00:00:06 Sayan: Have you ever noticed how quickly the mind turns life into a into verdict. Something happens and instantly there's a label. Good. Okay, this is bad. This is right or this is wrong. You know, my fault, their fault, whatever. And tonight, we are actually slowing that down. Because freedom often begins not with doing more, but with unlearning what really tightens us.

00:00:31 Sayan: Welcome back to another episode of Healing Horizons, a space where we explore healing as something human, which is practical, emotional, and deeply lived. My name is cyan, as some of you would know, and today I'm joined by Kay Whittaker and the only known lineage holder of KC and ancient spiritual traditions. He studied for thirteen years beginning in the nineteen seventies. And I invite you all to join me on this conversation. Um, where we would be particularly talking about the teachings of, uh, Uh, courtesy through his new book, uh, and which is seven no no's. Uh, that's a quite interesting name. Uh, and we would be digging deeper into what it is really, uh, but if you have been feeling mentally loud, emotionally tangled, or just, uh, tired of carrying judgment all along, this conversation is gonna hit home. So, uh, welcome to the show. Okay. It's, uh, it's an honor to have you here with me today. And, you know, I'm excited to see where this conversation really unfolds.

00:01:36 Kay Cordell Whitaker: I am very happy to be here. It's really nice. I want to thank you. Yes.

00:01:41 Sayan: Thank you so much. It's it's an honor. And thankfully speaking, uh, I mean, uh, I did a bit of research about what these teachings really are, but, uh, I believe you would be the best person to, you know, straight away ask you the questions. But before we get into your book, the seven no no's and I mean, from where did you get the inspiration of that name? Uh, I'm curious as to what was really happening in your life when, uh, Stop feeling like an idea and started feeling like a lift. Truth.

00:02:13 Kay Cordell Whitaker: HMM. Well, that was a that was back in the seventies when I started, um, studying with my adopted grandparents and and they're my teachers. Oh, and Chia Head from Peru and the, the way they lived their life is, is very different than how we live ours. And the way, the way, even the way they think and they feel and how they respond, um, is very, very, very different. They used to say, um, that their teachings came from a time before the flood, way before twelve thousand years. And this is when a culture, a whole culture at one time lived, lived this way from from their heart, from love, from beauty, from peace and communication with each other. Deep civil cooperation, connectedness. So. The way we are living today is what they call upside down and backwards, which when you look at what's going on out there and what's going on with individuals and governments, that's upside down and backwards, for sure.

00:03:48 Sayan: Yeah, it's definitely I mean, there's a lot of things that does come to my mind specifically with, you know, whatever is happening around us. Um, but if I have to ask you, you know, what, what do you think is. Why do you think? Rather, we have built these sort of walls around us. You know, why are we living in this, uh, ecosystem where we're always trying to compete with each other? You know, why are we so disconnected? I mean, definitely social media and internet comes, uh, you know, as an instant, uh, you know, as a, as a reminder that, you know, it could be, uh, it could disrupt the human life and put it upside down, like you said. But I just wanted to know from you because you have literally seen, uh, the times change, uh, as you, as you live on. So what's your take on that? Why is it happening really well.

00:04:47 Kay Cordell Whitaker: Um, like I say in the book, this is the book, the seven no no's. And what it's describing are what my teachers used to say in their broken English. When we'd be Talking. They'd be trying to teach me something and I'd make a response and they'd go, that's a that's a no, that's a no, no, no, don't do that. No judgment. No, whatever it was I was doing. And they said it quite nicely. They're very, very loving, loving, soft, gentle people. And they would say it this real kind of like a, a little joke, but they kept interrupting me as I was going about my business, as I was talking, answering questions and they go, that's a no, no, that's a no no. It got to be a very funny joke. And so I, I just started calling them the no no's.

00:05:50 Sayan: And is that also the, the, a source of inspiration for the name of the book perhaps.

00:05:55 Kay Cordell Whitaker: Yes, exactly. Because as I, as I'm writing it, um, that's, that's all I'm saying. I'm talking about the no no's. When I talk to my students and we, we're talking about the no no's and then we list them and, and then we go and we describe what they are. And, um, what they are is, is a, it's like a formula. It's a magic formula of what we can do. Very simple, very easy. Doesn't take a long time. And it just means you have to start paying attention to this, that, that we've learned how to think and feel and, and respond automatically. Um, we've been programmed that way. And that's what we call the blind beliefs. We hold these blind beliefs, we never question them. Never. We have a lifetime full of blind beliefs that we collected and we've never questioned any of it. We just think it's really, really true. This is what my mom said when I was little. And this is what grandpa said. And, uh, we we just, we hang on to that and we internalize it. And that's, that's what turns everything upside down and backwards because those beliefs and ideas and sometimes outright lies that we were told, uh, you know, from the time we were a little kid, uh, they're, they're racking with, with our sensibilities. They, they block out our, our inherent heartfelt feelings. And, um, that knowingness of love and beauty blocks out our morals and our ethics and, um, it just, it turns us into a totally different kind of person. And we see that across the board with humanity everywhere in the modern world, across the planet. We see this way of thinking, this way of believing, and this way of this automatic pilot behavior just reacting, reacting, react. And it's very hurtful to the people outside of us that we're, we're aiming all these little dark energy darts at. But every, every dart you send out it, that energy's coming back. The ancients say that energy travels in two directions at once. This means any kind of energy. And so if you're throwing nasty energy at something else out there or at yourself, then you've got another. You've got this nasty energy, the same thing coming back at you, and it eats at you and hurts you. And it it just it it tears you down. It makes you feel helpless. Powerless. Um, not not loved, separated, unattractive. Nobody likes you. Nobody wants you. Everybody's going to kick me out. And I'm going to be exiled from whatever it is I know. And that's that is a very hard way to live. It's a very destructive way to live. And what it ends up with is, uh, we're doing it as individuals, but as individuals. Our energies are sending it out and we're literally creating the whole world around us. The government that we don't like and the, the monetary system we don't like and all we've. Actually, all together communally, we have been making the world we see around us. So the only way to take it apart and set it right and heal it is to heal it in ourselves. And that's what the no no book is. That's what each one of these no no's, they get you started on being able to see how it is you think, and then you can go through these processes. There's all these practices in the book. And, um, for each one of the no no's as to what to think about that, how are you feeling that in your body? Do you when you do this or it's done to you, you feel it somewhere? Where is that? How is that? And so we, we think through it, we feel through it. And we, we just start understanding where it came from. We look as best as we can into our childhood and see if Mom or dad said those things to us. We heard those words from them. Or was it a teacher or was it the TV set? Was it the neighbor? Was it, um, some other kid? And it wasn't just childhood that we were collecting this. We collect it till the day we die. Things that people are saying, things that we see and we hear. We collect that information and just suck it in. And we think it's real and we'll defend it. We get very emotional. The blind.

00:11:34 Sayan: Leading.

00:11:36 Kay Cordell Whitaker: The blind beliefs just suck up the emotions and the. And it gets you really fired up about how how much that. That's the truth. But when you do these exercises, you see that you look into your past and you feel it and you see. Oh, I remember I had that that conversation with John and it turned out to be such a disaster, a nightmare. And John doesn't speak to me anymore, and I don't want to speak to him. And life doesn't have to be that way. We both reacted automatically like automatic pilot. That's what the blind beliefs do. So the no no's, the no no's actually start off with the blind beliefs. And because they're, they're kind of the leader of the pack. Everything else comes out of the blind beliefs. So the, the second, um, no, no is no judgments, no condemnations, no throwing those black darts out there. The third was no expectations. Don't go start off doing anything or think about other people or a new person you're going to meet and you have all these expectations about them. You're making a picture of who you think they are before you ever even met them. And then as soon as you see him, it's like, oh, they don't have the same eye color I do. They dress differently and they. Oh, and you start making up all these stories and ideas in your mind about the person. That is not true at all. It's all lies. So no expectations, no assumptions. And this gets more into almost a scientific way of looking at life, which is a popular thing in, in the modern world, to be technological, to be a little bit scientific, to know, know things about the world, about like that. And we make a lot of assumptions. We have a lot of my ideas or ideas somebody else gave us, but sometimes it's what we make make up ourselves with our own imagination. And and we just assume and often we don't assume things out loud. So we're assuming we're assuming that your, your best friend and housemate that you know, you're sharing the apartment with, it's going to come home. Um, with dinner, it's their turn to buy dinner and they're going to show up with dinner in hand. And, um, and so you're assuming this. And maybe there's reasons behind it, maybe not. Maybe you just wish it's wishful thinking. And so when they show up, maybe they don't have what you thought you wanted or they were going to get. And it becomes Just a storm inside yourself. You get angry. You get angry at the person. You're disappointed. Uh, it means it just. We have these automatic reactions that stab out at at, uh, the housemate and blame them and everything's imaginary. The whole story is imaginary. And we do this with so many different things, even if there's a little thread of, of truth in it somewhere at the beginning that maybe started the picture and started the assumption, but we turn it into a whole, a whole fantasy, a whole trip. The fifth, uh, is no jumping to conclusions. And that's something a lot of us really like to do that our brain just kicks up All relations automatically. That maybe don't even have any real relevance, have no truth to them. What the issue is. And, and we just jump into this conclusion and, and we're ready to defend it. So no jumping to conclusions. The sixth is no arrogance. And arrogance is thinking that you're better than everybody else. You're better than than that person. You're, you're too good to be in the job that you ended up with. Or sometimes arrogance comes as, oh, I know that already. I don't don't stop to listen like a. That's a favorite thing for students. They don't want to listen to the professor at all. They think they know it already. They don't have to listen or they don't have to read the book. Yeah. And that's arrogance. That's putting yourself on the top of the hierarchy. We have a hierarchical ladder in our culture and where everybody's trying to get on top of that hierarchy, and we usually end up kicking somebody else off the, the, the rung of the ladder so we can get up a little higher.

00:17:13 Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:17:15 Kay Cordell Whitaker: Yeah. And it's a, it's a whole big social game that is based on fantasy because those people who think they are at the top and act like they're, are at the top, they act like authorities, lawmakers or whatever. And, uh, they aren't, they aren't any different than you and they aren't any smarter than you are. They aren't any better. And what we do when we're, when we're doing these no nos is we're pushing people away. We're Pushing people away from ourselves. Even the people that we think are the most. The, um, the closest to us, closest in our family. Maybe it's our living partner or our marriage partner. Um, we we're just, we're pushing everybody away. Our kids, we were pushed away and we're, we're copying that behavior without any questions. So the last one, the seventh. No, no, this is no negative perceptions. And what's what that means is that this is somebody who's got a lot of beliefs that every time a new subject comes up, something pops in their mind. Um, uh, maybe a new book was shown to them or a new person that they're supposed to meet. They see something wrong with it. They see something wrong with that person or with that idea, or with that process at work, in the workplace or at home. There's, oh, that's not going to work. Right. And, and they, they get, they're just really negative. They're really down. Their energy is down. They don't see anything in a positive way. They don't see the light. They don't see the love. They don't see any beauty. They don't see any peace. Everything is negative. And that that is closing oneself off completely. Yeah. From from love, from, from the everything that we think of as spiritual and, and beautiful and moral and ethical and, um, the piece. A lot of people these days are having trouble trying to find peace, and when they get into a bad moment, they turns into hours and days. They don't know how to get themselves out of it. And that's what the No-No book is all about. That's what these No-No steps tell you how to look at yourself, how to find the blind beliefs, how to find these behaviors in yourself and notice them. You get to where you notice them all day long. If it hadn't been pointed out to me when when I was quite young in the seventies and they'd say, oh, that's a no, no. Oh, you made an assumption. Oh, that's arrogance. No, that's no arrogance here. You you get to see it in yourself, even without the the teacher pointing it out. And that's that's the point that we want to get to. We want to be able to notice that so we can stop those habits. We've become. Very, very, very addicted to the blind beliefs. And all these these negative habits and these no no's, all these, those behaviors and their reactions, the emotions that go with them. Uh, we're addicted to them. And that addiction that, that blocks out what's real in the world is all about what, what is the real world? It's not this crazy chaos out there with a forever wars and all the corruption, uh, violence and crazy, crazy craziness the real world is, love and the the ancient teachings say everything in our world is made out of love. It's been created out of love. Those are the threads that that weave our world and weave us love and real, real, deep, sacred beauty. Connectedness to everything they believe. Everything, everything. Everything is alive. Like even every atom, every rock, you know, the wind, the water, trees, everything's alive. And we're connected to everything. And there's, there's all this energy and information going back and forth between everybody and everything. And we can feel it. And the love is, is going back and forth, the beauty and the peace and how how delicious this connectedness is, is when you get to where you really you could feel it. We can feel all these things if we just let go of the blind beliefs and our habits to them. Do this no nos to.

00:23:12 Speaker 4: Yeah.

00:23:13 Kay Cordell Whitaker: To the addiction. When we realize that these things have actually been very addictive and we do have an addiction to them and to these behaviors, that's, that's a very big first step. Just like an alcoholic at an AA meeting to realize they're addicted and they need to, to do something appropriate to, to fix that, to undo that, clean up their lives. So we need to we need to do the same thing.

00:23:52 Sayan: Yeah, I think, uh, that's a lot of wisdom right there. And I think the problem is where and when, you know, people start seeing themselves as the center of the universe, you know, like the arrogance part that you talked about, uh, you know, always being right or, you know, that all knowing attitude perhaps, but, uh, you know, the thing that really stood out to me was that when you said, you know, it's a, it's a social game. I mean, that all together we are it, right? I mean, our win is, you know, someone's loss and vice versa. I mean, and if you put it that way, I think everything becomes much more clearer as to why, uh, you know, there's, there's this unfairness in the world. Um, so k for people who actually, uh, want to go deeper with you and find the seven no no's a Guide to Awakening and Freedom. Where should they look? You know your website, your book link or a place that you would like to read. Redirect them first.

00:24:57 Kay Cordell Whitaker: Um, so we are, we are, we are. We are at courtesy com K a t a s e e dot com. And the book, it could be bought anywhere, any bookstore. It's it's out on the market. It could be ordered from anywhere and you can buy it on the website. There are links on the website. The you can go there. Um, Amazon.com is a big favorite. And there's, um. Uh, I don't know if they're out yet because this just came out officially yesterday.

00:25:39 Speaker 4: Wow.

00:25:40 Kay Cordell Whitaker: But with.

00:25:40 Speaker 4: It is. Yeah. Right. Right there.

00:25:45 Kay Cordell Whitaker: Um, they have, we have, we have a workbook that goes with it. And there are workshops that are starting up, um, that are working with the book and helping people, teaching people how to do this in, in person and online.

00:26:06 Speaker 4: That's great.

00:26:07 Kay Cordell Whitaker: And it's all of that is on the website. And as everything new pops up, it pops up on the website. And my other books are there. The classes. Yeah. And the descriptions and the archives with, uh, a lot of videos. We do a lot of videos that describe what courtesy is. And how how to try to live it. How what does it mean to live it? So lots of those videos and they're free.

00:26:43 Speaker 4: Wow.

00:26:43 Kay Cordell Whitaker: And yeah, especially the one called Finding Your Song. And we have a lot of song ceremonies. This finding your song is the first ceremony that they had to teach and to their children when they're toddlers. And it's the first ceremony that, that they do, um, their whole lives. And whenever they, they are putting a big ceremony sequence together for themselves. Everything starts out with the song ceremony. And the song ceremony is about finding out who you are and what you are for real. And it's not about thinking it to death and trying to find out who you are by thinking it to death. I'm thinking this about me or that, or I wish this or it's a it's a feeling thing. Everything in courtesy is, is about the feelings, and this is how we heal ourselves. This is how we heal our world and this is how we learn things. Real learning comes through feeling. And in the song ceremony, you learn to remember. Something in your past that was really, really happy or falling in love. That feeling or seeing a brand new baby or a baby, puppy or kitten or yes, that that really beautiful, beautiful feeling. Uh, it's a happy, a happy and a love and beauty feeling. And that feeling as you feel it is actually you. This is your song. This is who you are. the totality of your spirit, your soul, your whatever it is you want to call it, your peace of creator that you, the totality of you, that's the headache is called that your song because they, they think very poetically and, um, they feel that our totality, our song that has been alive for eons and eons and eons and forever, and it's been in different lifetimes, in different places. And we can remember all that. This is the feeling of you, who you really are. This is the feeling that that helps take you to all those places inside yourself, where the wisdom is and where the magic is. This is courtesy and you can find whatever you want, Aren't the answers. The information about whoever, whatever, whenever. It's all part of your song. You're attached to it. You're connected. And it's a beautiful, beautiful ceremony that feels so glorious. And once you know your own song, you've you felt it and you can, you can repeat that ceremony and feel it again and be there again. Then you, you start noticing the songs of everybody else and everything else. The trees and the rocks and the grains of sand and the wind. The water trickling water and, um, the stars, the heavens, even, even the black void between the stars. You know, the scientists have been saying forever that this is, this is a nothingness That's a void out there with absolutely nothing in it. That's not true. It's it's the most alive place that there is. And it has it has huge energy and, and huge memory. And, uh, it's part of us. We are part of it. It's all connected. We're the, the ancients like to say we are each a unique individual piece of creator.

00:31:04 Sayan: Yeah. I mean, uh, that's, that's a, uh, you know what, what you're trying to do, uh, with, with, uh, you know, anything that you just mentioned. I think that really stood out to me. And, uh, you know, I really, really appreciate you for putting out the word there in front of whoever's listening to this right now. And, uh, I believe, uh, this is perhaps, you know, uh, one of those times where we should help each other out as much as we can. You know, we are living in this distressed times. Uh, and I think it's our responsibility to, to, you know, look out for each other. So thank you so much for mentioning your website as well. I'll make sure the links are in the show notes so that people could easily find you and your work as well. And folks, with that, we come to an end to today's conversation. And I would just like you to think about. And this is what also I'm taking away from this conversation, right? So when you talk about freedom, it's, it isn't a state in the future. And it's, it's not something that, that you can, that you can buy. I think it's what begins the moment we stop feeding the minds harshest habits and return to what's true with the body. So I would like you to sit with that thought for a few minutes as we wrap this conversation off. And before we close, just notice your breath for one moment. Uh, you know, and if this conversation gave you even a small exhale, perhaps do consider for, uh, follow healing horizons, not because we are changing better, but because we are practicing truer and for more honest and grounded conversation like this. Uh, we would practice a lot. So do share this with someone who's been carrying that loud, uh, noise in their head. And until next time, be gentle with yourself, folks, and I'll see you again in the next one.