Hello everybody and welcome to VP Live podcast

brought to you by Vitality Pro.

My name's Rob and I'll be your host on today's episode.

Today we're sitting down with Andy from Celler8.

Andy is an entrepreneur and PEMF expert who I was lucky enough to

first meet at this year's Health Optimization Summit in London.

What initially struck me about Andy was his no BS approach to the topic.

He knew exactly what he was talking about and what made a good PEMF device.

Had to get him on the show.

During today's episode, we discuss a bunch, including how Andy got into PEMF,

what PEMF exactly is, and what it isn't.

Difference between PEMF and Wi Fi.

The best use cases for PEMF.

And what stacks best with the tech.

And yeah, a whole lot more.

As usual, we get through a lot in today's episode, so be sure to

check out the show notes and the transcript should you need them.

And I'd like to ask you a favor.

Our little podcast is slowly gaining traction, and we'd love

it if you could leave us a review wherever you listen to podcasts.

This will help us grow, reach more people, and allow us to host future guests.

And with that, on with the show.

Cool.

Hey Andy, thanks for joining us this morning.

I suppose it's a brilliant place to just introduce yourself, tell us a bit

about who you are, how you got into PEMF, And then, yeah, we can maybe just

quickly sort of touch on Celler8 as well.

Okay.

So, um, Andy Smith and, um, I'm CEO of the NewMed limited company, which is a

kind of one stop shop for PEMF devices in the UK and, uh, on the journey I've

created my own device called Celler8 and we'll kind of talk about that as we go.

And, uh, do you, do you want my full story on how it all started?

Yeah, let's just get into it a bit.

It's always nice to hear people's stories and.

How their journey started.

Um, and where, where did you get into this?

Uh, a lot of people, uh, start off by having a miraculous, uh, event

with say a sauna or cold plunge.

And then they obviously go down that route, but yeah.

Uh, how did you fall into the world of PEMF?

Yeah.

So, I mean, it all kind of started when I left university.

Uh, I went to, uh, my father's company at the time, which is called Bedfont

and it's a medical business and they do medical breath analyzers and

have done for the last 40 years now.

I was working for their company and, uh, as, as sales manager at the time, and we

go to, uh, medical exhibitions every year.

And we met a company over there who were selling devices that offered

PEMF, P E M F, which is Pulsed Electromagnetic Field Therapy.

We, it was really interesting for us.

They, they were only a couple of kind of stores down from us and they

got chatting to us about, uh, being able to bring the product to the UK.

And at the time, uh, my dad bought a couple of devices from them and

he was using it on his horses, uh, with quite, quite good effect.

And.

The, the turning point for me really was that I was traveling.

I just actually proposed to my wife, uh, who's still my wife now.

Um, we was, we was traveling in Australia and, um, after the proposal,

we, we went and saw her family.

She's got family out there.

And I started getting a pain in my stomach, which was just a strange pain

that I'd never kind of felt before.

It happened the day before we left to fly back to the UK.

And.

Just, just as we was going to the airport, this pain started getting quite

intense, quite strong, and it was like a pain that if you press the stomach,

it was just kind of a bit agonizing.

Um, we, we got on the flight to Dubai, so it was halfway back to the UK, and

at the Dubai airport, we went to see one of the medical people there, because

at the time it had got like so painful.

It was, it was, it was unbelievable.

It's something, you know, I was 25 years at the time.

I'd never really been ill or had like a health scare at that, at that point.

So it was quite a scary point for me.

Um, we saw someone just before our last transfer back to the UK

and they sort of said, you know, we don't, don't know what it is.

There's not enough time to diagnose this.

So here's the morphine, uh, get yourself back to the UK and, and,

and get yourself checked out.

So had some morphine flight home to the UK was pretty good.

Um, by the time I got back to the UK, you know, eight hours

later, the morphine had kicked in.

Uh, I finished off and, uh, I was in pretty, pretty bad

state at that that point.

So we went straight from the airport, straight to the

hospital, got into the NHS.

They couldn't really work out what was going on.

Uh, they thought maybe it was a hernia that, you know, it

was, it was come from there.

Uh, it took the, you know, it was a, I think it was a

Saturday night when we landed.

So they said, you know, there's not a lot we can do.

We want to get you to see a specialist on Monday.

So here's some super strong painkillers.

Take yourself home.

So I had two more days at home and it was just incredible.

The pain was just, you know, nothing I'd ever felt before.

Finally got back to the, the doc, uh, got back to hospital Monday morning.

And by then I was kind of in pools of sweat.

They were looking at me thinking this isn't, this isn't good.

I went to go down for a scan and on my way down to a scan, I, I passed out.

So the, the pain was, too much they still thought it was a hernia, they

thought, but you know, this guy's in so much pain, we need to, we need to open

him up and find out what's going on.

So I actually did have an operation that day.

And, uh, when I came back from surgery, uh, I was waking up and the

anesthetist was saying to me, it was a, it was a pretty bad infection.

So it was an abscess that had just come out of nowhere in my stomach.

And it was at the point of bursting.

So it was at the point of probably sepsis.

Um, so it was a pretty bad, pretty bad infection that, that we still to this

day, don't know, you know, what, what caused it, but the real thing for me

in the introduction to PEMF therapy after that was the recovery, um, you

know, I had this big health scare and, you know, it was, it was pretty

bad for me for a number of reasons.

But the recovery afterwards, the, the, the wound kept getting infected.

So every week I'd go back, they'd give me some antibiotics, try this antibiotic.

It would kind of clear up half I'd go back again and it was infected again.

It just went on for weeks, then months.

Um, my mental health was like spiralling out of control.

I was getting, I was losing a lot of weight.

I was, you know, it was just not, that was just a shadow of the person I used to be.

Then my dad kind of turned around to me and said, you know, why don't we try PEMF

therapy that the guys that approached us, uh, uh, the German exhibition.

They told us that, you know, this thing's amazing.

It was helps with your, all sorts of different recoveries.

So we reached out to them.

Uh, we managed to get a device imported from Germany.

It was kind of a bit of hassle getting it into the UK UK.

Customs didn't know what it was.

There was import fees, all these sorts of things.

So.

We managed to get it in.

At the time I was still taking all these different cocktails of

drugs, antibiotics, and finally started using this PEMF therapy.

So it's for people that have never heard of it before.

It's a full body mat that you, you lay on and it creates a magnetic field.

And we'll go into kind of what happens to the body later on.

Within a week of using this system, the infection was gone.

It was completely cleared up and, uh, went back to the doctor and said to

him, you know, hopefully I don't need any more antibiotics now because this,

this infection seems to have cleared up.

Um, at the time I was on a medication that they'd given me multiple times

before, and then, you know, it kind of, we knew it wasn't working, but it was

just hoping and praying it would kick in.

For me, definitely, I knew it was the PEMF therapy that had helped.

I continued to use it week and week after that.

I'd come off all the pain medication, everything started to heal.

Went back to see the doctor for a follow up, and he looked at the scar and sort

of said, this, you know, doesn't look like the same, the same scar anymore.

It looks like this is, this is a very, old And, and, uh, healed scar.

So, you know, he said to me, what have you done differently?

And I explained to him about this PEMF therapy and it was the reaction again

from the doctor at the time, he kind of laughed it off like, Oh yeah, come on.

Magnetism or this sort of thing.

Who, how, who, you know, it's, it's, it's, you know, it was definitely the,

uh, the last set of prescription drugs we gave you that's knocked this on the head.

You know, and it, and it, and it infuriated me that, uh, I was kind

of saying this had helped and it could help others and they, they,

you know, they weren't listening.

So coming back to what I was doing, I was working in the medical industry and

I took a risk at the time and I said to my dad, you know, what I'm going to do

is I'm going to set up my own business selling PEMF devices because I want others

in the UK to be able to get this therapy easier than I had because I had to import

it from Germany and more accessible.

So, you know, we'll hold stock here.

We'll, we'll be able to get them out to people.

And other people can, can benefit the same way I did.

So that's kind of like my introduction origin story to PEMF therapy.

That was over 10 years ago now.

So, um, NewMed the company, the UK company, my business

that is selling PEMF devices.

Um, it's been around just over 10 years now.

And as I say, on the journey, we found that there was many, many PEMF devices in

the U S in Germany, where it's a lot more recognized and a lot more readily used.

But the products.

Were most of them were very, very dated.

They were kind of designed 40 years ago, 30 years ago, and

they've kind of stuck in that era.

Um, so they're big bulky units.

They're heavy to carry around, hard for people to move, plug in devices and.

Very difficult to use as well.

So that's where the origin of, of my product came along, which is called

Celler8, and we use the benefit of my, my dad, and now it's my older brother's

business, which was the medical business and they're a medical manufacturer.

And I said to them, you know, I'll put down on a bit of paper.

This is what a PEMF device needs to have.

This is the intensities.

This is the frequencies.

This is everything that.

It should have, should be easy to use battery operated, um, you know,

and, and accessible to everybody.

And that product request form that I put in was over six years ago now.

Um, and it took a very long time to get the product to market and develop it.

Uh, which I wasn't expecting, you know, I've never kind of

developed my own device before.

I thought, you know, fill out a form and two months later we'll be selling it.

Um, so there was lots, lots to learn along the way.

Uh, lots of testing that I'd never knew we had to do.

Um, and now last year we launched Celler8 and, and it's, it's going really well.

And so many people are giving feedback that it's, that it's helping them.

So, you know, it's kind of my dream come true that it's, this

is, this is what I set out to do.

That's amazing.

That's, that's exactly quite the story.

I didn't expect that.

How many iterations did you go through with Celler8 out of interest, and what

was that sort of design process like?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I mean, something unique about our device and, and it came quite early in the

development was that the control itself.

So normally with a PEMF device, you have a controller, then you plug applicators in.

Uh, so you plug in a full body mat or you plug in a smaller applicator and you, and

you wrap that around your arm or whatever you're trying to treat or achieve.

One of our technicians originally came up with the idea, why don't we

have the controller as the applicator?

So, you know, you've got your controller where you can choose your programs.

But on top of that, it also has a copper coil in it.

So you can just chuck the controller in an area of the body

and it will treat that area too.

That was easier said than done.

Um, you know, it was a great idea at the time, but it took a number

of different prototypes to, to get that to what we wanted it to be.

The testing itself as well was just incredible.

You know, I just didn't understand the level of testing that goes in.

You know, they get this little metal ball, I think.

They show these videos online cause they're quite interesting

to watch, but you know, they heat it up to a crazy level.

And then they drop this ball onto prototypes and plastics and mats and

all that sort of thing to see what happens, you know, because it's all

about how it will react in maybe a house fire or this sort of thing.

So.

You know, we had to create prototypes, give them to a test house and the

test house gave them back in pieces.

You know, it's like, yeah, thanks for that.

Um, so yeah, there's, there's a lot that goes into it.

There's a lot of different versions, you know, our, our firmware version.

Now it's like Apple, uh, you know, their, their firmware version

is like 15 points, something.

Now it's same with us.

We're, we're up to like 12.

8.

You know, it's like, it's just.

bug Comes you fix it.

It's an, you know, so yeah, it's a long process.

Um, but we're, we're there now and it's, it's working perfectly.

I can definitely relate to what you said about plugging, uh, plugging

in various adapters and stuff.

Uh, I grew up with an old Bemer 3000 and i'm not entirely sure sort of, uh, What

it went up to in terms of a Gauss reading.

It wasn't as effective as maybe as I would have liked Feeling it

wasn't a very powerful device.

We'll get onto that in a minute as well.

But yeah, I remember that You used to have to sort of either plug in your

applicator or your mat and then they would sort of fight with each other and then

one wouldn't work and one would work.

Yeah, no, I can attest to those older devices mentioned earlier

being somewhat clunky and a bit more difficult to use and.

Yeah, you're sort of stuck to it for half an hour.

There was no moving around.

Yeah, inevitably the dog jumped on you, but yeah, let's take a step back

quickly and just sort of touch on sort of what PEMF actually and sort of,

yeah, just the general idea behind it in terms of how it's potentially

affecting physiology because it has a very broad range of applications.

If it's almost unbelievable, but it's sort of almost a one hit wonder.

You can sort of.

Deal with everything from sort of bone fractures and, uh, wound healing to sort

of it being able to help obviously not cure, uh, certain, uh, forms of cancer

and other chronic in that respect.

So, yeah, would you mind just sort of work walking us through the process by

which it basically fundamentally works.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And I mean, I'll start cause it kind of helps explain the whole process to

start with the kind of origins of, of PEMF, um, and, and like electromagnetism.

So it dates way back.

There's, it's a bit of a debate on this subject because a lot of

people think that NASA designed and, and, and made PEMFs, but.

They were the ones to start the real testing and develop some proper devices

to use in, in a more therapeutic way.

But PEMF kind of dates all the way back to the 19th century with people like Michael

Faraday and James Clerk, who were looking at electromagnetism and how it works.

Um, then you've got Nikola Tesla who introduced electromagnetic fields.

And understanding the kind of biological effects and how that

affects the tissues in the body.

So he was more applying it to the body and what, and, and how that helps.

Then later down the line was the NASA research and that's a lot of

people, uh, kind of referenced that.

And it's interesting to know why NASA was involved in PEMFs.

A lot of the time there was sending people up to space where there's a

zero gravity and the The astronauts would come down, um, sick sometimes.

And a lot of that came down to the bone density.

So you didn't have the gravity pulling around on the body.

Um, you also didn't have the electromagnetic field that

comes naturally from the earth.

So that's quite an interesting point because.

We live in a world of electromagnetic fields, you know, um, and because

of industrialization, we're taken away from those electromagnetic

fields quite a lot these days.

So, you know, we're, we're constantly in buildings, we have rubber shoes, uh, metal

cars, everything like that is kind of taking us away from those natural magnetic

frequencies that are within the earth.

You may have heard of grounding.

And that's a process where people kind of go outside and

put their feet on the grass.

And the first time I heard of that, um, and actually one of my colleagues,

you know, we'd go on long drives and he'd jump out of the car and

he'd stick his feet in the grass.

And I think he was a bit, yeah.

Yeah.

Um, but it's amazing what actually happens during that process.

You're connecting yourself back to the earth's natural magnetic field.

Um, yeah.

I think that electron flow and you're sort of exchanging protons

and electrons and helping the body to naturally sort of become a, well,

the earth becomes an electron donor.

Yeah, you basically become your own antioxidant.

Yes, exactly that.

So when we're going, uh, when we take an astronauts back up into

space, they're taking you away from that natural magnetic field.

They were seeing that there was bone density problems coming back down.

And then it came back to let's introduce pulse electromagnetic

fields into those astronauts.

And they did a lot of research to look at, uh, how it affects bone.

Generalization and density.

Yeah.

And that's, and, and the results were amazing.

So, and, and that's kind of where PEMF really kind of

took this therapeutic benefit.

It wasn't until about 1970s where they started to do a lot more clinical studies.

They were looking at non union fractures was a really big one because a non

union fracture, as you know, is like a fracture that just will not heal.

So then once they introduced the electromagnetic field to that non union

fracture, They were seeing suddenly these, these fractures were healing.

So initial studies started looking at osteoarthritis and then chronic pain.

And then they started to make PEMF devices a bit more, um, of a, of a

commercial product that you could, you could buy and use at home.

So breaking down, um, coming back to your question, like what is

PEMF and what is, what is the pulse electromagnetic field that the technology

behind it is, is Simply just these copper coils that are in PEMF device.

Uh, you put a small charge of electricity into a copper coil, and then that creates

a magnetic field, the intensity and what you mentioned with Bemer um, so you get

low intensity and high intensity devices.

Typically that's how a PEMF devices is differentiated.

Lower intensity devices sometimes have a smaller magnetic field.

Higher intensity devices tend to have a much bigger magnetic field, but

there's, there's differences between the two devices in terms of, you tend

to find lower intensity devices at home.

So they're more safer to use at home and higher intensity devices tend to be

found in like clinics and professional settings, because you are only seeing

that person once a week or once every two weeks, you kind of want to.

Hit them with, with more during that time and higher intensity devices tend to have

a bit of a pain nulling effect as well.

So it's helping to blame, uh, block pain signals.

People tend to get confused between PEMF and TENS.

And it's a common kind of question we get, kind of, you know, is, is it TENS?

And we're like, no, it's not TENS.

TENS is like blocking pain signals.

So we're using electric pulses to, the main outcome is to block a pain signal.

So it's a little bit like taking a painkiller.

We just want to like turn off the pain.

And some of the devices, TENS are very effective for doing that.

But they're not necessarily looking at healing the problem.

They tend to override the central nervous system and actually sort of

basically, from my understanding, anyway, automatically, well, not automatically,

but basically activate the nerve, uh, instead of the central nervous system.

Why you often get that sort of involuntary contraction at a muscle level when

you're using, utilizing a TENS machine.

But yeah, as you just mentioned, they're a completely different piece

of technology and they oftentimes, they utilize for purposes as well.

I mean, so you're familiar with those sort of.

Tensile base machines, like compact complex and such.

main aim is to help with, well, not only pain, but also muscular contraction and.

Help to rehabilitate certain injuries and there's not necessarily that

neuromuscular firing that's occurring.

It is, and there's damage to either a nerve bundle or a.

muscle itself, but yeah, sorry.

So yeah, I mean, so when we talk about pain, um, tends to talk about

like blocking, blocking the pain, um, with, with PEMF and people like, well,

well, you know, we not trying to help with pain here and, and yes we are,

but what we're trying to do is fix the problem that's causing the pain.

So it may not be like an immediate effect of using a PEMF device and

we walk away with no pain, but what we're trying to achieve is to create

an environment in the body to heal.

So that we can heal that area, therefore the result will be lack of,

you know, the symptom will be the pain that will be, that will be reduced.

So how does that work kind of scientifically within the body?

Um, we, we always mentioned that PEMF is treating the body in a cellular level.

And when I first heard that I was kind of thinking, you know, how are you treating

the cells, what's, what's happening here.

And, and it makes so much more sense now that I understand how it's working

and what it's doing with the cells.

We're made up of millions, trillions of cells, and we are

kind of like electrical beings.

The first thing that people can look at with PEMF therapy

is how the cells separate.

In the body, uh, the blood cells separate when once using a PEMF device.

So we, we work with a German doctor and that's right.

We work with a doctor in Germany, uh, called Dr.

Henning Sauber, and he introduced me to.

The dark field microscope, which is incredible bear kit for us.

So what that's doing is it's allowing you to see live cells under the dark

field microscope, under a condenser.

And what we're able to see with PEMF therapy is if you take a blood

sample from somebody, especially somebody who has a chronic illness

or chronic sickness, their blood.

Tends to be very sticky and it's called the Rouleaux Effect where the blood

stacks like as if you had stacked up loads of coins and they travel around

the body like this and it's, it's not the most effective way for the

blood to travel around the body or to carry oxygen because it has a very low

surface area when it's stacked together.

When we apply a PEMF device, uh, or a good PEMF device, one that is doing what it

needs to be doing at the right frequencies and intensities, Within about 10 minutes,

what you see is the electrical charge on those cells will become more balanced.

And it's a little bit like, uh, back at school when you have those two magnets.

And if you push them together in the correct formation, they stick together.

You turn one around, they start repelling.

So you've changed the magnetic charge.

Those cells then separate.

And you can see straight away in the dark field microscope that the, the cells are

now all traveling around independently.

The biggest effect of that is, is oxygenation to the body.

So those cells are then able to carry far more oxygen because they

have a much bigger surface area.

Hypoxia is something that you tend to find in chronically ill patients

and that again is like a lack of oxygen being carried around the body.

And that, and that's known as hypoxia.

Something to completely reverse those effect immediately,

very quickly is by using PEMF.

So we can separate those cells, increase the blood viscosity, which

then is like thinning the blood.

It's a bit like being on statins.

It thins the blood and it's able to carry more oxygen The

other effect that it has on those cells is Helping to reduce inflammation.

So inflammation is another thing that kind of goes hand in hand with pain.

Wherever the site of pain is nine times out of 10, there's inflammation.

Um, and that's kind of causing the pain.

So if we're able to better balance the charge of the cell, then we're

improving the cellular function.

So what we're doing is we're changing the balance of ions on those cells.

And it's.

Able to open the cell membranes.

So it's almost like if you've got a cell, a healthy cell is like nice and circular.

And if you can open those cell channels, you can allow waste materials out

the cell and nutrients into the cell.

So it's kind of like what we would known as a, you know, detoxing.

So if, if we have a good detox, we're getting all the waste

materials out of the cells.

So if we're treating the body at a cellular level.

We're helping to balance the charge in those cells.

We're opening the cell membranes.

We're letting waste material out, nutrients in, and that's going to

help with overall the cell health.

Um, so again, things like cancerous cells or chronically ill people tend to

have very unhealthy, unbalanced cells.

The best way to describe it that we've, we've heard so far is like,

um, PEMF devices is almost like, uh, recharging the batteries in your body,

which will come to, it's kind of like, um, how it helps the mitochondria.

So, um, it's a bit like putting your phone.

So when you put your phone on charge these days, you have a wire charger, but we've,

a lot of it is moving over to wireless charging now, so you can put your phone

on top of a little pad and there's a change of, Energy which charges those

cell batteries and it's a little bit like putting your body onto a PEMF mat.

We're able to transfer the energy from the PEMF into the body.

And that's through mitochondria and the mitochondria is a little bit

like the batteries within the cell.

So we've got like these different batteries inside our cell called

mitochondria, and a lot of the time with chronically ill people, those

will be depleted and that's where we get lack of energy, brain fog.

And if we're able to recharge those mitochondria, as well as PEMF can

help With multiplying mitochondria.

So not only can we help to recharge them, but we can help

them to multiply within a cell.

So it's almost like putting more batteries in that cell.

So we can, we can recharge the cells using PEMF in this exchange of

energy through the magnetic fields.

And that's where we come back to kind of like treating the

body at a cellular level.

Uh, we're kind of like recharging those cells within the body.

Across the whole body that in turn is going to create an

environment in the body to heal.

So yeah, a lot of, uh, a lot of information going on there.

That's amazing.

Thank you.

So who would you summarize this as essentially?

So what you're doing is you're essentially, uh, and correct me if I'm

wrong, you're altering the polarity of the cells so that you are getting.

You're able to get, uh, blood cells basically to move more freely, uh, and by

doing so that allows more oxygen into the system, uh, which obviously helps with

your various biological processes like cellular respiration, et cetera, uh, and

at the same time, you're also increasing the function of the mitochondria,

producing more cellular energy in the form of ATP, which then helps to lower rates of

inflammation, support the immune system, et cetera, and in a nutshell, cell.

Would that be sort of a, sort of a decent summary?

Yes.

I forgot to mention the word ATP to be honest.

And yeah, that is exactly like that.

You know, when you recharge a battery, you're recharging that

ATP and we're starting to hear ATP quite a lot now in like top

athletes and all that sort of thing.

So.

I've mentioned chronically ill people and maybe cancer cells and where PEMF can

be really beneficial, but also, uh, PEMF is really beneficial for those competing

at the top of their game as well.

Those who want that extra, you know, 1%.

And you know, the production of ATP and recovery after training

and all that sort of thing.

It's another thing that we'll probably come to.

Yeah, no, definitely.

Before we carry on.

I'd just like to chat about electrolytes, specifically things

like magnesium and calcium.

If you are altering the cell membrane, and maybe a bit technical, but if you're

altering the cell membrane, you're sort of adjusting how much calcium and

magnesium can go in and out of the cell.

Um, so by sort of supplementing with things like magnesium, things like

potassium and you sort of support the effects of PEMF because more magnesium

you have available, the less calcium you're going to have in a cell.

And as you likely know, calcium, uh, what calcium does is it creates a lot

of excitation in the cell, a lot of inflammation, uh, and it's not necessarily

always needed, but when you sort of take things like, uh, potassium, magnesium,

which help cells to communicate via these electrical impulses, which is what, as you

know, uh, Which is what electrolytes are.

They're, they're molecules that help, uh, cells and herbs and the body communicate.

So if you sort of were to stack these sort of compounds in there, or sort of

basically just remain properly hydrated, have you ever sort of seen that to sort

of be an effective way of supporting PEMF, enhancing its benefits potentially?

Yeah,

definitely.

So we, um, we've actually been looking at some studies that have been using

PEMF to facilitate better absorption of medicines and, and supplements.

So like you say, where you're opening the cell channels and allowing nutrients

in, if you apply PEMF to someone and then they're taking supplements

or medicines, it's actually kind of like enhancing those benefits and the

absorption of those of those supplements.

The other thing that we mentioned a lot with PEMF therapy is for

people to drink a lot of water.

The reason for that is the detoxing effects of water.

So with PEMF, it's not like a heat therapy, so you're not going to

sweat, uh, which is another good way of kind of detoxing the body.

So the way you detox after PEMF therapy is, is through urine.

So we always recommend that people are very well hydrated.

Um, electrolytes are a great way to maintain hydration, especially magnesium.

It's something that is really beneficial for people that are

using PEMF therapy so that you're increasing the health of that cell and.

Like I say, getting the better absorption of the magnesium into those cells.

Yeah, no, that's very poignant.

Let's talk about wifi quickly, because I think people sort of look at these

electromagnetic frequencies and that it's obviously been a lot, it's

been a lot of biohacking spheres, but, um, people tend to freak out

about wifi and probably rightly so.

But how is PEMF?

dissimilar to Wi Fi, uh, how is it safer?

Obviously it's, it's a sort of a more native EMF frequency, um, in

that respect, it's not likely to that same level of damage to the cells,

but would you like, would you be able to sort of elaborate on that?

Yeah, definitely.

It's a good question because it's one we get quite often.

And I used the example earlier of like, if you, if your body was a phone

and you're, and you know, you got the wireless charger and that sort of thing.

And although it's a good way to describe energy transfer, it

also makes people nervous because people are like, well, phone, wifi,

Bluetooth, it's, you know, it's bad.

So it's, it's a good thing for me to explain in terms of the

frequencies that PEMF uses.

So when we talk about frequencies, we're talking about Hertz and

people are probably quite well aware of like 3G, 4G, and now even 5G.

Um, and the kind of worries and the dangers that come with those.

And when we say, gee, we're talking about gigahertz.

And when we're talking about PEMF devices, we're talking about Hertz.

So if you look at a spectrum of frequencies, the, like I mentioned

before, the, the earth gives out its own natural frequency.

So it's, uh, the earth is giving out to everybody.

Everybody is living within the 7.

8 Hertz frequency, which is the Schumann resonance.

So we're all exposed to this frequency every single day, and

this is seen as a natural frequency.

It's seen as something that is helping the body to actually thrive.

So when we talk about Hertz and, and frequencies, they're

not all, they're not all bad.

I think because the media has obviously talked about these high

frequencies and it's become demonized.

When we hear the word, uh, EMF people think, Oh no, that's bad.

Um, but EMF is a electromagnetic frequency.

And a low frequency, a low EMF is what we're talking about with PEMF devices.

So PEMF devices tend to be between one and 30 Hertz.

A lot of devices go up to a hundred Hertz and some devices go higher.

When we're talking about 5g.

We're talking about gigahertz, which is, I can't remember the exact translation,

but I think it's about 50 million Hertz.

So, you know, we're talking about the difference between the earth's

natural frequency, which is 7.

8 and a frequency, which is now 50 million Hertz.

You know, that's, it's a very different frequency that is completely unnatural.

And the differences that it has in the body is that when you apply a

PEMF device, and we, we use this as an example, and we show people that

PEMFs, um, at the therapeutic range that we call it, you know, one to 30

or one to a hundred, they pass through the body and they're not absorbed.

They're not held onto by the cells in the body or, or anything like that.

It's not like PEMF frequencies go in the body and stay there.

They, they come, they pass straight through.

High frequency like 5G tends to be absorbed by the body and that's

why it's, it's seen it's unnatural.

And the effect of this is, is a heating effect.

So when we also talk about microwaves, so we want to heat up, you know, something

we've just put in the microwave.

Again, we're talking in the gigahertz range.

That's because it's absorbed by that.

Particle that's been put into the microwave and it heats it.

So same sort of thing.

And everybody can try this at home.

I don't advise you do, but if you have like an hour phone call with

somebody and you've got your phone up against your ear, it heats up.

You tend to get like a hot ear or the hot side of your head because

those frequencies are unnatural and it's not the best for you.

So.

The biggest difference is coming back to kind of summarizing this one for

everybody is that PEMF has seen as low and natural frequencies and something

that passed through the body and it has a positive effect on the body.

Whereas high frequencies, gigahertz, all that sort of thing.

It's, there's a lot of debate around it at the moment.

We can't sort of say that it's dangerous because it's a, it's

a hotly kind of debated topic.

Um, but we kind of know, we kind of already know it's,

it's not the best for our body.

Yeah, no, there's definitely a lot of anecdotal evidence, people sort of talking

about having, Well, as you mentioned, uh, taking long phone calls and then

all of a, all of a sudden, well sudden.

But every now and again, you hear about somebody who's developed a tumor in

the same side of their head as they use their phone after years and years of use.

So, quick question before we carry on.

The difference between Hertz and Gauss, are they interchangeable with regards to

PEMF or is there a, a dissimilarity there?

Um, maybe not something else.

Yeah.

So it's something that gets confused quite a lot.

Um, gauss is the strength.

So gauss is the magnetic strength of the magnetic field and frequency is the pulse

rate so it's like two different modalities that can be applied at different ranges.

So.

We can apply a device at one gauss, which is quite a low, low intensity device,

and we can apply it at eight Hertz.

So the easiest way to describe it is if we're doing it, um, if we're talking

about the frequency, it's the pulse rate.

And if it's eight Hertz, that will be pulsing eight times per second.

So if we're doing a four Hertz, four times per second, a hundred

Hertz, a hundred times per second.

So it becomes a lot quicker.

And that's what we're saying.

Like if we have a mobile phone, it's at a five G that's pulsing

50 million times every second.

You know, that's, that's the difference is it's the pulse rate.

So.

Again, it's like, uh, frequency is pulse rate and the, uh, intensity is the gauss.

That's the strength of the magnets.

I've noted that some machines, doing research for this podcast go up to

Gauss in the thousands, uh, sort of four or 5, 000 was not

uncommon with some of these units.

What, what did your Celler8 go up to in terms of a Gauss reading?

And what do you think there's a sort of a safe cutoff generally for these sorts

of things, or is that sort of something sort of that's hard to determine this?

Just because it is a relatively new technology.

Yeah.

So it's, it's a really hotly debated topic at the moment.

And I'll tell you what, you know, the route we went down.

So.

PEMF therapy, to be honest, it started really at low intensities

and a lot, the most of the research, about 95 percent of the research

is based around low intensity.

And when I talk about low intensity, I'm talking about devices that are generally

about one gauss to a hundred gauss is kind of in the low to medium intensity ranges.

And most of the studies and everything have all been done

around those intensities.

They have a big enough magnetic field to cover a body and they

have a great effect on the cells.

The thing with when you make a product commercially available and.

where it, it mainly started was people just want to beat each other on features.

And, and one of the modalities, like we said, is, is intensity.

And especially the Americans, you see, you, you tend to get a lot of the high

intensity devices coming out of America, uh, because it's like power, you know,

it's, it's, uh, more power means better.

And.

I personally know we through NewMed, we've sold a low intensity

and high intensity devices, and I've seen some incredible results

coming from high intensity devices.

I've seen some incredible results come from low intensity devices.

We don't tend to recommend that high intensity.

So when we talk about high intensity, we've actually got a

device that goes up to 30, 000 gauss, uh, which is three Tesla.

So we kind of like even putting it into a different bracket.

And to compare that, that's the same as what you'd get from an MRI scanner.

So people go into an MRI scanner to get imagery and they use electromagnetic

fields and those can go up to like three Tesla as well, or sometimes more.

So.

We don't tend to recommend that people buy them devices for home use.

Um, you know, it's like buying an MRI scanner to use at home.

It's, it's just, Doesn't make a whole lot of sense and you don't need to

have those intensities with those intensities usually comes cost as well.

So, you know, the device that we have that 30, 000 gauss, we sell for 25, 000 GBP.

You know, it's, it's quite an expensive product.

It's not a cheap piece of No.

And, and for me, it's overkill for someone to use every day.

They're just, you just don't need that intensity.

What is the use, sorry, what is the use case for something?

So the, where we tend to see those devices going into a lot of

football clubs, because they have on spot injuries, like a broken

ankle or something like that.

And they want to get that healing as quickly as possible.

And they kind of want to apply that to one area of the body rather

than like the whole, whole body.

PEMF therapy really helps with like reducing the recovery time.

So especially football clubs, you know, they have a key player

that goes out injured, they want to get him back on the pitch.

So we see high intensity devices going to places like that and into

professional settings a lot of the time.

So, like I say, if you, if you only use a PEMF device, like.

PEMF devices are really designed to be used daily.

It's something that you integrate into your daily life and

we'll, we'll come into that.

And for that, you only need a low intensity device.

For high intensity devices are better suited at professional settings where

they're seeing people less often.

So they want to apply something at a higher intensity, get more from that

one session, and then maybe they'll see them again in, in one or two weeks.

So that's where we're kind of seeing them more often.

There's also a difference in what you feel with PEMF devices.

So low intensity devices, you don't feel a lot throughout the session.

You can, you can feel your body warm slightly because of the

increased blood flow and the vasodilation from the blood cells.

So you tend to get a nice warming feeling.

And people feel quite relaxed and chill.

And, and to be honest, if, if I'm going to use a PEMF device, I prefer to use

one, uh, kind of a lower to mid range because it's just a more pleasant

experience, super high intensity devices actually create muscle contractions.

So a little bit like a TENS machine, when you, when you crank that up

and you can see every, your muscles kind of contract high intensity

devices can have that effect as well.

And that's where we mentioned before about high intensity devices can also

be quite beneficial for immediate pain relief because they kind of have that,

uh, nulling effect on, on pain signals too, as well as the healing effect.

Yeah.

So in summary, we kind of, we recommend people kind of have a lower intensity

device at home, higher intensity devices.

We seem to kind of see in these clinic settings and for the

Celler8 device, we chose to go up to a maximum of a hundred gauss.

So you can adjust the intensity on our device from one Gauss, which

like you mentioned the Beamer device.

And there's another big brand out there called IMRS and they tend to

be in the super low intensity ranges, around one to maximum about 10 gauss.

The, there's a really good collection of studies that we found that looks at like

up to 90 different PEMF studies and the effect Of those in the body and which ones

were more effective and their conclusion came to, uh, a 10 gauss to a hundred gauss

device is the most kind of therapeutically benefit for the body when used like

on a daily basis or when used often.

So we went down that route with, with the Celler8 device.

And that for me is where I believe the best kind of intensity range

should for someone using at home and using on a daily basis.

Yeah, especially for people with chronic conditions.

I imagine, like you said, it's not really usually being utilized in

an acute setting then, is it, such as you would have within an injury.

Let's talk about PEMF for athletes.

Uh, we, I know we touched on that previously, but, So aside from just the

recovery aspects, is it, is PEMF sort of providing any sort of permormance

enhancements from your sort of experience and obviously observation

with a lot of elite level athletes I'd imagine who are utilizing your devices?

Yeah.

So the thing with PEMF therapy, and it's, it's a good thing and a bad

thing because people sort of say to us, you know, who buys PEMF devices,

who, who's your target audience.

And it's everybody.

Literally is everybody in this planet.

You know, if it was up to me, they should have a PEMF device at home

for a number of different reasons, you know, clinically ill people.

It's all about healing.

You know, it's all about accelerating healing and getting

them back to a healthy state.

Especially with the Celler8 device.

We're seeing that go into so many top level athletes.

If people want to get that extra 1%, and you know, when I talk about the

extra 1%, it's athletes that are at the very, very top of their game.

They're, they're eating correctly.

They're training correctly.

Um, they now want something else to, to get them that extra millisecond.

PEMF therapy is a great thing because.

As we mentioned before, PEMF therapy is great at treating the

body at a cellular level, and it helps with the ATP production.

So we're recharging those cells and allowing more

energy to be used by the body.

So it's almost like a natural process of, you know, I don't

like to say it like this, but it's a natural process of doping.

You know, it's, it's a way of enhancing your performance through

your body's natural processes.

We're seeing a lot of people using PEMF therapy now for, for that,

that process and something that top level athletes like to do.

And it's something that we've now released as part of our Celler8

product is, is red light therapy.

And we'll talk about that as well.

Um, also known as.

Photobiomodulation and the reason PEMF therapy and red light therapy

go so well hand in hand, especially for athletes is PEMF therapy Itself

is really good at recharging the mitochondria and creating additional

ATP And red light therapy is really really effective at Getting the body

to effectively use that additional ATP.

So the combination, the two for, especially for athletes

is, is like super effective.

And, um, we, I I've never used a red light therapy before until about

the last three months, because we launched a red light panel ourselves.

Uh, a full body red light panel under the Celler8 brand, so that you can

actually use the PEMF underneath you.

And then you can use the red light therapy panel above you.

And the benefits of PEMF therapy for me over the last 10 years

have kept me like super healthy.

Um, but the, the combination of the two together.

I just feel like I have so much energy now.

Like it's, um, I used to sit and watch TV in the evenings and now

I drive my wife crazy because I'm just up doing things all the time.

So I'm like building things or breaking things or, you know, and, uh, and if

anything, I, I, I wash up a lot more often now, so it's always energy I need to use.

What, uh, specific wavelengths are you using for your red light?

Are you sort of in that sort of 660 to 880 nanometer wavelength, or are you

looking at something a bit more specific?

Yeah, so we use five different, um, treatment depths and it's between,

yeah, between 600 and, and 110, I believe.

So 8, 810 and 850 are kind of the most researched I believe at the moment.

And they, they come onto our, our red light panel too.

Okay.

So you really are getting that sort of full recovery benefit from both devices.

Aside from athletes, who do you generally see utilizing PEMF sort of your day to

day customers most frequently, are you getting a lot of people sort of going

through chronic health issues, like cancer, people, fractures, what are the

sort of the broadly speaking, the most.

Obvious use cases for this technology.

Yeah.

So, I mean, sadly, most of our customers are chronically ill and

it tends to be the case and, and I feel like healthcare is changing and

people's, people's views on healthcare is changing and we're getting a lot

more people using for preventative maintenance, you know, I use PEMF

therapy and red light therapy every day for preventative maintenance, but.

When we look at our typical customers, I think 80 percent of, of our customers

at the moment, probably now are people that have come to us for, you know,

once they have a chronic illness, we get some incredible results with, you know,

with these things and, and PEMF therapy people just, you know, that it's, it's

not as widely known and it's, it's so underrated compared to what it should be.

We, we offer 30 day return policy on everything we sell because, you know,

Pretty much because of the fact that it's not so widely known and it's not

so widely used that, that we just need people to try it, to understand the

benefits and to understand what it's going to, uh, you know, what's, what

it's going to achieve their body to do.

So, like I say, we, we offer a 30 day, so people can.

Try the therapy themselves and within usually 15 to 30 days, people have

noticed a big difference in either pain reduction or, um, you know, the

condition they're trying to fix or achieve is, is starting to reduce.

We also see, you know, we're not doctors, we don't tell people to stop taking

medication or anything like that, but we also see that really often, you

know, people that are on a complete cocktail of drugs every single day,

a month, two months into using PEMF therapy, They've had a checkup and

all their pain meds start reducing.

So it's like, it's another really great effect that we see happening

with people that introduce PEMF therapy into their life.

But yeah, a lot of the time it is chronic conditions.

Osteoarthritis is a, is a big one because it's a lot more researched in that area.

Conditions that are listed by the FDA.

So there's something I haven't mentioned.

There's the FDA in the USA can put together PEMF with certain

conditions as a recommendation.

And it turned it, it tends to start putting people down

those treatment options.

And there's been a number of different things that have

been recommended by the FDA.

So actually brain cancer is one of those things with PEMF,

osteoporosis, osteoarthritis, non union fractures that we mentioned before.

And, uh, general wound healing as well as depression as well.

So that's another thing we haven't really touched on is, is mental health.

So we tend to see people coming to us for those specific conditions because

they've seen that the FDA recommends PEMF therapy for it, or they've found

through Google that it's an effective treatment for those processes, but

kind of coming back to the beginning.

In terms of how PEMF therapy is good for everybody, you know, putting it in simple

terms, again, all we're doing is creating an environment in the body to heal.

So we're just trying to get the body to do what it should be doing properly.

And in turn, the effect of that is, is healthier cells and a healthier person.

Ultimately, I suppose all you're doing is you're just allowing the

body to be able to create more energy, which it is then, which is then,

it is able to then use to obviously start healing what, what is basically

dysfunctional at that moment in time.

Are there any sort of individuals who should be wary of it?

Uh, people with pacemakers, uh, those sorts of conditions.

Yeah, yeah.

So I mean the, the, the, uh, what we tend to tell people and PEMF therapy, and this

is well documented that it, it has no side effects or no ill effects for people.

The only major contraindicator is pacemakers, like you mentioned,

because of the unknown, you know.

Pacemaker is an electronic device, which is controlling the heartbeat.

We don't want to implement any kind of thing that can disrupt that.

So putting a, an electromagnetic field through an electrical product,

there's just a risk involved.

So we do tell people, unfortunately, that anybody with a pacemaker

just cannot use PEMF therapy.

So that's the ultimate kind of contraindicator.

The, the rest are kind of more.

To be used with caution.

And, and that is a lot of manufacturers will stipulate not to use with cancer.

Again, that kind of comes down to more of a lack of research than anything.

As I mentioned before, we work with a doctor in Germany who is a cancer

specialist and, you know, he recommends PEMF therapy to all his patients

and he gets such amazing results.

But like I say, from a legal standpoint, a lot of the manufacturers would sort

of say, you know, do not use a cancer.

Um, and pregnancy, again, it's another one that is, you know, it's, it's the unknown.

We wouldn't want to disrupt any kind of processes going on during pregnancy.

Um, so it's just one of the ones we, we usually say use of caution.

But as I mentioned, there's, there's no ill effects from PEMF therapy

that unknown, and there's no way of overdosing from it either.

You can lay on a PEMF mat 24 hours a day and it's, it's pointless to do.

So let me kind of make that, make that clear because.

The processes that happen with it within PEMF usually happen within 10 minutes and

then those effects on the cells in the body usually last for at least 8 hours.

So that's why we tend to tell people that using a PEMF device at home is the best.

Form of application because you're can apply it once in the

morning and if you want to, you can apply it once in the evening.

It also is important for people to use the right frequencies at the

right time of day, which we've made really simple with Celler8 device.

So we, we, our programs are actually called Morning, evening, and Night, you

know, so it's, it can't be any more.

Easy to use in terms of you'll be using a higher frequency in the morning

and a lower frequency in the evening.

And that is assisting with the circadian rhythm.

So our brain functions at different frequencies throughout the day.

We tend to operate at a higher frequency in the morning in the

theta range or the gamma range.

And we tend to operate more in Delta frequencies where

we're, when we're asleep.

So we want to apply the frequencies at the right time of day to

keep the circadian rhythm going.

Yeah.

I think that that kind of summarizes that sums

it up.

Yeah.

I think we're coming up on time, but I think it's always sort of

nice in these podcasts with how you sort of incorporate these

modalities into your life in general.

Uh, and what it is, I mean, you've already sort of touched upon it a few

times, as you've mentioned, but I assume you're utilizing PEMF almost daily.

And what else are you doing to sort of optimize your health

around, around your specific needs?

Well, not issues, but, um, around your goals, around what

it is that you're trying to do.

Yeah, definitely.

So, you know, I, I, I tend to coin myself as a bit of a biohacker, um, these days

to, you know, I want to biohack my health in terms of being the healthiest I can be

and living the longest and, and looking the youngest for the, for the longest

time I can, you know, I'm pushing 40 now, so nearly, nearly over the hill.

I, um, I, uh, in terms of what I do daily.

So I have a, uh, what we call now as a Celler8 biohacker package.

And that is like I mentioned, it's our PEMF mat on the bottom and our

full body red light panel on the top.

And for myself, I use that 15 minutes a day.

That's it.

So in, and to incorporate that into my life.

All I literally did was, you know, my, my alarm clock is usually set

for seven in the morning, but what I tend to do now is set up a 6 45.

I roll out of bed, I roll straight downstairs into the room that we've got

the, the PEMF and the red light set up.

And I get my 15 minute session on the morning session and.

I've also got a cold tub out in the garden, which, you know, I kind of,

I don't use that every day, but I tend to use that when I want a bit

of mental clarity and a bit of hope.

Yeah.

So I did use that this morning.

So I did my red light and, and PEMF therapy this morning.

Then I rolled out into, into my cold tub and I did that.

So really, you know, and that's a three minute dip.

So it's.

In total that my process of using these devices per day is 20 minutes.

And that's all I do with chronically.

All people, like we mentioned before, we tend to ask them to use

it a little bit more frequently.

So if you can get a PEMF session in at least twice, or maybe even three times

a day, depending on your time schedule.

But so someone like myself, that's relatively quite healthy, um, Yeah,

preventative maintenance, optimizing performance, all that sort of thing,

you know, 20 minutes a day for me of my biohacking kind of devices is all I need.

No sauna just yet.

Sorry?

No sauna just yet.

No sauna just yet, but my, my older brother who I mentioned before and is

running the business next door to us, he actually lives next door to me too.

So we've got businesses next door to each other.

We live next door to each other.

And he's just bought one of those super duper sunlight and saunas and, you know,

it's got infrared in it and also, so, uh, I, I jump over there and use that

every time, every, every other day.

So that's, uh, that's useful.

Um, what's next for Celler8 and you, uh, do you have any sort

of new products you're working on?

Are you just Looking to potentially maybe just update the firmware, new features.

Yeah.

What's next.

Who does.

Yeah.

I mean, we, we want to, you know, the good thing about having our manufacturer,

which is my family business next door to us, is we can continually tweak the

device and make it as best as we can.

So we've done a number of different things by optimizing the product as it

is, but we're soon to launch, uh, The kind of office package, because it's

something that a lot of people ask us.

So we're actually launching a slightly smaller PEMF device

that will go on an office chair.

You can also put it on a car, you know, car seat and that sort of thing as

well, because one of these things is, is time, you know, people, people are busy.

They don't want to take time out of their day to, to do this.

To use it, you know, the, the full body device, which was what I've got at the

home and is the best thing you do have to dedicate 15, 20 minutes to, you know, to

getting on that and laying and chilling.

But we're going to release this office package, which is going

to be a smaller PEMF device that goes in your office chair.

And it's actually a little desktop red light device too.

So you can literally.

Be sitting there working and getting 20 minutes, 30 minutes

of, of PEMF and red light.

And you can just whack that straight into your office space.

And I, and I think that's going to be a really good little

product for a lot of people.

Cool.

That's awesome.

Where's the best place for people to find you?

So you can find the, um, you know, if you're from the UK

and you want to PEMF device, then you can look at NewMed limited.

And that's newmedltd.co.uk worldwide is obviously the Celler8 product.

And we can ship that anywhere.

You know, we're shipping a lot of those into the States now, and you can find

that at celler8.com, which is C E L L.

ER eight.com and then you can find the products on there.

Uh, we're also on Instagram and we have our own podcast, so you can kind of

come along and have a little listen.

Brilliant.

We'll be linking all those in the show.

Definitely.

Andy, thank you so much for your time.

It's uh, I've learned a lot and I'm sure our listeners have too.

But yeah, thank you so much for your time.

Yeah, thanks for having me on today, Rob.