Hannah Smolinski: One of the things that helped when I was thinking
about my business was really trying to identify what does the
client really need every month?
David Shriner-Cahn: Welcome to Smashing the Plateau.
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I'm your host, David Shriner-Cahn.
Today on Smashing the Plateau, I'm speaking with the president of
Clara CFO group, Hannah Smolinski.
In today's episode, you will learn how to turn your expertise into multiple,
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Now let's welcome, Hannah Smolinski.
Welcome Hannah Smolinski.
Hannah is a CPA and the founder of Clara CFO group, a virtual CFO agency providing
small businesses with financial clarity and profit maximization strategies.
Her experience working for one of the world's largest accounting firms
inspired her to make corporate expertise accessible to small business owners
through fractional CFO services.
She also hosts a YouTube channel with over 36,000 subscribers, and
uses the platform to help small businesses achieve financial success.
Hannah, welcome to the show.
Hannah Smolinski: David.
Thank you so much for having me.
I'm excited to chat today.
David Shriner-Cahn: Me too.
Tell me a little bit about your career and what led you to become a fractional CFO.
Hannah Smolinski: Yeah.
So I, started off at Big Four accounting.
I did the whole very traditional, started out getting my accounting degree.
Didn't really ever think I was going to do accounting, but I landed in accounting.
I liked business and numbers seemed to work well for me.
So I ended up in accounting and then did the, when you need to
sit for your CPA exam, sometimes you go, and do a master's degree.
So I did that as well, also in accounting, very exciting stuff.
But it did allow me the education to sit for my CPA exam, and it also allowed me
opportunities to, get a great internship with a Big Four accounting firm.
And then I started on that path in the Big Four.
And I'm sure some of, a lot of your, people who have been in corporate kind of
understand the Big Four, either whether it's in consulting services or it's in
accounting, it's a churn and burn model.
You work there, they, hire tons of staff when you first start
and then they hope that there's going to be attrition over time.
So I ended up kind of being spit out of the system where I actually opted out
about five years in because I needed more work life balance, surprise . So
it was time to do something different.
And, I loved working in public accounting.
I loved my coworkers and everything, but I just needed more balance.
So I ended up working for a small engineering firm when I left.
And that's where I really started to get really aware of everything
that small business owners really needed with their finance.
And it was actually really different from a corporate, background.
And, it was, yes, you need, you need finance, but in small business,
there was more, I wouldn't say more nuance, but there's just, different
needs and much more focus on cash.
And I just realized that there was an opportunity there to start
consulting after I was working for a small business for a while I
realized, hey, I could probably do this for some other companies too.
So about five years into that business, I was like, maybe it's
time to start something on my own.
And that's where Clara CFO group was.
David Shriner-Cahn: And did you go fulltime right away in your
own, into your own business?
Or did you start something on the side?
Build it up a little bit and then leave your job.
Hannah Smolinski: I did the side by side, so I was definitely
working for the other company.
I was actually about 32 hours.
I wasn't quite full time with them.
And so it gave me a little bit of free time.
And then my evenings were spent developing my business and on the side.
So I probably did them side by side for a good year and started to build
up a client base for my business.
And then I ended up transitioning out of my role with the small business
and kept them on as a client actually.
So that was actually a nice kind of soft landing into, full-time
consulting is when I had a healthy client base at that point in time.
David Shriner-Cahn: So how do you have a conversation with an employer
and say I want to leave, but I also still want to work for you.
Hannah Smolinski: Really it came down to, value and the skills I was bringing were,
what I was really best at was the finance and the advisory side on the finances.
And what I had the conversation was actually, my skillset was more expensive
for doing that type of consulting work.
But they were basically under utilizing my skills and they could have hired in
a less experienced and honestly cheaper person to come in and do everything else
I was doing in the business at the time, because I was doing administrative work
and I was helping with sales and I was the person who was like, running errands,
if someone needed to have an errand run.
So we actually were able to bring in an administrative, more administrative
focused person, and then it allowed me to sit more in that higher
level, strategic advisory type role.
And, it cost them less overall kind of with the whole package after doing that.
So I sold it based on, you're going to be getting more time from
somebody else and it's going to cost you less in the long run.
David Shriner-Cahn: So it was actually a solution that was a win-win.
Hannah Smolinski: Yes.
Yeah.
And I try to do that wherever I can, because I, I believe that
there's, win-wins all over the place.
So you just kinda need to work and find the angle and usually
we can find something to work.
David Shriner-Cahn: Yeah, no, that's really good.
So then you went into your own business and tell me a little bit about how
you landed on your business model.
Hannah Smolinski: Yeah.
So I definitely tested out a number of things for a while because I wasn't
exactly sure how to sell my services.
I think when we all start, we're all trying to figure out what does the
market really need and what are we selling and where do I fit in all of it?
And I knew the market needed CFO services, but I had a hard time
selling them at first because I didn't know how to talk about it.
And then I also had a really, challenging point, of trying to make sure that I
didn't get myself roped into bookkeeping engagements, because when people hear,
Hey, you're doing accounting on the side, everybody thinks that means that you're
going to do their accounting for them.
And, really identifying that we weren't doing the accounting and
actually like sitting in a more higher level strategic advisory,
type service took a little while.
So that took a while to suss it out.
But I knew, that the role would be ongoing.
So it lent itself really well to a recurring revenue model where,
a client hires us on a retainer.
And we have a set amount of work.
We do every single month because with accounting things change every
single month, you get a new set of financials every single month.
And so that ended up working really well with that recurring revenue model.
David Shriner-Cahn: Yeah, one of the things that I hear a lot from
professionals in their own business, when they're trying to shift into
a recurring revenue model is how do I know how much time is actually
going to take me to do this?
How do I know what kinds of deliverables I'm actually going
to be able to produce each month?
How do I price it?
How do I price it in a way that it's not too low?
And also how do I price it in a way that's not too high and I'm
over promising what I can deliver.
So there's often a lot of fear around changing a business model or pricing model
from one that might be project based or time based into a recurring revenue model.
Hannah Smolinski: One of the things that helped when I was thinking
about my business was really trying to identify what does the
client really need every month?
What do they need?
And if I broke that down, I started to see trends where I knew that
every single client would need, for example, a budget every single year.
So we're always going to do an annual budget.
And then we know, Hey, a forecast needs to be updated pretty much
every month because assumptions change decisions are being made.
New clients are being brought on and you know, revenue
forecast can definitely change.
So when I noticed at that point, I understand what does the client need
every single month then I could back into, what does a package look like
that I can really sell that I know I can deliver over and over again.
So it ended up for us that when with a client that's typically under a
million dollars, we can start to see, we know what we need to do
at the beginning of the project.
And then we know that on a monthly basis, once we get that first bit
established on a monthly basis, we have a really good sense of what that's
going to, be on an ongoing basis.
So I was just talking with my staff earlier today and I was like, for
this type of client, we know that we can spend four to six hours every
single month on this type of client.
And that always, almost always is, going to work out just fine.
Now at the beginning of the project, that's where we have the most uncertainty.
So for us, we actually do a recurring revenue model, but
we also have a setup fee.
So we charge that at the very beginning, which helps offset any
up, really, wild swings and hours.
And then we also very specifically say these things are out of scope.
So if we get into your books and they're way messier than we ever
expected, then we're going to like, put that back to a bookkeeper, or we're
going to bring some money on that.
That's not our responsibility to absorb, but it's their responsibility to absorb.
And so I think once we started to identify, we know you need these
things because people are coming to us because they don't know what's
going on in their financials and they're looking for an expert.
And so as the expert, we can say, we know you need these things, and
we're going to deliver on these things for you every single month.
So it lends itself really well in the recurring revenue model.
Yeah.
David Shriner-Cahn: So I think what you've raised a really important point,
which is you've gotta know your scope for what's included and what's ex
excluded from a particular offering.
And I think that's also hard for people in the beginning to figure that out.
Hannah Smolinski: Oh, and I've made tons of mistakes.
Let's not, , let's not pretend like I didn't get burned a number of times from,
a way under bidding, a project or way underestimate the amount of time it took.
So I do think there, it does take a number of tries to really get it right.
And, I think the more you do something, the better you get at knowing the time
that it's going to take, and you can put your best estimates out there.
I would always say if you're going to set some estimates, add 50%, and
then maybe charge your hours from there, because there's always
going to be learning along the way.
Yeah,
David Shriner-Cahn: so what did you do when it turns out that you weigh
under bid in terms of how much value you provided or how long it took you?
What you do in those situations in the beginning?
Hannah Smolinski: Yeah.
I definitely underbid a couple of my very first clients.
And this was when I was still doing some accounting for clients as well.
I just would come back to them with conversations and say, Hey, like I had
bid this project based on assuming your monthly close was going to take 10 hours.
It actually took 20 hours.
And I don't anticipate that changing because of efficiencies.
Like I'm as efficient as I can get.
And where we need to change the scope of what this is.
And I think part of that is also understanding, you always have to
be a little bit, if you're going to increase your prices, you have to
hold your client with an open hand.
Because you have to be willing for them to walk away when you increase
your prices, but you also need to know like that you need to be true
to yourself and what your value is.
If you're going to have a price increase discussion, you also need to be aware
that maybe they won't like it and maybe they'll think, Hey, we can go
and find services cheaper elsewhere.
At the end of the day, that's not a bad thing.
because then you could go out and find a client and price it
correctly the next time around.
So I think you have to just be, you have to be willing to, with the consequences
of what happens on a price increase.
David Shriner-Cahn: Yeah, no, that's very wise.
So at this point, what are the different kinds of offerings
that you have in your business?
Hannah Smolinski: Yeah, so our main core offering is the virtual CFO services.
And so those are recurring revenue projects where we come
on and, average time with those clients is at least three years.
So we're looking at where we come onto the team and we're serving
them one on one, every single month.
But I have a couple other revenue streams, which is slightly different from probably
other people providing CFO services.
So I have a YouTube channel, which was mentioned, I think in the
intro where we are putting a lot of free education up on YouTube.
And with that, I have income coming in from YouTube AdSense.
So that makes me a little bit, so probably the range between what
is recurring revenue, from one on one services is about 80 to 85% of
the total income in the business.
And the other portion is made up of these other things.
So I've got AdSense coming in, I also will sell things like workshops
or even worksheets in Excel.
So I'll make a worksheet.
let's say it's like how to calculate your estimated taxes for your small business,
and that worksheet will sell, like I'll probably sell two or three of them today.
Just because I have a video that's actually sitting out on
YouTube and people watch it.
And especially when estimated tax time comes around, that
video gets pulled up and a lot of people will buy that spreadsheet.
So I have that and digital workshops that I have done where I've, recorded
a training and then I can sell the recording over and over again.
And then I've got affiliate commissions.
So I like right now I have a QuickBook series and I'm an affiliate of QuickBooks.
So with my YouTube channel, that's driving some affiliate revenue as well.
David Shriner-Cahn: Long term for your business, what would you like it to?
Like, how would you like it to develop?
Because if at this point it's 85% from one on one services, where are
you thinking you want to take things?
Hannah Smolinski: Yeah, I would like to get to closer to a 50, 50.
And that seems like aggressive, but because I do want to grow and scale
the agency side of the business as well, but really with YouTube, it's a
really interesting platform, there's a lot of opportunities for monetization.
And even if you're not monetized with AdSense, you can still be monetized
by selling a course or you can, do the affiliate revenue thing, which
affiliate revenue really kicks in when you get like good volume
coming in on videos and whatnot.
But I would like to see that grow.
And I do think that will happen a lot through potential courses.
So we've got some, we've got some plans to grow on that side where we're
able to come in and provide really, targeted courses to certain industries
that will help them with their overall financial understanding and planning.
David Shriner-Cahn: Yeah.
Was there a particular trigger that encouraged you to get
started selling digital offerings?
Hannah Smolinski: I think what happened, I think the first offering I sold was
actually, because of P P P so the paycheck Protection program was why
my YouTube channel really took off.
I was helping people understand that program.
And then with that, I was selling, no I wasn't selling, I was giving away
for free a spreadsheet that was helping people calculate their PPP loan amounts
and their potential forgiveness amounts.
And that grew my email list basically from, a couple hundred
people to over 10,000 people.
David Shriner-Cahn: Wow.
Hannah Smolinski: Basically like that one spreadsheet.
And so what that made me think was like, wow.
If people get spreadsheets for free, maybe some people might
want to buy some spreadsheets too.
so let's test that out.
Yeah.
Let's test that.
That, that's the thing with some of the stuff it's like, why not?
throw it up there.
If nobody buys it, don't spend too much time on it where it's
going to be a huge loss, test it.
If one person buys it, maybe two people will buy it, but, my products
have always been, and the products that have always done well, have
been based on what people are asking for and where people have questions.
So any product I build it's because somebody has expressed a need
for it at some point in time.
And so that's, ideally you have a customer and then you build a product,
not the other way around, you build a product and then you get a customer
that tends to not work so well.
And I've done that too.
And then net doesn't sell and then I wonder why.
yeah.
David Shriner-Cahn: Congratulations on everything you've built and the way
you've started to diversify your business.
If you are advising someone who has a, not an accounting or finance
related business, but a, totally different professional services, niche.
What would you advise?
when it comes to building multiple revenue streams and building
recurring revenue and passive income?
Hannah Smolinski: I would say that there's a lot of opportunities
for really easy entry into this space of selling anything digital.
and then probably you're already doing something from a marketing perspective
that you might be able to transfer into something you can actually sell.
So a lot of us as consultants, we're giving workshops, or
we're doing things for free.
We're doing speaking engagements, we are teaching on a topic because
if you're consulting on something, it means that you have a knowledge
base that maybe other people don't.
So how can you take that knowledge base and think about what type of
product could I bring to market.
And ideally that product is at a pretty base level because you don't want to take
your clients who might be paying you a hundred thousand dollars for a consulting
gig, and then take that knowledge base and give that away for a hundred dollars.
We're not going to do that, but maybe you can sell something, that's the first 10
tips to get into whatever, a like teaser into the first things you would need to
know before you need your services, or maybe just really high level information,
or if you have a workshop recorded or you want to do a workshop, go and, put that
into a place that you can be monetized.
A lot of people will spend 50 to a hundred, to $200 on some education.
And if they know you trust you, they'll be buying your products.
So I think there's a lot of really quick entry ways into making money
that we have incredible opportunity right now with all, everything that,
all the tools that we have access to.
David Shriner-Cahn: We sure do.
congratulations on, on what you've built Hannah, at this point, now that you've
been in your own business for a while.
What has that done to your work life integration?
Hannah Smolinski: I'm still working probably more than I would like
to be, but I'm starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel.
I think one of the biggest game changers for me is bringing on another me.
Another me and client service.
So I've been able to hire somebody who I trust, to work with clients one on one
and then, and frankly, she does a better job in a lot of ways, because she's
not pulled in 27 different directions, like I am as the, business owner.
But when, as I'm bringing on client serving professionals, Being able to
alleviate some of the client pressures a little bit is definitely changing my work
life balance in a good way or integration.
I like that better.
and I'm, I have a child, so I want to spend time with her.
And I always end my Workday during school times.
I always try to end my Workday at three o'clock because that's
when she gets off the bus.
And I wouldn't be able to do that if I was still working in public accounting.
So
David Shriner-Cahn: That's for sure.
Hannah Smolinski: Yeah, definitely not, it's always a joke when they were
on, flexible work arrangements, quote, unquote, it just meant that you were still
working the same amount of time, but just getting paid less, which was the joke was
like, nobody's going to go and do that.
No, at least when I left, that's what it was like.
So I think.
Now I have, I will use my time in the evenings, in the weekends sometimes
just so I can make sure that I get those hours when she's home from school.
David Shriner-Cahn: Sounds great.
Hannah, I want to thank you so much for taking the time to join us today.
Where can people go to get all these great resources that we
talked about during the show?
Hannah Smolinski: Yeah, so you can check out the YouTube channel.
So that's at Clara CFO group, C L A R A CFO.
And that's where a lot of those videos who are really trying to help people
with how to build a successful small business from a financial perspective.
And you can also go to the website it's claracfo.com, and then if anybody
wants to reach out to me directly, my email is Hannah@claracfo.com.
David Shriner-Cahn: Sounds great.
We will include all of these things in the show notes.
My guest today has been the president of Clara CFO Group, Hannah Smolinski.
Thank you, Hannah, for joining us.
Hannah Smolinski: Thank you so much.
David Shriner-Cahn: When you visit the Smashing the Plateau website at
smashingtheplateau.com, you'll find a summary of each episode, along with
the links we mentioned on the show.
In today's episode with Hannah Smolinski, we learned how to
turn your expertise into multiple active and passive revenue streams.
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