[Music]

greetings and welcome to the talk with

History Podcast I'm your host Scott here

with my wife and historian Jen hello

on this podcast we talk about history's

continuing impact on us and our personal

journey through YouTube as we continue

to explore record and share our history

walks with you

now Jen before we start into the podcast

today I want to get to our five star

question and reviews of the week

so this week we don't have any questions

but we actually did get some five star

reviews

so

um I want to give some a shout out to a

couple of our reviewers and some of them

if

um I am messing up the names then I

apologize because the names that you

left on Apple podcast there are a bunch

of letters and numbers so uh first one

here is just someone said hey this is a

great variety of topics these podcasts

are a great way to learn on my daily

commute so much that I wasn't aware of

and the hosts are wonderfully

entertaining Ah that's very nice so

thank you to

Coco Livy I'm just gonna

so thank you to Coco Livy there uh the

next five star review said you know the

subject is I love the variety there not

pigeonhole to any one type of historical

era or subject I've learned a lot great

podcasts and episodes

and that is from sjb TMS cool thank you

to sjb TMS and one more from someone

that you may know this is a five-star

review the subject is history made

interesting I'm not typically a history

fan but I love talk with history that is

from alley girl510

I know her yes you do know her so again

thank you to thank you to those three

for leaving us some five star reviews we

truly appreciate it and it does help the

show uh for anybody else listening if

you guys want to leave us a five-star

review on Apple podcast or share the

podcast

we would greatly appreciate that also

don't forget to check out our other

podcast the history Buzz where we

interview folks while chatting about

history over a couple of drinks and we

let that conversation wander where it

may

[Music]

so you may not have thought of

graveyards as a place of History

but with just a little bit of research

you'd be surprised at what historical

figures are resting in your local area

Cemetery

this kind of curiosity and other YouTube

channels like our friends over at Whit

doc Cemetery tours and the history

Hunters

brought us to Lakeview Cemetery in

Cleveland Ohio

so Jen why don't you tell us about

Lakeview Cemetery and who we visited

there sure

so

what opened us up to this Cemetery

because the cemeteries since doing this

video we we have ventured more into

Cemetery

tours because we found them so

interesting and had so much history in

them but what brought us to this

Cemetery was President Garfield 20th

president of the United States I worked

at the James Garfield house in Mentor

Ohio the James Garfield house was James

Garfield's

summer home

um in Ohio it was like a farmhouse he

lived there while he was President he

had bought it before he was president

and after he was assassinated his family

continued to live there so I had worked

there I did an internship at the

National Park Service and

when doing that internship everyone

would ask me have you been to his grave

have you been to his Mausoleum you

mentioned that to me a couple times like

that he wanted to visit it and so it's

not close by Mentor is about halfway

between where we lived in Erie and

Cleveland and his grave is in Cleveland

this the cemetery is in Cleveland so we

would have to make like the trip to go

see it so I had talked you into it let's

go to the cemetery let's go see uh

President Garfield but in doing the

research for who else is in Lakeview

Cemetery we were like blown away yeah

and so there was there were some big I

mean there are some names that I even

knew a couple that I didn't I kind of

had to be reminded sure but but to put

this all in context when Jen says

hey we had we did more Cemetery you know

Winston started going to cemeteries more

and did more Cemetery tours I had never

once yeah

thought of going to a cemetery to like

learn history yeah right so there was

Arlington we had done Arlington just

before this yes and this was after it

and it was and really the the driver was

because you were working at the James

Garfield Presidential Library yeah James

Garfield house yes and so when we

finally went down there so tell why

don't you tell our listeners about some

of the other kind of Larger than Life

historical figures that are buried at

this Cemetery in Cleveland it's amazing

because there if you get onto their

website they have kind of like a mission

statement and it's like Lakeview

Cemetery is committed to providing

internment services to all Races and

religions

while preserving its grounds and status

as a nationally recognized landmark of

historical significance now I just read

that and that's kind of the conclusion

we come to just by being there just by

being there I was like these are people

of all Races these are people of all

religions these are people of all these

classes I say this because the richest

man in America

for for years is buried in Lakeview

Cemetery John D Rockefeller is buried in

Lakeview Cemetery and then you also get

like the first African-American mayor of

a major city is buried in Lakeview

Cemetery and then we're getting like a

Lawman Elliot Ness is buried in Lakeview

Cemetery so these huge historic figures

are coming out at us in this one place

of burial yeah and again for if you

don't recognize those names right off

the bat this is John D Rockefeller of

railroads and oil and and

Rockefeller Center in New York like he

built that yeah his son built it is his

money yeah his money his you know all

his work right the major first black

mayor of a major city yeah you know

um Elliot Ness so if you've ever seen

The Untouchables you know for me I knew

Elliot from a Tupac song yeah you know

you had no idea who he was I I had I had

no idea but I had actually seen the

movie

um it's a Sean Connery and Kevin Costner

movie so there's some there's some

there's some really not just the

president it's all these other people

yeah and so it opened in 1869

um and it's still in use today has

interesting monuments like there was

like a a crying lady Monument by the

lake and that was actually a lot more

famous than I realized yes and they have

like they have very interesting

tombstones like we'll talk about Alan

freed and his Tombstone looks like a

jukebox yeah the the Allen Friedman was

really interesting the crying lady so

it's basically looks like an she kind of

looks like an angel I don't know if

she's got the wings yeah but for some

reason it's that kind of classic kind of

rusty green yes and for some reason the

patina makes it looks like she's got

tears so it's very artistic and very

it's it's very emotional yes it was and

then when I started doing the video and

making this video video for YouTube I

was like this is actually really well

known it is and it's actually so

different cemeteries have different

missions I would say and Lakeview

cemetery's mission is really to be in

the community they want Community

involvement they have a whole I mean we

see you'll see it in our video they have

a whole daffodil Hill and they want

people to visit it they want people to

drive in their Cemetery take pictures

they want people to walk they want

people to picnic they want people to

kids to play like they encourage that

behavior where you'll get other

cemeteries who very much discourage that

behavior Arlington is one of them so you

have to be very aware of what the

cemetery's purpose and what their

mission is trying to accomplish this was

much more of and we'll go into some of

the characters but just up front this

was much more of a tourist destination

and even the people there when we were

walking around visiting like they just

started chatting with us you know and

they and they saw that we were making

videos and nobody was really bothered by

it I think it's one of the first times

we handed out our business card that's

right yeah that's right

um so so Jen who are the some of the

first kind of historical figures where

we're going to be talking a little bit

about who do we see there

well so one of the ones I really wanted

to talk about was Ray Chapman and Ray

Chapman was a baseball player he played

for the Cleveland Indians and he was the

only major league baseball player who

has died from an injury of a ball during

a game

and he was hit in the head with a

baseball this is this is 30 years before

helmets before so it's even after 30

years after he's hit and killed they

still don't introduce helmets and he is

hit by a Yankee player a pitcher named

Carl Mays and Carl Mays had the

reputation for being kind of a wild

pitcher anyway but after he kills Ray

Chapman

um

his reputation pretty much goes downhill

from there but um and that grave like I

mean I had all sorts of stuff around it

baseballs and gloves yeah and people

bought pennants like Cleveland Indian

pennants that's right and people were

that's those are the people who we gave

our card to yeah people were visiting

that grave so people come there for that

grave and

you know he was only 29 years old he was

very young and what I found interesting

about him

is

he his wife is pregnant when he dies and

she has a daughter and they she gets

remarried to a man in California and she

ends up never really recovering from her

husband's death and she ends up passing

away where her husband in California

just has her sent back to Cleveland and

buried in Calgary Cemetery and why visit

Calgary Cemetery in the Cleveland torso

killer video oh and then the daughter

actually she dies not long after at

eight years old from measles oh my gosh

and she's actually buried in Calvary

Cemetery too so I I sometimes find it

sad when families are separated I feel

like they should be buried with Ray

Chapman you know so that's kind of like

something that I you know just

I always like to look at find a grave

and the connections people still have

sure

um but no Ray Chapman is a very popular

grade because he was killed by a

baseball in a major league game I think

he was pretty close to the radio DJ

no

the rate of DJ is close to eliotness

that's right that's right yeah

so

Elliot nass we can talk about Elliot

Ness a little bit so I was so excited

we're so excited because I loved the

Untouchables so if anyone has seen that

movie with Kevin Costner and Sean

Connery to me it's probably one of Sean

Connery's best roles he wins the Academy

Award for it for best supporting yes his

only Academy Award if he wins it for The

Untouchables yeah and he has the great

line we put it in the video like how far

are you willing to go yeah like you want

to take down Al Capone what are you

prepared to do yeah because you've got

to go all the way yeah that's a classic

it's a classic kind of monster era movie

but for the cops per se from the cops

yes right now the sad thing about The

Untouchables is most of it is highly

historically inaccurate the movie the

movie no they're actually I mean there

was a group right Elliot and S like they

were actually him and like his his other

kind of straight stick cops he had a

small team and they were the they were

anti-prohibitionists so what they did

what he did basically is he did

he was he was brought in to take down Al

Capone and how they did then what they

did is they basically cut out the

middleman with his alcohol Supply and

that's what they did and they kind of

show that in the movie A little bit yeah

and as they're doing that the problem is

when they try to bring them up on

charges of um you know prohibition is

the the judge is paid off right and

that's what happens in real life right

because because Capone had paid

everybody off cops judges so what

happens is they actually are actually

they actually are able to bring them up

on tax evasion charges and uh Elliot

Eliot ness's brother works for the

treasury and Elliot Ness is actually

working for the treasury at this time as

well and

um it's actually the the three charges

stick and he gets sent to prison for 11

years and there is one moment when Ness

and Capone actually meet I think it's

when Ness takes Capone from the jail and

puts them on a plane to go to another

bigger prison yeah it's the one time

they're actually like in the same

space but the whole point of The

Untouchables and This this term was

coined by the Chicago newspaper for the

six men that Ness gets around him is

they can't be bought right Capone can't

pay them off yeah and so they're

Untouchable by and they try to show the

corruption they try to kind of explain

why they're called The Untouchables yeah

and so that kind of really makes Elliot

ness's career

he moves on to Cleveland so this is this

is what opens us up to like why is he in

Cleveland why is Elena that made no

sense he's from Chicago right this whole

Al Capone case is Chicago yeah he comes

to Cleveland after he's hired a safety

director and

the serial killer starts operating yeah

which is another video it's another

video and we'll talk about it on another

podcast and long story short he sees

unsuccessful in Catching him yeah it

becomes it tarnishes his career and he

ends up going he ends up working for

like a counterfeit company in

Pennsylvania

and uh he he dies of a heart attack very

young 54 years old and he dies

relatively obscure and then a book comes

out about two years later called The

Untouchables yeah and his whole life is

made TV show comes out a movie comes out

Elliot Ness gains notoriety he's in a

song yeah right and now you think it now

he would never recognize the the

famousness that he has because he wasn't

that famous back then he was very he was

very tarnished and discouraged after

what happens in Cleveland yeah

so um and he was a alcoholic he was he

was drinking a lot because again he felt

very he couldn't solve that last case

and he burns down that shanty town and

that really just yeah and we'll and

we'll talk about that yeah but that's in

another video

and we'll talk about that on another

podcast so again so we mentioned earlier

that uh Alan freed his grave is like

across the street so right there so

Elliot Ness

if you see his Tombstone just so we can

color a cover Elliot so fast he's

actually not buried he's that's right

his ashes are there and they're not

actually even by the tombstone they're

in the lake yeah and the police

department spread his ashes in the lake

yeah in this Cemetery in the cemetery so

the tombstone is just kind of like a to

mark that his marker for him yeah yeah

his ashes are close by yeah but not

actually there and then close to that

lake is also Allen freed and Alan freed

is the whole reason why the Rock and

Roll Hall of Fame is in Cleveland yep so

he was a disc jockey to play

African-American music and give credit

to African-American artists I don't

think I realized that and so he coins

the term rock and roll he comes up with

that term and that is the whole reason

it's in Cleveland because Cleveland's

invented he was pretty big back in the

time because even when I was making a

video yeah I could Google something on

YouTube If you Google him on YouTube you

can find his old sure TV shows so after

he does that he starts having big

concerts and I think one of the things

on his tombstones is one of the concerts

he had one of the first the first Rock

and Roll concert was in Cleveland then

he gets hired by bigger TV shows he kind

of does a lot of what de Clark does with

the American Bandstand but Alan Freed's

career is ruined with um he is part of

the Scandal where he's paid by certain

record labels to play their artists

um records right and he does it and so

it's a huge Scandal he's discredited in

the community he's totally ruined and he

ends up dying young of again alcoholism

so and his name is very tarnished where

people don't associate Alan Reed with

the same type of

um stardom as dick is De Clark right

even though it's really Alan freed who's

who sets the stage for Dick Clark so but

Alan freed unfortunately that Scandal

just yeah and just you know if if you're

if you're less interested in this

historical aspect and you let's say you

live in the Cleveland area and you're

going there the tombstone is just cool

it looks amazing it looks like a big it

looks like a big jukebox it's really

really neat it and it and it stands out

just because it's

it it's not your typical headstone it

literally looks like it's like about the

size of what a jukebox should be it's

it's gigantic and you can see it from

Elliot ness's uh and for us we weren't

really expecting to go to his grave but

because you could see it from Elliot

ness's grave and it was what is that

neat we walked over and we was like oh

and you can basically read his story on

the tombstone yeah now I had read also

that he wasn't originally buried there

and then his ashes went to the Rock and

Roll Hall of Fame for a long time and

then the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame

asked for them to remove his ashes and

his his family put him in Lakeview San

materials oh interesting yeah so I don't

know what that's all about but that's

kind of what happened there

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now there were some other ones if and

I'm trying to remember so so of course

we do we do Carl Stokes he's that first

um mayor of a major city he's the first

black mayor of Cleveland

and we go to his grave we go to Garrett

Morgan's grave he was an inventor the

three-way traffic light in gas masks yes

that's right I and I was pretty neat

he's African-American he's

African-American as well yes so so think

about that let's pause really quick on

that right traffic lights yeah like this

guy invented traffic lights red yellow

green like thing that everybody knows

nowadays everybody Associates those

colors with you know go stop and slow

down all right speed up or the road rage

or what have you whatever City that

you're living in this guy Garrett Morgan

Garrett Morgan invented that as well as

gas masks I mean talk about two

completely opposite things safety very

safe yeah that's true that's right very

safety oriented but I mean gas masks so

what about do you remember when he no

but they're very like premature gas

masks like the basic the the precursive

yeah precursors yeah what would actually

be used and all that stuff yeah but uh

that was just like it was such a random

super interesting and he was kind of a

little bit further away yes from some of

them so this is a big Cemetery it's 235

Acres yeah it's it was gigantic it's

very big Cemetery so you have to it's

again

you have to know where you're going you

have to get a map you have to kind of

plot out the the graves like even for

Garrett Morgan I remember we have his

section and lot number but we had to

walk around there for a little bit we

had to look around for a little while um

we go to Salisbury so I was gonna ask

was that where Salisbury so this is like

the Salisbury steak guy so if you walk

over if you go and watch our video and

the video link will be in the podcast

you know notes description here

um you know I kind of show like a quick

picture of like hey what's a salisbury

steak again yeah you know if you're not

if you're not a big meat eater or

whatever right but this is the guy that

came up with the Salisbury Salisbury or

this is you know it was named after him

it was named after him so he comes he's

a doctor who starts to see the benefits

of a meat-centered diet so basically

sees the benefits of high protein right

and so the Salisbury steak is named

after him was he wasn't he Scottish or

something like that I think so but it's

basically just a steak with gravy

basically back in the day when steaks

were really dry because you can imagine

just cooking them over like kind of spit

or something to wait to make them edible

was probably to put some kind of gravy

on them to eat them so thank you put

some of the extra juices on yeah but no

one of the bigger Graves we saw was of

course

John D Rockville yeah yeah his grave was

huge it's huge he has a huge Obelisk

yeah and he's buried I think it's so

funny he's buried beside his mother yeah

and his wife yeah shocker right between

us yeah oh my gosh well and you know

what I didn't know that you taught me

while we were there is people there was

all this money laying around money and

I'm like not just not just pennies yeah

it's like dollar bills

yeah people leave money on his grave and

they do that because

there's a Superstition that if you leave

money on rockefeller's grave your your

personal money will multiply the way

Rockefellers money multiplied but

Rockefeller I mean he made his money in

a way that I I'd say this on the video

you can't make your money today he

monopolized Standard Oil yeah he cut out

all middlemen he overpriced so middlemen

couldn't afford transportation and then

once he owned all the oil he could jack

up the prices yeah and so and again I

didn't really understand this until I

started making making the video when

when Jen says monopolize the oil

industry it was a true and legitimate

Monopoly if so I do I show a picture of

because the U.S government eventually

they broke up Standard Oil they won't

let you do that anymore yeah because

it's not fair to and so there there's a

tree so there's a picture right there's

a picture kind of showing like when

Standard Oil was broken up into three or

four things and then three or four

things from each of those was in all the

big name companies Exxon Mobile all

those they all were born from standard

standard oil if you look at that video

pause it on that section and just look

at what standard oil was everything that

came from it and you'll see all the big

name oil oil companies today you're like

oh my gosh he he basically owned like

the entire world Supply yes you know and

supplied oil to the entire world at the

time yes he did and it doesn't support

free market it doesn't know so not at

all that's a smidge of a monopoly yeah

but he so he tries to make good right so

Rockefeller goes oh buy this uh these 22

acres in Manhattan and I'll build all

these buildings and I'll make it so I'm

doing something good for society and you

know we'll build uh Rockefeller Center

and we'll build 30 Rock and we'll build

a bunch of different things in that show

30 Rock 30 Rockefeller Center yeah it's

him yeah it's him

so it's very interesting he lives to be

a very old too he lives to be 98 years

old so I mean talk about just a guy who

just won't quit in every single way

he was the first billionaire in the U.S

and then um of course we go to

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Garfield

yeah that was cool James Garfield 20th

president of the United States

assassinated he was shot in the train

station in Washington DC on September 18

1881 and he

um

no actually I'm sorry he shot July 2nd

1881 he dies September 18 1881 yeah and

we now remind me that was his was the

mausoleum we didn't get to go inside yes

because of covet you couldn't go inside

it's a large I mean it's it's a huge

Monument I would love to go back and get

a chance to go inside I mean at the time

it was like 100 135 000 it took nine

years to build so he dies in 1881

like most presidents he lays in state at

the rotundra and the capital then he

goes on again like a a funeral train

tour same thing they did with Lincoln

yeah and he brought back to Cleveland

and then he's put he's he's at Lakeview

in a vault and he's kept there for nine

years until they build this Mausoleum

and it's it's huge we saw it's beautiful

yeah stained glass windows gorgeous from

the outside we weren't allowed to go

inside and there's a big 12-foot marble

statue of him inside and he's buried

there beside his wife or they're not

even Barry they're in tombs yeah so

their coffins are visible with their um

with the American flag and in the video

I show some some pictures right that are

that are publicly available online yeah

so if you walk again if you watch the

video you can kind of see what it looks

like inside if you ever want to go visit

for yourself I'd go back just to visit

yeah it's really neat um

but here's a he's a an interesting

president because he's basically killed

more or less by his doctors yeah that's

right because he they keep this is

before washing your hands this is if

we're using gloves this is for

sterilizing instruments so because he's

shot in the back and it goes into his

abdomen doctors keep trying to check for

the bullet because he never got it out

they never got it out and they keep

trying to get it out and they can't

quite find it and they keep sticking

dirty instruments and dirty fingers he

dies of blood poisoning gangrene and so

his the defense of his assassin is that

I shot him but I didn't kill him that's

right that's right so that's what he

says and he was actually and I didn't

realize that he was actually a pretty

popular president elected like he was he

was very popular so he was a general in

the Civil War he's a great orator what a

amazing speaker and he was well educated

he was taught at um college and that's a

that's what some of the murals on the

side of the mausoleum have him to being

a teacher being a professor so and he

was very well liked and that's at the

time the two sides couldn't decide on a

president and they both kind of dug in

their heels and then someone said well

what about Garfield I was like yeah yeah

so that's basically how he won the

presidency they called in the Dark Horse

because no one expected him to win and

then he won yeah he was like the one

person that everybody could agree with

mom like yeah actually I think he'd be

pretty good like we really don't like

these other two but he'd be pretty good

pretty good yeah so that's how he won

yeah

um so that was that was neat and I

wanted to see that so that was very

important and

this was the first time that we had

brought the kids with us and

um my middle son really took an interest

because we had spoken about a school

tragedy yeah that's right that was a

monument that's right 169 children were

killed in a fire in 1908 at a school in

Cleveland and there was a

a monument to them so I was talking

about that and my middle son was very

interested in that well and I didn't

realize that that particular event again

that happened in Ohio yes but it was the

reason that they changed a lot of safety

codes

and part of what happened was that all

the kids were trying to rush out of this

cafeteria and the the doors swung

inwards yes and not outwards and

obviously they were panicking they

didn't realize this and so now

if you ever go into a a space like that

all doors in large auditoriums like that

they all swing out and that was that was

because of this tragedy yeah and it's

yeah it was very you know of course a

lot of safety protocols born of tragedy

you know and that was one of them and it

was there's a lot of children you know

so it was a pretty sad thing and of

course my son took interest in that and

so we had a we had to talk about that of

course but um

I think one of the other Graves we see

here is Devereaux

oh yes so that's just something that

always stuck out in my mind as those

three characters walking home from the

American Revolution there's a famous

painting and I just had always seen it

recreated yeah right so so again most

people listening to this because I had

no idea sure right and I'm not sure you

even did I mean you may have because

you're super smart but most folks won't

know Devereaux they won't yeah even

trying to describe the painting of the

three men walking kind of across a

battlefield one kind of drumming one

carrying the American flag carrying the

Americans and one kind of injured

playing the flute right and it's been

recreated it's been recreated like

Mickey Donald and Goofy recreated it I

think they recreated a lot like in just

cartoons and stuff and again we show the

pictures on the video but it was just so

neat so Deborah was one of the models

one of the models for the painting yeah

yeah the original paintings just kind of

again such a random aside for such a a

pretty famous painting yeah right again

it's been recreated and reacted and you

know across cartoons and all sorts of

stuff if you look it up online or if you

watch our video

you'll recognize you'd be like oh yeah

I've seen that before well yeah again

this was this was such a fun

one to do because it was unexpectedly

just a nice afternoon

um

this was the first time that I thought

of local cemeteries as places to visit

and the first time outside of Arlington

National Cemetery that I viewed a city

cemetery as more of an afternoon

destination on a nice day

because you never know who might be

resting right in your hometown

so again thank you to those lists for

thank you for listening to the talk with

History Podcast and please reach out to

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thank you

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foreign

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