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Welcome to life. Well loved. I'm James Marriott. It is great to be with you here on Friday lunchtime. Last day of the school holidays. I say that. I guess that depends whereabouts you are, because there's always kind of little regional variances with that, isn't there? So this is where we go live on Bella and Duke's Facebook page with a guest and a bit of a topic. Let's introduce our guest today, and it's a pleasure to have with us Nikki from Positive Steps Dog Training. Hi, Nikki. How are you doing today?

Hello, James. I'm good, thank you. How are you? I'm all right.

Can you believe it's the last day of the summer holiday?

Oh, I know. I hope everybody survived next week.

It's come around so fast.

Last day you've made it, everybody. Last day you're there.

I always remember being a. When I was a kid at school, and when you break up for the summer and you think six weeks is such a long time, and it just feels like forever. And now in adulthood, six weeks, it's like, blink there it is.

It's nice. It does, doesn't it? And when you've been off, I think, for so long as well, that first day back at work, always the most difficult, isn't it?

Absolutely is. Absolutely is. Right. So we have done a podcast together before, so I feel like I already kind of know you, but I'm assuming there's people that will be tuned in watching this that maybe don't know you so well. So just tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do, if you would do Nikki.

Yeah. So obviously my name's Nikki. I am the founder of Positive Steps Dog Training. So I've been working as a dog trainer now for well over five years, running my own business. I am a qualified trainer with the Institute of Modern Dog Trainers and a certified behaviorist with the British College of Canine Studies. So I mostly work with clients who are struggling kind of with their dog's anxiety. So we see things like reactivity, we see separation anxiety, what people might kind of label aggression, aggressive type behavior. So we're kind of working mostly on behavioral cases to basically help dogs feel better.

Is there a magic formula to that, or is every dog a little bit different?

I wish it was as simple. I wish there was a magic formula. If there was, I think I'd be out of a job. But no, every dog is different. There are so many factors at play. Obviously, we touched on briefly last time about training kind of historically being centered on obedience. And obviously, there's just so much more to it. You know, we want to not just look at the dog's behaviour, but also all of the needs, their physical, mental, social needs. We're also taking into account their diet, which obviously we talked a lot about last time, and also the medical health, because all of those factors, they're all interlinked, and it all plays a massive role in behavior.

Absolutely. And. And we. What we should probably do is, is at some point, we'll. We'll stick in the comments a link to that first podcast episode that we did.

Yeah.

Together, I suspect we'll probably go over quite a bit of the stuff that we talked about then. It was a few months ago as well, so there's. Yeah, some things will have changed. And let's. Let's just take a step back. I think sometimes with behavioral stuff, there's a little bit of a psychological hurdle for people to get over. Some people think is in any way behaving badly or behaving in a way that it shouldn't do, that's my fault. How do you kind of get over that initial hurdle of making someone realize that, you know, maybe it's not their fault?

Yeah, that is so unbelievably common. You know, most clients get in touch and will try to kind of justify the dog's behavior. And, you know, they feel so much guilt as to why the kind of dog is showing this type of behavior. So that is normal. And they're certainly not alone in that. But as I say, there are so many factors at play. It's not just as simple as, you know, what kind of the human ends of the leader are doing or not doing. There's things like genetics that will play a massive part. There's early learning. So what will happen to our dogs kind of before they even come to us? So what happens when they're still with the rest of the litter, with mum, with the breeders? Then, of course, there's previous learning. So that will be kind of that socialization period. What happens with, you know, with the dog guardians when they do come to us, and just general life experiences, you know, diet, medical, health, it all plays a part. So it's not just that simple to say it's my fault or I've caused this or I've done that, because there are. There are so many different factors at play. And I think once you start to open that discussion with clients and educate them a little bit more around all of the different things that can impact behavior, then they can start to understand that it's not that simple and it's not their fault.

I already know the answer to this question because we've, we've talked about it before. I'm interested in just delving a little bit more into your background and what got you into this as your calling.

Yeah, so obviously we, as you say, we touched on it last time. My initial background when I was a lot younger was completely different. And so I did marine biology for a few years at university and I worked in marketing for a little bit. It was really as a young child. My. I have quite a few family members that are police officers. So they would expose me to that kind of, you know, the dog unit, the training and kind of what goes on in the, on the police scene with regards to training. So that was my first kind of bit of insight into working with dogs and dog training and fast forward, then a few years go through university work in marketing and then you kind of just hit that point where you go, actually, this is not what I want to do. I obviously had Harley then at that point, so had a bit of insight into some behavioral issues with her as well. And that kind of led me then to start positive steps. And five plus years later, here we are.

Tell us a little bit more about. You mentioned Harley there. Tell us, tell us more about her.

Yeah, so she is a German Shepherd. She's about 6 years old now, actually close to 7. So I switched Harley onto a Bella and Duke raw diet roughly about eight months ago now. And you know, again, we spoke a lot about it last time about the skin condition that she had. I mean, she always has had a quite bad skin, so she'll get a lot of kind of like scab, she'll get a few, like, open wounds. So many skin issues. And she's been on Apoquel medication pretty much most of her, her adult, and sometimes having to also be put on steroids, especially in the summer months when her skin got quite bad. But the biggest thing that we've seen since putting her onto the Bella and Duke diet is that her skin has improved massively. She's never had steroids since. She's been pretty much taken off of Apoquel. I will just give her a few of those tablets, maybe if the pollen is quite high or. But for the most part her skin's fine, completely cleared up. The only change has been obviously her diet. And it's interesting really to see, obviously I see it a lot with clients how, you know, things like diet and, you know, can change and impact behavior. But to see it firsthand with Harley because at her worst when her skin was, was really bad, we would see quite a fair bit of behavior change. So you know, we would see things like, because she was in that much pain, we'd see things like her refusal to kind of jump up and down or in and out the car because it was kind of stretching the skin a little bit, causing more pain. And we would kind of see her start to become a little bit growly and a bit grumbly if we went to touch the, the sensitive areas. And obviously now that the skin's cleared up, she's, she's absolutely fine. She's, she's back to her normal self. So it's, it's interesting to see firsthand the change in behavior that you can get just when you, you have a look at the dog, Dog's medical well being.

Yeah. And I think, you know, one things we really want to kind of focus on today is, is talking about this thing about kind of, you know, medical well being illnesses, how they affect our pets, particularly our dogs obviously, and what role they play in, in their behavior. Because it's a slightly weird thing, isn't it? Because obviously our dogs can't talk to us. You know, if me or you wake up in the morning, we don't feel right. We can say to someone, I don't feel right. This is, this is hurting a bit. I feel a bit this or you know, I felt a little bit sicker. Like we, through you, obviously our dogs can't do that, but they can make us aware that something isn't right. But then it's down to how we interpret that, isn't it? So what, what's that, that connection then between illness and behavior? Like is it, is it as straightforward as it seems?

As always, it's not. But you know, gosh, the, the, the link between behavior and a dog's medical well being, it's, it's such an important topic because they are so interlinked. And you're right. You know, we can compare in humans, if we're not feeling great, if you know, we feel sick or we're in pain, we are a little bit more grouchy and we might snap a little bit more and we can verbally communicate that we don't feel great. So people will be a little bit more patient with us. But obviously in dogs, as you say, they can't communicate. They can't just tell us that they're not feeling, feeling great or they're in pain. And what we see, if we have any Kind of underlying medical issues in our dogs, dogs, then this can lead to this kind of uncharacteristic change in behavior. So, you know, we might commonly see things like an increase in aggression. So we might see more growling, more grumbling, we might see more bite incidents, we might see things like a refusal to walk. So if a dog is in pain, you know, particularly joint pain, then they might be a little bit more apprehensive to go out on a walk. We might see things like a sensitivity to being touched, particularly from strangers, but also sometimes from family members as well. Again, same in humans. If, you know, if we're in pain, there's a sensitive area, we don't want anybody to knock it and cause more pain. We might also see things like an increase in sleeping or just a general reduction in social ability and wanting to play. They might kind of just be a little bit more lethargic and want to be left to themselves. As a behaviorist, obviously we're, as I say, working mostly on behavioural cases. The first port of call is always a vet. Check with the, obviously the vets for every dog. Because we might see really complex behavioural issues. You know, we might be working with a dog that somebody would label aggressive, but if that dog's in pain and that, you know, that behaviour is made a little bit worse because the dog's in a lot of pain, then we can't just treat that as a behavioral issue without assessing the dog's medical well being. Because obviously then it's a potential welfare issue. And if the dog is in pain and does have an underlying medical issue, then no amount of training is going to change that behaviour without us first addressing the medical concern.

I was going to ask, really, I guess what should. Because we know our pets pretty well, we'd probably notice something doesn't seem quite right. And that could be a behavioral thing. It could be, you know, they're meeting a bit differently, all manner of different things. We tend to spot that what should that next step be? But I guess from what you've said, you know, kind of consulting a vet would seem like a really obvious next step in that process.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I think sometimes people can be quite reluctant to take the dogs to the vet, especially if we're just maybe just seeing minor behavioral changes. You know, people are really quick to potentially ask for help behaviorally or maybe sometimes just blame the dog for, you know, being stubborn or not listening. But actually, like I say, a lot of the time it's medically related. So, yeah, a chat with the vet, either a phone call to discuss your dog's behaviour with the vet or obviously going for a vet check. The very least, we should be looking for things like blood tests. The vet will do an external examination to check for things like joint pain, you know, potential arthritis. The most basic, basic tests that we can do to kind of pinpoint whether there are any issues.

Obviously, I guess people that are watching this, that are involved and, you know, kind of tuned into this, may well be people who are part of the Bell and Duke community. So in the Facebook group, quite often, you know, people will reach out there to kind of say, you know, I've noticed this, or I've noticed the other. One of the things that comes up quite a bit in there is when people notice changes in weight in their behavior might not necessarily have changed dramatically, and if it changes over a period of time, maybe they just wouldn't notice that, but pick up on noticing some things changed in terms of their weight. What are we looking at them from, from a kind of like a medical point of view, Are there, you know, specific illnesses that can do that, that kind of lead to kind of changes and, you know, kind of increase or decrease in terms of weight?

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So sometimes we might see more minor issues linked to you, like a loss of appetite if a dog is maybe in a little bit of pain. Or, you know, we might see problems, for example, with the mouth, the gums, teeth, or just general sickness, you know, like us, if we're not feeling well, we lose our appetite. So we might sometimes see the more minor issues like that. If we kind of seeing a dog's loss of appetite or an appetite change over a period of, you know, more than a few days, then at that point we'd be wanting to go and have that vet check and just have that discussion with the vet, because sometimes we can. It can be a result of more serious medical issues. So, for example, we might see sometimes some kind of digestive issues. So we might get pancreatic problems, which can kind of interfere with a dog's ability to break food down into more usable nutrients. So that can lead to weight loss. We might also sometimes see metabolic issues, so, you know, things like diabetes or problems with a dog's thyroid gland. So again, same in humans. It's responsible the dog's thyroid glands responsible for how quickly the body uses energy. So, you know, things like hypothyroidism that can kind of result in this sluggish metabolism. So even if we have a dog that's eating very little Then we might still see an increase in weight because the food is being stored in the body rather than metabolized as it should. And we might then also notice things like fatigue or dry skin or, you know, slow, slow heart rate. And we can also sometimes see changes in weight due to things like parasites so common and so easily picked up. You know, internal parasites can lead to things like fluid retention. So you might kind of see in your dog that kind of like pot bellied appearance. And again, we'd want that vet check blood stool samples. They can then kind of pinpoint the specific parasite. Also sometimes prescription drugs, so I mentioned earlier, things like steroids. More often than not, you'll see weight gain with certain drugs and if that can't be controlled with, you know, food management and basic exercise. And again, that might be another chat with the vet about potential dosage change if we're having weight problems as a result. I think as well, to be honest, the most common thing that we can see in most dogs, and I think a lot of dog owners will have heard of this one, is bloat. So bloat is kind of caused by dogs that eat their food too quickly or if they're eating too close to when they've kind of just had a lot of exercise or been running around a lot. And this is kind of where we see them kind of gulping down their food, but also then they're taking in copious amounts of air as well. So then we end up with a stomach filled with unchewed food, excess air, which can cause the stomach to then twist, which cuts off the blood supply to the gut. Again, we see that kind of pot bellied appearance. You might see things like rapid breathing, drooling, pain to touch the abdomen and collapse. And bloat is, as I say, it's common, but it's life threatening. So, you know, we're really looking at, if we do have a dog that is quite a quick eater and constantly wanting to gulp their food down, then we might look at options like slow feeders or you know, kind of giving them their meals in enrichment games, so some scent based games or enrichment boxes and of course waiting at least 30 minutes after or before exercise for them to eat.

I was actually gonna make a silly little kind of joke off the back of that going, I've got human friends that I didn't. You know, when you said it's life threatening, that that had never even occurred. It was one of those things that it's just like, oh yeah, dog eats a bit fast, you know, yeah, it.

Gets a bit bloated.

Never occurred. It's actually something that's genuinely like, needs to be taken really seriously.

Absolutely. And that's the thing because obviously humans experience bloat as well where we kind of do have that kind of pot bellied appearance. And it's not super, you know, it's not really that problematic. Although a bit uncomfor comfortable. But yeah, it's a common one for dogs. And like I say it is potentially life threatening because that whole stomach twists. So it's not the same as, as what we see in humans. So yeah, it's something to, to be mindful of.

That's really interesting. What, what other kind of things should we be looking out for then? So in terms of kind of, you know, behavioral changes, that might be an indication that there's something else going on. What, what, what, what the common kind of signs.

Yeah, so the, the most common that you'll see is joint issues. Arthritis. Super, super common in dogs and not just in older dogs. We see, you know, early onset arthritis in, in young dogs as well. So if we're seeing, you know, potential joint issues, then the most common behavioral changes that you'll generally see are this kind of refusal to walk. You know, I get a lot of clients get in touch to say I can't walk my dog. They won't go outside. You know, sometimes it's behavioral, sometimes maybe they're anxious or there's, there's a bit more going on. Sometimes it's medical. They don't want to walk because they're in pain in the same way that, that we wouldn't. So you might see what kind of people label stubborn and dogs not wanting to walk. We might see, as I mentioned earlier, this kind of sensitivity to being touched. So you know, we're going to stroke our dog. We might see something as simple as them just getting up and moving away. Choosing avoidance or the more aggressive type behaviors where we're seeing this kind of grumbling, the growling and potentially the biting depending on how severe the pain is. We might also see kind of changes in relationship between the family members and the dog. So for example, if you have a dog that generally likes to come and cuddle up and sleep with you, if they're in pain, you might start to notice that they do that a lot less and they kind of just go and sleep on their own and maybe go into a different room. Because we can sometimes also see noise sensitivities in dogs that are in pain. So they kind of will seek out this More quiet area where they're less likely to be disturbed and there's less noise.

Yeah, that's interesting. That's interesting. I wanted to ask quite specifically here with regards to kind of vision problems, hearing loss. What, what are the kind of behavioral signs? And I mean, I guess in a lot of ways I'm asking particularly with hearing, I guess it's, you know, you would imagine it's fairly obvious in terms of you shout, your dog doesn't respond. But you know, what, what kind of behavioral things should be looking for that are indicating there might be issues going on with regards to sight and.

Yeah, vision and hearing loss. That's a difficult one because like you said earlier, our dogs can't communicate. They can't tell us that, you know, I can't see very well or I can't hear you very well. So for the most part in the early days of potential vision or hearing loss, it can go unnoticed by most people because it's not really something that we're generally looking for on a day to day basis. We might notice sometimes some physical changes. So we might see things like the pupils not responding to changes in light. Maybe the eyes can kind of go a bit milky or a bit cloudy or we can kind of see like a bulging eye, which is probably the most obvious sign. But yeah, in terms of behavioral change. So if we have a dog that is potentially losing their sight or losing their hearing, then we might see them kind of move around and walk a little bit more slowly. Again, we might see that refusal to go on walks. We see that a lot, especially at night time because they're more vulnerable. They can't see as well when it's dark. Again, same in humans. Eyesight is horrendous at night time. So yeah, but maybe refusal to walk or moving a little bit more slowly, we might see general kind of clumsiness. So bumping into things around the home. You might also see that increase in aggression, reactivity. Again, again, especially at night time when they're feeling a little bit more vulnerable. You can sometimes see kind of general just whininess around the house. Maybe things like becoming easily startled or some kind of confusion or disorientation. Some of the, I think the more obvious ones can be kind of this inability to locate food or toys. You maybe see them searching a little bit more and maybe like glossing over the food or the toy. With hearing in particular, you might also see especially in the dogs with the quite alert ears, you know, your shepherds, for example, you might see a lack of ear movement because they're just not picking up on the sounds like they normally would or just general ignorant behavior. You know, you might be trying to ask them to do something and they're generally just ignoring you. But it could be that they're maybe not hearing you very well.

I, I imagine that must happen so often where people just think, oh, my dog's just been a pain. And actually there could be something deeper there. So it's, it's, it's worth reaffirming that and, and just putting that thought into people's minds. Let's, let's talk about diet then. Let's talk about, I mean, particularly raw. Where does that fit into this? How does, how does a raw diet make a difference?

Yeah, so this is quite an exciting topic, to be honest, because there's a lot of new research into feeding a raw diet over the last few years due to the increase in popularity in feeding raw. So it's, it's quite exciting. And ultimately, you know, we look at a raw diet and we think of it as the most kind of natural, unprocessed diet for our dogs. It isn't full of kind of all of this, these poor quality ingredients that you kind of get in most kibble foods. Some of the common benefits that we can see, so health benefits that we can see feeding a raw diet are things like a shinier coat or healthier skin, which obviously we've seen, we discussed with Harley. And this can be down to the higher quality proteins in the raw diet. You might also see things like improved dental health. So for example, you know, chewing on the, the raw bones within the raw food is quite nice for preventing plaque buildup, which is obviously good for teeth, good for the gums. And we also see things like smaller and less frequent stool, which is quite nice for us humans that have to pick it up. But that's just down to the, the lack of waste in the food. The dog's body is using everything that it needs, so there's less waste, therefore less, less poops. And then some more recent research, this is the most exciting part, is that there's a lot of new research on how a raw diet might be effective in management of some more severe medical issues. So things like gastrointestinal dysfunction or, you know, there's potential for improved immune system. So a dog's immune system, or 80% of it, is located in the intestinal tract wall. So then we have to think about how, you know, food is being processed in the body. There's potential there that the diet could have a major impact on immunity. That research is still really early days, so there's no 100% link between it. But it's interesting the potential that's there for, you know, the impact of a raw diet on immunity.

That is very interesting. And, and I guess we're still early days then in terms of figuring out exactly what that means and, and, and what, what could come from, from, from that people that, that are engaged with this feed and watching this and listening to this probably already on this. In terms of the fact that there's a fair chance that they're already, you're kind of on a, a raw diet. I, I don't want to ask this in terms of too basic a question, but it's going to come out as, as that, you know, with all the research that's knocking around and stuff now, how, how certain are we in terms of the fact that, you know, what you feed your dog makes a difference to its health, its well being ultimately, you know, kind of diseases, illnesses, things like that, you know, kind of what you feed. There is a, there's a correlation there.

Yeah. I mean that is difficult to, to kind of quantify, isn't it? Because if we look at the more serious medical issues, you know, it's potential prevention. So we might not necessarily see how the diet is impacting your specific dog. You know, we look at things like cancers and you know, go down that route. You wouldn't know because you couldn't, you couldn't confirm that they would or wouldn't get cancer dependent on the, the diet that you were feeding them. But you know, it's the same in, in humans and there's been a, obviously a lot more research for, for humans, you know, eating a processed, a heavily processed diet and the link that can have on cancer and it's potentially the same in dogs as well. You know, dog owners that feed a raw diet might see, as I mentioned, those more common health benefits. So better skin, better coat, better teeth. But generally, just considering the quality of the ingredients, it's the same with humans. You eat better, you feel better, you're healthier. But yeah, I mean, like I say, it's early days, so it's interesting, it's something for everybody to be aware of to just keep checking the research and, and see what comes back.

Nikki, we're out of time. I could sit here all afternoon chatting away tons of other things that be really interesting to, to ask you about. But thank you very much for, for joining us. It's been a real pleasure. Some really interesting stuff in there. I think the research stuff sounds really exciting and just on the c. Some. Some. Some really interesting stuff to come from that. So that's. That's awesome. Thank you for your time today.

Yeah, thank you very much for having me on.

Well, that wraps up this episode of Life. Well loved. Thank you very much for listening. You can find out more about us@bellaandjuke.com and don't forget to hit follow so you get all our new episodes every fortnight. Thanks for listening. I look forward to seeing you again soon.