1 00:00:02,198 --> 00:00:06,365 Hello and welcome to Crowd Church. I was expecting much more of an introduction 2 00:00:06,365 --> 00:00:10,533 then, but here we are. I'm Sharon, and I'm joined today by two absolute 3 00:00:10,533 --> 00:00:14,699 legends, as my husband would say. I've got Dave. 4 00:00:15,190 --> 00:00:16,539 Great to be here. 5 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:22,358 Yeah, I always love speaking to Dave. He's always got fabulous stories about 6 00:00:22,358 --> 00:00:27,435 what God is doing. In him, through him, through the people that he meets. Um, 7 00:00:27,435 --> 00:00:32,514 and I'm also joined by Mark Buchannan. Hi, Mark. Oh, I can't hear him. He's 8 00:00:32,514 --> 00:00:37,591 disappeared. Hopefully you can see him. Mark's joining us from Yorkshire, and he 9 00:00:37,591 --> 00:00:42,670 will be speaking to us today. We're in a series which is Jesus the 10 00:00:42,670 --> 00:00:47,749 Revolutionary. I would have got Dave to say it for you, but apparently he— I 11 00:00:47,749 --> 00:00:52,826 can't. He struggles with the word revolutionary. So, yeah, so we've been in 12 00:00:52,826 --> 00:00:57,905 this series for the last few weeks, and Mark's going to be continuing in that 13 00:00:57,905 --> 00:01:02,983 series. So as usual, join in the comments. We love to hear from you. Say hi, 14 00:01:02,983 --> 00:01:08,061 be part of the community. For those of you who are new and don't know what, what 15 00:01:08,061 --> 00:01:13,140 all this is about, so basically we're a church. in a moment, Mark is going 16 00:01:13,140 --> 00:01:18,218 to bring the talk, and then after that, we have what we call Conversation 17 00:01:18,218 --> 00:01:23,296 Street. Where me and Dave and also Mark will just— and you, if you, you can join 18 00:01:23,296 --> 00:01:28,375 in online, we'll talk about the talk and pick up any of your questions and 19 00:01:28,375 --> 00:01:33,453 just what really stood out to us. And our prayer today is really that for 20 00:01:33,453 --> 00:01:38,531 everyone watching, that you will hear the heart of God, that his Spirit would 21 00:01:38,531 --> 00:01:43,608 speak to you. So I think— do we have— have we got Mark? 22 00:01:44,989 --> 00:01:45,840 Yeah, I think you have. 23 00:01:46,200 --> 00:01:49,614 Yeah, lovely. Yay! Okay, great. So I'm gonna hand over to Mark. yeah, here 24 00:01:49,614 --> 00:01:53,030 we go. 25 00:01:53,810 --> 00:01:59,007 Well, thank you, and it's, great to be with you again. I think this might be 26 00:01:59,007 --> 00:02:04,205 my fourth time at Crowd Church, so, it's really nice to be back. And this is 27 00:02:04,205 --> 00:02:09,401 a brilliant passage that, you've given me to talk on. So this is a story 28 00:02:09,401 --> 00:02:14,599 that comes in Matthew, Mark, and Luke, but I'm going to take the version in 29 00:02:14,599 --> 00:02:19,798 Mark. There, some of the accounts are incredibly short about this story, but 30 00:02:19,798 --> 00:02:24,995 Mark gives us the most detail, and as we know, as a biblical principle, 31 00:02:24,995 --> 00:02:30,193 anything said by a Mark is, of great weight and authority, isn't it? so 32 00:02:30,193 --> 00:02:35,390 let me just read through this story, and I just want to make a couple of 33 00:02:35,390 --> 00:02:40,587 comments. But when I was thinking of a title, I was thinking, Bumping 34 00:02:40,587 --> 00:02:45,786 Into Jesus Is Not Enough. And this is particularly, a story for the 35 00:02:45,786 --> 00:02:50,984 desperate. We're going to hear about a desperate woman who, in a moment of Faith 36 00:02:50,984 --> 00:02:56,181 and Revelation encounters Jesus in a way that literally changes her entire life. 37 00:02:56,181 --> 00:03:01,378 So I don't know how life is going for you if you're listening to this talk, 38 00:03:01,378 --> 00:03:06,575 whether you're live or, or later, but I've had a few desperate phases in the 39 00:03:06,575 --> 00:03:11,774 last couple of years, and I've been a Christian a very, very long time, but 40 00:03:11,774 --> 00:03:16,972 in some ways it's a big so what. It's not enough to be a Christian. It's not 41 00:03:16,972 --> 00:03:22,169 enough to have been a Christian for ages. It's not even enough to be in the same 42 00:03:22,169 --> 00:03:27,366 room as Jesus. And that's why I'm saying just bumping into Jesus isn't going to 43 00:03:27,366 --> 00:03:32,564 cut it necessarily. But when we read this story, we're going to find out a woman 44 00:03:32,564 --> 00:03:37,762 who— I think the Holy Spirit just drops it into her, but she knows what to do. 45 00:03:37,762 --> 00:03:42,960 And when she does, unbelievable power is unlocked. And that's what we want, 46 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:48,157 isn't it? We don't want to walk this life on our own. So Jesus is just back from 47 00:03:48,157 --> 00:03:53,354 ministering on the other side of the Sea of Galilee. He's cast multiple demons 48 00:03:53,354 --> 00:03:58,552 out of a man who was so demonized that he was terrorizing the area. Huge 49 00:03:58,552 --> 00:04:03,750 supernatural encounter, comes back over the next morning, bumps into one of the 50 00:04:03,750 --> 00:04:08,948 leaders of the synagogue called Jairus, whose daughter is dying, who begs Jesus 51 00:04:08,948 --> 00:04:14,146 to come and heal her. Jesus agrees, and off he goes, ostensibly to be helping 52 00:04:14,146 --> 00:04:19,343 Jairus. And it goes in verse 25, it says, a large crowd followed and pressed 53 00:04:19,343 --> 00:04:24,540 around him. So Jesus is literally surrounded by people. They're all interested 54 00:04:24,540 --> 00:04:29,738 to see what will this teacher do, what's going to happen next. So this is a, a 55 00:04:29,738 --> 00:04:34,935 big crowd, and in the crowd there's a woman who we find out in verse 26 says, 56 00:04:34,935 --> 00:04:40,134 and a woman was there who'd been subject to bleeding for 12 years. She'd 57 00:04:40,134 --> 00:04:45,331 suffered a great deal under the care of many doctors and had spent all she had, 58 00:04:45,331 --> 00:04:50,528 yet instead of getting better She grew worse. So here's a woman with continuous 59 00:04:50,528 --> 00:04:55,726 bleeding. It's a hemorrhagic complaint of some sort. So that's a— I've never had 60 00:04:55,726 --> 00:05:00,923 one, but that sounds like an awful thing to have. But she's also a woman which 61 00:05:00,923 --> 00:05:06,122 the Old Testament declares she's unclean if she's bleeding. So even monthly 62 00:05:06,122 --> 00:05:11,319 bleeding would put her unclean for days, but if you've got continuous bleeding 63 00:05:11,319 --> 00:05:16,516 then you were unclean, anybody you touched were unclean, even if you sat down on 64 00:05:16,516 --> 00:05:21,714 a bench or a stone, that bench or the stone would become unclean. So imagine 65 00:05:21,714 --> 00:05:26,913 that you've got a physical problem that's causing you tremendous pain, it's 66 00:05:26,913 --> 00:05:32,110 burned up all the money that you've ever had, nothing has helped, but you're a 67 00:05:32,110 --> 00:05:37,307 social outcast and you're ritually unclean. And as you would understand it, That 68 00:05:37,307 --> 00:05:42,505 means you getting into the presence of God or having anything to do with God is 69 00:05:42,505 --> 00:05:47,702 a problem. So you've got social stigma as well, and shame, rejection. So she's 70 00:05:47,702 --> 00:05:52,901 carrying a huge amount on her shoulders, as if it wasn't bad enough that she was 71 00:05:52,901 --> 00:05:58,098 ill in the way that she was. And it says there that when she heard about Jesus, 72 00:05:58,098 --> 00:06:03,295 she joined the crowd. Now technically, she shouldn't have done that. That's 73 00:06:03,295 --> 00:06:08,494 against Jewish ritual law. She should have had nothing to do with anybody in 74 00:06:08,494 --> 00:06:13,690 that crowd, and anybody who spotted her would be able to point her out to the 75 00:06:13,690 --> 00:06:18,889 temple authorities or the synagogue leaders, and she would have been forced out 76 00:06:18,889 --> 00:06:24,086 and sent outside the town until she was clean. So she's taking a big risk, but 77 00:06:24,086 --> 00:06:29,283 she's desperate. What's she gonna do? You know, and sometimes depends on our 78 00:06:29,283 --> 00:06:34,482 character a bit, doesn't it? But I tend to go in on myself when I'm under real 79 00:06:34,482 --> 00:06:39,680 pressure, or as my wife sometimes says, I tend to sulk. So I, I think it's more 80 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:44,877 complicated than just sulking, but still, I'm an introvert and I go in on 81 00:06:44,877 --> 00:06:50,074 myself, but that's not helpful. We have to do our part, don't we? We've got to 82 00:06:50,074 --> 00:06:55,271 reach out. So this woman, it says she comes up behind Jesus, and then in verse 83 00:06:55,271 --> 00:07:00,470 28 it says, because she thought to herself 'If I just touch his clothes, I will 84 00:07:00,470 --> 00:07:05,668 be healed.' So there's no Jewish tradition that would have told her that was the 85 00:07:05,668 --> 00:07:10,865 right thing to do. There would have been no scripture that she knew that told 86 00:07:10,865 --> 00:07:16,062 her that's the right thing to do. So that thought has probably just dropped into 87 00:07:16,062 --> 00:07:21,261 her head. Or was it the Holy Spirit? So she somehow knows that Jesus is the 88 00:07:21,261 --> 00:07:26,458 person who can help her, and she's heard the stories. She knows that he's been 89 00:07:26,458 --> 00:07:31,656 healing in the region, maybe even the news about what's just happened on the 90 00:07:31,656 --> 00:07:36,853 other side of the lake has already got to the town. But she knows Jesus is the 91 00:07:36,853 --> 00:07:42,050 right person, but she also knows, I've got to do something, so what shall I do? 92 00:07:42,050 --> 00:07:47,249 And it says she came up from behind. So there's people all around Jesus, bumping 93 00:07:47,249 --> 00:07:52,446 into him, jostling him, and she, because she knows it's important not to be seen 94 00:07:52,446 --> 00:07:57,644 for as long as possible, basically sneaks up behind Jesus. And he touches— she 95 00:07:57,644 --> 00:08:02,841 touches him. And it says in verse 29, immediately her blood bleeding stopped, 96 00:08:02,841 --> 00:08:08,038 and she felt in her body that she was free from her suffering. She felt in her 97 00:08:08,038 --> 00:08:13,237 body. So just touching Jesus healed her, and so it healed her so spectacularly 98 00:08:13,237 --> 00:08:18,435 that she knew she'd been healed. Now here's the thing that intrigues me about 99 00:08:18,435 --> 00:08:23,632 this, passage, and this is why I gave it the title I did. But hundreds of 100 00:08:23,632 --> 00:08:28,830 people, or dozens of people, people minimum would have touched Jesus. They were 101 00:08:28,830 --> 00:08:34,028 literally banging into him. But as far as we know, on this particular occasion, 102 00:08:34,028 --> 00:08:39,225 in this crowd, the only person who has a supernatural encounter with Jesus is 103 00:08:39,225 --> 00:08:44,423 this woman. So something about her coming up to Jesus, albeit from behind, where 104 00:08:44,423 --> 00:08:49,620 she thinks she can do it in secret— and I'm sure she wasn't expecting to have 105 00:08:49,620 --> 00:08:54,817 any kind of conversation with him— but she touches his garment and she's healed. 106 00:08:54,817 --> 00:09:00,015 Now it literally says she touched the tassels of his shawl. So in the Old 107 00:09:00,015 --> 00:09:05,212 Testament, and actually if you ever go to Israel and you see the Hasidim, the 108 00:09:05,212 --> 00:09:10,410 Hasidic Jews, they still wear the prayer shawl. It's got blue threads woven in 109 00:09:10,410 --> 00:09:15,609 to the tassels on the corner. Those tassels are called tzitzit. And they are 110 00:09:15,609 --> 00:09:20,806 there from the book of Numbers as a reminder of God's law and God's covenant 111 00:09:20,806 --> 00:09:26,004 with his people. That's what she touches, right on the corner of his cloak, his 112 00:09:26,004 --> 00:09:31,201 shawl. Now the corner, it's the Hebrew word is kanaf, and it literally is the 113 00:09:31,201 --> 00:09:36,399 same word that can be translated wings. And as preparing for this, it solved a 114 00:09:36,399 --> 00:09:41,596 mystery that I've had since I was a very, very small boy. Growing up in 115 00:09:41,596 --> 00:09:46,794 Liverpool, going to Jubilee Chapel where my dad was the pastor, and we'd be 116 00:09:46,794 --> 00:09:51,991 singing hymns and songs. And I was doing that from the age of, I don't know, 2 117 00:09:51,991 --> 00:09:57,190 or something. And the number of times I've sat there and sung the song Trust and 118 00:09:57,190 --> 00:10:02,386 Obey, 'cause there's snow all the way, and thinking, I don't get this at all, 119 00:10:02,386 --> 00:10:07,585 you know, I don't understand why this is in this song. It was years later they 120 00:10:07,585 --> 00:10:12,783 said, no, no, it's 'cause there's no other way. So the other one that used to 121 00:10:12,783 --> 00:10:17,980 trouble me though was in Hark! The Herald Angels Sing, one of my favourite 122 00:10:17,980 --> 00:10:23,177 Christmas carols. It says, talking about Jesus born to give them second 123 00:10:23,177 --> 00:10:28,375 birth, risen with healing in his wings. And again, I remember as a small boy 124 00:10:28,375 --> 00:10:33,572 thinking, but I didn't know Jesus had wings. But it turns out that that's 125 00:10:33,572 --> 00:10:38,770 actually referring to a messianic prophecy in Malachi chapter 4, verse 2, that 126 00:10:38,770 --> 00:10:43,969 says 'But for you who fear my name, the Son of Righteousness will rise with 127 00:10:43,969 --> 00:10:49,166 healing in his wings.' And that was seen as a foretelling of the Messiah, that 128 00:10:49,166 --> 00:10:54,364 he would rise with healing in the corner of his robes. So it looks pretty clear 129 00:10:54,364 --> 00:10:59,561 that this woman, she had a bit of an understanding of the Hebrew Bible. She'd 130 00:10:59,561 --> 00:11:04,759 obviously come to the conclusion that Jesus was actually the Messiah And if he 131 00:11:04,759 --> 00:11:09,956 is the Messiah, there's healing in his wings, in the tassels on the corner of 132 00:11:09,956 --> 00:11:15,153 his cloak. And she reaches out and she's immediately transformed and healed, and 133 00:11:15,153 --> 00:11:20,351 she knows that the problem is solved. What's really interesting though is Jesus— 134 00:11:20,351 --> 00:11:25,549 this is verse 30— at once Jesus realised that power had gone out from him. He 135 00:11:25,549 --> 00:11:30,746 turned round in the crowd and asked, 'Who touched my clothes?' And the disciples 136 00:11:30,746 --> 00:11:35,945 say, 'But Jesus, people are crowding against you, and yet you're asking, who 137 00:11:35,945 --> 00:11:41,143 touched me?' In other words, they're saying, you're never gonna know. But Jesus 138 00:11:41,143 --> 00:11:46,340 kept looking around to see who'd done it, and then the woman, knowing what had 139 00:11:46,340 --> 00:11:51,538 happened to her, came and fell at his feet, trembling with fear, and told him 140 00:11:51,538 --> 00:11:56,735 the whole truth. So she confesses that, I'm sorry, so sorry, I know I shouldn't 141 00:11:56,735 --> 00:12:01,932 have done it, I know I'm ritually unclean, I know I've probably ruined 142 00:12:01,932 --> 00:12:07,130 everything for you, but I just knew you're the Messiah, you can heal me, and I 143 00:12:07,130 --> 00:12:12,327 have to do something about it. Now, later on in the Bible, we know that faith 144 00:12:12,327 --> 00:12:17,525 without works is dead, it says in James chapter 2. And we see it with 145 00:12:17,525 --> 00:12:22,724 Bartimaeus, the blind man, in Mark chapter 10, where Jesus goes up to a man 146 00:12:22,724 --> 00:12:27,921 who's totally blind, obviously blind, and says, 'What would you like me to do 147 00:12:27,921 --> 00:12:33,119 for you?' And you think, 'But that's kind of crass, isn't it? Of course, 148 00:12:33,119 --> 00:12:38,317 everybody knows he needs to be made to see.' But he wants to hear Bartimaeus 149 00:12:38,317 --> 00:12:43,514 say, 'I want to see.' And in the same way, this woman is expressing her faith. 150 00:12:43,514 --> 00:12:48,711 She's not just bumping into Jesus, she's deliberately reaching out to touch 151 00:12:48,711 --> 00:12:53,908 Jesus in faith, believing that he is the answer to her need, and she's healed. 152 00:12:53,908 --> 00:12:59,106 And then to top it all, when Jesus realizes that it's her, in verse 34, he says 153 00:12:59,106 --> 00:13:04,304 to her, "Daughter." It's the only woman that Jesus ever refers to as "daughter." 154 00:13:04,304 --> 00:13:09,501 So Jesus takes the father role towards her, not a brother role that you would 155 00:13:09,501 --> 00:13:14,700 normally do with somebody who was a woman that you weren't married to. You would 156 00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:19,898 treat her like your sister, but he treats her like his daughter. He's showing 157 00:13:19,898 --> 00:13:25,095 her special affection and favour, and he says, 'Your faith has healed you. Go in 158 00:13:25,095 --> 00:13:30,293 peace and be freed from your suffering.' Now, 'Go in peace and be freed from 159 00:13:30,293 --> 00:13:35,490 your suffering' literally says, 'Come into my peace.' and be permanently 160 00:13:35,490 --> 00:13:40,687 released from your scourging, is the language that it uses there. So Jesus is 161 00:13:40,687 --> 00:13:45,885 doing a number of things. He's saying, you don't have to apologize for reaching 162 00:13:45,885 --> 00:13:51,082 out and touching me. That was perfectly okay. I'm actually glad that you did 163 00:13:51,082 --> 00:13:56,280 that, and I'm showing you the most affection and favour that I can to a woman to 164 00:13:56,280 --> 00:14:01,479 whom I'm not married. And I'm saying, enter into my peace So this is not just an 165 00:14:01,479 --> 00:14:06,676 instantaneous healing. He's saying, from now on, you're going to live in my 166 00:14:06,676 --> 00:14:11,874 shalom, my peace, and be permanently freed from your scourging. So this is not 167 00:14:11,874 --> 00:14:17,072 going to come back tomorrow. You don't have to be in fear anymore. This isn't 168 00:14:17,072 --> 00:14:22,269 going to happen to you again. And I'm saying all this out loud where we've 169 00:14:22,269 --> 00:14:27,466 actually got one of the leaders of the synagogue in the crowd because we're on 170 00:14:27,466 --> 00:14:32,664 the way to heal his daughter. So you don't have to worry about being ritually 171 00:14:32,664 --> 00:14:37,861 unclean either. You don't have to worry about being ashamed or rejected. So I 172 00:14:37,861 --> 00:14:43,059 haven't just healed you, I've given you everything that you need, even the 173 00:14:43,059 --> 00:14:48,256 things you didn't think were possible and even the things you didn't know were 174 00:14:48,256 --> 00:14:53,455 even available to you, all because you put two and two together, saw me for who 175 00:14:53,455 --> 00:14:58,653 I really am, and then you touched me as Jesus the Messiah. I just think that's 176 00:14:58,653 --> 00:15:03,850 incredible. We don't even know her name, and yet so much of what we know about 177 00:15:03,850 --> 00:15:09,048 God is encapsulated in this story. So for you and me, there's going to be times 178 00:15:09,048 --> 00:15:14,245 of desperation. Living life is hard. Things happen that we can't control. Things 179 00:15:14,245 --> 00:15:19,442 happen that we don't want. But in that, we need to see Jesus for who he is. We 180 00:15:19,442 --> 00:15:24,640 need to understand that Jesus is our means of provision. We need to have 181 00:15:24,640 --> 00:15:29,839 confidence that he loves us so much that he's going to do whatever we need if we 182 00:15:29,839 --> 00:15:35,035 put our need and our faith into action. So we don't just sit here saying, "Look, 183 00:15:35,035 --> 00:15:40,234 I'm in church, I'm listening to worship music." No, that's being in the crowd. 184 00:15:40,234 --> 00:15:45,431 We need to just go one step beyond that and say, "Yeah, not only am I in the 185 00:15:45,431 --> 00:15:50,629 crowd, but I'm going to reach and touch Jesus." Praying is a fantastic way to do 186 00:15:50,629 --> 00:15:55,826 that. Speaking in tongues is a fantastic way to do that. Reading scriptures that 187 00:15:55,826 --> 00:16:01,024 in increase our knowledge of what Jesus can do and who he is. All of that gives 188 00:16:01,024 --> 00:16:06,221 us that moment of intimacy, and when we get that and we reach out and touch him, 189 00:16:06,221 --> 00:16:11,419 just like this woman, he will heal us, he will deliver us, he will help us, he 190 00:16:11,419 --> 00:16:16,616 will hear us, and he won't stop there. He'll show us his affection, and he'll 191 00:16:16,616 --> 00:16:21,815 also help us resolve all the side issues that come from the problems that we've 192 00:16:21,815 --> 00:16:27,013 got. And if he did it for a woman who we don't even know about, he's absolutely, 193 00:16:27,013 --> 00:16:32,210 definitely going to do that for those of us who've committed our lives to him, 194 00:16:32,210 --> 00:16:37,408 made him Lord of our lives, and are walking with him. This is here to inspire us 195 00:16:37,408 --> 00:16:42,605 to reach out, touch Jesus for what we need. Let me just pray. Lord Jesus, it's 196 00:16:42,605 --> 00:16:47,802 just amazing how kindly you treat this woman and how you're happy that she's 197 00:16:47,802 --> 00:16:53,000 reached out and that you knew something had happened and that you made sure she 198 00:16:53,000 --> 00:16:58,198 knew what had happened and you made sure that all the religious leaders, all the 199 00:16:58,198 --> 00:17:03,395 people who were just looking for some gosh wow, all the people who were 200 00:17:03,395 --> 00:17:08,594 wondering if you really are the Messiah, and you turned a simple momentary touch 201 00:17:08,594 --> 00:17:13,790 into a teaching opportunity and the complete restoration of this woman so that 202 00:17:13,790 --> 00:17:18,989 she could have a life and a great life and live in peace. And Father, I pray 203 00:17:18,989 --> 00:17:24,186 that for anybody who's listening to this who's desperate, Lord, give them the 204 00:17:24,186 --> 00:17:29,384 courage and the faith to reach out and ask you for your help, to touch you, 205 00:17:29,384 --> 00:17:34,582 Lord, and give them the confidence to expect that you will treat them just as 206 00:17:34,582 --> 00:17:39,778 kindly and comprehensively as you treated this woman. Amen. 207 00:17:43,180 --> 00:17:47,973 Oh, thanks for that, Mark. I always love hearing you speak, and in my fluster at 208 00:17:47,973 --> 00:17:52,769 the beginning, I realised I didn't properly really say who you were for those 209 00:17:52,769 --> 00:17:57,564 who haven't heard you before. So, the connection with Mark is that my husband 210 00:17:57,564 --> 00:18:02,357 used to be involved with Traidcraft, and then Mark became involved in 211 00:18:02,357 --> 00:18:07,153 Traidcraft, and I think not actually at the same time, but they were connected 212 00:18:07,153 --> 00:18:11,948 through that, got on really well. And Mark has carried on with fair trade and 213 00:18:11,948 --> 00:18:16,741 sells online, yeah, fair trade stuff, and also has lots of crazy stories about 214 00:18:16,741 --> 00:18:21,537 what God's done and answers to prayer. So if you ever get the chance to speak to 215 00:18:21,537 --> 00:18:26,330 him in person, also a fabulous person to speak to. just want to say hi to 216 00:18:26,330 --> 00:18:31,125 people in the comments as well before we get into discussing. So we've got— oh, 217 00:18:31,125 --> 00:18:35,921 there's loads— Sonia, Ade, Roz. Hi everybody! Catherine, Alicia, Ellis, 218 00:18:35,921 --> 00:18:40,714 Matt, Dan. Am I missing anybody? I apologize if I missed anybody. But yeah, 219 00:18:40,714 --> 00:18:45,509 we've got quite a few comments coming through which hopefully we'll pick up on 220 00:18:45,509 --> 00:18:50,305 soon. But Dave, any thoughts? What, what were you thinking as Mark was 221 00:18:50,305 --> 00:18:55,098 speaking? 222 00:18:55,380 --> 00:19:00,960 Loved it, Mark. It was great. thank you. It's just a faith-inspiring talk. 223 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:06,540 And, for me, just the testimony, I think she'd heard— 224 00:19:06,540 --> 00:19:12,122 probably heard on the grapevine, even though she's isolated and she's not 225 00:19:12,122 --> 00:19:17,702 supposed to be out 'You know, I'm sure she'll have heard about Jesus and how he 226 00:19:17,702 --> 00:19:23,284 set people free and, and all these things, healed the sick.' And she 227 00:19:23,284 --> 00:19:28,865 was just— I think of her desperation. Wasn't desperate just to think, 'Oh, I 228 00:19:28,865 --> 00:19:34,445 could do with meeting him, maybe he'll come past my house.' She got up and she 229 00:19:34,445 --> 00:19:40,027 moved towards him. And, just that faith to go out knowing that there could 230 00:19:40,027 --> 00:19:45,607 be consequences and just pushing through. But I think just that power of what 231 00:19:45,607 --> 00:19:51,189 she said, the power of testimony, we need to realise that the power of 232 00:19:51,189 --> 00:19:56,769 testimony can bring life and change people's whole situations. 233 00:19:57,068 --> 00:19:59,618 Yeah, I kind of like the fact that you've picked up on that. It's like she 234 00:19:59,618 --> 00:20:02,170 wasn't passive. 235 00:20:02,519 --> 00:20:03,358 No, absolutely not. 236 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,883 And that her faith, it— we, you've kind of touched on it a bit, that 237 00:20:06,883 --> 00:20:10,286 faith leads to action. And that pursuit rather than, like you just said, just 238 00:20:10,286 --> 00:20:13,690 sitting back. 239 00:20:13,930 --> 00:20:18,907 And I think we need to realise that, her physical state— she's bled 240 00:20:18,907 --> 00:20:23,884 for 12 years, she's going to be weak, she's not going to be in a great— yeah, 241 00:20:23,884 --> 00:20:28,864 you know, way. And she would have had to push through a crowd. I'm sure the 242 00:20:28,864 --> 00:20:33,842 crowd didn't say, oh, let this lady through. Yeah, but she determined 243 00:20:33,842 --> 00:20:38,819 to press through, and it just inspires me. For myself and for others to say, if 244 00:20:38,819 --> 00:20:43,798 you need a touch from God this evening, push through, push beyond where you are, 245 00:20:43,798 --> 00:20:48,776 and reach out to touch him. She didn't need Jesus to pray for her, she just knew 246 00:20:48,776 --> 00:20:53,753 all she needed to do. She didn't have to stop Jesus, she didn't have to get 247 00:20:53,753 --> 00:20:58,730 ministry from him, she just had to touch him and her life would be changed. 248 00:20:58,730 --> 00:21:03,710 That's her testimony. Amazing. Inspiring. 249 00:21:04,390 --> 00:21:09,535 One of the other things I like about this story is I think you kind of get a 250 00:21:09,535 --> 00:21:14,681 sense of that desperation, which I think we can— many of us can relate to at 251 00:21:14,681 --> 00:21:19,826 different points in our lives of just that, I guess we kind of can put 252 00:21:19,826 --> 00:21:24,971 ourselves in her shoes in a sense, and just thinking sometimes you can feel 253 00:21:24,971 --> 00:21:30,117 really lonely even in a crowd. And I just wonder if That's how she felt, because 254 00:21:30,117 --> 00:21:35,263 really she shouldn't have been there, she shouldn't have been seen. So it's 255 00:21:35,263 --> 00:21:40,410 almost like trying to make yourself invisible in that situation, but also being 256 00:21:40,410 --> 00:21:45,555 like rejected by people. And again, that they're all kind of emotions that we 257 00:21:45,555 --> 00:21:50,701 can relate to, aren't they? And, yeah, I think the Bible can be quite real 258 00:21:50,701 --> 00:21:55,846 and raw about the emotions that we experience. Yeah, but that whole sense of 259 00:21:55,846 --> 00:22:00,991 pressing through. So a question for you guys, have you been in situations 260 00:22:00,991 --> 00:22:06,137 where you've felt that same desperation and you've had to like push through? 261 00:22:06,137 --> 00:22:11,284 Also, for anyone that's watching on the live stream, do you relate to that 262 00:22:11,284 --> 00:22:16,430 aspect of it— desperation, having to push through in pursuit of God? 263 00:22:18,140 --> 00:22:23,151 For me, many, many, many, many times and would have needed a touch from God, 264 00:22:23,151 --> 00:22:28,163 whether it's been, physically. So, a number of years ago I 265 00:22:28,163 --> 00:22:33,173 was with a— we had a Year Team, and Paul— I don't know if you were on that Year 266 00:22:33,173 --> 00:22:38,185 Team, Sharon— but they were up in the Brecon Beacons doing a whole host of 267 00:22:38,185 --> 00:22:43,198 things, activities. Brecon Beacons is where they train the SAS. And I fell, and 268 00:22:43,198 --> 00:22:48,209 I didn't fall very far, It must have been maybe 2 or 3 feet. And, but I'd 269 00:22:48,209 --> 00:22:53,221 got separated from them and I was on the top of this mountain and I had to get 270 00:22:53,221 --> 00:22:58,231 helicoptered off. And, they took me to the hospital and I wasn't in a great 271 00:22:58,231 --> 00:23:03,243 state. And, I was gonna have some real difficulties walking with— and with 272 00:23:03,243 --> 00:23:08,256 balance and a whole host of things. And, I came home and I was just really 273 00:23:08,256 --> 00:23:13,267 desperate for God. You know, I think it was 35 at the time. I wasn't— it was 274 00:23:13,267 --> 00:23:18,278 unlikely that I was going to be able to run around the garden with my son and 275 00:23:18,278 --> 00:23:23,289 kick a ball and all the things that were so important for him. And I remember, 276 00:23:23,289 --> 00:23:28,301 the elders at the time, and the most unlikely people to ever break into your 277 00:23:28,301 --> 00:23:33,314 house, but they broke into our house because I was upstairs and I was 278 00:23:33,314 --> 00:23:38,325 physically— couldn't walk. And they broke in to pray for me, and that just made 279 00:23:38,325 --> 00:23:43,336 me angry. And, I remember on a Saturday evening, I didn't know they held a 280 00:23:43,336 --> 00:23:48,347 prayer meeting in church. But I remember that evening just crying out to God, 281 00:23:48,347 --> 00:23:53,359 you know, God, just come and intervene, just come and intervene, just come and 282 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:58,372 intervene. And 3 times Julie woke me up, said, you're having a nightmare or 283 00:23:58,372 --> 00:24:03,383 something. But, I wasn't. I was actually just— my very being was 284 00:24:03,383 --> 00:24:08,394 crying out to God. And then the next morning, I was utterly and completely 285 00:24:08,394 --> 00:24:13,405 healed. The, gadget that I had on my leg and on my neck, I was able to take 286 00:24:13,405 --> 00:24:18,417 off. I had a hole in my cruciate ligaments about the size of a 50p that was 287 00:24:18,417 --> 00:24:23,430 miraculously healed. So yeah, but quite a few times like that, you know. 288 00:24:23,740 --> 00:24:25,348 And, I don't doubt it, Dave. 289 00:24:25,910 --> 00:24:30,996 Oh yeah, you know, it's just, he's, he's there. Yeah, he's just, 290 00:24:30,996 --> 00:24:36,083 he's just there, you know. And I was desperate, and, and I know 291 00:24:36,083 --> 00:24:41,170 there are desperate people Maybe, people who are watching today who 292 00:24:41,170 --> 00:24:46,256 are desperate, and, and they've been desperate and God hasn't healed them yet. 293 00:24:46,256 --> 00:24:51,343 But what they mustn't forget, he may not have healed you yet, but he's not 294 00:24:51,343 --> 00:24:56,430 abandoned you. He's right there with you, and he wants to minister to you. 295 00:24:57,930 --> 00:25:01,605 Yeah, we've got some great comments which I— and a great question which I do 296 00:25:01,605 --> 00:25:05,279 want to pick up on. But Mark, first, if I go back to you, do you have any 297 00:25:05,279 --> 00:25:08,954 stories of when you've been really desperate and had to make that active choice, 298 00:25:08,954 --> 00:25:12,630 that pushing through? 299 00:25:14,298 --> 00:25:18,930 Yeah, it's, it's, it's a while back now, but it was hard to know which one 300 00:25:18,930 --> 00:25:23,559 to pick, isn't it? But many, many years ago, I, I went through a divorce, and 301 00:25:23,559 --> 00:25:28,191 that meant my kids were going to move to a different country, and that was going 302 00:25:28,191 --> 00:25:32,820 to happen on the Thursday. and I'd been prayer walking for years and years 303 00:25:32,820 --> 00:25:37,451 and years with Graham Kendrick, who's a good friend of mine, and we were 304 00:25:37,451 --> 00:25:42,082 praying, and I was just utterly distraught because I just felt there's nothing. 305 00:25:42,082 --> 00:25:46,711 I can't stop it. I've got no rights to make this not happen. And it just felt 306 00:25:46,711 --> 00:25:51,342 like the end of the world, literally the end of the world. It's probably the 307 00:25:51,342 --> 00:25:55,972 most broken I've ever been. And we were praying together in tongues, and if you 308 00:25:55,972 --> 00:26:00,603 pray with somebody regularly, you know what they sound like when they pray in 309 00:26:00,603 --> 00:26:05,232 tongues. And suddenly, he's a very mild-mannered man, and he was praying. It was 310 00:26:05,232 --> 00:26:09,864 very guttural and quite aggressive, which is not him at all. and, uh, 311 00:26:09,864 --> 00:26:14,493 afterwards, I said, well, do you have a sense of what you were 312 00:26:14,493 --> 00:26:19,124 praying? And it, it came out, it was all about the Lord's absolute ruthless 313 00:26:19,124 --> 00:26:23,755 violent determination to protect the relationship between me and my girls, but 314 00:26:23,755 --> 00:26:28,384 that I needed to hand them over to him. And that, yeah, in my strength, there 315 00:26:28,384 --> 00:26:33,015 was nothing I could do at all. But it just gave me a sovereign peace. And then 316 00:26:33,015 --> 00:26:37,645 for 13 years, I was backwards and forwards, backwards and forwards. And 317 00:26:37,645 --> 00:26:42,276 literally, it was about 12, 13 years later, we were at the top of the Empire 318 00:26:42,276 --> 00:26:46,905 State Building. It was the birthday of one of my girls. And I just started 319 00:26:46,905 --> 00:26:51,537 crying like a baby in front of, hundreds of people all crammed on that 320 00:26:51,537 --> 00:26:56,166 top deck there, because I suddenly realised, I thought, we've made it. We've 321 00:26:56,166 --> 00:27:00,797 actually done it. All that thing that I feared, that I, I'd lose them 322 00:27:00,797 --> 00:27:05,428 and that we wouldn't have a connection. And we were having an absolute ball 323 00:27:05,428 --> 00:27:10,057 driving up the East Coast of the States. We got to New York, we were up there 324 00:27:10,057 --> 00:27:14,688 enjoying ourselves, and I just thought, yeah, everything that he said he would 325 00:27:14,688 --> 00:27:19,318 do, he did. but the knowledge that he had spoken, that's what I needed, 326 00:27:19,318 --> 00:27:23,949 that's what centred me. So it's probably the most dramatic desperation answer 327 00:27:23,949 --> 00:27:28,578 I've had. 328 00:27:28,650 --> 00:27:33,473 Yeah, because we have those dramatic seasons, don't we? Where the emotion is 329 00:27:33,473 --> 00:27:38,298 very deep and very raw, and then there are the, just the general 330 00:27:38,298 --> 00:27:43,122 everyday kind of scuffles. Just picking up on some of the comments— oh, so many, 331 00:27:43,122 --> 00:27:47,945 I'm losing my place here. Alisha's put, I always think of her actions, the 332 00:27:47,945 --> 00:27:52,769 woman, as courageous too, especially when she admits she's the one who's touched 333 00:27:52,769 --> 00:27:57,594 him despite her fear. Yeah, yeah, there is that fear and courage. I think 334 00:27:57,594 --> 00:28:02,417 courage is in a sense stronger in the face of fear, isn't it, when you have to 335 00:28:02,417 --> 00:28:07,240 overcome that. Matt's put— I love this— for me, she wanted to be made whole, 336 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:12,066 but when she touched Jesus, she was made well. That's partial wholeness. Calling 337 00:28:12,066 --> 00:28:16,890 her daughter, Jesus made her whole, not just healed. Yeah, because he's 338 00:28:16,890 --> 00:28:21,712 restoring her to the community in that sense, isn't he? And then, yeah, and then 339 00:28:21,712 --> 00:28:26,538 we've got a question from Alice. he says, might sound like a silly question, 340 00:28:26,538 --> 00:28:31,362 but how do you push through? Not a silly question at all. It's— I think that's 341 00:28:31,362 --> 00:28:36,184 kind of like language we can use. It becomes a bit juggling. So guys, how do you 342 00:28:36,184 --> 00:28:41,009 push through? 343 00:28:42,730 --> 00:28:45,868 Well, I think she's in a crowd. She's literally in a crowd. 344 00:28:45,940 --> 00:28:46,240 Yeah. 345 00:28:46,480 --> 00:28:50,530 And to get to where she wants to get, even though she's not in good physical 346 00:28:50,530 --> 00:28:54,582 condition, she just literally presses into people. And by the way, the fact that 347 00:28:54,582 --> 00:28:58,634 she touches those people, they are now unclean. They may not know it, but 348 00:28:58,634 --> 00:29:02,684 according to the law, they are now unclean. And she literally is having to move 349 00:29:02,684 --> 00:29:06,737 them out of the way, you know. And she's not got a whole lot of strength, but 350 00:29:06,737 --> 00:29:10,788 what she has she just is moving them out the way to get to where she needs to 351 00:29:10,788 --> 00:29:14,838 be. 352 00:29:15,710 --> 00:29:20,625 How would that translate? So, so say for example, we've got people watching who 353 00:29:20,625 --> 00:29:25,538 are in a desperate situation and we're saying push through to God. Well, what 354 00:29:25,538 --> 00:29:30,453 would that look like in this situation where you're not physically in a crowd 355 00:29:30,453 --> 00:29:35,368 trying to get to a physical Jesus? But what does it— what does it look like? 356 00:29:36,808 --> 00:29:38,818 Do you want to go first, Mark? 357 00:29:39,038 --> 00:29:43,980 Yeah, I think It's, it's using what we've got, isn't it? And the thing, when 358 00:29:43,980 --> 00:29:48,921 you're that desperate, you think, I just, I'm so stuck, there's just nothing 359 00:29:48,921 --> 00:29:53,862 that I can do. But we can always go to God and say, my life feels like the sky 360 00:29:53,862 --> 00:29:58,803 is falling on my head, but I believe you're the God who can help me, who can 361 00:29:58,803 --> 00:30:03,743 heal me, who can restore my marriage, who can, help me in my business, help 362 00:30:03,743 --> 00:30:08,684 me be a better mum, a better dad, a better uncle, auntie, whatever it is that we 363 00:30:08,684 --> 00:30:13,625 have. I think to give God what we have, and I think that the point David's just 364 00:30:13,625 --> 00:30:18,566 made is, look, what strength did she have after 12 years of bleeding, but she 365 00:30:18,566 --> 00:30:23,507 does manage to get through? You think, well, it turns out that the little she 366 00:30:23,507 --> 00:30:28,448 had was enough. And I think often part of feeling desperate is you just lose all 367 00:30:28,448 --> 00:30:33,388 hope, don't you? And you think, one of the things that we can do to help to, you 368 00:30:33,388 --> 00:30:38,329 know, bolster the little bit of hope we've got is to confess out God's goodness, 369 00:30:38,329 --> 00:30:43,270 is to be thankful, to thank him for the things that we've seen him do, and to 370 00:30:43,270 --> 00:30:48,211 say out loud, literally out loud. We were talking about Derek Prince and his 371 00:30:48,211 --> 00:30:53,153 proclamations before we went live, and I think that's the point, isn't it? We 372 00:30:53,153 --> 00:30:58,093 need to put the right words in our mouth. Scripture's full of the right words. 373 00:30:58,093 --> 00:31:03,034 So yeah, there's a psalm or a passage of scripture, even if it feels 374 00:31:03,034 --> 00:31:07,974 irrelevant to the situation, I think We just need to use our lips. And I think 375 00:31:07,974 --> 00:31:12,915 it doesn't take any energy to be able to move your lips. It just takes will, 376 00:31:12,915 --> 00:31:17,856 doesn't it? And courage, like somebody's already said about this, this woman. So 377 00:31:17,856 --> 00:31:22,798 I would say deliberately position ourselves as in a place of thanksgiving and 378 00:31:22,798 --> 00:31:27,739 expectancy by speaking out what we know of God's ability to heal, to help, to 379 00:31:27,739 --> 00:31:32,680 save, to restore. And that can be a first move. 380 00:31:33,390 --> 00:31:34,269 Yeah, great. 381 00:31:34,740 --> 00:31:38,325 I think finding out, says, well, what does God's Word— what helps me most is 382 00:31:38,325 --> 00:31:41,910 find out what does God's Word say about this. 383 00:31:42,118 --> 00:31:42,308 Yeah. 384 00:31:42,759 --> 00:31:47,413 And then I will just camp there and, as it were, start to proclaim God's Word. 385 00:31:47,413 --> 00:31:52,066 Because I don't have to remind him, because he doesn't have amnesia or anything. 386 00:31:52,066 --> 00:31:56,720 But I just start to speak out God's Word, and it stirs faith in me. And it makes 387 00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:01,373 a way. But I think the other thing as well, that, it's not necessarily 388 00:32:01,373 --> 00:32:06,026 fitting in with her story, but we're not called to do this walk on our own, that 389 00:32:06,026 --> 00:32:10,680 God has generally put people around us. 390 00:32:10,778 --> 00:32:10,940 Yeah. 391 00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,970 And, we need to find people who we trust. 392 00:32:15,259 --> 00:32:15,338 Yeah. 393 00:32:16,140 --> 00:32:19,710 And who can walk on this journey with us, who can open up the word of God with 394 00:32:19,710 --> 00:32:23,278 us and pray for us and hold us accountable. 395 00:32:23,460 --> 00:32:23,608 Yeah. 396 00:32:24,088 --> 00:32:25,058 Yeah, yeah, yeah. 397 00:32:25,460 --> 00:32:30,038 Great answers. Alicia's also, put one in which picks up on what you said, 398 00:32:30,038 --> 00:32:34,615 Mark. so sometimes pushing through to touch Jesus for me means praying first 399 00:32:34,615 --> 00:32:39,193 instead of panicking first. Yeah, so it's picking up on the prayer aspect. Dave 400 00:32:39,193 --> 00:32:43,771 picked up on the, like, really getting into scripture and just going, God, if 401 00:32:43,771 --> 00:32:48,349 this is your word, show me, like, teach me from this. And the community aspect. 402 00:32:48,349 --> 00:32:52,928 I think an example from me as well would be, one that I've talked about 403 00:32:52,928 --> 00:32:57,506 loads of times, but, when I would— when my faith just really wasn't working 404 00:32:57,506 --> 00:33:02,085 and I'm like, God, you've got to do something, for me that actually meant 405 00:33:02,085 --> 00:33:06,663 physically moving. That was how I ended up coming to Liverpool, because I'm 406 00:33:06,663 --> 00:33:11,240 like, God, if you don't sort this thing out for me, I'm, I'm gonna 407 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:15,818 walk away from you, and you've got this one last chance to sort this out, which 408 00:33:15,818 --> 00:33:20,396 is how I ended up in Liverpool. But again, even that was like I felt compelled. 409 00:33:20,396 --> 00:33:24,974 It was like God's Spirit compelling me up here. So I think there's having that 410 00:33:24,974 --> 00:33:29,553 openness to God's Spirit to lead. And I do believe that when we cry out to him, 411 00:33:29,553 --> 00:33:34,131 he does answer. maybe not all the ways the way that we expect or want, but 412 00:33:34,131 --> 00:33:38,710 yeah. Mark, did you have something else? 413 00:33:39,460 --> 00:33:43,519 Yeah, it sounded like it's interesting that she never said to Jesus what the 414 00:33:43,519 --> 00:33:47,578 problem was. She just touched him. 415 00:33:48,130 --> 00:33:48,210 Yeah. 416 00:33:48,288 --> 00:33:53,191 And you think, well, but she got the healing that she needed, not the healing 417 00:33:53,191 --> 00:33:58,093 that the person next to her needed. And I think often we tend to get so focused 418 00:33:58,093 --> 00:34:02,994 on what's going wrong that that's front and centre, but of course that just 419 00:34:02,994 --> 00:34:07,896 kills your faith. So in a slightly counterintuitive way, actually, probably 420 00:34:07,896 --> 00:34:12,797 saying to the Lord, here's my problem, please do something about it, isn't 421 00:34:12,797 --> 00:34:17,699 always that helpful, a, because he knows what the problem is. I think first, at 422 00:34:17,699 --> 00:34:22,601 least, let's get into his presence, you know. And it says that we enter his 423 00:34:22,601 --> 00:34:27,503 gates with thanksgiving, we go into his courts with praise. And I think 424 00:34:27,503 --> 00:34:32,405 thanksgiving and praise put us in the right relationship to the Lord. And 425 00:34:32,405 --> 00:34:37,306 sometimes you don't need to say any more than that. That's all that's required. 426 00:34:37,306 --> 00:34:42,208 Other times we do need to say, listen, I'm blind, can I see? But I think, I— 427 00:34:42,208 --> 00:34:47,110 especially when we're borderline panicking, it's really important not to confess 428 00:34:47,110 --> 00:34:52,012 out everything that's making us afraid because it makes us more afraid. But if 429 00:34:52,012 --> 00:34:56,914 we proclaim God's goodness, proclaim God's faithfulness, proclaim God's power, 430 00:34:56,914 --> 00:35:01,815 proclaim God's love and his mercy, that puts us in a way better position. And 431 00:35:01,815 --> 00:35:06,717 then sometimes that's all we need, and bang, it's sorted. Other times then we 432 00:35:06,717 --> 00:35:11,619 can go ahead and say, can you please help me with this? 433 00:35:12,469 --> 00:35:13,610 Yeah, yeah. 434 00:35:14,639 --> 00:35:18,820 And we've got some discussion going on in the, the group chat about, how 435 00:35:18,820 --> 00:35:23,003 she's not named. Yeah, yeah, and like many of the people in, in these 436 00:35:23,003 --> 00:35:27,184 stories, they're not given a name. Although Matt has put in, in Eastern Orthodox 437 00:35:27,184 --> 00:35:31,365 tradition she's named Fotina, meaning the luminous one. But this name comes from 438 00:35:31,365 --> 00:35:35,547 church tradition rather than than the actual script, the text itself. But yeah, 439 00:35:35,547 --> 00:35:39,730 interesting one. 440 00:35:39,829 --> 00:35:44,619 I think, I think, was it Matthew said before, in the process she's just a 441 00:35:44,619 --> 00:35:49,409 woman without a name with a disease. 442 00:35:50,309 --> 00:35:50,389 Yeah. 443 00:35:50,730 --> 00:35:57,059 Wherever she goes, whatever she touches, whoever she touches, she contaminates 444 00:35:57,059 --> 00:36:03,389 them. And then she meets Christ Jesus, she touches him. And the, in 445 00:36:03,389 --> 00:36:09,719 the paradigm that they'd been working with, he would have been unclean. 446 00:36:10,219 --> 00:36:10,309 Yeah. 447 00:36:10,469 --> 00:36:15,048 But the power of God that is in him, she touches him and she is made whole. And 448 00:36:15,048 --> 00:36:19,630 I love it. And it's then on that revelation that she was no longer bleeding, is 449 00:36:19,630 --> 00:36:24,210 that she knew that she was whole. That's where you find your identity. When you 450 00:36:24,210 --> 00:36:28,789 have identity, you know You just know who you are. 451 00:36:28,940 --> 00:36:29,030 Yeah. 452 00:36:29,340 --> 00:36:30,929 And that's when he calls her daughter. 453 00:36:31,110 --> 00:36:31,280 Yeah. 454 00:36:31,570 --> 00:36:36,650 And I think, there is a process, that we need to keep on the whole 455 00:36:36,650 --> 00:36:41,730 story, you know. So it starts not naming her, but, and he finishes with 456 00:36:41,730 --> 00:36:46,809 daughter. Yeah. Your faith. He admonishes her. Shouldn't even be at the 457 00:36:46,809 --> 00:36:51,889 beginning, shouldn't have been out. Daughter, your faith has made you whole. 458 00:36:51,969 --> 00:36:52,469 Yeah. 459 00:36:52,940 --> 00:36:52,969 Wow. 460 00:36:53,099 --> 00:36:54,050 Jesus said that to her. 461 00:36:54,219 --> 00:36:54,400 Yeah. 462 00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,289 You know, she's on my list to talk to when I get to heaven. Yeah, that's just 463 00:36:58,289 --> 00:37:01,780 amazing. You know, daughter, your faith, love it. 464 00:37:02,090 --> 00:37:07,103 I love the compassion of Jesus that this brings out as well. Like, where 465 00:37:07,103 --> 00:37:12,117 needed, Jesus is so gentle and compassionate and gracious and generous. But then 466 00:37:12,117 --> 00:37:17,132 in other stories where people need it, he can be really to the point and, you 467 00:37:17,132 --> 00:37:22,146 know, quite blunt, can't he? And yeah. So I, I love that about this story. Um, 468 00:37:22,146 --> 00:37:27,161 so now in my head, this, this story is great, isn't it? This woman, she's in a 469 00:37:27,161 --> 00:37:32,175 difficult situation, she pushes through, she touches Jesus, she gets her 470 00:37:32,175 --> 00:37:37,190 healing, she's restored. But I know there's loads of people out there who've 471 00:37:37,190 --> 00:37:42,204 been praying for years, not got the answer that they wanted. Any words of 472 00:37:42,204 --> 00:37:47,219 wisdom? Just throw you guys in. 473 00:37:48,090 --> 00:37:49,420 Well, she had it for 12 years. 474 00:37:50,070 --> 00:37:50,250 Yeah. 475 00:37:50,489 --> 00:37:54,789 And I don't know how long— maybe, well, it wasn't more than 3 years. I 476 00:37:54,789 --> 00:37:59,090 don't know what her exposure to Jesus had been in that time. 477 00:37:59,219 --> 00:37:59,300 Yeah. 478 00:37:59,710 --> 00:38:05,443 But, relationship with Jesus isn't about everything being perfect, 479 00:38:05,443 --> 00:38:11,177 you know. there are many Christians and, they're not in a 480 00:38:11,177 --> 00:38:16,911 great place at all. I had a testimony just about 2 weeks ago of a guy who's in a 481 00:38:16,911 --> 00:38:22,646 persecuted nation, and they took him and they covered him in petrol and they set 482 00:38:22,646 --> 00:38:28,380 fire to him. And within days he was sharing the gospel, and he said, 'I thank 483 00:38:28,380 --> 00:38:34,114 God that they only burnt my legs.' They covered him head to toe and set fire to 484 00:38:34,114 --> 00:38:39,849 him. 485 00:38:40,329 --> 00:38:40,440 Wow. 486 00:38:41,210 --> 00:38:45,735 You know, and, I would say, it's not about come to Jesus and 487 00:38:45,735 --> 00:38:50,260 everything is okay. It's about come to Jesus and I'll never leave you or abandon 488 00:38:50,260 --> 00:38:54,786 you. So wherever we go, yes, we'll walk through the fire and we will feel the 489 00:38:54,786 --> 00:38:59,311 heat. You know, we might get singed a bit. You know, we'll walk through, you 490 00:38:59,311 --> 00:39:03,838 know, the water and we won't be overcome, but we will get wet. And I think, you 491 00:39:03,838 --> 00:39:08,364 know, you look at that church in Acts, which we're studying in church at the 492 00:39:08,364 --> 00:39:12,889 moment, and, the church flourishes in difficulty. 493 00:39:13,079 --> 00:39:13,340 Yeah. 494 00:39:13,780 --> 00:39:18,166 And we need to realise that, you know, some of us have sicknesses, 495 00:39:18,166 --> 00:39:22,552 and, you might have a disease and, you're getting 496 00:39:22,552 --> 00:39:26,938 medical treatment for yourself. Oh my God, I keep hearing about you, God, 497 00:39:26,938 --> 00:39:31,324 healing people, blah blah blah. And, you know what, I, I've got a disease, 498 00:39:31,324 --> 00:39:35,710 and a few years ago when I got it, I just thought, God, I'm seeing all these 499 00:39:35,710 --> 00:39:40,096 miracles praying for people, blah, blah, blah. We've seen people with HIV being 500 00:39:40,096 --> 00:39:44,481 healed, a whole host of phenomenal things. It's amazing. And then I got sick, 501 00:39:44,481 --> 00:39:48,867 and I'm like, God, I don't understand. And I was angry, and I was confused, and 502 00:39:48,867 --> 00:39:53,253 I was still ministering, and I couldn't pray for anybody for about 3 months 503 00:39:53,253 --> 00:39:57,639 because I was angry. And I'm like, God, how can I pray for somebody when I'm 504 00:39:57,639 --> 00:40:02,025 sick? And you know, I'm convinced that God speaks to you in a language you 505 00:40:02,025 --> 00:40:06,411 understand. And I just felt in my inner being God say to me, 'Dave, you've never 506 00:40:06,411 --> 00:40:10,797 healed anybody. It's me who does the healing.' You know, and I still have that 507 00:40:10,797 --> 00:40:15,184 disease, but I am fervent about being a vessel open for God to use in praying 508 00:40:15,184 --> 00:40:19,570 for people who are sick. 509 00:40:20,420 --> 00:40:25,313 So yeah, and I think over the time that you've been ill, it's that you just seem 510 00:40:25,313 --> 00:40:30,206 to have more and more stories of what God's doing both in you and through you, 511 00:40:30,206 --> 00:40:35,099 and just like the people that you come in contact with just having words of 512 00:40:35,099 --> 00:40:39,992 knowledge and stuff to pray and seeing all this stuff happen. So on the one 513 00:40:39,992 --> 00:40:44,885 hand, it looks like you're having this amazing time in the middle of the fact 514 00:40:44,885 --> 00:40:49,780 that actually you're still ill, still suffering many times. 515 00:40:49,909 --> 00:40:50,750 I haven't been healed yet. 516 00:40:51,010 --> 00:40:51,329 Yeah. 517 00:40:51,659 --> 00:40:53,190 And nobody wants to be healed more than me. 518 00:40:53,409 --> 00:40:53,739 Yeah. 519 00:40:53,989 --> 00:40:56,659 But, I trust him. 520 00:40:57,219 --> 00:40:58,969 So how did you get over your anger? 521 00:41:00,079 --> 00:41:05,179 How did I get over my anger? well, one, it wasn't doing me any good. It was 522 00:41:05,179 --> 00:41:10,280 shrinking faith. It was making me distant from God. And I just, I've 523 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:15,380 always known that God, since I came to faith, that God has loved me and he was 524 00:41:15,380 --> 00:41:20,480 faithful to me when I wasn't that faithful to him. And, I just said, God, 525 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:25,579 you know, my favourite Bible verse, I'll never leave you or abandon you. And I 526 00:41:25,579 --> 00:41:30,679 said, God, I can't feel you, but I know because this is what your word says. 527 00:41:30,679 --> 00:41:35,780 Changed everything. Yeah, changed everything. 528 00:41:36,579 --> 00:41:40,695 Yeah, I, again, I think I might have shared this before, but I've had times when 529 00:41:40,695 --> 00:41:44,809 my mind was an absolute mess, and emotionally wise, I couldn't grasp anything 530 00:41:44,809 --> 00:41:48,925 that the Bible was saying. But I was like, okay, your word says this. So this is 531 00:41:48,925 --> 00:41:53,041 what I'm going to believe. And I, in my head, I had this image— I don't know if 532 00:41:53,041 --> 00:41:57,157 it's an accurate image— of, flying a plane and not being able to see 533 00:41:57,157 --> 00:42:01,271 anything around because it was all foggy, but just having to rely on the 534 00:42:01,271 --> 00:42:05,387 instruments. And those instruments were like the word of God. So it's like, 535 00:42:05,387 --> 00:42:09,503 okay, I'm just gonna go with this. I can't see any of it, I can't feel it, I, 536 00:42:09,503 --> 00:42:13,619 I'm not understanding it right now, but the word of God says this, so I'm going 537 00:42:13,619 --> 00:42:17,733 to believe this. And eventually it was like the fog clears and it's like, ah, 538 00:42:17,733 --> 00:42:21,849 yeah, that is right, I can see it. 539 00:42:21,989 --> 00:42:26,960 Yeah, I think— sorry, sorry, I think I remember clearly, one evening— well, 540 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:31,932 one early morning, about 2 AM, in those difficult times, 541 00:42:31,932 --> 00:42:36,905 I remember just reading through scripture and I just jumped out of the story. I 542 00:42:36,905 --> 00:42:41,876 knew, where, where the guys are then, and, and they say this and 543 00:42:41,876 --> 00:42:46,849 that. You say, even if God doesn't do— we believe he can. 544 00:42:47,268 --> 00:42:47,369 Yeah. 545 00:42:47,449 --> 00:42:51,280 But even if he doesn't, yet will we praise him. 546 00:42:51,599 --> 00:42:53,070 Yeah, yeah. 547 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:58,436 And you know, you might be, listening or watching this evening, 548 00:42:58,436 --> 00:43:03,434 you know, fix your heart on him, not for what he can do for us, but for who 549 00:43:03,434 --> 00:43:08,431 he is. He saved our souls and restored us to right relationship with God. That's 550 00:43:08,431 --> 00:43:13,429 the greatest healing, that any of us can receive. And listen, I 551 00:43:13,429 --> 00:43:18,427 really want to be— I'm not making an excuse, I want to be healed more than 552 00:43:18,427 --> 00:43:23,425 anybody, you know. I'm not— I don't make excuses, you know. I don't— you know, 553 00:43:23,425 --> 00:43:28,422 there's a handful of people I talk about my disease to, but my focus is on him 554 00:43:28,422 --> 00:43:33,420 because it's him we have to trust. 555 00:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,125 Yeah, that's great. Marco, what about you? Have you got any words of wisdom for 556 00:43:37,125 --> 00:43:40,768 people who maybe are struggling like that? 557 00:43:41,650 --> 00:43:46,733 I think it's a very, very delicate area, isn't it? So my mum was in a— my mum 558 00:43:46,733 --> 00:43:51,818 had MS all as long as I can remember. My mum was in a wheelchair and she, she 559 00:43:51,818 --> 00:43:56,903 died with it, not of it, but she died as a very old lady. And she was in a 560 00:43:56,903 --> 00:44:01,989 meeting, with a— there was two of them sat side by side, both in 561 00:44:01,989 --> 00:44:07,074 wheelchairs, both with MS, at Spring Harvest, I think it was. And the woman next 562 00:44:07,074 --> 00:44:12,159 to her was sovereignly, spectacularly healed and walked out of the big top 563 00:44:12,159 --> 00:44:17,242 holding her wheelchair. And nothing happened to my mum. So I find that very, 564 00:44:17,242 --> 00:44:22,327 very challenging. But to the day she died, she was adamant God is a God who 565 00:44:22,327 --> 00:44:27,413 heals. So there are things that we don't understand. And I think what we'd never 566 00:44:27,413 --> 00:44:32,498 want to do is then heap guilt on the person who's not healed. Well, it's your 567 00:44:32,498 --> 00:44:37,583 fault, and you know, you obviously don't have enough faith. There's— that just 568 00:44:37,583 --> 00:44:42,668 doesn't help, and it's not, it's not the way Jesus reacted to this woman. But I 569 00:44:42,668 --> 00:44:47,753 think I would say we should behave and believe that it's on the way, at least. 570 00:44:47,753 --> 00:44:52,836 Yeah. So the fact that I have not been healed doesn't mean I will not be healed. 571 00:44:52,836 --> 00:44:57,922 Yeah. And even for her, at the start of the story, she's at the outside of the 572 00:44:57,922 --> 00:45:03,007 crowd, and it takes some period of time for her to get to the place where it's 573 00:45:03,007 --> 00:45:08,092 just a reach out and touch exercise to get in contact with Jesus. So I think 574 00:45:08,092 --> 00:45:13,177 sometimes there is the jostling of the crowd and circumstance. Sometimes 575 00:45:13,177 --> 00:45:18,262 desperation is the final bit that makes, I flippin' well will reach 576 00:45:18,262 --> 00:45:23,346 out and touch him because I'm so desperate. Whereas, especially us 577 00:45:23,346 --> 00:45:28,431 Brits, we never like to really be honest about our suffering, do we? And, you 578 00:45:28,431 --> 00:45:33,516 know, I think sometimes we expend every other option first But scripturally, 579 00:45:33,516 --> 00:45:38,601 Jesus healed everyone who came to him. So that has to be our source of truth. 580 00:45:38,601 --> 00:45:43,686 But we also know people where that doesn't seem to be a straight-line 581 00:45:43,686 --> 00:45:48,771 experience, and some people are— die in faith for their healing. And of course, 582 00:45:48,771 --> 00:45:53,856 once we get to heaven, we know for a fact healing is completed at that point. So 583 00:45:53,856 --> 00:45:58,940 it's how we position ourselves with respect to Jesus in that time between 584 00:45:58,940 --> 00:46:04,025 starting to ask and receiving what we're asking for. That's where we have to be 585 00:46:04,025 --> 00:46:09,110 ruthless and say, but the Jesus I'm trying to reach is a healer, is a deliverer, 586 00:46:09,110 --> 00:46:14,195 is a comforter, is a peace giver, is a purpose giver, is a new life giver, a 587 00:46:14,195 --> 00:46:19,280 second chance giver. That's what we have to keep our eyes fixed on. it's 588 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:24,364 frustrating that it doesn't work in black and white instant like it appears to 589 00:46:24,364 --> 00:46:29,449 do it in that story. 590 00:46:29,500 --> 00:46:34,844 Yeah, just, I just want to pick up on another thing. The whole thing of, um, 591 00:46:34,844 --> 00:46:40,188 so Jesus was on his way to somebody important to do a healing there, but he 592 00:46:40,188 --> 00:46:45,532 stopped for this woman who was a bit more of an outcast, a bit more of an 593 00:46:45,532 --> 00:46:50,876 unknown. And yeah, I just really want to kind of focus on that fact that Jesus 594 00:46:50,876 --> 00:46:56,219 stops for each of us when we reach out to him. I think a couple of weeks ago we 595 00:46:56,219 --> 00:47:01,563 talked about how God sees us. Last week it was, about being touched by Jesus 596 00:47:01,563 --> 00:47:06,907 in the good sense of that word. yeah, so this week it's really like how 597 00:47:06,907 --> 00:47:12,251 Jesus stops for us It's, yeah, whether we feel like we're important in 598 00:47:12,251 --> 00:47:17,596 society or whether we feel that we're not, he, he stopped. He listens. He, he 599 00:47:17,596 --> 00:47:22,940 stops for— 600 00:47:23,079 --> 00:47:25,070 yeah, that's brilliant. Fantastic. 601 00:47:25,630 --> 00:47:29,300 Oh, anything else that you want to add, guys? 602 00:47:30,849 --> 00:47:36,242 God is really good, and he knows exactly what season of life that we're in. You 603 00:47:36,242 --> 00:47:41,635 know, life mightn't be good The season of life we are in mightn't be good. The 604 00:47:41,635 --> 00:47:47,030 situation we are in mightn't be good. But you know, God knows us. 605 00:47:47,469 --> 00:47:47,780 Yeah. 606 00:47:48,018 --> 00:47:53,626 And he is for us. And whether you know him yet or not, he loves you. And his 607 00:47:53,626 --> 00:47:59,233 love isn't conditional. It's open for all, regardless what we've done, where 608 00:47:59,233 --> 00:48:04,840 we've been, what we haven't done. And, You know, the Jesus that we talk 609 00:48:04,840 --> 00:48:10,447 about, he's just loving and compassionate. Whether he's on the way to the 610 00:48:10,447 --> 00:48:16,054 synagogue official to heal his daughter who's dying, or whether it's this lady 611 00:48:16,054 --> 00:48:21,661 who shouldn't be out, he's there and he engages. And the great news is 612 00:48:21,661 --> 00:48:27,268 that Jesus is still engaging with men and women all around our nation. 613 00:48:27,550 --> 00:48:27,639 Yeah. 614 00:48:27,710 --> 00:48:30,340 And around the nations of the world. And people are coming to find real life in 615 00:48:30,340 --> 00:48:32,969 him. 616 00:48:33,969 --> 00:48:34,260 Amen. 617 00:48:34,929 --> 00:48:36,518 Any last thoughts from you, man? 618 00:48:37,659 --> 00:48:42,222 Yeah, Jesus doesn't have a VIP list. I think the point you're making there, 619 00:48:42,222 --> 00:48:46,786 that's so important, isn't it? You know, is it for me? Yes, it's for you. And 620 00:48:46,786 --> 00:48:51,349 both the important person, who's only important in secular terms, he's not 621 00:48:51,349 --> 00:48:55,913 important in Jesus' eyes, she's not unimportant in his eyes, but they both get 622 00:48:55,913 --> 00:49:00,476 exactly what they need from the same Jesus. And I think actually maybe Jairus's 623 00:49:00,476 --> 00:49:05,039 faith— because the delay causes Jairus's daughter to die, and yet he hears Jesus 624 00:49:05,039 --> 00:49:09,603 speak like that— maybe that was Jesus bolstering his faith too, to say it's 625 00:49:09,603 --> 00:49:14,166 never too late. She was actually dead. He said, no, no, she's just asleep. And 626 00:49:14,166 --> 00:49:18,730 yeah, so yeah, never ever give up. I would say never give up. 627 00:49:19,289 --> 00:49:23,126 We've got a comment from Zoe, not the Zoe that's doing the tech. I've 628 00:49:23,126 --> 00:49:26,965 had a debilitating illness for 5 years but only just come to God. I've prayed 629 00:49:26,965 --> 00:49:30,802 for healing but not received it yet. This conversation is good to hear and 630 00:49:30,802 --> 00:49:34,639 continues to give me hope. Thank you. 631 00:49:35,329 --> 00:49:39,199 Yeah, bless you, Z. Yeah, yeah, cool. 632 00:49:39,980 --> 00:49:44,510 I think we will wrap up Conversation Street there, but do come and join us 633 00:49:44,510 --> 00:49:49,041 in Live Lounge. Hopefully the, the link will appear on the screen. And just 634 00:49:49,041 --> 00:49:53,572 One last thing to say is actually our 28th wedding anniversary today, me and my 635 00:49:53,572 --> 00:49:58,103 husband. So thank you for joining us for our little celebration. Yeah, so yeah, 636 00:49:58,103 --> 00:50:02,635 so we'll wrap it up today. Thanks for joining us in the comments. There's been 637 00:50:02,635 --> 00:50:07,166 so many, I've not been able to pick up on all of them. Sorry if I've not got 638 00:50:07,166 --> 00:50:11,697 around to yours, but join us in Live Lounge now, or come back and join us 639 00:50:11,697 --> 00:50:16,228 next week for the continuation in the series on Jesus the Revolutionary. So 640 00:50:16,228 --> 00:50:20,760 goodbye. Thank you very much.