Hey everyone, I am Kirsten, and that is Jeannie, my business partner.

And we are so excited to have you here today for a fantastic, uh, conversation

about associations and signature speeches and all kinds of things that

are gonna help you grow your business.

So, Jeannie, would you like to introduce our guest today?

I would.

I would.

We are so excited we have Jen.

Espinoza Goswami here, and her company is Weightless LLC.

And she is an ACC MAL and is an IFC certified holistic coach.

She helps small businesses leverage their expertise through paid public speaking.

A coach of the year finalist from International Association of Women,

Jen's an international speaker who's been featured on Authority Magazine.

Thrive Global Women's Health and numerous podcasts.

Jen lives in Minneapolis with her husband, two daughters, Chewini and Leopard Gecko.

So today she's going to talk to us about speaking to associations and

actually getting paid for your expertise.

So Jen, thank you so much for joining us.

We're absolutely thrilled to have you.

Thank you, Jeannie Ann Kirsten.

It's good to be here.

Thank you.

And before we jump into this, I would love just to have everyone

know a little bit about your story.

So what kind of led you into speaking and then into health coaching, because

you have a fascinating transformation that you ended up sharing and

really turning it into a business.

Yeah, not, not everyone knows this about my story, but if you

go to my website, you'll see some elements of this in my story.

So the reason why I help people with their signature speeches is my business

started with the signature speech and, um, I started doing the circuits of health

seminars through sharing my own personal journey of losing a hundred pounds.

That was back in my 20s.

It's been some time since then, so I no longer share that story as much

as I used to, but I reached a point where I was sharing this story just

for fun through my Toastmasters groups, through local organizations, just

because I enjoyed speaking that much.

And I had such a good response from my audience members that they

came up to me afterwards and they say, not only was that an awesome

speech but Jen, how do you help me?

with my health because my health is not where I want it to be.

And that's when the seed of the idea got planted for wait lists.

And I said, okay, well, people have a need here and I have a service that I

can provide to help them with that need.

So I started as a health coach or as a speaker, rather I started sharing my

story before I ever got paid to speak.

Because I was doing it for free.

And then people started asking to coach with me.

So I started offering those services as well.

And now today I pivoted into public speaking coaching.

Because I'm, I realize the power of your story.

And not necessarily your personal story.

It started that way with me.

It doesn't have to start that way with you.

Your signature speech can be anything.

But it has to be core to the work that you offer in this world.

And I know that it has a powerful impact.

And that just based on all the audience feedback I've received over the past.

12 years.

It's perfect.

So I am excited to learn more about.

You know, why a signature speech?

I think you just touched on it, but like, how do we create that signature speech?

And I know Jeannie and I always struggle because there's two of us and just not one

of us, but, you know, giving people advice on that signature speech, what would

you, where would you have them start?

Yeah.

I love that you asked that question because I think a lot of people have

some misinformation around story selling, storytelling, the power

of sharing your story, and I've.

participated in groups that say, Hey, just share your story.

It has the power to impact people.

I think what they're missing though, is it's not about a

cathartic experience on stage.

It's not about you releasing whatever you need to release from your personal

story, because a lot of people have some personal stories that are mental

health related, um, suicide prevention, things like that, that may or may not

be something that's going to turn into a signature speech for you because.

It doesn't speak to a struggle that you may or may be able to help people

with so signature speech is more of a business type presentation.

So there can be elements of your personal story in it but it

doesn't need to be based on you.

Because at the end of the day, you are not the hero of your story.

Your audience is the hero of your story.

And so understanding that difference will help elevate your current

signature speech if you have one.

Or help you create a signature speech that makes sense.

Which is why I provided you a free template on the signature speech template.

So you can kind of get started with what is your goal for your presentation.

If you don't know what your goal is.

You're definitely not going to hit the goal, but if you are just out

there to share your story, because it feels good for you and it's fun

and interesting, like I started off, great, but it may not be the signature

speech for your particular business.

And the template that she just mentioned, we'll make sure that there's

a link to that in the show notes.

So everyone can grab that and start filling out your signature speech outline.

So if you think about it as a business owner, I think we all, well, not all

of us, but I think most of us end up, we have a problem and we solve it.

Right?

And so then we realize, well, I could help other people solve that problem.

But it is interesting that it can be hard to shift it from you being the hero of

the story to the audience being the hero.

So, when you look at people that are doing that, what would be some

tips to make sure that they're.

Taking the focus off themselves.

And because you really want your audience to put themselves in your shoes and

think, wow, that person could do it.

I could do this too.

And I could see the value in it.

Wow.

I want to hire them to help me do it.

Right.

Absolutely.

And there are some techniques that you use when you're speaking to

make it easier for the audience.

So your job as a speaker is to make it as easy for your audience to follow

along, to see themselves in your story and to know what to do next.

If you're not addressing those things in your speech, then it's just a.

Hobby kind of speech.

It's you just practicing a speech.

So in terms of how you structure that, because I know there might be some

questions or thoughts around what does that look like, the template

can get you started with that.

But overall, I follow a loose kind of template of like

bubbles, mind mapping situation.

So when you're working with me as a client.

I help you mind map different stories based on the three main points or

audience takeaways that you're going to be sharing as part of your signature story.

Now the beauty of mind mapping different stories that lend themselves

to those points is you can customize the stories to your audience, but

your content remains the same.

So what is the purpose of that?

Well, you can memorize your speech because the content is the same.

The story you can shift because they're your stories or your client stories.

There are stories that are very near and dear to you.

So you can probably speak to those without memorizing it.

So you don't feel like a stilted scripted person on stage, just like.

Reciting words.

That's not the purpose of a speech.

And then in transition between your points, you always bring

it back to your audience.

So transitions could be engagement with the audience, asking a question,

having them speak to their, their neighbors, having them do breakout

sessions if you're virtual.

There are different ways you can engage the audience but at the end of the day

you have to make it clear to the audience.

This is how, or this is a way you could apply this particular idea to your

situation or ask them, because when people have their skin in the game and

they're really having a thing while you're speaking, they won't tune you out.

And they won't get bored either.

I love that.

I love that.

So we're talking about talking to associations and a lot of people, as you

mentioned earlier, when we were talking, don't always get paid as entrepreneurs

for their expertise, for speaking.

A lot of times they just do it because they want to spread the word because they

want to appear in places, but you have the key for getting paid for your expertise

and that is speaking to associations.

So what makes that a little bit different?

Then talking to a corporate audience or an entrepreneurial audience.

Yeah, how you approach associations is very different from a corporate audience

and or an entrepreneurial audience.

So I would say that overall, if you're speaking in entrepreneurial groups, it's

a speaking for lead generation type model.

Very few entrepreneurial groups will pay you to speak.

It's more of a visibility factor.

It's more of connection, networking, participating in a membership group.

If you're part of a group, companies and corporate will.

Typically pay you to come in to speak but it's harder to get your foot in

the door and you have to identify the right person which takes a little

more time now association markets are easier to find the decision makers.

Most of their information is published online so in terms of doing the

research, it's quite a bit easier.

Then it would be searching for other types of groups.

So if you don't already have business connections, if you don't know how to

get inside of companies, associations publish all of their information online.

And literally there's an association for every topic you could possibly think of.

So if you're really struggling with figuring out how your speech fits

into an association, believe me, there's an association for you.

And also understanding that association employees.

their employees.

So they usually have a paid group of core employees, but many of them are

volunteer based and volunteer run.

What does that mean?

It means you have to be more aggressive with reaching out to them.

They get a million emails and they have a day job on top of that.

They're not going to respond to emails the same way as a Company

person might because they are stuck in their nine to five and that's their

whole job is responding to emails.

So pick up your phone.

Be more aggressive.

Do voice messages on LinkedIn.

There are a variety of different ways you can make it a more personal touch.

And many of them have online applications or RFPs.

That you have to fill out.

So having all of your speaker marketing materials in one place, easy to copy and

paste, is going to benefit you immensely.

And this is something that I help folks with as well.

And you can use your speaker marketing materials for any market.

But it's really helpful for associations in particular, because those other

markets may or may not require you to fill out an application.

So just some things to be aware of.

Okay, for a fun tidbit, what is the, what is an association

that no one would ever think of?

When you think of, let's have a good laugh.

So when you think about obscure associations, what are some

that come to mind for you?

Oh my gosh, like I, I don't target these types of associations, but like Truckers

Association and Mechanics of America or things like that, those are types of

associations that you're like, Oh, okay.

Or the Knitting Association of Canada or something like that,

like these do come up, there are lots of cool groups out there.

Yep, I worked for the company in the American Filtration Services, which is all

about filtering water and other liquids.

So yeah, there is an association for everything.

Totally agree with that for everything.

And even interesting enough, if the association is large enough,

they may even have smaller groups within that association

that you could speak to as well.

So endless referral opportunities there.

And I think that when you and I 1st spoke, when we 1st connected, I think

you were talking about, and I'll choose the example of the Sarah, the Florida

bar association, but then there's also a national bar association.

And so you said, some people don't realize that you can go up

and down, meaning if you started at the local, you could move up.

But even if you started, if you got to speak at the national level,

you could still move down and speak to all the local associations.

Can you elaborate on that?

Because that, when you told me that, I was like, that's crazy.

Yeah, depending on where you start on your speaking journey, you may or may

not be a good fit for the national or international types of events,

because those are highly competitive.

You're dealing with professional speakers who are trying to be

the closing and ending keynote, which is typically the most.

So you may not feel comfortable commanding a larger stage in front of thousands of

people and traveling to that destination, because even if you get paid to speak,

you may or may not get paid for lodging and travel and things of that nature.

That's a negotiation that you do.

But yeah, if you want to start local, you can.

There are many groups that meet locally.

So even if you have your eye on the International Association, for example,

International Coaching Federation is an association I belong to.

I have spoken for them because it was a virtual thing as part of

International Coaching Week, but I'm still applying for the local events

and the regional events because they have a separate application process.

But they will always ask you, have you spoken for this association before?

At what level have you spoken?

spoken for them.

So if they know you've already spoken for them, that's a great thing.

And they'll be like, Oh, we got to fast track this application

because she has spoken for us.

And especially if you have testimonials that you can provide, or you can reference

the person who hired you or brought you on to speak, you're going to be that

much more attractive to that association.

So when you think about getting paid for speaking, you know, most,

I feel like most of our clients are looking basically for speaking

opportunities to promote what they do.

Right?

Right.

I feel like a lot of people start off on that track where they're promoting

what they do, but they eventually move into getting paid for speaking.

Yeah, that's a great question.

And I would say that there are people who build their entire

business off of free speaking.

I have several colleagues who do that where they say speak for

visibility and then sell afterwards.

They're like, Oh, I just booked 90, 000 worth of sales or from one event.

Or I just booked six figures from one launch.

That is certainly possible from free speaking.

The problem with that is you might be very salesy in your presentation.

And personally, I work with a lot of people who are more introverted.

We're more intuitive and that's just not a good fit for them.

They don't want to be up there doing all the heavy promos, talking

to people at the back of the room.

They want to talk to people, but they don't want to get exhausted by the

process of trying to sell constantly.

So those people who speak for free and then try to sell on the back end of that.

They can build their entire business off of that.

But I think if you can get paid on the front end and the back end, why

wouldn't you and feel that you're still.

Following your natural inclination and the way that you choose to do business.

For me personally, yes, you can sell from the stage, but that's not where

I want my business model to be.

I would like to, first of all, be recognized for the information

that I bring to the stage.

But also if people don't want to take that next step with me and I don't

have a sale from it, that's okay.

It's not a make it a break it for me.

It's okay.

I got paid here.

Maybe I didn't get paid there, but.

I started a conversation and I think when you focus on selling after you

speak, it's less of a conversation and it's more of a transaction and that's

just not how I operate with folks.

Yeah.

So that makes sense.

And I think that, do you feel like in some way that coming in as a

paid speaker gives you a higher level of authority and expertise?

And do you feel like that leads into more people wanting to buy from you?

Yes, I would 100 percent agree with that.

And sometimes when you're paid to speak, they forbid you

from promoting your services.

So that is something you have to weigh in the balance of, is this worth my time?

You know, depending on how much you charge to speak, if you get

paid 5, to speak, yeah, that might be good for your business model.

If you're trying to sell 97 courses and there's 10 people in the room, Yeah, it

might be more worth your time to get paid 5, 000 to show up and speak and not be

able to promote or sell after the event.

And that's another thing to be aware of is sometimes when you submit an RFP,

which is a request for a proposal or an application, sometimes they will

tell you right off the bat, we don't reimburse this, we don't reimburse that,

and you are not allowed to promote.

I spoke for the Florida Association of Society Executives.

And they did not pay me for that virtual opportunity, but they posted

the recording on their membership based platform that people can rewatch as

many times as they want for five years.

That is endless referral opportunities for me because I don't know someone 40

years from now might watch that and I set up a unique page for them to go to with a

free resource for them to connect with me.

So, thinking of how, how you want to show up what you want to receive from the event

and what speaking needs to do for you for your business and for your audience is the

most important questions you can answer.

Excuse my ignorance, because I just don't know anything about paid speaking.

So let's just say you do go to an event, and you're not getting paid to speak.

You are getting paid to speak, and you've been told not to promote.

Do people still reach out to you, or try to connect with you?

So do you find that, again, or do you feel like you speak,

and then you're whisked away?

So what has been your experience?

It depends on the event, and who's hiring you.

For example, if you are paid to show up to speak, But you can't promote anything.

What I tend to do and what works really well is to say, can I offer a free gift?

To the people there and that free gift can be whatever you have set up in your

business It could be your lead magnet.

It could be a book if you do have a book.

It's a really attractive marketing um thing to offer to an audience because

usually they'll buy Books or they'll include that as part of your fee to

show up to speak And that way you have something to invite them to so even if

you're not allowed to heavily promote a program like put order Forms on the

desk or put a link to an order form usually The event planner would like

for you to then offer something of value to the audience so they have something

that they can touch and implement.

You can even, depending on who you're approaching and what their models look

like, associations typically have multiple types of events throughout the year.

There might be the annual event, but there also might be a deep

dive mastermind kind of session.

It would behoove you as a paid speaker to say, okay, I can offer this.

I can do a deep dive with your people and go even deeper into

this and typically they would allow you to sell at that event.

So it's not about the one off presentation.

It's about how can you create that value over time for both

the association and for you.

I just find this so interesting and I think.

It has a lot to do with my fear of public speaking.

So you're doing great.

I can be on video all day long and Jimmy and I have done quite a few speaking

engagements and generally she does most of the speaking and I jump in with stories.

So it's a, it's an unusual dynamic that I don't think would work in a lot of places.

It says, but she loves it and my knees are knocking, you know, so it's always

an interesting thing to do together.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It's good fun.

And we have actually spoken in front of some associations and it's been

the national association, I think of professional organizers and now

it's a local group and then national speakers association and a couple

of local women's networking groups.

And we also spoke in front of some farmers, a farmers association.

That's right.

Marketing association for farmers.

Yeah.

I love NAPO.

I've spoken for them too.

NAPO is great.

Have you approached the International Association of

Administrative Professionals?

Awesome.

Wow.

So the next thing we want to talk about is for people who do have the opportunity to

sell from stage, how do they do it without coming off as being totally sleazy?

Because I've been to conferences and I've been to things where the

person who spoke was so amazing.

And you knew they were selling you, but you were like, running to the

back of the room because you wanted to buy what they had to offer.

And then you also set even there and people have been speaking and you're

thinking, oh, my gosh, this is just as horrible, cheesy sales speech.

What are your tips for making sure that you're not that sleazy

person trying to sell when.

It doesn't come off as authentic.

It doesn't come off as wanting to truly help the audience.

It's all about you.

Yeah.

Thank you for asking.

Cause I think we've all had that experience, right?

We've all been at the tail end of someone who is just pitching us and pitching us.

And we're like, why am I even in this room right now?

It's the most irritating thing in the world.

And nobody wants to be that speaker, right?

Even if you thought at one point you sounded that way, or someone made

a comment to you, I've had that.

That comment thrown at me too.

Oh, this sounds like a sales pitch.

It's happened to everyone.

So it's about that fine balance, but when it comes to selling from

the stage without annoying everyone, it's less about selling and more

about seeding is the word that I use.

And many professional speakers use.

So seeding is planting seeds.

So what does that mean?

It means that you tell them.

What your intention is at the beginning of your speech, you can actually

start seating within the first five minutes of your presentation examples

of that would look like later on in the course of this presentation.

I'll give those of you who wish to take a deep dive with this an

option for how you could do that.

So you're mentioning that something is coming up, but you're not like,

Oh, I'm I think here's your credit.

Give me your credit card.

You're not like punching them over the head with the idea that there's a

sale, but you're saying For those of you who want to take action, I will

have an opportunity for you to do that.

So you start early by telling them, this is not just me blowing air out here.

For those of you who are here for a reason, and you know why you're

here, and this topic really appeals to you, I will be offering something.

And then throughout the course of the presentation content that you're

providing, you give them specific examples that speak to their struggles.

So if you're mentioning, oh, in my work with my client, Rebecca, we worked,

she was at point A, and then after six months, she was at point B with me.

These results can be yours.

We'll talk about that in a moment.

So keep mentioning the fact you could even just mention or

see the name of your program.

Even if you can't sell your program, you can certainly mention your program.

I can't tell you how many authors I've worked with who forget to

talk about the title of their book.

They could go 60 minutes into a presentation and throw their book

up at the end of their presentation.

Oh, oh yeah, here's my book.

And the people are like, what's the title?

I can't see the title.

What is the book?

How do I get it?

So introduce the idea early that you're there to provide more than

just a 60 minute presentation to them.

We've all heard presentations.

We don't need more presentations.

We need more ways to get what we want out of business and life.

You know, you already do that as a speaker, but make sure you.

Clue people in because we're savvy.

We know there's going to be a sales pitch at the last five minutes, right?

Don't be that person who waits till the last five minutes of your presentation.

Cause people have already checked out.

They're on their phones.

They're doing other things.

Don't be that person.

Yeah.

I love that because, and I've even seen that with like seasoned

people who do like online webinars.

And the people who have done it and done it well, they will do exactly

what you just said, trickle it in.

And it just comes off so much more natural.

Hey, you know what?

If you want to learn more about this, I'm going to tell you about that at the end.

And that's fine.

I don't know.

There's you earn some respect doing that.

I feel like.

Yeah.

Because you're not blindsiding anyone.

You're not pretending to do something that you're.

If you just throw all the pitch at them at the end of the presentation, they're

like, that's the whole point of this.

That's all it was about, but you really want to clue them in and say.

There's more here, and if you want them more, I'm here.

I'm here to talk to you about it.

I love that.

I'm here to talk to you about that.

This has been so amazing, Jen.

And I, again, when we first spoke, I told you I'm terrified of public speaking.

But I, I do know so many people, and a lot of our clients have books,

and a lot of them are looking to do More speaking, and I think you

have just given us such incredible value today and so much information.

I'm really looking forward to them listening to this and I'm sure

they're going to reach out to you.

So we will put the link.

Like you said to that template for your signature speech and the show notes.

And why don't you just go and tell everyone your website or any other

way that they can connect with you?

Yes, you can connect with me at wait list.

Chronicles.

com.

It's not weight loss.

It's weightless chronicles.

com.

If you're on Instagram, I'm at Jen with two N's spin go.

Perfect.

We are so grateful you were here today.

I feel like I've learned so much.

Yeah.

It's been a pleasure being with you ladies, Kirsten and Jeannie.

I, you have such a great way that you serve people.

So it has been a pleasure being on your podcast and sharing more

about selling to associations.

If I would leave anything with your audience.

Just know that there's a stage for every person who's listening.

Even if you're scared or nervous, there is a stage for you and I

would love to help you find it.

Perfect, Jenny.

Thank you, Jen.

We so appreciate you.

Thank you.