Speaker1:

We are looking forward our way, we're in Studio C in the 511 Studios.

Speaker1:

This is Brett. With me is Carol, as always.

Speaker2:

Hi, Brett. How's it going?

Speaker1:

Ok. Hey, we didn't love experiments.

Speaker1:

If you would, give us a review insight on what you think about the podcast, what you

Speaker1:

think about this episode coming up, or past episodes.

Speaker1:

The link to Google My business is in the show notes.

Speaker1:

So just click on that.

Speaker1:

You'll have to sign into your Google account, whether it's Gmail or whatever the case

Speaker1:

might be, could be your YouTube account, whatever.

Speaker1:

But sign in and give us a review, give us some insight in regards to what you think of

Speaker1:

the podcast, what you'd like us to cover with this podcast to anything.

Speaker1:

It would be great some some insights and reviews about what we're doing with the podcast.

Speaker1:

But we're in part number two of this great episode about diversity.

Speaker1:

And now we're going to be diving into a little bit more about the workplace in this one.

Speaker2:

Exactly. We've got wonderful guests with us today.

Speaker2:

And over the past year, our world has really turned around and we have many more

Speaker2:

questions about diversity and inclusion.

Speaker2:

And we wanted to make sure that the podcast did a good job of dealing with this.

Speaker2:

It's not an easy issue.

Speaker2:

So we're actually into the second podcast.

Speaker2:

We've had some great discussion.

Speaker2:

We're going to continue it today with our wonderful guests, Courtney Carrigan, who is the

Speaker2:

CEO and executive trainer of Raising the Bar Performance Group, and Tim Harman, senior

Speaker2:

consultant Workforce Innovation Center and my former OSU colleague.

Speaker2:

Thank you for joining us again today.

Speaker1:

Yeah, exactly. For having us.

Speaker1:

We encourage you to go back to part one, obviously, to listen.

Speaker1:

But I do want you to to be have the opportunity to talk a little bit about yourselves, a

Speaker1:

little bit of a background, because we might have a listeners that just catch part two

Speaker1:

about this because of what we're going to talk about today.

Speaker1:

So, Courtney, could you give a little background of who you are, where you come from, and

Speaker1:

then we'll let Tim jump in?

Speaker3:

Sure. Hi, everyone.

Speaker3:

I'm Courtney Kerrigan and I am a Ohio child.

Speaker3:

I was born in Toledo, Ohio.

Speaker3:

I love Toledo because we are a city that is we have grit, we are scrappy.

Speaker3:

And and from there, I ended up moving to Cincinnati, where I went to undergraduate and

Speaker3:

graduate school at the University of Cincinnati for the Bengals fan out there who say

Speaker3:

yes. And then in 2005, I took a job at the YWCA Columbus, where I've now lived in central

Speaker3:

Ohio for the last 15 years.

Speaker3:

And it's an amazing atmosphere.

Speaker3:

And so I am a Midwestern girl, born and raised with Southern charm, and I'm just happy to

Speaker3:

be here.

Speaker2:

And we're really glad you're in central Ohio now, too.

Speaker2:

As a Columbus native, we welcome everybody to central Ohio from the outskirts.

Speaker3:

Hey, it's a city of possibilities in central Ohio.

Speaker4:

Yeah, I think we all end up here at some point in our our our Ohio lives.

Speaker4:

Right. I came from Bucyrus, Ohio.

Speaker4:

And, you know, in our community, diversity was whether you planted corner, you planted

Speaker4:

beans that season.

Speaker4:

So also had the opportunity to live in Toledo, Ohio, while I did my undergraduate work.

Speaker4:

And then I came here to central Ohio and have spent my last two decades focused on human

Speaker4:

resources, diversity and inclusion and a lot of work in recruiting and talent attraction.

Speaker4:

So I'm glad to be here.

Speaker2:

Thank you very much, Jacqui.

Speaker1:

Well, we looked at the historical issues of diversity and inclusion in our past episode.

Speaker1:

Part one. Now we want to dive into.

Speaker1:

The workplace, and it seems that we need to assess where we are right now regarding the

Speaker1:

workplace and the opportunities created for everyone.

Speaker1:

Can we dive a little bit deeper into that, Tim?

Speaker4:

Absolutely. And we need to start with understanding.

Speaker4:

Workplace has shifted significantly over the last several decades.

Speaker4:

And so when we began talking about words like diversity and inclusion, often the context

Speaker4:

was around affirmative action or government mandates that might have come through.

Speaker4:

That said, well, diversity means we have to have certain numbers and certain targets that

Speaker4:

show up in our workplace.

Speaker4:

But today, diversity in the workplace means that we're being inclusive of everyone to

Speaker4:

show up as they are.

Speaker4:

We're not forcing them to fit into a construct or a false pretense that says, well, we

Speaker4:

need X, many male and X many female or X many of whatever their race or ethnicity might

Speaker4:

be labeled against them.

Speaker4:

And so today in our work environment, it's not that, oh, well, you hit 60.

Speaker4:

We better start getting that retirement cake ready for you because, you know, you've only

Speaker4:

got a few more years, Boomer.

Speaker1:

You're out the door.

Speaker4:

That's right.

Speaker2:

Surprise. We're like bad pennies.

Speaker2:

We keep showing

Speaker3:

Up.

Speaker4:

But and that's you know, it's funny, but it's a beauty like we used to think of our

Speaker4:

parents. Well, sure, they needed to retire at 60 or 65.

Speaker4:

And now we say, well, my goodness, I'm going to live to be 80, 90, 100 years old.

Speaker4:

We've had so many advancements in health care and medical practices and, you know, we

Speaker4:

didn't wear seatbelts as a kid and now we all do.

Speaker4:

You know, that was the only way I could avoid my mom reaching behind the seat and

Speaker4:

smacking me was because I didn't have a seatbelt on.

Speaker4:

But they didn't

Speaker2:

Even exist

Speaker1:

In the back seat.

Speaker4:

Yeah, but now we do.

Speaker4:

And it's to our betterment and it's to our betterment that we as a as a community, we

Speaker4:

figure out how do we keep the experience and knowledge that mature workers have in our

Speaker4:

work environment, but also provide them the flexibility and agility that younger

Speaker4:

generations have already demanded.

Speaker4:

They've said, hey, I want to come and go from work.

Speaker4:

I want to work from home, regardless of whether there's a pandemic happening or not.

Speaker4:

And we need to find that balance in the workplace so that we have those generations all

Speaker4:

with equal access and working together.

Speaker3:

I am in love with the current workforce because it is intergenerational.

Speaker3:

I think we have between four and five generations at any given moment in a workforce.

Speaker3:

So it's pretty cool to be able to go into an environment and to have so much diversity of

Speaker3:

thought, if you will. So when I think about what diversity and inclusion looks like in

Speaker3:

the workplace, it isn't so much about diversity.

Speaker3:

We get that. We know that diversity is a fact.

Speaker3:

We are represent layers and levels of diversity, dimensions of diversity.

Speaker3:

But now it's how do we make sure that in a 21st century, we all can thrive in this

Speaker3:

workplace. And so we have some great resources out there that talks about how do we

Speaker3:

create work environments of inclusive leadership and of belonging.

Speaker3:

And so that's where my focus, where my work is, where of small boutique firm that focuses

Speaker3:

on capacity building.

Speaker3:

But we're focusing on capacity building in terms of how do we create work with the

Speaker3:

workforce to create cultures and to create a climate where, despite who you are, despite

Speaker3:

your background, despite your age, you can come in and you are valuable and you are a

Speaker3:

resource and you can thrive in that setting.

Speaker4:

Hmm. I think Cortini touches on a great word, their culture.

Speaker4:

Right. If we go back 30 or 40 years ago and you walked up to somebody at Nationwide

Speaker4:

Insurance and you say, what's your culture?

Speaker4:

They would say, well, we sell insurance.

Speaker4:

Oh, no, that's not it.

Speaker4:

Culture is the fabric of your people.

Speaker4:

Culture is what your leadership says.

Speaker4:

This is our mission, our vision.

Speaker4:

And we're going to resource you around that.

Speaker4:

We're going to show up in our internal workspaces, but we're also going to show up in the

Speaker4:

community in alignment with what we are as a culture.

Speaker4:

And now with the great work of people like Courtney and others, we actually can address

Speaker4:

how we can build a culture that's inclusive, that is representative of not just one

Speaker4:

leader in the organization, but representative of the entire organization and how they

Speaker4:

want to be positioned in the community and get credit for the good work that they are

Speaker4:

doing in that community.

Speaker4:

And where there's gaps, we can address those gaps with intentional design.

Speaker2:

Right. I, I love that notion of and we've been talking about that the insight that our

Speaker2:

young people have.

Speaker2:

So one of my young cousins is graduating from Toledo this semester, going to work for a

Speaker2:

company in Madison, Wisconsin.

Speaker2:

And so for me, my first question is, oh, my God, there's so much snow.

Speaker2:

Why are you going that far north from him?

Speaker2:

It was right up.

Speaker2:

Right. And Carol, I love the culture at the company was inclusive.

Speaker2:

And and so they are learning.

Speaker2:

They're learning. So now let's go back to that idea that we had before.

Speaker2:

In the first podcast is 40 years ago.

Speaker2:

I thought we were on the right track and we weren't.

Speaker2:

How what do you see these young people doing in terms of these future steps?

Speaker2:

How can we really need that promise of diversity and inclusion?

Speaker2:

What are what should they be expecting?

Speaker3:

Yeah. So Peter Drucker is a strategist.

Speaker3:

He's a famous strategist.

Speaker3:

And he talks about he has a quote that says, Culture eats strategy for breakfast.

Speaker3:

This is not a millennial who said this, but he has a very strong point is that we now

Speaker3:

have generations to generations that's coming into the workforce.

Speaker3:

And like your nephew, they're saying, I want the environment to where I can be happy to

Speaker3:

where I want to go to work every day, which is very different from the stereotype of baby

Speaker3:

boomers and traditionalists that just went to work and maybe clocked in and out.

Speaker3:

I think of the Flintstones when you saw Fred putting that kid in and blacking out.

Speaker3:

Right now,

Speaker2:

We old folks, we were doing

Speaker3:

I mean, we all like that's the stereotype around the older generation.

Speaker2:

But the issue then our our our narrow look at the workplace is how much did we make and

Speaker2:

how much vacation did we get?

Speaker2:

Because I had to sleep.

Speaker3:

I just need to make money to take care of my family and I need benefits.

Speaker3:

And now you have younger generations coming in and saying, no, I need a place where I can

Speaker3:

actually thrive.

Speaker3:

I need a place where I actually feel good about coming to work and doing great work.

Speaker3:

And so that's making companies have to focus on culture, that's making companies have to

Speaker3:

focus on being inclusive environments and being in environments where people belong,

Speaker3:

where people can actually show up and be who they are.

Speaker3:

It feels it feels odd.

Speaker3:

It feels weird. But that is the work of the future for DNI.

Speaker3:

That is the work. And in terms of creating those spaces that are inclusive and where

Speaker3:

people belong, we actually are then going to be creating these equitable space.

Speaker3:

We actually are then going to be creating these equitable spaces that help people that

Speaker3:

that that become a space where we're making sure we pay people their value and not making

Speaker3:

sure that we pay them differently.

Speaker3:

We're made. Ensure that all people have benefits, that all people are able to take off,

Speaker3:

that you no longer have to be sick and still have to go to work.

Speaker3:

So having the younger generations say, I don't want to work for a place that isn't like

Speaker3:

this, or in the case of your nephew, I want to work for a place because it was like this,

Speaker3:

that's going to change the way we do work and that's also going to change companies

Speaker3:

customer base, because we're going to support companies that are actually taking care of

Speaker3:

their people because then we're going to trust them to take care of us.

Speaker4:

Courtney makes a great point throughout what she just shared.

Speaker4:

And I think we recognize in the workforce there's been a huge shift in the dynamic.

Speaker4:

When we go back to the 60s and 70s and 80s, it was an employer driven market.

Speaker4:

And you were fortunate to get a job.

Speaker4:

You were lucky to be able to stay with the company that was going to keep you for 10 or

Speaker4:

20 or 30 years.

Speaker4:

You're right. And so we many people, whether it's boomers, traditionalist Gen Xers, grew

Speaker4:

up in a culture that said, well, you know, go where the job is.

Speaker4:

And even if it doesn't quite fit, you need to conform because you're fortunate to be

Speaker4:

employed. And we went through those economic upturns and downturns of the 70s, 80s and

Speaker4:

90s, and a lot of people stayed in jobs that they weren't happy with or didn't like, but

Speaker4:

they needed the benefits or it was good pay or it was a convenient commute or it was

Speaker4:

whatever it needed to be for them at that time because they didn't feel they had a choice

Speaker4:

to opt out and opt in to a career or an organization that culturally met what they

Speaker4:

wanted. And now as we're into the 2010s and 2020, that dynamic has completely flipped and

Speaker4:

it's now an employee driven market.

Speaker4:

And so employees, whether they are 20 years old or they are 66 years old, can have choices

Speaker4:

of where they want to work and they have opportunities that weren't there.

Speaker4:

And the access to wealth faster is much greater.

Speaker4:

My first job, I made two dollars and fifteen cents an hour.

Speaker4:

Yes. And there was nothing illegal about that.

Speaker4:

That was what I got paid and I was OK with it.

Speaker4:

And I worked hard and I showed up just like I was supposed to and I enjoyed that aspect.

Speaker4:

But today you can't get me to walk across the street for two dollars and fifteen cents,

Speaker4:

let alone do, you know, an eight hour shift.

Speaker4:

And so that that change in the dynamic of the workforce is a big one and 20 and 30 and

Speaker4:

even some 40 year olds understand, well, I can pick where I want to work.

Speaker4:

I can pick Madison, Wisconsin, because I like the community.

Speaker4:

And even if I don't like the job I took there, I'll get a different one in whatever

Speaker4:

community I want to be a part of.

Speaker4:

A lot of people today are picking their job because their friends work there, because

Speaker4:

they like the culture, because it is a shorter commute

Speaker2:

And two with work at home, they could live anywhere and work anywhere.

Speaker2:

Yes. So, you know, when this really that that notion of the changes in the workforce, it

Speaker2:

really is the same as your discussion earlier about changes in technology and how it took

Speaker2:

decades to go from horse drawn carriages to cars and technology moved ahead.

Speaker2:

Really, the workplace didn't change that much except when technology was changing.

Speaker2:

So the change of of the Ford and the

Speaker4:

Assembly

Speaker2:

Line, the assembly line, the assembly

Speaker4:

Line, mass production.

Speaker2:

Exactly. And then larger pieces of equipment in factories and those kinds of things.

Speaker2:

That's what was changing.

Speaker2:

And now our workforce is much more, much less driven by large machinery and much more by

Speaker2:

small technology, not smaller in size, but smaller in an space that it uses.

Speaker4:

Absolutely. And the very notion you touch on.

Speaker4:

There's a wonderful author, Heather McGowan, who wrote a book, Future of Work.

Speaker4:

She has many other publications out there and write, what Heather talks about is the

Speaker4:

dynamic acceleration over the last 15 years in the work environment and how that

Speaker4:

technology has impacted what we value.

Speaker4:

We no longer valued the stored knowledge of a Ph.D.

Speaker4:

who can sit in the room and has read, you know, volumes of books.

Speaker4:

We valued the mechanic who can fix the noise in our car immediately in real time, and

Speaker4:

then be able to learn how to fix whatever I need fixed next week.

Speaker4:

That changed. And it's so we now value information in a very different way.

Speaker4:

It's not stored knowledge.

Speaker4:

It's applicable now.

Speaker4:

And we're OK with that.

Speaker4:

It's a change, but we're OK with that, right?

Speaker4:

When you think today as you listen to this, well, what are we going to have for our next

Speaker4:

meal? Was it going to be lunch or dinner?

Speaker4:

If I want to make this amazing chicken cacciatore?

Speaker4:

I don't go to my grandmother's Betty Crocker cookbook that's under the shelf.

Speaker4:

I actually just get my phone out and I type in and I get 30 different options and one of

Speaker4:

them takes five minutes to make and one takes 50 minutes.

Speaker4:

And I opt for the five minute option because I'm just not patient enough to invest 50

Speaker4:

minutes. And candidly, it's good enough.

Speaker4:

It might not be the best chicken cacciatore like my grandmother made, but it's good

Speaker4:

enough and we're happy and we move forward with that knowledge, right?

Speaker1:

Yeah. You know, we're talking about these changes in the workplace.

Speaker1:

And you mentioned that it's it truly is employee driven versus employer driven.

Speaker1:

And those opportunities for employees are now we're seeing that employers are recognizing

Speaker1:

that if they don't offer the right work environment, depending on the category of of

Speaker1:

person, what they're doing in such, you know, the the independent contractors, the I

Speaker1:

mean, it's just exploding and it kind of goes back to that, you know, Internet access

Speaker1:

that you can do this, you can start your own business like, OK, if you don't offer the

Speaker1:

right situation, you're going to lose that person.

Speaker1:

They're going to go off and do their own thing.

Speaker1:

I mean, I'm a prime example.

Speaker1:

At 50, I decide I'm leaving an industry radio that I've been in all my life and go out

Speaker1:

and do

Speaker4:

Into an industry that didn't exist when you began their career.

Speaker4:

It's the evolution, right?

Speaker4:

You're really in the communications industry and you've evolved as we've learned how to

Speaker4:

communicate differently.

Speaker4:

Right. And that's the reality of today's employee.

Speaker4:

Right. Is it the job you take when you start?

Speaker4:

Likely? I would even bet 100 percent isn't going to be the job you have at the end, even

Speaker4:

if you're a doctor or an attorney, because you're going to be doing that job with a

Speaker4:

different interface of technology and how you touch your customer or or whoever you're

Speaker4:

working with is going to evolve.

Speaker4:

And those who are going to prosper are going to be those who evolve with that so that

Speaker4:

they can be relevant to their audience.

Speaker2:

That's that's key point.

Speaker2:

Right.

Speaker1:

So, I mean, I guess it comes to this question, what do job seekers need to do to find

Speaker1:

success then? I mean, it's an ever moving target.

Speaker1:

It's evolving fast.

Speaker1:

What do you think? What are some guidelines?

Speaker1:

I guess some suggestions?

Speaker4:

Well, as I said, you know, some of your audience may say, well, you just said it's an

Speaker4:

employee driven market, but I can't find the job I want or nobody's calling me back.

Speaker4:

True. And we have to be conscious of that.

Speaker4:

We do have to recognize there's still systems with the technology evolving.

Speaker4:

We now you can't get your resume looked at by an actual person.

Speaker4:

You upload it and then it gets screened in, are screened out based on some automated, you

Speaker4:

know, bot that says, well, you have enough keywords in it, so it's not a match.

Speaker4:

And so I think it's important for job seekers to own a couple of steps in this.

Speaker4:

And one of the first steps is making sure that they have expectations that are realistic.

Speaker4:

What is it that I've, you know, garnered through my career, whether it's expertise or a

Speaker4:

wide variety of experiences and say, well, how can I apply that in today's market?

Speaker4:

You know, is it best for me because I'm now collecting Medicare or a different insurance

Speaker4:

setup? Is it best for me to present myself as a part time employee or a contractor?

Speaker4:

Because, again, there are more of those options and pathways available?

Speaker4:

Or do I need the security, if you will, of a full time position with full time benefits?

Speaker4:

And what's best for my current family situation?

Speaker4:

We spoke about that in our previous episode about when we go to vote, we vote about our

Speaker4:

current situation.

Speaker4:

And I think that's what we need to do.

Speaker4:

We don't need to have that aspirational piece when we're looking at a job.

Speaker4:

We certainly aren't looking at where am I going to be in thirty years?

Speaker4:

It's where am I going to be at the end of this year?

Speaker4:

And it may be thirty days, not thirty years.

Speaker4:

And so we need to have those expectations, the realistic of what our skill set is, how it

Speaker4:

matches up into what's available.

Speaker4:

We also need to look at what our salary expectations are.

Speaker4:

Right. I mentioned a few minutes ago I made very little in my first job, but it's not my

Speaker4:

current or next employer's responsibility to pay me for my years of experience, because

Speaker4:

the truth is, I might be able to go get a twenty something to be able to do that job, not

Speaker4:

with the same maturity you would not with the same expertise you would, but certainly for

Speaker4:

a lot less money.

Speaker2:

Right. You know that we saw that in the recession in the early 2000s where that in

Speaker2:

Columbus, it was the middle management group that was hit and a lot of clients came in to

Speaker2:

see me and said, I made thirty dollars an hour.

Speaker2:

I'm not working for less than thirty dollars.

Speaker2:

And our you know, this is what I need and the notion of what the job was worth just it

Speaker2:

just didn't hit them because they were so used to that going on the being on a on a

Speaker2:

salary level that had steps up and they just kept moving those steps up and they didn't

Speaker2:

see they saw it as starting over.

Speaker2:

And that was a negative for them.

Speaker2:

And we really had to re-educate older adults to say, no, this is what the job pays for

Speaker2:

that employer. That's what their budget holds.

Speaker2:

Yeah, it's not a reflection of you.

Speaker4:

Absolutely. It's a very fluid market.

Speaker4:

Right. I mean, we've seen in, you know, early 2000 we would join these great big Fortune

Speaker4:

500 companies and they would completely go away within 10 years.

Speaker4:

Mm hmm. And so that notion of loyalty and forever ness, it's gone.

Speaker4:

And that doesn't feel good.

Speaker4:

But it's OK.

Speaker4:

It's OK for you to say I'm only going to use this employer for a year or for the discount

Speaker4:

that I get at the home goods store because I want to redo my garden area.

Speaker4:

That's OK to use your skill set to help yourself get paid and then use those other

Speaker4:

benefits of the environment to help you.

Speaker4:

Because the employee or excuse me, the employer is saying, well, I'm only going to use

Speaker4:

this person until it doesn't benefit me any further because we're going to continue to

Speaker4:

change what we're producing.

Speaker4:

And I think that's an important part.

Speaker4:

We look at how the pandemic of 2020.

Speaker4:

Right grocery stores moved from being high touch customer service to being a warehouse

Speaker4:

that somebody else went in.

Speaker4:

Yeah, somebody else would go in.

Speaker4:

And based on what you had ordered off line, fill your car, bring it out to your car and

Speaker4:

loaded into your car.

Speaker4:

So it really became a distribution center, not an area where we walked through and we

Speaker4:

talked to the butcher personally or we talked to somebody along the way.

Speaker4:

And that evolution of what we thought the grocery store was just a few months prior to

Speaker4:

that, to what it is today, it's that convenience of it is going to sustain.

Speaker4:

Yet we still need to make sure we recognize truly these small businesses that are your

Speaker4:

local delicatessen, that are your local butcher, that need support and the value that

Speaker4:

direct touch.

Speaker2:

Tim, I wanted to step back for just a second.

Speaker2:

When we're looking at what job seekers need to do in terms of making sure that they are

Speaker2:

going to be successful in the workplace, regardless of who that job seeker is.

Speaker2:

Let's talk about those transferable skills.

Speaker2:

You know, how do you go back and translate your experiences, your knowledge and and your

Speaker2:

own internal culture to make you a good job seeker?

Speaker4:

Yeah, well, right.

Speaker4:

It starts with taking a good self inventory and understanding that the resume that you've

Speaker4:

kept prepared for many years and just kind of updated and changed the date, you may need

Speaker4:

to take a whole nother rewrite on it.

Speaker4:

And what degree bring your daughter, your grandson into the conversation so that you get

Speaker4:

relevant language of how it's used in business work or business style today, because

Speaker4:

sometimes we might only give ourselves credit for doing administrative work when the

Speaker4:

reality is we were coordinating the entire executive team.

Speaker4:

Right. And we were doing so much more than what that label that, you know, came across on

Speaker4:

our right, our our resume said.

Speaker4:

So I think there's a lot of opportunity for individuals to take a look at how they're

Speaker4:

giving themselves credit for the work that they've accomplished and put it in current and

Speaker4:

relevant language.

Speaker4:

And then it's also, you know, we use this term a lot networking, but it's reaching out to

Speaker4:

your network or establishing a larger network so that you understand what's available and

Speaker4:

how that personal referral works.

Speaker4:

And it's, you know, agencies like where you came from, Carol, in, you know, those

Speaker4:

agencies have a ton of resources that allow you to show up to the employer in a preferred

Speaker4:

manner. And this is real in our virtual environment or it's in, you know, still the

Speaker4:

physical let's get together and network introvert.

Speaker3:

So I'm going to speak practically as someone who could never go outside and be totally

Speaker3:

happy with that life, which has been totally happy with covid.

Speaker3:

So let's speak practically for the people who are a little shy about the current

Speaker3:

workforce because it is so different than what you were used to or because you had a bad

Speaker3:

experience in your last one, there are some really practical resources are steps out

Speaker3:

there you can take. So if you're looking at.

Speaker3:

Updating your resume and getting kind of acclimated to some of the new language, go to

Speaker3:

LinkedIn. A lot of people don't like LinkedIn, but I find that introverts like me, we do

Speaker3:

like LinkedIn because it is a hub of resources.

Speaker3:

And you can connect to companies that way and companies will see your profile and see you

Speaker3:

and then they will connect to you.

Speaker3:

I showed I show up in 120 searches a week and I don't do anything right.

Speaker3:

So LinkedIn is a really good place to go and explore and get lost.

Speaker3:

Not only is it a place to go and explore, but it in terms of jobs, but it gives you

Speaker3:

updated articles.

Speaker3:

There's this wonderful woman and her I think her name is Carol Pinchot and she does a

Speaker3:

workplace blog every week.

Speaker3:

That is a place that we should be going.

Speaker3:

That is a place that we should be listening to.

Speaker3:

Also YouTube.

Speaker3:

I know people don't want to hear it, but YouTube is a phenomenal place to go because you

Speaker3:

can hear seven minute videos of people talking.

Speaker3:

And not only are you getting some of that new lingo, some of that new language, but

Speaker3:

you're also learning something.

Speaker3:

So we're switching to automated.

Speaker3:

We're going to quick books.

Speaker3:

My mom got on quick books and started telling me about quick books, and she said, I just

Speaker3:

watched some YouTube videos.

Speaker3:

And this is a 60 year old, very vibrant woman who could have another career, I hope, as

Speaker3:

my bookkeeper. But she is like, I know cookbook's.

Speaker3:

Oh, you do what that helped me to set up because I trained us.

Speaker3:

But it's amazing that

Speaker2:

She and I taught myself

Speaker3:

And that's what she's doing.

Speaker3:

She watched three videos.

Speaker3:

Right. You do that. But guess what she said.

Speaker3:

I don't want to not I don't want to not know it if we're meeting for somebody to train

Speaker3:

us. So in her mind, she wanted to kind of know it first.

Speaker3:

Right. And then.

Speaker3:

Right.

Speaker2:

So then you can ask the right questions so she could

Speaker3:

Ask the right questions, I guess.

Speaker3:

Who helped her do that? YouTube.

Speaker3:

Yeah. There's also Simon Sinek.

Speaker3:

He wrote the book. Why?

Speaker3:

But if you go to Simon Cynics website, the beauty of him is that every week he puts out

Speaker3:

these webinars, these classes, if you will.

Speaker3:

And they're just talking about everything, but it's always geared toward the workplace,

Speaker3:

the right kind of culture, making sure you show up as who you are and be confident in

Speaker3:

that and just listening to some of that if it helps anybody.

Speaker3:

All right. So those are some really practical resources to just go explore without

Speaker3:

without being under the microscope of anybody looking at you saying, OK, Boomer, you're

Speaker3:

not hip to that. No.

Speaker3:

Yeah. You can get lost in some stuff.

Speaker2:

And for our listeners, we're going to put all of this into our resources page for the on

Speaker2:

the show notes for for this podcast.

Speaker2:

But I do have to give kind of a shout out to the central Ohio non-profits.

Speaker2:

Yes, we have phenomenal resources in central Ohio.

Speaker2:

And if you're listening from outside of central Ohio, I'm sorry, but chances are pretty

Speaker2:

good you're going to find some resources in your community to they really are a lot of

Speaker2:

organizations and it's their expertise that's going to make you a better job candidate.

Speaker2:

So we'll add those to our resource sheet and and don't hesitate to contact them.

Speaker2:

And for the most part, it's their free services.

Speaker2:

So you're really not going to lose in this process.

Speaker4:

So, absolutely.

Speaker4:

I mean, the one thing that Columbus does really well is that they are intentional in

Speaker4:

creating those free environments and working collectively.

Speaker4:

Right. So whether it's goodwill, United Way Jewish Family Services, a center for refugee

Speaker4:

and immigrant services, they they create those wraparound services so that our community

Speaker4:

can be better supported.

Speaker4:

We still have opportunity to really and I don't like this word, but scale those services

Speaker4:

to meet the demand. So we have it, but we still need to work on making it accessible.

Speaker2:

Yeah, you both talked and I talk a lot about Otterbein.

Speaker2:

You both talk about your alma maters.

Speaker2:

For those of you who are job seeking out there and have especially if you're having some

Speaker2:

difficulty, check back if you had the opportunity to go to to college, check back with

Speaker2:

your career services offices, because many of them are helping alumni, especially in the

Speaker2:

environment that we're going through now with the workplace with a pandemic.

Speaker2:

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker4:

That's it. Year two year and four year colleges.

Speaker4:

And also, if you took a vocational school class at one of your career tecs in the

Speaker4:

community, they have great career service resources as well.

Speaker4:

And candidly, employers are knocking on their doors saying we need more welders, we need

Speaker4:

more pipefitters, we need more electricians, we need more Astana's.

Speaker4:

And so they have that network into the job market.

Speaker2:

Exactly. Exactly.

Speaker2:

And that and that's so that goes back to that notion of networking is that and I'm going

Speaker2:

to be walking right into our next question that Bret's going to ask you for for me when

Speaker2:

I'm talking about networking, it really is part of a learning experience.

Speaker2:

You know, networking is not just tapping everybody.

Speaker2:

You know, it's getting information for everybody that you talk to.

Speaker2:

And so that's part of this, getting yourself prepared to be a good jobs.

Speaker1:

And, you know, and we touched upon the lifelong learning piece of this and just talked

Speaker1:

about, you know, going back to school or education and said, but, you know, and but we

Speaker1:

did talk a little bit about there's free stuff online, too.

Speaker1:

There are lots of opportunities.

Speaker1:

Let's kind of encapsulate a little bit about here are some things keep in mind, that are

Speaker1:

out there to do.

Speaker4:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I introduced a new term to you, Mark, right.

Speaker4:

MOOC a massive online open course.

Speaker4:

Well, these are verified certified courses that come from the likes of Stanford, Ohio

Speaker4:

State or another, you know, entity that you can go online and register for and take as

Speaker4:

many or as few as you like.

Speaker4:

Some have cost, some don't.

Speaker4:

If you want to get the formal degree or certification that comes along with it, there's

Speaker4:

often a cost. But in many cases you can sit in and audit that course virtually from

Speaker4:

wherever you are.

Speaker4:

Right. So that approach of, you know, the beauty of technology is now information is so

Speaker4:

readily available that we have access to it.

Speaker4:

We don't have to show up on the physical campus to become a learner.

Speaker4:

Right now, the challenges for some of us, we learn better when we do show up on the

Speaker4:

campus or in the building and sit with the teacher so that we can directly interact with

Speaker4:

that instructor. And those opportunities exist as well, especially for our more mature

Speaker4:

workers. There are lots of boot camps.

Speaker4:

There are lots of free conferences that you can attend and participate in and you can

Speaker4:

even look at your formal education institutes.

Speaker4:

We have over 40 colleges and universities in the Columbus market that you can sit in and

Speaker4:

ordered a course for free.

Speaker4:

Mm hmm.

Speaker2:

Right. Yes.

Speaker2:

Program. He is phenomenal at Ohio State as those programs exist at Columbus State,

Speaker2:

Otterbein and I think capital also

Speaker3:

And one of the things that I think we now have learned as a society because of it is that

Speaker3:

Zoome, it's great to go sit in person, but you can attend a virtual classroom anywhere in

Speaker3:

the world through Zoome, through WebEx, through all of this, all of these now online

Speaker3:

platforms. And it's unbelievable.

Speaker3:

Like the Library of Congress, the Smithsonian, they have free webinars, right, that you

Speaker3:

don't have to pay for, that you don't have to.

Speaker3:

All you do is go sign up and you get the link so you can have education from anywhere in

Speaker3:

our country but anywhere in the world now.

Speaker3:

So I think I take advantage of that.

Speaker3:

I don't think there's an age on taking advantage of the fact that we are getting really,

Speaker3:

really, really great information out there today.

Speaker3:

Right, from researchers, from people who just want to do it because they're also enjoying

Speaker3:

it. We should be taking full advantage of that.

Speaker3:

Another thing that I would say start to look into is that I know we know from research

Speaker3:

that black women are leaving the workforce to start their own businesses.

Speaker3:

I'm one of those that fall in that statistic.

Speaker3:

There are so many opportunities now to make money based off of what you just like and

Speaker3:

what you just what your passion is.

Speaker3:

So don't think as much as we know, the diversity of age in the workforce is actually

Speaker3:

given us a strategic and innovative strategic win.

Speaker3:

If you if you choose not to go back to the workplace, you can still that whole side

Speaker3:

hustle that side gig, whatever language they're calling it, is now money making

Speaker3:

opportunities for everybody, despite what generation you fall in.

Speaker3:

So start checking it out.

Speaker3:

I know groups of people who use EXI, I know groups of people who sit on Amazon.

Speaker3:

I know groups of people who are just fine in a way making money by what they just wake up

Speaker3:

and enjoy doing.

Speaker1:

And what's funny is, and the opportunity is there is that they are groups, support groups

Speaker1:

to help people to get there.

Speaker1:

So you're not going it alone because it can be daunting.

Speaker1:

And I do want to do this.

Speaker1:

I want to follow my passion.

Speaker1:

I'm going to sell make this this product.

Speaker1:

But how do I do this?

Speaker1:

How do I actually make a living doing it over time?

Speaker1:

And there are so many free groups out there, support groups, mentors that will love to

Speaker1:

help you get there because they they have that opportunity given to them.

Speaker1:

Somebody help them. And now it's their give back.

Speaker1:

Right now it's there.

Speaker3:

And when I left my you know, when I first left my job, as we talked about an earlier

Speaker3:

session, I was looking for a job.

Speaker3:

Even though I was helping my mom, I was a caregiver.

Speaker3:

I still needed employment because I had a mortgage and I didn't want my dying dad or my

Speaker3:

mom to feel like they had to take care of me.

Speaker3:

Right, without his education.

Speaker3:

So going on interviews, it became I think Tim spoke to her earlier.

Speaker3:

It's coded language in interviews.

Speaker3:

And we know that we see it in our in our more mature populations.

Speaker3:

There is some ageism.

Speaker3:

We know that happening out there.

Speaker3:

There's coded language that I dealt with where you're overqualified or you're

Speaker3:

underqualified or is all this.

Speaker3:

But we have the skill set.

Speaker3:

And so that becomes very frustrating when, you know, you are talented, when you know you

Speaker3:

are vibrant, when you know that you are full of life.

Speaker3:

So when Bret talks about those communities, it is so important to find those communities.

Speaker3:

And then you realize I can do this on my own.

Speaker3:

And before you know it, you're making more money than you would made in that salary job,

Speaker3:

which I think is what when you read about it, you will see people.

Speaker3:

There are stories and research of people who are now making money, doing what they love

Speaker3:

and probably making more money doing what they love.

Speaker3:

So it is just I don't want to just be the optimist here, but I want I do want people to

Speaker3:

hear that we are in a space, an environment, a climate, a culture where we can do

Speaker3:

whatever we want.

Speaker3:

And I don't know if we've ever seen that before.

Speaker4:

And I very true. I think Kourtney brings up some great points and as well as Brett, that

Speaker4:

the barriers to access to do your own thing.

Speaker4:

Right. Instead of it being a side hustle where you had to work a 40 plus hour a week job,

Speaker4:

be the care provider in the home, and then try to find time to do the other patients that

Speaker4:

you have. We've evolved as a society where we now have access to do that.

Speaker4:

You know, the notion of getting something copyrighted or proprietary was, you know, oh, I

Speaker4:

got to get a lawyer, I got to do all of this.

Speaker4:

Now, we can do this with a few forms and clicks online.

Speaker4:

And we own our own name.

Speaker4:

We own our own rights to our own right product that we're creating our website.

Speaker2:

We can do all thing.

Speaker4:

Yeah. And with that, that allows a lot of people who have talent that otherwise would have

Speaker4:

been overlooked to come into.

Speaker4:

The marketplace and we have the distribution where we can go direct to the customer,

Speaker4:

right? We used to have to go through.

Speaker4:

Well, I can't sell this product or this service unless I'm affiliated with something

Speaker4:

else. Now, I can deliver this directly to you in a plethora of options online.

Speaker2:

Right. To two resources that I just want to throw in here real quickly, because it

Speaker2:

starting a business in Ohio is not difficult.

Speaker2:

It can be done. State of Ohio has their small business centers that will help in all of

Speaker2:

the services are free.

Speaker2:

The SBA has services.

Speaker2:

It's all free. Tim, you were talking about Moogs, one that is lynda.com l y n'diaye dot

Speaker2:

com many people use, but there are fees to it.

Speaker2:

Go get a get a library card from Columbus Public Library, go through their resources.

Speaker2:

They're offering tens of thousands of courses.

Speaker2:

So just want to throw that out.

Speaker2:

And again, we're going to add all this to our our resources sheet.

Speaker2:

But I just want to go on to to my next question, because it's really sort of to finalize

Speaker2:

this part of our our conversation.

Speaker2:

Employers are telling you, oh, you're too overqualified.

Speaker2:

You know, we heard that for our older job seekers so many times, it was amazing.

Speaker2:

There's a disconnect between what we think we employers want us to say in an interview

Speaker2:

and what they're really looking for.

Speaker2:

Some advice.

Speaker4:

Yeah, I'm fortunate that I get to participate in a number of advisory boards here in the

Speaker4:

Columbus area that are pretty much made of the directors and leaders of talent

Speaker4:

acquisition and recruiting and every one of them, whether they're in health care,

Speaker4:

insurance, food and beverage, they say I just can't find enough people.

Speaker4:

And I always find that disheartening because I look out and I say, we have so many good

Speaker4:

people in our community, so many talented people who are willing and ready to work.

Speaker4:

So there's clearly right your word, Carol, a disconnect there.

Speaker4:

Yes. And I feel part of that disconnect is on the employers.

Speaker4:

They have to take a look at what are their expectations and what are those job

Speaker4:

descriptions requiring?

Speaker4:

When is that real?

Speaker2:

And is that is is what they put into their tracking system really what they want?

Speaker2:

It's the yeah. The old typical adage on computers, you know, you put garbage in, you're

Speaker2:

getting garbage out if you put in.

Speaker2:

Information into that tracking system, which is not really the candidate you want, you

Speaker2:

are never going to get a candidate.

Speaker3:

Yeah, and the beauty of so the work that I get the privilege to do on every day and

Speaker3:

diversity, inclusion and equity is that we know that there's bias in hiring practices.

Speaker3:

We know that as much as companies want to do EHI, which is using, you know, artificial

Speaker3:

intelligence to hire and to track.

Speaker3:

We know that the person that's entering the information into the FBI, if they are bias,

Speaker3:

then they're entry coded language and words that also create bias.

Speaker3:

So we can expect for these tracking systems to just miraculously.

Speaker2:

Right. And it may be that they just don't know.

Speaker3:

They don't know because unconscious bias means you don't know.

Speaker3:

That's by definition, they write been

Speaker2:

Trained and

Speaker3:

You have not been trained to do it correctly.

Speaker3:

So that leads to the beauty of the work that I get to do.

Speaker3:

I have a privilege of working with H.R.

Speaker3:

executives and H.R.

Speaker3:

teams that literally are doing the work of going through their hiring practices, meaning

Speaker3:

do we actually need somebody to have a masters degree for this job?

Speaker3:

And historically we've done that.

Speaker3:

Have we actually lost talent because we've put that in there and we really don't need it.

Speaker3:

We now have conversations around when we say it's not they're not a good fit.

Speaker3:

What really does that mean?

Speaker3:

Is that our own unconscious bias, because they don't talk the way we speak, they don't

Speaker3:

use the right language. We think, are we actually not bringing that talent because of

Speaker3:

that? Those conversations are happening.

Speaker3:

And a plug for central Ohio.

Speaker3:

There are some incredible organizations in central Ohio who are having those

Speaker3:

conversations and who are also doing the work to make sure that they change how they

Speaker3:

recruit, to make sure how they hire, to make sure how they even have hiring panels.

Speaker3:

So there is a lot of work happening to make sure that we are more inclusive in the way we

Speaker3:

hire and that we are bringing making sure that we have talent and not just the talent we

Speaker3:

think we want, but the talent that our organization needs.

Speaker3:

And I want our listeners to hear that, to know that as much as we're asking you to do the

Speaker3:

work, to update your resume, to jump on LinkedIn, know that on the other side, the

Speaker3:

employers are being challenged and charged to also do the same.

Speaker3:

So if we do this right and well and people like Tim and I in the workforce helping and

Speaker3:

people like you that are having these conversations, if we all do this together, then we

Speaker3:

have an opportunity to change the way our workforce looks.

Speaker3:

And that goes back to my earlier point that we now know that research says having these

Speaker3:

different inner generations, these different generations in the workforce actually is a

Speaker3:

strategic advantage because it's helping with innovation and is helping with that bottom

Speaker3:

line.

Speaker2:

You know, one of the things that we used to tell our older clients is don't assume that

Speaker2:

the interviewer that you are going to be talking with is good.

Speaker2:

And again, it's not their fault.

Speaker2:

They may be literally the receptionist who got stuck because they enter the normal

Speaker2:

interview. A recruiter is not in that day.

Speaker2:

So but also that the.

Speaker2:

Systems are correct, so I'm sort of beating this again a little bit, but to put it in

Speaker2:

perspective, when when the tracking systems first started, we were working with an

Speaker2:

employer and trying to post their jobs and get people to apply to this great

Speaker2:

organization, one of the largest in the communities.

Speaker2:

And people were calling saying, Carol, I can't get through the system.

Speaker2:

It's knocking me out, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Speaker2:

I called the recruiter and I said, have you ever done this?

Speaker2:

Have you ever actually applied for a job through your system?

Speaker2:

Of course they hadn't.

Speaker2:

And they said, well, so why did you pick this particular system?

Speaker2:

It really doesn't work.

Speaker2:

I mean, I have three degrees and I can't get through your system.

Speaker2:

Bottom line is that technical folks picked the system, not the H.R.

Speaker2:

folks. So so job seekers have to be just ready to commit to being a job seeker, to really

Speaker2:

doing everything you can and be persistent because the systems, they may not be set up to

Speaker2:

be biased, but they are biased just because of the way that they were configured.

Speaker2:

They are

Speaker3:

There. And the more we start to know what this whole thing is, the more we start to

Speaker3:

realize how it all has negatively impacted all of us, the better we'll get at it.

Speaker3:

But until then, that persistent piece goes as far as to if I know that I am qualified for

Speaker3:

this position and I'm not getting through the system, I'm calling Meija.

Speaker3:

And a lot of that is I may have to sit on hold.

Speaker3:

Now we have speaker phone, so just put the speaker phone.

Speaker3:

I want to go wash dishes or, you know, like me, I've typically put loads at a larger

Speaker3:

office. They'll work it, but I'm going to make sure I get through and then you say it to

Speaker3:

them and then typically they will.

Speaker3:

You know, I've had experiences of myself and friends who've then schedule interviews

Speaker3:

because the people say, send your resume.

Speaker3:

And when you read the resume, it was because we didn't have the right language.

Speaker3:

But we have more. We had we had over the skill, but we didn't have the language that

Speaker3:

detected that was a technical person put in, right.

Speaker3:

Yeah. So there is a little bit of legwork, but you just have to be willing to do it and

Speaker3:

trust that. On the other side we are hounding say you have to make sure that you are

Speaker3:

putting in key words that isn't resonating.

Speaker3:

Right, that you just randomly found on Google or in at the source.

Speaker2:

I would get the the eye roll from employers when I'd say you probably have more success if

Speaker2:

you didn't use that tracking system and actually had somebody read those resumes right

Speaker2:

there like, oh, you know,

Speaker4:

So it's a balance that we continue to work through.

Speaker4:

Right. Because the advancement of technology benefit us in a lot of ways.

Speaker4:

But as you state, Carol, the applicant tracking systems, if they're not set up and if you

Speaker4:

don't have educated people using them and I'm talking about on the employer side, then

Speaker4:

they actually can do more harm than good.

Speaker4:

It's like similar to, you know, the in-person approach.

Speaker4:

We shouldn't have to go to a workaround if if the system is working well.

Speaker4:

And so I encourage employers, if they aren't getting good candidates, take a really deep

Speaker4:

dive, how their entire candidate experience looks, where they putting their

Speaker4:

advertisements, who are they reaching out to?

Speaker4:

And if they aren't sure how to do that, reach out to Courtney or I and we will help you

Speaker4:

navigate that so that you can be more relevant and show up to a larger audience that will

Speaker4:

help impact your bottom line.

Speaker2:

Yes, your phone numbers and websites and emails will be on the show notes.

Speaker1:

Exactly. Well, you know, this podcast is focusing on adults over 50.

Speaker1:

Let's let's put it in perspective.

Speaker1:

How, you know, what's the advice for older job candidates with all of this that we've

Speaker1:

just talked about?

Speaker4:

The advice is take advantage of the fact that the younger generation has demanded

Speaker4:

flexibility in the workforce.

Speaker4:

Right. So now you're at a stage in your life where you've got lots of great experience,

Speaker4:

but you you have other things in your life that are commanding your time and attention.

Speaker4:

You really do want to be able to care for your grandchildren part time or pick up and

Speaker4:

drop off certain things in the community at a volunteer shelter while you also still work

Speaker4:

in a relevant space.

Speaker4:

So find that balance and go and approach the manager of the store or the friend that you

Speaker4:

used to work with that you trained to backfill your role.

Speaker4:

Ask them, well, well, I know how to do quick books or I know how to do all of that.

Speaker4:

Can I come in and just work 20 hours a week or can I work 30 or.

Speaker4:

You know what? We actually are in a great position and be forthright and say I don't need

Speaker4:

benefits. So is there a contract situation that I can explore?

Speaker4:

And if that's intimidating to you, then take the time to meet with some of these local

Speaker4:

nonprofits and their work groups and help them walk you through what that looks like.

Speaker4:

And right, it's don't be intimidated by starting your own business, take your side,

Speaker4:

hustle your side gig and make it real, and a lot of times I've heard folks say, well, how

Speaker4:

am I going to cover my insurance?

Speaker4:

Well, we have a whole health marketplace and it's not perfect, but it's there and it

Speaker4:

didn't used to be.

Speaker4:

And now you can go out and you can pick your insurance however you choose according to

Speaker4:

what your family needs are and what your affordability is.

Speaker4:

But, you know, for the more mature worker and it cracks me up because.

Speaker4:

Right. According to the the US Congress, at 40 plus you're now protected by the Age

Speaker4:

Discrimination Act.

Speaker2:

You two are on now.

Speaker4:

Yeah. And I think, you know, I know people who are still very productive at work and

Speaker4:

they're beyond 70 and they know everything that's going on in the environment.

Speaker4:

So it's not it's not simple.

Speaker4:

I don't want to make it sound simple, but it is the persistence.

Speaker4:

It is the networking.

Speaker4:

It is taking that self inventory to have realistic expectations of your time and the

Speaker4:

value of your time.

Speaker4:

And then it's, you know, using the the technology and the pathways that are there and

Speaker4:

moving forward and being committed to it.

Speaker4:

I do think it's critical that you stay committed to what you want to do and stay with

Speaker4:

that

Speaker2:

Talk, talk to people that you are who that are doing what you want to do.

Speaker2:

People love talking about their job and their goals and their mission.

Speaker2:

And you know how how excited they are to get up and make their widgets every day and talk

Speaker2:

to people about that. That's the best way to learn.

Speaker3:

And so BBC did an article on 2019 and it talked about how, you know, our our elders are

Speaker3:

more seasoned. People can reinvigorate the workforce and we'll put that up for in a

Speaker3:

resource. But that is a fantastic it was just a fantastic article, as you all probably

Speaker3:

know by now. I think NPR and BBC are great resources for our world.

Speaker3:

But they talked about by 20, the United States Bureau of Labor Statistics said by 2026,

Speaker3:

one in 10 workers will be 75 and older.

Speaker3:

Right, so we already know that, as Tim said, we're not leaving Earth until we're over 100

Speaker3:

at this point, right. So our work force, we now have research that says a more age,

Speaker3:

diverse workforce is a better workforce.

Speaker3:

All right. So just empower yourself to know that you are now an asset when decades.

Speaker3:

We didn't look at it that way.

Speaker3:

It's now proven.

Speaker3:

And guess what? You should also be able to brag to your grandchildren and to your

Speaker3:

children that by you staying in the workforce, you're also helping their wages, because

Speaker3:

research tells us that the older people who are in the workforce make sure because they

Speaker3:

are at a certain wage gap, then they make sure that they're increasing the wages for

Speaker3:

other generations.

Speaker3:

So, again, a strategic advantage, having age diversity on our teams and in our workforce.

Speaker3:

So I would tell people, don't cut yourself out, don't eliminate yourself, arm yourself.

Speaker3:

Look at the resources that we're going to put up on yourself with the knowledge and

Speaker3:

knowing that you are valuable.

Speaker3:

And then from there you say, I no longer want to work to work.

Speaker3:

I want to enjoy it.

Speaker3:

Then think about what is it that I can do where I enjoy it.

Speaker3:

Right. And then you pursue that.

Speaker3:

And then after that, you say, how can I make money?

Speaker3:

Is it actually going back to the workforce or can I do it online?

Speaker3:

And if so, where are the groups that will help me do it online?

Speaker3:

There are practical ways to reinvent ourselves, to reinvigorate our lives and to actually

Speaker3:

enjoy them. Right.

Speaker3:

And so those are the resources that I would just recommend

Speaker2:

My my older adult clients were my inspiration.

Speaker2:

And so those encore careers for older adults are phenomenal.

Speaker2:

That's what I'm doing. I'm on my my second encore career working with Brett, so make him

Speaker2:

work. OK, so I look

Speaker3:

How happy you two are, by the way.

Speaker3:

I know. I think that's the goal here.

Speaker3:

We have

Speaker2:

Fun. Exactly.

Speaker2:

I told him when he when he suggested we do this, I said, as long as we're having fun.

Speaker3:

Well, you're examples of what we all should have.

Speaker2:

Exactly. Right, exactly.

Speaker2:

OK, I'm going to ask you one more question, but I'm going to give you a time limit

Speaker2:

because we're running out of time.

Speaker2:

Any additional advice?

Speaker4:

I'll just add, you know, there is that disconnect, but it isn't one that we can't

Speaker4:

overcome, right.

Speaker4:

Between opportunity and employment.

Speaker4:

And so stay with it.

Speaker4:

And the other piece, it's OK if you say this isn't a culture fit and you exit in a month

Speaker4:

or two, don't stay in a role just because you have a job.

Speaker4:

Make that transition so that you have what Courtney just said, you're happy, right,

Speaker4:

right. It's OK to want to be happy and then to go pursue a career that allows you to do

Speaker4:

that.

Speaker3:

I agree. I have nothing else to add.

Speaker3:

I absolutely agree.

Speaker1:

Thank you both for being here.

Speaker1:

Your insights, your recommendations.

Speaker1:

We knew this was going to be a great episode.

Speaker1:

We had to reschedule a couple of times.

Speaker1:

covid think something.

Speaker1:

Yeah, yeah. But you know what?

Speaker1:

I hope you get to return, provide us more information.

Speaker1:

I know we can dive into more topics and probably get a bit more specific on some things

Speaker1:

that we covered a lot of ground, which is good.

Speaker1:

It's a it's a good starting point for us to move forward with following episodes.

Speaker2:

Thank you. Thank you for joining us.