Evan: Hello and welcome to Left of the Projector. I'm your host, Evan,

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Evan: of our weekly episodes that drop every Tuesday. And now on to the show.

Evan: Ho, ho, ho, and Merry Christmas from us here at Left to the Projector.

Evan: This week on the show, we enter the holiday season with one of the greatest

Evan: horror slasher films ever made, at least in this host's opinion.

Evan: And that film is Black Christmas, released in 1974.

Evan: It became a cult classic. It was directed by Bob Clark, who you may know from

Evan: his later films, such as Porky's.

Evan: The film was written to be loosely based on an urban legend of the babysitter

Evan: in the house with the man upstairs. The film was funded by the Canadian government

Evan: for a budget of just $680,000.

Evan: And this week, I'm joined by Bill and Ward alongside Joy. How are you both doing?

Evan: Or how are you all doing today?

Bill and Joy: Super excited. Super stoked. Doing good.

Bill: Doing well.

Evan: The thing that I've been thinking about or I'm curious about,

Evan: because I know in the past we've talked about maybe other slasher films,

Evan: and I know that, Bill, you're not typically the biggest fan.

Evan: I'm wondering, had you seen this before? And did you... What did you think?

Bill: So i've never seen it before uh which is why when it

Bill: said like fund film funded

Bill: by i was like oh this isn't american i was like wait that's canadian

Bill: what the fuck i was

Bill: like who's paying for movies like listen this

Bill: isn't gonna like it's not gonna go up there with like my favorite movie

Bill: of all time but in terms of like a slasher i actually

Bill: didn't dislike it because i never

Bill: once felt like the characters my

Bill: biggest issue with slasher is the characters are fucking idiots and the

Bill: entire plot of slasher films requires the characters to be fucking morons um

Bill: and by the characters i mean the victims and this film doesn't do that at all

Bill: the dumb people are everyone else which makes the victims victims they are victims of the system and,

Bill: leads to them being killed and the characters themselves are not idiots unlike

Bill: every other slasher film i've ever fucking watched.

Bill and Joy: Such a good point like that was like one of the first things

Bill and Joy: i noticed watching this i hadn't seen it before

Bill and Joy: either i had seen like the remakes because i didn't know

Bill and Joy: that there were remakes because a friend told me like oh you just check

Bill and Joy: out black christmas and i watched obviously the wrong ones before and

Bill and Joy: so but this one yeah no i really like that it's like yeah no you don't have

Bill and Joy: all the victims being just dumb motherfuckers running around not knowing what

Bill and Joy: the fuck to do it's just like no they're aware it's just everyone else is fucking

Bill and Joy: yeah because they're fucking they're the fucking idiots instead i do love a slasher i,

Bill and Joy: loved this slasher i'm so glad i finally watched it i

Bill and Joy: was actually telling uh warden bill like i wish i would have watched this one

Bill and Joy: first to truly enjoy the 2019 remake um for reasons we'll get into but fun fact

Bill and Joy: apparently the i forget the director for halloween but he was inspired by black christmas so.

Evan: It's funny you say that because one of the things i was going to mention is that.

Bill and Joy: No it's.

Evan: Exactly that is that well it's john carpenter number one is the halloween director but.

Bill: Apparently i can't believe joy was just like i forget who the this fucking director

Bill: of halloween and i could just imagine evan over there like,

Bill: Like, I could just imagine his face just dropping. I know, in my defense.

Bill and Joy: You don't understand. It took me so, it takes me so long to remember names.

Bill and Joy: I'm horrible with names.

Evan: That's okay. I butcher people's names. I also forget actors' names a lot.

Evan: But it's interesting you mention that because in the, like, the lore of that,

Evan: inspiration of that is that Bob Clark had a meeting with John Carpenter,

Evan: like, a friendly meeting, where John Carpenter's like, hey, like,

Evan: if you ever made a sequel to Black Christmas, like, what would you do?

Evan: And Bob Clark's like, I would never make a sequel to this movie.

Evan: But if I did, it would be where the man was caught years later,

Evan: and then he escapes from prison and goes on a killing rampage against the women

Evan: who had been part of the original.

Evan: And then he said, I would call it Halloween. And then John Carpenter's like,

Evan: oh, interesting. And then five years later, he releases Halloween.

Bill: I think I'll do that.

Evan: He's not mad about it.

Bill and Joy: I think I'll take some notes.

Bill and Joy: I assume that he wouldn't be. I mean, in that, that's just a conversation.

Bill and Joy: I'm sure that if John Carpenter would have had something to say about it,

Bill and Joy: he would have been like, or not John Carpenter, but the original director would

Bill and Joy: have had something to say about it.

Bill and Joy: Like he'd have been like, oh, yeah, dude, no, you could definitely like as far

Bill and Joy: as like creating the actual like idea for them.

Evan: He's just mad he didn't get credit for the title. He's like,

Evan: he changed the story, but he used my title.

Evan: I'm like, he's like joking, like, you shouldn't use my title or whatever.

Evan: I don't know exactly the words he used. But, you know, this movie,

Evan: I mean, that's the thing about this, too, as like, this is I'm going to say

Evan: something that Bill is going to be surprised about.

Evan: This is actually my favorite slasher movie more than Halloween.

Evan: I think it's actually a better movie than Halloween.

Bill: I am surprised by that.

Evan: For people out there. I've never seen Halloween.

Bill: So I can't weigh in on that.

Evan: And i and i think it's because this movie

Evan: does all the things that halloween and

Evan: like future slashers do both right and

Evan: wrong where like women and the people in the movie are all

Evan: like doofuses and idiots and mess around whereas

Evan: this is like the complete opposite as you both already as you've all already

Evan: said and then also it like reverses the trope where the common trope in slashers

Evan: is like the the virgin is the final girl because she's pure whereas in this

Evan: it's the opposite The very first person who's killed is like the pure virgin.

Evan: And so I think that this movie is so interesting because it doesn't adhere to

Evan: the common tropes that people think of with slasher movies.

Bill: It didn't feel like a slasher film to me at all.

Bill and Joy: No, it doesn't feel like it. It felt like a murder mystery.

Bill: Yes, exactly.

Bill and Joy: Murder mystery, thriller kind of thing. Like that's more along the line.

Bill and Joy: It was a horror thriller. I mean, the dude's in the fucking house the whole fucking time. Fair.

Bill: That's cinematography. That's cinematography of him going in.

Bill and Joy: And the cinematography.

Bill: Brilliant.

Bill and Joy: Oh, yeah. It's like maybe you didn't feel a suspense, but I'm fucking the whole time.

Bill and Joy: I'm like, he's still a fucking thriller. It leaves you in suspense.

Bill and Joy: I will give you that. I will give you that.

Evan: That's what all of the actors who have done interviews about this movie have

Evan: said is that they think that these movies like this are better because all of

Evan: the horror is actually in your waiting for something to happen and not about gore.

Evan: Like, there's only one scene, I think, in the entire movie where there's even a speck of blood.

Bill: Yeah, there's no gore.

Evan: No.

Bill and Joy: I think the goriest thing in the movie is probably when the cop got his throat slit.

Evan: Yeah, but you don't see it.

Bill: You don't see it.

Bill and Joy: Well, you don't see it happen, but you see his body in the cop car.

Bill and Joy: Yeah, that's true. But I did appreciate, and I'm glad you mentioned that,

Bill and Joy: because I did appreciate whenever the character Barb dies and he uses one of

Bill and Joy: her little knickknacks.

Bill and Joy: There's not blood going, it's not over the top nasty, you know?

Bill: It's so 70s. The crystal tchotchkes and those little swans filled with sand, it's so 70s.

Evan: Well, and like, I mean, we've already sort of talked about like the general

Evan: plot of this movie is takes place around Christmas.

Evan: Obviously, the black Christmas might have given that part away.

Evan: It's, like, at a sorority house at a college in Canada, obviously,

Evan: as we mentioned, is Canada.

Evan: And the house, like, all the women who live there are being sort of terrorized

Evan: by a person who they call, like, the moaner who calls and has,

Evan: like, just says dirty things to them on the phone.

Evan: And maybe in the very opening scenes, you see someone entering the house.

Evan: And, like, one of the most terrifying, I think, like, point of view shots for,

Evan: like, a horror movie, he's, like, breathing.

Evan: You see just his hands very briefly. And, like, that's it.

Evan: Like, you never see his full face. You are just sort of there and that and one

Evan: by one people in the house are either killed or disappear or you know you don't

Evan: know what happens then for a little while and it yeah I don't know.

Bill and Joy: Is that like a whole like demographic of like creepiness that like has gone

Bill and Joy: away now since like almost everybody has like the silence unknown callers thing on their phones?

Bill and Joy: Is like just calling and like moaning or breathing into like the phone?

Bill: Oh my God, so true. Yeah, that's like, that's a cultural context.

Bill and Joy: Has that gone away?

Bill: Yeah, that's got, I would assume, like, I mean, other than like workplaces,

Bill: but like on personal lines, like, yeah.

Bill: Yeah, personal lines, yeah. That's got to be like a cultural context that like

Bill: if young people who, you know, didn't grow up at landlines at all,

Bill: like they must have like no context for that. Like we all at least grew up with landlines.

Evan: Yeah.

Bill and Joy: Yeah.

Evan: That's true.

Bill and Joy: Shout out to the guys that had to figure out a new way to be creepy.

Bill: And just the whole, and the whole concept of that, the whole concept of he's

Bill: calling from inside the house.

Bill: It's like, that's no one that would like, that has a whole different context

Bill: in the case of like, you know, cell phones. Because it's like,

Bill: well, he could be calling from anywhere. He's on a cell phone.

Bill: You know, it's like this, it's a whole different thing.

Evan: That's the origin of that line. Like, he's calling from inside the house is this movie.

Bill and Joy: Such a good line, too. I didn't know that. That's really cool.

Evan: Which I think has been, like, parodied and probably used in other,

Evan: like, commercials. And I don't know what else they've used it.

Bill and Joy: People, I heard somebody use it in, like, just a normal conversation the other day.

Evan: Yeah, it is kind of like a meme almost, right? Like, saying,

Evan: oh, the call is from coming inside the house.

Bill and Joy: Yeah.

Evan: Yeah so i always i think i often joke

Evan: in like other horror movies that we've done or that

Evan: i've done in the past is you know like does the movie pass the

Evan: bechdel test and for anyone who doesn't know that's when two women

Evan: talk to each other not about a man for more

Evan: than i think was it two minutes or i i don't remember the exact

Evan: time but in this movie you do it's mostly

Evan: women there are obviously men and there's a cop multiple cops a couple boyfriends

Evan: a father but like generally speaking there's like actual conversation that happens

Evan: amongst women where it isn't necessarily like about a man and i it like it almost

Evan: is kind of only the canadian government would fund a movie like this in 1974,

Evan: it

Bill: Truly is wow this is a government funded movie.

Evan: Well but so it's the canadian film development

Evan: corporation so it is technically a corporation but it

Evan: was still a canadian crown corporation which i guess means that it's technically

Evan: owned by the government you can look it up like they funded a lot of movies

Evan: and they actually considered this movie to be what they were trying to do apparently

Evan: was make movies that were sort

Evan: of based on american movies and like making the Canadian version of it.

Evan: It's like this was sort of like the Canadian version of, I guess there really

Evan: wasn't any American movies yet that sort of hit this.

Evan: Like the slashers at the time was more Italian or like you go back to like Psycho,

Evan: which was, you know, Hitchcock 20 years before, not even 20 years.

Evan: What year did Psycho come out? Like 1967?

Evan: Whoever the, to our...

Evan: listeners we're gonna 1960 oh 1960 okay so

Evan: i'm like way off by seven years so 15 years before

Evan: this like that's i would consider kind of like a slasher psychological thriller

Evan: i don't know like what do you think about the characters in it

Evan: as like women you know they they all seem to have sort of like different you

Evan: know uh personalities they're not all just sort of like goofy teens who want

Evan: to get drunk you know they have barb who's sort of like the crass one who's

Evan: drunk and then you sort of have the ones that are sort of see.

Bill and Joy: That's why i wish i would have watched i'm.

Evan: Sorry that's.

Bill and Joy: Why i would have watched this one before the next one because it puts

Bill and Joy: the remake in so much better context to understand

Bill and Joy: why they did the remake in the first place because while i'm sure that they

Bill and Joy: weren't trying to make it inherently like political it's the 70s everything's

Bill and Joy: a little bit political at the time but like i don't think that was the goal

Bill and Joy: of the movie but it happened that way anyway especially as the movie aged because

Bill and Joy: i mean you brought up barb is actually one of my favorite characters.

Bill and Joy: And I think it's really interesting how everybody kind of shits on her a little

Bill and Joy: bit. But at the same time, I mean, she's a young woman in college,

Bill and Joy: right? She's outspoken.

Bill and Joy: If she had been a guy at the Fred house, she probably would have been the most

Bill and Joy: popular person there, right?

Bill and Joy: And another person who I thought was really interesting was actually Mrs.

Bill and Joy: Mack, right? She plays a really, I find Mrs.

Bill and Joy: Mack to be a pretty key character in that, like, she, you even get a little bit of her background,

Bill and Joy: like, talking about how she was in vaudeville and you see like the whole like

Bill and Joy: poster with her and her sister and she has a drinking problem she's so interesting

Bill and Joy: to me and like you want to kind of know how did you become like a house mother

Bill and Joy: and then it's like it makes sense that she works so well with the girls because,

Bill and Joy: she's almost jealous of them right i think that it really focuses the movie

Bill and Joy: focuses on key parts that women were experiencing at the time you had shit at

Bill and Joy: i'm sorry i'm sorry if i'm gonna i'm just gonna i'm just gonna do it shit ass

Bill and Joy: uh patrick right saying you're not getting rid of this baby you didn't ask me

Bill and Joy: okay we're actually getting married because i'm quitting music because i can't play the piano yeah.

Bill: He doesn't he doesn't say he doesn't say like i want to get he's you're marrying me.

Bill and Joy: Excuse me what the

Bill and Joy: fuck there's literally two somewhat okay

Bill and Joy: because they either like minimalize them or like

Bill and Joy: infantilize them in the movie as you're watching it especially the

Bill and Joy: character of jess right and you can make that argument for claire as

Bill and Joy: well uh the first victim she yeah you

Bill and Joy: know she's like the whole like virginal one as was said before

Bill and Joy: um but that's just that's just razzing on

Bill and Joy: your girl right like is it nice no should they have no but at the same time

Bill and Joy: uh that was other women doing that to her as well which speaks to the time as

Bill and Joy: well right and it was the more masculine uh woman in the group doing it and

Bill and Joy: then you had like officer nash officer nash was absolutely useless it doesn't

Bill and Joy: do anything right how is he still in the police force in here that's.

Evan: Why isn't that.

Bill: Because that's what police do.

Bill and Joy: And then what really made me think okay

Bill and Joy: maybe they were trying to say something about like that the

Bill and Joy: women's liberation movement of the time where like the phil and

Bill and Joy: jess they both freak out when just these two

Bill and Joy: random dudes are in their windows and they're waving and doing

Bill and Joy: all this stuff hey ladies you know you gotta be careful you gotta do this you

Bill and Joy: gotta do that and they're like actively trying to tell them okay cool we're

Bill and Joy: gonna close the door and they just keep talking keep talking keep talking and

Bill and Joy: the joke at the time i guess could be like oh just you know two old like two

Bill and Joy: older men checking in on these young women you know they want to be seen as

Bill and Joy: the heroes they want to feel good whatever but if I was them I'd been like no,

Bill and Joy: get uh i'm calling the cops get out of my window 100 why are you here why are

Bill and Joy: you here right um so shout out to anybody who's listening to this watch the

Bill and Joy: second one after the first one if you haven't seen it yet.

Evan: Well for one i also really like the den mother mrs mac as well like her character

Evan: she's like hiding booze and books in the toilet so also it's kind of gross to

Evan: drink out of the bottle after it was inside of the toilet tank just for just

Evan: just to throw that out there that's.

Bill: Clean water evan that's.

Evan: I i know that but it's still kind of gross it's just

Evan: a principle of doing that like the pipes are dirty okay i

Evan: don't care if the water is clean but like the like her i love the scene where

Evan: the father of claire comes to the house and the mrs mac is like holding her

Evan: hand over this photo of you know like like people having sex on the wall and

Evan: i just i I think the aspect of it being raunchy, too,

Evan: is almost to show, in some ways, is like, yes,

Evan: women also can be like this.

Evan: They also can have, you know, desires and things like these,

Evan: where typically it's only the men that can have those in these,

Evan: like, slasher horror genre.

Bill and Joy: And I think it's also really cool that, like, throughout the movie,

Bill and Joy: you see the woman trying to break out of this, like, whole role, right?

Bill and Joy: especially like they joined the search party right when they're looking for

Bill and Joy: the 13 year old and for claire they they party they have drunk i wasn't crazy

Bill and Joy: about barb feeding the kid alcohol that wasn't cool yeah that's not cool at all did.

Bill: She just give that kid booze.

Bill and Joy: A lot of booze,

Bill and Joy: a lot of booze acknowledges it i think it's

Bill and Joy: more and then uh the

Bill and Joy: dad claire's dad who shows up he's just chill about it he's more disappointed

Bill and Joy: like he never you never really see him start to get worried until well into

Bill and Joy: the movie or yeah they like get worried to well into the movie he's more just

Bill and Joy: disappointed in his daughter like what what am i paying for this college education

Bill and Joy: for you know he's like non nonchalant yeah.

Bill: He's like nonchalantness kind of blew me away i'm like dude your daughter is missing like why.

Bill and Joy: I'd be going scorched earth in the only seriously in the and like the first

Bill and Joy: one of the first comments like that he like ever ever makes it's like,

Bill and Joy: nonchalant is just talking about her dorm room where he's like i'll make

Bill and Joy: i'll remedy this i'll see to it and it's

Bill and Joy: like it's not like a uh oh he's gonna go complain to

Bill and Joy: the college way it's like he thinks he's gonna be able to talk to

Bill and Joy: his daughter to set her straight away and it's like dog you got bigger things to

Bill and Joy: worry about right now your very reliable daughter didn't tell

Bill and Joy: you that she was gonna be late never showed up you

Bill and Joy: had to go to her house she's not at her house on

Bill and Joy: the day she's supposed to leave from everything you know about claire as a character

Bill and Joy: leading up to this from what you hear from the other girls talking about her

Bill and Joy: is that's not her immediately i if i was her daddy i'd have been like uh-oh

Bill and Joy: we're the cops we're we're searching this house up like top to bottom i'd have

Bill and Joy: found her i'd have found i'd have found claire in like the first five minutes

Bill and Joy: of being in that house even.

Evan: When they sorry dad no i'm just gonna even when they go to the cops to report

Evan: her missing and the father is there he doesn't even really say anything he just kind of just.

Bill and Joy: Sits there sort.

Evan: Of like I'm this ominous presence over the college kids you know to give them

Evan: some kind of credibility.

Bill and Joy: It takes the hometown boy being recognized throwing a fit for them to do anything about it yeah.

Bill: He is the only decent male character in the entire movie.

Evan: Are you saying that the that,

Evan: The chief, you know, played by John Saxon, isn't good because.

Bill and Joy: No, he's a cop.

Evan: Yeah, I get that. I understand.

Bill: And he.

Bill and Joy: This is left of the projector. We think we're going to be fans of cops.

Evan: ACAB includes him, obviously.

Bill: Not only that, but like at the end, it's the spoiler alert.

Bill: They never. First of all, spoiler alert. They never find Claire. Okay.

Bill: Which blew my mind. He's in the

Bill: window. The fact that they never find her body, fucking, I was shocked.

Bill: I was like, they just, that's, we're just going to, like, we're ending there.

Bill: Like, we still don't know that.

Evan: Anyway. They don't find the dead mother either.

Bill: No, they do not, because she's with Claire. Okay, but that cop,

Bill: literally just in classic cop sense at the end of it, and this is why I don't

Bill: include him as a competent male figure in the movie,

Bill: because I always knew it was him the boyfriend and the just he he goes with

Bill: what he thought and they fucked off and.

Bill and Joy: Left her there alone with somebody just standing at the front.

Bill: Yeah take her ass to the hospital immediately where's the ambulance fucking

Bill: wild i mean i don't know is that what happened in 1974 when people like apparently

Bill: in canada they took the father away but.

Evan: They take the father away because he has a panic attack and they're like get him to the hospital.

Bill: Yeah and it stands.

Bill and Joy: By the misogyny that the movie is trying to project.

Bill: Yeah. I'm like, is this what it was like in 1974?

Bill: Did people get murdered in houses and then the other people in the house are

Bill: just like, eh, fuck you. Like, what the fuck?

Bill and Joy: Well, hold on.

Evan: I do want to say.

Bill and Joy: One thing they have going for them is Mrs. Mack wasn't supposed to be at the

Bill and Joy: house anyway. They didn't think to even look for her.

Evan: Right. They just assumed she'd left.

Bill: Okay.

Bill: That's real...

Evan: Low bar another thing that's like the that

Evan: a trope that i think is the obvious one that's kind

Evan: of you see in like you see this in halloween you

Evan: see it in uh in like freddie

Evan: uh the the nightmare on elm street series is

Evan: both women are not believed and just like peep you know those kids are not believed

Evan: for anything is that they're they're trying to get someone to take seriously

Evan: that people are calling their sorority house and messing with them and they

Evan: don't care like that guy nash he's like oh okay well uh what can we what can

Evan: i do i'm just the man of the law,

Evan: you know and just the idea

Evan: that women are not believed is push well

Evan: but they also show that they have agency because

Evan: you have you know we later see that jess like sort of the main the final girl

Evan: i guess you could call her is the one who says she's not she's gonna have an

Evan: abortion because she can control her own body so the women like have autonomy

Evan: in this but they also sort of don't kind of this i.

Bill and Joy: Think it shows the fight for autonomy at the time yeah you

Bill and Joy: know yeah that's exactly what i was feeling especially like because

Bill and Joy: you hear her and she's giving the reasons as to why she doesn't want to give

Bill and Joy: birth right she's young she has all these things she wants to do she has no

Bill and Joy: interest in having a kid right now right maybe if patrick would have been such

Bill and Joy: a shithead you know which honestly i didn't like that and you hear it from the

Bill and Joy: other characters as well like nobody likes patrick well.

Bill: He is a 30 year old man dating a i'm sorry i think it's 37 year old man dating like a 20 year old.

Bill and Joy: Who's been at a conservatory for eight years and is still getting nervous about

Bill and Joy: recitals dude let it alone.

Evan: He just sucks at piano like dude can't play and.

Bill: Then he has a temper tantrum and destroys it when she goes he's never been violent

Bill: like this before, I was like,

Bill: I don't believe that. I don't believe that.

Bill and Joy: Which is why I was really upset because even saying in the movie,

Bill and Joy: like, let's do a background on Patrick.

Bill and Joy: It's like, I want to hear Patrick's background. What's up? I bet you I can get some of it right.

Evan: I feel like the cop sees that he destroyed the piano. He's like,

Evan: I knew he did it. That's him.

Evan: Like, he goes in there and he gets the call to go back. And briefly,

Evan: he sees the piano destroyed also.

Evan: So I think he just wants to leave and get married so he doesn't have to pay for the piano.

Bill: Is that how that works?

Evan: Yes.

Bill: When you get married, they let you destroy a piano?

Evan: No, no, no.

Bill and Joy: He just, in Canada. Well, no, because he has to help pay for it.

Bill and Joy: Yeah. Because man is yours, baby.

Bill and Joy: Yeah, you've seen him smash plates at Greek weddings, right?

Bill and Joy: Or something like that. I don't know. I don't know.

Bill: In Canada, they smash pianos.

Bill and Joy: It's pianos. Yeah, exactly.

Bill: He also breaks some of their Christmas tree ornaments.

Bill and Joy: That's also part of the wedding ceremony in Canada.

Bill: Like, he's clearly like.

Bill and Joy: That's another thing you're allowed to break.

Bill: That man is not okay. He needs anger management.

Bill and Joy: I know off the top of my head, at least five people that I've met in my life

Bill and Joy: and had conversations that pertain to like abortion.

Bill and Joy: Like, hey, you know, it's always the like the theoretical because none of them,

Bill and Joy: none of them even had girlfriends at the time.

Bill and Joy: So it's like, well, what would you do? And they're like, you know,

Bill and Joy: I'm, I'm, I'm me. So I'm gonna get into it with you.

Bill and Joy: They're like, oh, no, never. I would never let my girl. It's like,

Bill and Joy: why? Why wouldn't you? First of all, it's her. She has to do all the work.

Bill and Joy: What if? Okay, so let me ask you this.

Bill and Joy: What if she says, all right, I'll surrogate for you. I don't want anything.

Bill and Joy: I'm a sign of my parental rights. all these things.

Bill and Joy: What will you say? And they're always like, well, no, no, she,

Bill and Joy: she, a baby needs the mom.

Bill and Joy: Like, all right, two years in, she agrees to take care of the baby for two years.

Bill and Joy: And then she's out. What would you say?

Bill and Joy: Well, no, it's like, yeah, no, because you don't want the kid.

Bill and Joy: You want her and you're going to use the kid to keep her. Dude, don't even.

Bill and Joy: But I can almost assure you that that scene in that movie probably did start

Bill and Joy: a lot of conversation around abortion and like why women have them in the first

Bill and Joy: place and also like what they have to deal with, whatever they tell their partner.

Bill and Joy: Right. Because that's I mean, personal opinion, that is right.

Bill and Joy: You talk to your partner about it, let them know what you want and then go go

Bill and Joy: about it from there. Right.

Bill and Joy: Unless you unless maybe maybe he had never acted like that.

Bill and Joy: He just broke his brain, the whole being bad at piano, finally coming to coming

Bill and Joy: to a head and it broke his brain. and he decided to take it out on her, right?

Bill and Joy: But like, maybe he would have, like, if there was somebody that reacts like

Bill and Joy: that, I wouldn't have said nothing. And she even mentions that,

Bill and Joy: I thought about not telling you.

Bill and Joy: I'm trying to be a good person and letting you know what's going on.

Evan: I mean, I think even having that conversation with a man at that time is probably...

Bill: At that time.

Evan: I was gonna say, like, normally, they probably would just do it on their own,

Evan: would tell their friend, you know, their friend take them to the clinic and

Evan: they would just do it and never tell them.

Evan: And this actually confronting the boyfriend about it.

Evan: I mean, I understand that, I don't know how political Bob Clark was trying to

Evan: go with it, you know, if it was intentional or just he didn't write the movie.

Evan: So he just kind of changed some of the elements. But just having just being

Evan: able to bring it up to a man in 1974, I think, is political,

Evan: whether he meant it or not.

Bill: Well, he does say specifically that like he wanted the characters to not be stupid.

Evan: Yes.

Bill: In the way American films were like that. He wanted them to be treated like actual human adults.

Evan: Yes. Because the original script had them be more goofy like American films.

Evan: And he's like, no, we have to change that. Like that was the big thing he changed. So.

Bill and Joy: Good call. Good call.

Bill and Joy: Honestly, 70s were a really bad time for American filmmakers, although Porky's.

Bill: Yeah. That's what blows my mind. This man went on to make Porky's? What the fuck?

Bill and Joy: Okay, do not shit on Porky's.

Bill: Okay, I've never seen Porky's. All I know about Porky's is it's a raunchy sex comedy.

Bill and Joy: It is the great-great-grandfather of all the National Lampoon,

Bill and Joy: American Pies, all that.

Bill and Joy: It's freaking hilarious.

Bill: But, like, it doesn't seem like the philosophical, like,

Bill: descendant, like following act of this.

Evan: I disagree though, actually.

Bill and Joy: This is left of the projector pod. We can always find nuance.

Bill and Joy: We can always put a leftist analysis and critique on it.

Evan: I've never seen Porky's. Without giving away Porky's, I mean,

Evan: maybe that's, we can get Bill to watch and we can discuss it.

Evan: But I think that Black Christmas is actually, I think that Black Christmas actually is a raunchy film.

Bill and Joy: How so?

Evan: I mean, you see, you see inside of women's

Evan: sorority house which typically in movies when you do it's

Evan: more like it's like very prim and proper and they're like you know

Evan: wealthy and they're you know they do things

Evan: all fancy you can see that in like uh like revenge

Evan: of the nerds and other films like it it's like very prim and

Evan: proper in this you see like barb and you see

Evan: the inside of a sorority house as they actually are

Evan: as like human beings in a college setting also wanting to let loose you have

Evan: all of those images and the posters on the wall and i think that raunchiness

Evan: bled over into making a movie like porky's like taking it much further into

Evan: like straight comedy whereas this is like a horror version of like a raunchy comedy.

Bill and Joy: I'm i'm rocking with you hold on because i

Bill and Joy: see let me let me say it and then i want to hear what you got to

Bill and Joy: say i think that speaks more to the maturity that you

Bill and Joy: mentioned earlier of the characters right because when

Bill and Joy: you talk about like revenge and the nerds and all that that is like

Bill and Joy: the male fantasy of what a sorority house would

Bill and Joy: be not the reality i feel as if

Bill and Joy: he brought this i feel as

Bill and Joy: if he brought like this reality to it to the

Bill and Joy: sorority house which i appreciated because yeah why wouldn't you have two naked

Bill and Joy: people making a peace sign i want that poster in my house as soon as my kid

Bill and Joy: as soon as my kid hits like 18 is out the door like i'm getting that in my house

Bill and Joy: sorry go ahead work i mean i completely agree with what you're saying.

Bill and Joy: I just wanted to use that and then tailspin it into,

Bill and Joy: The fact that Evan's just such a boomer that he thinks real characters are raunchy. Word.

Bill and Joy: Word. Is that an ankle I see?

Evan: Well, it's funny because I haven't seen Porky's in a long time, to be fair.

Evan: But it's also the 80s. I feel like it's a—I mean, I know it was 1981 when it

Evan: came out, but era-wise, I think it's sort of like a change.

Evan: This is seven years earlier in the early 70s. Like you could do,

Evan: you know, different things. Yeah.

Evan: I don't know. I don't know what I'm trying to say with that.

Bill: It is definitely a different time.

Bill and Joy: Although, on this same track, but we're going to backtrack a little bit.

Bill and Joy: Whenever we were talking about Psycho, Psycho was inherently sexual.

Bill and Joy: This movie was not, which I really appreciated.

Evan: That's true.

Bill and Joy: You don't know what the killer's motivations are this entire time.

Bill and Joy: You just know that he has something. Like, yeah, oh, he's a creep.

Bill and Joy: He's definitely a creep. The moaner, as they call him.

Bill and Joy: But then it changes and it escalates. And something happened to push the killer over the edge.

Bill and Joy: you that's part of the suspense and part of like the on edge of your seat at

Bill and Joy: the end of the movie sorry spoilers is that you never find out who's billy who's

Bill and Joy: agnes what did agnes do to billy if you knew agnes was bad why'd you leave.

Evan: Billy there's lots of theories there's theories on like the whole

Evan: yeah like what i mean one theory also

Evan: is that he originally was just calling the house you know from somewhere wherever

Evan: he lives you know and then this is like the escalation i I think his motivation

Evan: is like emasculation or some sort of traumatic event where maybe he hurt his

Evan: sister or he saw something messed up.

Evan: Because the way that they have him sort of looking through the attic door and

Evan: the one time you see his eye, which is super creepy, and his face,

Evan: like when he's in the attic and he throws the, what is it, like the hook?

Evan: I don't know what that thing is called. You know, like at the den mother.

Bill: It's like a pulley.

Evan: A pulley or whatever. Yeah. Which I don't know why they had that up there to begin with.

Bill: It's so weird.

Evan: It also seems clear to me that he maybe lived in that house as a child is another

Evan: theory. You know, I don't know.

Bill and Joy: See, my theory for this one is that maybe there's an emasculation,

Bill and Joy: something going on in his life, as you said before.

Bill and Joy: But I wonder, is Billy like a young family member who passed?

Bill and Joy: And is that why, like after hearing the conversation that Jess has with Patrick about the abortion,

Bill and Joy: right, that you wonder, and maybe he knew about it before, and that also led

Bill and Joy: to like some of the escalation, because you don't know that's his first time in the house.

Bill and Joy: He got up there real easy.

Evan: That's true.

Bill and Joy: But, but, so I'm wondering if that's, and that's why he concentrated on Jess

Bill and Joy: so hard and waited to kill her for last, is because she was the one and her

Bill and Joy: situation pushed him over that edge.

Bill and Joy: And why he couldn't help but keep repeating and bringing up, like, Agnes, right?

Evan: Yeah. I guess that makes, it does make sense that he would have been in the

Evan: house before, like, spying on them and knew things about them.

Bill and Joy: He moves around real comfortable.

Bill: Yeah, he does.

Bill and Joy: Like he knows where he's going he knows exactly where he's going there's no

Bill and Joy: like fumbling about i love the great it's also like good filmmaking but still oh.

Evan: Yeah that like the using like i guess they tied i don't didn't look into i assume

Evan: they just tied the handheld to his head like to a helmet or some kind and he

Evan: walked you know they show him only a few times where he's actually using his

Evan: hands to climb and it's super creepy.

Bill and Joy: Yeah i like those shots it really like pulls you out of like the nice cinematic

Bill and Joy: shots that you get before and after like the rest of the film And like when

Bill and Joy: it pulls you into those like janky first person camera moments,

Bill and Joy: it's like, oh, fuck, it's so unsettling.

Evan: Some of like the best, I mean, again, the cinematography in this is really good.

Evan: One of the most unsettling scenes that for me,

Evan: other than like not, not including the killing scenes, like there's a scene

Evan: where they're on the phone with him and all of like the phone rings and you

Evan: sort of see all of the different sorority house members sort of enter the room

Evan: all from different locations.

Evan: And then he zooms in to each of the individual faces, like slowly scanning all

Evan: of them as they're sort of like horrified by this.

Evan: And I think it, maybe we already said this before, it's the...

Evan: treatment that women experience in movies like

Evan: revenge of the nerds as a

Evan: good thing which that movie is deeply problematic and terrible it's not good

Evan: no it's really really really bad or animal house like you know that movie has

Evan: not aged well oh god really really bad and then this you sort of see the opposite

Evan: of like actually the impact that these things have on it.

Bill and Joy: Human it humanizes them. In a time where, I mean, this is a little bit off topic,

Bill and Joy: but on like, especially the portrayal of women in cinema, Ward and I were talking

Bill and Joy: about how women in the US cinema were portrayed, especially black women and

Bill and Joy: the hyper-sexualization of them.

Bill and Joy: I attributed it at the time to basically kind of like,

Bill and Joy: almost like a psyop, like, you know, like just tearing down the women's liberation

Bill and Joy: movement, especially in that hyper-sexualization of specifically like black

Bill and Joy: and brown women because they were so like at the forefront of that movement.

Bill and Joy: And it just kind of like took away some of that power.

Bill and Joy: So it was really cool to watch a movie from that time that gave some of that

Bill and Joy: power and some of that autonomy back to them.

Evan: Yeah, it does do that.

Bill and Joy: I know what y'all think of that, but.

Evan: What was I just going to say about that?

Bill: I mean, that makes sense. I mean.

Bill and Joy: I might be fishing here too.

Bill: The treatment of the female characters is. What's the curly girls?

Bill: What's her curly haired girl?

Bill and Joy: That's Phil.

Evan: Phyllis.

Bill: Phil.

Evan: Yeah.

Bill: Her character is treated so. She's clearly like a college student.

Bill: Despite the fact they're all like fucking 30. um but like

Bill: it goes back to like where he's like these are like real

Bill: people who deserve respect and

Bill: are thinking things are like that woman is a

Bill: reasonable person throughout the entire thing just like cares about things maternal

Bill: figure yeah she's totally she is the most responsible character but she's also

Bill: not an outlier she doesn't make the other ones look stupid or silly despite

Bill: standing apart in so many ways it's.

Bill and Joy: A healthy female friendship.

Bill: Yeah yeah.

Bill and Joy: Which is something that you didn't see a lot and you honestly don't see very often now in movies.

Bill: Right there.

Bill and Joy: Even with even like the movie can pass the bechdel test but you always got that

Bill and Joy: one person who's uh basically like in the movie coined like the one that's slightly above right

Bill and Joy: And they managed to not do that with the character of Phil, which,

Bill and Joy: by the way, they bring up that Phil has a boyfriend out of nowhere.

Bill and Joy: And it makes you wonder, like, oh, hey, is that a clue?

Bill: It's the guy. It's the Santa Claus guy.

Evan: No.

Bill: That's not.

Bill and Joy: Santa Claus guy is somebody else. Santa Claus guy was supposed to meet up with.

Bill: No, he's in the very beginning. He comes back as Santa Claus later on.

Bill: He's the very beginning. He's the guy with the giant afro and beard.

Evan: I don't think that was her boyfriend, though. I don't think.

Bill: Oh, he wasn't?

Evan: I don't think so.

Bill and Joy: No. Oh, I thought he was your boyfriend. No, because he wasn't dating the girl

Bill and Joy: he was supposed to go with. He had been working on it for three weeks.

Bill: Oh, okay. All right. I understood that. Okay.

Evan: This is like a completely unrelated, just a random note. The guy who plays Chris,

Evan: who I guess was Claire's boyfriend, who has that pretty sick fur coat, or just like super 70s.

Evan: he was originally like he was going to be the

Evan: uh peter character so like the the main sort of i guess villain but yeah the

Evan: guy's but they yeah well i mean i think it was that they had already hired the

Evan: other guy for that spot and he's like oh man like you know it's too late we

Evan: already offered it to him because

Evan: part of the rules for for these canadian films they have to have 60,

Evan: canadian actors and then 40 could be american or whatever because you know i.

Bill and Joy: Mean funded by the Canadian government like that I mean that.

Evan: Makes sense.

Bill and Joy: I mean they're they're providing jobs uh huh.

Evan: Yeah, what do you think of the sort of the main character, Jess, like as her character?

Evan: I mean, she was sort of like already kind of famous because she was in the 1968

Evan: Romeo and Juliet and like got, was like a huge star in.

Bill and Joy: I knew I knew her.

Evan: Yeah, and so that's why she, they like brought her in to sort of be the star

Evan: of the movie. You know, like people that people knew at the time.

Bill: I love the story as to how she got this.

Evan: Oh, yeah, that's good.

Bill: How she came to this.

Evan: Go ahead, do tell it.

Bill: She went to a psychic, and the psychic told her that she would make a movie

Bill: in Canada that made a lot of money, and that's why she took the role, which is fucking wild.

Evan: And she doesn't actually consider it to be, like, all the people who were in

Evan: it at the time didn't think they were making, if they're making a good movie,

Evan: but they didn't think they were making a movie that anyone would care about.

Bill and Joy: It's such a cult classic.

Evan: Yeah, like all of the people who are alive, for the most part,

Evan: the actors, like do the circuit of, you know, horror conventions because most

Evan: of them aren't successful actors.

Evan: They weren't, you know, exactly successful. The only one in the movie,

Evan: I think, that was became, I wouldn't call him successful, but people,

Evan: he's in movies that people know, was John Saxon, who also wasn't supposed to be the cop.

Evan: He took the role two days before the movie because the first person dropped

Evan: out. And what's also interesting is that he is considered to be,

Evan: he was in the first ever, like, Italian slasher, like, the Jello movie.

Evan: And a lot of people call this the first American, or Canadian,

Evan: the first North American slasher movie.

Evan: So it's kind of, he has, like, a lot of interesting things to say about the movie.

Evan: It's worth watching his interviews. He's kind of a weird dude.

Bill and Joy: I wanted to see something.

Evan: He's also in Nightmare on Elm Street as the cop, too, so I guess he was kind

Evan: of typecast as the doofus cop.

Bill and Joy: Because I...

Bill and Joy: Okay, maybe y'all can help me because I suck at Googling things.

Bill and Joy: Is Officer Nash Frank from Gallagher or Frank Gallagher from Shameless?

Evan: No, I don't think so.

Bill: No, no. Wait.

Bill and Joy: Because I swear he reminded me of him.

Bill: Do you mean which Shameless?

Bill and Joy: The American Shameless.

Bill: No.

Bill and Joy: No?

Evan: I haven't seen that, so I couldn't tell you.

Bill and Joy: William H. Macy.

Evan: Oh, okay. I see. The main character. I could have said that,

Evan: yeah. I think that guy, the actor wasn't in much except for like some Bob Clark movies.

Evan: He was in Porky's as the gym teacher.

Evan: He was in some other like very small roles. I don't think he, he didn't do it to a ton.

Bill: Yeah, he really, he has, he's not been in a lot.

Evan: He was in the Twilight Zone.

Bill: He was in the Twilight Zone movie. He was in the Rocketeer as like literally reporter number three.

Bill: Like he, you know, he never made, he didn't make it big.

Evan: You know what movie he was in? he was in john carpenter's ghost of mars which

Evan: if people know that movie it's not that good.

Bill and Joy: I gotta say though um officer nash i really wish that the killer would have got.

Evan: Him i did not like him i love i love his the when barb was like yes the new

Evan: exchange is fellatio whatever the number was and he like didn't know what that

Evan: meant and then the officers the other.

Bill: Detective i that other His entire role in the entire movie is just to laugh

Bill: at Officer Nash. That's his job.

Bill: That's how he got cast. They were like, hey, do you want to come for a role?

Bill: Your entire job is to laugh at this one guy. Just laugh at him. That's your job.

Bill: That's all he does.

Bill and Joy: Solid job.

Bill: Yeah. And he does a great job at it.

Evan: I mean, that's on par on Brand for Cops, right?

Bill: Yeah. Yeah.

Bill and Joy: Yeah, no, but like, and like the scene that he frustrated me throughout the

Bill and Joy: entire movie, but the one that got me the worst was when he does literally the wrong thing.

Bill and Joy: He is told, hey, just tell her, don't hang up the phone, just walk out the door,

Bill and Joy: be calm, be cool, collected, immediately loses his cool.

Bill and Joy: Starts screaming at her that the killer is in the house. Bruh, bruh.

Evan: Yeah, Google.

Bill: He's not smart.

Evan: Google 40% of cops and you can see why he did that. But he does utter the great

Evan: line of, the call is coming from inside the house.

Bill: Yeah.

Evan: He had one job, he failed, but he gave us that line.

Bill and Joy: Valid. Was it worth it?

Evan: Well.

Bill and Joy: But at what cost?

Evan: But it is sort of funny. He's continuously working this whole time and just

Evan: botching everything. He doesn't understand jokes.

Bill: He's bad at his job.

Evan: Yeah. I also think it's absolutely hysterical the way they had to capture the,

Evan: like, to trace the phone call, which I still don't quite understand.

Evan: He's, like, running through the phone company place, like, looking for,

Evan: like, things that are clicking. I don't.

Bill and Joy: I mean, it's also the 70s. That makes sense to me.

Evan: I guess, yeah. And Canada.

Bill and Joy: You know? Like, also, shout out to linemen.

Bill and Joy: It's a hard job.

Bill: I 100% I was just like, there is a lot of cardio for what I would imagine is a very technical job.

Bill: Like this man is running for his life. I'm like,

Bill: I want to know, I want to know the logistics behind all of that because that

Bill: is, I got to be honest, I finished this movie and I'm like, now I want to research

Bill: the way phones worked in 1974.

Bill and Joy: Because that's.

Bill: A fucking what a giant room and you have to like physically go to this like thing like what the hell.

Bill and Joy: Is happening it makes sense though because like in like the up

Bill and Joy: until like i want to say the early 60s they still had the women sitting there

Bill and Joy: and like connecting the call the operator you know what i mean yeah yeah like

Bill and Joy: manually so it makes sense that even though like okay yeah it's automated now

Bill and Joy: uh you'd still it'd still be very much the same idea of like okay I got it started here.

Bill and Joy: So over here now, it's like, trying to keep up. You know what I mean?

Bill and Joy: It still shouldn't be that physically exhausting to trace a phone call.

Bill and Joy: Well, no, because think about it. He has to, he has to see all of them, right?

Bill and Joy: Like which one started at this exact time?

Evan: It was, I also love when they're asking them about.

Bill and Joy: They ain't got a display board. No, because it's the seventies ward.

Bill and Joy: They had display boards.

Evan: I mean, the CIA would have had a much better way to trace the call.

Bill: Yeah, obviously.

Bill and Joy: They wouldn't use it to help people. See, that's the scene that should have

Bill and Joy: happened is like he goes into like the actual like the main fucking phone company's

Bill and Joy: room and goes, I can't fucking figure it out.

Bill and Joy: And then runs down the hall to the CIA fucking annex that's built into the phone

Bill and Joy: company and goes, ah, there it is. It's coming from inside the house.

Bill and Joy: Like he even has access.

Bill and Joy: The security clearance is clear in there, but.

Bill and Joy: It's already physically exhausting, apparently, to trace a phone call.

Bill and Joy: He's already acting like he's so over it.

Bill and Joy: Yes, there's a sense of urgency, but he's more frustrated. Like,

Bill and Joy: I'm trying to do my job well.

Bill and Joy: Which I can understand. I appreciate

Bill and Joy: professionalism. You want to do your job, you want to do it well.

Bill and Joy: But, buddy, people are dying. You can have some empathy while you do it.

Bill: I don't know. Honestly, I take it back.

Bill: The boyfriend wasn't the only man worth a damn in the movie.

Bill: The phone man actually did seem to care.

Evan: He did. So this is unrelated to this movie, and we don't need to talk about them.

Evan: I actually have not seen the remakes or the sequel, whatever they are.

Evan: Are they worth watching?

Bill and Joy: I really enjoyed the 2019 one.

Evan: I've heard the 2006 one isn't good, but I haven't heard much about the newest one.

Bill and Joy: I haven't seen that one. The newest one, like I said in the beginning,

Bill and Joy: I wish I would have watched it after I watched the first one.

Bill and Joy: Because now what I can remember, because it's been a couple of years,

Bill and Joy: now what I can remember of the 2016 one,

Bill and Joy: i it clicks for me a lot better and

Bill and Joy: it's not so much that they remade it they built off

Bill and Joy: of it and made it their own okay interesting but if i remember correctly they

Bill and Joy: still do a pretty good job of keeping true and trying to like give these characters

Bill and Joy: autonomy um nobody gets dressed up in the stupid little sorority frilly like

Bill and Joy: sexy outfits or anything like that like these women are women who are actively

Bill and Joy: trying not to die you know i mean yeah.

Evan: I think i just was looking the newest one the one from 2019 was directed by

Evan: sophia takal and i don't know her that well but it's directed by a woman which

Evan: i find interesting because some of the,

Evan: better horror movies and satires about these kind of things you know come from

Evan: women i think of american psycho or uh slumber party massacre directed by women

Evan: so i could see why it would be better and she's from new jersey.

Bill: Bill there you go all right all right okay for that from unclear i just.

Bill and Joy: Take that back.

Bill: No i'll you know i'll let it pass um i

Bill: uh i just the what the other

Bill: thing that i found like kind of interesting about this

Bill: in comparison to modern slashers is how like they don't know there being like

Bill: the the the actual deaths are so buried like the this it really is it's,

Bill: i wouldn't even call it a murder mystery it really is

Bill: more of a thriller because we you

Bill: don't find the characters don't find out anyone is

Bill: dead until like the last the

Bill: god fucking even into the third act true

Bill: like they just think they're dealing with the possibility of claire being dead

Bill: is never mentioned except for barb who says it in a drunken tangent yeah nobody

Bill: ever even brings that up like but you see.

Bill and Joy: I feel as if that's portraying more of the character's hope in the situation

Bill and Joy: because even after that 13 year that 13 year old is found like they still never

Bill and Joy: bring it up I feel like that's that humanity that's coming out in the movie.

Bill: Of

Bill and Joy: I don't want to think this about my friend. I refuse to until I see her cold

Bill and Joy: dead body. She's still alive. Right.

Bill and Joy: Which I thought was a really interesting element that they gave to the movie

Bill and Joy: where they're not, there's still hope during it, which I think is part of the

Bill and Joy: reason why I held that up so well, because you can feel there.

Bill and Joy: Yes, there's tension. There's worry. There's this, there's that.

Bill and Joy: But there's still hope holding out, you know, until the very end where like

Bill and Joy: just, and then like you get to see that character crumble right into her.

Bill and Joy: like i don't want to call it a manic state that's not

Bill and Joy: fair i would be manic anybody else would be finding two of

Bill and Joy: your best friends dead in a bed together yeah right and

Bill and Joy: even in that scene as well going back to it that scene he

Bill and Joy: obviously poses them but the pose is not anything that is like outright inappropriate

Bill and Joy: sexual anything like that it's there it's almost as if they're holding one another

Bill and Joy: like an embrace that is just inherently just like you know affection yeah you

Bill and Joy: know what i mean i thought that was a really interesting element but because.

Evan: A lot of slasher movies modern slasher movies don't really have or i think of

Evan: ones from the 80s even or you know the you know once scream came out like there

Evan: isn't a lot of hope in those movies and.

Bill and Joy: Positivity you.

Evan: Know like it's sort of just like everyone is just gonna die whereas in this

Evan: like you don't really know and the characters don't really know.

Bill and Joy: I think bill it adds to your own suspense as well so whatever she does hit that

Bill and Joy: point of like oh my god dude like finding them you're feeling it with her yeah.

Bill: But i just thought it was really an interesting you know it's such an interesting

Bill: take on it because it's so different from what we're used to it goes back to

Bill: again it's like for a film that is considered like the progenitor of the slasher

Bill: like this film like does not like it is barely there's no there's barely any gore,

Bill: death is like not a topic like it really is that is a secondary concern.

Evan: There's the only time you really hear about it's very interesting to me

Evan: when barb is having sort of her little

Evan: outburst with the father there and she sort of

Evan: is like oh you're like all blaming me like you know you won't say this

Evan: like i'm the one to blame other than that she's the harbinger and other than

Evan: yeah she's other than that like there is no real assumption like even after

Evan: what happened with the girl like they don't even again how is that dad so calm

Evan: it's like dude seriously when even after they i'm.

Bill and Joy: Gonna say it again the massage.

Evan: Even after they find like the girl's body which they

Evan: also don't show you just hear like the shriek in the background like yeah again

Evan: also just like this terrifying so another awesome thing is when a couple of

Evan: the murders happen i think it's actually when barb is murdered and they have

Evan: the kids outside caroling and they go like back and forth between like,

Evan: you know, the stabbing and then like the kids singing.

Evan: Like there's some amazing, you know, cuts in this movie that are just,

Evan: I don't know, you just don't like get that kind of...

Evan: You get lazy filmmaking from most horror movies.

Bill: Yes.

Bill and Joy: And I feel as if that just, like, disrespects the genre so much. And I love horror genre.

Evan: You just get, like, these schlocky-ass films.

Bill and Joy: Yeah, dude. Like, freaking Art the Clown from, like, The Terrifier.

Bill: God, I fucking hate those movies.

Bill and Joy: I hate those movies. And I have tried. I've tried so many times to watch them.

Bill and Joy: Like, there's no nothing to them.

Bill and Joy: It's just gore. It's not even good gore.

Bill: That is such, I mean, that is such a great thing to bring up because of those

Bill: movies, all three of those movies are considered like cult classics of the genre

Bill: in the contemporary genre.

Bill: And you get people referencing especially

Bill: the second one as a film that is more feminist and anti-misogynist and yet we

Bill: take this movie from 1974 and compare the two and this is such a richer exploration

Bill: of that and without that.

Bill: descending into the really not even just descending but using gore and um shock

Bill: value as a a cop-out for actually confronting such things because that those

Bill: movies i mean like i find them utterly detestable.

Bill and Joy: The scream movie that came out recently the one that had uh

Bill and Joy: the girlfriend with jenny ortega in it not the one where they're

Bill and Joy: in new york the one before that the remake yeah i

Bill and Joy: thought yeah i thought that one did a much better job or at least even coming

Bill and Joy: close to black christmas in regards to what you were just discussing bill than

Bill and Joy: any of the terrifier movies because oh i cannot go on like i need to actually

Bill and Joy: sit down and finally like finish one that's how bad it turns.

Evan: Out also that the director writer damian leone is also a piece too so like it doesn't doesn't.

Bill and Joy: Doesn't help the.

Evan: Case of the films being a feminist perception when he is a i don't think it's like he's.

Bill and Joy: It's like when people touted rr uh yeah rr martin jr.

Bill: George rr martin.

Bill and Joy: George rr martin thank you sorry told you

Bill and Joy: names but george rr martin whenever people were touting him as such a great

Bill and Joy: feminist during like the whole game of thrones series it's like how this is

Bill and Joy: what you consider feminism well like his main one of his main female characters

Bill and Joy: gets sold basically sold into

Bill and Joy: like into a marriage to somebody like okay i'm go ahead i want to hear it.

Bill: This is not a valid criticism of george rr martin because george rr martin did

Bill: not write those things in the books in the books that's not the way it happens

Bill: the book is totally different.

Bill and Joy: So i should be hating on the duffy brothers or whoever it was yes who is it i don't know whoever.

Evan: It was Because they've ruined the whole thing, pretty much.

Bill: Yeah. Okay. Okay. This is, like, George R.R.

Bill: Martin has his problems, don't get me wrong, but, like, all of the,

Bill: like, blatant, like, gross, violent misogyny is really...

Bill: really the show not the.

Bill and Joy: Books and not from martin i'm

Bill and Joy: still working on a lot of the books i'm not gonna lie i have so much

Bill and Joy: stuff i'm reading right now but and so they're like my little like break

Bill and Joy: from that but um yeah i'll give you that because like honestly like blood and

Bill and Joy: fire whatever which one like the whole like prequel to the game of thrones series

Bill and Joy: and all that uh that one yeah it was he was very like pro-feminist in that so

Bill and Joy: maybe okay yeah i'll just hate i'll hate on the film all like the like.

Evan: Disgusting uh like rape from the from the show is not in the books at all like

Evan: all that stuff is just added just i think it's like well we don't need to go

Evan: i mean i think it's the writers of the show wanting to really separate.

Bill and Joy: I think they were trying to make it exactly exactly.

Bill: That's totally what it was.

Bill and Joy: Which goes right back into what we were discussing about the Terrifier as opposed

Bill and Joy: to that Scream movie that I can't remember which one it is or Black Christmas

Bill and Joy: in which it was for purely shock value and then you're touting it as being pro-feminist.

Evan: If you haven't seen Slumber Party Massacre, the first one, not necessarily the

Evan: sequels, I would highly recommend it.

Evan: It was directed by and written by a woman and it is a very feminist,

Evan: I would almost argue more of a feminist film than this one.

Bill and Joy: Okay. But you see, that's something about this one. it's not

Bill and Joy: out like it wasn't until after like towards

Bill and Joy: the end of the movie i'm like damn like they're they're they're here

Bill and Joy: for the girlies i like this movie like it's not something that

Bill and Joy: was outright which again like brings us back to like the whole like did

Bill and Joy: he need to be political with this movie or it didn't just happen that

Bill and Joy: way because of how well it was done yeah what do

Bill and Joy: you guys think i mean i think it's just part of the whole like you know deciding

Bill and Joy: that and yeah everything's political and having making the decision no we're

Bill and Joy: gonna have like real characters that are like actual like intelligent characters

Bill and Joy: not just fucking doofuses running around getting slashed up right also give.

Evan: Canada like the thumbs up too because i don't think that an american director

Evan: an american film company would make that movie in 1974.

Bill and Joy: I feel as i feel as if we like especially americans tend to sleep on canadian

Bill and Joy: film and like canadian just like uh media in general they got some good stuff

Bill and Joy: okay like every time i i watch a show and i'm like dang i'm hooked on this show. It's out of Canada.

Bill: Talk about it.

Bill and Joy: I've actually been to canada and i had i've yet to meet a canadian who didn't say a boots

Bill and Joy: i i uh i was in oh my god where was it oh it was in nova scotia we were in nova

Bill and Joy: scotia and i was walking around i asked somebody's like hey do you know like

Bill and Joy: where like where the nearest bar is bud he goes yeah it's a boot to that uh

Bill and Joy: whatever whatever that way some kilometers i'm like ah Ah,

Bill and Joy: I love you. Say it again.

Evan: There are a lot of great Canadian shows.

Bill: There are a lot of, yeah.

Bill and Joy: Yes, and movies as well.

Bill: The sci-fi series Continuum is really good. That's a Canadian show.

Evan: Yeah, blanking on like, well, I mean, as far as like comedy goes,

Evan: like from the 90s, or I guess it was the 90s, Kids in the Hall,

Evan: I always liked that show.

Bill: Or we could just talk about Letterkenny.

Evan: Yeah.

Bill and Joy: Yeah, I was going to say Letterkenny. Come on. It's like right there.

Bill and Joy: To be fair. uh we walk the kids

Bill and Joy: together to school and she's canadian and she's actually from the town where

Bill and Joy: letter kenny is filmed in and has the accent and everything and i remember when

Bill and Joy: i first met her i'm like are you from the south because something something

Bill and Joy: it's so it's kind of southern but i there's something about it she goes oh no

Bill and Joy: and she told me that i'm like oh my god,

Bill and Joy: oh can you say let's get at her does she talk about the shmillies no she doesn't

Bill and Joy: she's actually really she's a she's a really sweet lady i really like her but

Bill and Joy: uh yeah no it was just like fun fact i'm like oh my god and she says a boot

Bill and Joy: and i'm like oh my god i love canada.

Evan: It's funny, like, when you go to the Wikipedia page for a lot of horror movies,

Evan: it'll have, you know, themes and things, like, from the movie.

Evan: There's none of that in the one for this movie, which kind of surprises me.

Evan: Like, if you, like, go online, like, look for, you know, people who've written about these.

Evan: Even film critics at the time panned this movie.

Evan: And then there's actually an interview in, like, this bonus feature on the Blu-ray

Evan: where it's, I think it's, like, 30 years later, they're interviewing a bunch

Evan: of people about the legacy.

Evan: and all these critics are like yeah i watched it back then i didn't like it

Evan: and then i watched it 10 years later i'm like oh man what the hell was i thinking

Evan: and i think people just like didn't,

Evan: view it as a good movie at the time just simply dismissing it as a crappy slasher

Evan: movie and then when they actually watched it with you know even a tiny bit of

Evan: critical thought like they could see it's a good well-made movie the characters

Evan: are believable you know everything about it.

Bill: I i genuinely think that has to

Bill: has to be like that this because

Bill: to go back to the very first thing that like joy

Bill: warden i also like this isn't a slasher film this

Bill: is it's a thriller and like i really

Bill: feel like it was almost like they didn't know what to make of

Bill: it because it's such a nascent it's it's the nascent like origin of the slasher

Bill: film it has like the elements to it but then partnered with it is that like

Bill: real like hardcore just like it's a thriller and it's like where are you going

Bill: with this and i i really just think it's like so distinct.

Evan: Yeah compared.

Bill and Joy: To other thrillers yeah.

Evan: Like the all of the the characters uh the

Evan: the interviews one the one with lynn griffin who plays claire and then the guy

Evan: who played chris uh art hindle there are a lot of interviews with them they're

Evan: not the most interesting people to be honest the interviews are a little bit

Evan: dry but they have like really good insights where they all are like this movie

Evan: was one of them actually think they say that they miss um

Evan: they didn't know how to market the movie either and i think that maybe goes

Evan: to the same point as they wanted to be like an american horror movie but it

Evan: wasn't you know it's more of a psychological thriller as i think what you're

Evan: saying which i think is reasonable i.

Bill and Joy: Would call it more like i would call it more like the like a granddaddy like

Bill and Joy: or grandmommy say uh of like a psych thriller i could get.

Evan: With that a lot of movies you know took things from

Evan: this like i don't know if you've my bloody valentine like the the

Evan: premise of the movie is the character like literally hides in

Evan: sort of a crevice by crawling in with a pov view and he claimed i can't think

Evan: of the directors now but he said later on that he didn't consciously try and

Evan: copy this movie he just sort of like that seemed like the right thing to do

Evan: and then he in retrospect's like yeah that was bob clark's idea i think a lot of movies use this the.

Bill: Person hiding in the attic is one of the most terrifying not not urban legends

Bill: real stories that happen real yeah it's so terrifying truly terrifying i.

Bill and Joy: Kept thinking about that the entire time and i was like this shit really happens.

Bill: Yeah like i literally like the i felt tension and you know like it made me feel

Bill: like i find three-story houses creepy.

Evan: Because when.

Bill: You're on the ground floor there's like two stories yeah two stories above you

Bill: is something that you are like totally removed from and you don't know what the fuck is happening i.

Evan: Mean they couldn't find the fucking bodies up there going on like anything.

Bill: Could be going on up there in the third floor and that house the way they shot

Bill: it they made it feel like a labyrinth oh yeah.

Evan: Yeah i mean you're right it.

Bill and Joy: Doesn't feel like a nice open floor plan at all no i think it honestly though

Bill and Joy: i think it adds to the suspense as well though because you don't know Well,

Bill and Joy: there you are the entire time.

Bill and Joy: I kept wondering, like, how have they not found that body yet?

Evan: Yeah. I mean...

Evan: So I guess it's actually four floors if you include the attic then,

Evan: Bill, right? And then plus the basement. I mean, it's a pretty – I.

Bill: Don't – no.

Bill and Joy: That's too many floors.

Bill: I don't include attics and basements as floors.

Evan: Okay, fine.

Bill: They're extraneous and they make it even creepier, but they're not floors.

Bill and Joy: What if it's a finished basement?

Bill: I live in a finished basement? Don't make me believe I live in a three-story house, okay?

Bill: Okay? Could you not do that? That'd be great.

Evan: The basement is super creepy. The basement is super creepy in this,

Evan: though, when she goes down there.

Bill and Joy: Yes.

Evan: Obviously, there's never a moment where I think the audience watching thinks

Evan: that it's Peter who did it because he's not really there doing it.

Evan: He's clearly not there doing it. But in some ways, you're like,

Evan: just like the way the cops assume that it's him, I think you're kind of given

Evan: in that last scene, like, could, is he capable of doing this?

Evan: Like, you know, he's this violent guy.

Bill: Yes, I do think he's capable.

Bill and Joy: For a half a minute, I did think it was, I did think it was,

Bill and Joy: I could call him Patrick, I'm sorry, Peter.

Bill and Joy: I did think it was Peter, but I didn't think Peter was the one making the phone calls.

Evan: But then you see the phone call, hear the phone, like the phone ringing as the

Evan: credits are rolling is so creepy.

Bill and Joy: I still think Peter was the killer because you're going to blame your girlfriend's

Bill and Joy: girls, right? Time on, time on her tradition.

Bill and Joy: Said sarcastically. I do think

Bill and Joy: that he was the killer. Although it doesn't explain Claire or Mrs. Mac.

Bill: He's not the killer. I'm sorry, Joy. He's 100% not the killer.

Bill: He's a terrible person. he's a terrible person but he's not that doesn't.

Bill and Joy: Make him a killer makes him a piece of shit it would make me happy yeah.

Evan: Like and that's also.

Bill: What makes the that's the fact that he's not i'm not being fair the fact that

Bill: he's not the killer i feel like actually lends credence like everything because first of all it's it.

Bill and Joy: Gives us an opportunity to shit on the cops again.

Bill: Well yes but also like it's the fact that like you don't have to be,

Bill: in this society of like misogyny, like the very fact that he behaves in that

Bill: way is what makes her ultimately more unsafe.

Bill: He is contributing to the deaths of those girls through his behavior because,

Bill: he makes an, you know, broader out from that, that behavior at large makes everyone unsafe.

Bill: Like he is indicative of a systemic problem.

Bill: He is definitely like a bad guy.

Bill: he's not the actual killer and like we know that because of like his location at times.

Evan: And she also says that well i mean the way out they try to imply too that he

Evan: could be the killer but isn't the person making the phone calls right because

Evan: he's there during one of the phone calls yes.

Bill and Joy: Yeah that's why i said maybe he's not the person making the phone calls but

Bill and Joy: he could be a little bit of two-man action but no bill's right i will i will see.

Evan: I just i movies horror movies

Evan: where they don't catch the killer i think are always just that much

Evan: creepier because i mean i guess it's a little different today like oh yeah they're

Evan: going to make 17 more sequels because they didn't you know catch the killer

Evan: but at the time i don't think that people didn't think that way just like oh

Evan: man this guy who's creeping in a basement he's just going to go to a different

Evan: or attic he's going to go to a different attic and you know kill a bunch of

Evan: more people and he's clearly very strong that was.

Bill and Joy: I feel like that's part of the appeal of the movie even now is because

Bill and Joy: like you have to use your imagination it's a movie

Bill and Joy: that you watch with your friends and then you sit there and you talk and you think

Bill and Joy: about it it's a conversation starter right there's so

Bill and Joy: obviously there's so much to talk about in this movie past critiques

Bill and Joy: I mean we were talking about who we think it was and all this stuff like I feel

Bill and Joy: as if the whole sequels thing sequel on sequel on sequel until you finally catch

Bill and Joy: the killer right it's it's not it doesn't contribute anything you're just waiting

Bill and Joy: for the sequel to come out and then going on TikTok and being like I really

Bill and Joy: hope they cast this person yeah.

Evan: I think that's why it's so great that Bob clark was like i would never make

Evan: a sequel to this and then you know he gives the idea and then it becomes spawns

Evan: a film that creates like 13 movies and not all by john carpenter obviously but

Evan: you know yeah a franchise that just,

Evan: may have ended we'll see.

Bill and Joy: Just because like um we haven't talked about it yet but the scene where the

Bill and Joy: one of the one of the guys gets shot in the butt with a birdshot by the farmer,

Bill and Joy: like i don't and the farmer's like i don't care if it's a church party i don't

Bill and Joy: care if he's a cop i'm gonna shove

Bill and Joy: it in sideways if i need to don't be trespassing on my land i'll shove.

Bill: It in sideways.

Bill and Joy: That whole.

Bill: Thing was great.

Bill and Joy: And it was such a it's such a ran and it

Bill and Joy: shouldn't be in the movie but it and it doesn't necessarily add

Bill and Joy: to the movie but it adds to the movie because it's like a weird like

Bill and Joy: shock giggle that you get and also the fact that they like totally it lightened

Bill and Joy: the mood for everybody at the police station because obviously the lieutenant

Bill and Joy: is like not freaking out but definitely like you know furring his brow like

Bill and Joy: okay what is going on here when they're talking about it and then here comes

Bill and Joy: this guy with birdshot in his ass and it's like alright,

Bill and Joy: this is hilarious okay but then you get into like that like,

Bill and Joy: the climax of the film is like oh shit like

Bill and Joy: it takes you by surprise I wonder if they did that on purpose or if they were

Bill and Joy: just trying to get that laugh or if they wanted to find a way to like work that

Bill and Joy: laugh in at such a pivotal moment you know what I mean to like really catch

Bill and Joy: you by surprise and add to that like what you're feeling whenever you watch

Bill and Joy: Jess of just like the anxiety of it all.

Bill: Yeah. She is a bundle of nerves.

Bill: I mean, except when she isn't like when she, which is, which is actually,

Bill: I feel like a real like point for like the, like the feminist notion of the

Bill: movie, like to go back long ago to, we talked about the abortion.

Bill: That is like such, it's like not the plot of the movie, but it's so important.

Bill: And it's such like an important thing for the time because like when she sits

Bill: down to talk to Peter about that. She is sure of herself.

Bill: She knows her decision. She is not quivering.

Bill: She's not quivering. She's not wavering. She knows what she wants.

Bill: And not only that, they don't make the argument for like why they don't stick

Bill: around. They don't, they don't cop out.

Bill: She says, I don't want a kid because I have hopes and dreams.

Bill: Not like we don't have the money or we're not married or blah blah blah no i

Bill: want to travel i want to learn things i want to do things that's what she says.

Bill and Joy: And it's a totally fucking valid point to

Bill and Joy: make 100 and as somebody who was

Bill and Joy: wasting his time at a music conservatory when he wasn't terrible okay should

Bill and Joy: understand that and totally disregards everything that he just told her and

Bill and Joy: i don't i correct me if him wrong he never once actually tells her like i love

Bill and Joy: you i want to be no he does he says i love.

Bill: You to her over the phone and she goes i know.

Bill and Joy: It's so great,

Bill and Joy: It's great when somebody else does it, but when I do it to you,

Bill and Joy: you get mad. That's rude and inconsiderate.

Bill: Straight up busted out laughing when she did that.

Bill and Joy: Oh, God. But even then, though, it doesn't feel – you're jogging my memory now.

Bill and Joy: It didn't feel like he was – he said it in a pleading way.

Bill: Oh, yeah, no.

Bill and Joy: Not in an honest way. That was totally toxic.

Evan: I love you.

Bill: Absolutely. That was not a genuine I love you.

Bill and Joy: But and it's but it

Bill and Joy: does tie in very well with the whole like she's

Bill and Joy: anxious until she's not yeah and speaking

Bill and Joy: to the you know these are humans these are mature adults these

Bill and Joy: are not goofballs who are getting themselves killed you know

Bill and Joy: what i mean and i really like the way in

Bill and Joy: the end whenever she takes that fire poker to her mans

Bill and Joy: you know uh because honestly and

Bill and Joy: no because it's a valid thing because i'm sure there

Bill and Joy: are people watching that movie it's like well she could see it was him and like

Bill and Joy: blah blah whatever and all this it couldn't be him and she knows that it's like

Bill and Joy: okay fight or flight yeah you don't know what you would do you don't know she

Bill and Joy: could have had a if one thing would have been different maybe she would have

Bill and Joy: had a different response,

Bill and Joy: but let's look at the facts here right not to mention he also like he threatened

Bill and Joy: her he threatened her hard over the phone is was it over the phone he called her yeah.

Bill: It was over the phone yeah.

Bill and Joy: Yeah yeah over the phone as well which is already like something that is so

Bill and Joy: stress inducing for what she's been dealing with yeah dude it's weird.

Evan: He's like breaking he's like breaking the glass down there too like in the basement like he's he's.

Bill and Joy: Acting super aggressive i feel as if they if we were gonna say that this movie

Bill and Joy: like seeing it from like you know a political standpoint or not even a political

Bill and Joy: standpoint but just a standpoint as a female of a dude but i was dating decided

Bill and Joy: that he first of all we just had a huge fight he's not listening to me,

Bill and Joy: I'm already trying to break up with him and he breaks a fucking window.

Bill and Joy: Hell yeah. I'm swinging. That's not safe.

Bill: Yeah.

Bill and Joy: That is somebody who's not thinking correctly. Yeah.

Bill and Joy: you know what i mean.

Evan: Yeah like.

Bill and Joy: I don't find i didn't find her actions to be manic whatsoever.

Evan: No like there's like the question at the end like oh like the i think the press

Evan: is like you know is she gonna be charged or like is she gonna be at fault and like no self-defense.

Bill: Yeah heck.

Evan: No she's good.

Bill: She's good can.

Bill and Joy: You tell i really like this movie yeah.

Evan: It's one of.

Bill: Yeah it's good i really again like

Bill: you know this isn't the kind of movie like i'm gonna like revisit but

Bill: it is like from a

Bill: like a like a movie enjoy like you know a person

Bill: who enjoys movies and like history and like edison as a former english major

Bill: dropout um there's just so much to this movie and it's like you can really see

Bill: like the seeds of things and it's it's an interesting it's a fascinating like

Bill: just like intellectual like piece to like watch nah.

Bill and Joy: I absolutely agree that's how i really felt about it it was like yeah i don't

Bill and Joy: know if i'm gonna re-watch this a whole lot but watching it And like knowing

Bill and Joy: that, oh, it was like the impetus and like the inspiration for a lot of things.

Bill and Joy: But seeing how like markedly distinct it is compared to the rest of the genre,

Bill and Joy: just fascinating. It was incredible.

Evan: I, on the other hand, watch this movie like once a year or so.

Bill and Joy: This might mean to go into the christmas rotation i can make it happen like

Bill and Joy: yeah but what still pisses me off is you could see her from that.

Evan: Window,

Evan: this is one i'll like leave one final fact is the person

Evan: who plays uh claire she's

Evan: the one who dies first during her interview or

Evan: during her like when she was interviewing for the role she said

Evan: that part of her past was being a swimmer and that

Evan: she could hold her breath for a really long time so that led

Evan: her to be able to do the stunt with her with the

Evan: bag over her head because she could actually hold her breath all the time and

Evan: the scene where she's in the rocking chair with like the bags over

Evan: her head bob clark is actually making the rocking

Evan: chair move with his foot while while they're filming it

Evan: and they throw the cat on her several times to try and get the cat like doing

Evan: the perfect shot they just throw the cat on her like maybe it'll do it do it

Evan: where you know do a good job it's not the cat from uh girl who walks alone at

Evan: night but you know no it's not Not the Marlon Brando of cats.

Bill and Joy: But he was a beautiful cat.

Bill: Very beautiful cat.

Bill and Joy: That's incredible that she could hold her breath for so long.

Bill and Joy: Because honestly, I thought I was like, maybe they got like a stand-in.

Evan: She wanted to do the stunt herself.

Bill and Joy: Because I'm not going to lie, she's sitting in that rocking chair.

Bill and Joy: I stared at that fucking bag looking for it to move.

Bill and Joy: I was like, is that a person in there? Is that a person in there?

Bill: I was like.

Evan: She was good at holding her She was also good at not blinking,

Evan: being able to just be still So those are all her shots That's creepy.

Bill and Joy: I love that You know what?

Evan: When she goes to horror conventions she brings the bag out when people don't

Evan: recognize her Oh my god It's a little bit over the top.

Bill and Joy: That's amazing It's better than the CGI shit we have to deal with now out.

Bill and Joy: The third Terrifier movie, all the gore was basically CGI. It was terrible.

Evan: You're saying, though, I have to watch the two, the new ones,

Evan: but in order? Do you have to watch them as?

Bill and Joy: I haven't seen the one from, what was it? 2019. 2006.

Evan: Oh, 2006.

Bill and Joy: No, I didn't watch the 2006 one. Interesting.

Bill and Joy: But watch this one and then watch the 2019 one. If I remember correctly,

Bill and Joy: you're going to really appreciate the 2019 one a lot.

Evan: I'm a sequel hater, so I'll.

Bill and Joy: It's not really a sequel. Well, it's a bow. It's a bow to the original.

Evan: Okay.

Bill and Joy: In a remake.

Bill: I downloaded the 2019 one, but I have not watched it.

Evan: That makes my job a lot easier.

Bill: I thought you were talking about the Terrifier first, and I was like...

Evan: No, no, no. I've seen all the Terrifiers, but...

Bill and Joy: Good for you, bud. Bless you.

Bill: Yeah, I watched the first one, and I was like, I hated everything about this.

Bill: I'm like, I'm never going to... I don't want to watch this. And I watched The

Bill: Sadness, and I was like, that's a good movie.

Bill: And I watched The Terrifier, and I watched The Terrifier, and I was like,

Bill: this is trash and i fucking hate this.

Bill and Joy: Because the gore adds to the story okay the story yeah.

Evan: Have you seen audition any of you.

Bill and Joy: No i'd recommend that no japanese horror movie really good any.

Evan: Last uh christmas uh thoughts for this christmas season.

Bill and Joy: What was the what was the house lady's name miss mack or whatever miss mack

Bill and Joy: miss mack yeah i i liked how she hid all her booze,

Bill and Joy: in very ingenious ways i had love for miss mack honestly i would love a movie

Bill and Joy: about miss mack's life how do you go from momville to like sorority mom here's.

Bill: The thing the way she hid the booze she hid it as if like she wasn't supposed

Bill: to have it and they were drinking like they had.

Bill and Joy: Booze in the house.

Bill: Maybe she's not supposed to do it.

Bill and Joy: You can assume that in order for her employment, right? She's supposed to be the model.

Bill: Did she think the girls were going to tell on her? Come on.

Evan: It's fair, but I think the idea is she's supposed to be the sober one, but she like...

Bill and Joy: They should see her as an adult figure who they respect and all that.

Bill and Joy: See, I couldn't figure it out either, so I immediately rewrote the headcanon for me.

Bill and Joy: It's fine that she drinks, but those are her own special stash bottles.

Bill and Joy: They're all the same bottles.

Bill: They are.

Bill and Joy: It's like she doesn't want to share that with the girl. I'm not a fan of Sherry,

Bill and Joy: but I kept making you want to try it. Like that specific Sherry.

Bill: Which is also, like, that to me is, like, wild. Just the idea of,

Bill: like, that's the side of an alcoholic.

Bill: Like, you're just drinking straight hard liquor straight from the bottle.

Bill: Like, not even, like, expensive bourbon. Just sherry.

Bill and Joy: Look, we've all been there, but...

Bill and Joy: There's been times.

Bill: Like that was wild to me. I'm like, she's just, she's just pulling bottles of

Bill: sugar from the toilet tank. That's fucking wild.

Bill and Joy: Oh, this string tied to it. So for easy retrieval, it's so beautiful.

Bill: Oh man.

Bill and Joy: I was taking notes.

Bill and Joy: Evan, what are your final thoughts for black?

Evan: I mean, I don't know if I have any, I mean, I guess I feel like everything I've

Evan: said, I mean, I think it's just a,

Evan: I've come to now not think of it as a slasher movie,

Evan: even though like in my head canon it is because it influenced

Evan: slasher movies so by definition it has to be one

Evan: but i guess you're right that it could just be thriller you

Evan: know psychological thriller more in

Evan: the vein of psycho than the things that came after especially given the fact

Evan: that it sort of it wasn't anything it was just a horror movie you know you could

Evan: just call whatever it is and i don't know this is like in my this is in my top

Evan: two or three if i want to broadly call like slasher movies if you're going to

Evan: call it one like this is in my top.

Bill and Joy: It's a good place for it.

Evan: Halloween and then my torso for me.

Bill: I can see that I think it's a you know it's an interesting movie it's a really

Bill: good movie you know from like a an analysis point of view.

Evan: Yeah.

Bill and Joy: This one was a lot easier than Friday the 13th was.

Evan: Yeah. I mean, it's a much better movie. I mean, it's not even.

Bill: But Bill Maher isn't in it.

Bill and Joy: All right. All right.

Evan: Bill Maher is canceled, although he's not actually canceled.

Bill: God, he should be. Why is he not canceled? Why is he still on TV?

Bill: Because cancel culture doesn't exist.

Bill: He's so bad.

Bill and Joy: I mean, so is Nick Cage. And look at him.

Bill: But Nick Cage isn't a bad person or obviously like an active like fed op.

Bill and Joy: Okay, that's fair. I thought we were talking purely on acting skills.

Evan: I love Nick Cage.

Bill: No, no.

Bill and Joy: Really?

Bill: I'm talking about as a human being.

Evan: I also like Nick Cage.

Bill and Joy: I had a friend. And they would defend Nick Cage because that,

Bill and Joy: I guess, old Nicky boy practices a very specific acting style.

Bill and Joy: And it's basically like, it's some Japanese acting style that is just supposed

Bill and Joy: to be over the top and insane. I'm like, that's good.

Bill and Joy: Maybe he could branch out a little bit.

Evan: You should watch Bad Lieutenant. It's a great movie.

Bill and Joy: Oh, God.

Bill: Well, see, the thing is.

Bill and Joy: Oh, I'll take your word for it.

Evan: Nick Cage.

Bill: The thing is that Nick Cage is either. Nick Cage can be either terrible.

Bill: Terrible, like, C-movie-level shit acting, or really good.

Bill and Joy: Con Air. Yeah. Do you think Las Vegas?

Bill: Yeah. He's either Adaptation Pig or Con Air.

Bill and Joy: You want to know something really messed up as I'm talking shit about Nick Cage?

Bill and Joy: Con Air is my favorite bad movie of all time. It's a fun bad movie.

Bill: It is.

Evan: I mean, I think in some ways, probably it's also like the roles he's taking.

Evan: I mean, he's taken just some bad roles, you know, like movies that just,

Evan: I don't know who, you know, it just is a shitty role.

Evan: Yeah, he's been in some badass bad movies. what's the one where he's like the

Evan: biker Knight Rider or whatever Ghost Rider that is fucking horrible he's.

Bill and Joy: The biker he was the best actor in.

Evan: That whole movie that's not saying a lot yeah.

Bill and Joy: We're just saying something Ghost Rider and that's because Eva Mendes was in it and I love her.

Evan: Yeah okay.

Bill: But she's not bringing acting chops generally that's not what she's bringing to the.

Evan: Screen well we'll have to we'll cover every we'll do it we'll do a series on

Evan: every nick cage movie we'll be here until uh the next millennium we'd.

Bill: Be fucking yeah seriously.

Bill and Joy: That is we just turned this into a nick cage.

Evan: You know what's funny is i was actually talking to someone that's torture i would do it.

Bill and Joy: A marx's nick's cage.

Evan: The problem the problem with doing i think we talked about like if you did like

Evan: an x-files podcast the problem with those kinds of shows is you just get so

Evan: sick of the thing you're doing after a long time even if it's interesting you

Evan: know it's like you're stuck on that forever we had a gareth edwards series but

Evan: there's only like six of them and you can do them slowly yeah.

Bill: Or you end up like the guy that does i hate bill maher which is he's just gonna go crazy.

Evan: Yeah yeah.

Bill and Joy: You gotta end up on a.

Evan: List yeah.

Bill: That's gonna go insane.

Evan: Yeah i don't know i i can't watch bill maher for more than 12 seconds i can't

Evan: believe he just watches him for his like his podcast my heart goes out to him.

Bill and Joy: It's like ward and his tiktok algorithm them.

Bill and Joy: Oh, my goodness. It gets stuck in a loop and just like the most random things.

Bill and Joy: I'll hear the same song play for like 30 minutes.

Bill and Joy: And it's all different TikToks, but it's the same song. Yeah, it's all that trend.

Bill: It's all that trend shit.

Evan: Oh, awesome. Well, Joy, thank you for joining us this.

Bill and Joy: Thank you for having me and letting me share my opinions. I have so many.

Evan: Anytime.

Bill and Joy: It was great having you.

Evan: And bill and ward that was.

Bill: A shout.

Bill and Joy: Out to it.

Bill: And ward ward uh how how do you and you you enjoy you just you're strangers

Bill: to each other correct absolute.

Bill and Joy: Strangers on the same microphone no we're married 11 years 10 years married 11 years together.

Bill: It just reminds me of our our you know our competition how did this get made

Bill: and how um uh june and paul every every episode open up oh and uh how are you

Bill: june i'm doing very well paul thank you as if they've never met before and don't know each other it's.

Bill and Joy: Beautiful i love that.

Evan: Amazing well uh you've all been listening to left injector with myself and bill

Evan: and ward and we'll catch you next time.

Bill: Also joy oh yeah joy have a good night everybody see you next time i'm.

Bill and Joy: Not important good night.