This is More Than Work, the podcast reminding

you that your self worth is made up of more than your job title.

Each week, I'll talk to a guest about how they discovered that for themselves.

You'll hear about what they did, what they're doing and who they are.

I'm your host, Rabiah.

I work in IT, perform standup comedy, write, volunteer, and of course podcast.

Thank you for listening.

Here we go!

Hey everyone, so there might be a little bit of background noise.

I'm actually at a pub in Cambridge, I'm near Cambridge University and I'm

doing a comedy gig up here tonight.

So it's been kind of fun lately to travel around and do comedy in different cities.

I went to Liverpool last week.

I'm going up to Edinburgh for Fringe, where a lot of friends

are gonna be doing their shows.

Actually, Phillip Simon was on the podcast recently and he's doing his

kids' comedy show as well as another show called Jew-o-Rama, which I'm

gonna be on, um, in a special role as the non-Jewish comedian in that,

that night or um, or that evening.

There's, uh, Jewish comedians in the lineup and then one who isn't.

So that'll be me.

This week I have Aunia Khan.

So she is someone who started her own business, which is a

theme, but also started another organization around art and healing.

And so we talk about both of those things and also her

living with a chronic illness.

It was interesting for me because I'm someone with a chronic illness.

I have Multiple Sclerosis and I've talked about that a little bit on the podcast

but she has a whole different ballgame to deal with with what she's dealing with.

And it was good to chat with her and understand more how she's been

affected, but how she's also kind of, it's hard to say, but like made

the most of things in a way, but really move forward and gives herself

a chance to rest when she needs to.

I think that's something we all need to do, but certainly when you're

living with a chronic illness, it's definitely something you need to do.

So I'm just gonna leave it at that.

I'm gonna leave it at, um, the thoughts I want people to maybe think about while

they're listening to the podcast are just really around, like what kind of barriers

are you dealing with sometimes that maybe you need to give yourself grace from?

So I think giving yourself grace was an important message in this, this

episode, if you happen to be in London and you're listening, I'm doing Camden

Fringe, August 7th, 9th, and 17th.

And if you're not in London, I know you can't come, but, uh, appreciate that

you know that I I'm trying to plug my show cause it's important, but go to

camden fringe dot com (camdenfringe.com)

if you can make it.

Uh, thanks everyone.

And have a great week or day or night or whenever you're listening

to this, just hope it's good.

Hey everyone.

So today my guest is Aunia Kahn.

She is a multimedia artist, creative entrepreneur, and the owner of Create

for Healing and Light Owl Design.

So we're gonna get into what all of that means.

First of all, thanks for being on Aunia.

Oh, on, thank you for, for having me

Yeah.

I'm really excited to chat with you.

So first of all, where am I talking to you from?

having me.

I am currently in Eugene, Oregon

nice, nice.

And, how long have you lived in Oregon?

Since 2015.

I'm from Michigan, initially and lived a lot of my life in the Midwest

and then moved to the west coast.

Awesome.

Yeah.

And, and Oregon's so beautiful.

So first of all, I guess your main, like breadwinning kind

of job is graphic design.

Right and having, Light Owl Design?

Yep.

We really focus on like web design and platform building, and then

we do graphic design and branding.

So like building up people's and different companies, branding, and the whole,

the overall package of it, you know.

Coming in branding, getting people going.

Getting a website going.

We also work on marketing and help people build social media strategies

and email marketing strategies.

So we're like a full service agency that does all the things.

And a lot of little other things that, you know, we don't really advertise,

but of course, you know, we do like video editing and photography

and all the, all the things.

Yeah.

Like once you're doing, if someone asks, if you can do it, then it's

kind of like, that's a new service you're all of a sudden providing.

Totally.

Yep.

You gotta niche down, but also, you know, be, be willing to be open for

things, but not to not too open.

So that's why we don't advertise a lot of the other things we do.

Cause we're like, we don't wanna sound like we do 500 things,

you know, we wanna sound like we we're, we do the things that we do.

And if we work with you and you might need other things, we might talk to you

about, if we can provide that for you.

Cool.

And so how did you initially, I guess, decide to found your own agency and

also just get into design in general?

Well, it's a very unique story that I don't think I've ever told.

Years ago I was in music and, um, had my own band.

I was kind of like a female Nine Inch Nails.

I'm not comparing myself to Nine Inch Nails because they're legendary,

but just in the same genre, like electronic, I did all of my own

synth lines and drum beats and vocals.

And I needed to create an album cover.

So I had a friend who worked in web design.

He worked for a company that was getting rid of old computers.

And so he just said to me, Hey, I have this PC, it's got Photoshop

on it, and Dreamweaver on it.

This like back in, you know, 1990 something like 96, 97.

And I went ahead and I, I said, sure.

And then I dove right in, started learning how to build websites.

I started learning how to create my own album covers.

And that's really how it started from one person just opening this door and

saying, "Hey, you were interested in this.

Would you like to dabble in it?"

to now 24 years later, you know, this is, has been able to keep me

financially solvent, especially through a lot of my health issues.

So I have to say, thank you so much for that person for doing that for me.

that's amazing.

And did you teach yourself at that point or did you end up going to

classes or how did you go about it?

So I'm very much into being self-taught with everything I do.

Not that I have any issue and not that I haven't taken courses on different

things and looked, you know, into other mentorships, cuz you can only

learn so much on your own, right?

I mean, there's always this ability when connecting with others or going to

courses where it's going to challenge you into the thinking outside of

the box, which is important to me.

But the majority of it was really self-taught as well as you know,

he did teach me some things and then it's trial and error.

I like puzzles.

I like to figure things out and kind of like we were talking about

services and kind of how they expand.

It's the same reason why we kind of touch into different places because if I

have an opportunity to learn something.

I get bored real easy.

I'm gonna go like, okay, let me learn that.

let me go ahead and like check that box off and go, like, I've done that.

Maybe I'm not great at it.

Maybe it's not a service I offer.

Maybe it's something I don't do again, but I'm so interested in learning

and so interested in expanding what I can do in all facets of my

life that it's hard for me not to want to, like, what is happening?

What are we doing, squirrel?

You know, like,

Yeah, but it's good because you, you kind of can then

get deeper into certain subjects or skills if you want, or you can have at

least, knowledge that's workable that sometimes like, for me, I think just

having that knowledge helps me call out BS when I need to or decide this is not

something I know very well, but then I can find someone who does and just

kind of, you know, just realize that so I think it is cool to be like that.

Totally agreed.

And even with, you know, clients that I work for having knowledge in different

things, kind of like you're saying, even if they're not my expertise, it does help

me go like, oh, I don't know if that's such a great idea, maybe you should

look for someone else who does that, you know, so that you're not getting taken

advantage of by somebody because in, in the industry that I work in, there's a

lot of people who are like, "I'm graphic designer, I'm a web designer" cuz they

know how to kind of throw things together.

And that's great.

Like I encourage people like if you wanna do it, do it, you know, that's fine.

But there's a difference between professional in any field and somebody

who's just kind of dabbling in it, right.

And if you want your, you know, your sister, brother, you know, your,

your nephew's wife or whatever...

doing, that's totally fine, but also you wanna be safe and careful

with the choices you make, if you wanna elevate your business.

Right.

So

absolutely agree.

so then you learned how to do design graphic design and other things.

And at what point did you decide to found your own agency or create

your own agency versus working for other people at different places?

I have been doing this on my own for 24 years, so

the whole entire time it's been me working directly with clients,

usually freelance or contract work.

I've not really worked with anybody else or been hired by anybody else to do this.

As in, within their construct of their business, being like an employee.

I did take a couple steps in doing that from, from time to time.

I mean, I'm talking like maybe three times in my whole career, and it never seemed

to work out very well because we have just so much going on so many different

people, but one thing I have always really missed out on is working with myself.

And then being able to like send work to other people that I know

or now, um, my partner's actually a part of my business because of COVID.

So that was, that was an interesting change for us.

It's kind of been my own thing until then, but the difference is, is being

able to work with lots of different people is great, but I still have this,

like, I kind of wish that I could like work with one company only and just one

person and have one goal because when you're working with, you know, 20 plus

clients, it's actually quite difficult to keep it all together, cuz it's a lot of

different needs, a lot of different wants, you know, people are pulling on you.

And it, it can be very, you have to be pretty organized.

You have to, um, thank gosh, I am very, very organized person like

ridiculous, but it's, it's difficult.

And so I, I crave that.

I always have.

But every time I, I go in that direction, it seems like it's not the best thing

for me because I do need, again, like we talked about earlier, the challenges.

I will get bored easy.

Mm-hmm well, I, I mean, I've worked

for a while now in consulting.

I've worked as, as an employee of companies for a long time, but have

had different clients before I moved into marketing, which I'm doing now.

With the longer term ones, one thing that is nice is you do form sort of a team with

them and you get to know their business and know them well enough where you kind

of create that coworker kind of feel, but then you're not embedded in their business

so you can also maintain your autonomy.

So I always kind of like that.

Do you get that feel sometimes?

Yes, I do.

I absolutely.

I absolutely do.

You know, with doing what, what I've done, rather than a

want right, to be my own thing.

It's been more based on needs with medical, that I've had to be

able to control my environment.

I've had to be able to control my hours.

You know, if I'm having a sick time, I have to be able to navigate that.

And as much as COVID's been very difficult for other people, for

me, it's actually not been cause I've already been house bound.

I already was bed written.

Like I've already worn masks prior to this was ever hip.

Like I'd walk down the street and I had people looking at me asking me

questions, and now I feel like if I go out, no one asks me questions,

which is kind of nice, right.

But I wish that, you know, it went the other way around.

I truly wish that I would've joined the normal, the normal world, the

non-mask world prior to COVID, rather than everybody kind of joining my

odd, you know, place that we're all in right now with mask, no mask, whatever.

But with my business itself, It is really nice to be a part of that culture, the

company culture, to be included in things to have that long term relationship

and long term goals, but also know that you're not so ingrained in it, that it

can be all encompassing or, you know, you can kind of remain a bit autonomous

and there's a little bit more freedom in that, even though I still crave that.

And that's probably very different than the average

person who's worked a normal job.

Who's worked for the man or had, you know, an employer, I think right now with the

work culture changing, a lot of people are like, man, I don't wanna be under anybody.

I wanna work from home.

You know, all of these things.

And I, as a person who's spent the last 24 years working from home, I do miss

the like in person culture or being a, a larger part of something yet.

I know if I was probably just like shoved into a job that that was the only

like, here you just work for this one company, I don't think that I would, you

know, thrive as well, even if there's that, that need for, do you want that?

But also depends.

I'm sure you understand where you've been, you know, how have

you been able to live your life?

And we all want what we don't have, right?

So you work for the man.

You wanna work for yourself.

And then people who've worked for 20 plus years for themselves have

this feeling of like, man, it would be so much easier to work for the

man, cuz I gotta do all the things, you know, I gotta do all the things.

It's a lot to be self-employed.

It takes a lot of energy to be a self-employed person, a lot of discipline.

It's, you know, sometimes it can be considered easier to like, Hey.

Look, I can get in my car, get on public transit, walk to work,

whatever, go somewhere, have somebody tell me what to do.

I'm gonna do my job.

And then I'm gonna come home rather than being an entrepreneur

where work unfortunately goes through all parts of your day.

It goes into your weekend.

It slips into your evenings.

You know, even if you're passionate about it, even if you love it, right, it's still

Yeah.

Totally.

And you've mentioned.

Uh, an illness and chronic illness.

And I guess one thing that's good about you having your own business is you don't

have to necessarily worry about losing your job, but taking time off and stuff.

And like you said, you can adjust your hours, but also I imagine there's

a challenge too, of when your ill and going through a rough time, then

it's hard for you to do your work.

And really, you know, you don't have like a, a safety net in a way.

So, do you wanna talk a little bit about your illness and just how

you've navigated that with, with work and, and your life basically?

sure.

And what you said is, you know, very true.

There's bonuses to, you know, work on your own and be an entrepreneur.

, but also when you have a chronic illness, there's also a lot of weight

and, and things that you, you know, you don't get paid for sick days.

You don't have, you know, leave, like if you've worked another job.

You can have a medical leave or whatever the case may be.

So there is that flexibility, but there's also a lot of risk.

So for me, um, I have EDS, I have Ehlers-Danlos Syndrome as well

as mass cell activation disorder.

And I also have dysautonomia and my dysautonomia is really

PoTS, Postural tachycardia.

So it's this big cluster stuff.

And the easiest way to explain this is EDS is a connected tissue disorder.

So, basically every organ, every part of my body that has connective tissue,

which is basically where your collagen is, every part of your body it's weak.

It doesn't, it's not being produced well.

So you'll see it with people with like really flexible, like if somebody's

really flexible and they could like bend their finger back or whatever.

There's a difference between being flexible and being hyper mobile.

Flexible is a natural that somebody has worked, worked that way, or

they're just generally flexible and they're not hurting themselves.

If they're doing that.

Somebody who, um, is not flexible, who's hyper mobile means your joints are

moving in ways that they should never do.

And it's actually pulling on your tendons, it's pulling on things.

And if you keep doing that, you're not gonna have elasticity anymore.

And some people with EDS can't like even close their hands and grip things.

A lot of us can't walk.

Um, well I spent a lot of time walking into walls thinking I was

just tall and lanky, Andy , which has been my whole life and, hence EDS.

So, and I got diagnosed with that last July.

And I had diagnosed with mass cell, you know, a couple years before, but it's been

a 20 plus year experience for me and very invalidating to have people continually

say there's nothing wrong with you.

You know, it's in your head, you have mental health problems, which is a

chronic situation with invisible illness, as well as often for women,

not that men don't experience this, they absolutely do, it's not gender specific.

However, women are often blown off, more based on hormones.

And so, um, very destabilizing.

Ended up on a feeding tube formula.

Ended up getting in so many arguments with doctors.

And, you know, finally in, in 2018, I got my mass cell diagnosis,

which gave me medication.

I was having allergic reaction.

So mass cell is.

You have these lovely cells in your body and they're supposed to protect you.

So if you go outside and you have allergies and you start

sneezing, that is your mass cells.

They're here.

They're like we are the army and we're gonna take care of you.

Well, people with mass cell disease, the army goes off all the time.

So the army goes off when I'm too hot, the army goes off.

When I'm too cold, the army goes off.

When somebody drives by and there's base in their car, the army goes off.

When I get upset, the arm army goes off.

Like anytime that, or I exercise.

So anytime that you're, you are releasing anything adrenaline or your

body's trying to work to regulate you, that's when they go off.

And so I was having two to three allergic reactions a week for

years upon years on end and in the emergency room and in urgent care.

And everybody's like, it's anxiety.

I'm like pretty sure it's not.

Um, but what are you gonna do when there's testing?

For all of the, all of these things are multisystem.

So you're dealing with lungs, you're dealing with your heart, you're

dealing with your digestive track, your reproductive organs, your brain, your

neck, you know, with there's a lot of people with, um, EDS that have Chiari

where your neck is so unst unstable, that part of your brain can like slip

out and you, can you get all pinched.

And people are having reactions and they're like, yeah, it's anxiety,

but it's, it's one of those things that you, you just deal with.

And so I was very negatively affected by how I wasn't taken

seriously and finally getting the EDS diagnosis in July of last year.

I still right after that was like, I'm not sure.

I'm not a hundred percent sure.

Maybe not, you know, because you've been gas lit for so long, you

know, people like there's nothing.

I still in this very moment go, do I really have it?

It's like I have all the science we've done the testing.

Like it's all there.

But back to work with that, it's, it's made it, it's difficult for me when I'm

having a rough time, because I like a lot of people with chronic illness when

I feel good, I push myself too far.

then when I'm sick, I recover and I feel guilty about it.

I feel bad.

And I'm, I'm not, I'm not participating in the world and I'm not a worthy person.

And you know, all of these narratives that are very toxic.

And then when I'm able again, I then push again.

And so it creates this.

This thing that I'm working very hard on and part of the reason I'm sharing it.

Because I think anybody in the chronic illness world or that are struggling,

understands this like pivotal thing that goes back and forth, right?

Like this, like I'm, I'm sick and I must take care, but, but

I'm forced to take care and now I'm, I'm decent enough right now.

I'm gonna push myself and do as much as I possibly can, right?

I'm gonna overextend myself so that I can like show up in the world.

In the last few years, I've had to really work on that balance.

So that's, that's been a super big challenge and I still deal with every

day, like, okay, slow down, crazy lady.

You know, I'm already hyper I'm hyper.

I talk fast, you know, I'm already like anyway, so it's, it's so

hard to like be caged, right.

Be caged in.

So.

Well, it is.

And I mean, a lot of it's relatable to me.

I mean, one thing is like I have celiac disease and it's not that

big a deal, like what you're talking about, but you know, I can't eat

gluten, but it's a disease first of all, that people, no one can see.

So it's invisible.

But also one that people kind of make fun of.

Cause like, everyone wants to talk about how gluten intolerance versus

celiac and you know, then they assume they know what it means for you.

And then they make fun of it,.

Right?

So it's like funny that people can I'm gluten and it's fake

and whatever, but also getting diagnosed with that took about five

years for me, which is ridiculous.

And I was offered a hysterectomy at one point.

It's like for an autoimmune disease, for me being allergic to gluten, I should get

a hysterectomy because obviously it was cuz I was a woman cause I was low on iron

and it just so it's I totally understand how they just say you're a woman.

It must be something related to you being a woman.

Mm-hmm

for sure.

ridiculous.

It's it's and so people have to be advocates for their health.

Like you have to, and it's really, it is discouraging.

So.

I totally get that.

And you went through it for very, very many years so of course when you got the

answer, you were unsure at that point.

Mm-hmm . Yep.

And you have to be like you just said, I really wanna, I wanna hit that home.

You have to be an advocate for yourself.

If you know that something is wrong with you, it doesn't matter if your spouse

doesn't believe you, your doctors don't believe you, your kids, your friends.

It does not matter what other people think it doesn't.

If you feel like something's wrong.

And even if it's mental.

Let's say it is, let's say you feel like there's something wrong.

And it really is a mental health problem, you know?

And it's not like an organ issue, cuz obviously this is all physical

health wrapped in together.

Then, then that's something too, right?

It all matters.

If you don't feel right, then you don't feel right and people around

you definitely need to support you and you should just not give up.

I mean, there's so many times I wanted to give up.

I can't tell you how many hundreds of different doctors and people

trying to convince, trying to do tests, you know, and it's hard

not to be like, well screw it.

I mean, at one point they wanted to put me in an eating disorder

facility and I said, fine.

I said, if you think I have an eating disorder, cause I can only eat 10 foods.

I'm basically allergic to all food.

Um, sometimes water at times.

And so I can eat 10 foods in the same order.

Every day for the last 10 years, since 2012, but I'm stable.

And if that's what I have to do to survive and not be on a feeding tube formula,

fine, food is not enjoyable for me.

It is a life, you know, it's a substance to keep me alive

and that's all that matters.

However, you know, it, it doesn't matter, you know what goes on for you, even if

somebody was to say like, oh, okay, you have an eating disorder, which they did.

I said, fine.

Put me in an eating disorder facility.

Let's go ahead because you know what, maybe I'm not as

self-aware as I think I am fine.

Let's give that a try.

Let's check it out.

I'm open.

And of course, you know, they, they, they come in, they check things out

and you're like, yeah, you pretty much don't have an eating disorder.

I.

You know, but I met one of my most amazing counselors through that facility.

So I, you know, everything happens for a reason.

And even if it sucks, I ended up meeting an amazing counselor at that time in

an eating disorder facility who then worked with me on my aversion to food.

Because every time I ate something, my throat would close and I would

start having this horrible reaction.

And so she was able to work with me.

So it moved me into a place where I needed to be with somebody who, uh, got it.

But also, you know, it felt very demoralizing to like, you know, be like,

oh, pretty sure I don't, I love food.

I would eat like.

I see a whole pizza when I was a kid like, oh, you know, I could

do a whole medium pizza on my own.

Like I like to eat.

This is not why we're here right now.

, you know, we don't have choices

true with, you know, with celiac, which kind of what I started out with.

And obviously it's OB not more severe, but different.

It doesn't matter if you can not eat gluten or you can't eat all foods.

Or if you have to avoid one thing or not, people need to start respecting

people for what they can and cannot do.

Right?

Like it doesn't, doesn't behoove you or me to live our lives,

avoiding things like bread.

Hello, who doesn't want bread and butter and gluteny tasty stuff.

Like, I don't think anybody's out there going, like I wanna be gluten intolerant

because it sounds like it's a good thing.

It's fun.

Yeah, it's, it's more expensive and it's annoying.

And then, and you have to always put up with it.

And then as far as the whole thing too, with the invisible illness and then

pushing yourself, I totally get that.

And I've shared on here.

And I shared with you earlier that I have multiple sclerosis.

And so I am a person who's also very driven like you and I, I will, I'll

push myself and I'll constantly hear, especially from my mom, but from other

people you need to not be stressed out.

You need to do less.

You need to rest more.

And it's like, I get that.

But I also know that there is a big chance that one day I will not

be able to do what I can do today.

Yes, that is it right there.

That is, that is the, like, that is the gospel right there.

Like I wanna do what I can do because I don't know how I long

I have to be able to do that.

And I think there's a lot of people who don't deal with chronic illness or

certain types of circumstances in their life that don't understand that urgency.

You just have a different perspective because it's

not just about dying at that point.

Like cuz people say, well you could get hit by a car any day.

Yeah.

That's true.

Okay.

Not if you're sitting in your flat all day, you're not going to, but

, but there's, there's a thing about doing what you can while you can.

And I think, and learning at a pretty young age that that's, that's the reality.

And one thing that you have a value that's very similar to mine too, is, um,

service to others, I would say, right.

Super important.

yeah.

And so I wanna talk to you about Create for Healing because outside

of the work you love doing with other businesses, you're also doing,

you also have this organization.

So can you talk about Create for Healing?

Sure.

And yeah.

You know, like you said, with yourself, it's, it's really

important to help others.

And I think when you can, let's, let's put that as a, a thing because

sometimes people feel obligated that they should help others or whatever.

And it's like, no, you don't have to, if you can, and you have the ability to, and

that serves you in a good way, then yes.

If you're helping others at a detriment to yourself, it causes you stress and

all that, then that's not serving others because you have to serve yourself

before you can serve other people.

So Create for Healing is an educational platform where we mix healing from

trauma, working with, you know, medical illness, working with grief, working

with healing from narcissistic abuse.

We have other things that aren't as deep topics.

We have kids courses, um, that work in things like identity, building up

identity, working with your inner child, even courses that are just like play

like, okay, we're just gonna like paint a portrait cuz not everything has to be

therapeutically um, you know, focused, but it's, it's really taking education

and fun and creativity and pairing it with healing for ourselves, because for me as

a human being, I have used healing and art without wanting it or thinking about it.

So I never wanted to be an artist.

I'm an internationally renowned artist.

I show in, you know, I've showed a museums and galleries.

There's tons of press about what I've done.

I've been very fortunate to have an art career.

Like it's difficult to do that.

And for me, I never did the art as like, I want to like be in galleries

or I wanna be a well known art.

Like I never cared about that.

It was really, I need something to hold onto to keep me on this planet.

Cause I don't know how long I'm gonna live and I need something to work through what

I'm dealing with and because I'm a driven person, I saw the window of, I could

maybe do something successful with it.

I could maybe have a goal which gave me something in my life

to, to work towards too, right.

Cause I'm very goal centered.

I have 407,000 people follow me on Facebook and it's

important to do the thing.

And in COVID it really changed me.

Like, no, that's never why I did art.

Never was the reason.

And I need to come back to my roots.

My roots are art is healing.

My roots are art and creativity.

And again, I wanna say art is not being a painter.

Art can be organizing your house.

Art can be working on a car.

Being creative isn't just for painters.

Being creative comes at every part of our lives, right?

And so in doing that, coming back to my roots, I also was able

to touch some physical mediums.

That's another reason why I kind of returned back In 2018, which then

alleviated a lot of my allergic reactions.

So then I started kind of testing the waters with traditional mediums,

first with, with colored pencil, and then next with watercolor.

And before it was like life threatening for me to touch these things.

Now I had more of like, I had a, a safety net.

I have medication.

I have support.

Like if I start to feel bad, I know I have something I can take care of it.

And so by moving into traditional media, I suck like, you know,

I have what happened years from 2005 until now doing digital work.

I have honed my craft.

There's always something to learn, but I've been doing it for almost two decades,

you know, like I'm pretty good at it.

You throw me into traditional and I'm like, I suck.

This sucks.

You know, I'm not great at it.

And that's okay.

But it really humbled me.

It humbled me.

It changed me.

It made me realize like, this is why I do it.

Would I rather work in traditional media cuz it's healing and I could touch

things and I get to have this tactile experience I haven't got to and, and

make a mess of it and look stupid?

Or do I wanna stick with what I know because that's what everybody

claps and pats me on the back for?

And that's not what I want.

And then that opened another door to Create for Healing.

That's where that kind of like, oh, this is my mantra.

This is my root system.

This is the core of my being.

And how can I serve?

How can I bring that to other people?

How can I open them up to coming into that creative space in a, in

a reasonably affordable way to then after heal and work through things

that, that they're needing to?

So we launched it.

I got my diagnosis in July of last year, and within two

weeks I bought the domain name.

I got crazy and I just built the whole platform on the back end.

It was really nice to be able to take what I knew and be able

to serve, you know, my passion, cause this is not a money project.

Would I love to make money from it?

Absolutely.

Who would not wanna make money off of their time?

But right now, it's really trying to get it out there.

We make our classes very, very affordable and we do what we can, and we offer blog

posts to different projects all around the healing aspects of creativity.

I wish I could dedicate more time to it for sure.

But my partner's also working with that at it too.

So he has integrated himself into both of these, which has been really

healing for both of us, cuz we both have had our own challenging journeys.

So yeah, it's been, it's been nice to not be alone in it cuz usually it's

just me, myself and I doing a thing.

And now it's nice to have that, you know, partnership where I can powwow

and we can talk about different ideas and I'd love to have that grow.

We have, we have guest, uh, blog people.

We have, you know, things that we're opening courses for other people.

So if anybody's listening and they may have a course or some, you

know, wisdom about healing and art, we're really, really open for

community and would love to have guest people share their knowledge.

Cuz I clearly don't know everything that's for sure.

You

Yeah, I actually, I participated in at SXSW a couple years

ago in art thing but it was really, it was helpful because it was actually

about just coloring basically, but your feelings around something you know

that, that she was talking us through and it was, it was really cool because

it was a way to get something out.

I'm I'm a writer.

I mean, that's my art pretty much, but it was nice to do

something in a different way.

Got my brain working in a different way.

Got other emotions out that I wasn't sure about.

And I even think that like, people do the vision boards, right?

And I think that's a form of art in getting things out too.

And so I, I agree that art, whatever it is, music or painting or any of

these other things, just cutting paper out and taping it to something else

and all that stuff really helpful.

Yeah.

There's no pressure in like, what, what is art?

There's so much negative things about like, you're not an

artist you're not good enough.

It's like, no creativity has been with us.

For thousands of years, we need to create, we need to express ourselves.

And I do wanna talk on your writing.

Writing is really important.

We do journal prompts and things like that.

We include writing as a part of what we do and writing is, is so

therapeutic for people, even just visual journaling or writing journaling, or

having, you know, little prompts about things that you're going through.

It's, it's so important for us as people, whether or not it's chronic

illness, you've dealt with trauma.

You're going through just maybe a hard time at the moment right now.

Maybe you lost somebody, maybe you lost your job.

Maybe you're just depressed because COVID sucks and you've been bored inside.

Doesn't matter, you know, like it's what it is, but taking it out of your

mouth, taking it out of your head, getting it out there, whether or

not it's, it's more you know, more thought out, like I'm writing it out.

And I'm actually thinking about my writing, right?

I'm writing it and I'm thinking, or I'm pulling it out and I'm doing something

abstract where it's subconscious.

The more that we speak it out, the more that we get it out, the more ability we

have to heal things or deal with things because every person in the entire world,

who's listening to, this has struggled.

We are human.

We're having a human experience.

And if we're able to see ourselves, witness ourselves, maybe be within

groups, have other people witness you.

If not even just your own witnessing your own experience of getting it out

there can just really help you touch it in a different way, rather than it

just spinning in your head all the time.

You know, it's just up there just living up here, this anxieties

living up here, these depressive thoughts are living up here.

I'm feeling bad about my myself.

You know, all these things just live here.

We have control.

That's, what's beautiful.

We have the control to remove these things and, and, and put them out

on the table and, and, and do it.

And when I say control, I wanna clarify cause I know people

get up in arms about that.

Like, we don't have control over everything.

Like we can't control, you know, what happens.

That is also very true, but we, we can work very hard at our

reactions and how we deal with it.

And maybe we won't deal with it well, and that's okay too.

We don't have to be perfect.

We do not have to be perfect, but we have the option to react the way we wanna react

and, and deal with things the way we wanna deal and be gentle with ourselves when we

can't, if we can't, we can't deal with it.

That's okay too.

You wanna cry and put yourself in a little ball and hate everything.

Totally normal.

Do it.

Get those emotions out.

However, however you can, but creativity is a, a really lovely way to tap into

it in, in a bit of a different way.

yeah, yeah.

And it's boundary setting and it's realizing you can, like,

you're saying control your part.

I mean, we saw someone just, you know, this is right after the Oscars.

We saw someone who did not control.

Their emotions in a very specific situation.

And for me watching that was really awful because I know I've

been that angry and I know that I've done things I'm not proud of.

I haven't hit people, but done other things and said things, you know,

were, again, words are my weapon.

Right.

And they're also my art and they're also how I express myself.

And so I think, yeah, realizing that you can control what you do

and you can't control what other people do is super important.

And so I agree about the control part, but if you're doing art to try to control

someone else, it's not gonna work.

So don't, don't do it for that reason.

Maybe a voodoo doll.

I don't know.

Totally.

Emotional control is sexy.

That's all I have to say.

control is super sexy.

I like, I like emotional intelligence, but we also have to realize that

people make mistakes in life.

Yeah.

A hundred percent and, and, and we make mistakes.

And when we make mistakes, we have to forgive ourselves just as much as,

you know, we maybe need to seek it from somewhere else sometimes because

that's really the hardest person to deal with sometimes is yourself.

That's right.

And know that there are consequences, you know, for the mistakes that we do make.

Nobody wants to hurt other people.

I'm not naive, but generally speaking, I don't think people wanna

go out and seek to harm others.

What we want for ourselves, which is, you know, peace and love and

care and we wanna be accepted and we wanna be a part of groups.

And, you know, we wanna be seen and validated is the same

experience everybody else wants.

Can you talk a little bit about your art career, cuz you are,

uh, an artist who is in galleries and you have had success there besides just

having your business as well that you have where you're doing graphic design

and branding and marketing and everything.

But um, can you talk a little bit about your art career?

So the art thing is, is something I didn't

ever expect to be doing.

Like it's one of those things where, when I was younger, I wanted to be

either a therapist or a surgeon.

Like that's what I wanted to do.

I wanted to cut out cancer or I wanted to fix your, your weary mind.

Obviously with things happening in my life, those dreams

were unfortunately shattered.

And as I started to progress down at a, a really bad place with my

illness, I, I like looked after art as a way to express that.

So work that I started doing, you know, a little bit before 2005,

that's really kind of when the career started, but I was doing stuff before

then was very dark, like very, very, very dark, dark, dark, dark stuff.

We're talking, um, you know, pieces where, um, it does to depict.

A bit of, uh, domestic violence and controlling and, um, not positive

topics, but for me, I, again, I wasn't doing it for public.

I was doing it because I needed to resolve some things inside of myself.

And one day I was at a park and it was one of the first times I had

gotten out in a really long time.

And, um, at the time the person I was with was like, you know, we should go to this

park, they're having this thing for kids.

I said, sure.

Cause I wasn't leaving the house very much.

You know, I've been very isolated.

So this guy walks up to me and he asked me if he can photograph me.

And at this time I had like black hair, dark lipstick.

I was much more in my goth phase.

So, you know, apparently I was this anomaly in this small little town in like

Southern Illinois with these kids and he is like, can I take a photo of you?

And I'm like, who are you weird man?

Like, I don't think so.

Like that's a no.

And he goes, oh, he works for the paper.

And so I realized who he was.

He was a photographer for the paper.

Let him take my picture.

And then with my music career, I ended up needing a photograph

cause I was in this calendar like.

I don't know, 20 something years ago, uh, for goth industrial music and I

needed a professional photograph of me.

And so I reached out to him and then we became friends.

He saw my work like work work.

Cause obviously at the little event I was, you know, painting on a picnic table,

but he saw my work suggested I submit to galleries, help me frame my work.

Um, help me walk through the submission process, which was very different now.

Like we had to create slides.

So that'll date me..

Old now.

So we had to do slides and that's how it all kind of started with this

one person really supporting that.

And I started to go, okay, like this might be, I got accepted in

one of my first shows was really intense because the work was dark.

Like again, digital, wasn't a think back then my work was also very dark.

And so I remember it being up on the wall.

and, um, I stood back.

I was very uncomfortable, was not good at being in social situations at all,

or even the stress of going somewhere.

Like the nervous stress for me would cause allergic reaction.

Like most people who, you know, have anticipatory anxiety, you

know, it doesn't feel good, period.

No one likes it.

It's not a good feeling, right?

And then you add an allergic reaction on top of it, which is fun.

So I was not doing well, but I saw this woman in front of my work

and I actually saw her tear up.

And in that moment, it was very affirming to me that by putting my

vulnerabilities out there, that it was meaning something for somebody.

And since I didn't have a lot of hopes and dreams and goals, cuz I

was so sick, to have that moment of impact on a human being was like,

yes, this is where I need to go.

And so I continued on that path of creating those narratives

and sharing those stories and sharing those works of art.

Things have shifted with my career over the years.

I have an art book that shows 13 years of my career from very dark kind of muted

colors, moving into these other stories of more lighter, um, more healed kind of

depictions of my world and the art that I do, except for recently, since I've been

doing the traditional has always been me.

So I've used myself as a subject matter in the work.

It's like these stories and this art are so soul centered.

It's so about every part of my struggle and I didn't have the access to models.

I didn't have the access to other people.

And when I did like try a good friend of mine doing it, it didn't come out

the same, cuz it wasn't the same story.

It wasn't the same narrative.

So I used myself as the subject and I'm so glad now with the,

you know, the traditional media I've worked, I moved past that.

I'm kind of over.

I'm like, I'm not my subject anymore.

I'm pretty good.

I've worked it all out.

Now.

I've been focusing on other subjects.

And when I started with watercolor, I put out this call for art, for portraits

and asked people to submit their photos if they wanted to be painted for free.

And you know, for, I think about six months I did it and then I

got pretty burned out and I had to take a break and I'll probably,

uh, return to this project again.

But I painted people, people in wheelchairs, people of different

races, people of different ages.

People with EDS.

And so many of the people that submitted to that project

were all so different, right?

They all had their own stories.

They all had so much about their life that they wanted to tell.

And it also helped me as an artist, be able to learn more about different faces.

Cause I've been painting my own face for so long.

I really don't wanna see my face.

Like I really don't, but that.

That was a connection for me.

And so, yeah, I did that and that was a beautiful, wonderful connective project

to kind of learn a little bit more about painting in the traditional way.

And then we're just kind of where we are now, you know,

where I'm just doing the thing.

Have a couple amazing galleries that I love, but I'm not heavily

focused on social media anymore.

I'm not heavily focused on the success of it.

Who's gonna like it?

Who's not gonna like it?

You know where I'm at in my career.

It's like, Hey, if you want me to show with you, I will.

And if you love my work, that's great.

And if you're willing to go with me through my ups and downs and trials

and tribulations and crap work that I'm making and maybe pieces that I'm

proud of and other pieces that I'm just like, wow, This is awful then

yeah.

Share that with me, but I wanna be a vulnerable artist.

You know, I don't wanna everything I put out in the world.

I don't want it to be curated and perfect and have give expectations

to people that I relate to, which are people who are struggling to feel

that they have to be this something.

You can be, you can be vulnerable, you can be broken.

You can be real.

You can show all these parts of yourself.

And I'd rather have a smaller group of people that related to me than a

larger following of people who related to me, because I put on a facade.

I'm just not interested

Absolutely.

Thanks for sharing about, about the evolution of your art

career and where you are now.

I talked to this woman, Jencey Keaton a few weeks ago, or published the episode a

few weeks ago, and she has an art gallery in Dallas that she's founded, but she

was talking to about people, not doing things for fun anymore, because you have

to do it for social media and you have to do it for the likes and to be perfect.

And so it was very similar conversation that kind of rejecting that idea because.

It it's for enjoyment and always it always being pressured to be good at things.

I mean, I think it's even worse for kids now, cuz parents are sharing

the kids' stuff on social media.

And so it's nice to hear about that kind of, even as a professional

artist, really you're able to then say, but I'm not good at everything,

So do you have any advice or mantra that you just wanna share with the

audience and it could be related to work or related to anything really.

I think the mantra that's most important is to never really give

up on things that you want to do even if you don't have support behind you,

because your opinion, your choice, your, your dreams, your vision...

It doesn't matter if people think you're will be successful.

It doesn't matter if they like what you're doing, just be you and

go where you wanna go, but also to not pressure yourself as well.

Like, you know, like you might wanna do something, but you might

not be ready and that's okay too.

I think giving grace, giving grace to yourself, like never giving up,

but also giving yourself grace.

I think everybody that I love and all the people I'm close to, the biggest

struggle that I see with people are how hard they are on themselves.

Just how much they feel that they need to do more than they are.

Be more than they are.

And you're fine.

Just the way you are.

You are, you're fine right now in this very moment.

You're totally perfect.

Yep.

Well, that's great.

And I think very true.

My next set of questions are called the fun five.

And so we'll get into those and they're supposed to be fun.

So let's see.

Uh, so the first one, what's the oldest what's the oldest

t-shirt you have and still wear?

I don't, I have any t-shirts.

I don't wear them because my EDS is very uncomfortable in t-shirts.

So I am a tank, top person.

I wear tank tops like crazy.

And one of the oldest tank tops I have is a switch blade symphony tank

top, which is pretty old and awesome.

and most people will not know who that is.

And that's okay.

So.

Yeah.

So tank tops for you.

Cool.

Um, so it felt like, and maybe longer for you, but during, during the isolation

time of COVID, it felt like Groundhog's Day a bit for people, especially those

who weren't used to being at home a lot.

What song would you have your alarm clock set to play every morning?

If it really was Groundhog's Day?

It would . Probably be ego likeness and the

song siren and satellites.

So I just love it pretty much the whole, all of the music, but that would probably

be the, the specific song again, probably an obscure thing that no one knows.

Awesome.

Okay.

In this one, I can almost guess now, but coffee or tea or neither?

If I had to choose and I could eat the things, which I

cannot, cause I can only drink water, I would totally be a tea person.

I love tea.

There's so many different types of tea and it's so good.

I smell tea.

Even though I can't drink it, I smell it.

That's nice though, actually, that, that is nice.

And yeah, there are a lot of teas.

So can you think of something that just makes you laugh so hard

you cry or something that just cracks you up and you think of it?

Uh, I just like to get into, like what makes people tick in this way?

That's the comedy side of me.

So something that I find ridiculously funny is when

people throw cheese on cat's heads.

And there's all these videos of people throwing pieces of cheese

and it lands on the cat's head.

And just the cat's reaction is if you've never seen it, you just have to Google it.

Like you can think, oh, that sounds funny, but you have to see it.

Like there's, there's these long compilations of, you know, cheese being

thrown on cats and listen, I'm somebody who like, is very empathetic and like,

I don't wanna hurt anybody and whatever.

You're not really hurting a cat, throwing cheese at it's head.

You do it to dogs too.

And they don't react the same way.

Like dogs will usually like eat it or jump for it, or like they're not, but

cats act like they're being paralyzed.

You'll throw it on their head.

And they're like, they like stand back and they fall over and it's like,

almost like you've with a stun gun.

Okay.

And I'm gonna, I haven't seen that, so I'm gonna check it out.

Just, I think cats are funny anyway.

Okay.

Last one who inspires you right now?

I think anybody who gets up every day and just gets

through life is inspiring, you know.

We always like look to people in the world who are like, oh, this person's successful

or this person's done this with the disability or whatever the case may be.

We look at these, these other people, but I think we need to kind of

look at like your neighbor who just got up today and lived their life.

You know, living life is challenging and difficult for everybody.

And I, so I, I'm just kind of at this moment, right in this moment

that I think what inspires me is people just living, just being here.

Getting up and living their life every day.

It's a, it's a tough world out there.

It is.

Cool.

how do you want people to find you and where do you want them to go if

they're interested in learning more about anything you're doing really?

Sure.

So you can, you can find me on all the social networks.

You can find my art at my name, aunia kahn dot com (auniakahn.com).

You can find my educational platform at create for healing

dot com (createforhealing.com).

You can find my design at light owl design dot com (lightowldesign.com) and all of

those have their social media handles.

I love to connect on social media.

So yeah, come find me come say hello.

Awesome.

Cool.

And that'll all be in the show notes.

So thank you so much for chatting today.

It was really great to talk to you and just to learn about all the aspects

and thanks for sharing so much about living with a chronic illness too, cause

I'm sure that will help some people.

So thanks.

Hey, I appreciate that.

It was, it was pretty amazing talking about cheese on cat's

heads, who doesn't like that?

Thanks for listening.

You can learn more about the guest and what was talked about in the show notes.

Joe Maffia created the music you're listening to.

You can find him on Spotify at Joe M A F F I A.

Rob Metke does all the design for which I am so grateful.

You can find him online by searching Rob M E T K E.

Please leave a review if you like the show and get in touch

via feedback or guest ideas.

The pod is on all the social channels at, at more than work pod

(@morethanworkpod) or at Rabiah comedy (@rabiahcomedy) on TikTok.

And the website is more than work pod dot com (morethanworkpod.com).

While being kind to others, don't forget to be kind to yourself.