I am so excited for today's guest on the awfully quiet podcast. You see, when I set out on this journey, I knew they were going to be highly relevant topics that I would just not be a good enough expert to speak to. So I'm looking to bring in leaders and experts who can teach, inspire, and give freely actionable advice.

One of those topics is public speaking. I believe it's fair to say this topic is a bit of a love hate relationship to me. Introvert me is really scared when it comes to it, but ambitious me does really want to be able to speak up, express herself well, and do well in the spotlight. Just every once in a while, whenever I see someone present themselves well, or do a great job leading a meeting, I do feel that pull off.

I'd love to be able to do that too. So I went and reached out to the one person that has been occupying my social feed when it comes to public speaking and would always be my first choice when it comes to it. And dare I say, she said, yes, so I am going to be introducing Heather Morrison on the podcast today.

She is an inspiration on all things public speaking and overcoming the fear of putting yourself into situations that feel out of your comfort zone. She is a media personality in Canada. She's on national TV, does sideline reporting for sporting events. She's a public speaking coach. And founder of Deliver Your Best, an online public speaking program that helps people overcome fears and challenges tied to public speaking.

You definitely want to grab a pen and paper to take some notes and listen to this episode multiple times, because there are so many gold nuggets in what Heather shares with us. Now, without further ado, let's jump into the episode. Heather, thank you so much for joining me today and welcome to the Awfully Quiet podcast.

Oh, I'm so pleased to be here. It's honestly, I love talking about public speaking. So I'm just this is great opportunity.

Yeah, I do. I do need to out myself as someone who's been following you and admiring your work for quite some time now. But if I'm honest, I think for the longest time, I've been holding myself back from the idea of public speaking. So whenever I consume some of your content, I would tell myself the story of like, Oh, well, she's obviously super extroverted and confident and she's on national tv.

She's sideline reporting and public speaking must kind of run in her blood, something she's inherently good at and probably born with and that's not me. That's the story I've told myself. So talk to me about how much of public speaking is inherent talent. God-given versus a skill we can train and practice over time.

Well, thanks for sharing that with me because that is a very common story when it comes to public speaking is that people feel that when we see someone who's an excellent public speaker, that that is an innate talent or they were born that way. Okay. And they're rising to the occasion, which is not something that we feel that we are capable of doing. it's not true. Public speaking is a skill and it's a skill that you can develop. And it's actually a skill that I really struggled with when I started. So I, it's a little bit different for me in terms of, I worked as an actress and I worked in radio. So I had a lot of experiences. Being in front of audiences or speaking to audiences where I fell apart was when I started public speaking as myself.

So being asked to MC events and then it's me up there being perceived and I couldn't believe how much I fell apart. Me, someone who had loved being in place for my entire, you know, like, teen university career. And I'd had a bunch of professional gigs at that point. And then all of a sudden, when I was asked to MC.

And people were looking at me and I felt like they were judging me. I just completely fell apart. So I didn't come by it. I wasn't born this way. I had to work on it and I had to do a lot of work to get to a place where I feel comfortable and I can manage the nerves and the pressure that come with public speaking.

I love that. And I think it's an important mindset switch that we probably need to make the kind of self reflection that we need to understand that, it's a skill that can be honed over time. And, it's something we can practice and get better at. you know, the, when I think about public speaking, the picture I have in my head is I picture someone, you know, really charismatic, outgoing, zero nervousness, giving an inspirational speech in front of hundreds of people.

So, from you as an expert, what do you think makes for good public speaking and how might it be different from what I just described?

So what we're seeing when we see someone do that is we are seeing the result of a lot of effort and most likely as well, a lot of experience. So they're sitting there having practiced this skill many, many times. And so, and then also probably put a lot of effort into that performance. And that's something that's really important to remember, you know, when we see a professional athlete play, we never think, Oh, this is just who they are.

We recognize that they most likely had some talent and then they put a lot of effort into being that good. And public speaking is the same way public speaking though. I think that we get mistaken and that we think of it only as these big keynotes. I'm up in front of a stage in front of this adoring audience, but public speaking can be as small as making a phone call.

It's running a zoom meeting, making a presentation at work, doing a sales call. There's so many different types of public speaking that. People can do and what's interesting is the scale of the things that you need to do to support yourself are the same for those small minuscule type events all the way up to those really big ones and public speaking is about.

I think the best public speakers are the ones that are able to be themselves, able to be authentic. That takes work. That is a difficult thing to do is to just show up and be yourself and not let other things interfere. And so that's what I consider my job as a public speaking coach is to get rid of all the things that are in people's way so they can just be themselves.

I love that. And I also love the reference to a phone call can, can sometimes be as daunting as going on stage and being in the spotlight. And I think that that resonates very well with, what I'm doing with this podcast and what my audience is about. You know, introverts in the workplace who have to pick up the phone to somebody they've never interacted with previously.

You have to go on to teams calls and present in front of audiences. And even if they're just small, I often feel like these kinds of things can cause somebody to be really anxious and to be really nervous going into situations like that. What advice would you give someone, who feels anxious and uncomfortable going into these situations?

How do you tackle the fear? Does it ever go away or get better?

Okay, great. So there's multiple parts to this. So 1 of the things that I want to point out just in my research and all the stuff that I've done looking into this. So I can help people with public speaking. Is that, not all introverts. Are socially anxious and not all people who have problems with public speaking are socially anxious people, but there's probably a high percentage of all those things aligning.

Because introverts are more likely to be socially anxious. If you're socially anxious, you're more likely to have problems with public speaking. So let's think about the overlap there. and so then I see why because of that connection piece of socially anxious why a lot of introverts would have difficulty with public speaking.

So the answer to these questions is yes, you can not get rid of your nerves, but you can learn to manage your nerves and you can learn to identify. What thoughts are supporting you and what thoughts are causing you more problems, and you can learn to manage those thoughts and in that way, you can move forward.

So you don't have to be held back by this anymore. I will tell you. So it was interesting to me because I am definitely an extrovert. I get a lot of energy off talking to people. As I learned more and more about public speaking, I discovered that I have social anxiety and my social anxiety still flares up for me in certain situations.

But with public speaking, I've just, I've learned to manage it so well that it just doesn't interfere anymore. So it's not that I never feel nerves and I never feel fear. I just know what to do when I feel those things.

I love that you say that about, public speaking, almost like curing some of that social anxiety or building a vehicle for you to, To have something to, you know, step by step, get, get out of your comfort zone and get more comfortable with over time. and such a great distinction between, you know, introversion does not always mean somebody is socially anxious and there's so many misconceptions with that, but I often feel like.

And I speak for myself as well, introverts tend to put these things off in terms of like, well, I'm introverted. I can't possibly good at this. and so I love that you're saying that, the other thing I love about some of the content I'm perceiving from you is this thing around. It's okay to be nervous, and it's also okay for it to show to be nervous every once in a while.

And, what tends to happen to me whenever I'm in a situation where I'm out of my comfort zone is I, the shortness of breath and I, my, my face gets all red. And I'm just, I'm just worried in these situations that that takes away from whatever I'm trying to convey, whatever I'm trying to say to the.

Audience I'm speaking to, whether it be a big audience or just at a meeting. And so, you know, how can we take some of that away? How do you tackle being nervous? And what would you recommend someone like me when there are clear signs of nervousness showing?

Well, first of all, just recognize that this is very common. So this issue, I mean, look at you, look, you're in Germany, I'm in Canada, right? And we're having this conversation. This is a worldwide issue. This is why I have nearly a hundred thousand followers on Instagram is so many people have this problem.

We get into this place where we think it's only us. I'm the only person who has visible nerves when I'm public speaking, and that's not okay. This all comes down to the way that we think about it. So, when you're in a situation and you feel nerves, what we're going to do most likely is we have judgmental thoughts about those nerves or those symptoms of nerves of your face getting red or sweating, or your voice is shaking.

We think, oh, this, I'm a professional. This shouldn't be happening. If I, if I was better at my job, I would be able to do this without feeling nervous. And there's all these other thoughts that will come up for us. And what we're going to do is we're going to then project. So we're going to think that when people see that we're nervous, that that's what they're thinking.

But if you ever think about yourself in a situation where you notice someone is visibly nervous, whether it's a social situation or a public speaking situation, what have your thoughts been? In a social situation, when I notice someone's nervous, I think, oh, I noticed that they're a little bit uncomfortable.

I'm wondering what I could do to make them more comfortable. And I often think, okay, maybe I'll ask them a question. Or sometimes I'll be like, okay, that's obviously really difficult for this person to carry the conversation. I will talk a little bit more than I, than I usually do. I am not like, This person has no value and I'm not going to talk to them and how embarrassing and they shouldn't exist.

That does not cross my mind at all. And when people see a nervous public speaker, they often think, oh, that's too bad. Or they think maybe not even that's bad, but oh, wow. This is a difficult situation for them for some reason. They're not like, this person is bad, like, they don't go to assumptions about that person's capability.

About that person's character and. So what we need to do is recognize that. So then when we feel these things come up, we have to know that the stories we tell ourselves about these feelings are not true. And then the other thing that we have to do is we have to accept them because whether or not you think you should look and feel this way, you do feel this way.

And so there's nothing that's going to change that except for saying, this is my reality. And the 3rd part of this is, is an also understanding that you can be nervous. You can be shaking, you can have sweat and you can still do your job. You can still do a very, very good job. It's less about being nervous.

Sorry, it's less about not being nervous and more about making sure you communicate, get your material across, make your points, be understood. And in fact, some of the best public speakers out there are the ones that show visible nerves because it's costing them something to share what they're sharing, but because they are pushing through that emotion to share that message, it makes it so much more valuable.

I think that's also where some of the authenticity comes from, from somebody, you know, daring to be vulnerable in certain situations. And, yeah, people resonate with that. I certainly, do whenever I perceive someone like that. And, I've had some of these situations at work and we obviously all go through.

you know, the step by step, of evolving and developing over time and a situation that may have caused some nerves, at one point, does not anymore after, you know, trying and trying again and going through it with like the red face and, being all nervous and, is that something that you, find as well in terms of the development over time?

Is it that, we experience Try to expose ourselves to situations and we become less and less nervous when we're in them.

Yeah, so this is an interesting, conversation about public speaking because we oftentimes exposure is used to cure anxiety. So, once you're exposed to it, and then it's fine, you understand. Oh, it's okay. This is a safe place for me. And this is why. Programs that just have you show up and talk very repeatedly work really well for some people, but for other people that doesn't work because they show up, they get exposure to that anxiety and then they have a bad experience. So the story that this is an unsafe thing, that it's a threat to my status quo and that it's going to cause me pain is reinforced. And so then you're stuck in this cycle because the next time you have to do it, you're even more nervous. You fear that you don't just fear public speaking, you feel fear the fear you're going to feel.

And so it's even, it becomes heightened and people get stuck in that cycle. So exposure to anxiety only works. If we change the story, and so I'll give you a really good example about this. that's not public speaking related, but I recently climbed a mountain. I went out to the Canadian Rockies and just, my boyfriend and I were hiking up a mountain and it was so fun.

And I was having a great time and we got to this false summit and then most people don't do the actual summit because it's quite steep and rocky. But I was determined I wanted to get up there. So I just plowed through the fall summit and I'm going up the main some and I'm honestly, I'm, I'm ahead of my boyfriend.

I'm having a great time. And then all of a sudden, I look down and I was like, wait, does the trail go this way or this way? And then I realized I was off the trail and, and I made a mistake of looking back and I could see behind me and it was just steep, loose rocks. And, you know, we're on top of this mountain.

It's like 3 kilometers. We've hyped up and. I went into a full panic attack. So my amygdala hijacked my prefrontal cortex and I lost full function of my body. All of a sudden I couldn't move. I couldn't trust myself to take a step. I was convinced that if I moved, I would fall down the mountain. So I dropped to my hands and knees and I crawled over to these rocks and I was sitting there.

So let's just. Back out here for a second in this, take this as an example of a public speaking. So this is what happens to people sometimes when they're public speaking, they have this full, full panic attack and they cannot trust their body. That's their experience of it. And then they muscle through and then they get through it.

And then they think that was terrible. I'm never going to do it again. And that was me. I was sitting and I was looking at the summit of the mountain, a hundred meters away and thinking, what a shame. I'm not going to get there, you know, some people too, they give up, they leave out the back door when they're supposed to public speak.

I'm not going to get there because I can't because my body won't let me. I'm having this response and what helped me get out of it is 2 things, which is I remembered all my work from coaching public speaking and what I teach people to do in these situations, but also my boyfriend fully upright and completely calm just walked over to me and he's like, yeah.

Yeah, so like what's going on here and he was even like, you look hilarious. I want to take a picture of you and I couldn't even get my phone out of my pocket. Like, my hand was like shaking so hard. I

Oh, I feel you.

us both. I can't even hand the phone to you. And, but seeing him become realized, I'm.

Not in danger here. I, this is not a dangerous thing. Yes, there's some elements of danger to it, but I am not under the threat that my mind has convinced myself I am. And so I had to start working on that. I had to say, I feel afraid. I feel in complete danger right now, and that story might not be true. And I just kept telling myself that over and over again that I am safe.

What I'm doing is safe. And that I am going to be okay and that I can trust myself in this situation and I just kept doing that until I could function again. And then I will admit. I mostly crawled, but I got to the top. I got to the summit and it was such a rewarding experience. And then if you think about that, so what happened there is I changed my story.

So I changed my association with what was happening. By having that conversation with myself, so the 1st 1 was terrifying, but if I did that exact same mountain again, I I'm sure I would still get scared, but I would be less scared. And by the time I did it, the 80th time, I would be calm and walking up right?

Just like my boyfriend. So, I think this is what we need to do for public speakers is it's about that internal conversation so that you change the story. And that's how those nerves soften and go away over time, not by plowing through, not by giving up and avoiding, but by changing our thoughts and our association with the event.

I love that. First of all, I love the analogy and the picture you're painting about, you know, being at that mountain and what's what's happening in your body. And, The element of not trusting your body yet in this moment, and I resonate with so much and you're almost like, well, why is my body working against me here?

Why can I not just will myself through the situation and up that mountain? And I feel like this tool that you just described can is applicable to so many situations in our lives, but I love it for public speaking, as you say, because. It's so much about changing the narrative and almost like changing what we tell ourselves and is this really, dangerous right now, or is it something that I can potentially pull through?

But, yeah, I think this comes to life to me very much. And, yeah. Thank you for sharing that story.

Yes, I mean, it's only good because I got to the. But it was pretty hilarious. And it's just a good reminder that, you know, new experiences are scary and that none of us are, you know, that it's a human, it's human nature, human nature to feel thing, feel fear of things that we perceive to be a threat.

Yeah, no, absolutely. one of the, one of the big things I've, I'm taking away from, from your content and what I, what I've heard you speak about is the part about. Letting go of other people's perception of us. I believe I speak for, not only myself. If I say when, whenever I am in a public speaking situation, or whenever I present speak up in a meeting at work, I tend to get this feeling of.

All eyes on me. Everyone's looking at me or perceiving me, judging me. and what happens is that I make it all about me and about my experience. And I heard you speak about, it being so important to focus on the audience and whenever we, public speak and whenever we try to convey content, is we're really trying to, to, you know.

To give the audience a great experience. So how do we make that switch? How do I, how do we stop being consumed of what people think of us and focus on what the audience really needs from

Okay, so a few things here. So, first of all, recognizing that that is actually tricky. It's really tricky to let go of what people think of you and you, you might never. You might never be able to fully let go and that's okay. Like, it's just going to be something that you and me and lots of people have to deal with is that we fear judgment and we fear the judgment and the thoughts of other people. There's a few different things here. So one of them is what people think of you and concern over what people think of you. Is that so important to you that you are not going to use the one like you have to do the things you want to do? Is that the pain of what you think other people might be thinking?

Is that enough? To stop you from pursuing your goals and your dreams and living the life you want. The other part of it is that when it comes to the judgment of others, what you're describing right there in, in that meeting is I believe it's called the spotlight effect where we have this idea that we are under a spotlight and everybody is examining us way more closely.

Then they are, and that they're thinking about us and that 1 of the tools that I use is I remind myself that whatever I think they're thinking of me. The only person that I know that is for sure thinking that. Is me, I'm the only 1 I know for sure. And I just, I don't even try to go to a place where I don't care. I just go to a place of neutrality, which is I can't know what other people think of me unless they tell me.

So that helps me get to this place where I am. I'm a lot I can let it go a little bit, but if you really truly. Want to be a good public speaker and. Overcome this issue. It's like you said, it's about focusing on the audience. So when you are speaking in that meeting, it's not about you and it's not about how you're, it's not about your performance. What are you contributing? Why are you saying what you are saying? How is this helpful? And is it necessary? And like, it's really thinking about what I'm like, it's about the contribution as opposed to the performance. And so when I speak in front of people, or when I present really what I am there for is to help the audience have a really good experience.

I want them to feel good. I want them to understand my material. I want them to be changed. That's my focus right now. I'm focusing on explaining my ideas as clearly as possible, not on how I'm saying it, not on how I look. I'm trying to get this across. And the result of which is then the person comes across as authentic. Another example would be I'm emceeing a wedding this weekend. My goal is to not be like, look good or be funny or be like, you know, be a great emcee in terms of performance. My goal is to create a warm atmosphere to make everybody there feel like they are part of something special and make the two people getting married feel as if their love is being truly celebrated.

That's my focus. My focus is completely off of myself and when you can make that switch, then there's so much more freedom in there because then there's some, like, there's action that you can take in order to achieve your goal, as opposed to give a great performance, which is subjective. Anyway,

It is, and it's such a soothing thought for me as an introvert in terms of like, Oh, it's not about me. It's, and it rarely isn't. I love the wedding example, but likewise in the workplace. It rarely is about us. It is about. What we're trying to convey, what we're trying to push forward, the kind of projects we work on, the things we do and are passionate about.

So, I think it's something that we probably need to learn, over time to, you know, do less, less and less of to kind of make it about ourselves, but it helps me a lot in terms of, you know, soothing myself and, and thinking about. What does the audience need from me? So what do you do in these situations?

Do you picture somebody specific in the audience and just kind of try to anticipate, what are their questions? What are their needs? what do they, what do I need to give them? And what do I, how do I need to make sure to provide them with a good experience? Or do you prep in advance? how do you make sure that you, that the audience has a great experience?

yeah, I mean, those are all great questions. So. Well, it depends on, so it depends on what, what the event is or, or, or what's happening. So often what I just think about is what's my point of focus. So really what, what is the result that I want to have? And yes, I will. Prepare certain things. One of the things I don't think people realize is that I often prep my jokes.

So I, this, this wedding that I've been I'm seeing, you know, when I'm out running or when I'm falling asleep at night, I'm in the shower. I'm thinking about. Little pieces of humor that I can add to that, the event, those are not, I mean, some of the stuff will be off the cuff, but most of it is going to be prepared by me because I'm going to really think specifically about how to tell that joke in exactly the right tone. Also doing that allows me the freedom because I know I'm sitting on some great jokes allows me the freedom to come up with some in the moment, because I'm feeling like, okay, I've got this stuff to fall back on when I do things like sports interviews, sideline reporting. I want, you know, really when I do the interviews, what is in my mind or my point of focus is.

I want the person I'm interviewing to feel as if I'm very interested in them, and that I'm excited for them, and that I want them to look good and I want them to feel good. And when I do that, it creates rapport, like the result is there's rapport between me and the athlete. And that whole energy translates over to the audience watching.

So I think that would really be the focus for individuals would be, you know, really what is What is it you want for them and let that inform your behavior and inform the energy that you bring in? Because when we do stuff to hide how we feel or avoid often, the result is that we come across as standoffish or dull like monotone.

But when we have a point of focus, that's outside of ourselves that we lean towards, we become much more engaging and. The audience feels like they're part of it as well.

I really like the end event of, finding connection and finding what the other person needs. And this is something that I believe applies to the workplace as well, in terms of that often being underestimated. we try so much to come up as strong, confident, professional, you know, we've got all our. And, we, we, we present ourselves well, but that human factor of, you know, what, what's the, what does the other person really need from us?

And what's their perspective point of view? it's so, so important. And this, this human interaction. I love that you're saying that.

I do find workplaces and corp, like, especially corporate culture to be really different, difficult because we are trained to remove the human aspect of it. So when our humanness is showing, when our nerves are showing, we feel like it's inappropriate. But if you're in a good culture, there's room for that.

And so I think it's just a, oh, gosh, I could go on for this forever. Professionalism too, it's like a, it's a protection thing. Like when people are being professional, they're protecting themselves when you can be a human and you can be yourself and you can speak in your authentic voice presenting, you are going to outshine anybody who's being professional because you're going to be so much more easy to listen to, which means people are gain a lot more from what they're hearing from you. I'm not saying be lazy with your speech. I'm not saying make inappropriate jokes. I'm just saying, talk to them as a human, talk to them in your real voice and allow yourself to be fully seen. And that's the magic.

I love that. And, I do believe that's true. Whenever I hear somebody speak in, in a corporate setting, I, these are the cues that I'm looking for and those are the kind of conversations, meetings and experiences. I walk away and actually remembering, what what the person said and, feeling like.

They were genuinely talking to me and I, I matter in that, in that sense.

Yeah.

that whole, I matter. You have to realize that when we protect ourselves as speakers, we lose that. I matter from the audience. It's only when we can lean forward and allow ourselves to be seen that they feel like they are being seen as well.

yeah, yeah, absolutely. what I've taken away so far, in terms of understanding of public speaking is, it's, it's a lot about managing that conversation with yourself, the self talk, the limiting beliefs, the inner critic, similar to that situation you described on the mountain. Once you have cracked this, what are some of the tangible ways you can practice public speaking and truly hone the skills?

Do you try to, you know, get yourself into certain situations? Do you, pick something that you are, you know, a little bit scared about, but not too much? do you do something weekly or, you know, what are your tips around how to practice and hone? That skill.

Yeah, I mean, so great question and I think you nailed it there when you said do something scares you just a little bit. So obviously, if someone if wants practice in a safe and supportive atmosphere, my 10 week program is amazing for that because we do 3 speeches throughout the program where they get personalized feedback and it's.

Can I express to you how much of a safe environment I create for that, for that situation? What I like to say to clients is climb the ladder of fear. So if there's something that you want that feels huge and scary, and it's up here, it's at the top of the ladder, put it at the top of the ladder. Like that's where your ladder is going to lead to.

I wouldn't say sometimes people are like, just jump in and do the thing that scares you. And yeah, that can happen. And then you can grow a lot in a very short period of time, but it could. If it goes bad, you're going to set yourself back a lot. So we'll climb the ladder of fear. So we'll start with something that scares us just a little bit. And then once we've mastered that, something that scares ourselves just a little bit more. And what we're learning as we do that is we're learning. We're learning a lot about how our own fear manifests for us.

So for me, it's the physical, I get nerves, I get butterflies, which I have to say are kind of like the greatest version of the physiological

was just gonna say that doesn't sound bad to me at all.

Yeah. So I get

over that red face. It

Over the face. I know. So, and then the other thing that I, I get really negative self talk, so I'll often undermine myself. So it's like, I've, I'm not prepared. I'm not made for this, et cetera. And so it's good to learn what your mind and body do when you're nervous, because then you can start working on managing those in a lower stakes scenario.

And then you go slightly higher and you continue to develop that skill of managing your fear. And then a little bit more fear. Continue to develop that skill. So by the time you get to the big scary thing, you're not alone. You have all that practice and managing your fear and your pressure. I mean, if I look at my career, I started with and this was scary for me is I pitched a local community radio program to do a show about theater.

And I just once a week. hosted a half hour program on theater. From there, I moved into commercial radio and I was evenings and then I was afternoons and then I was mornings, which is like moving up the hierarchy of radio. Then I moved into public radio. So all of a sudden, instead of talking for 30 seconds, I'm doing six minute interviews.

And then I moved into television weather and then sideline broadcasting and then national television. I didn't just go, okay, I'm going to be on national TV.

often looks like that from the outside, doesn't it? Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah. You know, and I'm not saying like, Ooh, I hustle more than other people. I hustle the normal amount that other people hustle.

And I just stacked all those skills on top of each other so that I could do the big fun thing that looks really cool. But I never would have been able to manage the pressure of that situation had I not done all those other things.

Yeah. Yeah. And almost like allowing your body to adjust to these situations as well. and for the reactions that we have and for the exposure and, the nervousness. so that makes a lot of sense to me. And it's probably how we, we'd normally approach everything that we're trying to learn over time.

But then when it comes to skills that we perceive as. Like I said, God given or something that somebody just does really, really well. We tend to underestimate that it, it takes everyone that step by step approach. And, I also think that's the beauty of it.

Well, yes, I mean, it's so here I'll say this, too, because we worry that you've mentioned like, God given a couple of times or that natural talent or ability. And so I'll just address that the people that do not have a talent for public speaking. Have already turned off this podcast. They do not take my courses.

They do not watch my page. People, if you are interested in this, if you are interested in making this easier on yourself, if you're interested in developing this skill, you most likely have some type of talent for it because it's a, it's a whole idea of niche picking, which is that we choose environments that suit our natural talents.

If you are interested in this, you most likely have the talent. You don't have to worry about not being talented. It's just now, what are you going to do with it? The people that have no talent. Have no interest, which is great, which is fine. We need all types in the world, but they're off working in it or, you know what I mean?

Like, they're off quietly writing in their, in their, their little cabin and they're going to come up with a great novel. Like, that's what they're doing because that's where their talent lies. If you have an interest in this, you're talented and you don't have to worry about that.

I love that. so what I'm taking away from the conversation is nobody's born a great public speaker. It takes some time to hone the skill to learn, over time, takes a lot of prep and putting yourself into situations that are slightly out of your comfort zone, but not all the way, where they overwhelm you.

I have one final question for you. Why is it all worth it? Why? what does public speaking with us? How does it enrich our experience in the workplace? I mean, truly,I'm sure that everyone would benefit from public speaking one way or the other or from honing that skill, especially when it comes to workplace settings and scenarios.

So, why do you believe it's worth it?

Yeah. I mean, great question. So truthfully, I think. Developing the skills 1 of the quickest ways you can advance your career, because you never have to worry about what an opportunity is going to require of you. You don't have to worry that it involves speaking. So, if you're offered a promotion. You can say, yes, if you're offered a media interview, you can say, yes, which gets your name out there.

You know, I think about the people that come to me and they say, you know, for 30 years, I let my husband do the speaking or let my business partner do the speaking. And it's like, that person has just, it's taken off. They're recognized in public. They're given opportunities. They're thought of for things and the other person stayed still.

So I really think that in terms of career advancement. It is a huge aspect, but the other thing is the emotional weight of it is that when you dread public speaking, which is a part of most people's work, is that it costs you so much time worrying with the nerves and there's also the embarrassment and the shame and the avoidance of all the work to avoid that comes with it.

Letting all that go and all that freed up time and energy that you have, because you do not have those concerns anymore. So, for me, it is so valuable to develop the skill. Plus also the increased sense of confidence of self worth, because you have done something challenging and you've overcome it. Like, there's so many reasons to work on your public speaking for me myself.

I am a single mom. I own a home. I own my own business. I work for myself. I love my life and it's because I worked on this skill

I love that so much. especially what you say in terms of like, standing up for yourself, earning the confidence. I think confidence is a whole other topic that, we tend to think. Something that we're either given at birth or we just don't have. And it's so important to understand that confidence also grows with our, with the effort that we put in and the situations we put ourselves in in terms of, You know, getting a little bit uncomfortable every once in a while and for introverts in the workplace. I know that, what's often a pain point or what's often a struggle is the sentiment of being underestimated and being overlooked just because we're a little bit quieter than the rest of the workforce.

And so being able to public speak voice, our opinions and meetings and speak up here and there, not always in front of the big audiences, not always when there's a big spotlight, but. in situations where it matters and where we really have something to say, I think this could be a great tool for, for us to not be overlooked for us to not be underestimated, but to be able to contribute and show up.

and I will say, don't underestimate the value of being someone who doesn't take up all the airtime who doesn't speak all the time because when you have something to say, people listen. Because you've been quiet, you've been thinking about what is the best thing to offer at this time, and so when you speak, it's incredibly valuable.

Unlike myself, who talks constantly all day. Not everything that comes out of my mouth is a gem, I'll tell you that. Right? And

so,

like it though.

just honed in, focused interviews. But I think that, you know, you have a lot of value, and I think that you don't have to mimic. What other people are doing in order to be able to offer that value.

Amen. I'm not only speaking for myself and saying that you are such a gift and that you're not only role modeling what good public speaking looks like and feels like. But you're also bringing people in on the behind the scenes into, you know, the messy middles, the awkward feelings and, the mindset work that is connected to it.

And that, you know, inner self talk is connected to it. So that makes it to me like from, you know, turns it from something that feels really, really scary and like big unattainable to something that. I feel inspired to pursue and give a try and I'm sure the audience feels the same way. So thank you so much.

I'd love for you to tell us where everyone can find you, learn about your program and inquire to work with you.

Yeah. I mean, so the best place to find me would be on Instagram where you found me. So my handles at deliver. your. best have a website, deliveryourbest. com. You can go to my website, you can pick up my freebie, which is a quick fix guide to nerves, which is that step by step process of like how I talked myself down on the mountain. That's what I, that's what's offered in in the nerves guide. And yeah, just stay tuned because I have my 10 week program. I also am just finishing up an ebook. So that's going to be up for sale soon, which is like a guide that people can purchase. That's going to step them through mindset and preparation and other things that they need to work on their public speaking.

Love it. All right. We'll make sure to link those in the show notes as well. I'll continue to follow. I'm such a fan and thank you so much for coming onto the awfully quiet podcast, Heather. It's been such a pleasure meeting you and speaking to you about this. Thank you

Yeah. Thank you for having me. You did a great job. You're a great host, great public speaking. I give you a high rating.

thank you you so much.