Hey, you.

You're tuned in to the Skirts up show with Samantha and Melissa.

Join our mission to normalize failure, but still uncover the positives at every twist and turn.

Skirts up, but keep your panties on.

What's up?

Skirts up squad.

Did you just take my line?

I did.

It's Melissa and Samantha.

This is weird.

I love that you just threw me off with that.

That's so funny.

And your face, too.

You're like, I did that?

That's hilarious.

That was so good.

I actually expected to throw you off, but then when it did, that was extra funny, you know, it threw me.

Off in a good way because I was like, oh, she did.

She just did this.

That's right.

Her face was so cute.

Oh, my God.

Hi, guys.

So we are here to share.

What are we going to share today?

You want to go first for me?

Oh, our fails, actually.

Yeah, I'll.

I'll go because I. I feel.

I'm very proud at the beginning of this mall, I guess the beginning of last week.

Yeah, I had a complete meltdown.

I was like, oh, man.

I just.

I feel like we're getting to the point where it's time to dwindle down.

Skirts up.

I think that we're hitting a wall.

And I think that we had, you know, so much support in the beginning, and maybe we don't have that support now.

And I just was having that realization of, oh, maybe this isn't what.

You were scared it had run its course.

Yes.

And I wasn't ready for it to.

And I felt defeated and like.

Like a failure, I guess, because I've just poured so much of myself into this.

Well, I'm like, maybe it's time to have that conversation.

How do we.

What are we going to do?

Yeah.

And little did I know Melissa was, you know, wanting to.

Maybe we should have this conversation.

Well, I actually felt it from you.

Oh, yeah?

Yeah.

I thought maybe you were kind of getting to the end and were afraid to say it.

And I wanted to tell you this is before I found out, but I wanted to tell you that, look, if that's okay, if this is the end, that is okay.

Yeah.

Because we had fun while we did it, and all good things come to an end and we moved to bigger and better things.

I didn't want to have that conversation, but I was prepared to.

Like, I was about there.

I was really, really, really upset.

What's funny is that three days later, our numbers skyrocketed.

We have just endless people.

Guests wanting to be on the show.

And speak not Just out of the.

Blue, we got picked up by a small network pod match.

So thank you for that.

And that really has just.

We've gotten further out than we thought possible in such a small amount of time.

And it's just been really amazing and I'm so thankful.

And it just kind of like boosted our.

Our mood of like, oh, yeah, we are doing great stuff.

You guys are loving it.

And now we have even more listeners.

Yeah.

So it's pretty amazing because it's like we got into this because we wanted to make.

Have a reach and make a difference.

Right.

We didn't want to just like get on here and talk for no reason.

Talk to ourselves.

Yeah.

To our friends that we can pick up a phone.

Exactly.

Like, we wanted to talk to you guys.

And we were worried that we weren't reaching you.

And we were reminded that we are.

Yeah.

And it felt really good.

And yeah, all the sweet words and kind words have been really uplifting.

So thank you guys.

And we will be continuing.

And season four will be big and amazing.

We say that every year, but I.

Feel like this school is going to.

Because we're only getting better.

Yeah.

Yeah, we are.

Yeah.

We're learning a lot.

Not just about ourselves, but also about how to like, get.

Pull in the people that we want on here and how to talk to them.

There's so many different things that we.

Want to put out too.

It's just kind of all come together.

I agree.

But I say all that is because my fail was we have this great thing.

It got hard.

I was ready to quit and just give it up.

And then bam, beautifulness happened.

It did.

Because you didn't give up.

I know.

So I'm going to throw in one more thing.

So the pod match was your last ditch effort.

You said, I'm just gonna try this.

Yeah.

I really thought this isn't gonna do anything, but whatever, let's just try it.

So she basically reached out, did the thing to get us connected with them.

Actually, they reached out to us.

And then you did the thing.

Yeah.

And I. Yeah, I wasn't gonna fill out the.

The forms and stuff that they sent because I was like, this is just not gonna help, but.

Hello.

So basically you didn't give up.

That's.

That's the thing.

Like you.

That's our success and through the fail.

Yeah.

So thank you, Sam.

Well.

Okay.

You guys want to hear mine?

It's dumb and silly and cute and fun.

Yes.

Okay.

So you all know I went and did the boudoir photo shoot with One Sil.

Boudoir.

It's not my hair.

Fail.

Oh, tell me more.

I know Sam.

She's trying to micromanage what I talk about.

Shut up.

Okay, tell me more.

I'm going to.

Okay, tell me more.

Y'.

All.

Okay.

Something annoying.

I'm sorry.

I had too much coffee.

No, you're fine.

It's hilarious.

You're hilarious.

They're all laughing so hard.

Just kidding.

Okay, so.

Okay, so I went to once a boudoir.

And what we do is like, a lot of times, like, they'll.

They.

They always talk with you beforehand, like, what do you want out of this shoe?

What do you want it to look like?

And then they'll pull things to kind of, like, close.

Close, clothing wise.

And you can bring your own clothes for the shoot to kind of like, match that aesthetic.

Well, one of the things that.

And then sometimes they'll pull their own ideas, too.

They have a really cool.

What's it called?

Wardrobe.

No.

Well, they do.

They have a cool wardrobe.

No, Remember what they have?

They have different sets that they set up.

They have a set right now that they're calling Cloud 9.

Oh, yes.

And it just looks like you're laying on a bunch of white fluffy pillows, and there's, like sheer white curtains and stuff like that.

So David had the idea because I wanted to be pinup style.

And so I had bright red lipstick and I had, like, a fair face and my hair is dark.

And so he had the idea to put me in white and do Cloud 9.

Well, immediately I had a bad reaction to it, and I realized it's because white has such a huge.

Plays such a huge role in the Mormon Church.

It's just all about purity and sanctity and all of that.

And I kind of was like, I wanted to throw up a little in my mouth.

Wait, are you serious?

Like, it was literally a physical negative.

Like, oh, I don't want to do this.

We're getting out.

So he brought in this.

The thing I said, I don't want to wear that.

I'm not going to wear that.

And they're like, why?

And I was like.

And then I had to actually think about it.

And that's the worst.

When someone's like, well, why are you acting that like that?

Or where is that coming from?

And you don't know.

You have to think about it.

Well, yes, it can be the worst, but it actually was good because it made me kind of go, like, why?

I don't know why?

And then the more I thought about it and Then they left the room, they came back, and I was like, it's because of this.

And here's the thing.

I don't hate the Mormon Church.

I did.

There's some.

I. I think.

Is that.

Is resentment too strong of a word?

Like, maybe you resent.

Yeah, I. Yeah, you could say I could.

Yes.

You could say I resented.

There's some resentment there.

There's some trauma there.

There's just true religious trauma.

And that could be with any church.

So I'm not trying to just call out the Mormon Church because I also have friends and family who are still very active, and that's what they need in their life.

Okay.

Just had to put that disclaimer out there.

Every time I talk about the church, I feel like I need to.

That being said.

Yeah.

I did not wanna wear the white, and I didn't wanna feel like I was walking into the temple.

Wow.

And so David left the.

They came back.

I explained, you know what?

I think this is why I'm feeling that way.

And then he came back and he's like, what about if we put a red boa around your neck?

And I was like, ooh, interesting.

Interesting.

Like, you mean like a fuck you?

And he was like, yeah.

And I was like, okay, I could get on board with that.

And so we did it.

I'm not going to say they were my favorite photos.

I don't even know.

I think I kept one photo from that particular set.

But it was just.

What it made me realize is sometimes we just have to reframe things to fit the narrative that we're happy and comfortable with.

Yes.

And so it could have been a fail, but it was like trying something new.

And I think it was like, the exact example of why we talk about fails or things.

Because I tried something new that I wasn't really loving.

And then, you know what?

We were able to kind of reframe it.

Well, first was able to take the time to think about, like, why.

Oh, you're right.

That's exactly.

I mean, and then that leads into, like, okay, well, now here's the why.

How can we make this right?

You're right.

Because if you don't think about how you're feeling and why you're feeling the way you're feeling, you're just gonna have all these emotions that are like.

Right.

And then people are like, well, what's wrong with you?

And it's like, well, what's wrong with you?

Exactly.

No, I mean, really, like, why?

Like, why?

Why?

Let's get some introspection.

Going on.

And so I was able to do that because I had supportive people around me.

That is wild.

I know.

I. Wow.

I love that.

I thought you might like that one.

Yeah.

Because it's an interesting connection.

Like, they do take so much time to get to know you and, you know, and what you want and, you know, triggers.

So that nothing happens during a shoot.

Yep.

And it's kind of cool that.

Okay, a trigger did happen during the shoot, and then they also just rolled with it.

Yeah, exactly.

So that's actually really, really, really cool of David and Jill and, you know, not cool that you went through that, but it's cool.

It was cool.

It was able to.

It was able to kind of see, like.

Yeah.

So anyways, it's interesting, but yeah, getting in touch with our feelings and being introspective and being able to understand why we're feeling what we're feeling and how we can work with it.

I thought that was all very interesting.

Well, speaking of feelings, today we're doing a second episode with Aminah.

You guys had a very strong connection with her when we had her on our sec.

First season.

Our first season.

Holy smokes.

Our first season.

And she taught us about lucid dreaming and walked us through what dreams can mean and how we can use our dreams to improve ourselves and work on parts of our lives that we need it.

And I was going through this period, period where this one thing kept popping up in my dreams and I just really couldn't make sense of it.

And some of you had more questions revolving around dreams.

And so we had her back on.

And this is just another deep conversation, Deep dive of dreams.

Truth is, we could have her on again.

Oh, yeah.

We could talk forever.

We might.

We might have some favorite reoccurring guests like Melissa Walker.

Amina.

Oh, Amina, are we going to start mentioning you every episode like Melissa Walker?

Maybe we might.

That's where we are.

We pretty much love you.

So.

Yeah.

So everybody enjoy.

And it's Amina again from the dream world.

Today we have with us Amina.

She joined us in season one and talked and taught us about lucid dreaming and how we could basically train ourselves to experience.

Experienced that.

I have yet to do that.

And she is back on to clarify on some questions that you guys had.

And plus, we want to catch up with her.

Absolutely.

And don't forget, we found her because she has her own podcast.

Yes.

Called the Dream World with.

With Amina.

Or is it just the dream World?

Yeah, just the Dream World podcast.

Yeah, it's pretty cool.

Guys, so, okay, let's.

Let's catch up.

Let's do it.

What's going on?

Yeah.

I'm so excited.

Good.

Good to see you guys again.

It's been like about a year.

Maybe a lot has happened.

Good things.

Still doing the dream stuff.

Dream coaching, podcasting, you know, conferences for dream research, which I may have talked about, and.

Yeah, workshops and things like that.

I just love.

Yeah.

Continuing to teach people how to lucid dreams and understand their dreams in general.

Yeah.

So I remember.

And this has been a while, but, like, I want to say, you traveled to Europe for a conference.

I did, yeah.

Last June.

I was in the Netherlands.

They have a conference there every couple years.

Usually it's in the States, but there is a lot of dream researchers in Europe as well, so they kind of alternate.

This year, it's actually online, which is going to make it more accessible to people that they don't have to travel.

So that's great, right?

That is really nice, actually.

So did you guys do anything?

What did you guys learn?

Or what was the most exciting thing?

Yeah, so just for those that don't know, it's called the International association for the Study of Dreams.

It's like one of the oldest, most established dream research organizations.

We connect with all these researchers and scientists, and everything from the science, the art, and the spirituality kind of come together to just kind of show the latest stuff.

I.

At the Netherlands conference last year, I did a workshop for lucid dreaming.

So every morning I had a group of people come together and we talked about our experiences.

It was some beginners, some ex, you know, experienced lucid dreamers.

So it was kind of a good mix, and we all just learned from each other.

There were some awesome presentations.

One of my favorites was one about how animals dream and how their dreaming process is very similar to ours.

Yeah, animals, okay.

Not just cats and dogs either.

Like, not just cats and dogs, but like, mice, octopus, even fish.

Like, pretty much every animal.

And how are these fish?

Because I feel like you always hear studies that, like, oh, yeah, elephants and octopus and mice and rats, they're so smart.

And fish, they don't have feelings, they're so dumb.

Like, that's just like, what you hear.

But how are they studying this?

Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure exactly which animals that this specific study worked on, but some people are definitely starting to look into it.

Just studying animals brains while they sleep.

And, you know, they found that they have similar purposes for dreaming as we do.

You know, processing daily emotions, consolidating memories, planning out for the future.

Like one study with rats.

The rats would sleep on it and plan out the maze and then they would be able to do the maze better and things like that.

So very similar to our purpose.

And.

Yeah.

Although it's not proven for sure, I'm pretty sure that some animals even have the capability to lucid dream as well.

Wow.

And of course, they can't, like, tell us, like, oh, yeah, I had a dream.

Yeah, exactly.

Yeah.

But, you know, you see your dog running.

My dog.

Yeah, that's true.

I was gonna say if my dog Waverly was still alive, she could tell me.

Please talk.

But what?

No, that would be interesting because there are the animal.

Psychic animal communicators.

Yeah.

And so I wonder if we could like.

If there's like a reputable one that could kind of speak on that.

Absolutely.

That would be kind of interesting.

I got you.

I'll get us one.

Yeah, I love that.

Thanks for sharing.

Yeah.

And that was just one of the presentations that I remember that stuck to me.

There were so many different things, so many different studies that have been done.

And it's not just about lucid dreaming.

It's about dream analysis.

It's about different kinds of dreams.

You know, the.

The metaphysical stuff and the stuff that we have more material data for.

So it was a really fun, really awesome conference.

That's amazing.

That was one of the things that I started wondering.

I actually did not realize when we met you the first time, that lucid dreaming kind of fell onto the meta.

Metaphysical.

Metaphysical side of things until I was talking kind of.

What?

Yeah, no, go ahead, go ahead.

What's your feelings on that?

Well, so it is and it isn't, you know, because back in the day, maybe 10, 20 years ago, it wasn't as well understood.

But today, I mean, we have scientific proof for lucid dreaming.

We've studied brains in the lab while people have been lucid dreaming.

So we know the, you know, the brainwave activity, the.

The physiological markers of what's going on while we're lucid.

So lucid dreaming is pretty scientifically established as a real thing.

You know, there are still some people that have never experienced it.

So maybe they're like, I don't know.

I can't really understand the concept.

But it's scientifically a fact.

It's a thing.

There are more anomalous types of dreams that are more metaphysical, such as, like, shared dreaming and dream telepathy, communications, which I also believe.

Okay.

And the thing with lucid dreaming is it can get very spiritual and Metaphysical like you can have these awesome spiritual growth experiences and transformative dreams.

So it does get a little spiritual.

But having a lucid dream itself, like we don't have any doubt about that, if that makes sense.

I guess it was some of the feedback that I had gotten personally is that we had some people stop following us because their religious beliefs found that lucid dreaming was basically a form of.

Against the Bible.

And so I was like, wow, I really had no idea.

I'm sorry, I would love to talk on this actually because I.

Come please.

Yeah, I, I have nothing against religions or anything.

You know, I'm open to everybody but I understand that this is a common narrative that a lot of people are scared of lucid dreaming if they don't understand it.

But you know, if we're speaking on like Christianity for example or even other religions, dreams are spoken in the Bible multiple, multiple over 200 times.

And lucid dreaming as well.

People get visions from God in their lucid dreams and like it's in the Bible a lot of times but a lot of them in their ways.

Exactly.

Prophets and different, different types of dreams.

Joseph was a dream interpreter, very pronounced one for the Egyptian pharaoh and things like that.

He was so yeah, some people are just very close minded.

They don't understand, they don't understand that there's more out there, you know.

But lucid dreaming is natural.

And so that's why I said about, you know, it's scientifically proven because it's a natural thing.

It's our birthright, you know, it's our God given right if you want to get spiritual with it.

But people, people report having positive experiences from this type of stuff and like sure bad dreams can happen but I don't know, I guess if you're a religious person maybe you should think of it in a way that it's just something that's going to bring you closer to your spiritual journey.

That's how I would say it too.

I love that because I.

So I was really confused because I grew up in a super religious like kind of maybe sheltered, you could say household.

Definitely sheltered according to Sam.

But anyway I was thinking, wait, how is lucid dreaming against someone's religion?

Oh yeah, because you were shocked when I brought that up.

I was so shocked because I came from like again religious.

But I could.

It's Christianity and I would have said like wait a minute, but what's the difference between like trying to get in touch with yourself and like, and your own dreams and like why can't you believe that that's maybe even God talking to you.

I just don't understand.

It would be.

So what makes it so easy to rationalize that?

Like, oh, no, I'm just opening myself up to, like, let the spirit talk to me and.

But yeah, no, that's interesting.

So I like and think the thing that you said that kind of stuck out to me was they don't understand it.

And I think things that people don't understand can be scary, for sure.

And you literally said exactly what I have, like, tried to explain to people.

So it makes me feel a little more validated because I don't know the Bible very well.

But, like, literally I know that there's prophets.

And what's the difference between a prophet telling you the future by dreams?

Like, yeah, and I forgot that Joseph actually, that's how he got out of his imprisonment was with the Pharaoh.

Like, he interpreted the dream.

You're right.

I totally forgot about that.

Yeah.

Dreams have been around for eons, literally.

So it's, it's right.

And how are you supposed to, like, not.

Yeah, I think you're right.

And then, like, how.

My guess what I was going to say was how do you control yourself to not dream?

I just don't understand.

You can.

I mean, it's definitely a practice and I think that's why a lot of people are scared.

Because dream, dream work practices in general give a lot of the responsibility to, to the individual.

Right.

You know, you're trusting in yourself.

You're guiding yourself through the universe so you can experience positive things, negative things, like you're in charge, really.

So maybe that's kind of scary for some people.

But if somebody has a lot of dreams that they're maybe haunted by or stressed out by, or they don't feel like they're getting well, well enough rest.

There's a lot of things you can do to kind of mediate that to either shift your dream content to more positive dream content by really diving into that scary dream content, which, again, not a lot of people want to do.

Not a lot of people want to acknowledge the dreams in order to transform them.

And you can also set the intention for restful dreamless sleep, which some people do.

So there's, there's definitely ways.

But I always encourage people to start writing down your dreams and figure out what are they trying to tell you?

Like, what is your subconscious, you know, repeating to itself over and over that you need to address or heal or work on or whatever it is?

There's always a lesson there with dreams, even nightmares, they have healing gifts.

Yeah, I would say so.

You know how we always have a fail at the beginning of our episodes?

That's my fail.

Meeting with you again today and remembering like, shoot.

I really, really wanted to do a dream journal and I never even started it in this whole last year.

I actually started a voice journal.

Really?

Uh huh.

Tell us more.

Yeah, it's just like a voice.

So we both have been saying that we wanted to journal.

I wanted to journal my normal life.

Plus I wanted to start journaling dreams and see if I can like lead into a lucid dream.

And I was like, okay, well the problem is when I start physically writing in a journal, my brain goes, oh, that sentence doesn't make sense.

Oh, how can we rephrase that to sound better?

And like, then I'm.

This is pointless.

Why am I spending two hours writing about a fucking dream?

And so then I was like, there's gotta be a voice recorder.

And so my voice recorder, I just record what I'm saying.

Like I'm talking to you guys right now.

I like that.

And then I don't have to be like, oh, that doesn't.

I shouldn't write that.

Like, right, I do that too.

It's a great method.

Yeah.

And it transcribes it for you too, so.

Yeah, you're right.

Okay.

Is there an app that you use or you just use your.

No, it's an app.

Your notes at.

What's your.

Oh, what is that?

I'll have to look it up.

I can link it, definitely.

That's interesting.

I'm gonna write that down so we.

Don'T forget now before we move on to like, our next part of what we have for today, I was wondering.

This just made me kind of think.

Do you have any of these debates with other guests on your podcast about religion aspect or.

I have before.

Yeah.

I mean, I talk about it a lot online, you know, usually on social media, comment sections and stuff like that.

I see it a lot.

People are very scared or stuck in their ways.

And I never try to change people's beliefs or tell them to think what I think.

But you know, I just encourage people to explore and look into their dreams and be open minded to it.

And I, you know, of course I'm always going to bring the facts and the science so that people know it's safe.

You know, I'm not telling you to do anything crazy out here, but yeah, and on my podcast as well, I talk about it a lot.

I try to bring experts from different perspectives.

You know, the science, the Art, the spirituality, all the different traditions.

And, you know, not just Western ways to look at dreams.

There's so many different ways.

You're right.

It's got to have a lot of cultural implications and, like, from different communities and interesting.

A lot of.

Maybe you could share with us something.

Yeah, I mean, a lot of certain societies and cultures have valued dreams more than the Western world.

Like the Australians, Aboriginals, it was a huge part of their culture and a lot of African traditions and different parts of Asia and Europe.

The Eastern world has a long, long history of dream work and lucid dreaming that dates back to past ancient Egypt and Aristotle even.

So, you know, it's been around forever.

And obviously I can't speak on any specific traditions that I don't necessarily practice, but I just encourage people to really look and do research on all the different ways to look at dreams because, you know, science might tell you, like, oh, lucid dream.

And, you know, it's these neurons firing and this is what's happening in the brain.

And that's all cool and all, but there's other traditions that apply different meanings to dreams than one might, you know, or different universal symbols.

Dream analysis and also, like, studying other people's.

Studying other people's cultures and stuff also gives us more of a tolerance.

And not even just tolerance.

That's a very.

It's not strong enough of a word, but it makes us kind of appreciate each other more, I think.

So I think that's a great idea.

Like, get in there and study.

Because when you said Australian, it made me think, oh, wait, does that have to do with the walkabouts and finding yourself and the lucid dreaming?

So I thought, oh, yeah, yeah, this is cool.

I'm gonna go look that up.

But, yeah, I want to go into what your.

Yeah.

Question is.

What you do?

Yes, yes, I do.

Because it's.

It was really fascinating.

And yeah, I'm curious.

So that.

Okay, so I guess we're going to switch gears just a tiny bit then.

I apologize.

But I was looking online and there's somebody called Daniel Love who seems like he's been, like, pretty big in the lucid dreaming world.

And you've probably heard of him, I guess.

Yeah, yeah, I've heard of him.

He's pretty popular on YouTube.

Okay.

So basically he said he was taking questions and answers from people, and somebody said, how often do you lucid dream?

And he said, well, you know, I've been doing it for 40 years.

I can do it whenever I want.

And then he added on, like, another sentence.

And he ended with that in the paragraph and went on to something else.

And I was so confused because he said quality is better than quality over quantity is better for sure.

Which, that I get that.

But what did.

What he said next was it's better to have one logical dream than a hundred non logical dreams.

And I was like, what makes it logical or not logical?

I did not understand what that meant at all.

Interesting.

And then I see your eyes looking up a little like maybe I threw you for a loop.

I'm trying to figure out what he means by that.

I wasn't in the live or whatever it was, so I don't know the full context of what he meant by that.

Maybe there was explanation that I'm not getting, but just what I think he may mean.

So some dreams are more logical than others.

I wouldn't say one is better.

Better than the other though.

But like whether they're lucid or not, some dreams make sense.

Like I'm at my job and normal things going on, like, you know, very realistic, I guess, to my life, you know.

Typical.

Yeah, Something I would do.

But then there are dreams that are not logical, you know, like the storyline doesn't add up and this is not out of place.

Like I don't really know this person.

My dad is actually my sister and whatever, you know, like there's no.

It doesn't really make sense.

And those can be frustrating sometimes because it's hard to really not only remember them but kind of bring meaning to them.

But I honestly wouldn't say that one is better than the other because sometimes I'll be lucid and things will just be out of place and chaos and it won't make sense and I just go with it.

I just observe and I just take the dream for what it is, you know.

So maybe he meant that logical dreams are easier to understand.

I don't really know what he means by logical.

I could be totally wrong and that's not what he meant at all.

Yeah, it blew my mind because I was thinking, well, if it's not logical and actually you're blowing my mind because in my.

I've always thought lucid dreaming kind of brings logic.

Lucidly dreaming brings the logic.

And so it sounds like no, yeah, okay.

Because I just mean you are aware.

Yeah, lucid just means I know that I'm dreaming.

So you could be in an apocalyptic near Neo futuristic city and you know that you're dreaming, you know, or think of the weirdest dream you've ever had.

You could just be in There knowing that it's a dream, and you're like, this is crazy.

I'm in some weird simulation, but let's rock with it, you know?

So, yeah, that's okay.

Yeah, thank you.

And that makes sense, though, that maybe he's just talking about the meaning that could come from it, you know, that.

Reminds me that you were.

I saw on social media that you participated not too long ago in a study where you were in a lab and had the monitors hooked up and that you and I remember you were recording what lucid dreams you were having in the.

In the study.

Oh, yeah.

Tell us of what were you trying.

To figure out in that study?

So, yeah, I was a participant in that study.

It was done in Northwestern University.

There is a huge lab of dream researchers there.

Shout out to them.

They're awesome.

And I participated.

So I went out there to Chicago, and what they were looking for in this particular study was about how sounds are incorporated into our dreams.

So, you know how sometimes you can hear your alarm or your kid crying or something, and it makes its way into your dream sometimes.

So that's kind of what they were studying.

And they've done a lot of studies.

But I went into the lab, they hooked me up with, like, EEG monitors and all these different, like, brainwave sensors and things, and I spent a night there.

And every time I would have a dream, I would report immediately, like, just speaking it out loud, and they would record it.

They put me in this little sleep chamber.

It was funny, but it was cool.

I did get lucid in the lab, which I was worried about because.

Just because I've been Lucid dreaming for 40.

I'm not 40.

I'm not that old.

20 years.

I was thinking.

I used.

Daniel said 40.

I know I said that about Daniel Love.

That doesn't necessarily mean I can do it on command.

Like.

Like, yes.

I have a pretty good idea of, like, when I'll get lucid, but it's not 100% right?

So I had a thought of, like, oh, if I don't get lucid in the lab, like, that would be kind of sad.

But, like, it's fine.

It's normal, you know?

But luckily I did.

I had some lucid dreams in the lab.

And what's cool is, you know what they do when they're doing this type of research is I'm asleep, right?

So I'm in a lucid dream, and they sent me signals, and I heard the sounds from within the dream, and I was like, oh, perfect.

This is the signal.

So What I did was I go left, right, with my eye, like, left, right, left, right.

That's the agreed upon signal.

And then the EEG readers can see when I did that, like, okay, her eyes went left, right, left, right.

It did the little scale or whatever it was.

And physical eyes.

Yeah, my actual eyes match with what I do in stream.

You can communicate with these with muscle twitches and certain things.

Even Morse code.

It's been done.

You know, you Morse code with your eyes or whatever.

So then the experimental.

But your eyes were closed.

But they can kind of just tell.

Like, where they're flicking together.

Because they put the brain sensors on my head, so every time I even moved one little muscle on my face.

Every muscle on my face, they can read it while asleep.

So if I move it in a dream, it'll usually move in waking life, and they can see it, so they sent the signal.

Then when they saw that I was in REM sleep, which is when most of lucid dreams happen, they were like, okay, she's in rem.

Send her the signal.

I was in a dream.

I received the signal.

I was like, oh, cool, it worked.

I sent a signal back.

They saw the signal from the lab while I was still sleeping, and they confirmed, okay, she's lucid.

Because we just saw the signal on the data chart that she gave us.

So we basically did that a few times.

That had to be the coolest thing when you woke up, like, yeah, I did it.

I have a couple questions, if you don't mind.

Yeah, yeah, I know, right?

Because it is.

I went to.

Oh, actually, it reminds me of the other day when I did a past life regression.

Yes.

And I was so scared because I was like, what if I'm not gonna, like, get into the meditation correctly?

So I know that feeling.

But I was gonna say, so they sent sounds in, and then you would say, hey, I'm hearing the sound.

Are they.

Were they just trying to see if you would hear it, or are they trying to see if you're gonna interpret it in a different way in your dream?

Oh, that's like.

What if you.

What if something happened in your dream?

Like, hey, this is what I'm dreaming.

And you didn't actually hear this or think you heard the sound, but then what you're describing, they're like, oh, that matches the sound we just played.

She walked into the shop and heard the shop bell.

Exactly.

I think maybe both.

I don't know the exact, like, thing of the study because I was just a participant, not a researcher, but I do Know that they wanted to see if I could identify the sound.

So there were different sounds, and I would have to give a different signal pattern for each different sound.

So they wanted to confirm that I heard the correct sound.

And I think they also wanted to know how it made its way into the dream.

So, for example, like, one of the dreams that I had in the lab, like, I heard the sound.

It was like a chicken sound, but I also saw, like, a bunch of chickens on the wall.

So it's funny, like, I didn't necessarily hear the sound, but my brain interpreted it to put the images.

And I.

So I kind of still told them that that's what I saw, not even knowing if it was relevant or not.

And then I even heard in my dream, in the dream, the experimenter was telling me, like, okay, you don't have to do the signals anymore.

Like, we got what we needed.

But he wasn't actually saying that it was like, a part of the dream.

The dream was just, like, making up its own narrative.

Right.

Because it's going to do that anyways.

And so I remember being close and thinking, like, I was like, was that real or was that part of the dream?

I don't know.

I'm in the dream.

And then I kept telling myself, like, pep talking.

Myself, like, no, he told you what it is.

Do what you know you're supposed to do.

Like, this is the dream trying to trick you.

And I really had a moment there where I was, like, about to lose lucidity because I didn't know.

And then obviously, I woke up and I told him, like, you.

You told me to not do it.

Like, did you really say that?

He was like, no, that was part of the dream.

I didn't say that.

Wow.

So funny.

So I guess you.

So you can lose lucidity if you start over and analyzing.

Yeah, in a way, yeah.

Maybe not overanalyzing, but if you get too immersed in the dream narrative, you're going to forget that you were dreaming and be like, oh, okay, this is actually real life.

I guess I am awake.

I guess it's time to wake.

I was in the lab in the dream.

So it was confusing to know, is this life or is this.

I remember you saying that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Wow.

It was hard to tell.

That is so cool.

I love it.

Yeah.

I'm like, I'm glad we got to hear that.

Did you end up doing an episode on your podcast right after it talking about it, or was that kind of like, oh, no, this is for their.

Research, and I want to And I should.

Honestly, I didn't make a full episode on that specifically.

I just talked about it with different people on different episodes.

And maybe I would take that video I posted on social media because it's like a 10 minute video and maybe I'll just post that.

Yeah, yeah.

Because I would love to leave.

I was trying.

Yeah, I was trying to figure out.

I was trying to figure out.

I'm not, I'm not tech savvy, nor am I social media savvy, but I was trying to figure out how to share that from you onto our page so that people could see and like go to your page.

And I could not figure it out.

So I was like, I can help you.

I can send you the video if you want to post it.

Savvy.

But.

Oh, that's nice.

Yeah.

Or you can share the social link, whatever works.

Yeah, I also posted it on YouTube if that's easier.

If you want to just post the.

YouTube, I probably would.

What's your YouTube channel?

The dream World podcast.

Yes.

I keep it pretty consistent.

Okay.

Because sometimes you have to like, you can't get the name you want.

No, I know.

Yeah, yeah.

That video that you watched, it should be on there.

My experience with.

Here, I'll send you the link if I have a chat here.

Is there a chat here?

Yeah.

So it might be easier to share YouTube than Instagram or TikTok link.

Yeah, yeah.

I'm just not.

Not social media savvy yet.

Oh, yeah, but you're not afraid of learning.

No, and that's the thing.

So.

Okay, Sam, I wanted to bring up something that you were telling me is we had some people reach out to us and she's, she says she's not social media savvy, but she's the one that runs our social media.

And.

But yeah, so like you.

We had some people reach out to us, apparently.

What was interesting is that some people were reaching out and they're like, hey, do you like, from the conversation that you had with Amina, you guys kind of touched on this, but what about when you're seeing reoccurring symbols?

And so I was like, oh, that's a good question.

And then what's funny is that then I started realizing there is a very specific symbol that I was seeing in every dream, every other dream.

And I was like, oh, that's actually a really interesting question.

And I know that our listeners like examples.

So for me, I was just going.

To say, tell us the story.

What did you dream?

So for me, orcas are showing up in every dream, really?

Oh.

Like, in what way?

Oh, anyway, yeah, it could be.

It could be that we're in the ocean and I'm.

I'm, like, apprehensive about the orca, but then whoever I'm with is just like, oh, let's just dive in and swim.

It could.

One of them that was really interesting was Nora.

So my toddler was standing on the edge of the water.

So she was standing on the land looking over the water, and a baby orca swam up to her.

And I was, like, freaking out, trying to pull Nora back, but the orca and Nora, like, touched noses, and then, like, I.

That was it.

So stinking magic.

And they just pop up in every dream.

And I'm like, why?

This is so weird.

Okay, well, let's do a little exercise for it.

There's so many different ways to, like, dive into recurring dreams, so we can use these orcas as an example.

And we may have done this a little bit in the other episode.

I can't remember, but we did it a little bit.

Yeah.

So.

Funny part, though.

Let's do it again.

Yeah.

So tell me a little bit about, like, what are orcas to you?

Like, if I was an alien from another planet and I have no idea what an orca is, like, how would you describe that to me?

Me, orcas, I am obsessed with whales.

Love whales.

I travel to literally observe them and swim with them.

But orcas is actually the one whale that I do not want to see.

I don't.

Definitely don't want to swim with it, because I. I don't.

I love humpback whales and orcas.

They obviously have a very distinctive hunting pattern to separate the babies from the moms, and they feast on the babies.

And.

And I just.

I have humpback whales of humpback whales.

Yeah.

And so I just.

Orcas and, you know, they're flipping boats, they're an enemy.

Because you're team humpback.

Yeah.

Okay.

Okay.

So you don't, like, love them necessarily, although you love.

I don't love killer whales.

They're beautiful, but I don't.

They're not my favorite.

Okay, fair.

And, you see, this is why it's very important to, like, really dive into each symbol, like, whatever the recurring symbol is, because you could Google something online that says, oh, dreaming of orca means whatever you need to touch you or your emotions or whatever.

I just made that up.

Like, I don't know.

But.

And it may or may not resonate with you because somebody might love orcas and they Might research orcas for a living.

And then here you have, you know, you.

When you're like, ah, they're all right, you know, so like it might mean something totally different for you, you know what I mean?

And then usually yeah.

And depending of course on the dream, like, are they nice in all the dreams?

Do you feel the same in all the dreams?

It's kind of like you were asking like, what, you know, what do they do in the dreams?

Is it always the same?

Are they big, are they little?

Like, you know, what are the physical descriptions of it?

And I could go on for like an hour asking you to describe all the different elements just to see what comes up.

It's not because it means something specific, but it's because I want to see from your own words, from the dreamer's words, what you're saying, you know, so just.

I thought it was interesting.

Yeah, I remember you.

I was just gonna start real quick.

I just remember how you definitely said when you're trying to like help somebody figure out what they're dreaming, you don't wanna lead them.

And so I remember that.

And so when you're asking these questions, you're not leading them, you're just trying understand them.

Exactly.

You don't want to put your projections onto them.

You want to see what comes up naturally.

Dreamer.

And you said in your own words, the orcas are something you don't want to see, you know, and this is just one thing you said.

But I would ask a follow up question then of like, was there anything in your life that you don't want to see or that you see as the enemy, even though maybe you usually like it or something like that, I don't know, may or may not resonate.

But those are kind of questions you can start to ask and start to pair it with your life and that dream journal.

I'm glad you've been doing it because that'll definitely help.

And then you can see.

How often do the orphas show up?

Do they show up up on a certain day?

Do they show up when you're feeling a certain way?

You know, you can start to like notice these patterns and you're really just like studying it for yourself.

And, and it's not about getting a solid answer, it's just about learning like what the dream's trying to tell you and maybe it'll make sense later on.

So you don't think that the orcas every time they show up have the same meaning, the same?

It may or it may not.

You know, it could be kind of pointing you towards something, you know, it's really hard to say, you know, I can't tell you for sure, but I do think that if you continue to write down your dreams and every time you do see an orca, you know, kind of look at, kind of compare it to the other orca dreams and see the similarities and differences.

And the other thing I wanted to talk about is lucid dreaming is really, really great when you have recurring dreams.

Because what you can do is now, you know, you see an orca often in your dreams.

Let's say twice a week, you dream of an orca.

I don't know.

You know that every time you see an orca, you will be dreaming because I don't know how often you see orcas in real life.

Probably not very often.

So train your brain.

Every time I see an orca, I will know that I'm dreaming.

I will check, do a reality check, a dream check, or whatever recurring symbol it is, you can use it to your advantage to lucid dream.

So, like, I train myself.

Yeah.

Every time I think of orcas or I see a fish or I see the ocean or something related to orcas, I'm going to train my brain to think, oh, maybe I'm dreaming.

What's going to happen is next time you have your orca dream, you're going to already have that habit.

Oh, maybe I'm dreaming and it might feel kind of stupid.

Like, nah, I'm not dreaming.

Until you look at the orca and something crazy happens and you're like, I'm dreaming.

Thanks, orca.

So that's so cool.

It can be your, like, little dream.

Yeah, it could be your trigger.

Yeah.

Well, okay.

Yeah.

And what's funny is, so I was telling my mom, I was like, it's starting to really bother me.

Like, these orcas are popping up in, like, every dream and it's just so weird.

And, you know, I don't have a personal meaning of them for me.

And then when I was looking up, of course, like, all the different interpretations of all on all the different types of sites, nothing was resonating with me until there was one that said that orcas could be your totem animal, I think is what it was.

And so then I started looking into totems and trying to figure out what that meant.

And so basically, like, orcas could be like your messenger.

And then also it could mean that someone in your life is going through a personal conflict or struggle and that you need to, like, maybe reach out to them and like, you know, help them out a little bit.

And as I was saying that, my mom was like, oh, well, orcas had always been my favorite animal growing up.

And I was like, oh, okay.

I didn't.

I actually didn't know that.

And I was like, well, is everything okay?

And she goes, meh.

Told me that, like, meh, things are not amazing.

Yeah.

Maybe you knew it on a subconscious level.

No clue.

Wow, that's interesting.

Yeah.

Orcas are very connected to their families, too.

I feel like whales in general.

Right.

I don't know.

Maybe I'm wrong about that, but.

No, no, you're right.

Yeah.

Sorts of animals.

Yeah.

No, that's really interesting that you found that connection.

And like I said, there may be more to it.

There may not be, but, like, keeping a dream journal is a cool way to just keep track of it.

And when you go to sleep tonight or every night for the rest of the month, you know, just have a little thought in your brain.

If I see an orca, I will know that I'm dreaming.

Like, it's a really easy trigger for you.

Love it.

I like that.

I wanted to point out something that.

Well, actually, I had two things going on in my mind.

Let me do this one first, because it's kind of dedicated towards Sam.

So when you were talking and telling the dream, I was thinking, oh, I wonder if it's this.

And in my mind, this is what I was going to ask you.

Do you have something in your life that you're kind of hesitant about that you're a little bit scared of that maybe kind of is starting to, like, maybe you're finding out is not as bad as it really could be.

I mean, that's not a bad question because I was explaining how, like, I was always apprehensive.

I'm always apprehensive about the orcas, but whoever I'm with or, you know, Nora is always like, oh, whale, jump in.

It's fine.

I.

Nothing comes up.

I feel like I was trying to make that narrative fit when I was trying to process it myself, but I couldn't exactly come up with something that I felt like, made sense.

Fair.

Because that's where I was thinking, like, oh, once you kept talking, I thought, wow, this is interesting because, Aminah, you're so good at asking the right questions and not leading people.

And I was thinking, yeah, because it could mean so many different things.

But, you know, you like, right?

The dreamer knows themselves best.

Right.

And I kind of.

That's what it made me think.

I want to say you said that in our last.

Yeah, our last meeting.

Definitely.

Yeah, definitely.

I. I can't tell you what it means, but I know that deep down in there, like, there's.

There's some sort of meaning, or maybe there's not, and either way it's okay.

But what was I gonna say?

I forgot.

Oh, well, it'll come back.

Yeah.

I'm like a concrete person.

Like, I feel like there has to be a meaning and I need to figure it out.

That's actually what I was thinking.

I was gonna say, well, if you feel like there's a meaning, there's probably a meaning.

That's what.

When I was.

Okay, back to the past life regression thing.

I know it's not the same, but I was in a meditative state and I was sharing out loud what I was seeing and feeling as she guided me into a past life.

And one of the things was I was like, I don't know.

I can't tell if I'm.

I don't know if this is what I'm thinking or if this is what it means, but it keeps popping into my head, but I don't really want it to mean this.

And she was basically like, well, if you feel like it means something, it probably means something.

And you have to just trust your gut.

And I'm wondering if you can apply that to lucid dreaming.

Definitely.

Yeah.

Dream work is, in general, is just a very intuitive thing.

It's really about you and your subconscious and that, like, dialogue between you and your inner self.

And nobody knows you better than you, you know?

So I definitely think there's a lot of intuition with it.

Looking up meanings and things can definitely help.

But like you said, you.

You'll know if you feel it or not.

You don't have to force something to resonate.

But, yeah, just keep looking into it, like, you know, start asking yourself, like, what are the qualities of these whales?

Like, what the other characters in the dream are doing?

Kind of like we've been talking about and.

And just like everything you can just to, like, build that free associative thinking.

Like, it's okay if all these questions don't necessarily have answers, but over time, sometimes a dream can make sense later on.

Well, I'll let you guys know when it finally clicks because it's been.

It's been bothering me.

And so I just thought it was really interesting when someone was like, oh, I'm seeing.

I think their example was, like, owls or something.

And all the time.

And then I was like, oh, I'm seeing.

Or goes bothering you because they're making you uncomfortable in the dream or because you don't know what it means.

Because I don't know what it means.

And you know me.

I need to know why.

Yeah, well, maybe you need an aquarium trip and go see some.

Some orca whales.

Let's go.

I love the aquarium.

It's literally my favorite place.

It's Jacob's favorite place.

We should all just go.

Amina, when you're talking to Sam about the dream journaling and waking up and saying, okay, one thing that you said struck me, and you said it's not.

You said.

What did you say?

You said, write down, like, when you're seeing the orcas, how often are you seeing them?

Write down everything you dreamed.

But you also said, write down what's going on in your life and what you're feeling so that you can kind of like, see if there's a pattern.

See if there's a pattern.

And I was just like, what?

Wait a minute.

Dream journaling is not just journaling about dreams.

Now I'm seeing.

Yeah, for sure.

And again, this may not apply to everybody.

Like, you don't have to do all these extra.

There's so many factors, you know, you don't have to write everything down.

But I have noticed patterns.

Like on the anniversary of certain things on dream of something related to that.

Or like, every couple months on the same day, I'll dream of a certain symbol.

And that kind of just gives me clues, you know, with dreams, it's kind of like figuring out a puzzle, you know?

And so all these things might help you with the puzzle.

So if you feel like, oh, that might be helpful to me, then do it.

You know, if not, like, it's.

It's fine.

It's not like the most important piece of information, but it's just something that can add to understanding these patterns.

I actually remember that video that you posted about you had a dream, and then when you're looking back in your journal, you realize that you have that same dream or that same year.

Yeah, the dream, like, continued on, like, literally a year later, which I thought was cool.

Like, it was similar themes and stuff and I hadn't even noticed.

But sometimes I'll look at my dream journal to, like a year ago just to see.

Just to see if I can see.

Any connections because, like, oh, this is familiar.

I feel like I've.

Well, that kind of builds on to the other question.

What is it?

So the other question was having dreams that basically build off of each other.

And so I was like, oh, okay.

That's another great question, actually, for me too.

Oh, from our, from our listeners.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Because when there's.

There's a couple of places.

So I have two places that I visit frequently in my dreams.

And in that dream, I can remember the past dream as if it was real.

So there's like a resort that Simon and I go to.

And like, in my dream I've learned the layout and it's like, really confusing, but, like, so I know that we're at the same resort and I know the layout now.

And so then there's like a different hurdle.

And then there's also.

We were talking with, I think, the past life.

I was just gonna say I want to hear more about that.

And I bet the listeners do too.

Yeah.

So then there was the dream.

And I still haven't figured out.

Tell them in it.

Yeah.

That it's like this thrift store, I think, that I keep going into.

And so in one dream, I was in the thrift store and it, you know, I'm back in there.

The owner was like, oh, hey, take whatever clothing and shoes you need.

And so I did.

And then when I revisited the thrift shop, I remember walking around being like, oh, I'd been in this shop before, like, and it looked exactly the same from, like, the last time I was there.

And then I saw the owner and I literally started crying and, like, woke up crying.

So I was like, thank you so much.

You don't even, like, realize, like, how much, like, what you gave to me meant to me.

And I don't even know who the fuck is this lady is.

And I don't even know what this thrift shop is.

And I was like, this is so weird.

Wow, that's so cool.

Okay.

This is one of the most awesome, mind blowing things about dreams that I really love.

So it's like I've noticed this.

You know, we have these continuing dreams, I call them persistent realms.

Like, which is literally like a realm that's always there, that you build on, that stays the same when you go back to it, whether you're lucid or not.

People experience this.

And what.

What's crazy is, like, it's almost like we have a separate memory bank for dreams.

Like, we remember dreams, and it has these storylines that continue.

And sometimes I'll even remember people from the dream that I don't know in waking life.

Like, I'll be like, oh, yeah, like, Victoria did that last week, like in the dream, and I don't know this person at all.

So it's like it has like its own.

Victoria.

Right, Exactly.

So it has like its own memory bank, which I think is interesting.

And sometimes while lucid, I can choose to go back to dreamscapes that I've even created and they stay the same.

Like you can create your own dreamscape that stays the same, the same.

And then you go back to.

And then you build on every time.

Like, I do this a lot.

Interesting.

Yeah.

But for people that are not lucid, like, definitely create your own dream map.

Like if you notice scenarios all the time, like the dream symbols that I tell people to focus on on their dream journal.

Like if you don't write any long narratives and you only write down what you saw, write down characters, environments, objects and emotions.

Like those four things.

Characters, environments, objects and emotions are like your little dream map.

Like you can kind of see what comes up, what doesn't.

And the environment specifically is really cool because, you know, it may be the exact same place every time.

And again you can use it as a lucidity trigger or, you know, it may, may change a little bit.

Dreams are kind of, it's like a different dimension that we live in part time, literally.

Like, it's kind of crazy to see it that way, but it is, it is true.

That was kind of what I was about to ask you.

And we keep bringing up the past life regression, but I think that was just one of our most recent, like mind blowing conversations.

She was explaining how, you know, the soul could be living in two dimensions at the same exact time.

And so that dream had come up because I was like, well, what if that is another dimension that I am living in?

And that's why it meant so much to me and this lady meant so much to me, even though I personally don't know anything about it right now.

Yes, it could be.

So this is where it gets more metaphysical.

But it applies to the past life stuff because there's actually a lot of scientific evidence for past lives.

And dreams are a big contributor to that because we'll have like three year olds that dream of like Navy war pilots when they name ships specifically and they name things that the three year old doesn't know otherwise.

And this happens a lot.

Like there are thousands and thousands of confirmed cases and then they've been able to find whatever, you know, so we can dream of past lives.

People dream of parallel lives, lives.

They've lived alternate versions of their lives where they ended up up dating their high school guy instead or whatever, you know, like parallel versions of ourselves, of where we made different choices.

People dream of that.

Some people even have dreams like they go to sleep one night and their dream is like months long, like a lifetime that they lived in this other life.

They grow up, get married, have a family, their dad dies, whatever.

They have this whole life and then they wake up and they're just like a teenager again and they're mourning this entire like years of dream that they had and they thought it was a real life.

Yeah.

And my friend, I have a friend who even had this at like 4 years old.

She said she tells me this dream all the time.

I'm gonna do a podcast about it.

But she literally woke up as a four year old and had a dream of like an entire lifetime where she died as like an old man.

And then she woke up again as a four year old and like she's still like, she's still like traumatized by it.

Oh, it's like, God, I love.

We really.

I never would have other lives.

It's crazy.

Like there was literally a dream where I woke up morning because I felt like it was like one of those.

Yeah, it was like one of those whole life things and then someone died.

I can't remember if someone or if it was me.

And then I woke up and I was literally like sad.

It's real.

Like dreams are really affecting us and we're really there traveling, so.

So we bring that across dimensions with us.

Yeah, I love that.

I.

Everyone, if you think about it, can relate to at least one of these aspects in one of these stories.

So it's just really interesting to link it.

Do you have any links?

Is anything triggering, like any like links for you?

So just the idea.

So I call them movie dream.

Melissa Walker, she's a friend of mine that I mention it every episode.

Apparently she and I both have like really vivid dreams and we call them movie dreams because it just feels like you're in a movie or you're watching a movie.

It has like a little storyline and it's like you've lived a whole.

It's almost like you were describing those living like a whole life.

And so I would say four nights ago I had one of these dreams and I woke up and I said, I need to write this down.

Did I?

No, I've lost it.

All I can remember is certain weird, like they weren't aliens.

But hey, in that dream I was being experimented on in some way at one part and that's all I can remember.

But anyway, yeah, these movie dreams, I kind of just feel like, is that.

Just like the perspective that you're seeing.

It in, or I'm in it, but I feel like we called a movie dream because it's like.

It's like a whole story.

Oh, okay, okay.

And it's just bizarre too, but it make it all anyway.

I don't know.

That makes me think of the different perspectives because I feel like there's dreams from different perspectives where you feel like an observer watching a movie, but then there's sometimes where you're actually only seeing like what you would see because it's physically you that's experiencing it.

And sometimes you're a totally different dream character altogether.

And sometimes it's third person, sometimes it's first person.

And, you know, it's funny that you brought that up because alien abduction dreams are also a very common phenomena that people even believe that aliens, you know, experiment on us through their dreams.

A lot of movies are made about this, you know, and movies kind of, wow, take a little bit of bits and truth.

So I don't know.

That may or may not be true.

I don't have all the answers.

Well, and because you guys brought it up, one of Simon was watching a documentary on aliens.

And, you know, I kind of have always felt like aliens are silly.

Like, that's just a silly thing.

But in this document or documentary, it was basically saying how the.

It shows you how the human skull has basically evolved over.

Over the years.

And that when they project what the human skull would look like if it kept.

Kept adjusting into the future, it looks like what we think of an alien, where it's the narrow jaw, big head, and the eyes are very large and on the side.

And so the theory at the end of it was, well, what if aliens are the future us traveling back in time to learn from mistakes and learn from the humans in the past.

And so basically a parallel life.

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, it's a very common theory.

I also, I mean, I fully believe in aliens.

Like, I believe in aliens that are human evolved and some that are other types of aliens.

There's probably different races of aliens.

So, yeah, if they are more advanced than us, I don't see why they wouldn't be able to tap into our dreams.

But that's again why lucid dreaming is so important, so you can take control of your own dream content.

Love it.

Oh, interesting.

Because if they're.

Okay, sorry, just to go on this weird tangent that we started.

If aliens are tapping into our dreams, if that's the thing, we want to try to take that control away from them and Is that what you're kind of saying?

So I don't want to scare people, obviously.

I don't want to, like, put scary ideas into people's heads.

But, you know, let's say if you believe in aliens, like, we can entertain this theory.

If aliens are more advanced and smarter than us and have all this fancy technology, there's a potential that they can read our minds or tap into our dreams.

Right?

Same thing with even the government and people in power.

Like, there's theories about them putting ads in our dreams.

And so there's this whole thing about, like, dream privacy and, and the ethical concerns of that, right?

Yeah, there is.

I mean, even though dreams are all in our head, like all this new science is pointing to the idea that maybe we can share dream spaces, maybe it's more than just in our head.

Maybe we're tapping into a collective dimension.

Right.

So that's definitely a possibility, a scary one at that.

But again, I tell people, like, you're safe in your dreams at the end of the day.

You can your dreams or maybe not even try to control it, but you have control over what you allow into your psyche and to what affects you.

Lucid dreaming makes it easier to, you know, take charge about what you dream of and what type of energy you consume.

And nightmares are always going to happen once in a while.

Like that's a normal part of dreaming.

You might have a scary alien dream once in a while, but I've never seen of an alien that actually hurt someone in a dream.

So as long as they put you back safe and sound at the end of the day, like, who really cares, right?

Yeah, I guess that's true.

Like, there's a lot of movies, there's a lot of shows and movies that like, allude to this and, and shows and movies come from somewhere, some ideas and theories.

So people have thought about it, you know, but you'll be fine.

That's so interesting.

So, Amina, you have taught us so much and honestly, I just think we could have you back every season.

But I.

If you're like, you get so passionate and like, you have the best talking voice, like, you should be on radio.

She is.

Thank you.

That's sweet.

She's on podcast.

Okay.

That's true.

I wanted to know from you, like, what is the most meaningful question that you either asked and went into a lucid dream asking or even maybe you didn't go into it, but you had answered in a lucid dream?

Like, if you don't mind sharing.

Sure.

I love this question.

I really love sharing my dreams.

And just a little disclaimer.

Sometimes when I share my lucid dreams, like, to me it sounds like the most marvelous, marvelous, like, amazing epiphany.

And then it might sound totally basic to somebody else.

No, that's fair, but.

So I had a couple series of dreams where I kept asking the meaning of life, like, you know, just to see, like, what would happen, you know?

Yeah.

So I asked, what is the meaning of life while lucid on a few different occasions.

And this is actually one of the dreams.

I'm sorry, I'm gonna interrupt for just a second.

Is this the one?

I listened to a few of your.

Quite a few of your episodes, and one of them, I swear, you were talking about the meaning of life, and then you talked about dream police.

Is this.

Yeah, okay.

It's okay.

It might have.

I've had so many dreams that they overlap, but I can talk about what the dream police is, which is kind of an interesting thing.

So, yeah, I mean, they can be related.

But the meaning of life thing, when I would just ask, like, what is the meaning of life?

I would get different answers.

Sometimes I would get random answers.

But this one that really stuck with me was it just gave me one word.

And that one word was unity.

And I always get something along those lines of, like, unity, community, like, connection.

Like, that is the meaning of life that my dreams give me.

So it's like.

It's like, yeah, it's like this deep thing, but it's also like, okay, what am I supposed to do with that?

You know?

So it's like.

It's, like, elusive, you know?

And I've also had these big, like, just realizations.

Like, I had this one long lucid dream where my dream character was like, I'm your spirit guide, and I watch you.

Oh, wow.

I'm going to take you somewhere.

Yeah.

And this is one of my favorite ones.

And he took me to, like, this secret room that human dreamers are not allowed to go.

So he told me to, like, stay quiet or the dream police will send me back to my body or wake me up.

Right.

It's kind of like this concept that I called the dream police of, like, dreams that kind of wake you up when you get too close to, like, getting all the secrets or.

Or just, you know, whatever, when they feel like, okay, you've had enough.

You can wake up now.

They'll kind of come around.

So I was.

And I knew this already because it's happened to me in a lot of dreams.

So I was like, okay, I'll try to lay low and just act normal.

But he was showing me all this stuff.

He was telling me, like, secrets of the universe.

I can't even remember everything because it's impossible to remember everything from the dream.

You know, you're literally trying to remember everything that you said, like, throughout hours, right?

Impossible.

But you can remember the general messages of what you got and the general feeling.

But he was showing me, like, this big TV screen, right?

This is how the metaphor was shown to me in the dream.

And the TV screen had, like, dinosaur era on it.

Like, not like a movie, but, like, live.

Like, he was watching it live, and he was like, we can just change to any time and place on Earth and we watch you guys and, like, all eyes are on Earth right now.

Like, it's like this big, like, show, and, like, we are cheering you guys on.

And, like, he could change to the forties or the future or, like, us right now having this podcast.

You know what I mean?

So they literally watch us all the time, and they told me about how, you know, we live these different lives for different reasons, but we all kind of are connected and, like, you know, all these, like, big truths.

And I had this years ago, kind of before all these new Agey theories started to get popular, but I still resonated with them.

And so a lot of times I'll just have these, like, spiritual realizations.

I've also asked for, like, advice on my own life, you know, such as, like, what do I do about this situation?

What do I do for my research dissertation topic?

Like, different things like that.

And I've also gotten great answers that have guided me, you know, through my life with that.

So, yeah, those are some of the bigger, deeper stuff.

I'd have to search through my dream journal for more.

Yeah, that's amazing.

When you talk about unity, it's like, yeah, it's super elusive because it's like, well, what is the point of, like, having, like.

It's like I feel sometimes like we're in some kind of an experiment.

The Truman Show.

Sherman Truman.

Yeah, the Truman Show.

You're right.

No, not like that, but more like I. I sometimes feel like we're all just part of the same organism, if that makes sense.

Like, we're just thrown into a petri dish.

We're, like, growing.

And something that happens over here on this side affects, you know, over here, and I feel like that's how we are as humans on this world.

I feel like we all are part of the same thing, and we affect each other.

Yes, but it's like you say, elusive because.

And I agree.

Because it's like, but why?

What's the intent?

Like, where?

What is the what?

Why?

Oh, I haven't.

You made me remember another 4 Dreams story where I did this.

So I go up to this random dream character and I ask her again, what's the meaning of life?

She says, fruit tivity and creative expression.

And I'm like, that's interesting.

This time I'm like, no, give me more.

Like, what does it mean?

That's just words.

Nice.

She was like, well, she goes, we're all just one big fake dream simultaneously being dreamed by the bigger real dream.

And I ask her, what's the real dream?

She's like, some people call it God.

And I ask her, so what's the fake dream?

And she goes, I don't know.

I'm like, me neither.

And then we laugh and skip away.

No.

Yeah.

And so that's kind of like.

It's kind of like really representative of like the whole concept because it's like, wow, so deep.

But also like, it's not even that serious.

Like, yeah, like, who even cares?

Are you having fun?

Exactly.

And then in another one, I asked a dream character, how can I heal my trauma and my blockages?

And they brought me this big plastic puzzle.

And the pieces of the puzzle was like a word Scrabble puzzle.

And then the one that I was working on said programming with like a bunch of Rs.

So I thought that was cool too.

Oh, that is interesting.

Programming your blockages and trauma.

Yeah, because it was a flat cat too.

So I was about to say, so maybe a cat.

That is.

So there was a cat in the dream.

Oh.

Because I was.

Again, it's like, that's a good answer.

But well, also.

Okay, two things come to my mind with that because now I'm just.

This is fun programming.

So you said prrrr.

Lots of Rs.

When cats purr, there's some research saying that they purred a certain frequency.

That can help wounds heal faster and better.

And so that's one thing that's very interesting.

The other thing is like, oh, maybe it's programming, like just re training ourselves, like to have our neurons fire in a more healthy way.

Yeah, I don't know.

Do either, I think.

Yeah, both.

Yeah, Yeah, I think both.

Because I've also had.

Obviously I believe both theories are true because I've also had dreams with my cat, like, laying on me and waking life.

Yeah.

He'll like, lay on my chest while I'M sleeping.

And it'll, like, he'll make his way into my dreams sometimes, like, I'll have dreams where he's, like, helping me heal people.

And he's, like, telling me how to send healing energy around the world.

And I can feel him purring on me, like, in my dream.

Kind of like that study I was talking about, like, it makes.

Makes its way into my dream.

That is so beautiful.

I love that we could keep going forever.

This is fascinating.

It is always fascinating.

And then it's just like how all of our conversations, we always end with.

It's kind of coming into, like, a full circle where it just translates into so many of the other conversations we've had.

Like, everything seems connected.

Everything does seem connected.

It really.

Towards the end of the conversation, it even reminded me and brought me back to Lara's episode where we're talking about shaman practice.

Shaman practitioning.

Yeah.

And how everyone is the same energy.

And it just.

That's kind of what.

Yeah.

It made me think of when you were talking.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah.

It's really awesome stuff.

If dreams really do bring us all together.

And, you know, people use dreams to talk to ancestors and understand them better and grow.

And so it's just so many benefits to working with dreams.

So just out of my own curiosity, as we come to an end, our dreams, what you use as your main guide in your daily life?

Some of the other people that we talk to, they use their tarot cards or their.

What's the O one that.

That I just got?

Oracle.

Oracle cards.

Or some people would even say, no, you just need to go get therapy.

So, like.

Yeah.

Yeah.

There's a lot of different tools at our disposal.

And dreaming is definitely my favorite one.

Lucid dreaming as well.

That's kind of like my thing, and I teach people about it.

But again, find what works for you.

Whether it's meditation, prayer, whatever it is.

There's so many different ways to connect with yourself.

I agree.

I love it.

And everyone has a different level or thing that's going to comfort.

Yeah.

Or something that's going to, like, resonate with them.

We're all different.

Yeah.

On our own journeys.

Well, thanks for joining us again.

I'm so glad that we got to have questions asked that we were able to touch base again and kind of get into that and we learned even more.

Yeah.

And it's so fun just going on, like, little, like, journeys with you.

Like, you're such an interesting person.

I love talking to you.

Oh, thank you.

Likewise.

You guys are so fun to talk to and I'm happy to chat anytime.

Well, thank you.

Well, I'm sure you guys keep asking questions and I'm sure that we can do some more work with Amina in the future.

Sounds like a plan.

Yay.

Alrighty.

Skirts out.

Awesome.

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Sam.