1 00:00:00,960 --> 00:00:04,210 Curtis: Yeah, I need another friend for my movie fix. 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:06,240 Yeah, I have to, I've done multiple 3 00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:07,730 Prasanna: You can have two friends but that's it. 4 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:08,750 Curtis: Okay. 5 00:00:08,810 --> 00:00:09,180 All right. 6 00:00:09,209 --> 00:00:09,699 There you go. 7 00:00:09,699 --> 00:00:11,939 And I have podcasts with both of them, so it's all good. 8 00:00:12,439 --> 00:00:15,229 Hi, and welcome to Backup Central's Restore it All podcast. 9 00:00:15,229 --> 00:00:15,739 I'm your host. 10 00:00:15,739 --> 00:00:15,959 W. 11 00:00:15,979 --> 00:00:17,779 Curtis Preston, AKA Mr. 12 00:00:17,779 --> 00:00:21,739 Backup and I have with me, my AirPods fitness consultants. 13 00:00:22,739 --> 00:00:24,809 Malia, Prasanna Malaiyandi 14 00:00:25,126 --> 00:00:29,146 Prasanna: yes, I am not sticking my fingers in your ears, just so people know. 15 00:00:29,896 --> 00:00:33,166 Curtis: but you said you could make sure that my AirPods fit properly. 16 00:00:34,181 --> 00:00:34,691 Prasanna: Yes. 17 00:00:34,721 --> 00:00:40,481 And apple provides you with a great tool in the iPhone to actually make sure 18 00:00:40,631 --> 00:00:42,231 because you got the new AirPods pro, 19 00:00:42,281 --> 00:00:45,723 Curtis: I suppose if I actually pulled the little ma the little manual 20 00:00:45,723 --> 00:00:47,493 out, it would probably tell me that 21 00:00:47,547 --> 00:00:47,937 Prasanna: Yup. 22 00:00:48,417 --> 00:00:51,657 And actually, when you first paired your AirPods pro with your 23 00:00:51,657 --> 00:00:54,227 phone, It should have asked you, do you want to run a fit test? 24 00:00:55,397 --> 00:01:01,367 Curtis: It may have, but I remember when I first paired it, I was in a 25 00:01:01,367 --> 00:01:02,897 hurry and I was on my way somewhere. 26 00:01:03,617 --> 00:01:04,007 Prasanna: Yeah, 27 00:01:04,367 --> 00:01:06,977 Curtis: So if it did ask me, I probably ignored it. 28 00:01:07,547 --> 00:01:11,480 But then I was mentioning to you about the the ear tips and 29 00:01:12,140 --> 00:01:13,370 that I went with a smaller one. 30 00:01:13,370 --> 00:01:15,050 And you were like, did you do the fit test? 31 00:01:15,050 --> 00:01:15,410 And I'm like 32 00:01:15,469 --> 00:01:15,659 Prasanna: Yeah. 33 00:01:15,659 --> 00:01:18,512 It's great though, because apple wants to make sure you get the 34 00:01:18,512 --> 00:01:19,862 best sound experience possible. 35 00:01:19,862 --> 00:01:22,823 So they play music, which is annoying music 36 00:01:23,253 --> 00:01:24,603 Curtis: Yeah, it is a little annoying. 37 00:01:24,923 --> 00:01:29,033 Prasanna: but they measure to see how much noise actually leaks into the 38 00:01:29,153 --> 00:01:32,873 microphones on the inside of the tips. 39 00:01:32,903 --> 00:01:35,393 So they can detect, is there too much noise leakage or not, 40 00:01:36,213 --> 00:01:36,603 Curtis: Yeah. 41 00:01:36,684 --> 00:01:37,124 Prasanna: Ingenious. 42 00:01:38,254 --> 00:01:39,304 Curtis: Yeah, it's kinda cool. 43 00:01:39,342 --> 00:01:40,006 I Yeah. 44 00:01:40,366 --> 00:01:42,717 So I think I have a small and delicate ears, 45 00:01:45,252 --> 00:01:46,872 Prasanna: TMI Curtis TMI, 46 00:01:47,047 --> 00:01:49,597 Curtis: so that's why I went with the smaller ear tips. 47 00:01:49,747 --> 00:01:53,167 I have this giant head, but small delicate ears. 48 00:01:53,220 --> 00:01:53,805 So 49 00:01:54,390 --> 00:01:57,480 Prasanna: all this power in this itty little, what is it? 50 00:01:58,110 --> 00:01:58,890 Aladdin? 51 00:01:59,725 --> 00:02:02,695 Curtis: infinite power and itty bitty living space. 52 00:02:03,445 --> 00:02:04,700 Yeah, exactly. 53 00:02:04,700 --> 00:02:05,280 Yes. 54 00:02:05,309 --> 00:02:10,259 Speaking of quotable movie lines, I just I've been watching movies 55 00:02:10,259 --> 00:02:12,329 that I've never seen before lately. 56 00:02:12,419 --> 00:02:18,248 And last night I watched the original name of it was everyone comes to Rick's 57 00:02:18,315 --> 00:02:20,865 Prasanna: I don't know what the actual. 58 00:02:21,230 --> 00:02:24,440 Curtis: Yeah, the original name of this, of the play that became a 59 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:28,850 movie was everyone comes to Rick's or everybody comes to Rick's. 60 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,180 You probably know it by its more common name. 61 00:02:32,780 --> 00:02:33,700 Casablanca 62 00:02:34,195 --> 00:02:34,885 Prasanna: ah. 63 00:02:35,790 --> 00:02:37,380 Curtis: Yeah, I never saw Casablanca. 64 00:02:37,410 --> 00:02:38,430 So I watched Casablanca 65 00:02:38,970 --> 00:02:39,480 last night. 66 00:02:39,685 --> 00:02:41,455 Prasanna: I'm surprised you've never seen it. 67 00:02:42,060 --> 00:02:43,230 Curtis: I dunno why I dunno. 68 00:02:43,410 --> 00:02:46,729 It just, here's looking at you kid and this is a beginning of a 69 00:02:46,729 --> 00:02:50,474 beautiful relationship and it's a lot of great and by the way, you 70 00:02:50,474 --> 00:02:52,424 know what line is not in Casablanca, 71 00:02:53,724 --> 00:02:54,104 Prasanna: What 72 00:02:54,994 --> 00:02:55,554 Curtis: play it again, Sam 73 00:02:55,554 --> 00:02:56,464 Prasanna: Say hello to my, 74 00:02:57,034 --> 00:02:57,234 Curtis: no. 75 00:02:57,579 --> 00:02:57,909 no. 76 00:02:58,149 --> 00:03:01,509 The line that everyone calls from Casa Blanca the, play it again. 77 00:03:01,509 --> 00:03:02,979 Sam is not in the movie. 78 00:03:03,519 --> 00:03:05,387 It's like the treasure of Sierra Madre. 79 00:03:05,387 --> 00:03:07,637 The, we don't need no stinking badges. 80 00:03:07,997 --> 00:03:10,607 That's actually not from the treasure of Sierra Madre. 81 00:03:10,637 --> 00:03:17,759 It's from the spoof of it, which is, I think it might be blazing saddles. 82 00:03:17,789 --> 00:03:18,419 I'm not sure, 83 00:03:19,469 --> 00:03:19,929 Prasanna: Was it? 84 00:03:19,941 --> 00:03:20,902 What's the guy's name? 85 00:03:21,562 --> 00:03:23,542 Not Rob Lowe said it wasn't Rob Lowe. 86 00:03:25,702 --> 00:03:27,262 Curtis: In what blazing saddles. 87 00:03:28,482 --> 00:03:31,332 Prasanna: No, I, because I've heard him say that in like other movies 88 00:03:32,202 --> 00:03:35,639 Curtis: Oh, maybe yeah, it's a line that people quote and misquote but 89 00:03:35,649 --> 00:03:40,209 the famous line is not the line that everyone says, just like he 90 00:03:40,209 --> 00:03:41,599 does not say play it again, Sam. 91 00:03:41,637 --> 00:03:42,519 He says play it. 92 00:03:42,669 --> 00:03:44,229 And he says, you played it for her. 93 00:03:44,229 --> 00:03:45,199 You can play it for me. 94 00:03:45,199 --> 00:03:46,532 It doesn't say play it again. 95 00:03:46,622 --> 00:03:46,862 But 96 00:03:46,952 --> 00:03:47,342 anyway, 97 00:03:48,847 --> 00:03:52,057 Prasanna: things you learn when you actually closely watch a movie. 98 00:03:52,637 --> 00:03:53,177 Curtis: Yeah. 99 00:03:53,237 --> 00:03:53,747 Yeah. 100 00:03:53,863 --> 00:03:58,123 Yeah, I've been on this watching older movies kick because of my other podcast 101 00:03:58,543 --> 00:04:02,905 with my good friend, Jeff Rocklin his podcast is called the things that 102 00:04:02,905 --> 00:04:04,735 entertain us feel free to look that up. 103 00:04:04,995 --> 00:04:07,641 And I'm going, having a fun, watching some, current movies as 104 00:04:07,641 --> 00:04:12,081 well as I watched citizen Kane for the first time on a big screen at 105 00:04:12,081 --> 00:04:17,854 the academy the academy, essentially the academy of motion pictures, museum. 106 00:04:18,274 --> 00:04:21,844 They have this beautiful theater and got to see citizen Kane for the first 107 00:04:21,844 --> 00:04:26,476 time on this big, giant screen, it was introduced by a guy from the academy 108 00:04:26,506 --> 00:04:29,056 and talked about the visual effects and stuff that was in the movie. 109 00:04:29,087 --> 00:04:30,077 Prasanna: That's pretty awesome. 110 00:04:30,707 --> 00:04:30,947 Yeah. 111 00:04:30,977 --> 00:04:34,487 Unfortunately I don't watch movies and so Curtis has to get his 112 00:04:35,927 --> 00:04:36,407 Curtis: Yeah. 113 00:04:36,437 --> 00:04:39,147 I need another friend for my movie fix. 114 00:04:39,218 --> 00:04:40,568 Yeah, I have to, I've have 115 00:04:40,678 --> 00:04:40,788 Prasanna: it's. 116 00:04:40,788 --> 00:04:41,028 Curtis: multiple 117 00:04:41,028 --> 00:04:42,658 Prasanna: It's OK, you can have two friends but that's it. 118 00:04:43,178 --> 00:04:43,658 Curtis: Okay. 119 00:04:43,748 --> 00:04:44,090 All right. 120 00:04:44,096 --> 00:04:44,606 There you go. 121 00:04:44,673 --> 00:04:46,943 And I have podcasts with both of them, so it's all good. 122 00:04:46,943 --> 00:04:50,987 Today I found myself on a Reddit thread. 123 00:04:51,054 --> 00:04:52,512 Prasanna: Why do you do this to yourself? 124 00:04:52,512 --> 00:04:52,902 Curtis? 125 00:04:52,902 --> 00:04:53,592 Why? 126 00:04:53,659 --> 00:04:57,226 Curtis: I was on a Reddit, as is. 127 00:04:58,381 --> 00:04:59,792 That's part of my shtick. 128 00:05:00,392 --> 00:05:04,112 And I found this Reddit thread and the title was how 129 00:05:04,112 --> 00:05:07,142 important is backing up O 365. 130 00:05:07,652 --> 00:05:12,362 And he says, I have MSPs always pushing for O 365 backup services. 131 00:05:12,392 --> 00:05:17,342 Like Druva how necessary is backing up a 365. 132 00:05:17,372 --> 00:05:20,732 Isn't the data geo redundant looking for opinions, thanks 133 00:05:21,182 --> 00:05:27,697 and there were a variety of it's a bit like it's a bit like posting, I think 134 00:05:27,761 --> 00:05:30,163 which is better Democrat or Republican. 135 00:05:30,163 --> 00:05:31,693 It's almost like a troll, right? 136 00:05:31,693 --> 00:05:34,483 Because you know that there's going to be people like me that are going 137 00:05:34,483 --> 00:05:36,385 to say, dude the cloud isn't magic. 138 00:05:36,925 --> 00:05:38,065 You need to back up your stuff. 139 00:05:38,125 --> 00:05:44,166 And then, these other guys who seem to be they are certainly less concerned about. 140 00:05:45,036 --> 00:05:46,416 What I would consider backup. 141 00:05:46,416 --> 00:05:50,406 And so they, there are groups that post the opposite and there are 142 00:05:50,406 --> 00:05:51,726 people that blog the opposite. 143 00:05:51,726 --> 00:05:55,326 So I thought we'd talk, I know we've covered this in the past, but I, 144 00:05:55,581 --> 00:05:59,471 Prasanna: In fact it was our fifth episode of why backup SaaS services, I think 145 00:05:59,486 --> 00:06:02,096 Curtis: let's see we've that was like a hundred and thousand episodes 146 00:06:02,096 --> 00:06:02,776 Prasanna: I know. 147 00:06:02,986 --> 00:06:07,483 Curtis: If it was our fifth episode, that was a hundred and twenty 148 00:06:07,483 --> 00:06:09,980 five, twenty nine episodes ago. 149 00:06:09,980 --> 00:06:10,316 Prasanna: So 150 00:06:10,316 --> 00:06:10,798 Curtis: There you go. 151 00:06:10,948 --> 00:06:11,518 There you go. 152 00:06:11,601 --> 00:06:15,668 And so I thought we talk about this and first off, I'll throw out 153 00:06:15,668 --> 00:06:18,818 our usual disclaimer, Prasanna and I work for different companies. 154 00:06:18,818 --> 00:06:20,258 He works for Zoom I worked for Druva. 155 00:06:20,528 --> 00:06:24,698 This is not a podcast of either company and the opinions that you hear are ours. 156 00:06:25,278 --> 00:06:26,238 Prasanna: actually Curtis's. 157 00:06:28,328 --> 00:06:29,948 Curtis: I don't let him have his own opinion. 158 00:06:30,015 --> 00:06:34,934 And then also rate this podcast at ratethispodcast.com/restore. 159 00:06:35,419 --> 00:06:39,316 And we're looking for guests and we're, we're start, we'll start having 160 00:06:39,316 --> 00:06:43,426 a guest again here this year, and we would love to have you on, we love 161 00:06:43,426 --> 00:06:48,946 to talk about backups, security, data protection, data, privacy barbecue, beer. 162 00:06:50,311 --> 00:06:54,181 And backups, barbecue, beer and backups the three BS. 163 00:06:54,255 --> 00:06:55,760 So yeah, so please join us. 164 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:59,025 Just message me @wcpreston on Twitter, you can DM me. 165 00:06:59,115 --> 00:07:00,705 I accept DMS from everybody. 166 00:07:01,125 --> 00:07:05,152 And also you can email me at wcurtispreston@ g-mail . What 167 00:07:05,152 --> 00:07:05,672 do you think about this? 168 00:07:05,672 --> 00:07:09,114 Now that you've been freed from your associate, you used to be associated 169 00:07:09,114 --> 00:07:10,464 with backup for a long time. 170 00:07:11,094 --> 00:07:13,914 And now now you're over there at this other company that 171 00:07:14,424 --> 00:07:15,564 has nothing to do with backup. 172 00:07:15,570 --> 00:07:18,330 Prasanna: A lot of people think that, yeah, it's running in the cloud. 173 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:19,410 Why do I need to back it up? 174 00:07:19,770 --> 00:07:21,480 And it's not even just corporate it's. 175 00:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,380 And not even specifically Microsoft 365, but look at people using 176 00:07:25,380 --> 00:07:27,000 Gmail for their personal email. 177 00:07:27,071 --> 00:07:30,359 How many people, I bet if you go around and ask like everyone, do 178 00:07:30,359 --> 00:07:33,169 you back up your mailbox, right? 179 00:07:33,169 --> 00:07:33,819 Your gmail 180 00:07:34,589 --> 00:07:34,949 Prasann: right. 181 00:07:34,964 --> 00:07:36,944 99% of people will be like, wait, what? 182 00:07:37,854 --> 00:07:38,034 Curtis: Yeah. 183 00:07:38,034 --> 00:07:40,194 I think it was where we were like 99.9, but 184 00:07:40,194 --> 00:07:40,494 yeah. 185 00:07:41,324 --> 00:07:45,164 Prasanna: And I think it's just one of those things where most people, like 186 00:07:45,164 --> 00:07:49,264 we've always said they believe it's a SaaS service backups happen automatically. 187 00:07:49,264 --> 00:07:50,644 They don't need to worry about it. 188 00:07:50,704 --> 00:07:53,804 They don't need to worry about like their laptop dying because it's in the cloud. 189 00:07:53,873 --> 00:07:57,155 They just bring a new device and it all works, but they don't realize that data 190 00:07:57,155 --> 00:07:59,075 is still sitting somewhere on something 191 00:07:59,151 --> 00:08:02,394 Curtis: And it's a bit annoying to me because I've been in 192 00:08:02,394 --> 00:08:03,684 the space for a long time. 193 00:08:03,774 --> 00:08:06,385 And throughout the years, there have been things that have. 194 00:08:07,850 --> 00:08:11,420 Purported as a replacement for backups, right? 195 00:08:11,450 --> 00:08:14,271 One of them was or that didn't need backups. 196 00:08:14,271 --> 00:08:17,808 One of them was raid, when raid came out, we didn't need backups. 197 00:08:18,318 --> 00:08:20,102 And then then there 198 00:08:20,102 --> 00:08:20,432 were 199 00:08:20,747 --> 00:08:22,068 Prasanna: and snap and replicate 200 00:08:22,087 --> 00:08:25,843 Curtis: Yeah but even like with snapshot, there were people that just had snapshots. 201 00:08:25,843 --> 00:08:28,963 I didn't even have the replication and they would say, oh, I don't need 202 00:08:28,963 --> 00:08:30,043 backups because they have snapshots. 203 00:08:30,093 --> 00:08:33,003 Dude, those are snapshots of the primary. 204 00:08:33,518 --> 00:08:34,838 Prasanna: Sitting on the primary. 205 00:08:35,043 --> 00:08:35,253 Curtis: Yeah. 206 00:08:35,253 --> 00:08:36,423 Sitting on the primary. 207 00:08:37,023 --> 00:08:39,187 And that's what I'm going to go for here. 208 00:08:39,807 --> 00:08:44,696 So first off I'm going to say the same thing that I often say just a flat-out. 209 00:08:44,730 --> 00:08:51,720 Emphatic statement that Microsoft and Google are not backing up your email. 210 00:08:52,710 --> 00:08:54,720 They're not backing up your SharePoint, et cetera. 211 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,570 Your OneDrive, if you don't know, OneDrive is essentially 212 00:08:57,570 --> 00:08:58,795 a an interface to SharePoint. 213 00:08:58,845 --> 00:09:01,515 And if you don't believe me, go look at your service contract, 214 00:09:01,515 --> 00:09:04,275 everything that they provide for you, everything that they have agreed to 215 00:09:04,275 --> 00:09:06,315 provide for you is in a contract. 216 00:09:07,035 --> 00:09:08,385 Go look at your contract. 217 00:09:08,385 --> 00:09:11,775 You will not find any words that sound like backup, restore, recovery, any 218 00:09:11,775 --> 00:09:13,365 of these things, they are not there. 219 00:09:13,872 --> 00:09:16,902 And if you look up something called the shared responsibility model, you will 220 00:09:16,902 --> 00:09:22,809 see that your responsibility that backups clearly fall under your responsibility. 221 00:09:22,809 --> 00:09:26,679 Their responsibility is availability of the platform, 222 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:28,179 not availability of your data. 223 00:09:28,209 --> 00:09:31,149 There's very different concept there, right? 224 00:09:31,149 --> 00:09:32,919 Availability of the platform. 225 00:09:33,394 --> 00:09:38,134 Prasanna: The same thing holds true for not just Microsoft 365 226 00:09:38,134 --> 00:09:39,784 and like Gmail, but even AWS. 227 00:09:40,769 --> 00:09:43,207 They have the same thing, with the shared responsibility model 228 00:09:43,207 --> 00:09:44,917 where they make sure that yes. 229 00:09:45,127 --> 00:09:47,917 Services available, but backups all the rest is yours. 230 00:09:47,947 --> 00:09:53,227 Unless you explicitly buy service like AWS backup or something else like that. 231 00:09:55,297 --> 00:10:00,005 Curtis: The difference between AWS and Microsoft ,though, is that's clearly 232 00:10:00,005 --> 00:10:03,935 spelled out in the documentation of every service that you look at. 233 00:10:03,935 --> 00:10:06,395 It will tell you what backups are included. 234 00:10:06,395 --> 00:10:10,175 what backups are not included where the backups are and what 235 00:10:10,175 --> 00:10:11,375 you can do to make them better. 236 00:10:11,825 --> 00:10:16,097 Whereas with Microsoft, they just don't talk about it, which is just really weird. 237 00:10:16,642 --> 00:10:19,492 Prasanna: I think they don't talk about it because they don't want 238 00:10:19,492 --> 00:10:23,092 people to really, they think people don't need to worry about it. 239 00:10:23,452 --> 00:10:28,192 Like I think AWS brings it up because they realize you need to worry about this. 240 00:10:28,462 --> 00:10:32,422 I think Microsoft thinks we don't need people to worry about this. 241 00:10:32,422 --> 00:10:35,173 Why do people have to worry about it's the cloud, everything 242 00:10:35,173 --> 00:10:36,733 should be available, but it's 243 00:10:36,772 --> 00:10:39,782 Curtis: I would say they don't want people to worry about it. 244 00:10:39,802 --> 00:10:41,572 Prasanna: But they don't give you a solution though, either. 245 00:10:42,187 --> 00:10:44,257 Curtis: They don't give you a solution to the problem. 246 00:10:44,537 --> 00:10:46,739 Again, proponents. 247 00:10:46,816 --> 00:10:50,716 Of the no backup philosophy would state that they do give 248 00:10:50,716 --> 00:10:53,326 you ways to protect your data. 249 00:10:53,347 --> 00:10:55,940 And the most common thing that is, is touted. 250 00:10:55,940 --> 00:10:58,340 So first off they talk about the availability of the platform. 251 00:10:58,340 --> 00:11:03,177 They talk about replications and and how that it's part of this availability group. 252 00:11:03,177 --> 00:11:04,286 And and that's all great. 253 00:11:04,286 --> 00:11:06,236 But again, that's all about availability. 254 00:11:06,566 --> 00:11:07,556 That's not about. 255 00:11:08,351 --> 00:11:09,191 Backups. 256 00:11:09,217 --> 00:11:09,967 And 257 00:11:09,967 --> 00:11:10,837 Prasanna: Backups and restores 258 00:11:10,878 --> 00:11:15,751 Curtis: But th they also tout things like retention policies, the most common 259 00:11:15,751 --> 00:11:22,693 thing that I see touted by people that want to th that say, you don't need to 260 00:11:22,693 --> 00:11:26,195 back up the data is retention policies. 261 00:11:26,195 --> 00:11:28,255 And the thing is, here's news. 262 00:11:28,435 --> 00:11:31,675 Most people don't know anything about retention policies, right? 263 00:11:31,675 --> 00:11:33,445 Most people don't even know that they exist. 264 00:11:33,755 --> 00:11:35,167 Including a lot of backup vendors. 265 00:11:35,367 --> 00:11:36,697 They don't know that they exist. 266 00:11:36,697 --> 00:11:38,197 And so they just talk about the recycle bin. 267 00:11:38,197 --> 00:11:41,297 They're like oh the recycle bin is only two weeks or whatever, and 268 00:11:41,317 --> 00:11:42,670 they go after the recycle bin and. 269 00:11:43,560 --> 00:11:47,332 Proponents of 365 will then say there are retention policies. 270 00:11:47,332 --> 00:11:50,632 And if you really want to store data, if you want to make sure that data 271 00:11:50,632 --> 00:11:55,492 doesn't get deleted, even if it's purged from the recycle bin, then you should 272 00:11:55,642 --> 00:11:57,322 create a retention policy for that. 273 00:11:57,832 --> 00:11:59,705 And and it would save it. 274 00:12:00,995 --> 00:12:05,615 My, my big thing though, with the retention policy idea is that all 275 00:12:05,615 --> 00:12:13,670 that's really doing is keeping the email or the file or the record in 365, 276 00:12:14,005 --> 00:12:15,695 Prasanna: It's almost like a soft delete, right? 277 00:12:15,695 --> 00:12:16,525 Curtis: It is a delete 278 00:12:16,525 --> 00:12:18,635 Prasanna: It's gone from the user's perspective. 279 00:12:18,785 --> 00:12:22,355 It's gone from the admin's perspective, but it's not yet 280 00:12:22,355 --> 00:12:24,065 gone from the system's persective 281 00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:24,910 Curtis: right? 282 00:12:24,950 --> 00:12:28,504 It's just basically, I've said this before 365. 283 00:12:29,234 --> 00:12:35,214 And G-Suite and Salesforce, all of these apps, they're all really just a big, fancy 284 00:12:35,214 --> 00:12:37,684 database with an interface in front of it. 285 00:12:37,715 --> 00:12:43,005 And it's not like you actually have a, it's not like for the Unix folks. 286 00:12:43,005 --> 00:12:47,325 It's not like you're your 365 email is in an inbox format. 287 00:12:48,015 --> 00:12:49,245 That's in a directory somewhere. 288 00:12:49,365 --> 00:12:50,235 It's in a database. 289 00:12:50,780 --> 00:12:54,290 And each email is represented by a record in that database. 290 00:12:54,290 --> 00:12:56,871 And when you delete the email, what happens is it 291 00:12:56,871 --> 00:12:58,761 sets a flag that says deleted. 292 00:12:59,541 --> 00:13:04,101 And if you that, and also if it's got a retention policy, it sets a 293 00:13:04,101 --> 00:13:06,201 flag that it's going to be retained. 294 00:13:06,441 --> 00:13:10,911 So even if it's deleted, it just looks like it's been deleted, but 295 00:13:10,911 --> 00:13:12,171 it's really just sitting there. 296 00:13:12,481 --> 00:13:15,444 And that, that is not a backup. 297 00:13:15,444 --> 00:13:16,044 And why is that? 298 00:13:16,044 --> 00:13:16,794 Not a backup. 299 00:13:17,054 --> 00:13:19,064 Prasanna: Because it lives within the same system. 300 00:13:19,064 --> 00:13:20,834 So it doesn't follow the 3, 2, 1 rule. 301 00:13:21,214 --> 00:13:21,754 Curtis: Yes, 302 00:13:22,334 --> 00:13:23,244 Prasanna: See, I got it this time. 303 00:13:23,319 --> 00:13:26,399 Curtis: And by the way, I just want to, I just want to say something and I'm 304 00:13:26,399 --> 00:13:31,891 gonna, I'm going to try not to return in kind, but there was this article 305 00:13:32,161 --> 00:13:38,641 from practical365.com and right off, they started out with an ad hominem 306 00:13:38,641 --> 00:13:40,571 attack in the beginning of the article. 307 00:13:40,981 --> 00:13:41,301 Right. 308 00:13:41,340 --> 00:13:47,076 Basically saying that people, vendors like Druva that are 309 00:13:47,076 --> 00:13:48,786 stating that you need to back up... 310 00:13:48,851 --> 00:13:49,361 Oh, here we go. 311 00:13:49,601 --> 00:13:53,321 So when you research it, though, you'll find lots of content telling you that 312 00:13:53,321 --> 00:13:57,231 you do need to, but more often than not, the content is sponsored, paid or 313 00:13:57,251 --> 00:13:59,381 authored by a company selling a 365. 314 00:13:59,381 --> 00:14:01,676 backup or continuity solution. 315 00:14:02,006 --> 00:14:04,496 Some are written with the express aim of convincing the reader 316 00:14:04,496 --> 00:14:05,696 that backups are essential. 317 00:14:05,696 --> 00:14:08,756 I would say they all are because they are anyway. 318 00:14:08,786 --> 00:14:12,747 But the idea that's literally paragraph two basically, oh anybody 319 00:14:12,747 --> 00:14:15,717 who says you need to backup 365, it's just because they sell it. 320 00:14:15,763 --> 00:14:20,007 And yeah, I work for Druva, but I've always felt like 321 00:14:20,007 --> 00:14:20,427 you need 322 00:14:20,457 --> 00:14:21,087 Prasanna: you should back up. 323 00:14:21,087 --> 00:14:21,597 your day. 324 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:23,680 Curtis: I've only worked for Druva for four years. 325 00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:26,260 I've always felt you need to back up SaaS resources. 326 00:14:27,020 --> 00:14:29,511 Prasanna: And an example would be look at Salesforce. 327 00:14:29,511 --> 00:14:31,821 They brought back in a backup solution. 328 00:14:32,541 --> 00:14:33,051 Curtis: They did 329 00:14:33,051 --> 00:14:36,416 Prasanna: In-house that they had gotten rid of, but they decided that 330 00:14:36,926 --> 00:14:38,216 they're going to continue building out. 331 00:14:38,216 --> 00:14:41,576 And the only reason that they would do that is because their customers are 332 00:14:41,576 --> 00:14:43,646 probably asking them, we need something. 333 00:14:43,731 --> 00:14:47,721 Curtis: So if I look at this article, the first thing that he 334 00:14:47,721 --> 00:14:49,581 goes after is retention policies. 335 00:14:49,651 --> 00:14:53,155 And it says retention policies are not backups by themselves, 336 00:14:53,155 --> 00:14:54,335 but they're part of the picture. 337 00:14:54,335 --> 00:14:55,445 Prasanna: Which I wouldn't disagree with. 338 00:14:55,515 --> 00:14:55,858 Just like 339 00:14:55,893 --> 00:14:58,622 Curtis: right, I don't have any problem with it, but yeah, go ahead. 340 00:14:59,037 --> 00:14:59,217 Prasanna: Yeah. 341 00:14:59,247 --> 00:15:01,947 Just like we talked about with storage arrays, Right, Snapshots are part of 342 00:15:01,947 --> 00:15:03,927 your overall data protection strategy. 343 00:15:04,497 --> 00:15:06,747 It's not just the only thing that you use. 344 00:15:06,814 --> 00:15:08,254 Curtis: Steve Goodman is the author. 345 00:15:08,584 --> 00:15:10,654 He talked about that. 346 00:15:11,074 --> 00:15:14,325 It's not backups, but it says, it just ensures that data 347 00:15:14,325 --> 00:15:15,675 isn't removed from the service. 348 00:15:16,365 --> 00:15:22,395 And he then alludes to the fact that people of my ilk will suggest well, 349 00:15:22,635 --> 00:15:28,960 the problem with that is that an admin, a malicious actor could go in 350 00:15:29,020 --> 00:15:33,987 and change your retention policy and thus delete everything . You could 351 00:15:33,987 --> 00:15:37,887 create a retention policy of zero, move everybody into that retention policy 352 00:15:37,887 --> 00:15:39,597 and suddenly all their email is deleted. 353 00:15:39,987 --> 00:15:41,529 And you know how we know that's possible. 354 00:15:42,269 --> 00:15:43,259 Prasanna: Because it happens. 355 00:15:43,779 --> 00:15:46,966 Curtis: Because it happened there is a giant story 356 00:15:47,196 --> 00:15:48,936 Prasanna: Oh, I remember we did this. 357 00:15:49,336 --> 00:15:50,626 Curtis: Yeah, that was the story. 358 00:15:50,640 --> 00:15:51,810 August, 2020. 359 00:15:52,610 --> 00:15:53,690 It was KPMG. 360 00:15:53,690 --> 00:15:55,333 They created a policy. 361 00:15:55,333 --> 00:15:56,353 It was an accident. 362 00:15:57,128 --> 00:15:59,708 But that's what backups are for, right? 363 00:16:00,338 --> 00:16:02,108 Is they created a retention. 364 00:16:02,138 --> 00:16:05,138 They needed to delete one particular person's data. 365 00:16:05,528 --> 00:16:08,888 So they created a, but they already had a retention policy that said that data 366 00:16:08,888 --> 00:16:10,778 is retained for 90 days or whatever. 367 00:16:11,198 --> 00:16:15,008 And so they create a retention policy that says zero, and then they were supposed to 368 00:16:15,008 --> 00:16:16,868 move that user into that retention policy. 369 00:16:16,868 --> 00:16:20,554 And instead they moved everybody into the retention policy and thus 370 00:16:20,554 --> 00:16:23,674 deleted 145,000 users personal chats. 371 00:16:24,764 --> 00:16:31,316 While I will just say that a lot of backup providers don't backup personal chats, 372 00:16:31,345 --> 00:16:35,345 and the reason for that is that Microsoft does not provide an API to get that data. 373 00:16:36,695 --> 00:16:42,620 The, and this does prove the point that retention policies are not perfect. 374 00:16:43,104 --> 00:16:45,992 Prasanna: And they would, of course tout preservation lock. 375 00:16:46,022 --> 00:16:51,055 If you turn on preservation lock, even if a bad actor goes in and shortens 376 00:16:51,055 --> 00:16:54,325 all your retention down to zero that will only apply to data for the future. 377 00:16:54,353 --> 00:16:55,537 Not data from the past. 378 00:16:55,604 --> 00:16:58,244 The only problem with that is people that have turned on 379 00:16:58,244 --> 00:17:01,604 preservation lock, then suddenly find out how much data it takes up. 380 00:17:02,564 --> 00:17:04,184 And then they're like, holy cow. 381 00:17:04,244 --> 00:17:04,664 And, 382 00:17:04,714 --> 00:17:05,459 they can't do anything 383 00:17:05,989 --> 00:17:07,564 Curtis: end up and they can, but they can't fix it. 384 00:17:07,564 --> 00:17:09,949 Prasanna: Yeah, and this reminds me on storage arrays. 385 00:17:10,072 --> 00:17:13,882 Most storage arrays offer two types of retention lock, one called 386 00:17:13,882 --> 00:17:15,292 compliance, and one called governance. 387 00:17:15,502 --> 00:17:18,202 Compliance is the one that you set and you can never unset it. 388 00:17:18,231 --> 00:17:19,371 Like the preservation mode. 389 00:17:20,071 --> 00:17:21,696 And a lot of people would start off with that. 390 00:17:21,696 --> 00:17:24,606 And then they would realize, oh man, this is eating up a 391 00:17:24,606 --> 00:17:26,515 lot more space than I expected. 392 00:17:27,085 --> 00:17:30,895 And there's nothing they could do because it's set that way. 393 00:17:30,895 --> 00:17:33,865 And so you either end up creating a different volume and start using that 394 00:17:33,865 --> 00:17:37,541 other volume with a different mode on it in order to keep the data for as long 395 00:17:37,541 --> 00:17:39,143 as you need, because everyone's Yeah. 396 00:17:39,143 --> 00:17:40,103 I want to keep the data forever. 397 00:17:40,103 --> 00:17:43,283 And then you start looking at your bill and how much data it's consuming. 398 00:17:43,283 --> 00:17:44,813 And you're like, I did not expect that. 399 00:17:45,963 --> 00:17:46,203 Curtis: Yeah. 400 00:17:46,203 --> 00:17:51,664 And so I think that again, there's nothing wrong with a retention 401 00:17:51,664 --> 00:17:55,384 policy, but it isn't backup because it doesn't copy the data anywhere else. 402 00:17:55,624 --> 00:18:00,124 And anything, if anything, catastrophic happens to your configuration? 403 00:18:00,124 --> 00:18:00,184 Yeah. 404 00:18:00,894 --> 00:18:04,194 It is that data's gone right now. 405 00:18:04,284 --> 00:18:05,934 People say, has this never happened? 406 00:18:06,084 --> 00:18:07,074 I don't know. 407 00:18:07,126 --> 00:18:07,918 But here's the thing. 408 00:18:08,398 --> 00:18:09,628 The cloud isn't magic. 409 00:18:09,628 --> 00:18:10,888 Microsoft isn't magic. 410 00:18:10,888 --> 00:18:11,518 Could it happen? 411 00:18:11,518 --> 00:18:12,328 Yes, it could. 412 00:18:12,332 --> 00:18:17,162 And by the way, I want to throw out something that, that some commenters 413 00:18:17,162 --> 00:18:21,012 on the thread have brought up like, has anything like this ever happen to you. 414 00:18:21,372 --> 00:18:25,682 So I've had Microsoft 365 for 10 years, and I've never had a problem. 415 00:18:25,992 --> 00:18:28,275 You know what, I've been in the industry for 30 years, I've never 416 00:18:28,275 --> 00:18:30,045 had to do a disaster recovery either. 417 00:18:30,975 --> 00:18:32,965 That doesn't mean I'm not going to have a DR plan. 418 00:18:33,365 --> 00:18:33,770 Prasanna: Yeah 419 00:18:33,770 --> 00:18:34,460 Curtis: I'm prepared. 420 00:18:34,511 --> 00:18:36,434 So the second section here he 421 00:18:36,514 --> 00:18:37,654 Prasanna: The part before you move on, 422 00:18:37,784 --> 00:18:38,024 Curtis: oh yeah. 423 00:18:38,964 --> 00:18:41,674 Prasanna: you brought up a point about the 3, 2, 1 rule, 424 00:18:41,674 --> 00:18:43,654 how keeping all the data local, 425 00:18:44,169 --> 00:18:44,499 Curtis: Yeah, 426 00:18:45,574 --> 00:18:48,364 Prasanna: means that it doesn't meet the requirement, but I believe 427 00:18:48,364 --> 00:18:51,544 some people would also say, yeah, but Microsoft 365 allows you to 428 00:18:51,544 --> 00:18:54,994 replicate the data to other geos. 429 00:18:55,050 --> 00:18:58,290 Curtis: I can't speak to the geo replication capabilities of 430 00:18:58,290 --> 00:19:03,750 Microsoft 365, but I will just say replication is not backup right. 431 00:19:04,020 --> 00:19:09,277 For the same reason that, so yes, you can replicate, but replication is. 432 00:19:10,072 --> 00:19:10,852 Similar. 433 00:19:11,602 --> 00:19:16,882 It has other holes that when corruption happens in one place, it can automatically 434 00:19:16,882 --> 00:19:19,102 replicate the corruption to other places. 435 00:19:19,128 --> 00:19:22,455 This is why we came out with concepts like continuous data protection 436 00:19:22,455 --> 00:19:26,699 in the backup world because replication by itself is not helpful. 437 00:19:26,749 --> 00:19:30,019 It doesn't appear that they offer this as a service as an 438 00:19:30,019 --> 00:19:31,489 additional service, but that. 439 00:19:31,570 --> 00:19:35,500 There is a database availability group for exchange and that there are other 440 00:19:35,500 --> 00:19:40,300 lagged copies, but I will just say this, I have specifically, and you can call me on 441 00:19:40,300 --> 00:19:41,830 this and you can tell me I'm full of it. 442 00:19:42,010 --> 00:19:46,259 But I have specifically as a customer of Microsoft, 365, druva 443 00:19:46,289 --> 00:19:48,209 is a customer of Microsoft 365. 444 00:19:48,539 --> 00:19:55,799 I have specifically asked them, can I use a lagged copy of Microsoft 365 445 00:19:55,859 --> 00:19:59,549 exchange online to restore my service. 446 00:20:00,339 --> 00:20:02,139 And the answer was an unequivocal. 447 00:20:02,199 --> 00:20:02,739 No. 448 00:20:03,684 --> 00:20:06,144 Prasanna: because like you said, it's intended for the service 449 00:20:06,144 --> 00:20:09,711 availability, not for users to be able to restore the backup. 450 00:20:09,740 --> 00:20:13,250 Curtis: So while this author of this article is talking about these lagged 451 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,618 copies again, that's the other thing that that folks that are proponents and 452 00:20:16,618 --> 00:20:21,208 that understand 365, they often bring up lagged copies, show me documentation that 453 00:20:21,208 --> 00:20:25,318 says that I'm allowed to use a lagged copy to restore my database and I'll back off. 454 00:20:25,648 --> 00:20:30,308 Because I have documentation directly from Microsoft that 455 00:20:30,308 --> 00:20:32,288 says that I cannot use that copy. 456 00:20:32,318 --> 00:20:32,828 So 457 00:20:32,923 --> 00:20:35,763 Prasanna: I remember you called into support and actually talked to someone 458 00:20:36,173 --> 00:20:36,788 Curtis: yeah, I did. 459 00:20:36,938 --> 00:20:37,268 Yeah. 460 00:20:37,382 --> 00:20:41,702 Anyway, so the next section that he has here is it recovery inside the 461 00:20:41,702 --> 00:20:43,782 service as possible, but requires skill? 462 00:20:43,790 --> 00:20:48,100 The first sentence is that "the weakness in 365 is how complex it is 463 00:20:48,100 --> 00:20:49,960 to understand how to recover data." 464 00:20:50,320 --> 00:20:50,930 Prasanna: Why? 465 00:20:52,660 --> 00:20:55,330 Curtis: To which I just want to hang my head 466 00:20:55,395 --> 00:20:55,605 Prasanna: yeah. 467 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,650 Curtis: restore should not be difficult. 468 00:20:59,825 --> 00:21:00,195 Prasanna: Yeah. 469 00:21:00,195 --> 00:21:03,075 Curtis: This is something brought up by the other person 470 00:21:03,075 --> 00:21:05,085 that we've often tangled with. 471 00:21:06,435 --> 00:21:11,385 When you're having your worst day, the last thing you want is 472 00:21:11,385 --> 00:21:13,185 a complicated restore process. 473 00:21:14,009 --> 00:21:15,839 Prasanna: It's like the conversation we had last week 474 00:21:15,839 --> 00:21:17,639 about you restoring backup central, 475 00:21:18,374 --> 00:21:18,914 Curtis: Yes. 476 00:21:18,964 --> 00:21:21,614 It was a little more complicated than I thought it was going to be, but it 477 00:21:21,614 --> 00:21:24,254 worked out and I went to the people, I went to the people to help me out. 478 00:21:24,794 --> 00:21:28,454 They're saying administrators can use things like the search mailbox to 479 00:21:28,454 --> 00:21:30,214 recover data or use the e-discovery. 480 00:21:30,434 --> 00:21:33,134 By the way, I have tried to use the e-discovery 481 00:21:34,184 --> 00:21:36,404 functionality in 365 to restore. 482 00:21:36,475 --> 00:21:36,985 Data. 483 00:21:37,195 --> 00:21:40,045 And I'll just say this, it like a lot of other tools. 484 00:21:40,105 --> 00:21:42,025 It is definitely not a backup tool. 485 00:21:42,505 --> 00:21:45,215 E-discovery is, you know what that tool is made for Prasanna. 486 00:21:45,235 --> 00:21:46,465 I'm going to give you one guess. 487 00:21:47,095 --> 00:21:47,915 Prasanna: E-discovery? 488 00:21:48,365 --> 00:21:48,785 Curtis: Yeah. 489 00:21:49,895 --> 00:21:52,565 So it turns out it's really good at e-discovery and not 490 00:21:52,565 --> 00:21:54,155 so good at restoring stuff. 491 00:21:54,239 --> 00:21:57,299 First off, I found the e-discovery tool, clunky. 492 00:21:57,599 --> 00:21:59,618 I found creating the case was clunky. 493 00:22:00,038 --> 00:22:02,858 Getting the data from that case was clunky. 494 00:22:03,098 --> 00:22:07,712 Getting the data back into, a mailbox is also clunky 495 00:22:07,842 --> 00:22:09,352 Prasanna: Because It's not intended to be used that wau 496 00:22:09,352 --> 00:22:11,355 Curtis: It's not intended to be used that way. 497 00:22:11,355 --> 00:22:14,055 Also it doesn't include the concept of folders. 498 00:22:14,685 --> 00:22:17,435 It also doesn't understand the concept of point in time. 499 00:22:17,825 --> 00:22:20,045 Prasanna: It's a little bit like when you have our archive 500 00:22:20,045 --> 00:22:21,335 versus backup discussions, 501 00:22:21,935 --> 00:22:22,625 Curtis: yes, it is. 502 00:22:22,625 --> 00:22:23,135 Exactly. 503 00:22:23,135 --> 00:22:24,275 E-discovery is an archive 504 00:22:24,695 --> 00:22:24,995 Prasanna: Yeah. 505 00:22:25,985 --> 00:22:29,165 They're very different use cases and therefore they have different semantics. 506 00:22:29,165 --> 00:22:33,845 And when you try to make archive be used for restore or backup use for archive, 507 00:22:34,295 --> 00:22:36,515 the world's collide and bad things happen. 508 00:22:36,785 --> 00:22:37,145 Curtis: Yeah. 509 00:22:37,245 --> 00:22:42,465 When I hear someone suggesting that you can use e-discovery to restore a mailbox, 510 00:22:42,525 --> 00:22:44,625 I would like to see them do that on video. 511 00:22:44,655 --> 00:22:45,705 I really would. 512 00:22:45,784 --> 00:22:47,554 Prasanna: Maybe for one email it's not bad. 513 00:22:48,109 --> 00:22:52,355 Curtis: Yeah, for exactly, for one email, it's not bad but for a bunch of users 514 00:22:52,355 --> 00:22:57,335 who have had their email obliterated or OneDrive obliterated, and you're pointing 515 00:22:57,335 --> 00:23:00,652 them at e-discovery or that the admin has to go to e-discovery it doesn't 516 00:23:00,652 --> 00:23:02,272 understand the concept of point in time. 517 00:23:02,272 --> 00:23:06,022 In other words, you can't put your mailbox or OneDrive back to 518 00:23:06,022 --> 00:23:07,462 the way it looked two days ago. 519 00:23:07,462 --> 00:23:10,042 It just, it doesn't understand that concept. 520 00:23:10,252 --> 00:23:12,622 What it understands is give me all. 521 00:23:13,457 --> 00:23:19,557 Files or all of the emails that went to Curtis all of them in this timeframe. 522 00:23:19,557 --> 00:23:22,154 Which is not the same thing as give me all the emails that were 523 00:23:22,154 --> 00:23:27,131 in Curtis's email box yesterday, it doesn't understand that concept. 524 00:23:27,139 --> 00:23:30,289 And then the last recommendation was PowerShell commandlets too, 525 00:23:30,289 --> 00:23:32,929 which I just want to hang my head. 526 00:23:33,026 --> 00:23:35,216 Again, it should be easy. 527 00:23:35,266 --> 00:23:40,699 And if the data has been purged and it's only held in a retention policy, it's 528 00:23:40,699 --> 00:23:44,449 going to be complicated and the only way to get it is the e-discovery interface. 529 00:23:45,019 --> 00:23:46,249 And I found that clunky. 530 00:23:46,366 --> 00:23:47,896 Prasanna: Your last line of defense. 531 00:23:48,296 --> 00:23:50,014 But it shouldn't be your first option. 532 00:23:50,874 --> 00:23:51,414 Curtis: Yeah. 533 00:23:51,464 --> 00:23:54,674 I live in this crazy world where people do dumb stuff all the time, 534 00:23:55,124 --> 00:23:59,024 and then they need a way out of it and that way should be simple. 535 00:23:59,024 --> 00:24:01,924 And the thing is the way we back up 365. 536 00:24:02,454 --> 00:24:05,004 We would restore right back to where it came from. 537 00:24:05,214 --> 00:24:08,689 We would restore the folder structure that it came from and, et cetera, 538 00:24:08,689 --> 00:24:11,989 et cetera, et cetera, it would just, it'd just be restore Curtis 539 00:24:11,989 --> 00:24:13,219 to the way he looked yesterday. 540 00:24:13,249 --> 00:24:16,799 That's what backups are for, if you don't think that matters. 541 00:24:16,859 --> 00:24:18,981 I don't know what to tell you. 542 00:24:18,981 --> 00:24:20,524 We're probably not going to share drinks. 543 00:24:20,839 --> 00:24:24,859 Prasanna: well, and if I'm the Microsoft 365 admin and I got this request 544 00:24:24,859 --> 00:24:28,369 and it's I've never really used the e-discovery tool or whatever other tool. 545 00:24:28,369 --> 00:24:31,121 And now I'm trying to figure it out as I have a CEO breathing 546 00:24:31,121 --> 00:24:34,001 down my neck or someone very important or whatever else it is. 547 00:24:34,470 --> 00:24:35,910 If I've never done this operation. 548 00:24:36,825 --> 00:24:40,035 Or it's not dead simple, then there's probably going to be a mistake being done. 549 00:24:40,035 --> 00:24:41,355 And someone's going to be very unhappy. 550 00:24:41,448 --> 00:24:46,133 Curtis: And then there's the final and this one, again, it's a very 551 00:24:46,133 --> 00:24:51,833 common thing that people bring up on that side of the discussion. 552 00:24:51,833 --> 00:24:56,429 And that is this final heading is Microsoft 365 backup products have 553 00:24:56,429 --> 00:24:59,879 key gaps that limit the security and productivity of your organization. 554 00:25:00,779 --> 00:25:05,549 So the point being made here is because Microsoft doesn't provide 555 00:25:05,849 --> 00:25:10,919 Druva and other companies like Druva APIs to get all of the data. 556 00:25:11,519 --> 00:25:17,909 Therefore our backups are invalid I just want to, again, throw my hands in the air. 557 00:25:18,239 --> 00:25:22,829 We acknowledge that and we plead with Microsoft to stop offering 558 00:25:22,829 --> 00:25:25,391 new services without backup KPIs. 559 00:25:25,450 --> 00:25:25,750 But. 560 00:25:26,725 --> 00:25:32,365 Because we can't protect something like Yammer, for example, doesn't 561 00:25:32,365 --> 00:25:33,955 mean we can't protect exchange 562 00:25:34,065 --> 00:25:34,815 Prasanna: The rest of this stuff. 563 00:25:34,855 --> 00:25:35,305 Yeah. 564 00:25:35,306 --> 00:25:40,424 Curtis: And they also list teams and we do a pretty good job with teams. 565 00:25:40,424 --> 00:25:46,573 I know at Druva we do some things that a lot of other companies don't, and, 566 00:25:46,723 --> 00:25:49,663 but we are limited by the API APIs 567 00:25:49,733 --> 00:25:50,963 Prasanna: what functionality it allows you. 568 00:25:52,038 --> 00:25:55,952 Curtis: Yeah, and they list some stuff like sensitivity labels, AIP, or MIP 569 00:25:56,462 --> 00:25:59,592 functionality and to ask about how they backup and restore that data. 570 00:25:59,592 --> 00:26:03,702 And I don't disagree with any of that, but I don't understand how, 571 00:26:04,122 --> 00:26:05,862 because we can't get everything. 572 00:26:05,862 --> 00:26:07,722 We shouldn't get what we can. 573 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:12,481 And I, as a customer of Microsoft would say to them, Hey, why don't make 574 00:26:12,891 --> 00:26:13,201 Prasanna: Yeah. 575 00:26:13,220 --> 00:26:18,290 And I think the other thing is, as a backup vendor, you need to be open about, 576 00:26:18,290 --> 00:26:20,550 Hey, here are all the things we can't do. 577 00:26:20,550 --> 00:26:22,740 Rather than just saying yeah, we back up everything. 578 00:26:22,950 --> 00:26:23,520 It's good to go. 579 00:26:23,548 --> 00:26:23,998 Curtis: Good point. 580 00:26:23,998 --> 00:26:24,298 Yeah. 581 00:26:24,488 --> 00:26:26,308 Prasanna: I think Druva, at least last I looked right. 582 00:26:26,328 --> 00:26:29,978 Was very upfront about here are the Microsoft 365 services we can back up 583 00:26:30,248 --> 00:26:32,618 here are the things that we can't support. 584 00:26:32,935 --> 00:26:35,585 And like you mentioned, it's typically because APIs don't exist. 585 00:26:35,617 --> 00:26:39,348 Curtis: The irony of this particular issue is they're saying that the 586 00:26:39,348 --> 00:26:41,958 reason why our backups aren't valid because we can't get everything. 587 00:26:41,965 --> 00:26:42,544 Guess what? 588 00:26:42,934 --> 00:26:44,254 Their backups don't get everything. 589 00:26:44,254 --> 00:26:46,924 And again, I just called what I just called, what they do, backups, 590 00:26:46,924 --> 00:26:47,894 what they do, aren't backups. 591 00:26:47,894 --> 00:26:50,618 But their Protection mechanisms. 592 00:26:50,643 --> 00:26:51,543 Don't get everything. 593 00:26:51,543 --> 00:26:54,423 There are a handful of things, just like there are handful 594 00:26:54,423 --> 00:26:55,563 of things that we can't get. 595 00:26:55,803 --> 00:27:01,383 There are a handful of things that a person who only has 365 tools cannot 596 00:27:01,383 --> 00:27:03,333 recover off the top of my head. 597 00:27:03,333 --> 00:27:04,263 I don't have them. 598 00:27:04,263 --> 00:27:08,709 Vanessa at Druva I know is, is a 365 expert. 599 00:27:08,739 --> 00:27:09,489 I'm not one. 600 00:27:09,546 --> 00:27:14,602 And we have talked about some things that, again they're not as common as 601 00:27:14,602 --> 00:27:18,706 some of the other things, just like Yammer is not that common among the, and 602 00:27:18,706 --> 00:27:21,830 if you're listening to this use Yammer, I'm not saying nobody's using Yammer. 603 00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:24,740 I'm just saying it's certainly not as common as say exchange online. 604 00:27:24,789 --> 00:27:29,889 Teams has become a lot more common in the last couple of years due to COVID. 605 00:27:30,082 --> 00:27:35,585 And due to them, adding some functionality to answer slack, right? 606 00:27:36,095 --> 00:27:36,455 Prasanna: And 607 00:27:36,575 --> 00:27:39,755 Curtis: I've used teams and I've used slack and I'll take slack any day, but 608 00:27:40,205 --> 00:27:43,350 Prasanna: I was just going to also mention that you brought up Vanessa. 609 00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:47,193 So we did actually record a couple episodes with her episodes, 85 610 00:27:47,193 --> 00:27:51,273 and 86, where she did talk about the architecture of Microsoft 365, 611 00:27:51,303 --> 00:27:54,903 that needs to be backed up and why you need to back up Microsoft 365. 612 00:27:54,953 --> 00:27:55,083 Curtis: Yep. 613 00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:58,740 We should point people to those episodes because I'm pretty sure 614 00:27:58,740 --> 00:28:00,390 she went into some of those things. 615 00:28:00,625 --> 00:28:04,195 Prasanna: I learned a lot from that discussion as well about Microsoft 365. 616 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:06,720 Curtis: When I look at, so there was a part one and a part two. 617 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:10,110 When I look at the second part, he talks about prevention is better than cure. 618 00:28:10,260 --> 00:28:11,160 I don't disagree. 619 00:28:11,640 --> 00:28:17,307 I would not tell a customer not to use retention policies . But I will say this, 620 00:28:18,327 --> 00:28:23,619 if e-discovery is a regular part of your workflow, I will put our e-discovery 621 00:28:23,619 --> 00:28:28,149 capability up against the built-in e-discovery tool any day of the week. 622 00:28:28,719 --> 00:28:33,609 And if you're paying extra, the ones that I really don't understand are guys 623 00:28:33,609 --> 00:28:39,879 that are customers that are paying extra to get E5, and that mainly what they 624 00:28:39,879 --> 00:28:41,799 need is to e-discovery functionality. 625 00:28:42,519 --> 00:28:45,229 We cost way less than the cost difference. 626 00:28:45,249 --> 00:28:47,439 The cost differential is $15 a user 627 00:28:48,414 --> 00:28:50,444 Prasanna: Do you want to mention what E5 is just for 628 00:28:50,673 --> 00:28:51,233 Curtis: I, yeah. 629 00:28:51,233 --> 00:28:57,124 E5 is a Microsoft licensing level, so it's E1, E3, E5, right, and the 630 00:28:57,124 --> 00:29:02,014 biggest difference between E3 and E5 is the e-discovery capability. 631 00:29:02,072 --> 00:29:06,167 And also the eh things like looking for ransomware 632 00:29:06,167 --> 00:29:07,595 notification and things like that. 633 00:29:07,615 --> 00:29:09,745 And we offer the same functionality. 634 00:29:09,811 --> 00:29:11,224 And, but, and again, I would say. 635 00:29:12,069 --> 00:29:15,309 I would put our e-discovery functionality up against theirs any day of the week 636 00:29:15,454 --> 00:29:18,724 Prasanna: so you get both backup and e-discovery for less than the price 637 00:29:18,729 --> 00:29:21,620 Curtis: and actual backup not fake backup. 638 00:29:21,657 --> 00:29:22,147 I don't know. 639 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:23,980 Prasanna: It's a little bit like a religious war, 640 00:29:24,026 --> 00:29:25,886 Curtis: It really is a religious war. 641 00:29:26,246 --> 00:29:30,990 I will say that, that I don't understand why. 642 00:29:31,795 --> 00:29:35,365 The cloud makes this any less of an issue. 643 00:29:35,365 --> 00:29:36,315 Prasanna: Magical!. 644 00:29:38,435 --> 00:29:43,135 Curtis: I don't disagree that 365 is not a really well-designed product. 645 00:29:44,075 --> 00:29:48,113 It's just, it's not magic and so bad things can happen. 646 00:29:48,113 --> 00:29:50,843 And no, I can't describe all of the bad things that could happen. 647 00:29:51,668 --> 00:29:53,193 But that's why we have backup. 648 00:29:53,193 --> 00:29:56,193 That's why we have backup everywhere else in IT, and I don't understand why 649 00:29:56,193 --> 00:29:58,203 365 is somehow magically different. 650 00:29:58,528 --> 00:29:58,918 Prasanna: Yeah. 651 00:29:59,020 --> 00:30:02,650 Curtis: I want to throw another claim that you hear from people is one of the 652 00:30:03,250 --> 00:30:09,735 claims that some people mentioned is what if 365 goes down, you have a backup of it. 653 00:30:09,822 --> 00:30:12,130 And these guys were like where are you going to restore it to? 654 00:30:12,460 --> 00:30:12,760 Okay. 655 00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:15,985 So today, There is an assumption that Microsoft would come back up. 656 00:30:16,072 --> 00:30:16,462 Okay. 657 00:30:17,002 --> 00:30:22,982 Second is that what you do have is an E discovery capability. 658 00:30:23,402 --> 00:30:27,842 You do have ability to search and get access to the most important email 659 00:30:28,052 --> 00:30:29,672 that you can download to your laptop. 660 00:30:29,672 --> 00:30:32,462 The most important document that you're working, that you can get down. 661 00:30:32,842 --> 00:30:36,092 No, you're not going to have the entire service, but you can get the most 662 00:30:36,092 --> 00:30:37,712 important things that you were working on. 663 00:30:37,872 --> 00:30:38,112 Prasanna: Yeah. 664 00:30:38,142 --> 00:30:40,842 Or if you had a presentation in an email somewhere, or the email service 665 00:30:40,842 --> 00:30:44,412 down, at least you can go fetch that information while the services. 666 00:30:45,507 --> 00:30:46,137 Curtis: Exactly. 667 00:30:46,497 --> 00:30:48,297 We're not going to be running your email for you. 668 00:30:48,537 --> 00:30:49,827 It's not DR for email. 669 00:30:49,903 --> 00:30:55,002 Prasanna: But if Microsoft goes down and Microsoft 365 is down, there's a lot of 670 00:30:55,002 --> 00:30:56,490 companies that are going to be in pain, 671 00:30:56,503 --> 00:30:59,123 Curtis: and that was oddly enough that they said the same thing and 672 00:30:59,153 --> 00:31:02,423 one of the, one of the articles or comments, it was like, yeah. 673 00:31:02,453 --> 00:31:02,783 Okay. 674 00:31:02,783 --> 00:31:03,822 So what are you saying? 675 00:31:03,822 --> 00:31:06,489 But as long as companies that don't have a third party backup 676 00:31:06,849 --> 00:31:10,749 will be essentially dead in the water, unable to work on anything 677 00:31:10,749 --> 00:31:13,789 that was recent while 365 is down. 678 00:31:13,789 --> 00:31:15,859 And by the way, 365 has gone down, 679 00:31:15,964 --> 00:31:16,234 Prasanna: yeah. 680 00:31:16,354 --> 00:31:22,039 Yup, It reminds me, do you remember when Salesforce did that upgrade 681 00:31:22,039 --> 00:31:26,242 where they ended up messing with a bunch of user metadata? 682 00:31:26,242 --> 00:31:30,472 I think the user objects and they told people go to your backups. 683 00:31:30,472 --> 00:31:33,352 And a lot of companies were like, we don't have anything or go to your sandboxes. 684 00:31:33,682 --> 00:31:34,972 Curtis: That was really weird because. 685 00:31:36,122 --> 00:31:39,512 A script of theirs damaged customer data. 686 00:31:40,952 --> 00:31:44,159 It changed it so that everybody could see everything 687 00:31:45,114 --> 00:31:45,664 Prasanna: Yeah. 688 00:31:45,714 --> 00:31:47,124 But that's why you need backups. 689 00:31:47,489 --> 00:31:48,569 Curtis: that's why you need backups. 690 00:31:48,599 --> 00:31:53,729 And yes, we have had customers Druva has had customers restore data from 691 00:31:53,849 --> 00:31:56,189 their backups in Microsoft 365. 692 00:31:56,282 --> 00:31:59,422 It's hard to get them to come out and talk publicly, but I know that we have at least 693 00:31:59,422 --> 00:32:04,252 one customer that agreed to a case study that we can that we publish on druva.com. 694 00:32:04,282 --> 00:32:05,992 But I don't know. 695 00:32:06,032 --> 00:32:08,842 I just, I don't understand. 696 00:32:08,872 --> 00:32:11,062 I don't disagree it at 365. 697 00:32:11,062 --> 00:32:12,497 Isn't a, a solid product. 698 00:32:12,527 --> 00:32:16,674 Isn't a, well-designed product and actually does a lot of, it has a lot 699 00:32:16,674 --> 00:32:21,637 of really convenient, like what I would call restore convenient features. 700 00:32:22,267 --> 00:32:24,157 They mimic backup though. 701 00:32:24,187 --> 00:32:25,537 They're not backup. 702 00:32:26,347 --> 00:32:28,237 They are essentially snapshots. 703 00:32:28,298 --> 00:32:32,269 And everything is all stored inside the same system, and just because 704 00:32:32,299 --> 00:32:36,379 a catastrophic failure hasn't happened of some 365 customer yet 705 00:32:36,379 --> 00:32:37,939 doesn't mean it won't ever happen. 706 00:32:38,006 --> 00:32:40,468 We have had incidents of the other things like ransomware 707 00:32:40,468 --> 00:32:42,478 and rogue admins and stuff, 708 00:32:43,668 --> 00:32:47,568 Prasanna: I think just trying to bubble it up even higher level, even though 709 00:32:47,568 --> 00:32:52,668 we've talked a lot about Microsoft 365, I think this applies to any SAS or 710 00:32:52,668 --> 00:32:55,188 cloud solution that a customer is using. 711 00:32:55,518 --> 00:33:00,768 That they may not even realize like service now or Zuora or Zen desk, or 712 00:33:00,798 --> 00:33:02,268 you take your pick of cloud services. 713 00:33:02,913 --> 00:33:03,483 Curtis: Exactly. 714 00:33:03,483 --> 00:33:07,353 Any service where you're creating data in that cloud, right? 715 00:33:07,353 --> 00:33:07,803 It does. 716 00:33:07,893 --> 00:33:08,373 Yeah. 717 00:33:08,403 --> 00:33:09,303 Thanks for bringing that up. 718 00:33:09,333 --> 00:33:10,533 It really does apply. 719 00:33:10,903 --> 00:33:15,813 And the only reason why I'm harping on 365 and have multiple times is it only 720 00:33:15,813 --> 00:33:22,983 seems to be with the 365 customer base and their fandom where I get this problem. 721 00:33:23,043 --> 00:33:26,463 No one, I don't know anyone arguing that G suite backs up their data. 722 00:33:26,487 --> 00:33:30,172 Occasionally we get this, the Salesforce stuff, but that's pretty 723 00:33:30,172 --> 00:33:33,916 easy because it's documented Salesforce documented it, amazon documents 724 00:33:33,916 --> 00:33:35,746 pretty good on, on their stuff, but 725 00:33:36,136 --> 00:33:36,856 Prasanna: Microsoft 726 00:33:37,066 --> 00:33:39,016 Curtis: just, they just don't say anything. 727 00:33:39,061 --> 00:33:43,311 It's annoying and I wish they'd come out and be, they do, by the 728 00:33:43,311 --> 00:33:47,751 way in there, this is the weird part is there's 365 for end users. 729 00:33:48,456 --> 00:33:52,086 And there's 365 for businesses and the 365 for end-users. 730 00:33:52,086 --> 00:33:54,546 They specifically state you should back up your stuff. 731 00:33:55,476 --> 00:34:01,312 But in the in the commercial version of the product, they just don't say anything. 732 00:34:01,372 --> 00:34:03,862 They don't say we have a backup of your stuff. 733 00:34:03,892 --> 00:34:04,372 You're good. 734 00:34:04,372 --> 00:34:05,452 You don't need to backup your stuff 735 00:34:05,902 --> 00:34:09,202 but they all, they also don't say you do need to backup your stuff. 736 00:34:09,261 --> 00:34:11,991 So it's just, it's a combination of the fact that Microsoft 737 00:34:11,991 --> 00:34:15,126 is not upfront about this. 738 00:34:15,306 --> 00:34:18,912 And then you have multiple people that are saying that it's not needed. 739 00:34:19,257 --> 00:34:21,657 Prasanna: And they may not be upfront about it because maybe 740 00:34:21,657 --> 00:34:24,757 in their minds, they think what they've provided is backup. 741 00:34:24,757 --> 00:34:26,062 Curtis: Then put it in writing, baby. 742 00:34:27,082 --> 00:34:28,222 That's all I got to say. 743 00:34:28,231 --> 00:34:32,293 I go back to my days of watching judge Judy, it was not in writing. 744 00:34:32,293 --> 00:34:33,073 It doesn't count. 745 00:34:35,333 --> 00:34:36,337 And I don't know. 746 00:34:36,397 --> 00:34:41,947 I, it just seems like on your worst day, the worst, the problem is the worst, 747 00:34:41,947 --> 00:34:48,277 the ransomware attack or the malware attack or the bad actor attack is worst. 748 00:34:48,307 --> 00:34:49,507 The problem is going to be. 749 00:34:49,567 --> 00:34:54,217 And again, I don't care, even if you've turned on retention policies and you've 750 00:34:54,217 --> 00:34:59,077 turned on the preservation lock, even if you've done all of that stuff. 751 00:35:00,142 --> 00:35:02,542 For anything, that's not in the recycle bin, 752 00:35:02,570 --> 00:35:07,400 putting that back is going to be a giant pain in the butt. 753 00:35:07,460 --> 00:35:11,570 And do you really want that to be what happens to you on your last day? 754 00:35:12,311 --> 00:35:15,704 And again, another claim that the guys may look like because of the 755 00:35:15,704 --> 00:35:18,194 APIs and the limits and the throttle limits and everything, it'll take 756 00:35:18,194 --> 00:35:22,394 you a really long time to restore an entire Microsoft 365 tenant to which 757 00:35:22,394 --> 00:35:26,144 I go, yes, I don't disagree with that. 758 00:35:26,864 --> 00:35:28,454 But you could be picky about it. 759 00:35:28,484 --> 00:35:32,103 You could just pick the last, week or so is worth of emails and just restore 760 00:35:32,103 --> 00:35:36,243 those for now while you continue working and then restore the older stuff 761 00:35:36,313 --> 00:35:36,453 Prasanna: later. 762 00:35:36,453 --> 00:35:36,513 Yeah. 763 00:35:36,513 --> 00:35:39,208 Or prioritize which users get restored first. 764 00:35:39,636 --> 00:35:40,966 There's so many options all 765 00:35:42,166 --> 00:35:48,066 Always yours, Curtis, but I people don't think about that. 766 00:35:48,098 --> 00:35:51,368 The other thing is, at least you're able to restore your data. 767 00:35:51,368 --> 00:35:54,428 Even if it takes 50 days, at least you got your data back versus 768 00:35:54,428 --> 00:35:56,078 what, if you don't get your data back, what are you going to do? 769 00:35:56,528 --> 00:36:00,188 It'll be like, what's that Gmail com or the Google company 770 00:36:00,188 --> 00:36:03,478 that accidentally deleted their account and couldn't restore it. 771 00:36:03,478 --> 00:36:06,768 And then the company closed down because it had all their intellectual property? 772 00:36:06,768 --> 00:36:06,978 Curtis: Yeah. 773 00:36:06,978 --> 00:36:09,273 I the name of company is escaping me, but 774 00:36:09,305 --> 00:36:10,655 And then they tried to Sue Google. 775 00:36:11,580 --> 00:36:12,000 Yeah. 776 00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:12,900 Yeah. 777 00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:13,980 Nothing happened with that. 778 00:36:14,010 --> 00:36:14,370 Did it? 779 00:36:14,595 --> 00:36:15,285 Prasanna: I don't think so. 780 00:36:15,555 --> 00:36:15,855 Yep. 781 00:36:15,925 --> 00:36:16,225 Curtis: Yeah, 782 00:36:17,235 --> 00:36:17,955 Prasanna: So don't be like that 783 00:36:18,145 --> 00:36:18,925 Curtis: public about it. 784 00:36:19,625 --> 00:36:20,868 Yeah, don't be like that company. 785 00:36:20,868 --> 00:36:22,078 The cloud is not magic. 786 00:36:22,091 --> 00:36:23,131 SaaS is not magic. 787 00:36:23,161 --> 00:36:24,451 Microsoft is not magic. 788 00:36:24,631 --> 00:36:29,041 And Microsoft is not upfront about what they're doing to protect your data. 789 00:36:29,431 --> 00:36:32,731 They got a really, a lot of really nice features, but all of the 790 00:36:32,731 --> 00:36:34,648 data is still all in one place. 791 00:36:34,698 --> 00:36:38,898 Even if it's in an availability group again, that replicated copy that 792 00:36:38,898 --> 00:36:40,708 lag copy is not available to you. 793 00:36:41,228 --> 00:36:42,938 Don't believe me, ask Microsoft. 794 00:36:43,430 --> 00:36:49,218 If the world blows up and I need to use the lagged copy of, my 795 00:36:49,218 --> 00:36:51,828 database to restore my environment. 796 00:36:51,858 --> 00:36:52,488 Can I 797 00:36:52,595 --> 00:36:56,015 Prasanna: if they said yes, Would your answer change or would your opinion 798 00:36:56,015 --> 00:36:59,625 about Microsoft 365 change Curtis, I'm going to put you on the hot spot 799 00:36:59,675 --> 00:37:00,355 Curtis: Good question. 800 00:37:00,355 --> 00:37:03,295 If they said yes, I would ask them to put that in writing. 801 00:37:04,165 --> 00:37:05,855 Right as a customer. 802 00:37:05,925 --> 00:37:08,985 I would ask them if that, if it is yes, although I'm pretty sure it's not 803 00:37:08,985 --> 00:37:13,125 going to be yes, but if it is yes, then why is that not in the documentation? 804 00:37:13,305 --> 00:37:16,275 What is the scenario that I need to, what is the process that I 805 00:37:16,275 --> 00:37:20,912 need to go through to restore my completely blown away exchange online 806 00:37:20,912 --> 00:37:22,728 or SharePoint online environment. 807 00:37:22,786 --> 00:37:23,428 And it's not there. 808 00:37:23,483 --> 00:37:27,258 Back up your 365 and your G suite and your Salesforce and all the other, 809 00:37:27,998 --> 00:37:30,573 Prasanna: Until Microsoft changes their mind, but until then back it up 810 00:37:30,651 --> 00:37:32,174 Curtis: But even that I'm just gonna say this. 811 00:37:32,174 --> 00:37:36,704 So Salesforce, for example, now offers a for-pay backup service. 812 00:37:36,754 --> 00:37:39,746 But anyway, it's a little expensive, but cause we have to compete with it now. 813 00:37:39,779 --> 00:37:42,460 We were looking at pricing when the pricing came out, was quite surprising. 814 00:37:42,490 --> 00:37:44,860 Just how much they're going to charge for the backup service, but. 815 00:37:45,805 --> 00:37:51,685 I still would not want to use a backup service built by the people that 816 00:37:51,955 --> 00:37:55,555 the original was made from, again, given the choice, I would choose a 817 00:37:55,555 --> 00:37:57,816 third party backup service, just my, 818 00:37:57,825 --> 00:37:58,445 Prasanna: I'm going to challenge 819 00:37:58,445 --> 00:37:58,745 Curtis: you on that, 820 00:37:58,745 --> 00:37:59,125 Prasanna: Curtis 821 00:37:59,335 --> 00:38:01,375 Curtis: you, you're going to make the argument the other way, aren't you? 822 00:38:01,495 --> 00:38:02,845 Because they know the data best 823 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:03,830 Prasanna: They know the data. 824 00:38:04,100 --> 00:38:04,930 And I'll give you an example 825 00:38:04,930 --> 00:38:05,185 Curtis: you know what? 826 00:38:05,185 --> 00:38:06,115 They don't know best 827 00:38:06,405 --> 00:38:06,715 Prasanna: what? 828 00:38:07,405 --> 00:38:07,705 Curtis: Backup. 829 00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:09,990 Prasanna: I agree. 830 00:38:10,130 --> 00:38:13,410 I will give you a counter example, which is Oracle and RMAN. 831 00:38:14,905 --> 00:38:15,355 Curtis: Okay. 832 00:38:15,670 --> 00:38:16,060 Prasanna: Great. 833 00:38:16,420 --> 00:38:22,630 I think if Microsoft provided a similar mechanism as Oracle does 834 00:38:22,790 --> 00:38:22,910 RMAN, 835 00:38:22,910 --> 00:38:24,338 Curtis: Service to backup Oracle, 836 00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:24,530 Prasanna: No. 837 00:38:24,535 --> 00:38:27,205 Curtis: our Oracle doesn't PR or Oracle doesn't, 838 00:38:28,750 --> 00:38:28,960 Prasanna: So 839 00:38:29,034 --> 00:38:29,614 Curtis: know what I'm saying? 840 00:38:29,894 --> 00:38:30,749 Prasanna: But with RMAN, right? 841 00:38:30,749 --> 00:38:34,499 They understand the data, they understand the format and they say we could either 842 00:38:34,499 --> 00:38:38,669 write it to an NFS target or an S3 target, which Oracle will do on its own. 843 00:38:38,699 --> 00:38:44,099 Or you could plug in a backup vendor's, libraries, if you will into Oracle RMAN 844 00:38:44,459 --> 00:38:46,399 and have it manage moving the data. 845 00:38:46,449 --> 00:38:47,589 Curtis: With respect to my friend. 846 00:38:47,739 --> 00:38:51,429 I don't think that's a valid comparison because one is a software tool, right? 847 00:38:51,519 --> 00:38:52,749 And the other is a service. 848 00:38:52,929 --> 00:38:57,339 So my point is that Salesforce as a service is running on infrastructure 849 00:38:57,789 --> 00:39:01,389 right next to that infrastructure will be where the backup service is running. 850 00:39:01,419 --> 00:39:02,919 And I'm not talking about a 3-2-1 thing thing. 851 00:39:02,919 --> 00:39:07,029 I'm just saying the same people have designed the same two pieces of 852 00:39:07,029 --> 00:39:11,309 infrastructure, and they may have made the same catastrophic decisions on both parts. 853 00:39:11,309 --> 00:39:11,519 Prasanna: I agree. 854 00:39:11,860 --> 00:39:13,240 Curtis: That's not the same as 855 00:39:13,435 --> 00:39:13,855 Prasanna: I agree. 856 00:39:13,870 --> 00:39:14,890 Curtis: a software backup tool. 857 00:39:15,720 --> 00:39:15,990 anyway. 858 00:39:17,125 --> 00:39:18,441 All right did you have fun? 859 00:39:18,851 --> 00:39:19,361 Prasanna: I did. 860 00:39:19,361 --> 00:39:22,361 I always like talking about Microsoft 365 with you, for some reason. 861 00:39:22,931 --> 00:39:25,301 I think it might've been the first topic that you brought up 862 00:39:25,301 --> 00:39:29,976 to me that had your blood boiling before we started the podcast, 863 00:39:31,476 --> 00:39:31,766 Curtis: Yeah. 864 00:39:31,766 --> 00:39:34,106 Prasanna: I do remember when you were on those calls with Microsoft 865 00:39:34,106 --> 00:39:36,286 and you're like, oh my God, I can't believe it did you know?. 866 00:39:37,226 --> 00:39:37,766 Curtis: Yeah. 867 00:39:37,976 --> 00:39:38,426 Yeah. 868 00:39:38,461 --> 00:39:39,597 Thanks to the listeners. 869 00:39:39,664 --> 00:39:42,077 Otherwise it's just me and you talking to microphones. 870 00:39:42,077 --> 00:39:46,000 And remember to subscribe so that you can restore it all.