Hello and welcome to Book Lovers Companion, the podcast about

books, authors, aircraft, and more.

I'm your host, Edith Ants in this episode.

Joining me from Across the Pond is a returning guest fiction author, and

overall lovely lady Dakota Jackson.

Hello Dakota and welcome back to Book Lover's Companion.

Hello, Edith.

Thanks for having me again.

Absolutely.

It's an absolute pleasure to have you on the show again.

It's always a pleasure to have people coming back because they feel so comfy.

Absolutely.

I'm excited.

Oh, splendid.

And I said before I started recording, we need to talk about your new

book, which came out in May, 2025.

The construction of shadows and, uh, on the cover there is a big wand.

Does it mean there is more to come in this universe?

Yes, it does.

The book, the, it's projected to be a five book series.

Oh, okay.

But.

Now we have book one and I'm going to ask you to tell our listeners

a little bits about the story, the characters, what is it all about?

Absolutely.

So the construction of Shadows is the first in a five book series.

Um, it's akin to Percy Jackson or Manga, like my hero, academia,

even like the Grisha verse, like shadow and bone, um, or six of Crow.

It's about two best friends in a world, hundreds and

hundreds of years in our future.

After the 16 Divinities of the Sun and the Moon have.

Interfered, uh, and their interference has caused, uh, the countries and

the actual tectonic plates and everything to change so drastically

that it's a completely new world.

And so one of these best friends is the heir to one of the most powerful

divine lineages in this new world.

And the other is a quote unquote nobody.

Uh, but in this first book, they both have.

Some growing attacks around the country that seem to be

following the both of them.

Okay.

It in a away future from.

No, we are not going to talk politics.

Most not.

We, we leave it, we leave it to other people.

We're talking books here, but politics still does play a

certain part in your book as well.

How can it not?

I mean, it's about.

Fantasy is always about world building and it's always about adversaries and so on.

And may I ask the coach, where did the idea for this book

come from in your dedication?

You said you had the plot, the whole plot in your head, and you

told it to your brother-in-law and he more or less said, yeah, come

on, write it and let me read it.

Yeah.

Yeah, I've had the idea.

I've been toying around with it for quite a few years actually,

and I, I took a break, um, and that's when I wrote my first book.

So this one came first in idea, just not actual publication, but I wanted

to play around with the idea of, it's a very common trope to have the good

versus evil, or light versus dark.

And I wanted to make it tangible.

Um, so instead of light versus dark being.

Metaphoric, uh, I made it real so that one side of this society can

actually control darkness, and the other side of it can control the light.

Mm-hmm.

Well, usually we think of the darkness as the Bettys.

Because that's what we have learned.

That's how, oh, let's see.

Oh, your assistant.

Sorry, interrupt.

Oh, no, no.

Nothing to be sorry about.

My assistants are downstairs.

The listeners, they take care of the chup or visit the other way around.

Who knows?

Uh, so the badies in this book are the moon gift to children

then, shall we call it the.

That because we have the sun gifted children.

Is it, is it fair to call the other, the other part of

society the moon gift people?

Yes.

Yes.

It sure is.

Their society is pretty much controlled by the sun gifted.

Uh, they are in charge of the government and it's not really a democracy

in that, you know, they just pass down their titles in the government

to other people in their family.

Um, so it's, it's sort of the good versus bad in that.

What's on paper is, is the sun gifted as good and the Yeah.

You know, gifted as bad, but as with as, with any politics that

maybe that's not actually the truth.

Oh, yes, indeed.

There's more to it.

There's more gray than black and white isn't,

and your two main characters, because we have, like you said in your

introduction of the book, this nobody.

And we have the golden child.

Mm-hmm.

In every sense of the world.

World.

What, what?

What is it?

So it makes it interesting.

It makes an interesting plot to see.

Well, because the golden child, more or less are their best friends, sort of,

because I got the impression, yeah, they were best friends, but only so long as.

Our golden child wasn't meant to become the golden child.

I mean, the character knew about her fate, her destiny, and as long as we do

not act upon it, it's okay to, you know, socialize with the nobodies, but mm-hmm.

Then not so much anymore.

Yeah, I've always been interested in these like Golden Child

chosen one type characters.

Like Soray is where she's put on this pedestal and she really does embody

it in, in, uh, in the way she sees herself and interacts with other people.

So even though a lot of the things she does, she claims that she's doing them

because she, you know, cares about other people or because she thinks

it's her duty as that olden child.

Uh, a lot of it is.

Some internalized problems that she just isn't facing yet.

Um, so I tried to make her very complex in that sense, and she doesn't, she doesn't

quite get her development yet, but that's what the rest of the series is for.

Uh, and to unpack all of that responsibility and the

way that she takes it on.

Um, and in being that golden child doesn't have.

The golden child personality, uh, it kind of, it worked her in many ways.

Mm-hmm.

Was it hard to write in a way that she might not lose the sympathies

of the reader because like you said, the golden child and so on, you know,

it was very hard.

Yeah.

On my first.

Draft.

Many, many drafts ago I had, uh, some editors and beta readers,

sensitivity readers, and they were all like, oh, she's awful.

Like, there's not anything redeeming about this character at all.

So I kept having, having to go through and like scrape things away and more

dig into her why and put on paper why she was doing it or why she thought

it was the right idea, even if.

No one else agrees with it, um, to get that point across for

a reader so that hopefully in time she can get her redemption.

I know that not everyone's gonna like her anyway.

Um, and I actually really love an unlikable character,

but, uh, yeah, I tried.

Yeah, but I, I mean, heroes do not always have to be likable, do they?

Suppose that she's the hero of the story.

We don't know that yet because like you said, there are five books, four more to

come, so, but we also have this underdog.

We always root for the underdog, don't we?

Right.

Yeah.

That's what we do, isn't it?

I mean, of course we do.

Uh, and there is also this incredible or awful event.

Is still haunting the whole of society to the day 13 years ago.

Uh, can you elaborate a teeny tiny bit on that?

Because it, it, it shaped these characters as well.

Yeah, of course.

So, uh, that event is referred to as the lunar eclipse massacre in the book.

So it was, uh, a time 13 years ago when both of the main characters,

the girls were about three years old.

Um, and the way that history tells it is that, uh, the.

Most notorious moon lineage in the world, the Miko family, um,

those of the moon divinity herself.

Uh, they plotted this very elaborate, uh, scheme of sorts to gather a

bunch of, uh, sun descended people who were part of the government

in this one area of the country, alongside many of their own people

so that they could wipe them all out.

In one night, um, with the lunar eclipse, they're granted a little bit

of extra strength being from the moon.

So they took that opportunity to, uh, to spark a, a massacre that they hoped

would end in revolution, but ultimately just created a ton of tragedy and, and,

uh, sidelined all of the people in their family for the next couple decades.

And we also have the beginning of.

In the background, this threat of people of the moon divinity to causing

unrest, explosions here and there.

Uh, buildings get blown up and so on, and.

I suppose it does reflect on society, although it sets in, in, in the

future, because isn't it always easy?

No, maybe not always, but oftentimes easier to set

things that are very important.

Uh.

In contemporary times, things that trouble us in the future where we

can express concerns, where we can express other things easier than

if we put it in the here and now.

That's such an interesting question.

Yeah.

I didn't think much of it when I first started world building and decided I

wanted it hundreds of years in the future.

It was more of a logistical thing in terms of like.

The divinities interfered, and it was sort of like a dinosaurs extension mm-hmm.

Type thing where they had to start from scratch.

So of course.

Mm-hmm.

It was hundreds of years later.

But in writing, and of course there are reflections of our current world

in politics in the book itself, I think that's impossible to, to work around.

And, and as you, as you think of everything that's going on and you wanna

reflect it in, in ways that are, um.

And careful, uh, you start to think about it more and more and more.

Uh, yeah.

So it was interesting in that, you know, the way that these lineages

interact with each other does have some reflections of real life, uh,

especially in the, like this future world.

They don't have.

The countries or cultures or identities that we do right now.

Yeah.

They don't have like the separations in terms of gender identity or

sexuality or anything like that.

Those things are pretty much gone in that world.

But then they have all of these new issues that in many, many

ways reflect those same things.

Mm-hmm.

You spoke of the divinities and to play a major part in the book.

Um, can you describe to our listeners, um, what, what are they, what, what is it?

What makes the divinities Are those people?

Are those, um, I don't know, things people can achieve?

What, what are the divinities.

Great question.

So, uh, they are, they're akin to gods.

So there are 16 total.

There are eight under the sun and eight under the moon.

So they can appear on earth in like humanly skins per se, but that's not

exactly what they would look like in their natural form up on the sun

or the moon or wherever they are.

Um.

So the way I like to think of it is that they're, if you've ever read Percy

Jackson or anyone listening has read Percy Jackson in the way that those gods,

when they come down, they have to like shrink themselves into different bodies

or else they're way too bright and they'll like kill everyone with their power.

It's very similar in the sense that they have to, they have to shrink themselves

down so that they don't hurt anyone.

Um, but they mostly are just these kind of entities that are away

and people are looking up to and praying to, uh, even though they.

They do have proof that they exist.

Uh, they just don't spend time with them really

usually, uh, courts are rather unpleasant to be around.

They, they tend to be that too when they do show up.

Yeah.

God, gods know why.

I dunno why, uh, ma made me think of a podcast, uh, uh, most recently

heard about, um, the Gods of the North, about Asgard and Odin and

all, all the, all things because, well, on the one hand, you know.

They can be pleasant, they can interfere or not, they're

interested in knowledge and so on.

And only the day I heard about, uh, what, what Ragnar Rock meant and so on.

What's going on there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Just did, did that, um, feature in your preparation for the book,

reading up on those old myths about all the gods It did, yeah.

Uh, when I first started.

Coming up with this book years ago, I, I spent many, many hours, many days

in a row reading up on different gods under different religions and cultures.

Mm-hmm.

Um, and myths, uh, trying to get an idea of mostly what things,

there was like a through line with.

Mm-hmm.

So what powers or gods of tended to reappear in many places.

So things like gods of like hunting or, or gods of beauty, things

like that appeared quite a bit.

So those were things I kind of took and spun.

In another way to, to create these divinities because it is a reflection

of, uh, all of the years that brought that new world to what it's, mm-hmm.

Um, so there still needed some echoes, even if they were different.

Mm-hmm.

So in the end, Christianity wasn't able to kill off all the gold it seems like.

No.

Well, that's what I was thought, because.

We, we still talk about them, don't we?

All the time.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because they were interesting and thinking of it, of a, of a future where,

well, I'm not so keen on religion, but anyway, uh, talking or learning

about what people in the past thought, what, what this happening and why is

happening, I find it most fascinating.

The belief systems are most fascinating as they make for good stories, don't they?

Absolutely.

I'm not, I'm not really a religious person myself, so there's some

suspension of belief there.

Yeah.

Uh, which, you know, it helps when you're writing fantasy, so you're

just making all this stuff up anyway.

Yeah, exactly.

And I mean, you have been on the podcast before, but for those who haven't

listened to this episode, we, we spoke about your other book, but what, what's.

Drew you to fantasy in the first place.

What is it that fascinates you about fantasy?

Oh, that's a great question.

I, I've actually always been more inclined to, uh, speculative fiction and fantasy.

So my first book, which is just contemporary fiction, was actually

out of left field for me, which was weird as a first publication.

Uh, but I've always loved the escapism.

Aspect of fantasy.

Of course, with any good book you can, you can, you know, escape

into it and waste hours away.

But with fantasy in particular, that, that little bit of separation from, uh,

that little extra bit of separation, I should say, from reality, I've

always been very interested in, um, especially as a reflection of reality.

It can be a lot easier to consume those ideas about what's happening

in the real world when the.

The concepts are in a fantasy world where they're not directly affecting

you, so you don't really have to think about, uh, even if they're

the same, you know how awful it is.

It's still, there's that separation where it can be fun and you

can digest it at your own pace.

Yeah, absolutely agree.

Because then you, when you close the book, say, oh, thank goodness

that's not happening here.

Oh, wait a minute.

Uh, yeah.

Anyway, uh, well, that's what we, adults would think, oh, wait a minute.

Maybe it does.

Yeah.

But the age group, your book is for, I mean on Amazon it said 13 to 18.

Would you say that's accurate?

Yeah, I think thirteen's probably still a little on the young end,

but since there is some of the.

I think a lot of readers of the Percy Jackson series would find

similarities or likenesses in it.

And a lot of the readers are 13 or so, so probably.

But, uh, as the series goes on, it gets a little more, uh, violent, I guess.

Mm-hmm.

Is the right word.

Um, yeah.

So probably 14 and up is, is more accurate.

Mm. But would you like your audience to grow with your books?

Because that's what happened with Harry Potter, didn't it?

Yeah.

Yeah.

I love that idea.

I really do.

Especially because the characters, they're aging throughout.

Mm-hmm.

The book, they at 15 and 16, and by the end they're both 20 or 21.

So it'd be cool if, if the readers, uh, kind of grew up with the characters.

Yeah.

Well, I think, I think they will because we're not talking about

a 20 book series of a detective who is still 50, 20 years later.

So it, it doesn't make sense, doesn't it?

Especially when we talk about young adult fiction.

Mm-hmm.

It, it makes a lot of sense when, when you think of it, the characters grow up,

your readers grow up with your characters.

Right.

I love that idea.

And especially with like the content itself.

Mm-hmm.

You can start some different or slightly heavier things as, as they grow up because

there's that assumption that the readers

more philosophical.

Issues, more philosophical questions and ideas will come up,

I suppose, in the book as well.

Oh yeah, for sure.

There's definitely, there's a lot of added, uh, antagonists that

aren't necessarily tangible mm-hmm.

Uh, as the story used.

So a lot more things that you have to kind on and, and think about.

And when you started writing, when you had this idea for this book, uh, did

you, uh, plan it from the beginning as a, I dunno, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 part series?

Or did it just happen as it's often does?

Yeah, it was a little bit of both, weirdly enough.

Okay.

I always wanted it to be three or more books, ideally.

Five.

I don't know why.

It just felt like a good number.

I wanted it to be not a trilogy, but you know, more than that.

So I always wanted it to be five.

But when I first outlined, you know, the different conflicts and storylines, I,

I did have a trilogy at first, uh, and then as I wrote the first book and the

second book, I realized there was no.

No chance.

I was fitting in everything I wanted to in three books.

So it expanded to the fourth and the fifth from there.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It does happen.

I see.

It does happen.

It happens a lot.

Do you think it, that's something especially true for fantasy because

when you start this whole process of world building, there is so much to say.

There's so much to tell.

There's so much going on.

Yes, for sure.

I think it's, it's very easy with fantasy to, uh, to over build

and then one book isn't gonna cut it and maybe even two isn't.

So, uh, you know, as long as you have the, the, the story arcs and the

character developments to, uh, to actually continue with, uh, I think it's, it's

always worth adding another book or so.

Absolutely.

Because even in the first one, how did you keep track of.

All the details, because I always find it fascinating because, uh,

I didn't really plan my book so well, you know, major events, of

course, a a lot things just happened.

What happened?

But with a book like this, you can't just say, oh, it happened.

Right.

Yeah.

I actually have my, my outline document is about 150 pages in my Google Drive

that, um, it was where I had first put like the bullet point ideas.

Yeah.

When I first came up with the idea for the book series, and

then I just kept building it out.

So it has all of.

The very specific character details from like their appearance to what

they like, what they don't like, who they like, and who they don't like.

Uh, and then the chapter by chapter outlines little, like extra bits of

information where I put, you know, this is the name of this place.

This is what this person calls.

All of those very small things that.

Matter, um, but are very, very easy to forget.

So I just, every time I wondered or was editing, I would just go back to that

ridiculous document, do a search, and find what I was looking for within there so

that I didn't actually have to remember every little bit as I was writing.

And I mean, it might sound like a stupid question, but, uh, is it

easier to remember the characters and the characters names if they

are made up names like those?

Because when you have William and Harry.

You know?

Yeah, I actually think that's a great question.

I personally find it easier.

Um, I've been writing something new aside from this series recently, and

one of their character's names is James, and I keep forgetting his name.

Like every other page, I, I write something else and I'm like,

wait a minute, who is he again?

'cause when it's common, I just can't, I can't keep track of it.

But these, these different, more unique names are so much easier for me to, yeah.

Onto and I immediately relate that name to the character rather than, you know,

how many Jameses are, are out there in the world that I could connect to.

Yeah, exactly.

James, John and Harry both.

You know, what did I call him?

Uh, dunno.

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

I can understand that.

Absolutely.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

Um.

Uh, you said, or we said, when you described this book, we're talking

about the golden child and the underdog.

Your golden child was not that likable in the beginning.

Uh, you said, uh, she's hard to, like, she might be hard to, like,

some people don't even mm-hmm.

Like at all.

Maybe they will, because isn't that also an interesting challenge for a writer to

develop a character over such a series and show all the teeny, tiny looks and, and,

and looks and grannies and everything, and every detail of this character.

So he or she might become likable.

I mean, it doesn't have to, of course, let's not pretend it has

to be like that, but, uh, we know where this person is coming from.

We understand her motivations, his motivations.

We understand what is driving them.

We, we learn why they do what they do.

Isn't that the, an absolute fantastic challenge for an, for an alpha?

Yeah, for sure.

When I, when I. I conceptualized the two main characters.

I always wanted it to be.

A hero with a mean streak as I called Sariah, or a golden child, and a underdog,

underdog villain with a very kind heart, uh, which is our, you know, our underdog.

Yeah.

So I, I really liked that juxtaposition of the two main

characters, having those different backgrounds, but not exactly fitting.

I, the personalities that most people would associate, like most people

think the hero should be, you know, the happy, kind, outgoing one and the

villain or perceived villain should be, you know, the, the angry spiteful one,

but I swapped it with the two of them.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Uh, especially being a series so that I could give myself.

The room to Yeah.

Develop and, and grow those characters, especially side by side.

They're always going to be interconnected with each other, which is going to affect

the way that they grow and they develop.

Um, and I, as I said, I really like these so-called unlikeable characters.

Um, I love when I start reading something and the character is very

hard to understand or like at first, um, especially when there is the promise

of a series where they can get better.

Uh, yeah.

A lot of times as sad or unfair as it is, there are many male characters

that are just like Sariah, who are very unlikeable, very cruel, very

hard to understand, and then they do like one thing to supposedly redeem

themselves and everyone loves them again.

So, uh, I guess part of it is a test to see if, uh, if with a female character

that redemption works the same way.

Um, because I, I would sure like it to.

Interesting what you just said.

For the male characters that they are completely unlikable, then they do this

one good deed and everyone loves them.

I suppose it might be harder for female characters.

Yeah, I've, I've noticed just in being.

A part of different fandoms or, or reading groups that a lot of the time

those male characters, they get a, there, I mean they tend to be more common

male characters in mainstream Yeah.

Fiction.

Uh, so there's a lot more data to work off of there, but you know,

they tend to, people tend to find it more palpable for some reason.

Mm-hmm.

Um, when they are complex or unlikeable and have those redemption arcs than

when it's women or female characters.

Um, so that was part of the reason why I chose to make both of my main characters.

Women anyway.

Mm-hmm.

To put more of them out in the world and to let them be complex.

Yes.

Ab absolutely agree

from, from my end.

Why do you think is that, what is it that we still want women

to do more, even other women?

I don't like, it's, I don't know, it like, kind of drives me a little bit crazy,

uh, because I don't really understand it.

It seems like just another added hurdle or, or barrier

that doesn't need to be there.

Um, so just trying to, to normalize it in any way that like, you know,

no matter what your gender is, you're allowed to be complicated or unlikable

or have redemption or maybe not.

Um.

'cause the most interesting thing, especially with fiction is, is the

character arc and development, not necessarily to it's a, a woman or a man.

Hmm.

Do you think we are too hard on each other?

Meaning women on other women?

Because, you know, I often feel that the guys Yeah, they just

slap each other on the page.

Say, yeah, well come on.

I do.

Yeah.

I think there, it's hard when there's that.

You're, you're already fighting for so many things as, as a woman in society.

Um, so there's kind of like that ingrained bit of competition.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which it's kind of like built into us, and yet you have to fight each other still.

It's sad.

Yeah.

But it's, it's kind of, it's just there.

Yeah, unfortunately it is.

We still are hard on each other, especially we are sometimes

even shallow, aren't we?

When we talk about each other, because that's something you can observe.

Everyday life since we've spoken about politics.

Well, I'm not going there anyway, but that's what other women

still do about women in politics.

I mean, have I still remember this, this time when you, you know that

Germany had a female chancellor for a very long time and it, it was

always about what she was wearing.

I mean, I wasn't a huge fan of her, but

why are we talking about what the woman is wearing or what,

how, how she styles her hair.

I mean, would you just for once, listen to what she's

saying, if you can agree or not.

What I mean, come on.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's like ridiculous, unnecessary double standards.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Do you think that, um, fantasy.

Or even science fiction, because they are, I would say they're

closely related to each other.

Mm-hmm.

In a certain kind of way that they might help, especially for

young adults to broaden their horizon, broaden their perspective.

Definitely.

I, I think they, it's always held.

Possibility and the capability of doing that.

Um, and I have hope in recent years that it's getting better

and better on that scale.

Um, especially with moves from, uh, publishers and in indie authors to mm-hmm.

Diversify.

Um, not only the characters in their books, but, um, the inspirations and

the cultures within those stories.

Um, and not only.

In terms of, you know, race, but in terms of gender identity and sexuality and

religion and all of these things that make people unique, that if you were to

go and pick up a mainstream book off, you know, a shelf in Barnes and Noble 10 years

ago, you probably weren't even seeing a side character with any of these traits.

Mm-hmm.

Um, I, I'm, I'm hopeful, uh, and I think that fantasy is a good place to start,

um, especially with the younger audiences.

Um.

Because it's not, it's not so much that you're trying to force it on

anyone, um, or you know that it's hard for them to grasp or understand.

It's just made natural in those worlds.

So then it can be made natural for.

Now I'm going to play the devil's advocate and asking you and asking you a question.

I, I mean, I agree because you can put a lot of things in a

fantasy world, like in sci-fi.

Um,

might it be, or can it happen?

I'm not saying it does, but might it happen that in all the things,

okay, I have to tick boxes.

Is there the danger of authors thinking, oh, I have to tick all

the boxes no matter what, even if it makes no sense or it's mm-hmm.

Why, uh, just for the success.

Yeah.

I think that's always, that's always a danger.

Um, especially with like, just using the sort of click baby term of.

Diverse.

Um, because a lot of people when they see that this is what agents want or what

publishers or readers want, they think that they have to check all of those

boxes, um, so that someone will care.

Um, but it's, it's less about checking boxes and more about, um,

just reflecting a natural reality.

That's sort of the way I like to look at it.

Um.

You know, even if you just look around at the people who are in your life or who you

work with, they don't all look the same.

They don't all come from the same place, believe in the same things.

Um, and it's not that, you know, you're, you're checking, you know, this one,

this one is gay, this one is disabled.

Like, all of these different check little, right?

It's not like you're checking the boxes.

It's just these things are.

They fall into place naturally.

So of course that's always a concern.

Um, I think it's, it's getting better, hopefully.

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Um, but with a lot of these, um, you know, there are new ways in

which to catch these things, um, to work with sensitivity readers and,

and edits of diverse backgrounds.

That was something I was very adamant about myself.

I had a round of sensitivity readers, beta readers, um, editors of all

different backgrounds, so that I had.

Someone other than myself, um, going through and making sure that none of these

characters who are not exactly like me weren't, um, weren't portrayed in a way

that was unnatural or cruel or, um, you know, just otherwise offensive in any way.

Yeah, I mean, especially if it takes place here on Earth.

Well, just saying again, if you write sci, I mean, who knows?

Being on Alpha Look, right?

I mean, not everyone looks like ldo.

Mul.

Just a shout out to Babylon.

Five fans here.

Who knows.

Yeah.

It can be a little bit of a blurry line sometimes with sci-fi and fantasy.

Yeah.

It's just a matter of, I'm sure you don't fall into the, uh,

harmful stereotypes along the way.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

And being, or being in this community and trying to stay in

the, how hard is it these days?

Being an indie author in this being, being an indie author in the fantasy

genre, is it, has it become easier over the years, would you say?

Or is it still a struggle?

Oh, that's a tough question.

I think in comparison to my first book, which was contemporary, uh,

fiction, it's, it's slightly easier.

To be in fantasy, um mm-hmm.

Just because it's a larger market, um, more people are looking for it.

There are more mm-hmm.

Comparative books and readers within what this series is, rather than my first one.

So that aspect of marketing, I guess, is easier.

Um, but in terms of, you know, still getting it in front of a lot of people

or, um, in terms of getting the proper.

Feedback, uh, that can still be difficult because you are limited in

a lot of the things that you can do.

Uh, you don't have, you know, this major, giant publisher behind you and

as much of a team behind you to, to check, um, even, you know, what we

were just talking about, even to check with sensitivity reads and things that

sort, you have to take a lot of extra steps and that can be very difficult

and time consuming and expensive.

Um, so it, there are a lot of hurdles still to being an indie author, but, uh.

I love the community of indie authors.

It's, it's very close and tight knit and, and mm-hmm.

Even when there are those struggles, um, I know about a dozen people on

every single social media app that I could reach out to, even if we haven't

talked, uh, one-on-one a single time, I could reach out to, and they, they

would be willing to offer their help.

Mm. I think it's not, it's not just a fantasy office.

It's, it's something I hear.

All the time, especially in the indie, in the indie world of the

office, it's very supportive.

The community's very supportive of each other and whenever, wherever they can,

unlike, would you say unlike, supposedly, you probably don't know, but a guessing

game in traditional publishing, it's, it's more, maybe more backstepping, I dunno.

Yeah, I mean.

It's hard when, you know, I haven't been a part of the traditional

publishing group of authors, but, uh, just, you know, judging off of what

I can, which I guess is only social media, which can only tell you Soma.

Yeah.

Uh, it seems as if the indie community is a bit.

Closer.

Um, some of that might just be in opportunity, like indie

events and things of that sort.

It's easier for us to just connect with each other than it is for them

who have teams and pr people who are doing a lot of that for them

in, in the traditional market,

except for crime fiction office as far as like, maybe they get all,

all, all, get it all out on paper and then, you know, get it all.

Yep.

Just murder someone else.

Next book, boom.

Done.

Done.

Yes.

That's, that's it.

Yeah, absolutely.

And as in as you said, uh, it's, it's hard work.

You have to put on your marketing hat.

You have to put on this hat and that hat.

Uh, there's always the question of editing.

You said you had a, had help.

Help is necessary to.

I mean, deliver a, a product which you can be proud of.

Right.

Which you love.

And if you love it, then the audience will love it.

So this whole process of editing, where would you say with this

book was your greatest challenge?

Oh, great question.

I, I did, um, like five rounds of editing myself before I had.

My small publisher had editing through them as well.

So there was a lot of editing that, that this book went through.

And uh, that very first round, developmental content style editing was

what gave me the most trouble overall because that was where I got those,

um, overarching comments about, Hey, maybe Sariah's not that likable and

you should add more of her motivation.

So even if she's unlikable.

We can pinpoint, oh, this is why, and this is why she does what she does.

Which, you know, I knew as the author, but it wasn't translated quite onto Paige.

So I had to go back and, and pick apart her entire, uh, character

arc in that first book so that it translated a lot better.

Um, and even just like silly things of, hey, there is a.

Headmaster, a principal of this school who he's mentioned like two times, and

then you forgot about him, what happened?

So you have to go back and figure out, you know, why did

I drop that character if I did?

Is he still necessary things of that sort.

Um, just that.

Mm-hmm.

Of the book and making sure everything was still important

and being developed as it should.

That gave me quite a bit of trouble in, in the editing department.

Well, can't imagine.

How long did it take?

I wrote this book in, um, about five months, and then editing was probably

about the same, five or six months.

Um, it, it took.

A full month for me to incorporate the developmental edits, so to rework

character arc to make sure that there were no plot holes, that that took a full month

of some pretty full serious hours of work.

Yeah.

Well, I can imagine.

And this beautiful cover tell, tell us about the cover.

Wow.

It looks so fantastic.

Thank you.

Yeah, I was blown away when they showed me that cover.

So, uh, with the small publisher that I have this series through, uh, dream Sphere

books, so they have a team of designers and they send you like a cover form where

you can just say the general things that you're looking for, like if you have a

color palette, um, other book covers that.

Are comparable and that you like.

So I, I was very, very thorough with this, uh, with this form, uh, because

I sort of had a picture in my head.

I wanted all of these different elements.

I wanted the little birds because that's a symbol in the book.

I wanted, uh, stars and maybe a moon, maybe a sun, because those are all symbols

in the book and the school buildings.

I had a bunch of ideas that when you jot them down on paper, you're

gonna look at that and go, there's no way I'm fitting this all.

On one cover.

Uh, but they had an amazing designer who, uh, took everything that I had

in mind, including a little reference.

I had a reference cover that had the general, like the circle that's

on the cover now with the moons.

It had that, I just wasn't sure how to make it into a actual cover design.

So I sent it their way.

And then, uh, on the very first mockup, um, they sent me back the

cover that, that is our final.

This looks fantastic.

And I have seen, I have seen pictures of you on social.

I think they also did the, the pages, did they not, I mean, when, when

the book is closed, it's not, also, aren't also the, the, the pages.

Uh oh yeah.

The, uh, I actually DIYed that myself.

Uh, so I watched a bunch of YouTube videos about how to like paint.

The pages, the, the edges of your books.

Okay.

And then, uh, I went over to my sister's house.

We used a ton of spray paint and tarps and things.

I, I put some moon designs on the spines of a couple of covers.

Okay.

Yeah, because it also looks, looked great.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Yeah.

Fantastic.

Uh, Takota, you have mentioned a lot of things, but still, may I ask, what

would be your advice for other offers?

There's a ton that I could give honestly.

Uh.

Probably anywhere else.

Um, so it might sound repetitive, but just read a lot.

That is what has helped me probably the most as an author, is reading a

lot, not only in the genre that I write or want to write, but outside of it.

Uh, especially if you're feeling stuck.

Um, you know, if you're in a writer's block and you just really can't get

past it, you don't have the ideas, go try out a completely different genre.

Uh, me, I am not a fan of nonfiction, but when I'm stuck, I'll go and read

a memoir because it's as nonfiction as I can, as I can take, and it

still gets me out of that, that, uh, writer's block in being in my head.

So, read a lot outside of your genre, within your genre,

everything you can, and, um, always.

You know, when you're writing take breaks as you need them.

Uh, let things sit in stew for a while and then return to them.

Try not to, uh, get too wrapped up in editing while you are writing, or else

you'll never get the darn thing done.

Find a writing community.

For sure.

Yeah.

I can't believe I, I didn't say that.

Yeah.

It's so, it's, it's so easy these days to find, you know, writer friends online.

Uh, in building my TikTok account, I have found so many people

who have, who have become, you know, so dear and helpful to me.

And not only in, you know, they can give me advice, I can give them advice, but

just being each other's hype person.

You know, when you're feeling down and you need someone.

Who's, who's there and letting you know that like they've, they've been

there or that they're excited for you.

Just like that one simple comment can turn your entire day around.

So definitely find your community, find your people, and, uh, don't hesitate

to, to, you know, be there for them as you want them to be there for you.

Mm. Yeah.

And let's suppose Netflix or Amazon, apple tv.

Is looking for new material as they should and not just re re reheat the same stuff.

Yeah, over and over again.

So who is going play your main characters?

This is a great question.

I've thought about it before and, and the problem that I have is that

every time I picture any of these characters or the world or their

powers, I don't picture real people.

I picture like animated characters.

Ah.

Uh, so I always picture more of like a animated cartoon style

for some reason I, mm-hmm.

I think it's because their traits are so unique.

Like they have red eyes, they have pink hair, things of that sort.

So my.

My weird, logical brain can't put that to real people.

So I always picture, uh, something animated instead.

Hmm.

Also an interesting take on, on a story, because you probably know about this,

this animated, uh, series, this, uh, star Trek below deck, I think it's called,

where you have animated characters.

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Why not?

I'm a big fan of anime and cartoons and things of that sort.

It translates well for me.

Mm-hmm.

And have, I mean, might be a stupid question, but have it doubled

a little bit in screenwriting

actually that might, might interest you.

Yeah.

I've always been very intrigued by it and I've always wanted to, but I act,

actually haven't tried my hand at it yet.

So, uh, I guess that's something I should, uh, put on the to-do list because I'd,

I'd really, I really love the idea of it.

Mm, mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Go fund me here.

You have it true.

Give it a try.

Because looking for some new ideas and new material to turn into shows.

Why not?

Exactly.

I mean,

asking for plans of.

The next, what are the next steps?

What can we expect Is your readers, what's coming our way?

Yeah, I've got a lot of things in the works and on the way.

Um, first and foremost, we are working on an audio book for the

Construction of Shadows book one.

Um, so my friend Jay is currently in the studio recording, so I hope to have that

out in a few months and I'll do some, uh, some promo and some giveaways on

the audio book in, in the near future.

Uh, and that will lead us right up to the release of the next books in the series.

Uh, I don't have any of.

Official dates yet.

Um, but by the way, we are tracking, we should have book two and

book three out sometime in 2026.

Mm-hmm.

Interesting.

And do you already know about the cover as well and the title?

Of course, because it's always interesting.

Someone said only recently they write the title before they write the whole book.

Yes.

Which is mind blowing because Yep.

I, I actually always try to do the title first or else I'll never get it.

So I did do that with all five of these.

This, the second book is called Curse of Alta Barron.

Hmm.

Okay.

Yes.

And, and to cover, you also have the idea for the, for the second

cover in your head, or is it already, does it already exist?

It doesn't exist yet.

Um, okay.

I have very vague ideas.

I'm actually going to be leaning a lot more on the designer this time around.

Um, it'll of course tie into the first one.

Mm-hmm.

I'm hoping it has a similar sort of, um, mm-hmm.

Construction to it, but a different, uh, color scheme and some other little Easter

egg hints of what might be within the book or, or what's to come in the next.

Mm. Interesting.

Interesting.

And I do hope your audience grows with you because what better way, we, we

mentioned it before, what better way?

Yeah.

You know, your fan, boys and girls.

That would be nice.

Yeah.

Wouldn't it?

I mean, absolutely.

Uh, Dakota, is there anything else you would like our listeners to know?

I don't think so.

Just, you know, stay tuned for the audio book and for book two

both should be out in early 2026.

Yeah.

And, uh, look out for, no, you just said look out for it and get

on the ride with the Cota Jackson and the construction of Shadows.

Absolutely.

Takota.

It was absolutely lovely talking to you.

Thank you so much for joining me.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for having me.

Absolutely.

Please wait for me in the green room.

I will be with you shortly.

Absolutely.

Thank you.

Dear listeners, I do hope you enjoyed this episode as much as my guest and I did.

Please don't forget to like and subscribe and I do hope you will

tune in for another episode.

Until next time.