck ready in the spring and you call somebody in January, Um, you might think you're early, but it's you you're gonna be on the books or I would say if, if somebody's ready to take you at that time, it might not be the contractor you wanna hope for who's

[00:29:41] Eric Goranson: just gonna say that.

[00:29:43] Eric Goranson: I was gonna say if you're sitting there even, I mean, I'll be honest. I know plenty of contractors that if you're in mid-August and you're like, okay, I wanna a deck for spring. You might be late springtime right now with some of these guys.

[00:29:54] Jase DeBoer: That's exactly it. And part of that is they're, they're booked out.

[00:29:58] Jase DeBoer: Uh, part of that is the demand [00:30:00] for building materials across the board in general, windows, shingles, siding decking, um, is been through the roof for years. And so, um, part of that is also, you know, the, the process of ordering the product and making sure you get what you need too. So, um, I'd say. That decision on whether you're gonna do it yourself or hire a professional and, and a professional, our decorators certified pros.

[00:30:21] Jase DeBoer: You can find those on the website too. We have, you know, over 700 professionals that are trained and certified through decorators that you can call. Uh, they can. They're they're trained in the product. They can help you with design ideas. They can help do some of that where, um, what's feasible. What's not what's code compliant in that, in that municipality, um, permit pulling.

[00:30:43] Jase DeBoer: There's a lot of things that go into this. So a professional can certainly help you.

[00:30:46] Caroline Blazovsky: You're making my life so much easier. I'm like so happy. cause you don't understand. My deck has been like, oh, I'm like, oh no, It's just overwhelming when you're really thinking about all the options you have and Eric's helped me narrow down like framing and [00:31:00] things like that.

[00:31:00] Caroline Blazovsky: But yeah, I think I'm gonna have to visit your website and definitely have you guys help me.

[00:31:05] Jase DeBoer: It's it's a great place for the, whether you want to inspire yourself and find photos and find design ideas, or if you wanna hire a contractor, um, and talk to a few there, that's certainly a great place. And I, I think the other, the other thing too is, so we're in August, you've had a chance now this year to probably go to some barbecues or parties at people's homes and you kind of get to see styles too.

[00:31:31] Jase DeBoer: Experience them. And so I think it's, it's important too, to kind of keep your eyes open throughout the year for what, what is the design idea you want to do? Um, and it can be as simple. You know, it used to be, you picked one color and that was your deck. And now some decks have up to three colors on them with, uh, per a perimeter board that is a accent color to the boards that are in the field.

[00:31:53] Jase DeBoer: Um, then the railing color compliments that. So it's like we started this conversation. It's not just a. A rectangle [00:32:00] off your home anymore. It's like, what, what are these three colors you want to kind of combine and create this like interior design outside. And so, um, really ordering samples of product and kind of fitting 'em together and seeing what colors work with your siding and what colors work with each other.

[00:32:14] Jase DeBoer: And it, it really does help to visualize that. And then when you get to that time of calling a contractor or doing yourself, you've really got this idea in your head to what you.

[00:32:24] Eric Goranson: Well, Jace, that's, that's such a key point right there, because that design of how maybe you want the, the boards to run one direction.

[00:32:32] Eric Goranson: Yes. That really goes back to where your framing's gonna be and how you frame that deck. Mm-hmm . So if you all of a sudden change the direction of your boards going, oh, I'm gonna run 'em this way instead. That can completely change how you do your framing on that. So now you've gotta go through and figure out, okay, now I've gotta re completely engineer the backside of that deck.

[00:32:54] Eric Goranson: That's underneath those deck boards. So coming up with that inspiration in your design first, and [00:33:00] then after you kind of think in your head, or even get it on paper, what it's gonna look like, then you can kind of figure out, okay. Yeah, this is where framing has to go. Yeah. And, uh, Otherwise, you're doing this a couple times on the design side, you have

[00:33:12] Jase DeBoer: to do it.

[00:33:13] Jase DeBoer: Yeah. The, the, the structure certainly is, is a key element and, and even more than the decking just. When you, when you look to build a deck, so think about going to a store. If you were to buy a kitchen right now, you walk into a store and they have a center with a counter and there's people that are consultants, and they're gonna walk you through.

[00:33:32] Jase DeBoer: How, how are you gonna use your kitchen? Are you gonna only eat in it? Are you gonna entertain in your kitchen? Are you right handed or are you lefthanded? Are you? Yep. And those are questions. Oddly enough, you have to start asking on your deck now, like, how are you gonna use this space? Are you gonna entertain?

[00:33:47] Jase DeBoer: Or is it just a place to read, you know, quietly? Uh, do you wanna have a space for shade because you have the sun facing a certain direction and that's gonna be bothersome at certain times. There's all these, [00:34:00] all these things about how you're gonna use. Are you gonna have running water? Are you gonna have like a, a, like a.

[00:34:05] Jase DeBoer: A bar or are you gonna have access to fire pit? Yeah, exactly. So it's not just the structure. It's also, how do you intend to use this space? Do you need power supply for an outdoor TV so you can watch the game or, um, all of those initial things start asking those questions as part of that inspiration process.

[00:34:23] Jase DeBoer: Because that's gonna play in exactly what you said, Eric, the, the Eric needs all the above. Yeah, exactly. Eric needs

[00:34:30] Eric Goranson: everything. I've got an eight by eight bar with a, you know, with a slab porcelain top at it in, in the, in the back online, just because, you know, I wanted to have that space to entertain because that's also gonna be the, you know, Three months, you know, actually probably six months outta the year, we can still entertain out there and be super comfortable.

[00:34:50] Eric Goranson: And then depending on the weather, we can extend it out from that.

[00:34:53] Jase DeBoer: Yeah. And then, and that's, I mean, it's a great, just the entertaining. The furniture, you know, do you have a table? You have [00:35:00] X amount of chairs and you have, you know, is that space enough to adequately fit that table? And those chairs that they pull the chairs out and you have a grill?

[00:35:08] Jase DeBoer: Um, a lot of times it's the, a deck is kind of undersized. For what you really wanna do. Um, and so just really take that into account. All these different facets are gonna play into the overall success and comfort of the deck you're designing.

[00:35:22] Caroline Blazovsky: And I was, um, telling Eric, we got into looking into hot tubs and swim spas and all of this craziness and the swim spas, like a huge thing.

[00:35:30] Caroline Blazovsky: And you have to build the deck around it, or you have to have it on a platform, same with the hot tub. So those are all things you have to take into consideration too. If you're going to do a deck, cuz what, if you're gonna have a heavy structure on top of. So you have to have extra support

[00:35:44] Jase DeBoer: for sure. That is, I'm glad you brought that up cuz hot tubs.

[00:35:48] Jase DeBoer: Um, they, they are, they're incredibly heavy and they're really great on, on, on decorators decking around that NBC decking. That's greater on moisture and traction, but you do need to have proper support under your hot [00:36:00] tub for sure. Cuz it's, it's definitely a significant. That's

[00:36:04] Eric Goranson: when you bring the engineer in to make sure that that's gonna hold it up because, uh, I can't tell you how many pictures I've seen on the internet of somebody that first off I go, how did you get that hot tub up there?

[00:36:16] Eric Goranson: Yeah. And second of all, that, that was a feat of its own that they had to go like Egyptian on it to get it up there. But then you could tell that they didn't build that thing for it. And now of course, the hot tub's sitting up there, the, the, you know, the, the ledgers come off the house, it's sitting at a 45 degree angle and it's like, how did somebody not get killed on this?

[00:36:35] Eric Goranson: It's you gotta use some common sense and, uh, let the engineer do their job to tell you, well, how you build it, how you do it. So you can do it once and not have to sweat it because. It's like parking an F-150 up on your deck. You gotta make sure you got that with, by the time you put

[00:36:50] Jase DeBoer: water in it.

[00:36:51] Jase DeBoer: Absolutely. Right. It's, it's hard to visit, you know, some, some parties or entertainment and you go to someone's deck and, um, yeah, you, [00:37:00] you see some of that structure and you're like, ah, I'm just gonna politely maybe. Avoid going on that deck, cuz it just just sit down, sometimes sit down on the's it's questionable.

[00:37:11] Jase DeBoer: Yeah. So it really does pay to get your structure. Right. And frankly, to hire a professional in the.

[00:37:21] Eric Goranson: Jason. I was working on a I'm a, I've got 30 years of interior design. I was doing the whole interior of this house. Um, about a half hour away from me. And I walked out on their back deck. She just moved into the house.

[00:37:32] Eric Goranson: I walked out into the back deck and this was because it was on a hill was probably. 18 to 20 feet to the ground level, to the bottom of the deck there, I walk out and it moved so much. I reached up and grabbed the gutter cuz I thought we were gonna go down. Yeah. And I'm like, uh, we're going back inside.

[00:37:53] Eric Goranson: Yeah, for sure. Yeah. No more. I don't like doing that. That's that in? If you were to put six people out on [00:38:00] that deck, um, You know, it was just not framed correctly. And, uh, that's one of the things that, that I always recommend, you know, this time of year as well for people out there. If you've got that older deck, you know, I know so many people, oh, I've had a deck that's it's 15 years old and it's, it's got a lot of life left into it.

[00:38:17] Eric Goranson: Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't, that's kind of the average lifespan of a wood deck. You gotta really pay attention cuz if they didn't flash it right. If they didn't build it right. You know, if they've got 16 penny nails holding that ledger up against the house, that's where accidents happen. And all of a sudden you're on the news.

[00:38:38] Jase DeBoer: Yes at, at all costs, we wanna avoid that the decks are meant to be enjoyed. Uh, they're meant to be relaxing and, and for friends and family entertainment and the, the safer they are, the the more we can do that. So for sure.

[00:38:54] Eric Goranson: Absolutely. Well, I wanted to talk a little bit, where do you see decking going forward here?

[00:38:58] Eric Goranson: Where do you see this [00:39:00] outdoor living space? You know, what, what do you see as the future out there? Because you guys have been doing a great job of, of providing a lot of the stuff and, and being some groundbreaking resources for people.

[00:39:10] Jase DeBoer: It's, it's always a great question. And that's, you know, that's, that's our big question all the time is where, you know, trying to look in the crystal ball and see where things are going to make sure.

[00:39:20] Jase DeBoer: We're innovating in the right spaces and solving problems and addressing trends. And, um, we hit on it a bit earlier, but I, I think it's only gonna continue that, um, this, this idea of a deck being just more than a deck, people are really investing in outdoor. It's now being called outdoor living spaces.

[00:39:39] Jase DeBoer: It's not even called a deck all the time. So I had this outdoor living space, which includes. Your deck, maybe your pool or hot tub, your, your outdoor kitchen, but also, um, very frequently stepping down to, you know, a paver patio with a fire pit and it's all interconnected, um, shade structures to kind of almost zone [00:40:00] out the deck.

[00:40:00] Jase DeBoer: So I, I think that's probably one of the bigger trends is there's there's a large deck off your, off your home. You're, there's almost like this creation of pseudo zones or rooms now within the deck where this is kind of the entertainment space. This is the layout in the sun space, and this is the, um, you know, they have different zones and you can design accordingly with the color.

[00:40:21] Jase DeBoer: So the, the perimeter borders, like I mentioned, you. Without having a railing across your deck, you can kind of subtly create those, those perimeter within your deck to say, Hey, this is kind of the, the reading zone, or this is the, the eating and friend entertaining zone. So I only see that expanding because.

[00:40:42] Jase DeBoer: That people are just staying in their homes longer. In fact, uh, I believe last time I looked at the average us homeowner was in their home for about seven years. It was by about 10 years ago. And now mm-hmm, , it's closer to 13 or 14 years, uh, that they're, they're not moving and they're staying in their home longer, which means they're [00:41:00] investing and not just making something so they can sell and move on, but they're investing in something that they're truly gonna use for a long time.

[00:41:09] Caroline Blazovsky: I guess I have a question too, Jay, so, and, and I'm going through this right now, designing a patio and then a deck and how these things incorporate, who, who does that? Cause what I'm finding is the paper person comes over and says, okay, we're gonna do the paver. And then you do the deck at this point. And the deck guy comes and says, oh no, I wanna do the deck, but it is this incorporated space.

[00:41:28] Caroline Blazovsky: And I need someone. Who's gonna look at it as a, as a whole project and not individual. So, what do you think the best way to go about doing that is because I'm having the issue. So I'm imagining lots of other people do too.

[00:41:39] Jase DeBoer: Yes. Um, I guess that would be trend number two. Um, mm-hmm, more and more certified.

[00:41:47] Jase DeBoer: Contractors are really starting to embrace doing more than just the deck and actually looking at that entire outdoor space they're already there. The homeowner wants to contact one person and kind of work through that [00:42:00] backyard. So the patio truly. Designed in like a seamless transition to the deck, not two different people doing that.

[00:42:07] Jase DeBoer: So there's certainly a place for hardscapers. There's certainly a place for deck builders, but more and more, I see hardscapers taking on the capability of building decks and vice versa. Mm-hmm um, is starting and it's only gonna increase because I think homeowners don't think of those as separate. They think of this space as one one.

[00:42:25] Jase DeBoer: And so, um, I guess my recommendation is there, there are many contractors that you can find that do. They might not be a decking contractor. It might be more of like an outdoor living contractor. And, um, see if you can find one of those, they certainly help or, um, When you're talking to your contractor, ask if they have contacts that they, that they work with regularly.

[00:42:49] Jase DeBoer: Right? So, um, a lot, a lot of professionals have great relationships with other professionals in their city. So, um, and they they'll, they'll pass kind of homeowner. [00:43:00] Opportunities to another saying, Hey, listen, I went to this house. I'm not really a patio guy, but you would be, you should check 'em out. They'd be you.

[00:43:05] Jase DeBoer: I gave them your number. And if those two have a good relationship, then they might work on a time schedule to kind of make that thing happen the right way. So maybe that as an interview question to your contractor, just ask, do you know a harder or do you do hardscapers so.

[00:43:21] Caroline Blazovsky: The footings. That's a good one.

[00:43:22] Caroline Blazovsky: Issue. Seem to be a lot of the issue, like what goes in first and who prepares the footings for your decking?

[00:43:29] Eric Goranson: yeah. Yeah. And you know, my, my advice to Caroline was that, okay, you know, design your deck out. So you know where those footings are, get the footings in at least. And if your, if your patio guy wants to come in and put the patio around those footings, and then, you know, you're building up from there and it does give the decking guy a.

[00:43:47] Eric Goranson: Clean solid place to work from versus, you know, sitting down there with sand or whatever else where it's just prepped up. And the last thing you wanna do is tear up a perfectly good patio, just. Put in a big footing that might be required for, you know, and who [00:44:00] knows what that footing is. I don't know what it is in New Jersey there, Carolina, where you are, but when you start to take into frost and frost, heve, mm-hmm and some of that stuff, you gotta be careful depending on where you're at with code.

[00:44:09] Jase DeBoer: Yeah. And you can ask your contractor as well. And first of all, air, I agree completely that. Footers should just be, be set where they need to be set and you can certainly build a patio around those. And then the decking can be, you know, added after the fact that helps. That helps the both contractors too.

[00:44:24] Jase DeBoer: That're trying to grow their business now in a more social media way. They're both gonna get a great picture of a deck and a patio as opposed to. A patio with no UNFI. They're, they're both gonna have unfinished photos unless you kind of take that process. So they're, they're interested in that too, but, um, something that is also becoming more common is, um, have you heard of heli peers before.

[00:44:47] Eric Goranson: Oh, yes, I, Caroline. And I just talked about that on the show a few weeks ago. And she's like, what is a helical beard? I was starting to give that description cuz I've used them many

[00:44:56] Jase DeBoer: times. They are. They're amazing. Um, if you don't [00:45:00] wanna dig a hole four feet down or whatever it is in your market to get below the frost line.

[00:45:04] Jase DeBoer: And then remove all that dirt off your, you know, yard mm-hmm there are some really great companies that, um, can help you with the placement of those footers, but they drive in the, he go pier, um, into a certain torque and then. The engineering plans can be approved quickly and you can build on that almost immediately instead of letting that concrete cure.

[00:45:23] Jase DeBoer: Um, and that's, that may even be an easier way for a patio builder to work around the footers, cuz those are just dropped in and they're very subtle. Um, but they allow builders to, to build year round too. So, um, that's why they're even more busy because you can drop helical and start building. In November, December, January, and yeah, you're ready to roll.

[00:45:43] Jase DeBoer: So

[00:45:43] Caroline Blazovsky: is there any downside to one or the other, like using a footer versus the Helo peel PR

[00:45:49] Eric Goranson: Helo PI doesn't move it. Won't move. It's all the way down in there. I mean, you can, you can Jack A. House off of that. So they built down.

[00:45:56] Jase DeBoer: Yeah. Yeah. But I mean, I think the only thing would be the [00:46:00] availability of the technician.

[00:46:00] Jase DeBoer: Who's gonna come do that. Yeah. And, or maybe there's some added cost to it, but I also would say the added cost may outweigh. The time and the cost of like digging every hole and removing that dirt, uh, a concrete pile that's four feet deep below the frost line is gonna be a really great option. It just, it, it takes more work.

[00:46:18] Jase DeBoer: So, um, It just, yeah, it just depends. But, um, helos are becoming far and far more, more popular. So I had

[00:46:26] Eric Goranson: to use those on a project here in Portland. It was a kind of a cliff house. You know, we've got some homes up on the, the west Hills here where they've built them into a, into the side of a canyon basically.

[00:46:36] Eric Goranson: And the front driveway is what touches and, and the driveway is, is hanging out, including the entire house. And so you get out there and. 50 feet, 60 feet from the back of the deck down to the, down to the canyon floor. So you're way up there. And we had a problem where the, the. Patio and their slab for their driveway had sunk because of rot.

[00:46:59] Eric Goranson: Yep. And [00:47:00] so I actually had to go in and build a, a base to lift from, to Jack it up from, we had actually had to put four helical piers and pour a pad on it, just to have a lifting place. Wow. To be able to get it up, back to level. So there're a great option. And, um, you know, well overengineered for a deck, but in bad soil conditions, bad weather, like you were saying, Jace, it is a perfect solution

[00:47:22] Jase DeBoer: for yeah.

[00:47:23] Jase DeBoer: And, and I guess on the topic of trends, another trend that would kind of oppose even what we just said is, um, or not opposed, but be another option would be, uh, more and more people. And, you know, so like at Caroline, you're more in like that new, New York, New Jersey area where you might have more people that have limited space and they might be considering more of a rooftop deck.

[00:47:45] Jase DeBoer: So like rooftop, patios, rooftop, decks, or decks in like unique spaces. Like, um, I have a concrete patio and traditional composite decking says I need to be like eight or nine inches off of that. That gets hard because my door is here and now, [00:48:00] now I can't do it. So, uh, things like mineral based composite allow you to do that because you can, you can use like our mineral based sleepers or one and a half inch by one and a half inch.

[00:48:10] Jase DeBoer: They go right over the top of a concrete patio. Um, and you can add decking into unique spaces now, instead of just off the back of a home, in a traditional sense, it can be, uh, a floating deck over a concrete patio. You can use mineral based as like a walkway or a boardwalk in the ground or ground level, uh, which you couldn't do in the past.

[00:48:30] Jase DeBoer: Um, combining that into waterfront structures like docks or even boat launches, where that decking couldn't do that before and now. It's it's meant to do that. Um, so that's interesting. So Jace, that's a, that's

[00:48:42] Eric Goranson: a huge point right there that I wanna make sure people understand that if you have that development, maybe you have that house that you bought that was in that plan development.

[00:48:50] Eric Goranson: And of course they build it the, the least expensive way they can, they put down the, the concrete patio off a step or two in the back. Yep. And now you're like, oh, I [00:49:00] wanna build a deck. So I either have to tear this all. Excavate this yeah. Pull the concrete out. No, no, no. You could put the sleepers down and build this right over the top of that solid surface.

[00:49:11] Eric Goranson: And you're saving yourself thousands of dollars because one, you're not having to rip the concrete up, haul it off, fix the landscaping from doing it and then frame up a deck. You can use that. Which is much more efficient, put the sleepers down and put a deck over the top of it, a brilliant way to do

[00:49:29] Jase DeBoer: it.

[00:49:29] Jase DeBoer: Yeah. Those sleepers are really unique. We introduced those soon after we introduced the mineral based composite, like our vault decking, our voyage decking, the core of that decking. We basically took that and turned it into a, a two by two. Um, that is water and ground contact warranted. So now your substructure and your decking, our ground contact and, and water and ground approved, but it also gives you a, a more minimal structure, uh, to fit underneath that, you know, on the concrete patio, but below your door [00:50:00] threshold.

[00:50:00] Jase DeBoer: Um, and so yeah, it gives you a ton of options and you can do that same thing on a rooftop. Those will, those sleepers can sit on that rubber membrane. Um, and you can have a floating deck on your rooftop. Uh, maybe over the top, if you're home as a design where like over the top of the garage, that's that's space that you can use.

[00:50:16] Jase DeBoer: And we're finding more and more that the versatility of decks are, are not just off the back of the home in a traditional sense anymore. They're. They're moving into like other spaces. So

[00:50:27] Caroline Blazovsky: Eric, what part of it is the sleeper? So I'm, I don't know what a sleeper is, so I'm not familiar with

[00:50:31] Eric Goranson: that. Okay. So think about, uh, if you you've got that concrete patio out there, you're gonna take basically a two by two and probably I didn't look at specs, but 12 to 16 inches apart, typically for a composite deck, and you're gonna put those down and that's gonna hold that composite deck up off of there.

[00:50:47] Eric Goranson: So she gets some airflow underneath there. It makes sense to have that airflow down there. So you don't get all the mocking stuff just from that, but that gives you that minimal distance to build it up. Get it's gonna look like a [00:51:00] deck when it's done use the hidden fasteners. It looks like you built the deck on it.

[00:51:04] Eric Goranson: You can't tell the sleepers are down there, cuz those sleepers just end up. Like the joist, that would be on a normal decking system, but it's just sitting on top of that concrete or finished, you know, uh, completed roof deck and it's a smart way to go. So it's just building it up slightly. So you get that right.

[00:51:21] Eric Goranson: Spacing and, and, uh, it keeps it outta the dirt.

[00:51:25] Jase DeBoer: Yeah.

[00:51:27] Eric Goranson: Easy easy. And then of course, you know, with all the fasting systems out there, that's one of the things that I love about it's something just satisfying to me, putting down a composite deck with the hidden fastener systems. And if you're putting down a composite deck, makes sure you spend the time on this.

[00:51:46] Eric Goranson: It makes a

[00:51:46] Jase DeBoer: huge difference. It does. Yeah. I mean, The number one thing you're doing when you're searching for a decking that you're gonna lay down is does it look nice? And you're probably looking at, I imagine Caroline looking at colors, you're looking at wood grain patterns and, [00:52:00] and then you're gonna drive some screws through it.

[00:52:02] Jase DeBoer: And, and, or you don't have to is, is the point. So decking, at least decorators decking comes in two profiles. There's there's a solid profile. Which you typically use on stairs or the perimeter boards. So you don't see that groove. Um, and then the field boards are the, the, the one you're gonna use most commonly you have a groove along the side of the board and that's to catch the flanges of those hidden fasteners that Eric's mentioning where you you're gonna drive a, you're gonna put that on the joist between the deck boards and the screw drive straight into the joist.

[00:52:33] Jase DeBoer: And it pulls that deck board down. So you don't see the fastener, except it's just between the deck boards at the joist. And, uh, it's a really, really clean way to install decking. And if you have to do a top down fastener, we also offer a pro plug system, which counter thinks to screw a bit. And then we make plugs out of the decking.

[00:52:54] Jase DeBoer: And you take the, the plug and kind of tap it in where a rubber mallet. And it looks [00:53:00] that that screw hole disappears. Um, but that's, that's a really on trend thing to do as well. When you're creating the space is. You know, try to avoid, you know, all these exposed fasteners and really give it a clean look.

[00:53:12] Jase DeBoer: What's

[00:53:12] Eric Goranson: the, the latest is the sexy way

[00:53:13] Caroline Blazovsky: to do it. Yeah. What's the latest trends now with drainage and things like that. Cause I know Eric's got some really cool tips about helping, you know, prevent drainage and, and things, um, from water coming back towards the structure. I mean, obviously you're looking at your pitch, but there's other things that I know Eric's familiar with.

[00:53:28] Caroline Blazovsky: What are you guys recommending for your decking?

[00:53:30] Jase DeBoer: There there's a number of options. It depends on what. Looking to do underneath that. If you're looking to add storage space, or if you're looking to add another, like a ceiling underneath your deck with a ceiling fan and entertainment space, it kind of has a D.

[00:53:45] Jase DeBoer: Um, you're kind of taking different steps there because the storage, you can, you know, store your kayaks and your things underneath your deck with some minimal water management. Um, if you're looking to actually do like another room under your deck, you really want to take the proper precautions [00:54:00] there because, um, water is going to find a way.

[00:54:03] Jase DeBoer: It's gonna try to find a way down. Um, and there's some really great products that can help you do that, whether that be, um, you know, a membrane system that kind of goes between the Jo, um, and you kind of have that flow to a gutter, um, or there are some products that are actually a combined ceiling and water system where you apply it underneath the, the underside of your.

[00:54:25] Jase DeBoer: It creates a, a nice ceiling look, but also helps that water, um, flow away in the way. And typically gutters are used in any of these cases.

[00:54:33] Caroline Blazovsky: Um, is that done after, I mean, when do you recommend doing that? So say you're in the process of building the deck and I don't know what the under space mm-hmm , you know, is gonna be, but I'm thinking maybe I might have it be a living space or maybe it's just gonna be storage.

[00:54:46] Caroline Blazovsky: Like where, where do you make those choices along the way? Or can you do it after the deck's

[00:54:50] Eric Goranson: install? Early

[00:54:52] Jase DeBoer: on . Yeah, I would, I would do it early on, cuz like to the thing, Eric keeps saying anything you can think of, it affects your framing and [00:55:00] you don't wanna, yeah. You don't wanna mess with your frame. If you get done, you frame your deck and you're like, I'd like to do water management.

[00:55:05] Jase DeBoer: Well, you might have had to think about that earlier in the framing process. Um, but. Uh, traditionally. Yeah, I think of it early. Before you lay your decking down, you kind of wanna understand, are you gonna put kind of a membrane between those Jos that kinda loops between, and it has that water flow to a gutter or you, you can do it after in some senses, but it just has to be the right product.

[00:55:28] Jase DeBoer: Um, some kind of a, like a, uh, A ceiling system. That's water management you had after the fact, but that's why inspiring yourself and looking at products ahead of time really helps you, you know, understand if you're talking to a professional and you said, I want water management. They're gonna, they're gonna change the way they think about framing your deck.

[00:55:48] Jase DeBoer: Right. Otherwise mm-hmm yeah, it's

[00:55:50] Caroline Blazovsky: a lot. It's doing a deck is so much now. Like I think it's, it's a daunting desk. Like it's been overwhelming for me because there's so many things that have to go into it. It's almost like doing a kitchen. It's [00:56:00] insane.

[00:56:00] Jase DeBoer: Yeah, you certainly can do the traditional 12 by 16 foot deck.

[00:56:04] Jase DeBoer: And that's a pretty good DIY rectangle. That's no fun Jace. I'll call your uncle and have it done in the weekend. You certainly can do that. But yeah, I think, you know, that trend we keep talking about, uh, decks are not, they're not simple. Anymore people are looking to truly embrace being outside. And, um, and safety's number one for sure.

[00:56:26] Jase DeBoer: Making sure your structure is safe. And then you have your structure planned out to have access to these things. You're looking for like utilities or water or lighting and, and just, and, and planning ahead. And, um, the more you plan, the more you won't have to deal with this later, and you can just really enjoy the space.

[00:56:44] Eric Goranson: No question while we're running outta time. Ja, is there anything that we missed talking

[00:56:49] Jase DeBoer: about today? You know, I think we covered a pretty wide spectrum here, but, um, yeah, I just, I just repeat that, uh, decorators offers some really great [00:57:00] products in these different categories, you know, decorators, wood, plastic, composite decking, uh, we have Trailhead Invista, decking, really, really beautiful products that are, um, you know, a traditional wood, plastic composite.

[00:57:11] Jase DeBoer: And you can move up to mineral based composite, whether our vault and voyage decking voyage comes in different widths even so you can get some really unique design ideas and. Our aluminum railing systems are fantastic from pickets to cable. Um, our process is to inspire you, give you the education, the resources to create that space and the, the best product quality and warranties to do that.

[00:57:32] Jase DeBoer: Chase

[00:57:33] Eric Goranson: DeBoer. Thanks for coming on today, man. Decorators, decorators.com and deck with a

[00:57:38] Jase DeBoer: K right. That's right. Decorators with a K. There

[00:57:42] Eric Goranson: we go. All right, man. Thanks again. We appreciate you coming on and taking the time today. You got

[00:57:46] Jase DeBoer: it. Thanks so much. I'm

[00:57:48] Eric Goranson: Eric G and I'm Caroline B. And you've been listening to around the house[00:58:00]