Have you ever experienced a slump in sales?

If so you are not alone.

This is something that all small business owners go through at some point.

So when sales slow down, what can you do about it?

I'm joined by Helen T bay.

To help you remain calm, stay focused and get more sales in this episode.

Of architecture business club.

The weekly podcast for solo and small firm architecture

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This tailored approach helps you navigate your unique path to success, whether

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I've got you covered.

Just click the link in the show notes to book a call with me to discuss

your options or email Jon that's J O n@architecturebusinessclub.com.

For more information.

Now let's discuss what to do when you're not making enough sales.

LNT Bay helps service based business owners like coaches, consultants, and

experts to sell and market their business.

Win more four and five figure clients faster, feel better about selling,

and learn how to sell better.

The best place to connect with Helen is over on LinkedIn.

Helen, welcome to Architecture Business Club.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, it's very

Oh, it's a pleasure to have you here.

Tell me a bit about the dog training you've been doing.

That's something that I've been doing a bit lately.

I'd, I'd love to hear a bit about how that's been going with your puppy

before we dig into our topic today.

to sales actually, um, in the respect of like the consistency and

the relentlessness that you need to go at.

So, um, yeah, just, we've been doing, um, just basic stuff, but loose, loose leash.

training, so she's walking and not pulling, um, going for walks

was an absolute nightmare now, she's looking at me and, you

know, it's a lot more enjoyable.

And then with the other lab, we've been doing some, um, agility, which

I thought was all about, you know, like, Whether they can jump over stuff

and it's now about more like the hand signals and the commands that you give.

So, you know, we, we're doing like a little bit of something with each of them

basically, but yeah, it's going all right.

Just have to keep on it every single day.

yeah, that sounds cool.

So the agility bit, it's not like Krypton Factor for dogs, which is

what I would kind of imagine it to be.

Yeah.

It's a little bit, um, more dull down than that.

It's just getting them to go over a jump in the right order.

Um, so yeah, and then they get a bit of cheese at the other end of it.

So sometimes I feel like going over it just for a bit of cheese.

I'm going to say I'd do anything for that.

Um, yeah, you're right though, with the consistency thing, it's,

um, ours is a rescue dog and she's got various behavioral issues.

She's really nervous of people.

And, um, what we realized working with the dog trainer is it was more

like dog owner training than dog training, that actually it was just.

Mainly about how we are and, um, sort of helping us to, manage things better,

manage the situations and try and avoid a lot of the, the issues that

we'd had on, on dog walks and things.

But,

yeah, I very much thought it was a dog and I remember saying to the

dog trainer, I think there's something wrong with my dog, um, and she was like,

yeah, okay, let's just have a look.

And she was like, there's nothing wrong with that dog.

It's unfortunately, it's like you and you're not setting her up right.

You're not, like, giving her the best commands and the best instructions,

she's looking up to you, and we're just not doing the things that

we think that we should be doing.

So, again, very much like sales, isn't it?

You're over there doing the stuff that you think matters, and

actually it's this stuff over here.

So, uh, yeah, I liken it a lot to selling

absolutely.

Yeah, there's definitely some parallels there, isn't there?

So we, we are going to talk about sales and specifically, we're going to

talk about what to do when you're not.

Making enough sales.

So I think this is going to be a really useful episode for everybody.

So when sales slow down, how can architects stay calm and focus on

looking at this like a problem to be solved rather than panicking?

Because a lot of us do panic.

Don't we?

When sales slow down.

yeah and then what do you do with that panic you either go and do

some weird stuff or you go and think do things that you've never done before or

you go and do the same stuff but with this weird energy and it gets a little

bit graspy and grabby um and it comes across a bit weird to people as well

and they don't know necessarily what the word is they're just like that seems

a bit Not like that person normally.

So it's all like different levels of nuance here.

Um, but the first thing is not to panic.

It's going to happen.

It's going to happen at any stage of business.

Um, not just at the beginning.

Um, I've had to sell slump in.

I can't remember what year we're in.

What are we in?

End of 2024?

Back end of last year, start of this year.

Wasn't the best.

Um, but again, not to panic.

That is the first thing.

Yeah.

So yeah, don't that, that would be the natural instinct for most of us.

And

something's gone wrong.

So, well, you

yeah.

And if you, and if we do start to panic, then often we're not going

to be making our best decisions if we're in that state, are we?

Exactly, yeah.

Yeah, for sure.

Um, so I think the first thing is, it's going to happen at any point.

If it hasn't happened to you, fine, but I doubt you're going to go through your

business trajectory and this not happen.

Um, the first thing is, is it's not a problem and to look at it

with problem solving questions.

Um, instead of like something must be wrong, something's wrong with my

content, something's wrong over here.

Like.

That's a problem.

It puts us into a bit of a tailspin, um, when actually it could be just like,

what's the one thing that I can do to get some sales calls booked in or some visits.

However it is that you do your sales.

Um, that's.

Putting you more into problem solving mode versus being in like problematic mode They

feel very different and the actions like I say you could do exactly the same actions

But from a problem solving creative point of view, it's gonna feel a lot lighter

and it's gonna feel a lot Easier for your audience to grab hold of that versus

like another sort of version of it, which is Like I say, a bit graspy, a bit

grabby, a bit of, from, from desperation.

Yeah.

And, um, you mentioned actually that you touched upon this, um, where you were

talking about this approach when you're panicked, where you might be thinking

about trying all sorts of different things, but ultimately we can, we can

learn a lot from the past, can't we?

And I think that's something to recognize, isn't it?

That.

I mean, particularly, I think one of the things we talked about before

was about looking at your best months and what we can learn from that.

So what, what should we be looking for if we were to do that?

If we have a slow period and decide to look back how do we approach that?

What kind of patterns should we be looking for?

When we look back at past performance?

Yeah, it's a really good way of looking at this because when

you're, whatever's happening now is not caused by now, and we think it is.

We look around for like the, you know, like there's something that must be

happening now, and it's really easy to go, excuse It's never that it's usually

from my experience, something that you stopped doing or started doing,

or something that you are thinking and feeling that's causing you to act

in a certain way that's different.

So, for example, if you go back to your best month and then look prior

the two to three months prior to that best month, there will be something

in there that when you look at now.

So, for example, It's different.

So for example, it might be that you went to a lot of networking face to face.

Then you got really busy and then you got busy like discharging

that work and you stop networking.

And now you've got like this slump.

And so it's, it's always something.

It might be that you're still networking, but you see the slump coming and you

go at it with a really weird energy.

And it's actually repelling people rather than allowing people to come to you.

So it might be the doing thing.

Or it might be a thought thing, it might be both.

But for sure it's going to be something to do with the actions, how you're taking

them and how you're thinking about them.

Um, for me, with my slump, when I look back, I got a really weird

anxiety and I didn't want to drive.

Um, and I couldn't get behind the wheel of my own car and it was quite frightening

because this came on overnight.

I can only liken it to some kind of weird perimenopausal symptom or something.

When I speak to more people it's very common.

So I just stopped networking and 80 percent of my business

comes from networking.

So I turned the tap off without realizing it and this was like kind of a

subconscious and then a conscious choice.

And I was like, Oh, well, it'll be all right.

Things are still happening around me.

And it was only about six months later that I was like, Oh, things look like

they're really like about to drop off.

I wonder what's changed.

And I went straight to, well, clearly my content's not good enough.

Clearly I'm not saying the message often enough, clearly this.

And actually, when I look back at the good sort of trajectory months and what

was happening before that, it was the networking that I just stopped doing.

So.

It was all, you know, I can't get down the wheel of a car, fine.

But maybe you can go for virtually networking.

And again, there's thoughts that people have that like, yeah, but that's not

going to work or my clients aren't there.

That doesn't work for me.

You, you decide to make it work.

And I think one of the thoughts you can have is anywhere you go,

whatever mechanism you do, whether it's direct messaging, face to face

speaking slots, podcasts, whatever it is, you can produce an immense

amount of value for your audience.

And they will enjoy that and lean into it and you will create value.

So it doesn't matter where you go, but if you're telling yourself that that's not

going to work, then it's very unlikely you're going to see a result from it.

So you also need to become the person that just troubleshoots for this

and make stuff work, just decide that you're going to make that work.

So for me, I really do enjoy face to face.

And I've had that thought around, I don't really like online networking.

Actually, you can reach more people.

You can get into front of new markets because everyone's

got their own little audience.

Thanks.

Um, and actually you can make it work and I have one business

from, I have one more business now that I'm not on the road as much.

So, you know, so it's just looking at that from the first point, which is

it's not a problem, problem solving, and then like go and have a look at what was

happening from a thought point of view.

What were you thinking back then allowed you to create those high months

and what were you doing differently?

And you're going to have to be onto yourself because.

It's very easy for you to just go, well, nothing's changed.

You're going to have to really be onto yourself with the

doing actions and the thoughts.

How does it feel different now to make sales?

Does it feel harder?

Is there a sense that there's not as many people to sell to?

Because they're just thoughts that you've got.

So it might be nothing's changed.

You do the same actions, but those two thoughts need to change.

And that allows you to see more opportunity.

It allows you to step forward a little bit.

It allows you to be more proactive.

You know, when people meet you, you've got a different energy about you.

So sometimes it's the smallest of things that trip us up in sales.

That's really interesting.

There's, there's quite a lot in that.

There's the mindset side of things that you mentioned about how, how we

think and how that, how that comes across that you say, you could be

turning up to an event to beat people.

And if you're on a real downer, that's a, that's really going to affect how

you come across to people, isn't it?

And might affect the, the confidence that people have in you that,

um, because people want to feel like they're in safe hands.

And if you're not coming across confidently about what you offer,

then it's going to be really difficult to get those sales, isn't it?

Yeah.

I think you can repel people without realizing that's what you're doing.

that you mentioned about this.

Reflection and self awareness, not only about what you, how you were thinking

and feeling, but actually just looking at what activities were you doing and

how, you know, those led into them getting those sales and it creating that,

that better sales performance month.

Because I think, um, coming back to this thing of like the panic thing that people

might go through when things get really quiet, that we can start to Try, you

know, Oh, I've got to start doing this.

I need to start doing that.

And actually there might be some really simple actions that you could just

double down on have actually already worked for your business before.

And it could be something as simple as, as you say, attending the right networking

events, or maybe following up with past clients that you've already worked for.

Reaching out to your, your network.

I actually won an amazing piece of business recently that was

like five figures and it was from following someone up and honestly,

you couldn't even have written this.

If you ask your brain to get creative and think of the ways to make money and to

reach more people, it would never have thought of this, but I just was fine.

It was like a run out of space in my inbox.

I don't know if anyone's ever come up against that.

I mean, you guys all deal with really big files and things.

I'm sure you've got better, um, facilities than I have.

But it was like, it's maxed out.

And so I had to start deleting and archiving things.

And as I'm doing it, I'm looking at these files from old clients.

And I'm like, maybe I should just give them a email.

Uh, it's been two years, you know, I wonder how the team's

getting on and how it's changed.

I mean, that's a great question to reach out again, not salesy, but just like,

do you need some help with something?

It's been a couple of years.

What are you sort of seeing and sitting with right now?

Um, and, um, I thought, no, don't do that.

It's just, you'll be bothering them.

I get the same thoughts that you guys get, you know, like I'm not immune from it.

And, um, Actually, I thought, no, this is really in service.

Imagine if they are struggling and I just reach out and it's the right time.

And so I continued filing things away and I made a note of three or four people

that I was going to go and message.

Before I messaged one of them, honestly I couldn't even believe this, my

calendar pinged, and it was them.

And they were like, hey it's been a couple of years, but like, we

need some help with our sales.

You couldn't even write that, you couldn't even try and like, make that up as like

a way of getting some opportunities.

Um, and so I thought, Christ, what was I thinking that?

What about these other people?

And sure, some people didn't come back.

Some people ignored me.

Some people said no thanks.

Some people were like, not right now.

Um, we had a plethora of response.

But two pieces of business came in from that, and like I say, multi five figures.

So like, it's possible out there, somebody needs your help, and they

just need a little bit of proactivity, and a little bit of like, offers, for

like, do you need some help with this?

Thanks.

And it's, it's not from a, Oh, cause I want to make a sale.

It was genuine curiosity of, you know, I remember doing that training.

I remember that client.

I remember that build that I did.

I remember those designs.

That was really fun.

I wonder what they're getting on with now.

I wonder if they've got like a second property or something else, like

another portfolio and it's super helpful because if they're on the

other side and they're like, Oh, I should really kick this into gear.

I should really get on with this.

You know, is it not just so helpful when the two worlds meet?

Me, you know, and you step forward.

So yeah, so that's like something just go back for your

portfolio and ask the question.

Do you need some help with stuff?

You know, it's just super simple and just be okay with all the responses

because I didn't get all yeses with everyone gushing to say yes.

You know, I got ignored by some people.

I got no thanks.

You know, it's just, you're going to get like a plethora, but the more

you ask, the more you're proactive, the more you step forward, and then

you can just build that into common practice in your, in your practice.

I think actually the fastest way to get to a yes is

to get half a dozen or so no's.

Because if you are reaching out and you're going to get in most

instances more no's than yeses.

But you know, if you are, asking, then, you're going to get to that

yes a bit quicker, aren't you?

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Now, back to the show.

Yeah, you can, and this is such a great point, actually, if people

are saying no thanks because, and then you could write down the top three or four

things that people are saying no thanks.

Um, is there something that you can make a little offer for?

Or is there like a mini thing or starting point that you could offer people if

they're not ready for the full shebang?

You know, is there something, you might not want to do this, but it's

just if there's a market out there for something and people are saying

no because of this reason, because it took too long or it was too much money.

Is there something that we can do to engage those people with

like step one instead of asking them to take this leap over here?

Um, is it something non financial that you could just share with them?

Um, you know the things that you got you guys are creatives So for sure you can

create something but like have a think about the reasons why people didn't

want to go ahead And then see if you can make a mini offer to solve for that.

It doesn't have to be a paid one You know, just like something

that takes them a little step further on than where they are now.

Yeah, I love that.

And, um, I think as well, sometimes we assume that when somebody says no,

that that's a flat no, but actually no might actually mean not yet.

Yeah.

And, and why is it a no?

What's making them think it's a no?

Because they might be thinking in their head, which is truth, you

know, for them, their reality is that they can't do it right now.

It's going to take so much time.

It's going to take more out of them than what they can give.

They're going to need X, Y, Z to be finished, then they can do it.

And actually if you just went out and spent a bit of time with them, and

I'm not suggesting you drive all over the country for every client, but if

there's one where you know that you can really help them, and you think they

might just be getting this a little bit mixed up in their head, and actually

you can see a pathway forward where they don't have to do all that stuff, and

they could get started now, I would say it's your duty to explain that to them.

Not from a, oh because I get a sale then, I'll sell at them, but

from a, hang on a second, I'm, I'm the service provider here.

And I think they might be getting this a little bit the wrong way around.

So I wonder if I could just like maybe get my insight of what I'm seeing over

here across, and there's nothing wrong with bringing people to say, you know,

you said you needed X, Y, Z to fall into place before you say yes to this

kind of thought of a few things that might be more helpful for you where

you can get started a bit quicker.

Um, how open are you to just exploring that?

Can you give me half an hour?

Do you want me to come and see you?

Do you want a teams meeting?

Do you want to come to the office?

Um, it's super powerful, because you're thinking almost two, three steps

ahead, where they're like stuck here.

If you join them there, and you have the shared thinking that they

have, you can't get past that point.

Cause you're like, Oh yeah, I think that too.

I think you should wait.

I think you should just, yeah.

If you've got no money, like, okay, I'm out.

Like, can you think past that for them and then share that with them?

They might still be a no, they might not have the appetite for it.

They might just not want to do it that way.

They might not want to do it with you.

But at least you've been super helpful and you've been trying to think for them

instead of joining them with all the reasons why they can't get started now.

So that will be a really good thing.

Think of all the people that have said no and then just go

back and say, you know what?

I've thought of a way that we could maybe get started.

Do you want to have a chat?

Again, some people are going to say no, some people are going to say yes.

So that will be a really good thing for your architects to do.

Absolutely.

Yeah, I think as well that sometimes when we get a no or when it's a not

yet, that it would be really useful to understand if the, the prospective client

actually understands fully how long this whole process takes, because typically,

when You know, most clients, um, that we have in the world of architecture,

many of them, particularly on small projects or like domestic clients, where

they may be doing a home renovation or something they they're so far off

the mark with how long things take actually that preparation periods to

do all of the due diligence, to design something, to wait for planning approval,

building control, to find a contractor.

This can take many, many months, like even on a simple project, it

can be over six months or more.

If they're there sort of waiting, because it's like, Oh, well, we

don't need to rush into this.

And maybe the decent contractors might also have a wait list of over a year.

It's like, well, hang on.

If you, if you want to get started next spring, but you're holding off

from appointing, instructing somebody now, actually you, You haven't got

enough time to get snide next spring,

you see what I mean?

Like, this is the insight that you guys hold, that us as civilians, let's call

us, that haven't got the architect's, um, brain, we don't have that, uh, visual.

What would be really good, what came to mind there, is, especially

in quite an archaic industry where, oh, everything's kind of You know,

we're in suits, we're in offices, we carry briefcases, that kind of stuff.

Those kind of days are gone for you guys.

I know there's some really progressive architects out there.

And like, if you can get on like these kind of podcasts or videos or

any kind of infographic where you can explain to your clients the process.

And I know there's lots of variables, but generally speaking, it follows A, B, C, D.

This can take like a year.

So when you're sitting here going, Oh, I'm not sure if we can decide right now.

You can probably say yes.

And your first invoice point isn't going to be till here.

You know, again, you can start doing this in your quotes.

One of the best quotes I've ever seen from an architect was a PDF with a

little loom video that went alongside it and talked them through the quote.

And they got like 80 percent conversions because they were so interactive.

They'd almost thought of all the little chinks, all the thoughts, all the

hurdles, all the friction points that clients have, and just basically solved

for each one in a little video and it was only about two, three minutes long.

Um, and if you'd asked like, You know, would you do that in architecture

initially, their thoughts were like, Oh no, our clients won't like that.

Our clients won't go for that.

They want just the PDF.

They want everything, you know, just with the designs and the drawings.

And actually the clients wanted all their questions answering.

So this became a really interactive way to do that.

And they got amazing feedback from it, you know, absolutely amazing feedback.

So, you know, you can get super creative with how you go about doing this.

But if you can get in the steps of like how you help your clients, at what point

do they need to pay for what, you know, think of all their questions and hurdles

and you start putting that out in your content versus someone that's just putting

out the traditional technical stuff and PDFs, who are you going to lean into more

when you have a need for an architect?

So like you can be paving all this stuff.

You could use this downtime to start getting creative about your process,

about your quoting, about everything.

So, you know, like it's, again, it's never a problem.

How can we use this?

What are we going to be proactive with?

I think that's a great idea.

I mean, using content to answer customers questions and to essentially

what you're doing is your, your objection handling before they've

even raised the objection so that when you do get in the sales meeting with

them, that instead of them having.

50 questions in their minds.

They might only have two because you've answered all those questions already.

Yeah.

It makes you super relatable as well.

You know, like if the, Oh, he gets it or, Oh my God.

It's like, she's in my head.

You know, she's, I was thinking that the other day and she's

just done a post on this.

And then they're showing people, they're like, with their other

halves, they're like, come and look at this, come and look at this person.

So if, if there's an architect out there that Would like

to try and make some quick sales that needs to get some sales quickly

or generate some leads quickly.

What do you think are the best ways that they could do that?

If they need to get to try and get some sales as quickly as possible.

Yeah, so I would go back, I'd do the boring work and go back

to everybody that's engaged with you.

Anybody that's got a quote hanging.

like an unfinished conversation where you've had these conversations and

then like, Oh, I'll just let you know.

And they've drifted off and that's it.

I think going back re engaging those people, because somewhere in that pot

of people, there are going to be people that are ready to move right now.

They just need a little nudge.

They just need some time with you.

They need to ask their questions.

So I think the quickest one is people that have already engaged

somehow, but they're hanging here.

And you literally can just go back and say, you know what, we

didn't book those next steps in.

Let's come to the office, let me come out and see you at the property

or the plan or the plot, you know, whatever it is that you're designing.

And let's walk through where you're a bit stuck right now.

Let's get you, let's just get a plan.

And what that will do is it will give you some, some instant invoice points now.

It's going to plot a pipeline.

It's going to warm people up.

So that would be the first thing.

Go back to anybody that you've had a conversation with in the last year that

has, is just unfinished and hanging.

Um, the second thing it would be that stuff that we just talked about then about

getting creative and just go and start talking about all the reasons why you

think they're not taking the next step.

Like you, you get, in your mind and just think, why are people not booking a call?

Like what would be the one thing that people need to hear from me

that makes them feel really safe and secure to book a call with me?

Like, why are they not doing that?

And then you put that out in your marketing.

Um, and that's how you create safety for people to start leaning in.

Um, you make it okay for them basically to say no.

but you solve for that no.

So it's making it really clear why they should take that next step with you.

Um, I think if you start talking about results as well in your content, that

will be the one thing that I see that's missing a lot from, um, anybody's, uh,

marketing, not just architects, but I think specifically technical specialists.

We often forget to talk about the results that we get or we have a lot of thoughts

around yeah, my client's not going to go for that, they don't want to go

on video and tell the world that they were struggling with this, they don't

want to give away their IP or whatever.

You can do it behind closed doors and send that to me.

I've got that recording.

I could send that to like 20 people who were kind of hanging

around and not booking a call.

Like, look at what John's done when John and I have worked together.

Look at what's happening.

You know, these are the kind of results we've got in this kind of timeline.

So talking about before and after, talking about what's possible, talking

about the timeline it took to get them, how you've made that process

easier or quicker or took away the guesswork or, you know, what's possible.

held someone accountable or got them the result faster.

Like talking about all of that is super essential.

So I think results, process, that kind of stuff in your marketing, that's

going to be very like consistent stuff.

And then the quicker wins will come from you reaching out proactively to

the people that have engaged, that are kind of hanging a little bit, that

just need that little, little nudge.

So take that next step with you.

Or you can close it off and then you know that that's not going to go any further.

But that's, that would be what I would go and do.

I'd go and make people a ton of offers.

And I'd just have like a ton of activity going out.

Do you have any thoughts on when we do that outreach to people

that we have engaged with already, or perhaps we've sent a fee proposal to,

and maybe it's crickets that if we, maybe we feel like we're being ghosted.

Do you have any thoughts on how to, to deal with that?

Is it something where, are there any actions you would suggest

that we could do if we feel like we're being ghosted by somebody?

You can hear the rest of my conversation with Helen in the next episode.

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Remember.

Running your architecture business.

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This is architecture business club.