speaker-0 (00:00)

India are in town and as ever they've brought with them an abundance of world class talent.

Raj (00:07)

Yep. An enviable plethora of players with incredible skill, composure and self belief.

speaker-0 (00:14)

But why is it that India is able to churn out so many great players and also great teams?

Raj (00:22)

Us find the answer, we're joined today by a former Indian first-class player who's now bringing Indian coaching methods to English players.

speaker-0 (00:30)

I'm Nathan Wood.

Raj (00:31)

And I'm Briony Brock.

speaker-0 (00:33)

Welcome to the Cricket Mind Podcast.

speaker-0 (00:51)

Today we're joined by Raj Chaudhuri — founder of the First Class Cricket Academy in Sussex, which is one of our partners here at Cricket Mind. Raj is a former First Class cricketer in India and now coaches young cricketers here in England. And with India currently playing England in the T20 and the ODI series, we thought it was a great time to explore

Raj's journey, some of the differences he sees between coaching young players in India and England, and also what young cricketers can learn from watching some of India's best players. We'll also be talking about his academy's philosophy of confidence through competence and what that means in practice for young players. So Raj, it's brilliant to have...

You with us, welcome to the pod.

Raj (01:51)

Pleasure to be here. Thank you for inviting me.

speaker-0 (01:56)

So can you start off by telling us a bit about your journey from playing cricket in India to coaching young players here in England?

Raj (02:07)

Okay, so I started like most youngsters used to do in the seventies and eighties, playing street cricket. And my granddad was an absolute sports maniac. So there was not any sport which he wouldn't listen to or ⁓ you know, get involved in. And my dad wasn't a

sporting person, right? He loved cricket though, but he wasn't a sporting person. He was more into music and that sort of stuff. ⁓ none in my mum's side were that sporty as well. But I still remember

My dad and uncle were going to watch England versus India at the Eden Gardens, and then this was around nineteen seventy-two, seventy-three. And I think your dad might have been on that tour, I yeah. and I was crying to go to the ground with that, but tickets in those days were literally impossible to get, and that was a 65-

speaker-0 (03:09)

I think he was.

Raj (03:25)

70,000 packed Eden Gardens. Right. And obviously, dad and uncle didn't want to take me, right? So they went, and I was in granddad's room listening to All India Radio. And at that point, literally, I used to climb up a chair and try to peek inside the radio, thinking that I would be

speaker-0 (03:28)

Yeah.

speaker-2 (03:51)

able to see Eden Gardens

speaker-0 (03:54)

Hey ⁓

Raj (03:57)

And I was listening to the commentary. And whilst the Indian team was going out to bat, Sudir Naik was the opener or someone, and Sunil Gavaskar and the stadium literally erupted the moment the Gavaskar name was announced.

And I think that was it. Something happened to me. And yes, I started playing a bit on the streets and whatever. And I was like collecting everything I could get about Sunil Gavaskar — then slowly the pictures turned into watching him on television when television came and trying to copy him. Then

I was very lucky that I went to a school where we had three, four of us friends — we're absolutely cricket mad And only thing we discussed during the monsoon was cricket. And we obviously played cricket ⁓ in the winter in India. And that kept the you know fire on. And then ⁓

When I was year five, so I would be 10 years old. My dad took me to one of the local cricket camps. And cricket camps in India in those days, there are no age bar. So I was year five, and you had 18-year-olds as well. In there, there was a summer camp for a month at a club called White Border. And the coach was

Very, very strict. Extremely strict. I think first day at the camp we had about hundred and fifty. And I was — me and this friend of mine from school, we are the tiny ones. So initially all the fitness fielding stuff was done and they said, What do you do? I said, Bat So, okay, go pad up. So I stick my pads on, no helmet in those days. And

speaker-0 (05:52)

Wow.

Raj (06:14)

We went into the net, both of us, and there were seventeen, eighteen year olds bowling to us. And we batted. Both of us batted. And the whole of the camp, we didn't bat second after that. Both of us every day first bat in the camp.

speaker-0 (06:31)

Yep.

Raj (06:32)

But say that hundred and fifty the first day after the nets, it was straight away weeded down to I think about thirty five forty. They were just told don't come back, don't come back. So there it's all about ⁓ elimination. You want only people who they thought at that point were going to go further in the game.

speaker-0 (06:55)

Yep.

Because

Raj (07:05)

We didn't have any social cricket in India and social cricket in India doesn't literally happen as such. Then obviously we had a really interesting character at school. He was an English teacher and he used to run the cricket.

And so went to a boys' school, Catholic boys' school called Don Bosco which was one of the top eight schools in the state at that point. And ⁓ Mr. Bala, he was called, he was a cricket commentator for the All India Radio. And ⁓ he was running cricket. And we used to have these inter-class matches as trials.

And I batted 20 overs and I got 16 not out. 20 overs in literally a pool size ground on a matting wicket. And my friend who went to the camp with me, he batted 20 overs and got 21 not out. There were loads of runs, 60, 70, lots of runs there. The school team got

picked and this is the senior school team that got picked. Two of us were picked in that team.

So there was absolute mayhem in the school. Can you imagine 1,200 boys school? And you've picked a team which has got two years' sevens in that team, 16-member squad. So the principal actually called him in and said, What are you doing? And he said, ⁓ it was a Catholic school. So he said, Father, leave it to me. I know what I'm doing. Okay. He called us and he said,

You're going to be with the team. You're not going to play a game. You will practice every day with the team. And we had practice seven o'clock in the morning and again three o'clock in the afternoon, twice a day. ⁓ You will bat first, you will field, but you won't play a game. But you will be around that team. So that was our first year of initiation with the team. Second year, one of us used to open with a senior boy.

If I got out my friend went in or if he got out, I went in. But there was always a senior batting with us.

But believe me, we wouldn't score twenty. Year nine, we started getting a bit stronger. We started scoring a few.

From eleven and twelve, the two years final years in school, we played sixty three games, lost one.

Wow. And we won everything in that any tournament that was held, we won everything. But that was Mr. Bala's vision. He didn't go for the guy who was going to win him an under thirteen match or whatever.

speaker-0 (10:14)

Yep.

Yeah. So what do you think he saw in you?

Raj (10:27)

Basic technique temperament. No fear. Like playing adults, no fear. People were bowling on a matting wicket, brand new bowls for practice every day. We got in line, we got hit, we didn't flinch, we didn't run away. And all those little values of cricket were ingrained that if you want to play cricket, you will have to take the pain. You have to work hard.

speaker-0 (10:30)

Right.

Raj (10:57)

You have to be patient. Things won't come easy. You have to take the heat, the dust, and all that. People are going to say things to you. You gotta be thick skinned. All those little things I think were ingrained in there. And ⁓ then it was the first under 15 BCCI tournament that both of us went to ⁓ for trials.

350 kids. This is 1980, so you know how old I am now, right? And I'm a thirteen year old at that point. I've gone there. Three hundred and fifty kids, and they were literally one concrete net under the gallery and then one outdoor turf wicket.

There were four selectors and I think two or three coaches. They split us into fast bowlers, keepers, opening batsmen, spinner, and batsmen. Five categories. It started at nine o'clock. At one thirty, they gave a list of thirty two.

speaker-0 (12:18)

So 350 to 32.

Raj (12:20)

Thirty-two I remember I played four balls and let's be quite honest, we had gone for an under fifteen tournament, but there were boys who were nineteen there.

And it's like the Rashid Khan story. You had people who were well over, right? So I literally played four balls and the coach called me up. And everyone was getting balls like that. Out of that, I think I left two, played one on the front foot, one on the back foot. Done. Thirty-two boys trained every day for a month after that. We got a team of eighteen.

speaker-2 (12:41)

you

Raj (13:07)

From there. 14 players, four standbys. Out of the 18, 8 went on to play first class cricket, and two went on to play for India. Wow. How good was talent ID from there? And the best part is, you know, people might say, What happened to those 350? Right? They binned them straight away.

Those guys were still playing club cricket, ⁓ you know, ⁓ adult cricket. But I don't think anyone came back into the system. Anyone. The talent ID at that point was so good for that age group.

speaker-0 (13:54)

Well guess it's the investment as well, if they then trained every day, it could be that the talent ID wasn't the good thing, what was good was the training.

Raj (14:03)

the training was good. But you know, there was literally at that point Indian Board didn't have this kind of money. Right? But right from that time till the time we finished cricket, I have never paid a pie to play cricket, to get coached, to get equipment and all that. It never happened. So cricket, though it started as a very elite game, because the English

introduced the game to ⁓ India who played the kings and the royalty and the English people. But it is now an elite game played by the masses, not an elite game played by the elite. And that is mainly due to the BCCI's vision of not wasting money down the drain and putting money on people who

they think are going to go forward. That was all the way. Those guys who were in that 350 who didn't get the BCCI ⁓ you know, coaching or whatever, they would be welcome to practice at their clubs and ⁓ academies or wherever schools. They wouldn't be ⁓ shut down because in that part of the world you are not binned

Even at thirty, if you're doing well. Because there's no central contract or anything. No, you're playing match by match.

speaker-0 (15:34)

Yeah.

You said when you were 10, you went to the camp. Is that the first time you ever had any kind of structured cricket?

Raj (15:43)

Yeah. Yeah.

Cats?

that was the first time I played in a net, to be honest. That this is what I tell my fellow coaches: all the stuff we do at our academy, no one had done any of that with us. Yeah. We started getting coached when we became 14, 15, that sort of stuff. And that is on the finer tuning of the game. We didn't.

get coached how to play forward defence back foot defence.

speaker-0 (16:20)

You didn't even get sort of transitioned into hardball. You went from street cricket to hardball nets?

Raj (16:25)

Yeah, street cricket and like street cricket was very competitive. Like you're playing with eighteen, nineteen, twenty year olds. Our street we had a T junction just by my house. So four o'clock in the evening we were all there and no age. And I quickly learned that if you can't so at the T you could hit square leg, point or straight. Anything else was houses. Okay.

And I quickly figured out that if I can't bat here, because I was really tiny and I couldn't bowl. And if I can't bat for some time here, my whole evening is picking up balls from the drain and giving it back to the elder guys. So I learned to bat. Yeah. And I learned to bat watching Sunil Gavaskar. That's one thing. And all of us in that era, we wanted to walk like him, we wanted to talk like him, we wanted to bat like him. Nice. So it was

Like, I don't think there has been any cricketer in India since my time, Gavaskar and M.S. Dhoni, who has made so much of an impact. Mr. Gavaskar taught us how to play fast bowling — done, period. And M.S. Dhoni opened the game to the country as a whole. Because

speaker-0 (17:45)

Yeah.

Raj (17:54)

Previously, what used to happen was cricket was very city centered. Bombay, Calcutta, Delhi, Bangalore. And if you go to history of Indian cricket, Mumbai has won it the maximum. But because of MS Dhoni, the game went to the rural parts, the small cities, and where people could dream to be an India player.

speaker-0 (18:24)

Now.

Raj (18:24)

Like otherwise the first class system to play for a small side and play against a big side, I know how tough it is. Everything is loaded against you.

speaker-0 (18:38)

You mentioned Gavaskar and Dhoni being the most influential cricketers. You didn't mention Tendulkar there. I'm surprised at that.

Raj (18:48)

Great player, great player, obviously, but Gavaskar had done the work.

Gavaskar did the work when as a nation we weren't confident. Right? Gavaskar did the work when the economy hadn't opened up. Gavaskar did the work when there was no money. When Tendulkar came and did what he did, all his greatness, the multinationals were pouncing into India. The money was there. Indian board was

strong had started getting strong. But and Tendulkar wouldn't have happened without Gavaskar. But Gavaskar was completely

From a different planet, that person.

speaker-0 (19:45)

So was less about him as a cricketer and more of his notoriety and his impact that people sort of wanted to emulate.

Raj (19:53)

He was a character. Like my wife tells me now that you don't go for cricket, you go for characters. And I didn't realize it. And to be honest, it is true because all my favorite players were Gavaskar, Viv Richards, Imran Khan. It was all characters who stood up for the players. Ian Chappel who stood up for the players, who fought for players.

speaker-2 (20:22)

You

know

Raj (20:22)

Those

type of players always attracted me.

speaker-0 (20:25)

So just going back to your point about how young players were eliminated. You talked about going from 150 to 35 and 350 to 32 and they were kind of culled really. Is that the same now in the Indian system or have they moved away?

Raj (20:47)

⁓ there are a lot of academies, there are a lot of numbers, but the quality is not there and it is not possible for the quality to be there. And I was listening to a podcast by Virenda Sehwag the other day and he goes to ⁓ trial for an academy as a thirteen, fourteen year old and he said there were a hundred and fifty odd kids and he went there first day from seven o'clock till eleven o'clock, didn't get a bat, didn't get a ball, went home.

Second day, same thing. Third day, batted for five minutes and was called out. So he went to the coach and said, Sir, I've come here for two days. I haven't had a bat or a bowl. And ⁓ today I got five minutes or whatever. I can bat. The coach turned round to him and he said, I know you can bat and you will be back here. Just turn around and see how many kids are back. So he said, about sixty odd.

He said, in this heat, I was testing who actually wants to play cricket or whose parents have dropped him to play cricket. I don't need those. I need guys who really want to play cricket. So the same philosophy, same thought process is very much prevalent.

speaker-0 (21:52)

Yeah.

Yeah, that's interesting Raj. ⁓ over the years we've had a few, you've done the Level 4 course, the ECB Level 4 coaching course, and over the years we've got different people come in to give different aspects of selection and leadership, et cetera. And I remember bringing some military people in and they talked about their selection process and it is quite similar to what you were talking about actually. And they would start with a huge group of want to be

SAS people or soldiers, and they would create the conditions to see who fell away, and One of the lines that they used to say was actually, with time, we let them reveal their character so they'd have tough conditions and then that would whittle them down naturally. So it's a very similar kind of parallel to how the military select their guys.

Raj (23:00)

got a shock when I first came to England to play club cricket. And what happened was quite a few seniors were playing club cricket in England, in the Yorkshire Leagues and that sort of thing. I wanted to growing up. That's what I had read about. I wanted to play and ⁓ there was a friend of mine who was playing for a club in London and ⁓ I spoke to his coach and ⁓ he said

⁓ you won't get paid or anything because you haven't played first class cricket, but you can go and get a summer playing And he was playing in the first team. And I came over, I didn't know anything about England, right? I got a ticket because quite a few people helped me with collecting sponsorship to buy a ticket. I got that.

My mum rang up an old ⁓ family friend who used to live in Sidcup in Kent and said, Is it possible for my son to live in your house for about three months? He wants to go and play cricket. And she was a gem and she said, I've got a very small spare room, but he's most welcome to have that. And I came in and lived there and

I was staying in Sidcup and I was going to Middlesex near Brondesbury to play cricket because I thought the whole world operated like back home. And I could have easily played at Sidcup Cricket Club. But I didn't understand. They didn't work like that. And then we played a Saturday league game and Sunday at that point ⁓ I got managed to get a few friends together. We were all camping at someone's house and there was a

really good Bollywood movie that had been released and you had video cassettes and someone had managed to get a video cassette and we thought right we'll all have a few beers and watch that movie but I had to go and play that game. So I went to play that game and the we had a really good ⁓ opening bowler on a wicket which was going and the opposition was seventeen for five. And I'm thinking standing in the slips I'm thinking right this is going to be a sixty five seventy will be done quickly.

And go home and still watch that movie and ⁓ spend time with the friends. And suddenly they bring out the pie chucker who keeps feeding runs. And I wasn't getting it. So I went to the captain. I said, What are you doing? He's still got overs in his tank. Bowl him, it will be done. He said, No, no, you don't understand this. I said, What is it? Why are you giving him runs? Like, I had no idea. So, end of the game, he took.

Me aside, and he said, it is not about winning. It is a Sunday game. We gotta make sure that the game goes on till 7 o'clock. So people will be back. There's bar takings, there is a lot of other stuff you have to take into account. We had no idea of all that because the only cricket we had played all our life is play to win. So it was completely different shock to me.

Why am I

speaker-2 (26:24)

this.

speaker-0 (26:25)

Big culture shock. So when did you start coaching Raj? Was that in England or did you coach back in India?

Raj (26:32)

So what happened was at that point the guy who was my coach mentor in India, he was a very successful coach and ⁓ I was raising money to come to England. So one day I was giving him a lift on my bike and he asked me, So how's England preparation going? So I said, Yeah, I'm still a bit short on the cash. So this was on a

Saturday evening. And he said, What are you doing tomorrow morning? I said, Nothing. I'll come and practice from 9 30 ish So he said, camp is on in the morning. Come and coach. I've never coached. He said, Come, I'll be there. Coach. And you got about eight, ten weeks, you'll make some money, it will supplement your ⁓ airfare. I said, Okay. So that's how it started, literally.

speaker-0 (27:14)

Okay.

Raj (27:30)

Then I came here and I was playing as a pro in Wales for Blackwood Cricket Club and they had a massive junior section. So when I got the deal, the deal was I had to coach, but I had no formal qualifications to coach. So I came and I got in touch in

Lancashire, ⁓ they were doing ⁓ level one coach back in nineteen ninety-three, I think, and at ⁓ one of these schools I forget the name of the school, but it was meant for overseas coaches. And you had Malcolm Marshall, Gus Logie, Robert Haynes, who is a HD Ackerman, R.P. Singh.

speaker-2 (28:11)

schools.

Raj (28:27)

All these guys were on that course, Eldine Baptiste Everyone was on that course. And I was absolutely blown away by how two gentlemen, a gentleman called Jim Kenyon,

And ⁓ there was another gentleman, both were not massive cricketers, they were basically Milnrow Central Lancs ⁓ second team cricketers. How they handled the course, because one of the biggest things on that course, we were all talking during lunches, what are these guys gonna teach Malcolm Marshall about Bowling? Mm-hmm. Right? And the way he handled it, I was like, mate, you're a different league.

So he got us all together after the second day lunch and said today is bowling day and whatever. And he said, I'd be the biggest fool on the planet if I wanted to go and teach Malcolm or Eldine or any one of you how to bowl. But I've got a task for Malcolm. So Malcolm Marshall was there and he gave him a bowl and he said, Mark this run up as a left arm over.

And come and bowl. So he looked at him. He marked his run up as a left arm over, couldn't get into a load position. The great Malcolm Marshall. And he said, this is where we have to start.

speaker-0 (30:00)

Yep.

Raj (30:02)

It was fantastic. I had a lot of time for that. Level one was a one week course. And every evening we had to write and come home and do homework and it was cricket, cricket, cricket. It's not like now. You know the fire exits, two drills, touch some cones, and you're a level one coach. You don't have that. It was proper cricket coaching.

speaker-0 (30:26)

When you'd gone to that, just to take you back for a little bit, that first camp when your coaches had come and helped with the camps, what did the coaching look like at those camps in India? Was it sort of drills, nets, games?

Raj (30:37)

There wouldn't be drills. drills came a lot later. Drills came, I think, more with social media. We used to do a lot of throwdowns growing up. We used to do throwdowns and it was batting in nets. Now, the problem you have is nets are of no point if.

The basic threshold level is not there. The person can't come and bowl in a net or the guy can't bat actually. That's when you need more drills to get it into a default setting that this is my response to this question. So, in ⁓ India it was more throwdowns and nets. And

speaker-0 (31:20)

Did the coaches do all the throw downs or did the children do throw downs to each other? Because you said there were a lot of children.

Raj (31:26)

it was I'm talking ten, eleven year olds, that's all they were I had to do throwdowns as a new coach, right? But the moment a boy was getting to thirteen, fourteen, he would have to do throwdowns because that is something you needed to learn because otherwise your practice quality was never going to get better. Because if I go and do throwdowns with someone and I can't throw, why should he throw to me? So you learned it that you have to do it.

speaker-2 (31:26)

But

Raj (31:56)

And the Indian system is very sink or swim. If you can't do it, you're done. You will be told this is the requirement. It's almost like applying for a visa. You know these are the papers I have to give. Okay? If you don't give them, you don't get your visa. So again, similar, these are the things you have to do. Like if you go and bat in the net as a 15-year-old.

And you get out in a twenty minute net, six bowlers bowling, more than twice, that evening was literally gone when you went home. Because you're thinking, How did I get out twice? Because they had told us that if you can bat for three days against this bowling, twenty minutes, twenty minutes, twenty minutes, six bowlers, you scored a fifty. If you s bat for six days without getting out, you got a hundred.

That was basic yardstick set. Like nowadays I hear so much about talent ID, talent ID, basic level. It's so, so simple. This is a game of double and triple promotion. No point in saying, ⁓ Charlie has gone and done really well in the under 13 competition. It is pointless. That doesn't say Charlie is good. It just says Charlie is not very bad.

But Charlie going at 13 and scoring runs in under 16, yes, I'm interested. How did he go? Where did he score? All that then comes into effect. I think one of the biggest ⁓ hindrances where I think subcontinent guys are very lucky, is the surface we play on.

All the coaching people do, what is it? For playing better bowling. Isn't it? You don't need coaching to hit a half tracker over mid-wicket. You don't need coaching. That should be normal, natural. So I say to my kids, I said, a full toss, if you can't hit a half tracker, it can't hit. That me, that's almost like you can't go to the toilet, you can't pee, poo, throw up.

Then you need to go to the A&E or the hospital. Right? That's natural if you can't do that. I'll teach you how you survive against the better bowling, how you score against the better bowling. To score against better bowling, you need the ball to come. You need a ball, a bit of pace. Otherwise, how are you going to hit in front of the wicket? You can't. And that is where maximum kids ⁓ in England suffer.

Because if you have a ring field and little Johnny who actually can bat, he can't pierce the field till he gets to 15-16. So who gets accolades? The Jack the Lad comes in, mows it over mid-wicket three, four times. What a shot, what a shot, what a shot. Right. So what has happened? He has thought I can play. Johnny has thought I can't play. So it's completely the opposite.

Johnny needs to be encouraged, or some rules need to be made that you can't ring up like a reverse ring we have in one day cricket. You have to have only three outside the ring. Here you have to have five outside the ring. Then the better player will be encouraged to score runs. Back home, what happens? The wickets are good, the outfields are terrible. So you touch a ball, that ball flies.

That's why you're getting a thirteen year old going and scoring two hundred. It's impossible otherwise. My cricket ground at school is a superb ground. If I get a thirteen year old, you can't cross the thirty yard circle. And it's not any fault of his, it will come.

speaker-2 (36:07)

No.

speaker-0 (36:10)

Well I think also in England we'd retire them on 30 or 50 so somebody else could get a go.

Raj (36:15)

Nightmare!

speaker-2 (36:15)

⁓ How

How's he going to learn? ⁓

speaker-0 (36:20)

can't think of an environment under the age of even at 15 in a county where inclusivity and enjoyment and fun aren't key cornerstones of what they're trying to achieve.

Raj (36:35)

But I think the whole thing in England, and people might take me wrong here, all the ideas are fantastic, but the implementation is wrong. It's almost like the benefit system, right? The idea is fantastic to help people who are out of jobs, who have got physical illness or whatever. But the implementation is such that people can take advantage of this. Now, inclusivity.

Is great when a good player is not binned because of his colour, creed, religion, whatever. It is it doesn't mean that you have to tolerate the lowest common denominator. No, it's not. So that's where it goes wrong. In classes you have sets. Why can't you have sets? Because everything is against the guy who can play. Everything is for the guy who cannot play.

Why? Why am I interested in who goes and 26 playing fourth team and third team cricket and making sure Sainsbury's makes a profit or there is a lot of kits sold? That's not my job. My job is to make sure that the best player goes forward, plays Premier League cricket or higher. That's my job. Whether that person again, this system of first, second, third, it's fantastic if it's applied to India.

Because what's gonna happen? The guys who are gonna be actual players are going to come back to the second, third, fourth after they finish and help youngsters to go. At the moment, what it is it is the drinking club. If you don't fit into my drinking club, though you are a good young player, I won't pick you. It happens a lot. Why? People think I am against social cricket. I give people

⁓ contact details of ⁓ you know sides like the Sussex Martlets and 40 Club I said go and play go and play but what you got to understand is the thinking of the pro-cricketer and the thinking of the guy who's playing to get thirsty at six o'clock is completely different. The six o'clock guy is playing for the thrill of the last over.

Pro wants to kill the game as soon as possible because he doesn't want it to go to the last over. That's a complete different mindset.

speaker-0 (39:10)

So when it comes to developing young cricketers, Raj, what do you think India and England could learn from each other? There must be some things that England do well that India could learn from. How would you kind of describe that?

Raj (39:34)

The Structure

here, say the facilities, right? You go to a cricket club, the basic facilities, toilets, nets, the organization. And the structure of first, second, third, how it was meant to be, is fantastic. It if that goes to India, it's superb. Right. At the same time, what you don't want is all this retiring at 26.

Right. No volume work done, No hard work as such, the boring work done, right? It's not all fun and enjoyment. Because I tell my parents, I say, if you see this guy, I am fifty nine, I'm still looking for him. I haven't found him, who has great fun when his poles are knocked out first birth.

Or when he bowls and it is disappearing into the next ground and people are calling his name and saying, come on, come on, so and so. Or he's dropped the absolute dolly and the ⁓ batsman has gone a hundred got a hundred and his team has won. I said, I haven't found that situation how you can have fun. Right, that person. So all this is basically getting to a certain threshold level.

You get to that threshold level, you do the volume, and it's not that difficult a job.

speaker-0 (41:04)

So

your academy Raj — the First Class Cricket Academy — they use the phrase confidence through competence. Are you talking about volume there or is there something else that that relates to?

Raj (41:17)

No, I'm talking volume. so basically, if you get to a certain standard, then it's volume. And okay, I'll give you an example. So if I wake you up at three o'clock in the morning and say, What's your name? You're gonna say Nathan. Ten o'clock at night, you're saying Nathan. ⁓ twelve o'clock in the afternoon, Nathan, right? ⁓ so the answer to the same question is always the same.

That can't change. So I need to get to a stage that a half volley is a punch. A length ball is a defend, or unless I can drop and go or work it out. A backfoot ball is a back foot ball. So the question and the answer has to match. And I have to get the kid to that standard. Now, one is volume, then comes playing on different surfaces, then comes playing against bowlers with different actions.

And obviously different wickets, environment, that sort of stuff, which gets the development going. But if I don't have the basic pot to work with, how is that going to happen? So volume is a massive thing that needs to be done. And that is the boring stuff that

doing it over and over again, over and over again. And that is what people don't want to do. So I would bring volume the Indian volume here. Mm-hmm. And I'll take the English organization to India.

speaker-0 (42:57)

Got you. So India are playing England at the moment in T20 and ODI format. What can young cricketers here in England learn from watching the best players that India have got? What do you say? And what should they be looking out for?

Raj (43:17)

I'm not sure about this T20 side at the moment, the selection of this T20 side. ⁓ I think England will win this series. Right? But I think India will win the one dayers just because of the selection of the players. And if you say what can you learn, it's

What you see when a Rohit Sharma goes to bat or a KL Rahul goes into bat is the fundamentals are so, so strong. And style is completely your. If three of us bat, everyone will have their own style, own preferences because our bodies move differently. But the fundamentals have to be there. If I don't have fundamentals, I literally can't play. So if I have to teach someone how to drive a car.

I can't go and take the guy straight away on the motorway and say, find a way. Yes, he will find a way to heaven. But that's what it has become. Like again, when we were doing the level one, level two in those days, it was cricket, cricket, cricket. Now my mum can become a level three coach. And there are certain things you hear, you literally cringe.

speaker-0 (44:43)

You mentioned about fundamentals, Raj. What about the young Sooryavanshi What do you see when you watch him play?

Raj (44:54)

Very strong fundamentals. I know about him because a friend of mine used to coach him. Yeah. Okay, he sadly passed away. He there's a video going out on social media. I think ⁓ they showed it on Sky also, him as a nine-year-old. So he's literally hitting drives ⁓ of balls on cones And he used to bat for four hours a day.

The place he comes from, he used to take a train for three hours or something. His mum used to make food for four people, him and three bowlers. And he used to go and bat. So the volume is done, the fundamentals is done. Now he has found again a style which really suits him. So if you see where he picks his bat up and then how quickly he brings it back on track, if someone tries to copy that, he's done.

It's a complete natural thing for him.

Right. You can't pocket the next player. you got to bat like Sooryavanshi Right, because he is different. So style will always be different. Sehwag didn't bat like Dravid, Dravid didn't bat like Tendulkar or Laxman Everyone was different. So as coaches, I think we need to know that okay, I got in number six. Which role will this guy fit?

And then he plays according to himself, what he wants to play. I can't go and make Pujara say you have to bat with a strike rate of 160. It's not gonna work. But I think there's a lot of that in England that you have to bat only a certain way. And that would have been emphasized more and more over the last four years of the Bazball era.

Which has been like I went to my cricket club the other day. I had and literally my idea of heaven is me playing my own bowling. I'm that bad. Okay. Literally bowl filthy off spin. I bowl to these guys with the first pair for 20 minutes. I had six wickets. I got hit for three sixes. I had six wickets. But people don't have any idea. So I said to him.

I said I'll give you that for a six, I'll give you that. After that, the three you've hit have all hit the top of the net. So that's going nowhere.

speaker-0 (47:34)

Yeah.

Raj (47:35)

Well, but

now people can hit, but people majority can't bat. If you go and see the Sussex Premier League, all the guys who bat properly are twenty-eight, twenty-seven, that sort of age. You see the youngsters, they can all hit and clear the ground, but four dot balls, here we go.

speaker-0 (48:00)

Yeah. I think a lot of it is, what they see, isn't it? So you're talking about your hero, Gavaskar and you would have watched him play and you would have been influenced by that. People on the telly now, a lot of, a lot of the televised games are IPL matches and short format and the heroes out of that. so they, try to replicate and emulate those kind of players. Yeah. Fascinating. Raj, we're coming up to time.

Raj (48:25)

Yeah.

speaker-0 (48:30)

So a of a quick fire round. Five questions. So just kind of answer these off the top of your head. So the first question would be, what's the best piece of cricket advice that you've ever received?

Raj (48:45)

⁓ this was from a former Bengal captain when I was just starting and I played one day against guys who were all playing first class cricket. And I got beaten so many times. It was like unbelievable. And there were there was a guy bowling to me who in three months time was playing for India and I was fourteen years old. And I got beaten left right. I didn't know which one was coming in, which one was going away.

And he was sharing a room with me, that person. And he came back and I was ⁓ on my room. He knew I was not very happy. So he asked me, why what's wrong with you? I said, I batted so badly. He said, No, you batted really well. I saw you bat. So how like, how was that good? He said, You batted 20 minutes against people who are all first class players, and you didn't get out. I said, My head was wrapped around.

speaker-2 (49:43)

I bet.

Raj (49:44)

About seven times He said, Yeah, but did you get out? I said, No. He said, So all those guys couldn't get a 14-year-old out. I said, okay. And he said, the best advice I'm telling you now is when the ball does too much, as long as you play it as a straight ball and play tight, you're going to get beaten on the outside. And the one that comes in, you will either play straight or go to square leg, fine leg.

speaker-0 (49:54)

Yep.

Raj (50:13)

Even if it spins, it's the same principle. Play it as a straight ball. Don't try to imagine how much it's going to swing or turn. And you get beaten on the outside. And he said, The moment a fast bowler beats you, smile at him. So I said, Why? He goes, That's going to irritate him. The ball that is going to endanger you is the one that is pitched up. The moment he gets angry with you and goes short, you are safe.

Brilliant. So that was very good advice

speaker-0 (50:46)

What's one batting skill that every young player should practice?

Raj (50:53)

You play the ball, that is going to be eighty percent of what you receive, which is the front foot block or punch, because every bowler in the world is coming in to hit top of offstamp. So if I can't play that ball, I can't play eighty to eighty five percent of the time

speaker-0 (51:12)

Yep. Yep. Understood. And what about one bowling skill that every player should practice?

Raj (51:19)

You should be able to hit your length whenever you go. Get up, go to the net. You should be able to hit your length. How much you need to adjust your length according to the surface is up to you after a few balls but you should be able to hit your length. If you can't hit your length, it's getting nowhere.

speaker-0 (51:42)

you

Raj (51:46)

Can I add something? ⁓ yeah. What I'd like to swap. What I'd like to swap is people who have never played cricket making decisions on future cricketers, especially in the pathways. Like if you see the Indian pathway, you're not going to be coaching in it if you're not a first class player.

You got no chance. You can be coaching lower down, academy, club, but it is almost like you've never felt a ball past your face at eighty five mile an hour. How are you gonna tell the person who's the next opening bat what it feels like the next ball?

speaker-0 (52:35)

So you think you need to have that empathy and that understanding to be able to pass that on

Raj (52:41)

So if you see a doctor, a doctor doesn't get qualified by a banker. A pilot doesn't get qualified by an accountant. He gets qualified by a pilot. So if a cricketer is going to be qualified, he needs a cricketer who's going to help him.

speaker-0 (53:02)

Yep.

Raj (53:03)

That is massive because the messages that come out of pathways and some pathways have got very good ⁓ coaches, ex players, whatever, but some — it is really sad to see that there's so much money wasted on projects that mean nothing.

Whereas you can easily get some decent coaches to come and work who will work with better players if they're paid ⁓ you know, well enough.

speaker-0 (53:44)

Final question, and I'm going to amend this because I think that the original question was going to be name one Indian player past or present that young cricketers should study. But I think you might say Gavaskar So name one Indian player, present Indian player, that young cricketers should study now.

Raj (54:09)

⁓

Anyone between Kholi, Rohit and KL Rahul Anyone.

speaker-0 (54:20)

You gotta choose one though. You gotta choose one.

Raj (54:21)

Sorry. They

They can choose who who they like, but it is all three of them, the adaptability they have to switch gears and back bat according to situations is they are not one trick ponies that I can only bat this way, this is how I play, right? But they can change, they can bring their contact point tighter, they can go ahead.

They can do that. So or any of those three I would say.

speaker-0 (54:54)

Brilliant. Raj, thank you so much for joining us. It's been fascinating to hear about your journey and the work that you're doing at the First Class Cricket Academy and also your perspective on helping young players develop. So if there's anybody out there who'd like to find out more about Raj and his academy, we'll include those details in the show notes. And if you're a coach, actually, if you're listening to this and you're

kind of fancy partnering up with Cricket Mind, then you can find out more by visiting our website at cricketmind.online. So Raj, thank you once again for joining us. Pleasure. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you to everyone listening and joining this podcast. Please do subscribe, leave a review and share this episode with anyone who you think may find it useful. Briony

Raj (55:36)

Thank you so much.

speaker-0 (55:53)

Shall we call that stumps? Yeah, we should. Let's see you next time.