Welcome to the VP

Live podcast, the

show where we

bring you

actionable health

advice for

revealing minds.

I'm your

host, Rob.

My guest today is

Justin McGuire, a

South

African-based

holistic health

and performance

coach who works

with clients to

help them

optimize all

aspects of their

health and lives.

Today's

conversation

centers around

how the immune

system ultimately

governs

metabolism.

And while we

certainly get

into the weeds

today, I really

encourage you to

listen through,

as the

information

Justin provides

is nothing short

of pure gold.

Expect to learn

how the immune

system actually

operates, why

chronic

inflammation

might actually be

the cause of

weight gain in so

many populations,

and Justin's top

picks for

nutrients that

help to improve

immune system

function.

Now, on to the

conversation with

Justin McGuire.

Hey, Justin,

thanks for

being here.

We've rubbed

shoulders over

the years, but

we've never

really sat down

to have a

conversation

as such.

So I'm excited to

have this

opportunity to

pick your brain

on this topic,

which is

something I'm

becoming more and

more passionate

about by the day.

And that's this

concept of

immunomatabolism.

The idea, loosely

speaking, that

the metabolism is

mediated, to some

degree, by the

immune system and

vice versa.

And again, just

the idea that

subsequently a

lot of disease

can be viewed

through this lens

and potentially

solved through

this lens

as well.

I know for the

listeners that

that probably

sounds pretty

convoluted, but I

promise we'll

break it down

shortly.

First, though,

I'd love to learn

a little more

about you.

I know through

something of your

story, through

our mutual friend

Ben Law, that

beyond that, I'm

ashamed to say I

don't actually

know too much

about your

backstory, but

I'd love to

understand a bit

more about how

you ended up in

this sort of

integrative

health and

performance

space.

It's good

to be here.

Thank you, Rob.

Looking forward

to sharing some

insight.

So my story is an

interesting one.

I just actually

had a

conversation with

one of my

metaphysicians.

And yes, I'm

probably the most

hippie scientist

you're ever going

to come across.

And in our

conversation this

morning, it was

the fact that

I've literally

gone through four

major personas

just during this

one single

lifetime itself.

So my previous

persona narrative

was very

different as

opposed to whom I

am now today.

And I think this

can, many people,

not many, but

some may attest

to having

experienced the

contrast of self.

So my former life

in my 20s and my

teens, I was

competitive in

the fitness world

and bodybuilding

and martial arts

and so on.

I was a personal

trainer.

And it served

purpose

for a while.

However, it

didn't provide me

with the mental

stimulus that I

inherently was

craving.

Suffice to say,

like a soul,

well, again,

maybe not like a

soul, these

definitive

statements really

get me sometimes.

And the more

conscious you

become, the more

aware you are of

the words you

choose to use.

For some of us,

we go through

dark nights of

assault, some of

which are

self-inflicted in

terms of the

sequence of

events that

lead to it.

Others are

inflicted

upon us.

But for whatever

reason it is that

we, or however it

is that we end up

there, we go

through a moment

of reflection.

So that happened

in my 30th and

31st year,

between the 30

and the 31st year

of my life.

And then shortly

thereafter,

having gone

through that very

extreme moment in

my life, of which

the majority of

it was actually

impacted by my

own poor

decisions,

admittedly.

But not knowing

as to, at that

time in my life,

not knowing as to

why it is that I

had a propensity

to create, to

have, to choose

wrongly.

And only later on

that I started to

discover that

there were so

many more layers

into the

complexity of

life,

particularly our

lives, that can

influence one's

perception and

thus one's own

personal

identity.

And when we are

in a state of

water pilot, and

particularly if

we're not

self-conscious,

we're not

conscious of

self, not

self-conscious,

we're not

conscious of

self, it can lead

us astray.

So in any case, I

would let myself

astray based upon

a whole lot of

variables that

are unnecessary

to divulge into,

because it's not

about what led

you there, it's

the fact that it

happened, and

what are you

gonna do

about it?

Where taking

responsibility

requires letting

go of things that

got you there,

but taking full

hold of what it

is that you were,

or what it is

that you are, and

wanting to

change, unless

you don't

want to change.

And if life is

going the right

direction, I want

me to keep on

doing what it is

that you feel

necessary, but

mine wasn't.

And I was

confronted with

an opportunity to

either pass away,

because

literally, that's

how thin my

lifeline was, or

to make a change.

And I made a

change, and

subsequently

making a change,

and the universe

really threw a

spanner into the

works and

challenged me to

yet

another degree.

And about 18

months after I'd

made a change,

I went through a

bit of a depth,

an emotional

depth that

resulted in a...

What happens when

you've been

sober, and then

you slip up?

Oh, come on, it's

such a

simple word.

Uh, this is like

the blind,

in the blind.

Relapse, relapse,

relapse.

Gosh, it's just

the simplest

words, right?

It's just funny.

So it resulted,

this is what

happens off the

COVID, right?

It's like all the

complex words, no

problem, but the

simple things of

joining krumjags

is like really

the word you

wanna...

And perhaps I've

blocked it out of

my psyche, to

some

extent, as well.

Yeah, this is

where you just

eat all the urode

monophosphate and

just pray, yeah,

and I can

understand that.

(Laughing) So anyway, it

resulted in a

relapse.

And in that

relapse, I had

to, once again,

revisit what it

was that I had

not been

addressing.

And I think as

many men, from

our generation at

least, and

generations

prior, we were

taught to pretty

much suppress the

expression of

emotions and to

just

tough it out.

Blood-swayed

interiors is the

motto of our

generation.

So yeah, with

that, just the

avoidance sets

in, right?

So you'll find

elaborate ways to

avoid what's

actually going on

within yourself,

particularly by

way of expression

of ego, which

didn't help much,

I'm grateful for

my body, which

that's

like I have.

But in being able

to build muscle

quite quickly, I

was able to build

up a persona and

ego to avoid a

lot of things

really

easily as well.

(Laughing) So, and see

whether the

relapse happened,

came out of that,

and things then

really started to

settle for me,

like really

started to shift.

The foundation

started to shift

into a whole new

dimension of

self-experience.

And then

subsequently, I

was doing really

well, and then

literally six

months

thereafter, yet

another layer of

complexity.

The universe is

like, okay, you

ready for the

next test?

You ready for the

next test?

You ready for the

next test?

And then I

developed

Polymalgeoromatica.

Now this is an

autoimmune

disease that

mostly afflicts

people over the

age of 55.

It's an extreme

debilitating

autoimmune

condition, this

chronic low grade

inflammation that

impacts not only

pain in the body,

but also causes a

lot of

neuroinflammatory

outcomes and

symptoms.

So I went to

every specialist,

I mean, I spent

money that I

didn't have to

try and get into

the best

specialist.

And 12th of the

best specialists

in the country

later, I was told

it's all

psychosomatic.

Now, I mean, the

intensity of the

pain was so bad

that I literally

couldn't sleep

for three or five

days at a time.

So it had three

or five days of

perpetual

insomnia.

Long story short,

this sounds like

a big dramatic

narrative, and I

would actually

cut it short

because it's not

about that.

It's about what

it actually

taught me.

And what it

taught me is

that, no matter

how good the

intention of the

person, because I

don't believe any

of these

specialists, and

this is where the

polarity of

fitness

communities or

biohacking

communities or

precision

medicine or

functional

medicine

communities can

really lead

people astray.

Doctors are not

at fault.

I'm gonna make

the statement

right there.

Doctors are not

at fault.

Like to get into

medical school,

do you know how

much discipline

and dedication it

requires?

Literally

finishing it.

It's not the

intention of

these individuals

to not

help people.

It's actually the

intention to be

of service.

It's the

institution that

is the problem.

And the

institution has

led people astray

into

compartmentalizing

their health.

And because I

wasn't able to be

fit in, because

they weren't able

to fit me

into a box.

Paradigm, yeah.

Into a paradigm,

I became the

psychosomatic

patient.

Despite all the

symptoms that

we're saying

otherwise.

Yes, most

certainly there

is some truth to

that as well.

I won't say that

they were

entirely wrong.

There is most

certainly some

truth to it.

But the truth

came in that,

yes, there were

some psycho,

there were many,

not some, there

were many

psychological

traumas that were

coming up to the

surface, which

were expressing

themselves

on my body.

I didn't know

this at the time.

I mean, this is

like, you know, I

was a bodybuilder

two years prior

to that.

Competing, sorry,

a year

prior to that.

I had done my

last

bodybuilding show.

So I was in that

whole fitness

community, like,

you know, Grant

Go, Grant and Go,

5am Club, you

know, Hell's

Bells, off

your squat.

So I don't really

know like, you

know, like the

somatic impact

that can happen

from emotional

response.

I mean, I heard

of it, but I kind

of, to be honest

with you, I

thought it was a

bit of a hogwash.

I thought it was

like, it's the

things that

esoteric believe

in kind of

thing, right?

But a little bit,

I know how

truthful that

actually was.

So much

truth to it.

So it went wrong

that it was part,

it had

psychosomatic,

there was certain

elements of

psychosomatic

contribution

toward my state.

But this is where

like, again, in

the human

dualistic

perceptive

paradigm, we

separate things.

We forget that

there's actually

continuity in

everything.

And this is where

one of my

favorite writings

of all time, it's

actually an

essay, it's not a

book by Antoine

Fabre de la Vie,

and he wrote his

essay in the

late 1700s.

And the essay is

entitled, "The

Metaphysical and

Intellectual

Constitution

of Man."

Within this

essay, he has a

graphical

depiction of the

intersection.

Within his

semantics, he

doesn't use mind,

body and soul, he

uses soul, spirit

and body.

But basically

they depict what

we understand to

be mind, body and

soul, and the

difference of

emotional

intersect that

can happen

depending upon

where we are in

our state of

consciousness,

whether it is

more so in the

anima, the

animus, or

whether it's more

in God

consciousness and

everything in

between.

So in looking at

that model,

knowing that

whatever happens

to the mind

happens to the

body, certainly,

but whatever's

happening to the

body can

perpetuate what's

happening in the

mind as well.

And this is one

of the first big

pieces of the

puzzle that came

together.

I had probably,

I had done it on

my own, because I

didn't

have any help.

I went to

everybody and

they put me on

pregnancy zone

and they put me

on

anti-psychotics

and everything

else, which just

made me worse.

Yeah, so as I was

saying, so I

didn't have

pretty much any

help from the

specialists,

although they had

good attention,

they weren't able

to fit me into a

model, into

like a mold.

So I had to

pretty much

figure myself

out, which was

quite

frustrating,

because you look

into my

historical

education behind

biochemistry,

which I had a

very basic

biochemical, I

mean, it was

self-taught in

the early part of

my, I later on

got degrees, in

my thirties

subsequently

after this, I got

foundation

degrees and then

I got a

bachelor's and so

on at Biochem.

But in my

twenties, it's

very basic.

And I thought I

had to basically

start my whole

journey in

front of it.

But anyway, long

story short, when

the student is

ready, the

teacher will

appear, and along

my journey, I

started to be, I

was introduced to

certain function

medicine doctors,

integrated

medicine doctors,

all of which

actually provided

educational

resources as

well, which I put

myself through,

when I had the

financial reasons

to do so, which

was quite tough.

I mean, as you

probably are

aware of, having

had long haul

COVID-19 for two

years, it's

really difficult

to manage earning

a living whilst

being chronically

fatigued, right?

And brain fog to

boot on top of

that, let alone

the physical pain

that can also

sporadically

creep in when

there's not

enough cortisol

to mitigate the

inflammation.

So I did what I

could, and it was

a journey.

It was probably

the best PhD I've

ever earned in

life going

through that

journey,

which birthed the

opportunity to

start autonomic

coaching.

And autonomic

coaching is a

conceptual birth

child of mine,

within which I

truly am trying

to continue to

expand a honest

interdisciplinary

approach.

Because again, I

just wanna

emphasize,

doctors are not

at fault.

You can't blame,

it's like putting

somebody in a

label and saying

because they put

11 years of their

life into

educating

themselves to do

a certain

discipline, now

they're evil.

Like where's the

logic of that?

They're

not at fault.

It's just that

there are many

other ways apart

from allopathy as

to how one can

approach

remedying for

health, okay?

And this is where

autonomic

coaching comes

in, and we

provide

allopathic

support, we

provide

naturopathic

support, we

provide

psychological

support, we

provide lifestyle

coaching as well.

So it's the whole

kitchen computer,

the whole

paradigm to

support the

individual.

This is where

inductive

reasoning is, we

are able to

enable inductive

reasoning within

this paradigm.

You know,

evidence-based

medicine is based

on the reductive

model so that one

can take

deductive

outcomes from it,

which is great

for the populace,

for the masses.

But there's a

shortfall within

the outliers of

those who don't

fit into

the mold.

And this is where

inductive

reasoning

comes in.

So most of the

people that come

to see us,

come to see us

after they've

been to many

different

practitioners,

alternative as

well as

conventional, and

they just haven't

gotten

the result.

That they, well,

they haven't been

given their

life back.

Do we help, are

we successful

with all of those

we help?

No, we're not,

but are we

successful with the

majority of them?

Yes, we are.

And those who

we're not

successful with,

we have got an

extensive network

that we are able

to get solutions

to people.

And this is, the

reason why I'm

also putting this

out there is to

not allude anyone

to the idea that

we are the

holy grail.

Okay, there is no

such thing.

If something

doesn't work with

a certain

specialist or a

certain thought

process, don't

give up.

That's the

message I'm

trying to

put out there.

If anybody is

growing through a

tough time and

they've tried

everything, which

is impossible, is

to try everything

you need multiple

lifetimes.

Okay,

don't give up.

Like, have faith

and truly like

the power of, I'm

not religious,

but I'm very

spiritual.

And whether you

are or you're

not, I think it's

irrelevant to the

question.

Sometimes this

process is a

process of

positive

introspection,

positive

psychology can

really shift the

narrative of

where it is that

you're willing to

invest your

energy into.

So yes, we

help most.

Do we help

everyone know?

But that doesn't

mean that there

isn't a solution

for everybody.

And I think as a

community of

professionals,

health

professionals,

we're making, as

we are coming

together more and

more so, like

every year I see

that there's

better

cooperation and

less competition

happening.

And the stronger

that we can

create

cooperation, the

more likely that

we can do away

with states such

as

neurodiversity,

or at least

reduce the degree

in the percentile

of those who are

neurodivergent in

the populace,

which is, I mean,

just that, that

label alone, that

category needs so

much new

care, right?

Because the

levels of autism

have rise, the

level of

depression

has rise.

You know, despite

the fact that

Western medical

technologies have

been approved

upon, we're still

having an influx

of these

particular

states, which

need not be if we

can come together

and unify our

skill sets within

a paradigm that's

truly holistic.

That's holistic.

You know, there's

that word thrown

around, way too

easily has been

thrown around for

decades, but what

does it

really mean?

You know, and

what I believe

means is simply

the embodiment of

cooperation

throughout

different

disciplines.

That's holistic.

It's not one

discipline,

during many

different things

in the body, is

many disciplines

supporting the

complexity

of the body.

So that's where I

came, and that's

where the

business is here.

(Laughing) That's

incredible.

And I think

you've already

answered most of

my follow-ups.

What I really

want to sort of

just jump back at

you on is just

sort of your

thoughts on the

education model,

because when it

comes to sort of

traditional

medicine, and I'm

definitely not

qualified or also

smart enough to

make a judgment

call on the way

medicines talk,

but I have a

feeling you are,

or at least you

have some

insights

into the system.

And the way I

view it is

exactly the way

you view it, to

an extent.

I think that

physicians have

the best

intentions at

heart, but they

put into this

mold, they put

this state of

having to

function based on

a set of

guidelines and a

set of

principles, and

that's

very myopic.

And it causes

this very sort of

siloed approach

to healthcare,

which just

doesn't work.

And I've said

this before on

the podcast, I'm

sure you've said

it before on

others, but I do

think it

needs to change.

If you were, this

is a bit of a hot

take, but if you

were sort of

given carte

blanche as to how

you would

potentially

re-engineer the

way medicines

talk, what would

you put more an

emphasis on,

excuse me?

What would you

sort of take an

emphasis off?

How would you

sort of, briefly,

because I mean,

this could take

us down to a

whole other

rabbit hole, but

how would you

sort of recreate

medicine to

become from a

model standpoint,

to be more

effective and to

help more people?

Move away from a

predominant

statistical

machine at the

ideology.

Evidence-based

medicine, now

we're talking

about

conventional

Western medicine.

We're not talking

about alternative

medicine, such as

Chinese medicine

and naturopathy

or homeopathy,

but we're talking

about Western

medicine, and it

really started

off really well.

And being the

known illusion,

pharmacology is

not the demon.

It's just a

prayer of use,

that's the

problem.

As an example, if

you wanted the

word to be given

in excess of

belladonna,

that's also not

gonna be to any

benefit of

continuity

of health.

So it really is

like you can't

shout, "Oh, it's

a big farmer that

wants to

kill us all."

Well, no, a big

farmer is only a

cooperation,

okay?

A cooperation, a

cooperation.

It's a

cooperation.

And in being a

cooperation, it

has its profit

margins that it

needs to attain,

like any other

business.

But it's not,

it's like saying

BMW is to blame

for the road

accidents,

right?

All the deaths on

the road.

No, no, and you

can say, well,

you know, they

market their

drugs and they

try to get, they

push the

likelihood of

sale onto doctors

and so on.

But what else are

they meant to do?

If they didn't do

that, those

medicines

wouldn't also

reach people that

actually

do need it.

And this is where

the discernment

and improvement

of the sermon is

required with the

end health

practitioner,

meaning the

doctor, the

GP, right?

Everybody goes

and sees.

But the way in

which,

particularly when

it comes to like

socialistic

countries like

England or like

France, where the

healthcare is

free, right?

It's very much a

conveyor

belt system.

I have a friend

of mine who's a

doctor based in

Germany and

before he went

into private

practice, he said

that he had to

see 2,000 people

a month in order

to make, I think

it was like 8,000

euro a month.

2,000 people to

make 8,000

euro a month.

So it's like 10,

15 minutes, five

sometimes minute

consultations and

it's just in and

out, in and out.

So what are you

gonna do?

Like, I can't do

anything in 10

minutes.

Like I can have a

conversation with

somebody, but,

and if I look at

a lab report, I'm

probably gonna

look at like, you

know, single

markers and see

if there's

anything that

really

stands out.

I'm not gonna

have time to look

at correlation or

create a

correlation

analysis

by it all.

No way, because

there's no time.

And that design

at least, there

isn't any time.

So I think the

way in which to

nonetheless

support

organizational

construct in

terms of

financial

resources,

because we also

have to think

here, it's not

just about giving

everybody the

equal opportunity

of health.

That's a great, I

mean, that's a

wonderful,

wonderful

sentiment and

idea, but the

reality is in

order to do that,

we also have to

consider the

economics

of it all.

Okay, and the

economics of it

all mean that we

need to create

organizational

structures that

can provide a

personalized

service to some

degree, to a

greater degree

than is what

currently given,

but at the same

time, not

overburden the

financial

constraints of

these

organizations

that have been

set up by

different

governmental

organizations

across the world.

And I think the

way in which you

can do this is

by, biohacking is

most certainly,

it's not the

foolproof

structure, but it

definitely has

increased

consciousness

around wellness

for many

a people.

And one can also

argue that there

are gonna be

goods and bads to

everything, okay?

But however, if

we just take the

average, what

happens when the

person involved,

it gets involved

in a greater

state of

awareness of

what's going on

within

themselves, they

start to read

articles.

They start to

watch

YouTube videos.

They start to

engage with what

it is that's

actually going on

within

themselves.

Now, if we can

somewhat merge

that community

element, such as

what's happening

in biohacking

into a greater

community,

thereby not

creating the

necessity of

tribal mentality,

but doing away

with that tribal

mentality, but

still keeping the

underlying

positive premise

of it all, then

you can have one

doctor, for

example,

that has,

you know, somehow

a doctor manages

a particular

county in

England,

or say a

particular

village, not a

county, but a

particular

village in

England.

That doctor in

the current

construct of how

the NHS is set

up, patient eats

a book, comes and

sees a doctor on

a one-to-one.

But a one-to-one

is 10

minutes long.

But it doesn't,

you can't get

anywhere

with that.

So what about,

instead of having

this design,

you're having

single

consultation, you

have a group

model whereby the

doctor becomes

more proactively

involved in the

ongoing health of

the community,

right?

It sets certain

objectives, sets

certain

incentives for

the community to

elevate their

health together.

The biggest issue

that I see in

modern-day

psychological

health, at least,

is the separation

from man, from

man's self, is

isolation.

We live in a

world that's more

populated now

than ever before,

yet we are more

lonely than

ever before.

And that, just by

that on its own,

births many, many

a disease.

Okay, we're

beings, we're a

species that

needs embrace.

Okay, we're not

learned

creatures.

No matter what

anybody says,

this warrior

mentality, and go

sit on top of a

mountain and

meditate for

weeks or months

or years on end,

there may be,

there are a few

that have done

it, they can do

it, but whether

or not it's

healthy for a

person or not,

that's up

for debate.

And I don't

think,

personally, and

again, I'm not

omnipotent or

omnipresent

whatsoever, thank

God for that,

excuse the irony,

of what I just

said, but I do

believe that

humanity needs

more compassion,

and the only way

in which we can

improve upon the

medical system is

by implementing

consideration for

others in a

community

construct, really

bring the

community back

together.

So when something

happens, it's not

left to the nth

degree when

somebody's

completely

derailed, and

then they're

trying to have a

10 minute

consultation with

the doctor

to fix that.

Because this

faces it, things

don't just happen

overnight, unless

you catch like

typhoid fever,

by the way, most

deaths actually

occur from

non-communicable

diseases,

non-communicable

diseases.

78%, I think it

was in 86, I

can't remember,

but it's between

78 or 86, that

was the number

that I last saw

on the steps of

global

deaths, right?

Non-communicable

diseases is

responsible for

the majority of

deaths worldwide.

And by that you

mean things like

AOCVD, heart

disease, cancer,

et cetera.

Yeah, any disease

that's not caused

directly by a

pathogen assault.

Yeah.

So, methylene

blue, recovering

from COVID.

Not to be used

perpetually, but

the use of sort

of circumstances,

we had a

conversation

about this in the

second, as well.

We didn't need--

So things like

this, like you

know, certain

remedies, like

methylene blue,

that can be

destructive,

it most certainly

can cause harm if

it's used in the

wrong construct,

right?

But it most

certainly can

alleviate harm if

it's used in the

right construct.

But how do people

know this?

Like, I mean,

I've got degrees

in

biochemistry, right?

I've got degrees

in nutritional

science, but not

everybody has a

degree in

biochemistry and

nutritional

science, so now,

you know, you've

got the media

mention about its

potential

benefit, and

there are

incredible

benefits behind

this molecule.

It truly is a

molecule.

But we need more

of a community

for people to be

able to use these

remedies that

don't require a

script

successfully,

rather than use

it and feel

like crap.

Feel worse often

than they did

prior to

using it.

And this requires

more of a

community aspect.

And I think this

is the only way

in which we'll be

able to change

the trajectory of

modern-day

medicine.

When it comes to

like the

educational

component of it,

which is another

part of the

question

that you asked,

I think medical

school starts off

very well, but it

ends terribly.

(Laughs)

Sort of, yeah,

you sort of have

this sort of,

this base of

biochemistry or

physiology, and

then you slowly

sort of become a

trained

pharmacologist

where you start

to associate any

disease outcome

with a drug, and

that's

where you stop.

That seems to be

my take on it to

a large extent.

Well, the shame

in it all is that

it's even worse

so than that,

because it'd be

great if they had

more, most GPs

have six months

to maybe a year,

depending upon

which school you

go to, in

exposure to

pharmacological

studies.

Do you know this?

It's six months

to a year.

No, I didn't.

Maximum year.

Maximum year.

That's

incredible.

Which is crazy,

because if you

think about it, a

pharmacist, most,

unless you do,

some pharmacists

are able to write

scripts, but you

have to go

through extensive

post-grad

certification

processes, very

few of

them have it.

Yet, all doctors

are able to write

a script that

have less

knowledge than

the pharmacist

does on what it

is that they're

prescribing.

That's

disconcerting to

say the least.

And again, it's

not the fault of the

physician, is it?

No, it's not.

Definitely not

the fault of the

physician.

Yeah.

That was just a

perfect podcast

in

itself, Justin.

And I sort of, I

love the way you

took that, the

fact that we sort

of really sort

of, and I should

probably send

this to my father

because he was

involved in

community

development for

years, but it's

almost like we've

got to sort of

rethink the

paradigm

completely and

sort of place

more emphasis on

the community.

How you then go

about educating

the masses, for

the want of

better word, is

probably another

question best

left to

another day.

But it does

make sense,

bringing the

awareness of

health to the

individual, and

almost from a

preventative

standpoint.

So encouraging

people to take,

how do I

put this?

Encouraging

people to take

responsibility

for their own

health and

creating

messaging

around that.

And I think

that's where the

biohacking

community is

effective.

I think it does

get a bit lost in

the weeds in

terms of maybe

focusing on the

minutiae more

often than the

actual needle

movers, which

just aren't sexy

at the end of the

day, are they?

Nobody wants to

necessarily sort

of go to bed when

it gets dark and

wake up when it

gets light.

They want to sort

of play around

with the red

light and the

$10,000 coin

plunge or

whatever it is.

So how you get

around that one?

It is

TVT.

Well, I want to come back down to

leadership

authority, and we

look into

different social

constructs and

theories around

that as well,

which begs the

question of like,

how much

authority are we

as a collective

giving those who

have voices?

And what are

their intentions?

Like, obviously

we all need to

make money in

this lifetime.

There's nothing

wrong with making

money, but I

think it's really

easy for me at

least, and maybe

this is a vouch

of advice for

anybody that may

consider

reviewing what it

is that they're

hearing.

Any moment when

an influencer of

any split in the

biohacking or policing

especially comes

with a polarized