Well, hello everybody and welcome to another amazing episode of Unstoppable Success.

I am your host, Jacqueline Strominger.

And on this podcast, as you know, we hear from amazing leaders with their game changing insights so that you can learn from them so that you can be unstoppable and have unstoppable success.

And today I have the absolute pleasure of introducing you to Kevin Lewis.

And let me tell you a little bit about Kevin.

He's the founder of the LHE Organizational Consulting and it's a firm specializing in improving teamwork, leadership skills, communication and work relationships within corporations.

It's like speaking my language.

He has worked with Fortune 100 firms both nationally and internationally, helping organizations work more effectively by pinpointing the biggest opportunities that can be improved with the least amount of effort.

He has a wide background, work coming from Chevron, great leadership abilities.

So, Kevin, welcome to Unstoppable Success.

Thank you for being here.

It's great to be here.

Thanks.

So, Kevin.

All right, so you know, I always love this.

Chevron is a massive company.

And so when I think of that and you were in there, how did you kind of rise up into that leadership role?

Well, I sneaked in the back door when nobody was looking.

You know, it is funny, I grew up in Miami, Florida and I used to get Chevron gas all the time and never thinking I would end up working for the company because, you know, I don't have a business degree.

I have an undergraduate in journalism, I have a master's in mass communication and I was working for two non profit organizations.

You know, my parents were teachers.

So the whole business thing was, it's just kind of, I give it to God, it just kind of fell in my lap and it was kind of funny.

And I was, as I look at these, I think about my life, it's like, okay, why did I want to go to a consulting.

And I remember when I was in the eighth grade, I read some books, some story about people who would go into organizations, diagnose stuff, talk to people, give them results, and then they would leave.

And I thought that's kind of cool.

It really planted the seed when I was around 12 or 13, you know, you just kind of give them expertise and then you leave and it's up to them to figure it out.

I thought that'd be fun.

So it's just kind of as we were morphing along, I was actually working in New Orleans for the American Heart association and it was my second nonprofit job.

And I thought I, you know, and I love helping people and all that kind of stuff.

I'm not kind of a soul, but I thought, I got to make some money.

I'm never going to get married, have kids, you know, this kind of thing.

So I was waiting.

I looked around New Orleans, and the most people with money who.

Who didn't, you know, grow up with it, get inherited, worked for oil companies.

So one day, these two safety engineers came in my office at the Heart association, and they said, hey, we need your help.

I said, what's that?

He goes, we need you to set up some CPR training for the guys offshore.

This is before women were working offshore, which is guys, right?

I said, okay, one exception or one?

One condition.

I said, what?

I said, I want to meet the head of HR because I like the Heart association, but I'd be interested in your organization.

Long story short, taught the class.

The HR guy liked me, got hired, and I was a regional training coordinator.

There were 2,000 people in that area, most of them on offshore platforms.

And the World War II guys were retiring, and.

And then we were.

They were booming, hiring people.

79, 80, 1981, it was just the.

The boom, right?

So I just slipped in.

And then about six months later, they stopped because prices are going up and down.

Anyway, I did training and coordination stuff.

And.

And the other thing that got me going was we spent a lot of money training people on leadership development and all this stuff.

And two things got my attention.

It didn't really work very well, and I didn't know why.

And I started thinking to myself, what are.

What are the barriers in the system for people to apply the learning?

What's going on here, right?

And that planted the seed to get my doctorate.

And the other thing was, I was.

I had consultants coming and doing technical writing, communication skills, leadership stuff.

I sign the invoices.

And in the 80s, they were making 1500 bucks a day.

In today's dollars, that's about four or five grand.

And I was thinking, they're not any smarter than I am.

I got to get in on this gig, right?

So that planted a seed.

But I was frustrated.

I was in the same job for nine years, okay?

Same.

Same role.

I couldn't go anywhere.

I was at the top of my.

So I had to.

I had to leave the company.

So I started.

I said, I met my wife at chevron, basically, in 87 or so.

And I said to her, I said, look, I said, I'm going to get my PhD.

I'm going to let the company pay for it, and then I'm going to Leave, because this is.

I'm going nowhere fast.

So she agreed, started to get through New Orleans and then ended up getting an opportunity to move to Houston, Texas in 1990.

Moved there and then it was a blessing because I ended up commuting from Houston to Austin.

And my PhD is an organization developed from UT Austin.

Okay.

Just like world class faculty and all that stuff.

So it was.

I knew I had to do something different, but I started a PhD at 35, you know, and you know what made me mad?

I had to take the GRE again.

Sorry.

It's like, really, people.

Do you really need that?

Can I just apply experience?

It was insane.

Yeah, I already have a master's.

But anyway, it was a great experience.

But the other thing that got my attention, Jacqueline, was the HR manager was.

Had no credibility back in New Orleans.

He didn't understand the business.

And I used to love going offshore, okay.

Flying in helicopters.

You know, I was in my 20s and just, just seeing the business going out there.

And the water is.

Once you get about 10 miles out of New Orleans, you're away from Mississippi River.

The water looks like the Bahamas.

It's clear as a bell.

You can see fish swimming underneath the platforms and all that kind of stuff.

And I really appreciated those men and then eventually women working their butts off, getting their own gas out of the ground because that pays.

That paid my paycheck.

And I had great credibility with them because if they ever needed anything, I would, I'd help them out.

And anyway, so I just, I, I love the business.

And that's what I tell HR people.

It's like, look, if you don't know the business, you'd have zero credibility, you know, and they don't need to understand.

Right.

You have to go.

Yeah.

In hr, you have to know who your customers are.

And your customers in HR are your employees.

And you have to know their work.

You don't obviously have to know specifically everything that they're doing, but that's immersing yourself into their world so that they see you.

Yeah, yeah.

It's huge.

And unfortunately, we had a couple of fatalities out there on the same platform when I was there.

And I was buddies with the safety engineers.

So what?

After those tragedies, they would do their after action reviews and they were their analysis, the root cause analysis.

And then I would go with them and we would do videotapes to.

And do instructional stuff to prevent it from ever happening again.

And when you.

And because remember, I have a master's mass communication, right.

So I was very Good at that stuff.

So when you have to write a script around combustible gas detectors, H2S, all that stuff, you really get to know the business well.

So as a layman, I knew it as well as anybody could without being an engineer.

And that gave me a lot of credibility.

And here's the best part that the guys who were, I was coming up with in the 80s and Chevron years later, they were running upstream and I knew all of them.

So when I was a consultant, it was like, oh, Kevin, come here, come down to Buenos Aires, we need your help.

That kind of thing, right?

So you, you said something that was that I, I kind of want to go back to.

You said that, you know, in, at Chevron, you know, all this leadership stuff is happening and they're doing all this course, but it was like, take the class, but it didn't go anywhere.

So what were the blocks?

I think a lot of times the boss won't let me do it type thing.

I think there wasn't a strategic imperative around skills around certain competencies.

It wasn't very sophisticated back then.

You know, you just had consultants coming in and you know, they would do some stuff.

You'd send somebody out to a workshop and the one time that it really works.

Well, this is interesting story.

So usually I was corporation San Francisco at the time was pushing stuff down and I would have to kind of push it through as well.

And people went, I don't care about that.

But one day a guy came to my office and they were the ones who actually installed the offshore platforms.

And he said, I need your help.

I said, oh, this is great.

I'm always going to.

And he's coming to me, what is it?

He said, you know, we have some very smart engineers, but they don't have any business backgrounds.

They don't, they don't really negotiate very well.

So when we install the offshore platforms, we sign a contract with the supplier and then a week later they say, we want to move the bunkhouse 10ft to the right.

We get to pay for the changes, you know.

So I said, what do you need?

So, well, we need some negotiation skills.

So I found a guy who had just, he worked for Avondale Shipyards.

He was a HR guy and he went off on his own.

He wrote a book, Frank Acha, how to Negotiate Anything with Anyone around the World.

You know, he was a really good guy, still around.

So I brought him in and basically we did a two day workshop.

We videotaped people, we did scenarios.

You know, they practice and I Said to myself, I have to measure the impact on this thing and it.

And because the dollars are so huge.

So I did a little, I sent out a three question thing if it made a difference, but what was it?

And the ROI on that was huge.

And I did that.

Nobody had ever done that before.

It was just so basic stuff.

Right.

And the dollars were amazing.

I even said if you think it would made it worse, tell me that too.

So it wasn't just a shill anyway, they got me.

Great, great.

That's great cred.

Yeah, it was.

Yeah.

But there were no barriers on that one because they needed it and they asked for it.

That's very different than here's what you need to do coming from the gods.

And I go like, I don't have to do that.

I'd rather be my, do my engineering.

Right.

So it's interesting.

I, I think there's two things.

It's, it's what I'm thinking about that is that.

It's really hard when people push, manage like push an education on you versus people who raise their hand.

But the other thing too is if I go to a workshop and I learn something and I come back, the leader should be able to hopefully say what did you learn?

How can you, how can we bring what you learned into this?

And hopefully that leader went to the same workshop too or has been through it so that they can help elevate people.

That's exactly the way it should be.

And we got towards that towards the end.

But the funny part was sometimes the egos are so big.

I would say let's say it's a two day workshop for the engineer, but.

And I'd have to go to the bosses and say look, I know you already know this stuff but we're going to do a half day refresher thing for you.

And that one day they could sneak it and they wouldn't, they wouldn't have to admit that I don't know how to do this stuff either.

Right.

So you have to play that game a little bit.

Yeah.

It's interesting because to me one of the biggest things about leadership and we talk about that in our book Charting True north that I co authored.

We talk about being an authentic leader.

It's kind of a new word, authentistic versus authentic, but where you really know yourself and you're always working on yourself.

And then because you're working on yourself, hopefully you're people will know that oh, I can work on myself too.

That's a model as Right.

It's it's, you know, I think about, you know, school.

Right.

Like when I was, you know, whip.

Right.

Works in progress.

Yep.

I love that.

And that's.

That's a great model.

So are you familiar with the center for Creative Leadership in Greensboro, North Carolina?

I know about it, yes.

Okay.

Ccl, because I'm going to piggyback on something.

You said they did some research many years ago, and it's a research oriented organization.

It was actually started by the guy who made.

Who invented Vicks Vapor Rub, if you can't believe that.

Exactly.

It's a nonprofit.

They.

They did cutting edge research on creativity and leadership, and many of the best consultants in the world started at ccl.

Then they go off on their own and mysteriously, their instruments look very similar.

You know, this kind of thing.

Right.

But a lot of their research, they looked at what separates the C suite for middle management.

And there are two.

This is the research.

And there are two basic things.

Not being.

Not being afraid to ask for help and knowing when you're over your head.

And that's the vulnerability, that's the authenticity.

People ask me, what's the number thing for leadership thing.

Authenticity.

People know.

If they can know in a second, if you're blowing smoke, they can pick up on it.

Right, right.

No, you.

They can, but that's actually the real.

I. I love that.

I love that.

Because, you know, I'm just thinking about, you know, we had this conversation the other day, my co author and I, we were talking about how, you know, you hire people and it's also the Dale Carnegie role.

Right?

You hire people who are smarter than you.

You have.

That's a number.

One and two, you are not an expert in everything.

Nobody is.

Right.

You have to know that.

So as a leader.

Right.

So.

So basically what you're just saying is, know when it's not your expertise or not your superpower, make sure that you are able to say, okay, you know, I could say, hey, Kevin, that's your superpower.

Jacqueline, this is my superpower.

You know, Bob, that's your superpower.

You know, and so we can work together as a team.

And then also being able to say, okay, all right, you know what this is, you know, being able to say, oh, this is not mine.

Oh, Kevin, you do it.

Yeah.

And not only that, it's also, where's the organization going?

So I have a very recent client with the last couple of years, and the chairman of the board and the chief human resource officers wanted me to work with the succession.

So you got the chairman who's getting ready to leave.

And then I coached three.

They're all men, unfortunately.

I mean, I like.

I like executive women, too, but one was a chief technology officer, one was chief operations.

The other one was another level.

And I coached them for a year and did all these instruments and everything.

And the board wanted to know who should be the next CEO.

Right.

It's.

It's some of the coolest work I've ever done.

I mean, I'm just.

I'm probably at my peak right now, much better than I was 20 years ago.

Right.

So I did all this, but then it was like it wasn't just who's the best for the match, who's the best for where the company's going in three to five years.

And like, one of the chief technology officers, actually one guy was an R and D guy.

And I said, do you want to have an R and D guy at the top and you have good operations people around him, or do you want to have an operations guy in charge and then he can use the R and D people.

So it's always the team.

It's not just who's the best batch individual, what's your core stuff?

But that was a lot of cool work.

That is really, really cool.

And it's really understanding.

And what you just said, I think is so important.

So, you know, I want to actually make sure we point this out.

It's your team, and this goes to your book, which you have now written, which is teams, tools and trials.

So tell us a little bit about the book.

You know, the main reason I wrote it was so that my adult children knew what I did when I'm gone.

I want them to know this.

And when you say, I have a degree in organization development, people say, what the hell does that mean?

I would go off, I'd be overseas, I'd come back, and they have no idea what I did.

Now they're 33, 30, and 26.

And we.

It's funny, we could talk business down to get it.

So my first goal was to do that.

The second was, you know, I have a lot of wisdom.

I studied under the masters, these unbelievably sharp people, kind of like Yoda, you know, or Grasshopper, get the pebble for my hand type thing.

So I wanted to put that knowledge available to anybody, whether a line leader or.

Or an HR person.

And it was funny because a buddy of mine is a former CEO and when you look at all the marketing on writing a book, make it a very narrow target audience.

If it's to everybody, it's a nobody.

So I reluctantly did it for HR people because I never even liked being in hr.

I, I, I, I, I really didn't.

Okay.

When I went to Houston in 1990 from New Orleans, and it was in a quality, quality tool, quality management role, you know, and it was so nice not being in hr because a lot of times HR was an impediment.

I was always close to the line people, hanging out with them, and I'd have to kind of educate the HR person I reported to.

And sometimes it works and sometimes it didn't.

So that was very frustrating to me.

But anyway, my CEO buddy said, kevin, you got two target audiences.

This guy was a CEO.

He said, don't just blow out the leaders.

So I had to redo the book.

And I said, there's an HR kind of focus and there's a line leader focus and how do they come together?

So that's why I did it.

I love that.

But it's, you know, something that you just said, you know, to have that success, you have to talk to.

We always have more than one audience or more than one customer, right?

And you have to remember that, you know, if you're moving up in something and you want to have that success, right, you have to think about, yes, the people above you, but you always have to be thinking about the team, those, that's part of your customer.

If you're serving a client, it's, that's another customer.

And they both need to be, they both need to feel that they're number one.

It's exactly right.

And you just described the 360 process, 360 feedback.

And I'm certified in several of those things.

And the way that works is, you know, you, you take, you take an instrument.

I'm a, I'm a big diagnostic guy.

I like to have In God We Trust.

All others bring data.

You know, that's the thing.

I gotta have data, right?

So you do your thing and then your boss gives you some feedback.

This is on an instrument.

Your peers, your subordinates and your stakeholders, and all of them are important.

But it's interesting politically, when I would look at the 360 feedback and I'm coaching somebody and I said, look, your peers can take you down on a heartbeat.

Your subordinates are important.

But if you and your boss are not aligned, you're screwed, dude.

So we start with, we start with the boss, you know, and then we'll do the other stuff, but as a prioritization and that, but that data can be very powerful to under, but you're exactly right.

You've got.

And they all have different target audiences with different needs, and you have to approach them differently.

Right, but this is the other thing you just said.

So, listeners, I want you to take note on this.

If you're not aligned with your, with your CEO, and if you are the CEO, you need to make sure that you're aligned with your team.

And it's a huge thing that I feel like so many people don't focus on.

Right.

So, you know, how different could a company be if the CEO said, okay, I know my, as I call it the achievement code, or your core values, whatever you want to call it.

I love calling it achievement code, but what are your values?

You know, as and as a CEO, it better be the same as the company or like, damn well similar.

Right, right.

You know, and then what about the people that you're bringing in?

Right.

Yeah.

And how do you.

And it's not always going to be perfect.

Right?

Right.

No, but I, I think at least espousing your values is, is important and also showing that you're a human being, not just the boss.

And I'll give you a quick example of that.

You'll love this one.

So GE, 30 years ago, came up with a thing called New Leader Assimilation in la.

Okay.

And, and it's a way, like when you become a leader after the first month or so, let's say you're, you're a manager, a leader, and you've got a team and you've worked with them for a month.

What we would do would be.

And this is, and I did my own version of it, but GE coin this thing, it's a workshop where basically you, you get people in a room and the leaders there and you do some pre work.

But it's like, okay, what, what does Jacqueline need to know about our team?

What are the biggest concerns you have about her?

What do you want to know about her as a person?

All this kind of stuff.

And you, you do.

Can I come into your office?

Could I.

Do I have to.

Could I text her all this kind of stuff?

But what I would do, these nlas, I would say to the manager, I need you to say something that would show that you're a human being, not just the boss.

It doesn't have to be a big deal.

And I'll never forget this, Scott.

There was a guy up in Pittsburgh I worked with, and I'm talking, I'm going to give you the exact words that he says.

So I'm talking to him the day before with the HR manager.

And I was up to do this leadership thing.

And I said, hey, Todd, I said, could you tomorrow just, just let people know kind of who you are, not the boss.

Can you tell me like a story that you're comfortable sharing is her?

He said, I used to be a real.

I said, really?

I said, what changed?

He goes, well, my, my wife got breast cancer and I almost lost her.

Yeah, I still get a little emotional thinking about it.

And I said, wow.

And he said, in fact, she said to me, my getting breast cancer is the best thing that ever happened to you.

You know, because it showed his, his values in life.

It.

Are they?

And I said, damn, that's, that's awesome.

I said, would you, would you be comfortable sharing that tomorrow in nla?

He said, yeah.

So when he, when he did that, you could just.

There were.

He had like seven direct reports.

Men and like two women.

And you can see the women just kind of melt.

You know, it's like, well, he loves his wife and all that stuff, you know, but it doesn't have to be that dramatic.

But that one, I'll never forget that.

It was so powerful because he goes, I'm a human being, just like you.

Vulnerable and, and not perfect.

Right, Right.

Isn't it cool?

That is so cool.

That is, it's great.

It's.

But I mean, great for he and his wife, that, that, I mean, I'm assuming that they, they stayed together and she survived and.

Right.

Yeah, yeah, she did.

Yeah.

You know, but that he came to realize that and it's, it's one of those things and I think about this, you know, what, you know, one of the things that, why leadership, you know, was so important to me is because when I was, when I was in my first jobs, you know, it was about the grind.

It was like, it was.

I felt like, you know, you had to be, you know, working, you know, the 80 hour work week and don't take vacation and whatever.

And that's not human nature.

I mean, that's not who we are.

And that doesn't.

And so I love that because it also, it just shows that he was a real human.

He under.

Has empathy for the people in the world and you know, and sometimes you need a wake up call to say, hey, guess, snap out of it.

You know, you've got to be a person, be a person first.

It is and it really helped.

And it could be maybe like to cook what books you read, movies, it has to be that dramatic.

But, you know, and I'll tell you.

And my values have always been faith, family, work is last.

It's always third.

It's important, right?

But as an example, I could have made a lot more money with my own consulting firm, okay?

Because, you know, it works.

Let's say you got five consultants working for you, and you build them out at 2,000 bucks a day, and you pay them a thousand bucks a day more money.

But I never wanted the pressure of the payroll and all that.

I've always just been.

I got a subchapter s. I have, you know, friends I can use, referrals and stuff and, you know, kind of semi partners.

But I never wanted to do that because I didn't want the pressure of doing the payroll.

I didn't want to work 80 hours a week.

That's why I stayed.

In fact, I actually.

I left chevron after 18 years.

You'll love this story, too.

Real quick.

So I was there 18 and a half years, and I got really good at helping people after layoffs, you know, and we had a technology group that I worked in.

50% cuts, okay?

And then I got intrigued around, how do we put these people back together again after they seen their best friend get fired?

Layoff Survivor syndrome is what it's called, you know, So I.

After about a year after these layoffs, I could see the survivors, the employees still in the organization were depressed.

You know, you could just tell they were bummed.

And so I put on a workshop, and I brought people back a year later who had been laid off, who had successfully transitioned, and I did a workshop for the survivors, and I went to the managers, and I said, look, I want to bring some people back who were fired, blah, blah, blah.

Said, no, no, we don't want you to do that.

I said, screw it.

I'm doing it anyway.

You know, I did.

I said, I don't care.

Fire me.

You know, because I knew it was the right thing to do.

And I did a panel.

Like, one person had gone to work for another oil company, another started a business.

Somebody else went back to school.

They were all really good.

And.

But they had three questions on a flip chart.

What did you do at Chevron?

What are you doing now?

And what was your journey like?

Describe the journey.

And.

And it was so powerful because most people.

Jacqueline is amazing.

So that the former.

The.

The current employees were in the room.

In the beginning, they kind of felt sorry for these people.

And then about 30 minutes later, they were admiring them.

And then about an hour later, they were jealous.

I was gonna say, I'm like, wait a minute.

That could have backfired on you in the sense of, like, they would be like, can I get it?

Can I get an exit package?

Well, yeah, that was funny.

Yeah, exactly.

Because almost always I see people who do better.

Ironically, about three years later, I got taken out.

My whole department was eliminated.

Okay?

So I, My wife was pregnant, third with our third child, about five months pregnant with our third child.

Lose my job after eight and a half years.

And I, and I, I prayed about it.

I said, hey, you know what?

I'm 46 years old, I've got a PhD.

The company paid for it.

What a great opportunity.

Okay.

So I taught at a university for a year, and then I, I consulted on the side.

I got to work with Bristol Mars, Squibb, Honeywell, Dell Computer, all this kind of stuff.

And seven years later, I was, I was making some coin, I was really enjoying it.

And I was actually consulting back to Chevron.

And one of my friends I bumped into, he said, have you ever thought about coming back, getting rehired?

I thought, I don't know, you know?

And then they said, well, we could bridge your service.

Which means, what that means is Chevron's one of the few companies left that you get not only a 401k, but you have a pension and you get a lump sum annuity.

Okay.

And what happens is.

Yeah, so if you, I, you know, if you were 40 years old and had 15 years service, that you got 55 points, okay, well, when you come back, if you get rehired, you start up again.

You don't have to start all over again.

So when they bridge your service, I mean, it was.

I ran the numbers with my financial guy.

He goes, dude, you just got to stay on the payroll, you know?

Anyway, here's the funny part.

I came back after working in different industries.

I was like a guru.

It was like you, my, I see, my Chevron friends, they said you went on the outside.

Like I went to Mars or something because, like, I've been to another planet, right?

Because when you've been in the same ministry a long time, you get kind of stale, right?

So, such a blessing.

Anyway, that's when I got to go international, did a lot of overseas work, and it was amazing.

It was such a blessing to get nuked.

But, so this is another really key, important point.

What you just said, I think is really huge.

You reinvented yourself.

You were always reinventing yourself and always thinking so that unstoppable success is all about reinvention.

And I think, and I think it's really important because most people don't stay at a company that long.

But if you do stay at a company that long, don't be afraid to leave.

You might love the company.

But think about the experience that you could get.

Let's say, for example, you're at Chevron and you think, okay, I'm in this role, I really want X experience.

It's not open to me here.

Where can I go and get it?

So if you search for the company that you can go and get X knowledge and then if you really love the, the culture at Chevron or whatever company, you know, you're, you're at X, you want to get Y knowledge, but you can always go back to X once you get the knowledge.

And then usually when you do that, right, you might get up here like you might jump your pay raise.

Oh, I got to, I got a double buck.

It was amazing.

Yeah, because I mean, most people don't have the chutzpah to do that.

Okay.

I mean, literally when I went to, when I, you know, left and I taught at the university, I took a 40,000 year pay cut.

Okay.

So this, this is a pretty funny story too.

This is, this is a scream.

So I had seen, I had a professor at Tulane University in New Orleans who I use and he, he came in and he would teach the technical writing, communication skills and all that.

And he said, Kevin, for every dollar I teach, I make it to Lane, I make three consulting, you know, And I thought, okay, that's pretty good.

And I like that model.

So if you're at a university, you've got enough money to pay the bills, you're not going to starve, but everything else is gravy, right?

So I, I taught for a year at it's, it was called Houston Baptist University.

It's now at Houston Christian University in the MBA program.

Right.

So here's the funny part.

So I, you're going to love this story.

So I'm interviewing with the dean and all this kind of stuff.

And I said, hey, I said, you know, how much time am I going to have to consult?

Because you know, I'm taking a forty thousand dollar year pay cut to work at your university.

He goes, well, you'll have summers off.

I said, well, that's good teaching.

And they were on the quarter system, three quarters of two semesters.

And I said, okay.

And he said, and between the quarters, okay, that's good.

What about during the school year?

One day a week, you know, that they define.

I said, cool.

Said, oh, that's good.

Should have got into writing.

Okay, you know where I'm going with this, right?

So I'm teaching, I'm doing my thing and I'm doing all this kind of stuff.

And about two weeks after I started full time, I got a voicemail from his secretary.

And she's one of these.

And I'm.

I'm a Methodist.

Okay.

We actually drink, right?

You know, these Baptist University, you know, they say they do.

They just.

They're not supposed to.

It's more fun, right?

So anyway, she just really straight Lace, the dean's secretary.

So I get this voicemail and she goes, well, Dr. Lewis, we have your summer school schedule, blah, blah, blah.

I go, whoa, whoa, whoa.

I called her up and I said, I don't teach summer school.

That was the, the agreement we had.

The dean.

She goes, well, everybody teaches summer school.

I said, no, I don't teach summer school.

So we went on.

Finally I said, I'm not going to say the word, but I said, let me put it to you this way.

I don't teach effing summer school.

She goes.

She goes, oh.

So I knew it was a downhill slide after that, right?

So what happened was.

And then I was.

Here's what my schedule was.

Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, I had night classes.

They want you there during the day for faculty meetings, you know, and several times I would leave at 9 o' clock at Wednesday night, drive to Austin, three hours, get there at midnight, and I would consult at Dell the next day.

Okay.

I did that for several months, right?

So.

But I knew the Dell experience would be huge for me, right?

And finally it just, it didn't work out.

And I told the dean, I said, you know, I'm done.

But the whole.

Because let's just say the teaching is what I really enjoyed the most.

Adjunct.

But the faculty meetings and all this kind of stuff.

And when I finally walked in his office, I said, I'm not coming back in the fall.

And he said, well, you weren't very good in the first place.

And he stopped out of his office.

I thought I wanted to stop out of your office.

He beat me to it.

But it's.

But you know, it's true.

Okay, so other thing.

Obviously get things in writing.

And it's so true.

But you know, having meetings for meetings is one thing, right?

If you're not going to get something done in the meetings, that's.

Then it's a waste, right?

But you need to move the needle.

You need to move the needle forward.

But that's the other key Key lesson in that is being able to understand the people that are, you know, that are your audience.

Everybody has a different, you know, if you're open to people and ex.

If they're, if you love their expertise and you want them in your company, but maybe they have a brand new baby or maybe they are.

Maybe they do want to go back to school to get something.

Sure, sure.

Work with them.

Don't hold them back.

Let them do it.

Support them.

Exactly.

Support the people.

And if you're in a company that doesn't have that support, you know what I would say?

Take a hike.

Like, sorry, buddy, you know what?

There are other companies out there that will you do.

Nobody should ever be in a company or be with a leader who does not support them.

And you make sure that you are a leader who supports the people that are on your team.

It's huge.

Because people don't leave companies, they leave bosses.

Yes.

You know that.

And, and this, this Dean, the funny part, he was jealous I was making more money than he was.

A.

Okay, that's also an issue.

Yeah, exactly.

And it was just, it was just not a good situation.

But anyway, I thought it was pretty funny.

But yeah, Kevin, I could talk to you for hours, but let's find out, like, how can you, how can my listeners learn about you, connect with you?

Get your book.

I'll actually put a. I actually will give the book in the book note in the footnotes of the.

In the show notes.

But tell us how we.

They can connect with you and get more of you.

Yeah, my website, it's.

It's Kevin J. Lewis, PhD.

Okay, go to Kevin J. Lewis, PhD.com.

we'll put that also in the show notes, but that'd be great.

Yeah, and then they can connect me on LinkedIn.

That's the best way to do it.

Okay, so website, LinkedIn listeners, do me the favor, connect with Kevin.

And please do me the other favor and share this with every single person that you know who leads somebody.

And as a matter of fact, actually, that would be everybody, because whether you like it or not, everybody's a leader.

It's like, like everyone's a salesperson whether they like it or not.

But everybody's a leader.

So share it with people.

It's so important to hear this message.

So share and then make sure that you're subscribing to the podcast.

Kevin, thank you for being an amazing guest.

This is the Unstoppable Success podcast and I'm your host, Jacqueline Strominger.

And thank you listeners for being great listeners and supporting the show.