**** Producer's Note: The following is a general transcript of LCC Connect's weekly radio program. Contents include but may not be limited to podcasts, program imaging, announcements, and PSAs. More detailed and accurate transcripts of the podcast episodes featured in this broadcast can be found at LCCconnect.com or by following the links provided in the show notes of this episode. ****

It's time for Stars on Sports, a.

Podcast radio show dedicated to sharing stories about our athletic program at lcc. Past and present.

Lansing Community College athletics has a strong tradition.

25 national championships, over 190 all Americans, 19 MCCAA all sports trophies.

Tarzan Sports will introduce you to individuals that have contributed to our program success and give you the backstory on what it takes to develop it.

We'll also dive into and break down the topics and issues facing athletic departments across the nation. And right here at lcc, this is Stars on Sports.

Hello and welcome to another episode of Stars on Sports. I'm joined today by our assistant athletic director, Steven Cutter and our producer, Dadalion Lowry. And gentlemen, today we're going to be talking about pride in performance. The word pride. I observe a lot at all the events and watching teams practice and even in my own life with my family and kids dynamic and really at that team environment in which looking up the definition of pride today, it's deep pleasure or satisfaction from one's achievements of those they are associated with. The team atmosphere, I think brings in a lot of pride. And I want to talk about both sides, as we always kind of do, of the issues is, you know, how it can be a very positive thing. But even in my experience over the last week, when I think about it, it's been a negative how pride has hurt teams or hurt individuals. What's your first instinct when you think of the word pride?

It's an interesting one, for sure. I think pride is built through habits, resilience and results, you know, and I think it's something that as we get into maybe a couple sides of, there's two sides of pride. And I think there's, you know, somewhat through your habits and your sacrifices, you have it somewhat earned. And on the other side, there's somewhat of a false narrative, you know, where it's the pride is not built through any of that stuff. It's just this blind pride. And so I think it definitely we can get into some stuff with pride. And you see it at the high school level, you see it at the travel sports, you see it at the collegiate level. It's everywhere. And there's definitely portions of it that you're questioning where that's coming from and whether it's earned or a false pride.

What about you, Dadalion?

Yeah, I'd agree with what you said there as far as there being a positive and a negative to it. I mean, first of all, I think it's good to be able to look at something you've done something you've accomplished and be proud of that. But I also am the very first person that will say pride gets in the way of happiness. And I'm talking about from a personal perspective, because very often you hold onto that pride. And what I see the most and what I've seen in my own life is when I'm prideful about something, it's hard for me to make that change, the transition that I need to make. And that gets in the way of happiness.

Very good. Thank you. And I want to start with the positive part of it, because I think it is prevalent in team sports, in sports in general, in school settings, like when I talk about LCC sports, I want our student athlete to represent LCC well. I want them to take pride in their school and celebrate together. And when I looked up the word pride, proud was the other part of that word that I never really put two and two together. Because honestly, when I think of. I usually think of the negative side of pride when I think of the word in general. But. But again, in team sports, it's a lot of things that we build on and that we utilize to generate success. And some of that is motivation, confidence, and a lot of levels, legacies. And, you know, you see it in the Olympics, you see it in World Cup Soccer. The All Blacks were another big one. When you look up that we talk about and how, you know, like when the Olympics come around, and I love the Olympics or World Cup Soccer, you know, which helped me become a bigger soccer fan, is. Is rooting for your country, rooting for your team to do well in a world setting. And, and the Olympics have a lot of examples of pride for your country. And I think those two really show. But you see it even again, back to my everyday example of working with teams of, you know, when they smile because they're proud of their accomplice, you know that again, because accomplishments of being a part of team are significant parts of our.

Of our program.

Pro athletes in the past talking about the pride they had, you know, to meet their standards. I mean, Michael Jordan and Muhammad Ali are two ones that, you know, their pride in their craft, competing against themselves. And it builds confidence. And that's what those two had. And that's what we want for our team to get confidence because that helps with success. So on a daily basis, I mean, you don't. This isn't one you address with a team, but it's probably one you observe and maybe have to manage with the.

Team quite a bit. Actually. It's brought up not necessarily in the word, but when we talk about details matter, it's definitely brought up a lot. Pride shows up in the details, and it's things like clean dugouts, body language, what kids are doing when nobody's watching. Pride is extremely prevalent in all of those types of things.

And that's a great example because habits you mentioned earlier. But one of the other things we emphasize with our student athletes at LCC is leave things better than you found it. Take pride in your facility and clean up after yourself and make it look better. And that is pride. That is feeling accomplished. I mean, it's not the fun thing to do, but feeling it some sort of accomplishment when you get that task done.

Also important, I think, is feeling pride even when you failed and just having pride in the fact that you first of all made the effort, but secondly, put forth the work to get to where you needed to be, at least to be able to compete well.

And I think that goes to standards over success on the scoreboard is, you're right, you can take pride in your effort and losing to a better team. But I think that also lends to the negative side of things because that's when your pride gets hurt, maybe is when you're concentrating on the scoreboard or focusing on the negative part of your ability, per se. So, yeah, when I talk about it need to be taught. And we maybe don't address it as much, but it does need to be taught and addressed. And again, in any facet, it's where on the pendulum that is, is whether it'll be positive or negative. And again, that sense of accomplishment, I think can go a long way in doing those things. But on the negative side, you know, it can lead to arrogance, selfishness, complacency. Complacency is another one. And then like, so I think, you know, when I'm thinking about pride in sports and I'm thinking about specific examples of the negative side of it. What about upsets, you know, like, or the biggest upsets in sports because of too much pride or getting, you know, and I don't want to, you know, make them same as complacency and pride, but we talked about spectator behavior a little bit over here. And is some of the violence in sports attributed to your pride?

There's a sense of delusionalism that comes in when you have a lot of pride and a lot of times that leads to covering up maybe the truth. You miss some stuff because you are so proud of, you know, whatever it might be, and you end up being a little Bit delusional and not able to grow or maybe even just learn from, you know, whatever's happened to you because you're just too proud to be able to see it.

Yeah, I think it leads to overestimating your abilities that. And that again, leads to those.

Which is also a great thing, the belief system. And having a powerful belief system in yourself, whether it's in sports or life, is so super important versus the other side of the coin of that.

And that's why this word intrigues me so much, because this is one of those more finer lines of too much can be a negative thing and not enough, you know, can also be a negative thing. Is finding that perfect, like area of.

And who defines what is perfect. And that's why I think it's a gray area because there isn't specific definitions, whether it's in sports or life, what is too much. And that's. That's the hard part. And so we're all going around on individual basis making these decisions on that. That's great pride. That's too much pride. And all these opinions, they. They just don't line up.

That's what I was trying to get to is that's why I think it's so important and prevalent in sports, is because you have the individual pride trying to mesh at the team pride. And I think those most successful teams get it aligned and keep it in check. But it's hard. All know, on a daily basis there are different pride levels of kids. And whether they're being positive or negative that day is how to handle. And again, I think that's the intriguing thing about pride, is your own pride and how it fits in. Because the definition says being associated with a group or team, that how does your pride fit in with your team? And leadership and student accountability all helps with that. But the other thing with sports is there's adversity every day that you see people's pride hurt or built on. And you know that just that momentum, that excitement, that dealing with it and how you deal with it can definitely, will definitely impact your consistency that lead to your success. So I think, yeah, individual versus team pride is a big thing because in the end it's pride with your team. Back to the national team examples. And, you know, when I think of violence in sport, to hit on that a little bit, is it their association with that team, whether they're cocky and, you know, picking on those want that loss, or whether they feel a sense of hurt and they're mad and want to pick a fight with something which another neat example I thought of is. And I thought of. And you might disagree with me, but we were in a baseball game at LCC a week ago, and there was a little adversity and I thought our pitcher just got better as the game went on, and you just like. Like build confidence. It just like it was a sense of pride, like he was just, you know, taking it upon himself. And I thought, man, he. He had pride in his ability, had pride, and that he wanted to beat this other team and do well for us. And I thought he started a little shaky that first or two innings, but it just. I mean, he just started to mow things down by the fourth or fifth inning and. And just had a great game. And you could just feel pride there. It can lead to that confidence. And then again. But it led to some other adversity and some of the other things because it led to the other. You know, the momentum changed in the game and, you know, there were, you know, some challenging ways of handling success or lack of success. That pride, I think, was one of the key factors that got in the way there because you went from winning to losing, and that one team went from losing to winning. That, you know, pride, again, even as we talk about every day in team practice during a game, it can change significantly. Some of the reasons we see after a game, some of those sportsmanship issues, because sportsmanship is one of the key factors in Prime. So anything else on that?

I think it's with research and stuff, it shows it's extremely important. In the team environment, I'm not sure about the individual. I think it is important there, but in the team environment, it's extremely important. And the best teams doesn't matter what sport it is, they have it and they have an edge to them. And that edge is different than, we'll say, like just a 500 team or an average team. There's an edge there. And the best teams have that pride. And. And it's not always in the jersey that they have on. A lot of times it's just in the teammates and the people around them that they have a lot of pride in their community, of the group, of the athletes.

Yeah. And I agree, but I think you see it in sports. I agree. A team atmosphere just makes that pride stronger and the celebration bigger and the bond more important. But I also, in the individual sport, I see it more in their standard or ability, like taking pride in their own sense of accomplishment, like beating that time. When you label individual and team sports, you forget that even in individual sports, you're still a part of the team. And when you look, you know, when you talk about cross country or swimming, you know, you can have your own sense of pride in your own standard or your own performance. But I think we've learned, and even human nature shows us it's better when you share it with somebody. When you're part of a team, and in cross country, you run by yourself, or even in wrestling, you're out there wrestling one on one. But it's fun when you can go back and celebrate with your team when you win or get support if you lose. So, yeah, I think the team dynamic strengthens it and enlightens it and makes it more visible. But in sport, I think there's a lot of different ways to handle it. And again, not looking just at the scoreboard, but at your own individual performance or even your performance as part of a team. Because I'm a big believer, you know, your role on the team is important, and we don't need you to, you know, maybe strike. You don't need to hit home run every time at bat. But getting a base hit or a walk, I mean, you're big on, you know, just get on base, get hit by the pitch, and to get on base that knowing your role. And I think pride can get in the way of that a little bit because of your own ego or your stats. Look, you know, when we see kids or teams focus on stats sometime, and it's amazing how prevalent that is, that that can impact their pride and then therefore impact team performance.

It can, but you still need it for performance. So it's. It's one of those things that's very, very much on the line, and you have to understand how to coach it and sometimes not coach it at all. But at the end of the day, you're still talking about things that are within your influence. And how you react to a said situation is within your influence. Losing a game is within your influence. You know, cleaning a dugout is with within that. How you work, how you. How you're working when nobody's around. All that stuff is things that you can say. This team has a lot of pride. You can see it. And you can also not see it on other teams when they don't have that pride. So the most successful ones, you absolutely want a lot of it. You just have to learn how to manage it.

Yeah, I agree. I think when you compliment a team that they have a lot of pride in what they do. They're doing it right. They're taking care of business. They're doing the little things. I mean, we can't go without saying ero in our podcast, but yeah, it's how you respond. And again, that's the word why it triggers me so much, because it can sway one way or the other. Your pride, joy pod, the renegade, because I definitely agree with you, it is needed in sports. It does help with motivating and giving a sense of belong. I mean, those are two big things. Motivating to be better and then also being a part of a team and knowing your role within that team.

But on the individual basis, it's still part of the process. And it's super important for everybody's journey in life, too. If you can take some pride in your journey so far, that helps you take some more steps or stack some more bricks, too. So it's, I believe it's crucial not only in great teams, but it's also crucial in for. For all of us.

And they're just leading so many more things. But, you know, want to. One of the other things I want to hit on is I also think pride, back to the sportsmanship part of it is it hinders people because they hold grudges or it'll make them choose battles they shouldn't choose to fight. And again, as I've told you before, my favorite things is knowing when or when not to choose your battles, what hill to die on. And I think pride is a strong factor in getting in the way and distorting judgment on those two things. That that's where one of the most negative things that pride is, is maybe holding on too long or. Or fighting when you shouldn't because your pride gets in the way and just, hey, let it go. Take the high road. And you know, again, one of the famous quotes in my little rivalry was the Michigan Michigan State quote a couple years ago by Michigan State football quote, that pride before the fall, you know, where does it fit in? And again back to that line. And then you know you'll fall from grace if your pride becomes too much. But I think it is a tough thing to manage because you need it and you want it and it is an integral part of your team to be successful. But on the other end, if it's too far, then it's one of the common denominators in sportsmanship and the issues we have to deal with in our team.

When I teach it, we talk about things with being proud or having, you know, what the word you're using with pride is? It's not being proud that you're Thinking that you're better than others, it's being proud that you're a little bit better than you were yesterday. And that's. And when I come to the journey and we talk about those things, that's where that pride and you see that, that's a great pride. And when you can not only manifest that, but help it grow, that's where like the best teams, you just look at them and there's an edge to them. There's something there and a good edge.

And it's crazy. I think we use the word pride more than I even thought of. You know, look at the. When you even describe a team that does. Well, I think pride is one of those words that comes out when to define them. And. And you're right. It still goes back to your own standards. Again, we all want to be successful on the scoreboard, but accomplishing your standards can really visibly demonstrate the pride you have or have developed for your association, team or accomplishment. And so at the very end, again, one of the things I saw online was pride can fuel greatness, but unlocked it can also undo it. And again, that's where you find that fine line. And just like one of my favorite things, like anything in life, that balance a strength to the extreme becomes a weakness. So you get that codon here again, but that's pride. It's a strength, but if you go too far with it, it becomes a weakness. Anything else to add? Any quick thing to, Dalian?

I do not.

No.

All right, you guys covered about all of it. I was thinking of a friend of mine that I was talking about happiness and on a personal level, not sports related, was one of those things where she no longer talks to her brother and sister because of something that happened. And a lot of it had to do with pride. And it was one of those things where I was like, it's making you miserable. I don't know why you continue, but she eventually, hopefully will get to that point.

I'm glad you brought that up the.

Down because it happens in families all the time.

It is a big fact too. They're a team. And seriously, that's one of the reasons in the last week I have been dealing with it too, is I feel pride in families, has divided families. It can be one of your best things. But I bring up LCC sports, I bring up my favorite team sports. How I've seen it in that over the last week or month. But even in when I observe my own family or other family, I think it's a big indicator of tension or.

And it just gets in the way of happiness. It just gets in the way of happiness. And that's what I was definitely.

I'm glad you did. Because when I talk about hurting your pride or not knowing when to stop fighting or holding grudges, I think again, I thought of some instances in my own family or friends, family that they vent to you about that their pride getting in the way of them being happy and being together in big moments. So nice job. So, okay, we'll close there and we'll go to our last question as we record this podcast. We finished one of my favorite sporting events to watch, and it's the Masters in golf. And when I was at the high school setting, it always seemed like our spring break aligned with the Masters golf tournament. So it was one that I was allowed to, like, just watch. Unfortunately, I didn't get to watch much of this one because it wasn't any one spring break. But it still creates a lot of excitement, drama. It's one of the best sporting events, if you ask me. But for us, the thing is, every year the previous winner gets to choose the dinner for the champion dinner before the start of the tournament. So I'll start, but what's your master's dinner? And mine would actually, this year, Scotty Scheffler had cheeseburger, sliders, firecracker, shrimp ravioli, Texas style chili, ribeye or fish, and then a skillet cookie. So that's a pretty good master dinner for me. Tiger, back in 1990, he had me at sliders, but go on, had me better because he had cheeseburger and chicken sandwiches, fries and milkshakes. So. And there's some really nasty, not nasty ones, ones that don't, you know, they get pretty, like, you know, diverse in their skillet. So for me, it would be a Caesar's because this also led to, well, what's our best advantage? Appetizer. But that'll be a future one when we go there. But for me, it would be a Caesar salad, Texas roadhouse, bread and cinnamon butter loaded tots, filet mignon with french fries. Because I already got the loaded thoughts. It'll be wild for steak fries. And then I kind of like the ice cream skillet. What's your master dinner?

I love it. You come, you, you come up with these questions and then you detail it all out, what it's going to do. And the napkins are gonna look like this. And so you're saying the previous winner gets to determine it, but they don't. Do they win back to back if.

They do, they get that, like, tigers won four or five times. And he. Bubba Watson was the only one that I saw that won twice. He did the exact same menu both times, but most picked something a little different. Even when most of the time you're.

Choosing a dinner for somebody else.

Well, it's your favorite meal, but it's all the previous champions there. And, like, Gotti Scheffler won it this year or one last year and two years ago. And he. He picked some different things. But you can definitely see some of the food that they do like. But some like to just be, like, a little crazy and extravagant and such.

So I think I would go definitely with some steak and, you know, some seafood, like crab legs.

Crab legs.

And some lobster bisque soup.

Okay. That's a popular one.

Probably the appetizer would be nacho cheese. Doritos.

Doritos. I almost went a nacho. That's good. Crab legs, lobster bisque. I learned a little bit about you there. So what about you, Dadalion?

Well, you didn't tell me I couldn't do pizza, so I'm gonna do pizza because.

No, I won the year before. I won the year before.

Cut.

Did.

And so now, you know, wouldn't be pizza.

Dallian. I know you better. You got a little. You got a.

You know. Definitely. Well, I mean, pizza would be one of my picks. Subs. Any type of sub, really. Variations. Some boneless wings. I'm not really into that one.

Which one? Bone in or bone.

I prefer bone.

Boneless.

Boneless.

And then if you want to get beyond that, I mean, you know, lasagna.

Okay.

I obviously have a thing for cheese. Really?

It's pretty much my question before cheese or chocolate, but we'll go to that one in the future. But no, that's good. I mean, again, I like cheeseburgers, too.

Or sub.

But I just.

If.

If I had to pick a little more, like, special, it would be this. It would be steak for me. I'm. I like seafood, but I don't get too picky there. Lasagna. Cuban sandwiches.

Cuban sandwiches. Yeah.

That can be your, like, slider thing, your meal, but that'd be pretty little.

Yeah, little Cuban sliders. I'm done with that.

There you go.

So.

Okay. There we go. So, Augusta National Park. Please pay attention if one of these two wins the Nassers in the future. Until next time, go stars. Stars On Sports is recorded live at the WLNZ studio. Engineering and production assistants are provided by D'Dalia and Lowry. And you can listen to the episode and other episodes of Stars on Sports on demand@lccconnect.org to find more information about our athletic program, visit lccstars.com thanks for listening. Be sure to join us next time. For more Stars on Sports. Go Stars.

Sharing the voices of lansing community college visit us@lccconnect.org lcc connect voices vibes vision.

If you're considering returning to school, exploring career options or needing support in life transitions, Lansing Community College has the Adult Resource center available to qualified students. The Adult Resource center staff provides one.

On one appointments, registration assistance, referrals to.

Community and campus resources, tuition and childcare grants, academic advising, and other helpful tools to help with your educational career.

To find out more information, visit lcc.edu and search Adult Resource center.

Hi, I'm Greg Ladig and I host a show called Stars on Sports with Assistant Athletic Director Steven Cutter here on LCC Connect. It's all about Lansing Community College Athletic Department. You can always find out more about Stars on Sports and listen on demand@lccconnect.org.

Vehicle accidents are stressful enough. You don't need someone showing up at the scene trying to pressure you into letting them tow away your vehicle, often falsely claiming they were disappointed dispatched by the police or an insurance company. Be wary of any unsolicited tow truck that arrives on the scene of an accident. In fact, in some places it's illegal. Motorists should not feel pressured to agree to a tow. Call your roadside assistance provider or insurance company for towing company suggestions or consult with police on the scene. Always get the price and terms in writing along with the location of the tow yard before letting a tow truck driver hook up your vehicle and take it away. If you suspect fraud, call us at 1-800-TEL-NICB that's 1-800-TEL NICB or visit our website www.nicb.org. a public service message from the National Insurance Crime Bureau.

Michigan residents age 25 or older may qualify for Michigan Reconnect, a program providing free or reduced tuition to students who have not earned a prior college degree. Reconnect students are responsible for books and fees. Visit LCC.edu Reconnect for more information.

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This is Bob Myers from the Historical Society of Michigan with a Michigan history moment. Fur trader John Askin came to Fort Michilimackinac a poor man. He left it a poor man too, but in between time he made a fortune. Askin was born in Ireland in 1739 and came to North America with the British army in 1758 during the French and Indian War, after the British took over New France, Askin entered the fur trade and came to the Great Lakes region. Traders could make a fortune in furs, but they could lose it just as easily. In 1763, during the Native American uprising known as Pontiac's Rebellion, fire destroyed Askin's property. It besieged Detroit. The disaster left the young man in debt to the tune of £7,000. That was in an era when a tradesman might make £100 in a good year. But for Askin, good luck followed bad luck. In 1764 he was made the deputy commissary for the garrison at Fort Michilimackinac. The position returned his access to the fur trade and creditors in Albany, New York provided him with trade goods. Askin was back in business. He established a depot at Grand Portage in present day Minnesota and a blacksmith shop at Fort Michilimackinac. He married a Native American woman, which helped establish valuable kinship ties and kept expanding his trade. By the early 1770s, he had paid off his creditors. Now on a solid financial footing, Askin redoubled his trading efforts. He and Great Britain's Indian agent at Sault Ste. Marie Jean Baptiste Cadeau, established a wildly profitable post at the Sault. In 1778, he opened a post on the French river on Georgian Bay. That year, when Askin added up his assets in land, goods and other valuables, it came to nearly £13,000. Askin was rich. Then. In 1780, he ran afoul of Fort Michilimackinac's new commanding officer, Patrick Sinclair. The rather inept and quarrelsome Sinclair found fault with practically everyone. He not only dismissed Askin as Fort Commissary but also forced him to pay a 4,000 pound bond and destroyed his post on the French River. Askin was broke again. But Askin's life was full of ups and downs. He rebuilt his fur trade and engaged in land speculation. And when he died in 1815 in Sandwich, Canada, John Askin was a wealthy man again. This Michigan history mark was brought to you by michiganhistorymagazine.org.

Connecting you with Lansing Community College. This is LCC Connect.

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Academic success is a priority at Lansing.

Community College and when assistance is needed, tutoring is available to all students. To find out more about tutoring services, visit LCC Edutoring. Feeling froggy? Well leap into 20 plus podcasts@lccconnect.org Art.

Happens here, the podcast that explores the often curious and occasionally amazing art installations.

On, in and around the campuses of Lansing Community College. I'm your host, Bruce Mackley.

Listen to this program and many others on demand@lcc connect.org.

He has an overbite that makes him look like a cartoon character, a slightly crooked eye, and an uncommonly wrinkly neck. In the right light, he can look.

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This is Time Signatures with Jim Irvin, a podcast and radio program presented by the Capital Area Blues Society in Lansing, Michigan. Most any can tell contemporary musical style can trace its roots back to the blues. Time Signatures explores the blues and its musical connections with captivating interviews, lively discussions and news from the world of the blues. And now, here he is, your host, Jim Irvin.

Well, thank you so much, Parker, and welcome to Time Signatures. I'm your host, Jim Irvin, and today's guest has one hell of a background in the blues music genre. Not bad considering that he's born right here in the state of Michigan in Three Rivers. But he spent more than three decades in Mississippi earning him an incredibly special and unique moniker. This former college professor has a PhD in marketing, he spent years in the pharmaceutical industry, and he is a former member of the board of the Blues Foundation. He is one of the most approachable, generous, and a genuinely warm individual. Ladies and gentlemen, it gives me great pride to welcome the man known as Uncle Mick, or as most of you know him, Ms. Mick. Mick Colossa. What an honor, man. Welcome to Time Signatures. How are you, sir?

Well, thank you so much. You know, I'm doing great. I'm back home where I belong and it makes a big difference. You know, I. I moved from the sunny, humid south back up here. People said, why? I said I missed a couple of things like Vernors and turn signals, but it just, it feels. It feels right to be back home.

Well, I'll tell you what. I know that you're in the southwest corner of the state, so I know you get quite a bit more snow than we do due to the lake effect. As a former truck driver, I don't miss that part of the state.

Well, you know, the weather in Memphis last year, the winter mimic the winter here in Southern Michigan. The difference is here we have snow plows and the power stays on.

Right.

It was, it was pretty brutal last year in Memphis.

That's what I was told during, during the ibc. It was especially bad down there, so. And very, very unlike that area of this of the country, too. But since there's so much to talk about, Mick, we have to start at the beginning. I would, I would love to talk about your earliest memories of music.

Well, you know, my earliest memories of music would be at home. You know, I had an older sister who listened to popular music at the time. So, you know, I'm running around the house and she's dancing to Lollipop, Lollipop. My mom is listening to classical music and Broadway show tunes, and dad is listening to big band music. So I've got. I've got Beethoven and Rodgers and Hammerstein over here. I've got Glenn Miller and Benny Goodman going on over here and Dion and the Belmonts in the other room. And so. And it was in this wonderful atmosphere, you know, I just learned to appreciate all of it. And it just opened my mind and my ears to other kinds of music. And so the very first birthday present I ever got that was musical was from a friend who gave me a 45 of the battle of New Orleans. Oh, wow. Johnny Horton. Yeah.

Yeah.

Now, where did your journey in the blues begin and at what age?

At the age of 14. You know, we had three channels in. I watched your Cheatin Heart, the George Hamilton biopic of Hank Williams, and I said, you know, I really like some of that music. I'm gonna see if I can find something. So I went and went to an appliance store, which is where we used to get records in small towns because stereo equipment was the size of a refrigerator. Yeah. And I was going through and I found Hank Williams Greatest Hits. And right next to it was this album, Robert Johnson, king of the Delta Blues Singers. And I had a couple extra bucks, so I got that and I went home and I listened to both of them repeatedly. Found a lot of similarities, you know, in the stories being told in the musical structure. 1, 4, 5. But I got to tell you, I gravitated towards the Robert Johnson album. And I wore out not Just that album, Traveling Riverside Blues. I wore that track smooth listening to the guitar on it. And how could one man do that? Was stunning. But then also it got me to learn about the stories, trying to understand what he had to say. So I dug into it at about the same time, crawling across the radio. Dial FM. No, no, it was AM 1966. I picked up John R. At WLAK in Nashville and I listened to Etta James and Muddy Waters and I was hooked. I mean, I. I just stayed there. I started buying any blues albums I could find in Sturgis. That was a tough thing to do. And at the age of 17, I snuck off to Ann Arbor to the first blues festival there. Saw Muddy and Howlin Wolf, all three Kings, John Lee Hooker, Sean Murphy. It was Sean's first blues festival and Bonnie Ray's first blues festival. So, you know, I got a chance to see all these folks. So as my contemporaries were learning about blues from Led Zeppelin and Cream, I was already so far into that. So that when I heard. And some people hate me for this, when I heard the Allman Brothers do Hoochie Coochie, man, what I consider a very whitewashed version of it, I didn't like it because I'd already heard and seen Muddy do it three times. And it's a little bit different. And so we did a survey on. On. On a Facebook page one time with Chef Jimmy Petrocola. What was your On Ramp to the Blues Highway? And for most people, it was Cream and the Stones and. And, you know, even up to Stevie Ray Vaughan. Few people got there from jazz, but very few people started out with blues. You know, some people were lucky enough that their parents were blues fans. But, you know, for me, I just. I. I just fell in love with it. I could see that it. It was the roots of rock and roll. It was the roots of country music. My senior year in high school, in a speech class, I did a speech on how blues was the roots for rock and roll. And this is back when all we had was vinyl, so you couldn't do all kinds of wonderful things. So I'd sit there with a. With a record player and play you can squeeze my lemons till the juice runs down my leg. And then I'd play Led Zeppelin singing the same lines just to show people this is where it came from.

Yeah.

And I just always stuck with me. Now, later on, I was in the army in Germany. And I will never forget. I was listening. I think I was listening to Robert Johnson, but it may well have been. Could have been anybody. But there were these massive loud knocks on my door just beating it down. I opened the door and I was in a three story barracks and the guys on the second floor were a transportation unit. And there were five great big black guys beating on that door saying, turn that damn slave music off. Wow. I said, oh my gosh, what's going on? It's funny, that was more of a northern. Although it was in Germany from the north. That was more of a northern thing that in the 60s, African Americans weren't listening, didn't appreciate that was slave music. That was the music they ran away from. Whereas in Mississippi and, and down south, it's, it's always been a very popular music form. You know, Howlin Wolf played for sororities, you know, so that, that was a very different thing. And I again, I had to dig into that a little more. So I had to understand Southern culture and African American Southern culture to really understand the blues. And then why did these people hate it so much? And it was because of bad memories that they ran away from. Now later on it's caught up with it and people come to appreciate it. Yeah, and that's, that's delightful. But you know, I've got to say, other than the blues festival, I can't recall much in the way of blues in Michigan. There were a couple local bands that would play some blues, but I got down south and it's a multicultural event. Any blues show. It's really, it's really fascinating.

Yeah, I wanted to talk to you again about the Ann Arbor Blues Festival because, man, that, that had to have been just an incredible experience for you for those three days. What, what was that like? I mean, you saw them all, man.

I, I wish I could go back and do it again to really appreciate it because I didn't know who some of these people were. I knew, yeah, Muddy and Wolf and BB And I saw BB Several times later as well. You know, it's a kid in candy store and, and learning about other artists I was totally unaware of and then seeing some white people playing pretty damn good blues. You know, it was just, it's just so hard to explain. It was almost, you know, I said, kid in a candy store. I was, yeah. But at the same time, I didn't know how wonderful that was.

Yeah, that's. I just, I cannot even imagine I.

Had a chance many years later to mention Bibi, that the first time I had seen him was there and he just had this big grin on his faces. He said that was a magical time because that's when it really started to break out. I mean, you know, when I hear people say, well, you know, blues. Blues used to be big, and now it's dying. Come on. There was one blues Festival in 1969. Now there's 17 every weekend. Yeah, right, right.

But, you know, I wanted to turn the page here just a little bit. I love that you refer to your music as free range blues, which is a hybrid style that incorporates everything from acoustic to electric, from Delta to Chicago, from country to rock and reggae. Your brand of the blues, Mick, just might be the most eclectic variety I've heard of to date. What led you to work in all of those different elements into your music?

Well, you know, the first blues I ever listened to was Delta blues acoustic. Not the same time as I was also doing folk music playing in little clubs and things. And so the acoustic side really fit well. And I was able to pick up a lot of Piedmont blues, which some blues purists don't even want to consider it blues because it's so different. They're wrong. But then I also played in rock bands, so I appreciated the electric stuff. And I certainly loved what Muddy and Wolf and these other folks did as they electrified blues. And I always saw the connections. And, I mean, if you go back and listen to Alan Lomax's recordings of Muddy sitting on his porch at Stovall's plantation, and then listen to what he did later, and a lot of times it's the same songs. I just love it all. But I know where the blues came from. And that was that acoustic stuff that came forward. And it's funny digging into it, trying to understand, okay, you know, the first blues instruments. The first blues was a human voice, but that was followed by fiddle and banjo, right? Because. Because those were the instruments. And it wasn't until the guitar wasn't really introduced, until migrant Mexican workers came to the Delta with their guitars. And the guitar was an instrument that fit the genre really well. It was also more approachable, cheaper, and everything else. And then to get deeper into it and understand that, you know, the music form in blues is Celtic. You know, there's no pentatonic scales in Africa, and that'll get some people upset. But what you had was indentured servants picking cotton along with the slaves. And they were sharing, you know, a similar experience, but also sharing that music. And so you can hear the commonalities between bluegrass, which has that same Celtic root, and blues, a lot of the same stories. I mean, sitting on Top of the World is a Huge bluegrass song, even though it was a Mississippi Cheeks that wrote it, and there's so much of that. But the other thing that's fascinating is Celtic rhythms are from North Africa. The Romans brought that. So, you know, there is no music that is more world music than blues. And, you know, Willie Dixon once said that blues is the roots and everything else is the fruits. But I. I think the roots go deeper than that. The roots come from a lot of places. So blues is the trunk that drew from all this and then created all the rest of it. And it's just. It's there. It's the epicenter of western music. And I was fortunate enough to realize that and to come across it early. And anytime I hear music, I filter it through a blues filter, which is why I had so much trouble caring about you two at first. Okay. Because they didn't have that. That basis in there. They came out of punk. Right, Right.

Well, after your military stint, you decided to take a swing at doing some solo work and record, but you soon learned that that wasn't going to be in the cards for you. So, among others, you worked with a very young John Hyatt.

Yeah, you know, we played a lot of the same venues, you know, the Holiday Inn bar circuit. But I was seeing John and some of these other folks and saying, my God, if they're stuck here, I'm screwed. And it's funny, because I was raised in a family, had a son at the time, and so I decided to go back to school, and I got very involved in some things in college. I started out at Glen Oaks Community College here in Sage O County, and we went to a big event, I think it was in Cleveland, where we had. We sat and listened to musicians to see who would want to book in it. There's John. I was already on it, on his way up, so. But we. We got together a few times, you know, afterwards. But he signed his deal with Geffen Records, and I. Other than being in the audience, I haven't sat and talked to John since. But I learned so many songs from that. But they're, again, somebody that's very based in the blues.

Yeah. Yeah. Now you ended up working for Up John.

Yes.

And in the process of things, you fell in with a group of fishermen via Trout Unlimited, and from that relationship came your first album, I believe. Trout Tunes and Other Fishing Madness. I got to hear this story.

You know, I was very active in Trout Unlimited, always been a fisherman. And it just turns out that the folks that I was fishing with were also musicians. And, you know, we'd go on these outings, and somebody would bring a guitar. So pretty soon there's three or four of us bringing guitars. And one guy in particular, Mike Siegel in Kalamazoo, hell of a musician. He's also a luthier, and I own a couple of the guitars that he's. That he's made. He does beautiful job. He learned from the Gibson luthiers, you know. Oh, wow. But at the time, I was. I was also on the national board of Trout Unlimited, and I was president of a local chapter in Kalamazoo. But I was also on the national Board of Directors and then the Michigan Council. And I take a guitar and I would do song parodies like mamas, don't let your babies grow up to be anglers, and. And things like that. And people said, you ought to record those. I said, well, if I record them, I don't want to do, you know, I don't want to be the alien Trout. So I started writing original songs, and I play them, and, you know, Mike liked him and. And, you know, other folks. Now, by then, I had left up John and was teaching at Nazareth College. Okay. And one of my colleagues was a jazz musician. Ken Morgan. Amazing. Had a band called Pieces of Dreams, but he toured with Louis Armstrong and Johnny Mathis and people like that. But he was also a psychology professor and a. And a counselor, and we team taught a course on jazz and blues. Walkie. He said, you know, I like trout fishing. So he started going on these things, and we went on a trip to the Upper Peninsula to fish with a dear departed friend of mine who was a fishing God and legend. John Volker. Okay. Pen name Robert Traver. He wrote Anatomy of a Murder, but he also wrote Anatomy of a Fisherman and Trout Madness and Trout Magic. And we were at his camp on Frenchman's Pond. And the opening track on that. On that album that we eventually did is called Crazy for them Trout. And we played that with John on piano, Ken on. On flute, and then two of us on. On. On guitars. They said, yeah, this song's got something. And, you know, I just started writing like mad and came up with. With the album. Wow. But the main musicians were all trout fishermen and members of Trout Unlimited.

That is incredible. And it's still getting airplay today.

Yeah, yeah. In fact, there's. There's two environmental songs on it that both get played quite a bit on Earth Day. Okay. We got a reggae song, Save the Water. Then a children's choir in Chicago learned and record and performed that for. For A long time. Wow. And then another one. It's up to you. So very cool.

Now, you. You mentioned teaching at Nazareth College in Kalamazoo and you ended up moving down south. But how on earth did you end up in Oxford, Mississippi?

Well, there's another stop along the way. While I was teaching it at Nazareth, I got recruited by Sandoz Pharmaceuticals to start an economic policy department for them. Okay. This is a Swiss company. Sandoz discovered LSD and screaming yellow Zonkers. So they made the 60s possible. It was a fascinating company. And so I went to work there, lived in New Jersey. I thought I was going to make so much money. That paycheck sounded great, but it was in New Jersey, where everything costs so much more. And I wrote a song, Fishing in New Jersey while I was there. It's an angler's delight. You can catch the fish of your dreams While you're waiting in line. You can have had a great time before you're elbow your way to the stream. But while I was there, I started to publish some things. And at Ole Miss in the school of pharmacy, they had a guy who, Mickey Smith, who was the only academic who was writing things about pharmaceutical marketing. And they actually had a degree program there. And they invited me down to do a guest lecture to talk about pricing and reimbursement and how that fit within, you know. And this was in 91 or 92. Okay. While I was there, they said, you think like us, you belong here. And they offered me a job. So I went home and I said to my wife, I've been offered a job at Ole Miss. Right in the middle of where the blues came from.

Yes.

Now, I know I promised you that I would never make you live in a state without mountains. I know I'm on the board of directors of Trout Unlimited and there are no trout in Mississippi. And it would involve an eighty thousand dollar cut and pay. And she said, if that's what you want to do, let's do it.

Wow, how cool.

Yeah, I mean, I. I couldn't have done half of what I had done had it not been for Molly. Sure. So I went down there and immediately got it. I love the academic world. It worked out really great. But I was also there my second night in Mississippi. Somebody said, there's a band playing you gotta hear. It was Howlin Mad and the Relaxations, Bill Perry. Bill was the last session guitarist Leonard Chess hired before he sold the company. And then Bill came back. Bill just passed away a year ago. We became very, very good friends. I know his Kids very well. But because of that, all of a sudden, I'm hanging out with Cash McCall and some other folks. Tmodel Ford, who in North Mississippi. These were the old hands that never really got big. But it didn't take long because I'm there. I'm Bobby Rush played on one of my albums. And Bobby and I are friends. And it's just from being in the right place at the right time. Sure. Sharing the love of the music because I wanted to be where blues came from.

Now, in an interview that I read in preparation for this chat, you said that once you got down there, you were surrounded by the blues, but you had a friendship that developed with Dick Waterman. And that's something I really would like to hear some more about.

Oh, sure. Dick. Oh, my God, what a loss. You know, he passed away about a year and a half ago, and his wife followed him very, very quick. Dick and I both moved to Oxford at the same time, okay. And somebody said, you need to know this guy. And I would sit in his living room for hours going through his pictures and stories. I'd always wanted to just spend three or four days with him with a tape recorder, to have a book with all of this. Because, I mean, here's the guy that. That went from being a. A sports writer for a local paper in the Boston area to. He had this redheaded girlfriend named Bonnie Rape, okay? And he convinced her to go pro. He just fell in love with folk music. And then by doing that, got him into blues. So, I mean, he was at. He was at the Newport Folk Festival when Bob Dylan came out with an electric guitar and pissed everybody off. He had great pictures of Dylan coming back for the sound check with an evil look on his face, putting the acoustic guitar down and picking up the Strat getting ready to go out. So, you know, that's the world that he came from. He got into the blues and he. He was able to locate Sun House and Skip James long after they just kind of disappeared. He managed both of them from doing that. He ended up managing Junior Wells, who would fire musicians. Buddy Guy said. He said there wasn't a week went by when Junior didn't fire me. But I had to hang around because I knew I was gonna have to bail him out of jail. But one time he. He fired the drummer and he made Dick play drums for him for three gigs until they got an actual drum. Dick didn't know which end of the stick to hold, but, oh, no, I just had such. You know, the memories, the stories that he Would tell about how Skip James chose had his guitar was. I don't know if it was stolen or ruined, but they were in Philadelphia and he needed a new guitar. So Dick sent out, people said, bring every acoustic guitar you can find. And he played dozens of guitars and narrowed it down to these two guitars, a Martin and a Yamaha. And he said, now tell me about this one. Because he really liked the Yamaha. And he said, well, that's made in Japan. He's weak. So if something goes wrong, gotta send it to Japan to get it fixed. What about this one? Well, that's made right up the road here in Pennsylvania. We'll go with that one. So that's how he picked a Martin. Wow.

Great stories, man. Well, Mick, I so much appreciate the time you've given me today. All I can tell you is I am a big fan of your work, your music, and most importantly, I'm a fan of your kind and generous spirit. Because you are giving back. Because at the end of the day, it's not what you do for yourself, but what you do for others. And my friend, you truly are doing your part to keep the blues alive. Now, if someone wants to learn more about your work, maybe buy some CDs or book you for a gig, where can we send them?

Well, my website is M I M S M I C K dot com. It's MI for Michigan. Mississippi for Mississippi. M I C K. You can also go to the endless blues.com website and link over to me as well as the other artists on the label. So that's the way to do it right now. Because of this shoulder, I. I don't know that I could do a show with an electric guitar because I couldn't let my arm hang like that. It. I do have a couple acoustic shows coming up, just local to try to get back to it and we'll see what happens. But after I have the surgery, I plan on coming back with a vengeance.

Sounds like fun, man.

And.

And listen, if you. If you come out with something new, a new album or something, you have an open door here, you just let us know and we will definitely open up and. And welcome you in.

And thank you. Right now I'm planning four albums. Great.

Great.

One is next time I've get noticed for Sissies.

Well, next time we do this, I got a seat right here for you next to me.

How's that sound?

Yeah, Mississippi. Mick, I want to thank you so much for your time today. Thank you. I greatly appreciate you and I wish you continued success in all you do my friend.

Thank you. Take care and we'll see you around very soon, I'm sure. Sounds good.

Well, sadly, that wraps up this edition of Time Signatures for today. Again, my thanks to Mick Colossa for his time, but also to you, for without you, none of this would be possible. Jim Irvin reminding you that keeping the blues alive is everyone's responsibility, but preserving the history of the blues one story at a time, that's my mission. Until next time. So long.

This has been Time Signatures with Jim Irvin presented by the Capitol Area Blues society in Lansing, Michigan. For more information on CABS, visit capitalareablues.org you can find this episode and past episodes@lccconnect.org the Time Signature's theme song, Michigan Roads, is used by permission and was written by Root Doctor featuring Freddie Cunningham. Until next time, keep on keeping the blues alive. This has been a presentation of LCC Connect, a weekly program that features the voices, vibes and vision of Lansing Community College. All shows featured on LCC Connect are recorded at the WLNZ studio located on LCC's downtown campus. Each program is podcast based and can be heard anytime@lccconnect.org if you or someone you know would like to be a guest on one of our shows, connect with us by emailing LCC ConnectCC.

Eduardo.