[00:00:00] Handyman Bob Strong: It's around the house on this for you from about 1940 to 1980, I will tell you that. And the word I use is ubiquitous. Asbestos was used in virtually all building materials, other than wood, glass, and metal. Um, everything else, all bets are off. So we find it very com commonly in sprayed on textures on walls and ceiling.

[00:00:32] Handyman Bob Strong: Traveled on textures. Uh, you talked about nine by nine tiles. I'm gonna say 80 to 90% of the ones that we test in the nine by nine inch range. Uh, test positive for asbestos, uh, as does the Masick usually that's holding those down. We have, um, maybe 40. Of the 12 by 12 tiles when it comes to remodeling and renovating your home, there is a lot [00:01:00] to know, but we've got you covered.

[00:01:02] Handyman Bob Strong: This is around the house. Welcome

[00:01:06] Eric Goranson: to

[00:01:06] Eric Goranson: around the

[00:01:06] Eric Goranson: house with Eric G and Caroline B, where we talk home improvement every single weekend. Thanks for joining us. Hello, Caroline, how are

[00:01:15] Eric Goranson: you?

[00:01:16] Caroline Blazovsky: Hello. I actually feel like the third wheel today. I feel like I shouldn't be here.

[00:01:22] Eric Goranson: I feel like I

[00:01:22] Eric Goranson: should be out.

[00:01:26] Eric Goranson: We have a very special guest. Handyman Bob in the studio. Welcome back to your around the house. Handyman Bob. Hey, that's great to be back

[00:01:38] Handyman Bob Strong: with you and Caroline. You're never a third wheel. thank

[00:01:41] Eric Goranson: you. So before we start talking about asbestos and everything, environmental inside your home, that can be bad for you.

[00:01:51] Eric Goranson: We gotta get everybody up to speed on handyman Bob's history here with around the house. He was the host and co-host of this show [00:02:00] for nearly a decade and was my former co-host. And, uh, there was a day that he wanted his weekends back and he handed me the torch and we have run with it up to here, but we have, uh, handyman Bob and his suspenders right back on

[00:02:14] Handyman Bob Strong: the show again.

[00:02:15] Handyman Bob Strong: Well, I'll tell you what, that wasn't a torch. I passed off. It was a microphone, but you've been flaming it ever since

[00:02:24] Eric Goranson: uh, there were days. I was wondering if it was a hand grenade, but you know how it goes. This is radio and podcasting.

[00:02:32] Eric Goranson: well, thanks for coming back on brother. This is great.

[00:02:35] Handyman Bob Strong: I wouldn't have missed it. I appreciate the invite.

[00:02:38] Eric Goranson: Always welcome on here. You and I were talking about it, and this is something that you and I have talked about in the past and Caroline and I love talking about it, but you know, we still are seeing, and I'm seeing this on social media, on all the home improvement groups out there, the misunderstanding of asbestos and how to deal with it in your home.

[00:02:59] Eric Goranson: And [00:03:00] you have started a viral test years ago. Testing environmental stuff inside the house and building materials, uh, in the Portland area. And, uh, I wanted to dive into that with you so we could chat with you about it today. Okay, great. Let's go. So you PE contractors, homeowners call you up for instance and say, okay, I'm starting to remodel project mm-hmm and I know.

[00:03:25] Eric Goranson: As far as Oregon code and Washington code that you're you're you have to be part of that process to follow the rules, correct?

[00:03:31] Handyman Bob Strong: That's correct. And in fact, the rules dictate that prior to beginning any renovation or demolition project, a contractor is required to test all the materials that will be disturbed to see if there is the presence of asbestos does not fall true on homeowners.

[00:03:50] Handyman Bob Strong: Um, the inside your, uh, home. Caroline, uh, you're the queen of your castle. Mm-hmm you can do almost anything you [00:04:00] wanna do, but if you're a contractor, uh, the onus is upon you to hire somebody. Right? And it, it was in, um, January of 2016 that the state of Oregon, I say reinforced the asbestos rules. And you remember this time?

[00:04:19] Handyman Bob Strong: Well, Eric, we were getting calls the end of 2015 from our contractor. Contacts, uh, our listeners and they were saying, what is going on down at the transfer station? They're telling us we're gonna have to have some kind of an asbestos test. Well, Eric, this was when I became, I think the luckiest guy on earth and luck is defined as the intersection of preparation and opportunity.

[00:04:47] Handyman Bob Strong: I was prepared the opportunity presented itself. January 1st, 2016 is when the rules were reinforced by the, um, 13th day of [00:05:00] January, I had my federal inspector's license and by the first day of February, I was taking my first samples. There you

[00:05:07] Eric Goranson: go. There you go. So what are you seeing out there, Bob? And I know Caroline's probably got a bunch of questions on this stuff too, even though she's an expert in this as well, but you know, it's funny, there's so many.

[00:05:20] Eric Goranson: Misconceptions about asbestos. You know, I see so many people go oh, before 1980 is what that rule is on asbestos. And there's just this common thing where people almost confuse lead and asbestos together on when those materials were used in building materials.

[00:05:39] Handyman Bob Strong: It's easy to conflate them because 1987. Uh, or excuse me, 1978 is the cutoff date when lead based paint.

[00:05:48] Handyman Bob Strong: Um, it was made illegal to use in residential structures, uh, and people do conflate asbestos and lead based paint at that point. So you're right. Another [00:06:00] thing that happened was that, uh, was 1986. The EPA, uh, was granted full authority to regulate asbestos. So people here at 86 and they say, oh, well, asbestos was made illegal and, and so on.

[00:06:16] Handyman Bob Strong: So there are a lot of confusing dates, but the bottom line is asbestos is still a legal commodity, uh, could be used. Extensively in the United States, if a manufacturer chose to, however, there's a little thing known as litigation we are the most litigious country in the world. I believe. And as such with mesothelioma lawsuits hanging over manufacturer's heads for past use of asbestos that is now causing health concerns.

[00:06:53] Handyman Bob Strong: Um, they've, you know, they've, they've found workarounds. They found things that, that replaced [00:07:00] the asbestos. And we, we should talk about that at some point is do why was it used and was it really necessary? Was it any. So I've

[00:07:10] Caroline Blazovsky: got a lot of information. Here we go. So we opened up a big can of worms. the reason that I got into environmental, I guess, consulting, if you will.

[00:07:21] Caroline Blazovsky: And it wasn't a conscious thing. It was something that happened to me when I was young, I was very close with my grandfather. He was extremely prevalent in my life and, and someone that I really admired and looked up to, he worked for John's Manville for many, many years. He was brought out over, you know, he came.

[00:07:38] Caroline Blazovsky: Um, Slovakia or the region Czech Republic. He was brought over. He worked in the coal mines. He went down into these really. Terrible conditions and worked as a coal miner, which you can imagine. I think it's brought probably one of the hardest jobs I think anybody can do. And then he ended up John's Manville came to these parts of Pennsylvania and said, look, we'll make a great life for you.

[00:07:56] Caroline Blazovsky: Come work at our factories and we're gonna, [00:08:00] you know, provide you with homes and places for your family and money. And so he did, and he ended up working there for his entire career and of course died and, and his eighties developed Malia. And was constantly, you know, at, at some point before that being checked regularly for asbestosis, which obviously can turn into myoma.

[00:08:18] Caroline Blazovsky: Um, and so I didn't know it, but watching him go through that process. Gave me Bob that, um, I guess that understanding that companies don't really look out for us and they don't necessarily are, are not thinking about the health of their workers. And it wasn't something that was directly, it was sitting in the back of my mind.

[00:08:36] Caroline Blazovsky: And I guess I always wanted to help people and understand and kind of work against the man if you will, and sort of make these conditions better. But I never really understood it until many years later that this was the reason why, cuz I saw my grandfather suffer from this horrible disease. So with that being said, I think you're so right.

[00:08:53] Caroline Blazovsky: Like, um, like why was this product ever manufactured? But it was manufactured in a place. They thought they were making a better life for [00:09:00] people and providing these products and in the town itself was completely condemned and they had to do tons of restoration remediation to the grounds and all of that around John's Manville factory, which was in Manville, New Jersey.

[00:09:11] Caroline Blazovsky: Um, to make it right years after. I mean, it used to look like it was snowing. My parents grew up in that area. And so you'd go out in the middle of the summer and you see this stuff that looked like snow, and it was the asbestos just falling out of the sky.

[00:09:24] Handyman Bob Strong: And it probably wouldn't surprise you to know then Caroline, that the snow that we saw on early television and the snow that we sprinkled onto our window sills and flocked our trees with at Christmas time.

[00:09:41] Handyman Bob Strong: was pure raw asbestos. Mm-hmm

[00:09:45] Eric Goranson: my mom was an elementary. Yeah. My mom was an elementary school teacher in the sixties. and, uh, they would sit there in third grade, be making clay projects that they would send home to the parents that were made with [00:10:00] clay and they'd fire 'em in the kiln and do the whole process.

[00:10:03] Eric Goranson: And they mixed in asbestos with the clay to make 'em so they could make ashtrays and stuff that would hold up better for the heat and stuff for ashtrays, with the kids. And. Sprinkling and mixing it right in, in the middle of third

[00:10:14] Handyman Bob Strong: grade. Absolutely. And it, it made those ashtrays stronger and far more fireproof and all of the good things.

[00:10:22] Handyman Bob Strong: And in fact, in the sixties, uh, my mother was a cigarette smoker and at one point in time, she was smoking a cigarette called Kent. It was made by the P Laurel iron company. As I recall the filter on the Kent C. Was known as Aite filter hundred percent pure asbestos

[00:10:47] Handyman Bob Strong: hold

[00:10:47] Eric Goranson: my beer. Let's make asbestos smoking worse,

[00:10:54] Handyman Bob Strong: sucking tar on nicotine, but you're sucking in raw asbestos. Well, I watched [00:11:00] my mother die. Mm-hmm yeah. Um, and she died. I I'm sure had we had an autopsy there would've been just huge, huge, huge lung scarring. Would've had probably MIS mesothelioma, although it was never diagnosed. Mm-hmm at the very least it was C O P D or emphysema or something of that nature.

[00:11:21] Handyman Bob Strong: But toward the end, her mouth would open and close and she couldn't draw. It's terrible. Yeah. She was like a fish on the dock

[00:11:31] Eric Goranson: and yeah, not comfortable, not, you know what

[00:11:33] Caroline Blazovsky: I think our listeners have to understand is that these things don't affect you immediately. It's not something where you're gonna see an impact and you're gonna know that you were exposed.

[00:11:41] Caroline Blazovsky: And so years after an exposure, you have to worry, like my uncle worked at the factory, so he has to worry. Now, later in life, my father worked at the factory. He paid to make, give my mom her engagement ring. That's how we worked during the summer. So all of these people were exposed, but now later in life in their.

[00:11:57] Caroline Blazovsky: You know, seventies starting, usually 60 [00:12:00] seventies, you have to start to be monitored for these things and they can just have this impact that you never were expecting. So it's a long term thing. It's not something that's gonna happen

[00:12:08] Handyman Bob Strong: quickly. It's it, it's an amazing thing. Meso from the, from the first exposure, the let's call it the critical exposure.

[00:12:18] Handyman Bob Strong: It's the one that ultimately, uh, develops into mesothelioma. Uh, the latency period, uh, is 20 to 70 years from exposure to onset of mesothelioma 20 to 70 years. So the 20 year old who's working. The home remodeling industry today by age 40 may sea signs by the same token, it may not occur until he's 90 years old.

[00:12:50] Handyman Bob Strong: Mm-hmm . This is, uh, and, and the people that you're talking about who were in the Johns Manville plants and who were working in [00:13:00] shipyards and who were boiler makers, uh, lagging, uh, boiler pipe, uh, things of that sort. Uh, they were exposed to huge volumes of stuff. They're. Now, if, if they're going to die, they're now in their nineties typically, and, uh, and are dying of mesothelioma, but that is only one group of people where the, where the increasing death rate is occurring.

[00:13:34] Handyman Bob Strong: The other group of people. Is in their forties and fifties. Well, where are they coming from? Because by the time, you know, they weren't lagging pipe, they weren't building ships for world war II. Um, they weren't working at a Johns Manville plant making roofing. They were remodeling commercial and residential structures.

[00:13:54] Handyman Bob Strong: Mm-hmm , that's the second wave and it's it's occurring now. [00:14:00]

[00:14:00] Eric Goranson: Well, Bob, you know, there's so many. Misconceptions, as well as what building materials that you're finding asbestos in. That's something that you have to deal with. And, you know, I'll jump on, uh, the social media groups, you know, the Facebook groups for home improvement and old houses and things like that.

[00:14:20] Eric Goranson: And it's jam packed full of misinformation. You know, you see people going, oh, nine by nine tiles are bad. 12 by 12 tiles are good, you know, and the list goes on and on. What are you seeing you do tests your company does test every single day. Of course, the real answer is you always have to test it, but what are some of the products that are most common?

[00:14:45] Handyman Bob Strong: Um, I, I'm gonna put a, a date group on this for you. Okay. From about 1940 to 1980, I will tell you that. And the word I use is ubiquitous. Asbestos was used in [00:15:00] virtually all building material. Other than wood, glass, and metal. Um, everything else, all bets are off, so, okay. We find it very com commonly in sprayed on textures on walls and ceilings traveled on textures.

[00:15:17] Handyman Bob Strong: Uh, you talked about nine by nine tiles. I'm gonna say 80 to 90% of the ones that we test in the nine by nine inch range, uh, test positive for asbestos, uh, as does the MAs stick. Usually that's holding those down. We have, um, maybe 40% of the 12 by 12 tiles that we test that had asbestos in it. And if you go back to the sixties, there's a great radio commercial.

[00:15:45] Handyman Bob Strong: Actually it was television early television commercial. Now with more asbestos for longer where, oh, no Armstrong

[00:15:54] Eric Goranson: tile, Armstrong tile. I have an ad. I think I run into the studio one time to you. That was the, uh, [00:16:00] it's a ad out of like women's day magazine or good housekeeping back in like 1966. And now with added asbestos for durability.

[00:16:08] Handyman Bob Strong: Absolutely. So those are areas where you find it and you find it in, um, in things you wouldn't even expect. Uh, window glazing that, uh, sealant putty that holds the, the, the glass into the window sash itself, um, uh, has a small amount of, uh, sometimes we don't find. In roofing anymore, other than potentially, and once in a great, great while the felt paper or, uh, tar paper underneath the roofing.

[00:16:43] Handyman Bob Strong: But I think we've gone through all of the Johns Manville. Asbestos containing roofing that, um, that was out there because roofing does have a finite life and people get it torn off their house or their, uh, their commercial [00:17:00] building. And it's been disposed of by now. Um, but there's

[00:17:04] Eric Goranson: always that risk of those people that went and put three roofs on the building.

[00:17:09] Eric Goranson: And even though it was against building code and, uh, common sense. There still could be a 50, 60, 70 year old roof underneath there just because there's three or four layers up there because somebody got really lazy and, or really cheap. That

[00:17:24] Handyman Bob Strong: is a distinct possibility. You're absolutely right. And so when it comes time to, uh, to test, even though in the state of Oregon, there is a, uh, an exemption for three tab, shingle roofing.

[00:17:36] Handyman Bob Strong: If we run into one of those where you can just grab a handful of the roofing material and. Disintegrates basically into your hand. Mm-hmm , we'll throw that in a sample bag as well, just to, just to rule it out.

[00:17:50] Eric Goranson: Gotcha. And of course, one of my favorite sighting materials is the asbestos sighting out there.

[00:17:57] Eric Goranson: There is not much more durable with it, [00:18:00] but, uh, when dealt with incorrectly, it can be dangerous.

[00:18:03] Handyman Bob Strong: Yeah. And you just said the, the operative word incorrectly, and it brings us to a couple of terms that, uh, are important in the world of asbestos fryable and non fryable. Now those nine by nine tiles, we were talking about the 12 by 12 vinyl tiles.

[00:18:19] Handyman Bob Strong: We were talking about even the MAs. That's holding them to the floor. It's a petroleum based product that siding you're talking about water pipe, um, Gladstone, Oregon, the entire going, wait, pipe flat down for water. Wait, asbestos piping. What does that mean? Well, it means that in the cement was put an asbestos binder.

[00:18:43] Handyman Bob Strong: Um, so, you know, done over the country.

[00:18:49] Eric Goranson: yep. so the, uh,

[00:18:54] Handyman Bob Strong: let's talk a little bit about fryable and non fryable. Yeah. Uh, because that citing [00:19:00] really is not dangerous. Unless you belt sand it, or, um, get real aggressive with hand tools and smash it up and break it up. And it, it can be taken off, uh, one piece at a time, as long as it's not thrown into the dumpster and, and forming, uh, lots of little tiny pieces, the same way with the floor tiles.

[00:19:26] Handyman Bob Strong: Those are consider. Non fryable because the matrix, the cement and the vinyl binding the asbestos. So tightly that it's almost impossible to break it loose. On the other hand, the. Texture on your wall, whether it's a light texture, like an orange peel or a heavy Venetian plaster type of a texture or a knock down texture on a ceiling, things like that.

[00:19:54] Handyman Bob Strong: Those are very fryable means fryable. If you look up the definition of it means you can [00:20:00] powder it by hand, you can make non fryable materials. Fryable. Um, through more aggressive action, but at least that's the way the state interprets it. However, uh, fryable is, is a common term and it's easy to spot something that's fryable because it means it's soft and pliable or not pliable soft.

[00:20:23] Handyman Bob Strong: And pable now you're raising dust and that's what got your grandfather. Caroline was the dust, the, the environment he was in, there were no dust controls, uh, and no personal protective equipment. I've seen pictures of people working in, in plants, uh, were asbestos products were, were manufactured. You can't see the people.

[00:20:49] Handyman Bob Strong: Through the dust cloud and it's raw asbestos. There's a

[00:20:53] Caroline Blazovsky: couple things too, that you're, that are, you're touching on that one. I, I think about my grandmother, cuz my grandmother used to do [00:21:00] his laundry and she died of some sort of internal lung cancer and she went first. So we never thought to have her tested.

[00:21:06] Caroline Blazovsky: Right? Like you said with your mom, it just wasn't an option at that point, he got cancer much later. So, and he was part of the lawsuit and all of that. So it was, he had worked there, but my grandmother. Was breathing in all that dust off of his clothes. And I think this is true for anyone in the contracting industry.

[00:21:20] Caroline Blazovsky: When you come home and you throw the stuff that you wear into the laundry, I've always been one that says, we want a separate laundry for our work clothes, because you know, you don't know what you're exposed to at this point, it's asbestos, but who knows down the line, it may be PBC. It may be any of these other things that we work with every day that become a problem, silica dust, one of them.

[00:21:39] Caroline Blazovsky: And then the other thing we're talking about as I see here, a lot of, you know, we have a lot. Illegal immigrants. We have people that are working that maybe they're not illegal to the country, but they're working, you know, without having insurance and, and licensing and contracting, um, the contractors or the general contractors are paying them under the table.

[00:21:58] Caroline Blazovsky: And so I see a lot of [00:22:00] it happens to be Hispanics, Mexicans, you know, working what I call illegally, but they're removing this stuff without masks. They're removing throwing things into dumpsters. And I don't know the I'm trying to say it in the most. PC correct way, but the, these people are exposed to all of these things and there's no care for them at all.

[00:22:18] Caroline Blazovsky: Like they're just throwing them into the field and having them rip down construction. And they're they're in there without any PPE. It's it's um, it's kind

[00:22:27] Handyman Bob Strong: of scary or. We're waiting and hoping that OSHA catches that contractor.

[00:22:32] Caroline Blazovsky: And I can say in New Jersey, I mean, you can go to your local. We have Wawa here.

[00:22:36] Caroline Blazovsky: I joke with Eric, Eric doesn't have . He was like Wawa, seven 11. But these, these workers sit outside these places, waiting for contractors to come pick them up for the day. I don't know if this happens in Oregon, but this is a big thing here. They get picked up and they work for the day. They get cash and then they go home and they're never seen again.

[00:22:53] Caroline Blazovsky: Or they go with a different contractor the next day. So. No protection for them whatsoever and sad. It's very sad. Yeah. [00:23:00]

[00:23:00] Eric Goranson: The state of Oregon has made it much harder for that to happen here because they're fairly aggressive on that. I mean, we had a, and I think Bob, I'm not gonna use this person's name, but I think that they were a house flipper in lake Oswego here where I live, uh, five or six years ago.

[00:23:18] Eric Goranson: They did some asbestos tests. And hired a company like that to come in and do the abatement. That was not a certified abatement company. And they got hit with a hundred thousand dollars. Fine. Now I think they negotiated that back down later on through the through court appeals, but it was, it was a hefty fine that they wanted to make an

[00:23:40] Handyman Bob Strong: example out of.

[00:23:41] Handyman Bob Strong: And that's as it should be. Um, it's unfortunate that, uh, that same company changed its name started up is probably doing the same thing. Yep. Because the, the money is there to cover the fines. Uh, it, it really, it [00:24:00] is a sad situation. And Caroline, you mentioned, uh, the clothes, uh, and Eric, you were asking about where do we find ABES?

[00:24:10] Handyman Bob Strong: uh, one of the areas that, uh, we frequently overlook is the industrial side of things. Uh, how about the brake mechanic or the clutch mechanic and Eric? This is right in your wheelhouse. You are the mechanic wizard um, you know, there was a time when. All brake pads contained asbestos. And in fact, uh, one of the leading sponsors of NASCAR and other racing.

[00:24:43] Handyman Bob Strong: But Ray Bestos. Well, where does the Bestos come in? In the Rayos

[00:24:49] Eric Goranson: hello? I'm gonna use air quotes. Organic is a word in inorganic.

[00:24:56] Handyman Bob Strong: Yes. If you want asbestos breaks, I'm here to tell you, you can find them. [00:25:00] They are just simply you go into the, uh, uh, AutoZone or. Uh, O'Reilly or any of the others. And you asked for organic breaks and you're gonna get asbestos breaks.

[00:25:10] Handyman Bob Strong: So they're still available, just not in the quantity that we saw them back in the day, but that old, uh, uh, brake tech, uh, first thing he pulled out when he, uh, when he opened up the wheel was his airgun mm-hmm he wanted to blow it. Okay. Did he have a mask on no. Any covers? Sure. Chance of that? His respirator?

[00:25:33] Handyman Bob Strong: Nah. Did he have protective, uh, covering over his clothes? Nah, he took those same clothes home and you're right. His wife washed his clothes. Actually. The first thing he did cuz the little kid he's, uh, ran up and hugged daddy, daddy, daddy, and he hugged them and he held them and he walked into the house, holding them.

[00:25:54] Handyman Bob Strong: Now they're breathing that asbestos on his. Mm-hmm

[00:25:58] Eric Goranson: and just as the, just [00:26:00] as the, the business next door that had the kid that was sweeping the break dust out the out the garage door at the end of the day, that was the shop hand. And it was out in the parking lot. And the people that were walking into the business next door, that was the real estate office or the, or whatever, or the gas station that this happened at, you know?

[00:26:17] Eric Goranson: Yeah. It's easily spreading. That's kind thing. Question about it. Another place that I see it too. And you run into this a lot is. Vermiculite in that insulation that you see in those older

[00:26:27] Handyman Bob Strong: homes. Yeah. And vermiculite is an interesting product because it's not just used as insulation in, uh, addicts and walls of older homes.

[00:26:36] Handyman Bob Strong: It's also used and you'll find it in your local garden shop. Now, the, the beauty of it is that we recognize that a lot of verite insulation that, uh, came out of Libby Montana predominantly. Was contaminated. It was asbestos was not included, uh, by design. It was just a contaminate in the vermiculite [00:27:00] vermiculite is just another mineral that is mind.

[00:27:02] Handyman Bob Strong: Um, matter of fact, that's something let's, uh, um, go back and talk a little bit about. What is the origin of asbestos in a few minutes? Mm-hmm yeah. Yeah. Cuz it's, you know, probably whoever's listening may not know the origin of it, but, uh, vermiculite is, uh, a mineral it's mine and, uh, in limy Montana, the mind that they were getting it from, uh, had contaminants of, uh, or contaminated, uh, uh, veins, uh, uh, of, uh, asbestos.

[00:27:38] Handyman Bob Strong: Well, it didn't make any difference. Just, you know, it was just another insulating property. So they just kept it right in with the vermiculite. It just didn't make any difference. Well, it does make a difference because if you stir that vermiculite up, that contains asbestos. It can be very dangerous. Back of the matter is manipulate by itself.[00:28:00]

[00:28:00] Handyman Bob Strong: I wouldn't wanna be breathing the dust coming off of it. Uh, but, um, we do test it for asbestos. It's one of the most difficult products to test for asbestos. The vermiculite mineral is popped like popcorn to give it its light airy. Uh, attributes mm-hmm um, it also, uh, kinda looks like Micah that, uh, shiny surface to it.

[00:28:27] Handyman Bob Strong: It just, uh, but if it contains, if there are asbestos chunks in it, uh that's when it becomes potentially really, um, dangerous to the electrician, who's crawling around. Rewiring a, uh, an attic or something of that sort, or, uh, you know, somebody wanting to, uh, put a second story on the house, bring it out by the shovel full or the bag full.

[00:28:55] Handyman Bob Strong: Uh, it, it can be potentially very harmful and it's [00:29:00] very, very difficult to test for. It can be, it can be tested with some reliability, um, but there is a special. Testing methodology that has been developed by the EPA. For it. So if anybody's, uh, running, if anybody runs across something that looks like captain crunch, breakfast cereal in their attic, gross, that's be delight

[00:29:26] Handyman Bob Strong: So, Bob,

[00:29:27] Caroline Blazovsky: good one talk about asbestos, like where it comes from and, and what makes it so dangerous. And I think from my understanding of it, it, it lodges into your lung and sort of creates like these little shards of glass that don't ever go away. And that's what creates that asbestosis and it sort of sits there and then.

[00:29:45] Caroline Blazovsky: As you age, it has the potential to become carcinogenic.

[00:29:49] Handyman Bob Strong: Absolutely. Um, let's back up to what is asbestos? Well, asbestos is not a thing. Asbestos is a form of a [00:30:00] mineral and it's, uh, uh, the name asbestos is given. Six minerals, uh, in particular, the most common of which is, uh, commonly. We refer to as, uh, Cile asbestos.

[00:30:16] Handyman Bob Strong: It's the serpentine mineral. Uh, so if you've ever studied rocks and minerals, serpentine was something that you learned about, uh, it's kind of a cur. Um, fibrous thing, you can break it apart and it, it doesn't look like fiberglass, but it does. If, if you will, mm-hmm um, there are six of these minerals that, uh, uh, four of which had commercial application, crystal tile or serpentine, uh, probably 90% of the world.

[00:30:50] Handyman Bob Strong: Industrial use commercial use of asbestos was Chris asbestos. Um, there are others, no point in [00:31:00] naming them because you know, that makes great radio before we're off the show, but. They're broken into two part two, uh, descriptions.

[00:31:19] Handyman Bob Strong: You've got the crystal form and all, and you've also got a couple of 'em that are referred to as P I Amal. Um, ambles uh, are the really short. Uh, almost needle-like forms of the asbestos fiber. Those are the ones that are, are at least in the, uh, United Kingdom are, uh, claimed to be the most dangerous. I think they're all dangerous.

[00:31:50] Handyman Bob Strong: Um, but you're right, Caroline, what happens is that you inhale. It gets into the lung. It can, [00:32:00] you cannot expectorate. You can't expel it. It gets stuck down in there. That's what makes it so dangerous because your lung has protective abilities. It begins building a massive tissue around it. Ultimately that can become a, um, a, a cancerous tumor.

[00:32:21] Handyman Bob Strong: It, um, can affect. Outer lining of the lungs. And that's a, uh, something we refer to as mesothelioma. That is the, uh, you know, that's the end stage. Very, very difficult to treat. There are some treatments for it, but. It's pretty much a terminal diagnosis, uh, and the least of which. And you mentioned it is asbestosis.

[00:32:46] Handyman Bob Strong: Um, that's, it's the minor stage, so it's kind of the first stage. And then you, and I don't mean stage and sense of cancer, but you've got the asbestosis then [00:33:00] perhaps you end up with, um, the, these little. Uh, pockets in your lungs and then potentially mesothelioma. However, inhalation is not the only method of entry into the body.

[00:33:15] Handyman Bob Strong: Uh, you don't want to ingest it either because just as it, uh, affects the, the, uh, lining of the lungs, it can affect the, uh, stomach, the stomach and all of the organs. So it, you don't wanna be eating the. Eric. Yeah.

[00:33:30] Eric Goranson: Eric, Don eating that. Exactly.

[00:33:33] Handyman Bob Strong: yeah. Stop eating that stuff. Eric. I know your beard is getting a little whiter.

[00:33:38] Handyman Bob Strong: My friend you've been eating from the asbestos white

[00:33:41] Eric Goranson: as again. That's what it's well, you know, okay. I have a question for you, Bob. Cuz I see this. Um, I was in talking to a local. Portland high school here, Benson Polytechnic to, uh, their high school class over [00:34:00] there. And you know, Mr. Mr. Dean over there. Yep.

[00:34:03] Eric Goranson: Who is the teacher? Uh, I'm walking down the halls of this school and it's a temporary school cuz they are remodeling the, the school that, that Benson is in. And so they're in a temporary school, but I have not seen so much nine by. Floor tile in a building, as I've seen in this, and I'm looking up and I'm seeing the steamlines for the boiler that are wrapped around the pipes in the ceiling.

[00:34:30] Eric Goranson: And, you know, for the heating system in this school. what are the risks that we see with that stuff still installed in buildings like this? And I'm not, and I wanna be very clear here. I'm not asking about the risks of this building specifically. I understand, but what are the risks that, uh, that we see in buildings in general with this stuff that's still installed and, and not technically disturbed?

[00:34:56] Handyman Bob Strong: Well, it's a great question. Um, and [00:35:00] it is. It is our school buildings. And in fact, that brought our attention to asbestos and started the first rules of asbestos. The regulation is referred to as a, it's an acronym that, um, a addresses it in an emergency act. Um, And it is, it is a rule that requires every school building in America.

[00:35:35] Handyman Bob Strong: Um, and I think it even, I think it refers to, uh, preschools as well, but definitely the interior of all school buildings have to be inspected. Um, first with an initial inspection and I think it's every two to three years, we don't get involved with it here. Inspections. Yeah. So my, my, um, I'm a little fuzzy on my [00:36:00] history with it, but just know that there is a full inventory of every.

[00:36:07] Handyman Bob Strong: Either presumed asbestos containing material. We refer to that as P ACM or asbestos containing material. We refer to that as ACM in every school building throughout America. Uh, the maintenance staff knows exactly where every piece of it is. And on a recurring basis, uh, an inspector such as our company, it would go through.

[00:36:36] Handyman Bob Strong: Uh, go back over that inventory and make sure that the condition of that asbestos containing material has not degraded since the last inspection. Now, how did this all come about? Well, we, at least as the story goes, the janitors at five o'clock in the morning were wiping [00:37:00] the dust off of the surface. Of all of the children's desks and the teacher's desk, uh, you know, before anybody got there, nobody knew they were doing this, but it was being done every morning.

[00:37:14] Handyman Bob Strong: Well, where was that coming from? Well, it was coming from the asbestos. Ceiling tiles in the, in the classrooms mm-hmm and in the hallways. And that was, that was where we began to realize, wait a minute, takes a whole lot of this stuff in these schools. And a whole section of law was written. To protect school children and the people in the schools.

[00:37:38] Handyman Bob Strong: So that's, that's really kind of the Genesis of, of, uh, of our inspection programs and

[00:37:45] Caroline Blazovsky: our, and our generation Bob. So, you know, I'm approaching the big five zero, which I'm scared to say out loud, but I'm saying it, but we

[00:37:53] Handyman Bob Strong: were all excited. You're just a, you're just a baby. I wish

[00:37:58] Caroline Blazovsky: tell that to my [00:38:00] bones, but anyway, I, uh, I think we all went to school and were around all of this asbestos that was not cared for.

[00:38:09] Caroline Blazovsky: I mean, I remember walking through all the nine by nine tiles in the, in right. Eric, don't you like? I don't, we, yeah. All the, oh yeah, open plumbing. And like the janitorial staff was just like, you'd walk by. And like the, the service room was open. The mechanical room was open and you see this stuff just blowing around.

[00:38:25] Caroline Blazovsky: It's terrible. Yeah. And, and how that's gonna impact the good news. We don't know. I

[00:38:28] Eric Goranson: mean, we're, it's the good news with the flooring is, is there is usually, you know, a 16th inch of old floor wax over the top of it. Right. I mean, you know, it was the guy out there riding the buffer all evening and all morning before the kids got there, putting on the latest Kodo wax on that floor to make it look good.

[00:38:48] Eric Goranson: But, uh, the, the ceiling tiles, as Bob said, were a whole other discussion, you know, when you got. Because there was no air filtration in these schools, either because many times they were boiler systems. Mm-hmm they just had [00:39:00] boiler heat. So there air infiltrate, air, air filtration, there's no forced air. So there was nothing to take anything outta the air.

[00:39:07] Eric Goranson: It was a sealed box with, uh, that stuff trapping. But I wonder if

[00:39:10] Caroline Blazovsky: that was better for us though, because this stuff wasn't blowing around as much either because we weren't using this force to air, it was just kind of settling wherever it settled. we didn't have to deal with, uh, until

[00:39:20] Eric Goranson: they cleaned

[00:39:20] Handyman Bob Strong: it up.

[00:39:20] Handyman Bob Strong: Right. You. Eric, you have just given the perfect description of the difference between fryable and non fryable. Those nine by nine tiles. Um, they can remain under your feet all day, all night, 24 hours a day. You can, you can sleep on them. Um, you know, I've heard people say, yeah, I can lick the tile and you can't get any asbestos out of it.

[00:39:44] Handyman Bob Strong: And that's probably true. It is that the matrix that vinyl matrix binds that asbestos so tight, not so much with the ceiling, those ceilings, and I've only had occasion to test one of them. It was in an old commercial building [00:40:00] here in Southeast Portland. Um, and apparently it had been, um, had been installed very similar to what was in the schools.

[00:40:09] Handyman Bob Strong: What I found was almost a chicken wire matrix, uh, into which, uh, a very high concentration of asbestos containing material had either been sprayed or tred, I don't know which I don't know how it was appli. but it was so soft. Did either of you ever throw a pencil up to see if you could get it to stick in the ceiling or, uh, oh yeah.

[00:40:36] Handyman Bob Strong: They used to do the guys used to do that all the

[00:40:37] Eric Goranson: time. Yes. . What are you talking about? Well,

[00:40:42] Handyman Bob Strong: it was that soft and. That was, that was the, so when I'm talking about ceiling tiles, I'm not talking about the, the ones that drop into the metal grid. This is yep. These are the 12 inch ones. Yeah. Yeah. This was something that actually got put up there [00:41:00] in place.

[00:41:00] Handyman Bob Strong: And, uh, it was just super soft. In fact, I had to ask some questions cause I had never seen one before. Haven't seen one since it was. Um, uh, but now I understand why it was so hazardous to our. But I

[00:41:15] Eric Goranson: see Bob, I see those in old homes where maybe that old plaster ceiling was failing. And in the, in the fifties and sixties, they put those same 12 by 12 type tiles up in that, in that home to cover up that

[00:41:28] Handyman Bob Strong: ceiling.

[00:41:29] Handyman Bob Strong: Absolutely. And just as important when, when thinking about the tile itself, that fiber tile, um, usually those were stuck up with a glue dot and those glue dots. Um, may or may not have asbestos in them. So, uh, testing the tile is only a piece of it. You gotta get one of the whole ones down so that you can test the adhesive holding it there.

[00:41:54] Handyman Bob Strong: That's why I say from 1940 to 1980 [00:42:00] asbestos was ubiquitous. It was in everything. It was in your roofing materials. It was in your adhesives. It was in the caulking. It was in. Um, textures. It wa it potentially was in that plaster that you just mentioned. However, unique to everything that I read is that I should be finding asbestos in plaster samples in the last six and a half years since I started the company.

[00:42:29] Handyman Bob Strong: I have tested thousands of samples of plaster. I can count on two hands because the total is six. Um, I only have five digits on one of my hands, so, um, so I count on you'd live

[00:42:45] Eric Goranson: up by me by the hand for nuclear reservation, then digits there we

[00:42:51] Handyman Bob Strong: have, uh, we've only found six samples that had asbestos in them. If you read the books, You find that asbestos was [00:43:00] used extensively in plaster Carolina. I think the books were written on the east coast. Mm

[00:43:06] Caroline Blazovsky: mm-hmm great. As look at plaster walls, walls all around me.

[00:43:10] Handyman Bob Strong: absolutely. That's where I'm told that you'll find asbestos in plaster out here.

[00:43:15] Handyman Bob Strong: What do we find? Well, we're a hundred years behind the east coast. So you find horse hair mm-hmm yep. We were still riding horses when they were putting asbestos into the plaster out there. Yeah.

[00:43:27] Eric Goranson: You know, something it's interesting, Bob, cuz it's you're right. And it's almost like lead paint shows up in tests.

[00:43:35] Eric Goranson: It's many times the, the, the finer materials. Right. And, oh, absolutely. And you can find lead paint depending on the paint store in the neighborhood. Right. Because if you had a salesperson at the local neighborhood paint store that had that high end led paint and loved selling it to everybody. You can find pockets where there're as heavy laid lead paint use [00:44:00] in this neighborhood and maybe 12 blocks away.

[00:44:03] Eric Goranson: There's a significantly less of that because that paint store was maybe a different style of neighborhood or a different class of neighborhood. And they didn't use that higher grade of

[00:44:14] Handyman Bob Strong: materials. Well, lead paint was very expensive. Lead based paint was very expensive. So, uh, we, we know going in to. Uh, some of the upper end neighborhoods that will likely find lead based paint when testing for it.

[00:44:33] Handyman Bob Strong: Um, in the, um, in the Sears robot kit, home neighborhoods, I guess that's the best way to describe it? Uh, not so much, you know, so you're absolutely right, but it was, it was a high end product and people with the money paid more for. And quite frankly, it served them well because it lasted a long [00:45:00] time against the weather.

[00:45:01] Handyman Bob Strong: It also hardened the paint. So you find it a lot on the interior, on the millwork extensively, because it was a nice, hard finish and lasted forever.

[00:45:14] Eric Goranson: You know, it's funny, Bob, I can drive past my parents' old house. The first one I grew up in up until I was eight that was painted in the early seventies by my.

[00:45:24] Eric Goranson: I can drive by that house today in Kennewick Washington. And that paint is still on the metal sighting that's there. And that paint is still on

[00:45:35] that

[00:45:35] Handyman Bob Strong: house today. Yeah, well , it was, it was good paint. uh, what's, what's the downside, the downside with lead based paint, as we all know is that it flakes, it ships ultimately.

[00:45:48] Handyman Bob Strong: And, um, it, it gets into, uh, into the ground and it's, it's harmful to, um, us, if we eat the vegetables because [00:46:00] they uptake the lead. Uh, if children come by and, uh, stick a piece of it in their mouth and taste it, we're talking a little kiddies now. Or maybe it's just, uh, sissy is standing at the front window with her hands on the window, sill the interior ledge of the window, uh, waiting for daddy to come home.

[00:46:20] Handyman Bob Strong: Uh, mom says, Hey, come get a PB and J so she sticks a half a sandwich in Sissy's hand, sissy hasn't washed her hands. So she's intaking or ingest. The lead dust from that lead based paint as well. So yeah, the, the route of entry, um, and, and the, the methodology. And, and did they do good? Yeah, it was, it was a great product.

[00:46:46] Handyman Bob Strong: Does it have a downside? Absolutely. Unfortunately. And Caroline, you alluded to this a little while ago. What are we doing today? That. 50 years from now, we're gonna say, how could we have been so [00:47:00] stupid or worse than that? Our kids and grandkids are gonna say, how could they have been so dumb

[00:47:05] Caroline Blazovsky: and we're doing it?

[00:47:06] Caroline Blazovsky: I mean, we know you knows dust is a big thing now that I've had to test for, and probably something you've tested for, but silica dust is becoming, you know, the next kind of asbestos it's. So homes are. Laden with it. They do construction. They don't clean it up. It sits in the duct work. It starts blowing out through the environment.

[00:47:25] Caroline Blazovsky: On top of that, then we've got glyphosate, which is something that, which those people who don't know it's, you know, round up is these herbicides that we use are ending up in our duct work. So. There's never gonna be as time when we're not employed, Bob for sure.

[00:47:39] Handyman Bob Strong: you're you're absolutely indeed deployment.

[00:47:43] Handyman Bob Strong: yeah. We've uh, we've confined ours to the world of asbestos. It keeps us full-time busy, but, uh, somebody who. Does, um, broad spectrum testing like you, uh, you do most of yours, uh, through air [00:48:00] sampling,

[00:48:00] Caroline Blazovsky: don't you? It depends. It depends what it is. You know, it all varies sometimes, you know, we do water testing.

[00:48:05] Caroline Blazovsky: We do air sampling. We do swab testing lifts. Um, we do chemical testing. So sob and tubes, it really depends what we're testing for. It varies depending on what we're looking for. So, um,

[00:48:15] Handyman Bob Strong: boy, that sounded like a commercial .

[00:48:19] Eric Goranson: Yeah, thanks. Well, you know, yeah. Well, yeah, it's, it's interesting too, Bob, you know, when you get into this, um, I wonder.

[00:48:28] Eric Goranson: Is fiberglass insulation gonna be something down the road. And again, I have, no, I have no.

[00:48:34] Caroline Blazovsky: Yeah, we test for it now. And it's there. Like the biggest thing is when, when people have open batting, like I. When I test air it's one of the things, there's a couple things that I automatically test for silica dust is one of them now fiberglass.

[00:48:49] Caroline Blazovsky: But when you, you know, when people have basements and they're unfinished and they just leave the open batting down there, it's coming up in your air sample and they go, well, where's the fiberglass. I'm like, you've got open batting and they go, oh yeah, I do. Right. [00:49:00] It's in my basement. So it just gets airborne and you're breathing it

[00:49:03] Handyman Bob Strong: in.

[00:49:03] Handyman Bob Strong: Yeah, absolutely. It's, it's so fascinating because the, uh, the rules that we. Uh, we go by as far as the asbestos is concerned and why we're testing for it. Uh, is to keep it out of the transfer station to keep it out of the, out of the dumps out of the, the waste stream, if you will. And there is a specific exclusion for rock wall or mineral woo as they refer to it and ASBE, and, um, fiberglass insulation.

[00:49:37] Handyman Bob Strong: So we know that if it's, if it looks like fiberglass and it. White pink or yellow or it's black because that's mineral. It, we don't even need to bother testing for it because there's a full exemption on that. I think you're absolutely right, Caroline, where are we gonna be? 50 years from now, as we see people with [00:50:00] these, these class fiber, uh, issues, the, the substantive difference, I believe, and based on the reading I've done is that at least the body is somewhat able to get rid of that glass fiber.

[00:50:16] Handyman Bob Strong: Um, it, it, it doesn't have barbs on it. Like the, uh, asbestos does. There

[00:50:23] Eric Goranson: you go. As I'm looking at my ceiling of my mineral wool insulation in my garage,

[00:50:32] Caroline Blazovsky: I'm, don't,

[00:50:36] Caroline Blazovsky: I'm feeling like I don't wanna breathe right now. I'm like, I'm like looking around going, oh man, um, Bob, the problem we have in the Northeast, um, we don't have a lot of good asbestos contractors anymore. I remember about 10 years ago, having someone who had one of my clients had a massive, uh, asbestos problem.

[00:50:54] Caroline Blazovsky: and there was nobody to refer them to, like, it was like they just stopped doing remediation and there's very [00:51:00] few companies doing it anymore. A lot of people have gone into mold and restoration and that kind of thing, but not asbestos. Is that a problem that we're gonna see moving forward

[00:51:07] Handyman Bob Strong: having don't because we do not have that issue out here.

[00:51:12] Handyman Bob Strong: That's the first I've heard of it. Um, however, if I were to just speculate, I'd say, you know what? Asbestos carries with it currently much higher risk of litigation down the road than say dealing with a mold issue, which in some states is an unregulated, uh, remediation, uh, abatement of asbestos is a highly regulated.

[00:51:38] Handyman Bob Strong: Trade. So it may very well be that people are, uh, moving out of it to avoid some of the risk of litigation.

[00:51:48] Eric Goranson: Yeah.

[00:51:49] Caroline Blazovsky: Yeah. I saw it years ago and I don't like, honestly, I haven't looked so recently, but I remember going back about 10 years ago, you couldn't find anybody to do it. It was a nightmare. There was like one [00:52:00] company and that was reputable and good.

[00:52:01] Caroline Blazovsky: There were a couple companies that were like, you know, not the greatest, um, I would say on the shady side, but yeah, it was a problem and I'm sure it still is

[00:52:09] Handyman Bob Strong: may very well be, but we, we have not encountered that yet. Fortunately. And, uh, um, I. Am delighted that we have a very deep bench of asbestos abatement contractors.

[00:52:26] Handyman Bob Strong: Mm-hmm um, the bench of asbestos. Yeah, me too. Building inspectors is getting deeper too.

[00:52:37] Caroline Blazovsky: I've got plenty of stuff for you to inspect. Bob, just come on over. I'll train you right up and you'll be good to go.

[00:52:43] Eric Goranson: Bob we're talking, you know, Oregon and of course, Carolina, New Jersey here, but across the country, you know, for the whole listening audience out there, it's a state by state thing. Yes.

[00:52:53] Eric Goranson: There are some states that take this seriously and others are looking the other way.

[00:52:58] Handyman Bob Strong: Absolutely. And in fact, [00:53:00] we occasionally will have, uh, a call from somebody from out of state who has been hired by a, uh, a commercial real, um, Retail establishment. Yep. To do a fit up in a, in a shopping mall someplace a, a tenant improvement.

[00:53:22] Handyman Bob Strong: Yep. Um, they'll give us a call and say, Hey, I've got all of this debris sitting here and now I can't get a dumpster. Okay. Well, any damage that was gonna be done to their crew has already been done. um, the good news is in most shopping malls, they're so new that asbestos was what not being used, although we do occasionally still find it.

[00:53:44] Handyman Bob Strong: But these are folks from out of state. And I just shake my head and say, how you know, why do they not know? What is it about their state that makes them different? And I'm gonna tell you that the one that [00:54:00] really surprised me the most and we had, it's a recurring thing is the state of California. These contractors are coming up from California and they say, you know, we go into these shopping malls in our own home state.

[00:54:13] Handyman Bob Strong: We just get a dumpster and throw this stuff away. Um, I don't know whether to believe them or not, but they're certainly coming here and trying to do the same thing. And it's just, you know, state of Oregon says, mm, no, don't think so. And they've got their training has been so good since, uh, that January 1st, 2016 date that we were talking about that they.

[00:54:34] Handyman Bob Strong: The landfills trained. They have the, uh, transfer stations trained. They have the commercial waste haulers trained. They've got here's one for you. They've got home Depot trained to the point where, uh, the home Depot, uh, uh, carpet installer is gonna come out and he says, I can't put down carpet until you have that floor tested.

[00:54:58] Handyman Bob Strong: Yep. [00:55:00] absolutely. So, yeah, it's, it's amazing. It's it? We live in a, um, I, I think this state is really kind of on the bleeding edge. Um, state of Washington is right up there with them. We do we work both, both states. Yeah.

[00:55:17] Eric Goranson: And it's something that you

[00:55:19] Caroline Blazovsky: are so much stricter out there with everything. I mean, New Jersey and think about it.

[00:55:24] Caroline Blazovsky: Asbestos came from New Jersey. I mean, it John's Manville was here and I definitely think we should be way, way, way more strict than we are. I mean, I. You need a license to, you know, remove it. That's obviously the state benefits from that, but I don't really see strict guidelines here

[00:55:41] Handyman Bob Strong: for, it's interesting to say that because, um, we are one of the last nations in the, I, I'm not sure how to describe it.

[00:55:51] Handyman Bob Strong: It's not, I guess, in the industrialized world. Yeah. Where it's even a legal commodity. It's it's illegal. [00:56:00] Mm-hmm Eric, you'll appreciate this. Um, matter of fact, you might have been the one who turned me onto an article about, uh, trying to, uh, import into Australia, uh, muscle cars, muscle cars had a lot of asbestos in headliners, uh, firewalls.

[00:56:19] Handyman Bob Strong: Breaks clutches, things like that. You perhaps on the exhaust. Yep. Yep. It's gonna take $10,000 to have that qu torn down part by part by part and any asbestos containing part replaced with, uh, uh, uh, uh, uh, third replacement, 10,000 bucks, just to get it into Australia. They are dead serious about not having any importation of ABES.

[00:56:48] Eric Goranson: and they force you to make it right. Hand drives like the rest of their cars as well. So you have to convert that dash of that, uh, 63 Corvette split window to, uh, be driving on the other [00:57:00] side. It ain't cheap.

[00:57:01] Handyman Bob Strong: I bet not I bet not. But you know, when you, uh, in your, in the next iteration, because of your love of muscle cars and the like mm-hmm , I can see you doing that show next.

[00:57:18] Eric Goranson: In my spare time, right? Bob in your spare ,

[00:57:22] Handyman Bob Strong: it'll just be like that graveyard show that you and I used to watch in the studio from time to time.

[00:57:29] Eric Goranson: Absolutely. Absolutely. Well, Bob, we are running out of time today. This is always the fastest hour of radio. As you have always said for the. 15 years or so, but, uh, how do people track down your company if they're in Oregon, Washington and want to have your team come out and, uh, check to see what's ugly on their job

[00:57:50] Handyman Bob Strong: site?

[00:57:51] Handyman Bob Strong: Easiest way, go to our website and Viro test dot B. Iz stands for business. We, we don't spell it. [00:58:00] Right. And Viro tests, all one word dot B. I.

[00:58:04] Eric Goranson: There we go, Bob. Thanks for coming on today, brother. You are such an around the house veteran and this show would not be here today without your decade of heart. He is around the house.

[00:58:16] Eric Goranson: What are you feeling? He is around the house. You got it.

[00:58:18] Caroline Blazovsky: And thank you for not making me feel like a third wheel. Because I certainly could have

[00:58:22] Eric Goranson: been

[00:58:24] Handyman Bob Strong: Carolina was such a pleasure meeting you in person. It, it was great. Thanks guys. Really appreciate

[00:58:31] Eric Goranson: it. Well, Bob, you know how this, you know how the rest of this goes?

[00:58:35] Eric Goranson: I'm Eric G. I'm

[00:58:37] Caroline Blazovsky: Caroline B

[00:58:38] Handyman Bob Strong: I'm handyman, Bob, and you've been listening to,

[00:58:42] Eric Goranson: to around the house