All right.

Picture this.

What if you could take the most nutrient packed superfoods on

the planet, foods that have fueled humans for centuries and

actually make them taste great and amazing, make it easy to eat.

That's usually pretty impossible.

But my guest today, James Berry, crack that code.

He used to be a celebrity chef cooked for people

like George Clooney, Tom Cruise, and so many others.

And he realized that this ancient way of eating is

actually the way to go in this modern way we're all living.

Uh, diets are kind of, they're really bad, you know,

they're all over the place, but like, uh, you know, we

break it down on this podcast.

So you're going to get a mix of diets and how to use this

ancestral way of eating that James talks about and has now built

this brand called Pluck Around.

We'll dig into that.

But why it's going to help you as an entrepreneur, as a human

to feel better, make better decisions, have a more longevity

in anything you're doing.

But James also breaks down his, his reinventions throughout

all of his years, even before being a celebrity chef.

It's an awesome story of how he even got into that.

So he's going to break it down and they give you a path to try

some of this stuff out yourself.

He's also hooking you up with a pretty cool discount.

To his products at pluck.

Just go to hustle and flow chart.

com slash P L U C K. Good.

Try them out.

It's awesome.

I recommend them.

Uh, and you're going to love James.

So let's get into the episode.

All right, James, we're doing this.

I appreciate you for making the time today.

And, um, I guess we'll just start off.

How are you feeling today?

You know, are you, are you feeling pretty good?

Uh, you know, just, um, I shouldn't answer that for you.

How are you doing?

I'm actually, I'm feeling really, uh, taken care of.

There's, there's been a lot of learnings, um, probably some of the

biggest learnings I've had in the four years of the business, uh, that

started at the end of 2024 and going into this year, it's kind of like

the learnings are like, what got you here is not going to get you there.

It's that kind of learnings.

And, um, and I'm feeling when they first came up, I was like, Oh, I

was feeling like, like I was slowly, you know, falling to the bottom of

the ocean, you know, weighted down.

why?

Hello.

But, uh, but, but now I'm like, Oh, I'm being lifted up.

There's, there's so many people that are available and that are really

helping to be guides and mentors.

And, uh, so I feel very, very blessed and taken care of.

that's big.

And as an entrepreneur of any sort, I mean, you are in the food

space, culinary space, uh, you know, a lot of us work alone, or

at least we feel like we're alone.

So.

It's interesting because you were telling me you've had

some perspective shifts and, you know, you've had some

outside perspective shifts.

Do you have some internal as well?

Or like, do you reflect, uh, like, do you have a process for that?

I mean, I, I'm definitely aware of it.

I, I think that, um, There's definitely an aspect of,

uh, imposter syndrome.

I've never run a CPG company.

So that's that right there kind of supports imposter syndrome

when you're entering a field that you're not as familiar with.

But I'm also very determined and I'm feeling scrappy.

And I'm just like, you know, I am gonna, I'm going to figure this out.

And, you know, I think I'm able to, at my age to reflect

back at my life and go, okay, well I've, I've done like, you

know, four or five marathons.

I've done a triathlon.

Like I got through that.

I could do this and I'm a father and I'm a husband of 13 years.

You're like, it's like, okay, I've endured a long,

long term relationship.

I'm, I have kids that are healthy and happy and I'm

like, okay, I've done that.

You know?

So I'm just kind of like, I'm trying to take.

wherever I can, um, and apply them when I am feeling kind of less

than, or when I am feeling like there's a mountain in front of me.

You know, I'll share, this is really interesting, just gives

an example, a model of how I'm pulling from everything.

But like, it's snowing right now where I live.

Yeah.

not literally snow, but there's snow on the ground.

And, and I walk my daughter, my youngest daughter to

school, uh, every weekday.

And we walk sometimes through a forest and I sometimes wear

these shoes that really kind of slip in the snow, but I noticed

that if I walk through a forest.

In the footprints of people that came before

me, I don't slip as much.

And I was applying, I was even taking from that going like,

Oh, that's a, that's a, that's a business mantra right there.

It's like, don't feel like you have to create your own footsteps.

Like there's plenty of people that have come before me.

I can just see what they did, replicate it and apply

it to my business and just step in their footsteps.

It's still my footstep.

Hmm.

But I don't have to reinvent.

I like

I don't have to go it alone.

Ooh.

Yeah.

I can relate both.

Uh, you know, specifically to the scenario you're talking about.

I mean, I'm in San Diego, it doesn't snow much.

It might though.

I just snowed in Florida.

Who knows?

So, but, um, yeah, but I know the fact that I know you said

like, you know, I'm, I've slipped many times because I don't

experience snow much, but walking in footsteps, you're right.

It's easier.

But at the same time, yeah, a lot of us in business just

feel like we're, we're kind of lone soldiers going out for it.

You know, we know what's best or maybe we were imposter

syndrome stops us from asking questions or asking for help.

I know that's a pretty common one.

I see it in my mastermind of like high level entrepreneurs every

time and they even admit it like, yeah, I don't like to ask for help

or it just doesn't feel right.

That, I will say, is not my issue.

And it's because I, I, I did have a business that I did go alone

a lot and I Then I didn't ask as many questions and I and I and I

felt the negative effects of that.

I felt the isolation.

I felt the the kind of suppression Hardship that I created

from not asking questions.

So I I'm very like I entered this business that i'm currently in the

um I entered it very conscious of making sure that the business plan

was also included in my health plan.

I, I was like, very aware of like, hey, our schedules are fictional,

like this idea that we have to do this ABC is, is completely false.

It's all made up because you can go around the world and you can

see the work week, the hours, the work day and the work week are

completely different depending on what country you're in.

So there is no streamed, like everyone has to do this.

It's particularly if you're working in e commerce, it's what you

create and what you communicate.

So I was very aware of that.

And then the third thing was that I, I was very aware that, um, that

I was going to enter this learning, like, like, like in a learning

mode of like, I was going to ask questions and I was not going

to fake it till I make it, I was going to be very, very transparent.

About that process.

But what's interesting is by, by having even that clarity of those

points I just made, it also helps me be more clear with my instincts.

Like I'm very, I'm like, I'm like, my ears are primed.

So I'm very like, I'm listening.

I'm looking for signs.

I'm looking for clarity, but I'm also coming at it

from a heart center place.

Yeah.

You're grounded.

Yeah, so I'm grounded and open

Yeah, that's cool.

I just interviewed a gentleman, Kevin Surace.

He's a big, you know, he has like 94 patents and, you know,

one of the things he said was like, I just have to expand, you

know, put myself in a good joyous place, you know, finding joy, but

that allows him to be more open to the possibilities and you can

solve better problems that way or problems people don't normally see.

It kind of sounds like what you've done, you know, you've

allowed yourself to get that guidance and yeah, not hack

it alone Which is so common.

and what I'm also learning.

This is a slight step away from business, but it, I think it, it

will serve everyone is that, um, I'm also learning, well, we'll taking

what he said, like, so tapping the joy, but how do you tap the joy?

Like how, how, how do you co create an environment where you

can, can, you can tap joy and I'm finding what helps the most is

routine and making sure that that routine has exercise or movement.

to it because that does co create joy when it creates

happiness because the endorphins from working out Actually

chemically create happiness.

So like building that routine, I wake up at the same time every day.

I work out at the same time every day and I go to sleep

at the same time every day.

And that routine is absolutely made a huge difference in

not only my state of mind, but also getting shit done.

Yeah.

No, absolutely If you're not routine with something that you

can control like that Then like how can you how can you adapt

to the world around you that's constantly in motion, you know,

And it just, and that's the, that's the trick, right?

Everyone thinks like, Oh, like if I reach, reach this level

of success, then it's, it's not going to be as chaotic.

It's like, no, it is.

You just have new problems.

Like you don't reach, there isn't a point where you're, you're like, Oh,

you're just gliding and you're just like, Oh, like business is so easy.

It's like, it's just new problems.

Yeah, you never made it, right?

Like there's no making it like you might find that summit that peak,

but then you're like, guess what?

There's a ton more.

It keeps going.

And that's the

really does.

There's, there's always something to learn.

You know, you have a really interesting background.

I want to get into because there's a lot of different angles.

We'll explore here.

And I like what we've already gone, James.

And, you know, you've been in food for a lot of

years, you celebrity chef.

And I'm sure you did some stuff before that.

I want to learn about because and then, you know, you've

obviously Now, CPG, you have your own products pluck, you know,

so I'll just shout it out now eat pluck is, um, you know, the

domain actually, you hooked us up with the cool coupon code.

So I'll, we'll mention that in a little bit.

But, um, yeah, I want to really set the stage because you've

been in food for a long time.

You've worked with a ton of celebrities or, you know,

cook food for them, probably educated them on some stuff.

Maybe they haven't known about, you know, people like what George

Clooney, Barbara Streisand, you know, some pretty large names.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Tom Cruise pretty large.

So I guess I, I'm curious, uh, what was your experience

with food growing up?

You know, it sounds like there was a switch that happened and

I'm, I'm curious, you know, why food, and, and why do you

go down this, this journey?

Yeah.

It's interesting.

I, I, my mom always laughs.

She's like, I don't know how I got a chef for a son because in

the household I grew up in, you knew dinner was ready because

the smoke detector went off.

Like yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

what's she doing?

The cooking or your

Oh, she was doing the cooking and you know, she

grew up in, um, culture.

It's like where you, you cook things to death, you overcook them to

make sure there was no pathogens.

Like that's how she was raised.

So like hamburgers, we dubbed them hockey pucks.

Like that's, they were that hard.

You could throw them against the wall and they'd bounce right

back at you like a Frisbee.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But, uh, but so to this day, it was like, It's like how

how did I get in this field?

But there was something there's some spark that happened when I first

learned how to scramble an egg and I think for me What didn't put me down

that path when I was a young kid was that I didn't see it As a job,

I didn't see it as a career path.

It's easy to for people to think that the culinary fields have always

been about celebrities and game shows and food shows and all that

stuff, but it's like You Bad stuff did not exist in the seventies.

It's like I grew up, there was two cooking shows

that I remember as a kid.

There might've only been one at the time, but when I was

watching TV in my middle school age years, I remember too.

And it was Julia Childs and it was the frugal gourmet.

Those were the two I remember.

And they were both on PBS.

Like that's it.

There was nothing else

Wow.

and so the path for you know Cooking was was you have to own a restaurant

and I was like, I don't want to do that My dad owned a grocery store

and he would work these long hours and I just remember like I remember

a certain point in my life where I would go to bed and he wasn't home

and I would wake up and he wasn't home So he had come home and slept

in between those two times and uh You know, I was a sensitive kid.

So I was like, I don't, I don't want to do that.

And, and it wasn't until it really wasn't until nine 11 that I, that I

re looked at my life and I was like, okay, life is life is precious.

Uh, I feel like that was our generations, um,

Pearl Harbor, you know?

So I was like, I need to make sure that every decision I make

henceforth is really heart centered.

It's coming from a place of mission and wanting and

why I'm here on this earth.

And so I was at the time I was substitute teaching are kind of

working in the education system.

And I was, uh, in Hollywood system.

I was an actor and working in that arena and I liked

the art of creative Uh, creating things from scratch.

I love the creativity that came with, uh, the film and TV

business, but I didn't like the, I didn't really enjoy the, the

LA school system, the LA unified.

And so I was kind of like, well, what do I, what do I want to do?

And I, and I looked back, well, what did I love as a kid?

And it was cooking.

So I then switched gears, went to culinary school, came out of

culinary school and, and how I think we all know when we've tapped

something, tapped in this, uh, maybe a source that's bigger than

us is, is this what's happened?

This is what happened for me as an actor.

I was working so hard.

I was putting out 200 percent and I maybe got back 30%.

And that's,

back meeting in, in terms of like what financial money

financial or, or, um, opportunity, anything like, uh,

I, I had to really create my own opportunity in that field.

It, it did not come effortlessly.

And I think most actors and people in entertainment experience that.

Um, but what's interesting is they just don't have.

The contrast.

So then when I moved towards the culinary field, I put out a

hundred percent, I got back 200 percent the manifestation that

happened was off the charts.

I would literally, I mean, Joe is crazy.

I would literally think I want to cook for rock bands.

A week, two weeks later, I would get a call.

Hey, do you want to be the, the vegan chef on the Vans Warped Tour?

Where you, you know, you tour for 60 days, uh, around the U S and Canada

and you cook for over 200 bands.

And I was like, okay, like, like it was like, it was, it was so fast.

And, and, and there was true manifestation happening.

So I, I felt like, okay, I'm, I'm onto something here.

And, um, And then, and then it took me to the path of

eventually starting a meal delivery service to then

eventually starting a CBG company.

Okay.

That's, that's a cool path.

And I love, so it sounds like you've been tapped in and

kind of this grounded feeling throughout the whole thing.

And yeah.

Okay.

So was there, I'm curious on the food side specifically, like,

So you said scrambled an egg.

That was like the aha moment.

Yeah.

And you, you weren't raised in a, in a home where, you know, it

was a different style of cooking.

Like, was there a, cause I thought I read you were kind

of a picky eater as well.

Like, and yeah, yeah.

Like, was there a

I was a very picky eater.

I didn't have my first taco till I was in college.

If we went to, and I grew up in California, right?

So that's a big deal.

That is I'm in San Diego.

So I know.

Yeah.

Yeah, you know, San Diego is such good Mexican food.

Um, uh, I would, we would go to a Mexican restaurant when

I was a kid and I would order a hamburger, like that's how

You're one of those guys.

I was bad and I wouldn't even eat the hamburger.

I was paleo before it even, there was even a word for it.

So when I was a kid and we'd be going on our road trips,

most people back then, of course, stopped at fast food.

And so we would stop at like, McDonald's and it would always

take us longer because I would not eat a burger as it was like

I didn't like, I still don't like ketchup and condiments on my burger.

Um, and I didn't like meat and bread.

Uh

I, so what they would get is they would have to order a plain burger

and then I would get it and I would pull the meat out from the

bread and pretend I was eating because I didn't want to be freaky.

Right?

So I was pretending I was eating it and then it

crumpled up and throw it away.

So I was only eating meat from a burger and nothing else.

Paleo style.

in 10, 10 burgers, right?

God, if I had just known that was paleo, I could have, you know,

been there before someone else.

Yeah, it's all marketing, man.

But yeah, well, I'm curious, like with the, you know,

with the celebrity thing.

Uh, so it sounds like there was probably a crossover from when he

did some stuff in Hollywood, you know, maybe you kind of learned,

maybe there's a little network there, um, don't really want to go

down that so much, but I'm curious if there were some learnings, you

know, when you're with celebrities, like, you know, I guess both ways.

Like, was there some teaching that you were doing to them

about food or were you learning from those experiences that

you were able to take away?

It was pretty cool actually.

Um, you know, I was in my thirties when I went to culinary school.

So I was not a young pup and, and I wasn't easily swayed.

I got into it very clear and like, I, I, this is what I want to do.

And I want to help people.

Like I want to work.

One on one and help people with their health.

So the school I went to in New York that doesn't exist anymore,

it very much kind of fused nutrition and culinary school.

So you, you not only were learning how to cook things, but you

were learning why that cooking method was important or why that

preparation helped to make it more digestible and more, more nutrient.

or bio available.

So it was, it was very all encompassing around health.

And it was a school where a lot of, uh, people looking for private

chefs were reaching out to.

Now, I didn't know that when I signed up, but I got all of my

first two years of jobs from referrals from the school.

And that was because of how I showed up.

So I also was like, Some kids were at right out of high school and they

would like not show up they were like excited to be in new york and

just kind of Fluffing it off and I was like no i'm i'm here like i'm

here to learn and i'm only here to learn and so I showed Up every day

and the school noticed that and I worked hard and they were like, oh

well We know we can depend on him.

So that was a huge for me and I got so many referrals but when

I The story that I had with my very first Private client kind of

tells you a little bit about how it was with all of my clients.

So here it was 30.

I had just externed at a rehab center in Malibu.

And they offered me a job as, as a assistant to the chef there.

And it only was going to pay 9 an hour.

So here I was 30 years old, looking at 9.

Now I was making 27 an hour substitute teaching.

So it shows you how far I had fallen financially by just changing

careers and how, um, at the time the culinary arts really didn't,

they still don't pay very well.

Um, so I was I was, I mean, I was crying when I, when I got

offered that job, I was like, I can't survive off of this.

And this isn't, this is, this isn't what I got in here to do.

And then I got a call.

And it was the assistant of this, uh, CBS newscaster,

fairly big name back in the day.

And, They were like, Hey, we're looking for a private chef.

You come referred by the school.

Um, we are looking for someone to calorie count, to do low

fat, to do this, to do that.

And I was like, I heard them talk and I was like, that's not me.

I'm sorry.

I don't think I can deliver for you.

And here I was though, needing this job.

And I still did not.

Waiver from what I believe was right and, uh, so I just

said, I don't think I'm the right person for the job.

That's not what I do.

And she then said, well, what do you do?

And I shared, I said, well, I don't, I don't believe we

need to calorie count when we focus on quality of product.

I believe if everything's made from scratch and I'm

controlling ingredients.

That not only will, will the client feel more satiated,

they won't feel a craving for outside foods because the foods

I'm giving them is so nutrient dense that it's satiating them.

And, um, and I, and I also believe that I could create a balance of,

because most foods we purchase when they're ultra processed,

they're extreme, they're extremely salty or they're extremely sweet.

And when you can make things from scratch and control the

ingredients, you could find a balance and, and if you ever learn

about my macrobiotic, uh, diets or that eating, they, they do that.

They talk about if you balance sweetness with savory,

that you actually don't crave sweetness as much.

You just need a hint.

You don't need a lot.

And so it's really just about that balance.

And, and so I just explained it and I talked from my heart and

at the end of it, she said, Well, we'll do what you said and and she

was my she was my first private client She I had her for two

years and um, it was a fantastic relationship and she absolutely

achieved everything She wanted and and and from that moment on that's

how I entered every situation.

So even tom's people even um Even Gerard, but like, like they,

their people would say, well, this is how he wants to eat.

And I'd be like, really?

And then I would just ask him, I'd be like, Tom, is

this how you want to eat?

Cause I didn't treat them differently.

I treated them just like I would talking to you.

It's like, and I think that's why they liked me.

I was a, I was, I, I honored their privacy and B I didn't

treat them like celebrities.

I treated them like people.

And then I came with an expertise.

I wasn't just this like, Oh, I'll cook whatever you want.

And he's like, well.

I want to, I'm going to make food that's clean and that,

that serves you emotionally, but also satiate you physically.

You're true to yourself and you're taking that and I could

see everyone loving that.

you know, that, that connection

And that, well, that's also, that's why my, my resume started

to build is because people were seeing such results.

And I, to this day, I'm like, look, there's trends, man.

When I entered, Culinary when I started private chefing the big

book at the time was called a fat flush diet And I have in my 20 years

as a professional chef I have seen trends come and go but the one that

i've always is my north star that never changes Is just eat real food.

yeah, for sure.

That's it.

and you talk a lot about ancestral eating and you know, like just

really like, like you say, the clean foods, there's a, I think a

lot of more talk about processed foods now and people are starting to

kind of understand what's in those.

And there's all these different, you know, all sorts of toxins

that come along with that as well.

But like, what's the, I guess, what's the real cost if you were to

think, of that and the disconnection from eating ancestrally.

Like, with some of the stuff you're doing at Pluck, for

instance, with organ meats.

Like what's the disconnect in our modern times from

not eating these ways?

Yeah, and what's, what's the cost to us?

Because it seems like we're just, like you mentioned, we're

craving sweets or salties.

So, it just seems like that just throws everything off,

you know, in the terms, like, how we feel, how we're eating.

I think the cost is that what was it just four years ago,

maybe five Uh the the It was the first time in a very long

time where, where the mortality rate had actually increased.

So, so meaning that people were dying.

At a younger age than ever and I think that's you know, we talk

a lot about in the industry is uh Kids are canaries in the coal

mine if you know that reference

Oh, yeah.

You know, you bring a canary into the coal mine to give you

warning if there's there's uh, the air quality has changed

They're kind of leading the way.

Yeah, and and we're seeing it.

I mean we're seeing huge health chronic health issues across the

board And, uh, it's absolutely tapped in to the choices we're

making and not just, uh, choices that we're putting in our body

choices as a nation, as a, as a, as a globe, as a earth, like air

quality choices, uh, water quality choices, soil quality, quality

choices, which all then lead to food choices, which then lead

to the choices we make that for the things that go in our mouth.

I think that, um, I think that we are.

Absolutely at a place where I believe, and I even started a

podcast called everyday incestual, but I believe that looking to

the past that previously, I think we looked to the past and we

thought we have to get back there.

And it's like, well, that doesn't make sense.

Cause we live in modern times.

We have technology.

Like, why would we try to go back?

backwards.

And I think that's the big mind shift mistake we've made is that

it's not about going backwards.

It's about taking the best from the past and bringing it to our present

so that we have a better future.

And so that's why I now look at Ancestral foods.

So it's not about like, Oh, I'm supposed to only eat and such foods.

I suppose like there's the liver King and you're just supposed

to eat testicles and raw livers.

And it's like, that's not realistic.

Like I'll even share like one of the best diets I've

ever done in my 20 years.

And I did, I've tried a lot.

The best one I ever did was it's called raw primal.

And it's eating raw meat, raw products like raw dairy,

raw, raw meat, anything raw.

It, I felt the best I've ever felt.

I've heard that actually.

I've, I've heard of some folks trying this and I was

like, you gotta be kidding me,

It's incredible.

And you don't get sick if you're eating from quality ounce.

But here's the thing.

Why am I not eating that way now?

It's because it's not practical.

Like you can't go to parties.

You can't go up, you, what are you going to eat?

You know, uh, What, what is the, the, um, you know, raw

fish every time you eat out or something, or, you know, you just

like, like life is for living.

And I think when we create too many limitations, it's like you

become Brian Johnson, that guy that's advertising is like, you

know, like you become this kind of like very two dimensional person.

It's like, I, I, I want to be connected.

I want to feel connected to the people around me.

I want to inspire and I want to grow and learn.

And I just, I don't think you can do that when you're inside, you're

boxed in, but it was the best diet,

Yeah.

mean we should all be doing it.

Well, and I mean, isn't that the thing with diets too, right?

They're, they're fads.

It's, it's almost like if you cannot sustain something

for let's call it life.

I mean, a long period of time.

Then you're, it's kind of, I don't know if it's any good for you.

Maybe it's even worse.

Maybe you have some perspective on that.

I think you tapped it.

It's like, I, I have in my career, I've always looked for this.

It's like, I'm not looking for the magic pill or the quick fix.

I'm looking for the thing I can sustain.

Um, I always laugh because, you know, and maybe I'm revealing

my age, but it's like back in the day there was that

Suzanne Summers Thighmaster

Yeah.

I remember that I had one as a kid.

Parents did.

everyone had one.

And it's like, but it's also the thing that is at every yard

sale, maybe not so much, but whatever, 10, 10 years ago,

it was, you know what I mean?

It was at every yard sale.

And it's like, dude, like clearly that was a fad.

That was a trend.

And it's like.

I don't, I just, I don't want the thigh master of food.

Like I don't want the thigh master of diet books.

I don't, I don't want that.

I just, I just want things that are going to be easily sustainable.

If we have COVID 5.

0, it's like, I can still keep doing it.

Cause that's, you know, if anything, look at any, Epidemic or disaster.

It's like, what is the thing that you keep doing when you're

in a high emotional state?

That's what sustainability is.

So what I've found in my career, that it has, at least

if it's a food, it's got to encompass two qualities.

It's got to be both of them delicious and easy,

but if you hit easy and delicious, In a health food.

So clearly something that's there to support your health and that

desired outcome Then it's something you can sustain no matter what

is going on emotionally in your life Because why would you stop

it tastes good and it's easy to eat or to get into your body?

Well,

That's actually a great metaphor.

You can apply in so many ways of life, but food starting

here, it's most obvious.

And yeah, it's kind of like what you mentioned earlier.

You got the salty and sweet spectrum, right?

That a lot of processed foods are going either which way, either far

end of the spectrum, but really you can just kind of dash it with both

of those and kind of get that fill.

It seems like, yeah.

don't always think about this, but so there's the four tastes

that we, that we were introduced when we were young kids, right?

Salty, sweet, bitter, sour, right?

Well, there's a fifth called umami.

What a lot of people don't realize is that.

If you think about it, why is someone picky?

Like, why was I picky as a kid?

Well, there's emotional reasons.

Like sometimes your life is in state unstable.

And so what you're choosing to enter your mouth is the

only thing you can control.

And so that's, that's part of it.

It, there can be an emotional element.

We now also have to include, and back then we did not include this.

So this is also answering that question of like,

what's changed, but now you also have to include like.

Chemical differences, like is someone, is someone, um, uh,

autistic is, is someone have some kind of difference going

on inside their body that makes them very highly sensitive to

texture and flavor from someone that's not in that state.

Right?

So now you have to include that part.

Category, but then the other category is just that, well, our

palates are, it's a physical thing.

The palate is something that exists and has existed for

hundreds of thousands of years to achieve two things

to make sure that either we're nourished or that we don't die.

So like, if you think about it, these, this kind of communication

pathway that happens in our mouth established, whether we lived

or died back in the day, right, is this food I'm about to eat

going to kill me or nourish me.

And so it's so important when we're looking at how do we

make someone more adventurous?

How do we like, um, get someone to be more nourished is you

think about like, well, what.

Look at what they're currently eating.

If they're eating the standard American diet, the primary

flavors are salt and sweet, right?

So that means that their palate is off.

It's, it's, it's skewed.

If those were colors, it's skewed towards blue and green.

We need to bring more yellow and red into it.

And that's this, the, the sour and, and the, um, the bitter,

And then umami is a fifth kind

And then mommy's the fifth that brings it all together.

So, so that's kind of like, it can sometimes be that easy by

just pull, like change, shifting, pulling out some of those salty and

sweet foods and really heightening more of those other foods.

And sometimes it can be really gradual.

That's the other thing that I've learned.

Over my 20 years is that, you know, this idea in America

of like, go big or go home.

Like, you know, I'm American.

I drive a big truck, you know, that kind of concept.

It's like, like we've, we've seen it.

We've existed in this place of like, we go all in.

I work hard.

I play hard.

You know, that mentality of like, actually that is

not how human nature works.

How human nature works is the things that are actually

lifestyle are the things we only do little amounts of a day.

Like if brushing our teeth took two hours, I guarantee we have

some funky teeth out there,

very good point.

right?

It's like it works because it's a small amount of time.

You know, we did a couple times a day, but it's for small amounts.

And so I've really come to realize that the way to tap into human

nature and to work with human nature rather than against it

is actually to really focus on micro dosing or micro amounts.

And then focus on duration.

So micro mounts frequently.

Equals cumulative effect, but when you do that, like, like, that's

how I think of the product pluck.

Actually.

It's like, I think of it like if we're, if that life is the

faucet and our bodies are the sponge, when the faucet has

a drip of water, it comes in.

It, the, the sponge, it gets, the entire drop gets, it

gets absorbed by that sponge.

But if I open that faucet up, the in, in tons of that water comes

on that sponge, there's all this other water that drips down.

And that's what we're seeing right now in this mentality

of go big or go home.

So we're seeing that, for example, in supplements, when

people overdose on supplements, they're just peeing it out.

And that's why we call it, Oh, you're just, it's expensive pee.

Yeah, it's true.

It's happening all the time and just people don't realize it

That's a great analogy again.

Yeah, I love the analogy.

It's the sponge analogy and how it all absorbs because

it's absolutely correct.

I mean, just try it, but how much waste and how much, uh,

just overdone ness, whatever is happening, you can apply

it in a lot of places.

And that brings me to, you know, because you obviously have your

brand Pluck and it's all about organ meats and you mentioned your

podcast, uh, and everything's based in this ancestral, uh, concept

of these eating, uh, habits or behaviors, why organ meats and,

you know, like what was, was there a switch or something where you

realized it's, it's that like, were you feeling something or a scenario?

Well, the switch was being a coming a father that that's hands down

like I knew about organ meats Uh when I went to culinary school, I

I learned about um weston a price There's a book called nourishing

traditions and they talked all about traditional foods the importance of

of how it's prepared the importance of um, Organ meats eating whole

animal and raw milk and all these different things and why and so

I knew about it then but I didn't grow up doing that and what, what

I think a lot of times why we struggle to incorporate anything

is that unfamiliarity, like we don't have practice of doing it.

We have to have more routine with it.

I didn't have that.

And so I struggled to get organ meats into my diet.

And, um, And then I had kids and I was like, okay, like I want to be

around to watch my kids grow up.

And I also want to, just like every other parent out

there, I want my kids to be healthy, thriving, and happy.

So what foods are going to support that for both of us?

And then I just did some searching on the internet.

So not internal searching, but like searching on the

internet and anyone can do this.

And it's like, what are the most nutrient dense foods?

And every, every indicator came back, Orgamese.

And normally it would say beef liver, but I have actually

expanded way beyond that now.

Um, and why do they focus on Orgamese?

Well, of all, if you think about what's in a prenatal, like what

science is telling you, this is what you need to create life.

If you look at the list of vitamins and minerals, it's all an orgamy.

And what's sad to me is that when we slaughter that cow,

which is really, I mean, like, I'm not, I'm not inhumane.

Like, I believe that is, that's something we need to honor.

Like, we just took a life, but we took that life to feed us.

And that's always going to be the case.

Even if you're vegan, there's still something dying when

those plants are being harvested to feed you, right?

For us to live, something dies.

That's just.

Across the board.

And if anyone doesn't believe that, I think you need to look,

look a little deeper because it talked to a farmer and they will

tell you talk to a monocrop farmer and they will tell you it's, it's

like a frickin horror show when they plow those soybean fields,

all the different animals, insects and critters that are housed

in those fields get decimated.

So something dies.

about that, but you're right.

There's all this death happening.

Always, always.

It's just, it's whether you just want to admit it or not.

Right.

But so there's always something's dying to feed us.

But when we slaughter a cow, we are currently For most slaughterhouses.

We're only using 50 of that cow.

This is a business podcast what business would take Their resources

only use 50 of them like that.

That would be the worst business plan in the entire world So

we are right now wasting about 50 percent of that animal.

So to me, one of the most planetary things we could do is just start

eating whole animal because what's happening is we're only

utilizing 50 percent of the animal.

The most nutritious part of the animal is getting trashed.

And then what are we doing?

Well, we're nutrient deficient.

It's like a 2015 study, um, came to about 92 percent of

Americans are nutrient deficient.

And we're in 2025 now.

So that's probably close to 94%, right?

So if 94 percent of America is a nutrient deficient, but

we're not calorie deficient because we're an obese nation,

Yeah, that's true.

then what's the issue?

It's clearly the food choices we're making.

Well, We're, we're trashing the most nutritious part of the animal.

And then what do we do?

We turn around and we buy, uh, we feed a 50 billion industry

of supplements to try to, you know, compensate for what we

didn't get from what we ate.

And to me, that's, that's madness.

Ooh, it is.

And there's so much waste.

So it's not just that part, you know, and it doesn't, it's not

honoring the animal just in that, that whole side of things, but

it's not even honoring ourselves.

And, you know, I'm sure there's reasons for that.

You know, people, I think there's probably associations

to organs, you know, and just that concept of organ meat.

So, like,

Yeah.

I think it, I think it brings up your mortality.

I really do.

I, I think that.

That's definitely something I've, I've been messing around with and

thinking about is like when you, when you hear of a liver, you

think your own liver, when you hear of a heart, you think you're

the beating of your own heart, you know, and I think, I think that

that's what we're really icked out about, whether we want to

admit it or not, um, because most people will say, Oh, that's gross.

And they've never even tried them.

Cause they're not, it's actually not gross.

Like you talk to anyone that truly eats whole animal,

like I'll give you a story.

There's this woman, um, who has a website called awfully good cooking.

Her family is one of the most amazing families cause they

actually walk their talk.

They truly eat whole animal every week.

They're eating a different part of that animal.

They've eaten brain.

They've eating, eating tripe, which is the, the, um, the, the.

Or the, um, stomach lining is tripe and then they've also done lung.

I mean, they've done so many parts and this woman's kids,

when their, her kids asked like on their birthday, they

get, she said, you can, we'll make whatever meal you want.

They ask for menudo, which is a Mexican soup dish with tripe in it.

And most people go like, try it.

That's gross.

But if you actually prepare it properly and you eat it, it's, it's,

it's why these kids chose it, it's incredibly delicious, soothing meal.

Like it feeds you, um, literally, but it also feeds your soul.

And that's what these kids, these young kids are asking

for their birthdays, but no one would know that.

I think it's in fa as well,

Yes, it can be.

Yep.

Yeah, it can't be.

Yeah.

If you choose it.

Awesome.

But well, so Oregon meets in general and like what you're

talking about, and obviously this, it sounds like this is why

you went on a mission with pluck.

And maybe you just tell me a little bit about that and how you're

approaching this whole scenario with your own product, because

it's, it's obviously what you believe in.

Yeah.

once I identified like, okay, I wanted to feed my kids

the most nutrients food.

Well, I identified organ meats, but then I identified what

are the three main hurdles.

So first we have people think it's gross.

Second, Most people don't know how to cook it.

We've lost the art of cooking it.

And most people, if they do cook it, they overcook it.

And that's, that's one thing I'll just share is that when it's raw,

it's actually at its tastiest and as you cook it, it can get stronger.

And like when you overcook liver, it gets stronger, not, not less strong.

So

it's the opposite.

Okay.

yeah.

So people that are like, Ooh, taken back by liver, it's

probably cause you overcooked it.

Interesting.

and then the third one is that people don't

know where to source it.

Some people don't have access to it.

And so, uh, and then I guess the third is people know that

they should be eating it.

They are taking it in the form of a capsule and they just, capsules

are, they get either capsule fatigue or they're inconsistent.

You buy it one month and you forget to take it.

You know, we're just inconsistent with capsules.

And so, um, Once I identified those four hurdles, I was

like, okay, what do I do here?

And, and, and really, I mean, that's kind of the

uniqueness of me as a chef.

Like I, I've always kind of thought outside the box and I'm

always kind of trying to feel out.

I don't have, my training is not such that it keeps me boxed in.

Like where I'm, I only do the, you know, French cooking,

or I only do Asian cooking.

Like I'm not boxed in by.

A certain method of how to do things.

So I'm always trying different things I'm always thinking

like well, but what's the practical what's the most

practical use of this?

And so what I basically did was I was like, okay, we already

have Freeze drying and that's a preservation technique and it

not only does it preserve it from spoiling but it also preserves

the nutrients So they're already using in capsules and then we

have these We have dried herbs and we have seasonings that are also

shelf stable and made to last.

So I was like, well, technically when you make a pate, that's what

you're doing is you're taking the organs and you're cooking them

with different vegetables and herbs to make them taste good.

So why can't I just do that on a dry level?

And that's where I started to piece together pluck, which is.

Really a ancestral superfood, but it's basically taking freeze

dried powdered liver, heart, kidney, spleen and pancreas,

combining it with salt and then organic spices and herbs.

And so what we've created is a seasoning that you

microdose frequently because we all season our food.

So every time you eat, just sprinkle it on your food and

you're then getting cumulative effect of the organs.

We have kind of something for everyone.

We have three flavors.

That, um, all will also brighten the food.

Cause the umami in the organ meats actually makes

the food taste better.

So if you want to be deemed a better chef, you just put pluck on there

and everyone thinks you're amazing.

And you don't even have to tell them it's pluck just pretend it's you.

That's all

good.

I

And then we have.

We have a fourth product, which is just pure.

And that's just the organ meat.

So that's for those people that are like, Hey, I've been tested.

I'm anemic.

I, you know, my, my, I really need certain amount of nutrients.

Great.

We have that for you.

I just want you to eat it versus swallowed in a capsule.

Um, and one teaspoon of that is equal to two ounces of organs.

That's how concentrated it is.

teaspoon.

Okay, because I was going to ask, I'm like, is this enough

if it's just as, you know, you're sprinkling it on or

you're using it as flavoring?

What's fascinating is it really does go back to that, that, what I

was saying about that whole, like we have this American mentality

of go big or go home, but it's like, is a small amount enough?

Well, I should say is a small amount is small amount enough said

the cocaine user who just tried a little bit and was like, right.

So, so clearly like there's aspects of life.

Where when it's small amounts, just like that sponge, and I actually,

our body is able to absorb it.

Like if, so if I take capsules with too much vitamin A or any

vitamin, I'm going to pee it out.

But if I'm getting a little bit and we typically eat

three times or more a day.

So if I'm using two, let's say half a teaspoon every time,

even a teaspoon, I'm getting nearly a tablespoon a day.

Of this and what's fascinating is people we've gotten feedback

is people Get their their blood tested and they'll say like,

oh it's showing up in my blood markers I'm no longer anemic

or people that had skin issues.

My skin issues started going away or people that had issues around With

the birth or the the their child like this one woman um messaged

us and said she was on her third child and the first two she had um,

she She had very little milk And then she had, um, hemorrhage, blood

hemorrhage, a lot of hemorrhaging.

And she said the only thing she did different for her third one is she

used pluck the seasoning, not the pure through from beginning to end.

And she said she had an abundance of milk and she had no hemorrhaging.

Wow.

to midwives and they're like, Oh yeah, I always know if the

female had organ meats because the placenta is gorgeous, it's a

beautiful, rich color, and it's a nice size like across the board.

So we cannot underestimate.

How powerful these ancestral foods are our bodies

were designed for them.

There's this guy bill schindler He's a professor of archaeology.

He will tell you that that basically he wrote a book called

eat like a human and he'll tell you that That basically we were

scab we were foragers first then we were scavengers So we did get

some meat protein, but it wasn't until we got 30 We became the

predator and we got three things that we did not have previously.

That's when our bodies changed That's when our brains got bigger.

That's when we we entered the homo sapien Uh body

that we're in right now.

So this is like 300 000 years ago, right?

And those three things were blood Fat and organs.

Those were the mother nature's multivitamin that gave us the punch

To then evolve our brains to be bigger and our guts to be smaller

So we lost some ability to eat just random foods But we gained

a brain that enabled us to create language to create cities to create

all these amazing You know modern tools that we have to this day.

That is, I'm going to pick that book up because I've heard some

sprinkles of that, that concept and what you just said there,

but that it makes perfect sense.

You know, the evolution of path.

he's got this great quote He says we are the only species in

the world That looks to someone else to tell us what to eat.

Yeah.

That's a good point.

Yeah.

And, but it goes even deeper when you realize actually

there's over 8 million species.

So what the heck happened to us?

Or maybe what's right with us.

Yeah.

Well, who knows, but you know what I mean?

It's like, like, that's crazy.

And it, and it tells you that we did know we used to have

an instinct about what we did.

And that's why I'm a big follower or believer of

you got to eat your food.

Because when you swallow.

Let's say salt, a salt tablet.

You get a delayed response.

Why am I bloated?

Oh, I got too much of that salt.

But if I put salt on your tongue, your body won't

let me give you too much.

The salt, the flavor of the salt changes.

Like by the third or fourth time I put a dab on your tongue, it

literally tastes different and it kind of tastes disgusting.

Your body's rejecting it.

And that's a communication pathway that's been developed for

hundreds of thousands of years.

Why are we not using that?

It kept us alive.

It kept us so that we could evolve to who we are now.

Like we need to use it.

So you have to eat.

Like, so in a sense, when I'm even telling people, and I know

this is a business, but, but you know, here's the thing.

All good.

We're living life.

Yeah.

Right.

And, and for us to be good in business, we have to be able to take

ourselves, take care of ourselves.

So here's the deal.

Like I would break down three main criteria for

what food you allow to pass.

Into your body.

First is you look for flavors that are found in nature.

Not natural flavors, not artificial flavors, but flavors that are

found in nature, meaning that they haven't been adulterated.

They haven't been added to the product.

They're just in the product because of how it's grown or, or, or yeah,

or just yeah, how it's grown.

So that would be one.

Two would be Uh nutrient dense foods so foods that have nutrients

in them not fortified foods Not foods that have been fabricated to

have nutrients but foods that have nutrients nutrient dense foods And

then the third one is the one that most people don't think about and

they also don't we don't talk about enough which is Now just eat those

foods mindfully, like don't eat rushing, don't be eating in your car

as you're driving through traffic.

Don't mindfully just grab, you know, stuff off the shelves

because it's cheap or yeah, don't be watching while you eat.

Don't, don't like be eating around people that stress you out.

Don't, uh, don't just mindfully grab things from the grocery

store because you're hangry.

You know what I mean?

It's like, like be mindful and.

And you'll start to see, so eating those nutrient dense

foods mindfully, even how you prepare them, be more mindful.

Take a moment before you eat, you know, to say grace, to pray, or to

take a breath, put your fork down in between bites, little things

like that, just to slow down.

See, your body will be able to tell you when it's full.

It will be able to communicate to you.

Do you want more or less of this?

Because it has the time to do it.

And you're letting your body work for you.

Yeah, it's we live in such a fast paced world And I've noticed as

I've gotten older well also have had kids I've sped up my eating

but like back in the day when I was a kid I would take my time I was

always like Joe's the slowest eater.

I'm like I chew more and I think it helps with digestion.

I've heard a

for it?

Cause some kids when they're slow, they get shamed for

it and that's why they

speed up.

I didn't take it as but I definitely yeah, it was

mentioned many times I was like the slowest guy at the table,

Right.

And so that affects us because we want to be like everyone else.

And it's like, actually Joe had it right.

Little Joe was the one who was doing it mindfully

and like taking his time.

And that was actually, I mean, that to me is a beautiful

example of like, you know, A lot of times we, we know what we

need, like it's in our bodies.

And when we're young, that's typically a time where we're

not as influenced by others.

And we just follow the beat of our drum.

And it's, I would recommend everyone think back and kind

of reevaluate, well, what was I like when I was little?

We're around these foods or around the behavior of how

it went with my own self.

And, and definitely, you know, it comes out with a, you know,

I've, I've two little ones, a five year old and a one year old.

So it's,

Oh, you're in it.

Oh my gosh.

Yeah.

And I know, I know you, you have, you're passionate

about this as well.

And this is how pluck can tie in and, you know,

you're, you're introducing these to your kids as well.

So that's what I'm going to do.

And you know, it's not forcing it because there's definitely a

relationship there with food that.

You want to let them explore their own worlds.

You know, they're, they're human just like we are.

And we've all gone through phases of foods and you know, our

palates are changing all the time.

I forget how often, maybe, you know, but it's, you know, your

taste buds are actually adapting differently to, you know, often.

I think it'll be exciting when you start incorporating pluck with them

too because what the feedback we get is first of all Like, you know,

we all have those days that go sideways, you know, like oh I didn't

meal plan I didn't we're just tired.

Let's just order pizza, right?

And I usually kind of feel a little bummed out that i'm, you know,

not being more giving my kids more something more nutritious But

then what I do is I just sprinkle pluck on it and they love it.

It tastes good and they're like cool Thanks, dad.

Like love it You know, so like you can literally

sprinkle it on French fry.

You can take it, put it on anything.

We put it on popcorn when we have family night, you know, movie night.

And the kids love it.

Like they, many of us can't even eat popcorn without it because

it's so flavorful that, and you can't get that flavor for, from

pretty much anything else that.

Now a things that are normally kind of plain, like eggs and popcorn

and even toast, like you put it on there and it just brightens it.

It makes it so delicious and craveable that.

You'll see, you'll see your kid's palate change, you'll see their,

they'll actually get more interested in the food they're eating.

And then hopefully if, if there is something going on on bridges

in general, hopefully you start to see any kind of health

stuff go away or you see energy changes, you see clarity of mind.

I mean, it's, it's incredible when you start getting this natural

mother nature's multivitamin into your kids and yourself.

It's, it truly is miraculous.

But yet it's not a miracle.

It's just mother nature.

it's mother nature.

It's how it was intended and, and we're just

fitting right back into it.

So, yeah, we've been, it's a disconnected

world in a lot of senses.

So thank you, James, for, for enlightening.

Cause I didn't know much of anything about this world.

And that's what fascinated me when.

He said yes to doing the pod here.

So I know after, after this, I'm getting some pluck and I'm

going to get the spicy one.

I'm all about the spice.

So, you know, that's a, that'd be one of them and I

we have a, we have, I should send you, so you, you

like hot, like really hot

I, that's my, that's my jam.

Okay, you, I, you got to email me your, your address later.

Cause I, I just, we have a new flavor that's going to be

coming out and I need feedback.

Oh, yeah.

I'm your man.

and it probably won't be out when this podcast comes

out, but it will be getting closer, but it's habanero lime.

And I, and I'll send that to you cause it's hot.

That gets, it's hot.

I'm in.

Thank you.

Well, and a gift to everyone watching, listening.

James is hooking you up.

Uh, like I mentioned earlier, 20 percent off.

If you go to hustle and flow chart dot com slash pluck P. L. U. C.

K. and you just add the products.

I was testing it out and 20 percent off.

So and you'll learn a lot to there's recipes.

Your podcast is on there.

Uh,

We have a blog actually started with that just started too, that

I I'm really happy with is it's really putting out a lot of topics

that I think are really top of mind, like, you know, um, lead

and salt, you know, those kind of topics that I think a lot

of people are concerned about.

Yeah.

Well, soon soon to be.

You also have a digital mind, kind of a digital clone of yourself

that we're working on together.

Yeah,

And I mentioned Delphi all the time.

So yeah, hopefully that shows up on, on there as well, occasionally.

it will.

All right, James, I appreciate you so much.

This was fun.

Thanks for

Thank you.

Thank you for having me on Joe.