Welcome everyone. This is the Genesis podcast of Bitcoin homeschoolers. My name is Scott. My lovely wife Tali is here with me and we're very excited to kick off this podcast. We are here to serve you. If you're considering homeschooling, you're already homeschooling, even if you just want to find some supplemental material for, your kids that might be in public or private school. This podcast is going to be for you. We'll do a quick introduction today because it's our first one. I'd like to cover the inspiration for what got us here. There's certainly countless people over the last two decades and four kids going through this homeschooling adventure and it's time for us to give back and help others. So bitcoiners and homeschoolers in my mind have a lot of the same core values. This is something that's a, it's a cause bigger than ourselves. It's a lot about freedom, human flourishing, especially for our families. So we'll go through that. We'll do that today and we'll wrap up with a couple of recommendations. Tali, anything else that you'd like to add for the intro?

Hi everybody, this is Tali and I'm excited to share lessons from our homeschooling journey over the last two decades. It's interesting looking back from a distance now over what we have tried, what we have witnessed, what we have observed through the many moves that we made during our homeschooling journey, which allowed us to look at a lot of different approaches from different families. And we have a pretty wide database of do's and don'ts to draw from that we would love to share with you going forward.

Great. All right, let's just hit it off. I'll start. I'm, I consider myself a Midwest guy. I spent my formative years in Northeast Ohio and went to West Point and afterwards spent five years in the army. And to me, that's important because that's probably where if I had to go back, where the idea of serving a bigger cause really was crystallized. After I got out, went to business school and Tali and I met at Yale school of management. And I'm very proud to say I successfully derailed her and all of her aspirations to be an investment banker. And she's the one that actually led us down the homeschooling path. So I think, let me just touch on it from my point of view, but the story is more interesting from hers. Homeschooling it's a couple of things. One, you're pursuing things that are really good. If you're, if your child can accelerate in one area or another, you can just let them take that area and really grow it also from the Bitcoin standpoint. You can teach about money and other topics that are just not taught in public schools. The second thing though, is you can avoid bad things. A lot of things in the news about woke political agendas and a state that really wants to control your kids. I find that it's really disgusting that others think that they can take over your, your kids development. I just, I just find that appalling. So, you bring those two together and you have this asymmetric upside because kids are really resilient. So if you, if you have any fear, you're thinking about homeschooling and you think, what if, what if I can't do it? What if I'm not good enough? Let me just tell you in the absolute worst case. You're a child can go back to a public or private school and they, they will be just fine. But I'm here to tell you, you can't fail. There is so much support available in this community that it is, and there's so many resources. And, and honestly, it's, this is what people have been doing. People were schooling their kids long before government came along. So You can't fail. To me, this is all about taking self custody of education. It is absolutely worth the hard work. The opportunity cost of those lost wages is nothing compared to the payoff. Just like in Bitcoin, it is worth the energy used to, mine it. But now for the more interesting story. Tali, I want you to kind of tell them how we kicked off our homeschooling.

Okay, so you don't want me to talk about... why we homeschooled.

Yeah, go ahead. I mean that to me, that's part of it.

Okay. So I'm going to go back pretty far. Scott and I both have gone through our schooling through brand name schools. And in high school I went to a science and technology magnet school. That was pretty tough to get in and I was working with students who were all just super, super smart. From there went to University of Virginia. And then from there, of course, he just mentioned we went to Yale School of Management, but the whole time I had this nagging feeling that Even though I had these brand name diplomas I did not feel that I was well educated. Fast forward to when we had our kids and it was sort of by accident that I heard about homeschooling in the first place. We were coming out of church service one day, our oldest was only about two years old. And in passing, we were chatting with a mom and she mentioned that she homeschooled her two daughters. And I, at the time, I didn't even know that that was an option. I didn't know it was a thing. And the only response I could think of to ask her as a follow up was, were you a teacher before you decided you wanted to homeschool your girls and she said yes She was a school teacher and I said aha. Well, of course, that's why she can homeschool because she was originally trained as a teacher I didn't really think too much about it a few months later. We were at a playdate and our friend's neighbor came over and with her nine year old son. And we were chatting and she said, Oh, my son learned how to read when he was nine months old. I was floored. I didn't think that was possible. Like how do you even test a baby to see if the baby can read a word that you show to the baby, right? They're not even really talking yet. So she showed me this book called how to teach your baby to read and flip through the page where they were showing the different kinds of flashcards that you would Basically flash in front of your baby's face at regular intervals throughout the day to teach your baby to read And then she said oh and by the way We homeschool so that he can accelerate at the pace that he needs to accelerate and I said well Were you also a school teacher? She wasn't and I said, I don't even know where to begin I don't even know how to evaluate my options and this was A long time ago, before podcast, before YouTube, and our only resources were each other or printed books. And so she showed me her book and it was called Mary Pride's Big Book on Homeschooling. And it was the size of a phone book for those of you who remember those And I brought it home and I flipped through from. From beginning to end, it was pre K all the way through high school graduation, and I had a framework that was built for me. I didn't realize there were different curriculums to choose from, so I just had a really wonderful overview of the whole process, and I thought, wow, that sounds plausible. Like, we can actually do this because somebody had laid out a roadmap, even though it was in this giant phone book form. And I, of course, read her book that she lent to me called How to teach your baby to read and in it the author described the process and the window, actually the window to teach to your child in that way, in the way that he described ended at 36 months old. And I was very alarmed because our oldest was already. 30 months old. And I thought I was running out of time. I'm like, Oh my gosh, we were running out of time. Our two and a half year old is almost not going to be able to learn how to read using this method. So I woke up Scott and I said, I can't believe it. We're already too late and we're running out of time. But that's how we started the whole process.

Yeah. The only thing I could, add to that is We basically, we, we made a commitment together. We didn't know exactly what we were doing, but the first step is to commit and then have the courage to follow through. And we basically had it as I recall a discussion that if we could get by with one income and give up maybe vacations or a larger house or something that we were committed to make this to make this work. So that was a, you know, the, i I, I was not worried that Brianna could not read at two and a half. That was not my concern. But this was something Tali was clearly passionate about trying, and to me, the, the big step was to commit. I, think we should, jump from there. Let's, like, fast forward 20, 22 years and let's connect this with, with Bitcoin The reason that this podcast is called Bitcoin homeschoolers again, is there's a tremendous amount of overlap between the way homeschoolers think and Bitcoiners think. And it was only, I think nine months ago is January when Matt Odell asked us to be on his Citadel dispatch podcast specifically to talk about homeschooling. And just a couple of months prior to that, Tali and I had never even met anybody who was in the Bitcoin space. So first of all, hats off to the people at Bitcoin park, because literally, anybody is welcome there. And it was just amazing. It has made all the difference in the world for us in terms of. Having the courage to take additional steps down the Bitcoin, down the Bitcoin path. From there we thought we would go to homeschooling conferences and we went to a couple this year, but we didn't get a great reception and it was a little Well, mind boggling to me, because there's so much overlap, but again, we had two homeschooling conferences, neither one really, really was like, Oh my gosh, where have you been? Bitcoiners. However, we've had additional Bitcoiners that loved homeschooling. So we talked to Daniel Prince on Once Bitten. I had the opportunity to talk to Shane Hazel on his personal podcast and it's just, it was like Bitcoiners were on fire. the tipping point really happened just in the last couple of weeks, Elly Pembroke and her husband Asher invited us to participate in a homeschooling panel, at tab conf in Atlanta. And we just had a, we just loved it. We spent an hour talking. Shane Hazel was actually there as well. It was, it was just really wonderful. This is a spark that led to this podcast. We had 20 plus years of homeschooling and now we're, trying to grow our own Bitcoin business focus on education. And so many people are excited about the subject of homeschooling that I'm like, Tali, we got to do this. We just gotta, we just, this isn't the, this is the next big step for us. All right. So Tali, what do you, what's your point of view on this?

Well, There were a lot of lessons that we learned over the last 20 so or so years what homeschooling podcast you mean?

Well I'm just saying we're here growing free market kids. We're, we're focused on money education, Bitcoin in particular, and it doesn't have to be homeschooling, but it's about education, the intersection of Bitcoin and education. And there's a lot to do to, to try to just get a business up and going. So why in the world will we start a whole podcast? And for, for me, it's exciting because it connects the dots based on these, the panel based on, The reception we have when we talk to people and people coming up to us and asking us questions there's a lot of people who are thinking about homeschooling in the Bitcoin community and this is going back to earlier in the conversation. This is an opportunity where we can give back. I can't give back in terms of technical advice on Wallets and coding that's not me Right. I can't give financial advice. I mean, I like to study economics, but I, I'm, that's not, I'm not, there are others who are much further along in that, but you and I have have over two decades of experience in this area and it just feels like this is our way of being able to contribute to the, to the Bitcoin community.

Yeah, I agree with that. Because we have had a lot of people talk to us, even people who don't have children yet, and some of them are not even married yet, but they are so excited about the prospect of homeschooling that that they're asking us Lots of questions. And homeschooling sounds like a very long journey because you're looking for, you're like, Oh my gosh, my child or my unborn child, this is, this is an 18 year process. And it is, but I don't think that we need to look so, so long term, because a lot of it is literally just putting one foot in front of the other and constantly reevaluating what's working and what's not working. And The honest truth is you think you're in charge and you gotta figure everything out right now, but you really don't. Your child plays a very big part in this. I call it the 51 49 split. you don't want to be 100 percent controlling every decision under the sun regarding homeschooling because then your child would feel slightly oppressed and maybe a little bit withdrawn, but you also don't want to give a hundred percent control over children. So 100 type of setup where the child does whatever he wants, because there is still a part to play for the parents to set boundaries because we still have wisdom, in this world and how the society functions and everything. So the 51 49 split is basically my way of describing a really healthy I don't want to call it power structure, but. Contribution, contribution structure. Your child is giving you feedback, you know, like, for example, let's just get concrete. If you think it's time for your child to start learning the alphabet and you're sitting your kid down and you're like, this is A. Well, if your kid is literally not able to sit down that long yet, That's your feedback. And maybe you need to try a different way. Maybe you don't, do the formal sort of sit down, be quiet and listen to me teach you kind of thing, but maybe, mix it up a little bit and do it outside when they're on the playground and say, Hey, draw me an A. Concentrate on the sand. Go get a stick and draw it in the sand. This is an A. and if their attention span allows them to give you two minutes of focused attention then that's what you take and you don't try to push forward, right? So, you're letting the child give you feedback, everyone initiates and the child is giving you feedback and you constantly adjust. I think that is A. Really healthy way of looking at this process. The 5149 split,

right? No, I mean that's and everybody just just so you know that that's our take on it It's it you're gonna have to find your own mix and I think that's the beautiful part about homeschooling is if you want it to be a hundred or zero or zero one hundred or Anywhere on that spectrum this is this is your choice This is it's sort of permissionless if you're if you're doing this as a parent You don't need my permission or the state's permission or anyone else's. This just happens to be our point of view. And that balance worked for us, but I would just like to point out for anybody who's in that early stage and they're trying to think, is this right or not? The beautiful part is they get to decide like no one, no one forced us to do what you just said. That was. That was just what we pursued and so just want to highlight the flexibility You have as a parent to do what you think is right for your For your kids and it can even adjust within the kids right, maybe one student learns a certain way and needs more structure and Another student is very self motivated and even within a family you can vary that So I just you know, I don't want anybody to think that we're saying these things that we're saying that you have to be this way We're just sharing what worked for us And I wanted to point out that, Hey, you can do this anyway you want. I, I can't stop you from teaching your kids the way you want to teach. Just like I can't stop anybody from using or not using Bitcoin. I

know. But I think for some people who are coming in with no knowledge of how to go forward, I maintain my recommendation. It should be a 5149 split. But before you even think about homeschooling one of the, the main takeaways that I saw, over the last 20 years is you got to get the power structure right between you and the your child or children because a lot of homeschoolers end up quitting homeschooling at the end of elementary school because they can't get their children to do what they believe they should do.

Maybe that I, I think maybe this, that's too much. Well, no, no, no. It's actually, what's interesting about this is I think we. This is where we, we need to start to transition and ask others for what they want to hear about. If other people are interested and this is listeners, this is, this is where we need your feedback. If you're considering homeschooling, you're already homeschooling, or maybe you're just doing the supplemental thing for your, your kids when they come back from public school. We need to know what it is that you want. let's list this as a subject and we'll go really deep on setting that up as a subject someday. Maybe it's not right for today as an introduction, but I think it's certainly a topic that for people who are listening to you say that. They're like, okay, I would, if that's important, I need to work that out with my, my significant other. What have you learned? I think some people would want to know. So just so everybody knows, let me let me use that as a, as a way to say what Tali and I hope to do on this as we're, as we're learning how to do a podcast and adjust this to what you want. Some of the things that were on our mind were let's share things that we've learned. Maybe some funny. Not so funny stories along the way. Let's share some resources. Not all of these are going to be what you expect. A lot of homeschooling is not just the reading, writing, arithmetic type. There's a lot of other things to, to get into so we can share resources and of course bring others who the Bitcoin homeschooling space onto the show. So you get some different points of view. I think that is actually a good thing we're all in this together. We're all collaborating. It's not quite the same as free and open source software, but we're all working on education together and hearing other people's points of view and how we're doing this, I think is pretty valuable. So long, long way of saying, let's put that discussion on as one of our subjects to deep dive.

Do you want me to respond to that?

Yeah, this is a discussion, of course I want you to respond.

Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Let's, let's dive in subject by subject. We, did you mute me?

No, I didn't. Oh, if you would like to go deep on it now. No,

we don't have to go ahead. No, no, we don't have to go deep. I, I, I was just basically following my train of thought. Just if, if you're coming in brand new, you don't know what's available. You don't know what it involves. And how huge the scope is, if you're looking very long term, just know that it is more of a constant reevaluation, pivot, pivot, pivot, pivot kind of process versus a straight line. It's not K to 12 in a straight line, everything preset, everything predetermined. Everything prearranged. That's not the way it's going to happen. It has, it's not the way it happens for most people. And going back to Scott's point about how you can plan things out, but it may not work the same way with one child versus another. And we also know families who have one child in public, one child in Private, one child homeschooled and then another one literally doing it online. So Depending on the child's personality depending on your needs depending on the nuances of their learning styles There's not one right answer for every single child and certainly not one right answer for every single family

Right. So, so one of the things that I wanted to, to get out today is I'm looking at this from almost a game theory standpoint. This is something that's bigger than us. We're playing an infinite game and educating our children is, is certainly a cause bigger than just ourselves. This is something that's going to outlast. It's going to last generations. It is a huge responsibility and a huge impact. And it's just something that's, it's very personal, but it's also Something I just want others to, to kind of think of it as a, from that game theory standpoint of this is an infinite game. This isn't like when those things you win or lose, you were successful or not successful. Did you do a good job or not do a good job with, with the education of your, of your children? This is something that literally is going to go on forever. We're still, even as a, even though our kids are adults. We're still learning and we're still parenting and it's just going to continue on. And then that's when they have kids, it'll continue way past us.

Okay. So see, you're all altruistic and thinking big picture. And for me, I did it for very selfish reasons and I'm sharing lessons with you for very selfish reasons because for our next generation to succeed, I think. Personally, that the most important thing children need to realize is that their parents care and that they count. And if you decide to homeschool, and you're devoting time and attention on your child, even if, hypothetically, that academically, you don't achieve some super high level, let's say, if that's your goal. But. The day to day interactions that you have with your children were healthy. And they fully recognize that you are devoted to them and you want what's best for them. I think that covers a lot of possible mistakes that you might make in the process because Scott and I for sure made a ton of mistakes. I always feel bad for my firstborn, especially because she bore the brunt of me not knowing what the heck I was doing and just trying. stuff out on her. So I have apologized to her numerous times before being my test subject, but the entire time she knew that we, we cared and we were, whatever mistakes we were making, we thought we were doing what was right. I just want to say that because. This is not a, this is not like a like a, like a test, there's no, there's no grade that you need to meet, whatever the school system has trained you up to think, everything is evaluated with the letters a, b, c, d, but. In my mind, a successful homeschooling experience means that your, your children grew up knowing you cared means that they grew up with you being involved in their lives and they were prepared for adulthood and that can look different for everybody, for every family.

Yeah. I mean, just to testify, if you look at our kids, they're, young adults basically, and they have conversations with us and their friends look at them and say you, you tell your mom, what you tell your dad, what? And that, that connection you're talking about will last forever, right? Who's going to spend the most time with your, who's spending the most. The thing is on my mind is you're saying that is who is your child spending the most awake hours with? And when you're, when you're schooling, you're there, they're learning in the car, they're learning in the kitchen, they're learning. They're learning all the time and you're talking to them all the time. And I think the, not just whatever the academic thing is that you, that you gained from that, but man, you gain this, this much deeper relationship. So yeah, maybe, maybe our, our daughter will have to forgive you for whatever you tested out on her, whatever madness you got into on the other hand. You can talk to her every day and even though she's at college and that's a pretty amazing relationship that if you're looking long term and you're thinking about homeschooling the question I would ask is what what kind of relationship do you want to have when your kids are adults and who's gonna spend the most time influencing their their way of thinking think about the opportunity you have right now To commit to being able to be the one that they spend the most time with. And I'm just thinking about all the conversations we've had with the kids and they, their peers are not having those same conversations. With whatever life things are dealing with, with with their parents, or maybe they are, but I think it's the exception.

Yeah, that's what we have heard. When they graduated homeschooling and they went out to programs where they were the exception, as in all of their peers were either public school or private schools and they just, share stories about their personal life and families. They were all shocked that our kids talk to us every day and tell us everything and they tell each other everything, our girls would tell them the boys stuff and ask each other opinions. And apparently, we just took that for granted that that's just the way families work. But apparently for a lot of children out there, they feel so alone that they don't talk to their siblings and they don't talk to their parents. I mean, I feel like that's the best reward for homeschooling out of every other thing that we talk about. That's the most precious part of this.

Yeah. Pretty, pretty amazing, pretty amazing gift there. So any, anything else that you, well, I was

going to say this, I was thinking about something when you were talking about who, who do your kids spend the most time with. And I think. All parents who spend time and attention and give their kids attention, realize something very, very quickly, which is the incredible power they have to shape how the child looks at the world and themselves. That was something that was so surprising to me when the kids were younger. I didn't realize the amount of power we had over that. And Of course, with that power comes great responsibility. So you better make sure that yourself is, you yourself are standing in a very healthy place looking out, This is a, this is a definitely a learn as you go kind of thing. And again, I want to go back to the notion that this is not a you have to figure everything out right now in order to do a right thing. You're going to have to adjust yourself. All the time, in addition to adjusting your approach with your kids. It's a lot of evaluation, like introspective evaluation discussions, probably with your spouse experimenting and it's a back and forth process.

Yeah. I'm just thinking of several stories. I'm wondering, maybe this is Bitcoin homeschooling, anything that we can connect with a Bitcoin story related to that and how we talk to the kids about. About that, even though they're done with, they're done with high school,

In terms of going back and forth to like learning

as we go? Well there, there are frameworks. Yeah, sorry to talk over you said, you, you, you mentioned we have the opportunity when you're homeschooling to help shape how they view the, the world. And I think our kids have been pretty good about becoming critical thinkers. And even challenging us. And I'm thinking about what's happened over the last three years as we've gone deeper and deeper into, into Bitcoin. And even though the formal years of schooling are over, like you and I haven't stopped. We're still, we're still in that teaching mode and the dynamics are a little bit different, but I think it's been interesting to listen to the kids frameworks as they ask us questions or give us their points of view on what, You and I are doing as we're learning about Bitcoin and we're excited about it. We're trying to teach them and I'm just trying to connect the dots between what you said about being able to influence their framework. And then money in particular and, and Bitcoin. Okay,

so I just thought of something. So if you've ever seen a competition of Tai Chi hand, what's it called? Hand combat, Tai Chi hand combat. And they, if you've ever seen, not seen them, look it up on YouTube, but it'd be two opponents with your arms up and they're basically just pushing each other They're their stances firm and they're pushing each other back and forth and you're feeling out each other's strengths and weaknesses and Point of attack and like retreat points things like that And so the reason I think of that is as the kids grow up, when they were little you can just almost one way tell them what to do and then as they mature and You necessarily should have retreat moments and advanced moments and retreat in advance because you got to you got to balance their willingness and ability to critically think and make their decisions and you kind of give them feedback that kind of thing and as Get they get even older than that like our kids early adulthood You you can't use the same approach that you used when they were five Or even 10 or even 12, they're, you know, 18, 20, 21, and then we have a 16 year old, but we have to change our approach. So if we go to them and go, Hey, these are the books on Bitcoin you must read. And I'm your parent, you need to listen to me, and go listen to these podcasts episodes, then that direct approach in that one sided approach, We'll produce the opposite results. So we have to be more tactful now, more diplomatic, and we have to watch for the right timing. We have to be flexible about how we bring information to their attention. So that's sort of that the Tai Chi approach that I, I kind of see in my head. We have

to be, well, I mean, it makes us have to be better. Right. If you, if you are able to just force your way, you, you don't have to be good if you're, you know, you have a monopoly over the discussion. You, you don't have to be good. It forces us to, to go deeper on the subjects, to, to have better logic, to be able to hold our own in a, in a conversation about why they should, they should look at it. So,

yeah. But also be patient enough to wait for the right timing.

Agreed. I agree. Yeah. That's all I have to say. Really? Okay. For now. I'm recording. I'm going to replay that part right there. All right. So one of the things that I wanted to just get out today is this. It's something that's already out there, but one of the things that I think would help listeners in terms of understanding. My thought process that led up to this podcast and that is that after we went to the homeschooling conventions and not being able to, convince people that have, they, they, they're, they literally, I literally thought these are people who are big corners and just don't know it yet. So. So instead of just going through all the points again, I, I, I do have pinned on my Twitter an article titled that homeschoolers are Bitcoiners who don't know it yet. If you're new to hearing some of the stuff that Tali and I are talking about now, these are some of the topics, not all of them, but some of these topics have come up on panels and other podcasts, but So if you are new to homeschooling or just new to hearing some of our points of view on it, I would really recommend that you could check out the, that article. We'll also put the links in the show notes for that we're, we're just starting this obviously. So right now this is an audio version. We're going to have video later, but we will certainly have show notes starting from the beginning. All right, Tal, how about you? Anything? I tell you one thing, if I could, that I thought for today would be, would be interesting for people because it's come up, I literally think it's come up in every panel and podcast so far, and that is recommended resources to start.

Okay, so on free market kids towards the bottom of the page, there is a link that says I want to homeschool. And if you go there, it gives you some outline of curriculums out there. but also the state by state legal requirements for homeschooling. But I just want to say that you don't have to worry about any of those things until your child is five or six at least. Well, in terms of the legal requirement, definitely not before the age of six. And honestly, in terms of curriculum, I don't. I don't necessarily think you need to worry about that either until they're five or six. In the beginning, really all you have to focus on is having fun with your kids, observing your kids to start gathering information about their specific learning style, making sure that your relationship is healthy you need to have enough authority with your child that if you tell your child to do something he doesn't like, he will do it because you said so. That's probably the biggest reason some homeschoolers end up quitting and sending their kids back to school is because they can't get their kids to do what they want them to do. So the power play, again, I hate using the word power, but that's. I, the best word I can think of to describe it, you need, when the kids are little, especially, and you have so much influence over how your relationship is or becomes, that's really the most important thing to get right before you start thinking about teaching them numbers and ABCs.

All right. Is there anything else that you would like to get out on our first podcast?

That's, that's basically the most important thing for anybody who's thinking about homeschooling is don't ask those questions yet.

Okay. All right. Well, I want to express our gratitude for everybody who's putting the hard work or committing to put the hard work in the future. That level of commitment to self custody of your education, your kid's education is just tremendous. And again, in the show notes, we will have links to anything that we've talked about.

Can I add something? It's just something just popped into my head. I'm just going to reword what I said before, which is the art of parenting is what needs to be focused on first, which is why in this podcast, I'm going to stress a lot about sharing parenting tips because I, I feel that their natural instinct and desire is to be great. And they're going to look for ways to learn because that's a very natural human desire is to grow themselves. And in order to grow, they must learn. So I don't feel that we necessarily have to push very hard for kids to do well. But the parenting balance has to be right.

Yeah, I don't want to scare anyone either. These are all important things. If I were not homeschooling yet and I just listened to, to man, I got to figure it out the art parenting, and I gotta figure out this, and I gotta figure out like that. I think we run the risk of overwhelming people and the most important thing, I mean, it's okay for us to disagree folks, by the way, like Tali and I are both committed to the same cause, but we have, we do have different points of view and I actually think that's a, that's a feature, not a bug in our in our parenting. The takeaway is worth it in the long run. This is worth it for your kids. This is just, it is worth it for society. It is just worth it. And yes, there's going to be a lot of things you don't know, but it's, it's worth it. And if you commit to it and you have the courage to follow through, you will gain those capabilities, whatever those capabilities may be that you don't have today. That's what leads to confidence when you look back and say I did that, or the kids did that. I, I just want to leave people with, it is worth it and just take the first step. just start and, everything that we're talking about, these are all things you can get into. You don't have to do any of them. You don't have to do all of them. You can do whatever you want, but just start. Just take that first step and commit and then the rest will follow. I want to somehow work that into this. Reassure people that no matter how deep we go on any subject, don't be intimidated by it. It's, something you're going to have your own things that you're wanting. You're going to want to go deep on anyway. So anyway,

I agree with that. I agree with that. Sorry if I sound too intense but this is a literally put one foot in front of the other baby step process

Right. Everybody heard it. Tali and I agree on, this. This is, this is good. All right. Best way that we can serve you though, is if you let us know what you're, looking for. So we don't care if it's email, DM, Nostra, orange pill app, telegram, whatever your method is. We want to be available. Let us know your questions. Let us know people you'd like us to interview. Let us know what kind of resources you want. We're looking forward to continuing our journey and giving back. And honestly, we're still learning along the way. Tali, what do you think? Anything else here?

Nope. I'm good.