You got questions going out of your mind. Someone with answers. Now that's hard to find, like the what and the why and the how stuff works or just where to go to avoid all the jerks. She's Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Gear Abby. Advice that doesn't suck. Gear Abby. Hello there, my outdoorsy friends, and welcome to Gear Abbey, where we tackle the controversial, weird, obscure, pure and taboo topics that other outdoor podcasts refuse to touch. I'm outdoor educator and writer Shawnté Salabert, and I'm here to answer your burning questions about our relationships with outdoor people, products, places and pastimes. And I want them all, because, remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice. All right, good people, here is how it works. You're going to send questions to dear gear abby gmail.com. that's right, dear gear abby gmail. And I'm going to answer a couple of them each week here on the show. And as always, the moment you've been waiting for. Joining me today and every single week, whether you like it or not, my partner in Gear, the producer of Gear Abby, and a guy who puts the ban in banter, Colin. True.

Are we getting banned somewhere? That's amazing. I hope so. That means we're doing our jobs right.

That's. Yes. I. I think somewhere. Somewhere someone has said, I don't want this. Good, Good. It's not for everyone.

Okay, it's not for you.

It's just for you.

Speaking of it not being for you. Oh, I did. Shantae. This last week I put up. I finished my trifecta of online polls, and much like a bad action movie franchise, the third installment got the least amount of votes. First poll, people are over.

You're going to call. Yeah.

Second poll did okay. This one not so much. But we are ending with a bang because the poll was what be the best topics for Gear Abbey? Well, it was for Gear Abbey, but what would be the best topics on an outdoor themed OnlyFans channel? The options were wildlife sightings, using, you know, air quotes, backcountry rescues, of course, the kinky version of all these things. Outdoor gear and group activities. And the winner by not really landslide, wildlife sightings, which I was a little disappointed that group activities only got 29% of the vote.

I will be honest. Group activities was my vote.

Yeah, and then outdoor gear only 5%. That one seemed the most obvious. Like we covered it on an episode. Yeah, right. Like, what are you talking about?

Like, we already heard that on the podcast. It's nothing. You won't learn anything new.

Oh, Colin, I guess we're going to retire the poll for a little while anyway. We'll think of some other good ones and come back with. We'll come back with them.

The royal we. Which just means, Colin, just so everybody

knows, I made sure I tagged you in this one. And I did think of this poll specifically after editing the last episode. Reset. Don't put up anything about the only fans. And I'm like, well, now I'm definitely

going to do that.

Oh my God. I forget sometimes that I have to treat you as if you are my little brother. Like, I know I've said it before, that you are the little brother I never had that's actually older than me because I like to say that too. Oh, Colin, what we do without you See here I'm thinking about like all of these other things. I was like, what are we going to talk about today? Is it going to be my REI annual refund of my whopping $18 and. Oh, no, sorry, $19.28 real.

Did I miss that? Is that in my mailbox? Did you just get yours?

I did, I did. It's got, you know what? Did I ever tell you I was once on the COVID of one of these mailers? I know, it's a real iconic moment. My friends and I got to do some pretty cool REI photo shoots and video shoots back in the day. Yeah, $19. You maybe you didn't get one. Maybe you have no money coming, you loser.

It could be. I definitely bought some things at REI this past year.

I don't know.

Like I. Yeah, I just feels like they're hanging on to like, you know, the. They have to hang on to the co thing, but it's like maybe just be a retailer.

The co op part is in italics. It's like it's the Lacroix of. It's the whisper of co. Op.

We are a co op. We will issue you something at some point.

It may be a coupon to spend money with us.

Maybe next year it will be. Here is a tube of noon tablets.

Hey, listen, that is your. I've talked about the delicious drink you can make with those. The old trash. That's true. Never forget. I mean, all you need is some dirty ass lake water and a little bit of whiskey and you're. You're set. So I would take that. I would take that reward.

Would you rather have your sub $20 reimbursement or a free tube of noon sub $20 reimbursement.

Let's be real. Which I may go spend on noon. I don't know. Actually I don't like noon anymore. I'm. I've moved. I've moved on.

I've nooned to scratch Hammer.

No, just whatever's on sale in packets. I'm agnostic as far as brand goes. It's more like. There used to be this great brand though called. I think it was called Foxhound Fuel or something actually made here in where I live. And they had a matcha lime flavor that I have been wishing I could replicate. But I think it would just be bad if I tried.

Yes, that's probably not a good idea.

So good. I used to. I would chug it every morning on the trail. I would just like put it in my. My little. I take a running flask in my backpacking. I have a. So I have a six Moon Designs Swift V pack which is. It's got like a running vest style harness system. It is amazing. You just put all your snacks and everything in there. But yeah, I always have a running flask in there with. Now I just do coffee in the morning. Like cold coffee. But oh my God. The. The lime. It was like having a mojito. But like a grassy mojito do do

through hikers or regular backpackers just or that do multiple days. Are they on board with salt tabs? Because I get. That was what I found running long distances was I just got really sick of the sweet drinks and that just water and salt tabs. What really worked better for me.

Yeah. I mean you can also just eat chips or something. I think we've talk this too. I feel like chips. Sorry, I gotta go. I gotta eat something. Actually very hungry today. I. No, I don't know. I carry salt tablets with me as an emergency situation. But yeah, that's it because I'm not. I'm not a deer. Like I don't eat a salt. Like I just.

You don't eat. You don't sit there gnaw on them. It's like a capsule and you swallow them as opposed to drinking a sugary electrolyte drink.

It's boring, Colin.

But I get tired of sweet stuff when I'm outside for too long.

That's because you're so salty, Colin. I was worried there for a minute. I was like how am I gonna one up Colin? Because I. I try with whether or not you realize that I'm trying every episode.

What up me?

How? I don't know. Just emotionally in. In the banter. In the banter.

I guess if I'm Bringing the best out of you then, is what I'm gonna say. That's how I'm gonna be.

You are.

I'm your JK Simmons to your Miles Teller. Whiplash style, like.

All right, you know, very niche.

Not my tempo, Shantay.

Oh, my goodness. But let's kick things off. I think the people would like to hear. I mean, they love the banter. We do get a lot of comments about it, but I think they also want to hear some questions and answers. So let's get into it.

All right, let's do it. First question of the day. Dear Gear Abby, this summer, I'm teaching what I'll describe as an outdoor ethics course.

Why is it what you'll describe? Why is it. Is it. Is that a euphemism?

I guess they put it in quotes. Let's see what they explain. And I'm trying to figure out how to finesse one particular topic, so I figured I'd outsource to a real human instead of AI with the question being, what's your take on geotagging on social media? Good thing, bad thing, don't care. Signed jb.

Oh, very mysterious. There's a lot of mystery, Jack. Thank you for emailing, Jack. I love it. You went from School of Rock to the School of Outdoor Ethics. I.

He's a backpack. Jack Black. Backpack. So maybe. Come on, jb.

I didn't know. Is he really.

No, no.

Yeah.

No. He really is an outdoorsy guy, huh?

I think here we just need to get him on the show with Flea, who is also a backpacker.

There you go.

Always hanging out in the Sierra. See, guys, just. If you build it, they will come. So Flea sent us an email. Now that we've got Jack Black, clearly, who obviously wrote this. You know, jb, Jack Black. The other upside to asking me instead of AI is that unlike AI, I cannot be programmed to spy on my fellow citizens. So you've. You've chosen wisely, sir. Okay. Or person. I don't actually know this person's gender. I'm just assuming it's Jack Black now. Like, I have.

For the sake of this email. We were. JB is now a male because it's

Jack Black, so that's exciting. I wonder if. Were you ever a Tenacious D fan?

Of course.

I once le. Do you remember Lee? Lee. Lee was a friend of mine on. On MySpace back in the day.

Wow.

I was name drop one step removed from jb.

Look at you.

Well, then. Well, until he emailed me. You know, now we're. Now we're basically best friends.

Yeah, awfully. We don't need you anymore. We got, we got.

That's right, we've got direct source. All right, well, here, let's dig into this mysterious JB's email. So for the very few people listening who have never heard of geotagging or maybe even social media, and if, if you are one of those people, I. I wish I was you.

Yeah, it's so jealous, right?

Oh, you live in an era I wish. I wish I could experience. So what JB is talking about is using things like location tags, hashtags to identify places that you post about online. We really were talking about Instagram, by and large, because it's. This is about people posting images and, and now videos because we've pivoted to video real hard. Um, but so for instance, you might post a photo of a beautiful waterfall and then tag it with the name or the location so that other people can go find it for themselves so they can continue the beautiful cycle of taking photographs for the gram that they saw other people take for the gram. So it is a real hot button topic in the outdoor community, and it has been for like a decade at this point, I want to say. So you're a little late on the uptake, jb, but I guess you were too busy rocking, so that's fine. So I'd say this, like, people fall into one of two sides on this. So the people who are against tagging outdoor locations usually think that this just brings more human traffic into environments that can't handle kind of going viral and, you know, the effects of that. And to be honest, in a lot of cases, they are not wrong. We humans are, in fact, lemmings when it comes to, you know, seeing hyper saturated photos of really pretty places. We just cannot help but follow. So I think there's some pretty obvious examples of how this has turned out badly. We've seen this with the super blooms here in California, places like Horseshoe Bend in Arizona, Hanging Lake in Colorado, even in, you know, the over tourism that's happening in places like Iceland. So as geotagging kind of took off on social media, tons of people flocked to these places. They just wanted to see it for themselves or snap some of those sweet selfies. And, you know, yeah, there has been some fallout. Flowers and other foliage gets trampled, trails have gotten eroded. People park in super asinine places, you know, among other things. So, you know, it actually got bad enough that the Leave no Trace center, which we've talked about before on the pod, actually issued guidance for what they called kind of like responsible social media use. And that's stuff like add some context about places encouraging people to engage in stewardship of, you know, the things they see on social media. So yeah, that, that is one side of things. And I've also. I don't know if you've seen this, Colin, but I've actually seen and I feel like somehow you would be a part of this. I've seen some, you know, you know where I'm going. I've seen some of the anti geotagging people sort of poo poo it as this self centered facet of influencing, like whether or not you even have a following. Like, look at me, I went to the cool place. So I feel like. Colin, do you, are you there?

Oh, I mean, I'm so conflicted on this entire topic. I was trying to say my thanks to the end. It's like this is, you know. Yes, that is a thing. That is definitely. Look at me, look at me. There's definitely an element of some other things that we talk about regularly here in the pod that I'm talking about. We're gonna get on what you have to say.

Yeah.

So it's just like, there's one side, I'm like, fuck off. On the other side, I'm like, you fuck off too.

So I mean, that's you in a nutshell, isn't it?

Kind of is.

It is.

Should I get that tattooed somewhere?

Yes, you just, I want you to actually just get a picture like a you sitting inside of a nutshell and it's just gonna be you with two middle fingers. Actually, I might get this tattoo.

This is kind of an awesome tattoo.

Is this our, Is this our Gear Abbey tattoo? This is.

I'm into it at least. Should we all be wearing Gear Abbey hats?

Yeah. Listen, Sarah, I know Sarah Gensert, our art director. Our creative director. What do we call? She's our art person. She's a creative art director. Awesome human. Sarah, I hope you're listening to this episode because this is all we want. Just Colin.

It's the sticker we need.

It's the sticker we need. It's the sticker that people didn't ask for, but absolutely the one they need. I want it on a water bottle at every REI so I can go buy it with. I can't even probably afford it with my 19 returns.

It's really expensive sticker.

Yeah, just give it to me for free if you can. So. Yeah. Okay. So that's one side of things on the flip side, the people who are kind of pro geotagging, so naming where you're at, where these pretty pictures are from, they come down on the side of increasing accessibility and wonder is sort of how I would put it. So as far as wonder, I think that's kind of pretty obvious. Like, pretty places are inspiring. They allow us to dream big. We feel a sense of awe. And there is, of course, plenty of science behind this idea of the importance of awe in human health. As for the accessibility part, and Colin, you're just. You don't even know what's about to come, but you're going to know when I say it. They essentially consider the anti geotagging folks to be gatekeepers. All right, go ahead, Colin. I know you're going to invoke the newest member of your weird outdoor Marvel superhero lineup.

Oh, the. The gatekeeper.

Yes. As soon as I looked at this question, I was like, oh, yeah, if all I need is for Colin to say the Gatekeeper in that voice. And so we're now that was a great topic.

Next, the end of it. We're over.

Yeah. I hope you enjoyed that, Jack. Maybe Jack can play the gatekeeper in a future movie. Yeah.

Come on, Jabil, get on this for us. Let's go.

Let's do it, jb. All right, so. So let's talk about this gatekeeping. Tell me again, what is it?

Oh, okay, sorry. The Gatekeeper.

This is just for my personal use, all right? So just the thought is, just because you take a photo of a place doesn't mean you own it, and it doesn't mean that other people shouldn't be able to go there. So there has been a long history of what I'd call kind of like insider trading in the outdoors. People have their special fishing spots, campsites, backcountry locations, and they do not want to share them because they don't want them to become overrun. They want to sort of preserve these little slices of heaven for themselves. And the idea is if you tag these cool spots, other people can enjoy them too. So this is. The non gatekeepers are like, yo, listen, this isn't just your private Idaho, okay? Like, other people deserve to go here too. Or at least, at the very least, to be inspired to maybe learn about them, even if they can ever go there. So as far as where I fall, and then I'm going to turn it over to our conflicted Colin here, I do think in a way we're kind of way past the point of worrying about geotagging itself. Like, come on, Just scroll through Instagram. There's going to be. You're going to see all sorts of natural wonders and where they're located. It's. The COVID has been blown, people. There are no secret spots. Seriously, like, get over it. I mean, we humans are filled with curiosity. I think that is a central tenet of being a human being. And I think it's a good thing. I mean, I. I've been inspired to learn about places when I saw them online, whether that's social media or other places, like, I don't know, a blog, a website. Do you remember magazines? People used to write about things in magazines. We would find them there. So I am not interested in becoming the. The gate. Oh, you just say it. You say it.

The Gatekeeper.

That's right. Mostly because I can't say it like that. But I don't want to say, like, listen, my interest in a place is not more important than someone else's. Even if I really enjoy being alone in these places, it's. They're not mine to be alone in. And honestly, I'll be honest here. I don't think I've ever used a geotag on social media. And I have a friend, my friend May, like, really is always like, why don't you tag the places? I'm like, honey, it's because I'm lazy.

Yeah, right, right.

I think it's also because when I post a pretty picture, and I'm sure, Colin, you have seen this, it's generally going to have some sort of like deep thoughts by Jack Handy going.

Deep thoughts by Jack Hand of that. Yeah, totally.

Yeah. But I mean, I'll always answer people's questions if they're like, where did you take that? I will always say it, but it will come with a deep thought. So I don't know, what are your deep thoughts, Colin? Where do you fall on all this?

No, you, you summed it up. I mean, I think this is. This goes back to what we were talking about, that it led to the inception of, you know, the gatekeeper. Right. Because it's like, you know, it's a. If you made a pie, like a pie chart of all of like the places you could go outdoors and then created like, like, what's the sliver of that pie that has been ruined by geotagging? I mean, it would probably be almost un. Invisible, you know, I mean like, it's like, yes, I'm sure it has happened, but more people have probably been able to be. To go see things interesting because of it. I mean, yeah. To Your point? Like, I don't know. I think you and. You and I. Well, you definitely. And even I consider myself a little bit more, you know, a little more informed than the average bear about how to find places to go outside. Right. And I still, the other day, I found scrolling through Instagram, this is one reason why I can't give up the app, because I'm like, oh, look, there's some awesome waterfall in San Diego county that I didn't even know existed. I'm like, oh, I want to go look at that. You know, and it's like, that's how I discovered that place. And like, so I just, like, you know, I. I get it. I. I think it's. It's. It sucks if it has. Some place has been ruined because of it. I think there's probably a pretty small amount of those places, though. That or it was probably places that were already a little overvisited.

Yeah.

And then maybe they've had a few more busy Saturdays because of social media. But don't. You know, it's just like, this is the world we live in. And also, it's kind of like everything else with social media. We have to. Everyone has to learn. And at some point, maybe some things we do, we don't get better unless we have these options. So I say, pro geotag, go for it. Maybe if you feel so. If you're so worried about it, add a little caption instead of a jack handy deep thought. You could go, hey, don't be an asshole and ruin this place if you go visit it. You know, like, chastise the person before they even get there.

I mean, you can also add the deep thought. Oh, well, you have to.

Yeah.

I think at the end of the day, too, I want everybody to remember this. Like you're seeing the same. The same places are just showing up over and over and over. How many times have you seen Horseshoe Bend without even realizing? A lot of people don't even know that's what it's called. You've seen it a million times. Did you know there are so many other places that are equally beautiful in this world? Go out and find some for yourself. I don't know if you want your own private Idaho. Pull out a map. Learn how to read a map, but pull out a map. Go to your local. Like, go to state parks.

Just go to Idaho.

Go to Idaho. That's right.

No, this. Another recurring theme on this podcast. Right. It's like, that's a good point. Like, you know, yes, there's a. These places are incredible. If you see them, you're going to see them and go, wow, this place is incredible. There's a billion other places that nobody's talking about that you could go see.

So go there and then there and then post it.

Feel like you got a little fist shaky there. You're. You're on my squad. For. For a hot moment there, Gear Abby.

I was inspired. I mean, you said it was like you said the gatekeeper three times and that. That summoned my inner fish shaker. So thank you for that. I like.

That's the Beetlejuice corollary, just, you know. Or is it Candyman? Which came first? Buy Candyman probably.

No Beetlejuice. I think Beetlejuice is older. I remember, I feel like I was a kid when I was doing the whole banana, you know, what was it? No, the banana song. What is the song? When they're on the stairs.

Oh, damn.

That is the second. Please don't send us if you're BMI or ascap. I don't want a licensing fee for all of these beautiful songs we're singing on today's episode. Like Lee by Tenacious D or Dale by. What was it, Harry Belafonte. Yeah. Oh, man. All right, well, as much as I would like to continue singing on this episode, I don't think anybody else wants that. So how about you hit us up with the next question?

Okay, next question. Here we go. Dear Gear Abby, I've been a casual runner for a long time, but I have a big goal to run a trail half in the fall. I've never done that distance. I've mostly been a 10k runner, and a friend suggested I start wearing compression socks on my runs. Maybe this is my ignorance, but what do these actually do? And why would they be good for my training? Sign? Many thanks, Gloria V. Is that Gloria

Vanderbilt or do we just have, like, famous people? Do you think Gloria was wearing jeans when she wrote in?

Was she out running in those jeans?

Maybe. Maybe that's why she's already got compression going on. Then maybe they're like skinny jeans. She's like, why do I need extra socks?

Not really trending these days. But, you know, who knows?

I feel like half the people listening will have no idea who Gloria Vanderbilt is and why we're invoking her name. And Google it. Yeah, just Google it. Maybe you can find an influencer post about it somewhere. If Instagram existed in the 80s.

Well, thank God it did.

Thanks. Yes, thank you for all of us adults who were children then. We truly appreciate it. But listen, Gloria Vanderbilt or not Vanderbilt, you are in for a real treat, because compression socks are one of life's little joys. That's right. I think, you know, in a way, this is kind of a straightforward question. Or actually, maybe it's a straight upward question. That is because this is how compression socks work. They.

Oh, my God. It's really. I just. That was a bit of a 1, 2, 3. Oh, I get it.

That's right. That's right, Colin. I'm just. It's a. We're recording this on a Friday, late afternoon, and all of my brain cells have left the building for the day. If you're wondering why they've been compressed. Yes, they have. Upward. Just like the blood in your legs gets compressed by compression socks. They do the way. The thing they do is get that blood moving, and they keep it circulating instead of just pooling around at your feet like a lazy little creep. That is what compression socks do. So how do they do this, you ask? It is not sheer willpower. It is kind of like a big, aggressive shin hug. The tightest weave in these socks. So they've got different weaves usually going on in them. So there's gonna be a real tight weave down at the bottom, and then it's gonna usually loosen a little bit as you move up the sock. And that is called graduated compression. That's. It's like the ombre of compression, if

you will, or really well educated, because they've grow.

Oh, that's true. It is a mat. There's a master's of smart compression happening here. Truly intelligent beings, these socks. So I will say, because they're tighter than most everyday socks, this can mean that it feels a little bit like you're losing the battle against the laws of aerodynamics or gravity or something every time you try to pull them on, especially if you're going for the knee high version. But I do think it's a good way. Maybe, Colin, you should. I don't know if you're a compression sock wearer, but this could help you get out a little bit of your aggression. You know, just like yelling at the sock as you're trying to wrestle it onto your foot.

I'll. I'll save my opinion for the end of your response gear, Abby.

I can't wait, Truly. All right, so. So compression socks, besides being a little difficult to get on, they're really. They're. They're not bad at all. They're actually great. They come in different strengths. So if you don't want the ones that feel like your leg is trapped in a vice. You can find some that are more like everyday wear, some that are meant for recovery, some that are more therapeutic, that help people find relief from things like, you know, edema and pots and shin splints, like I used to think. I will say I was a little prejudiced against compression socks. I thought they were just for people with circulation issues or like people taking, you know, long plane rides, but they're actually great. So here's the thing, really, this is. This is a fascinating thing to me, maybe it will not be to you, but. So these socks have a strength rating, okay. And it is measured in the very unsoc, like, quantity of millimeters of mercury. That sounds incredible.

Sounds like a. Like a. Like a 90s, like, you know, pop band or something like that.

It was an alt rock band, Colin. Come on. It was. I think Jared Leto was maybe the lead singer. It was his band before 30 seconds to Mars. Millimeters of Mercury.

Alt rock. I don't know. I think they're more in like the. Yeah, a little like pop rock, you know, like. Like Train, maybe, kind of like that.

Oh, you're just thinking about drops of Jupiter. That doesn't. That doesn't work here. Okay.

Oh, my God. That's exactly.

This is the Train cover band. Millimeters of Mercury.

Wow.

I like that your brain did that, though. That is wonder knowing that somewhere in your brain, your little neurons were like, we are going to make this connection.

We know this sounds familiar, but you don't know what it is, but you're

just gonna say it because that was a thing.

But really, at the end of the day, what's the difference between drops of Jupiter and millimeters of mercury? I mean, it's honestly, like, what's the lesser than version of the other, if you think about it?

I don't know. It's all about the squeeze, man. Did you know, though? So millimeters of mercury, the measurement, not the weird 90s band that we're making up, it is actually a measure of the. The pressure of a 1 millimeter high column of mercury. Like, what pressure that could create. So it.

This is kind of a random, like, way to measure this, isn't it?

Right? It does, it does. It sounds absolutely made up until you realize this is the same way they measure blood pressure. I was like, I'm sorry. My entire life, I never knew what those numbers meant. So if. If your pressure is high, like Collins probably is, every time I remind him that I've never seen a single Lord of the Rings film.

Goddamn Travesty.

Like. Like, let's say 135 over 80. That means that your blood is pushing against your arteries at the equivalent pressure of 135 millimeters of mercury at exertion and 80 of them at rest. So now you know. Now when you go to your doctor, you could be like, have you heard the cool band? Millimeters of mercury. How's my blood pressure doing when I listen to them? Please tell me that's right. Don't say you've never learned anything while listening to this podcast. Just full effects.

If you ever say that. Clearly you're not listening to this podcast.

That's right. We're constantly learning and teaching, but mostly bantering. So, anyway, what does this all have to do with running? Gloria, we're going to come back to you here. We're coming back to the plot. Glad you asked. So a lot of runners actually wear compression socks after their runs. Um, and that helps with recovery. So that is because the same process, that pressuring of the blood to keep it moving upward actually helps move metabolic waste, that stuff like lactate out of your muscles a little more quickly. Um, and personally, I just think it feels nice to have a little pressure on swollen feet after a long run. So it's like, you know, maybe mental recovery as well, little emotional recovery, which I always need after a run. It's usually in the form of chocolate, but whatever. Um, there are also benefits to wearing them while you run. And I'd say two of the biggest ones that I know of are to keep that. That. Fresh blood. Fresh blood. Can you say that in your voice?

This is a new vampire podcast, Fresh blood pod, but fresh blood.

You say fresh blood in your voice just so I have it on. On tape.

Fresh blood.

I hated that. Okay, don't ever say.

Does that work for you? I don't know if that's.

No. Don't ever say that again. Sorry that I did that to everyone. Okay, now that we're all terrified. It. It is. They will keep the blood pumping through your muscles, and it will help cut down on potential swelling, especially when it's hot out. If you wear these things. Some people also swear by that extra support that you get by that tighter weave for things like shin splints, plantar fasciitis. I will say it didn't really help with mine, my plantar fasciitis, but what did help was wearing Birkenstocks in the house and out of the house every day for a month, and then I didn't have them anymore. So that's the true secret. Um, so if you, if you're listening, Gloria, which you should be since you asked this question, if you want to try some out, I do recommend starting with the knee high socks versus the ankle ones. Like, I have both. Um, the thing is the knee highs are just going to give you more of that benefit because they're going to keep the compression moving further, you know, keep that blood kind of further up your leg. It's just, it's doing. It's more. It's a powerhouse. It's. It's a whole leg experience. You know, why just settle for a foot experience when you can have a whole leg experience? That's. That's the other podcast we're gonna do.

Should have had that in the only fans hole.

Next time. Next time when I do a poll.

There we go.

But yeah, so, so, you know, I, I love a little calf relief. Those knee highs are gonna help with that. I do like wearing the ankle socks on hot days or on long hikes because they do help my feet feel just a little bit less swollen. Even though my homies, Ed and Gingi haven't yet made compression toe socks, much to my dismay. I wish they would. But, yeah, that's kind of the, the scoop on how compression socks work and why you might use them. And Colin, you've been sitting here patiently like a good pig. What, what do you think about compression socks? Are you a fan?

I'm. I, I recognize that there are especially some medical applications here. Especially like older folks, medical, things like that.

Medical applications. Okay. Are you about to say you think

the most part, I'd say overrated.

Oh, my God. Can someone just need someone to send us a question about cold plunges? Because then you're going to really hear.

Please send that question in, listeners. Now, look, I mean, Gloria, I don't know. Ms. Vanderbilt, I don't know if you have, you know, what your, what your current state of things are, how old you are, all those things. However, you do want to trail half. I, I think there's diminishing returns on. We're doing something. Something like this. Unless where Shantae did and you did say this, it's sometimes a lot of people, it just feels good.

It just feels good.

And from that point of view, I can't argue with you. But I just think like, I don't know. I, I tried. I've run in them, I've worn them, I've had sleeves, I've had socks. And I found they did nothing for me other than like, it kind of feels good now. Like, you know, there's times when maybe afterwards you want to put it on, it feels like it's doing something. I don't know. I never really got that experience, but that's just my me.

Whatever, loser. Today's episode of Gear Abby is presented by the one, the only, the most delightfully alliterative outdoor retailer in the game. That's right. Garage Grown Gear.

Garage Grown Gear.

Garage Grown Gear is. Are we doing a weird echo now? Thank you.

I was just trying to, like, you know, like, harmonize with you.

Wait. Garage Grown Gear.

Grown Gear.

Okay, what is See the latest and greatest coming from the coolest and newest outdoor brands? I know you do. Head over to garagegrowing gear.com, click on that new button and all shall be revealed, including the following. Want a fleece dress that packs down to the size of a burrito? You know I do. That's what you get with Ewers Treasure Dress Air. And it's made out of PrimaLoft's fresh air fabric. And yours for only one 49, that is.

You think they had to pay off like PBS was. Or was it? Or wait. Sorry, Where's Fresh Air? When did Fresh Air run?

Was that on NPR? NPR. Thank you. Sorry, NPR's public something dress that's a little different. You know, Gear Abby loves a small, furry mountain rodent. That's right. I sure do. And that's why you should order up the coconut mango granola from Angry Pica or Angry Pika. Angry Pica. I'm going Pica here. Angry Pica Food Co for the low price of 9.49.

It's a great logo. You should check it out.

I will.

The Pika looks very angry.

Probably in its anger. It still looks extremely cute.

It does.

Lastly, if you're looking to upgrade your sleeping kit, be sure to check out the full range of quilts, from Zenbivy, from ultralight sheets to ultralight quilts. A good ultralight night on the ultralight trail is just a click away. Whether you're a ul backpacker or just an outdoorsy person who wants to see how outdoor innovation at its best, you'll find something to love when you head to the official gear shop ofgear Abby garagegrown gear.com. you know, sometimes when I think about compression socks, I think about weighted blankets. And, like, they're kind of weighted blankets for your legs. And I feel calm. I feel calmer now. Colin, do you? I don't.

I guess I see how you connect those dots.

Don't king shame me. Okay.

There's no king shaming here. How do you know?

Expression isn't my king.

Think the feeling. The feeling of compression equals the feeling of the weight. But I guess I'll go. I'll just go with you on this one.

Thank you. Thank you. It's. I want, like, a lasagna. Like a layer cake, a baklava of compression. I want, like a cat laying on top of a weighted blanket while I'm wearing thigh high compression socks. That's. That's the only fans content that people want, by the way.

We didn't know that gear Abby was a closeted Garfield fan, but we got. We got cat lasagna and weighted blanket in the same.

I grew up in the 80s.

It's Big Jim Davis guy.

Are you.

That's right. That's me. Big Jim Davis guy. All right, maybe Jim. Maybe Jim's written us. I don't know. Maybe Garfield has written us. What do you have next?

That would be amazing. And we encourage any fictional cartoon characters to write into dear gear abbymail.com.

yeah, send it. We can transcribe your meows into English. It's fine. Send us what you got.

Don't cats go after the marmots?

You don't know.

Okay. All right, next question. Here we go. Dear gear Abby, Proud owner of a rather extensive gear closet here. Thing is, most of what's inside comes from a time when camping gear was heavier and bulkier. So I don't feel terribly knowledgeable about the. About the ultralight fad. Oh, the fading words for a lot of people there, buddy. What are some of your favorite innovations in ultralight gear, particularly ultralight backpacking gear? Sincerely, old school. Fuddy duddy.

Perfect sign off. All right. Funny duddy. Good job. Nice question. I don't know about the use of the word fad here. We clearly took that personally. But I. I do love nerding out on ultralight. I am surrounded by DCF and alpha and titanium as we speak. That is my. I just live in a castle made of those things. But I know somebody who's even more nerdy about it. Shockingly so. We had to bring back the man, the myth, the legend, the founder of Garage Grown Gear, Lloyd Vogel. Hey, Lloyd. How's it going today?

Hello. You know. Yeah, fad. Bad.

Bad. Are you upset? Did we. Did we start. Are you gonna fist shake on this episode too?

Yeah, yeah, I can. I can shake my fist a little bit virtually for the listeners, but, you know, maybe don't. Okay, I won't. I actually already did, but I Think you know, the thing about ultralight as a, as a fad is it's not a fad. I think largely like backpacking and what good backpacking gear is right now is just ultralight backpacking gear. If you want to go hike longer, faster, more comfortably, it just like makes more sense to carry less stuff. And it's not like it's. I mean we've seen like REI come out with a bunch of like they have a, a quilt that is their own thing. You see like some of Osprey's best selling packs are their ultralight packs. Like, like ultralight is becoming something that if small specialty shops don't carry ultralight stuff, people aren't buying their backpacking gear because there's just like, if you could choose really heavy stuff or really light stuff and it costs like about the same, it doesn't really make sense to make your trail experience harder. So that's obviously my incredibly biased.

You're just, just gently biased. So you're not out there with an external frame pack, Is that what you're saying?

I'm not. And I don't see, I don't see the trend of backpacking swinging back to being harder, more difficult and heavier. It just doesn't feel like that's the evolution of what backpacking is where very much I think the evolution of backpacking will be a continuation towards ultralight.

Yeah, I just like to jump in.

I was like to jump in and say. You can argue when the inception point of ultralight backpacking was. A lot of people would say it was Ray Jardine's book. And would either of you like to garner, when that book was published, the father of ultralight?

Oh, I have that book here. Don't look.

No, cheat.

I'm looking at it. Trail Life by Richard.

I give a lot away on the COVID If you looked at it.

No, I think it was early 80s, right? Or late 70s.

Actually. No, 1992.

Oh, yeah.

So if it's a fad, it's a 30 year old fad.

It's a real old fad.

But. Well, all right, all right. Funny thing is, by the way, before, Before I have you actually answer Fuddy Duddy's question. This was not planned, Lloyd. But you were just on Owen Comerford's new outdoor unfiltered PODC the other day talking about whether or not ultralight was going mainstream. Were you not?

Yeah, pretty much had the same rant that I just gave. I gave on.

Wonderful. I'm glad people get to hear it twice. It's like ultralight Lloyd week over at the Rock Fight Network. So thanks, thanks for putting yourself out there. I know it's very hard for you, a very private man who's never on social media. So thank you.

And you know what also is not a fad. Shantae is our first ever two time guest, Lloyd Vogel.

I know we gotta. Lloyd, you're kind of turning into. And you're going to be a regular and I don't mind it.

You are a bit, a like cameo, bit player. You know, I feel like I kind of played that role with, with the Rock fight and you know, I'm happy to be. Yeah, whatever you need me to be. Whatever you need me to say, I can be like that. You know, that expert witness who just like pops in, says something and leaves. As long as I'm getting that fat paycheck, it's.

It's all good jokes on you, Lloyd. All right, well, let's, let's dig into funny Duddy's question, which is pretty simple. For once we have a very straightforward question. What are some of your favorite. And maybe it's not straightforward at all because this is actually. Now you got to think about 30 years of ultralight, but what are some of your favorite innovations in ultralight backpacking gear? Like the things that made you go, this is a game changer.

I'm gonna, I'm gonna twist this question a little bit, but it's going to, it's gonna get at the essence of it is, you know, I think generally if you have a more traditional kit and are looking to be able to lighten up, the way that you do it is slowly, gradually and over time.

Time.

So, you know, you don't have to go From a, a 20 to 30 pound base weight to a 10 pound base weight overnight. It's probably not going to feel good for you to do that because it's going to feel like you're just ripping off a band aid. And it might not even work with the style of backpacking that you enjoy. There is something more you're bringing. Less stuff. It means less creature comforts. Yes. Lighter means that you're gonna move faster when you're on the trail, but it might mean that you're bored as hell when you get into camp because you're not, you know, know, bringing that hardback book. Was that. That's not a word, is it hardback?

That sounds.

What's the writer?

I'm not gonna kink shame you, but yeah, you're. No, you're, you're close. You're close. Hard now. Now I don't know what it's called.

What?

You just ruined me. Hardcover. Hardcover.

Hardcover.

There we go.

Wow.

But you know, I think some of the things like quilts have been such a phenomenon over the course of really the last, I'd say 10, 12 years of really becoming something that is increasingly mainstream. It feels like every company that makes a sleeping bag also makes some iteration of a quilt. That's a great way to be able to lighten up and not really sacrifice any comfort. And one could argue add a lot of comfort through that.

Oh yeah.

You know, I think other innovations like nothing's new about this but some of the most preeminent sleeping pad manufacturers are also the ones that make the lightest options in terms of the X Lite and the Nemo Tensor. These are, are legacy brands that make the best lightest product and largely they've been doing it for years. So those feel like. And you know, Shantae, like anyone who backpacks knows like your big three or your big four or whatever are where you can have the most weight savings. So if you're you know, transferring to a lighter quilt, you're you know just going to. And some of the pad technology right now, like you are really not losing a lot of comfort for weight. Like the Neo Loft thermal rest sleeping pad is like a, I would sleep on that, on a front floor and you could also backpack with that. And it is literally the most comfortable thing in the world to, you know.

Literally?

Well, not literally.

No. We don't like we don't kink shame but we also don't want over exaggeration on this pod.

It is a comfortable pad but not the most comfortable thing in the world.

Great. Thank you for your revision.

You bet. 2. You know, I think the, there's just a million of really good tents out there and if you are, if you really like a freestanding tent, there are amazing options like the Nemo Hornet as a one person tent is like just over a pound and it is easy to set up just enough space for me and it's great. And you know that is a product that I love. There's a million different trekking pole supported tents that all will do really great things from Durston to zpacks to tarp tent. You know there's to gossamer gear. There's really good options there that can get you from a three to four pound tent to a one to two pound tent and not really have it be like you're sacrificing you Know, a ton of. A ton of stuff. Maybe a little bit of vestibule space, maybe a little bit of, you know, foot room that you're not actually really using. And then, you know, you look at it last with a pack. Like packs are generally what I would suggest folks replace last because you need to make sure that all the stuff that you have actually fits in your pack. And it's also the thing that you're going to carry on, I mean, obviously with you for the duration of your day. So if you're not enjoying that pack, you're going to have a bad time. So, you know, we've seen it with people who they think they want to go ultra light. And so they go from like a, you know, a deuter pack that weighs four pounds to like a, you know, a frameless ultralight pack from Polante. And they're like, whoa, jam.

Yeah, I haven't lighten anything else up. Just the pack.

Yeah, I had a friend who did that and his pack fell, fell apart while we were on the pct.

Oh, no.

Literally like the seam ripped one day and his stuff just fell out. It's like.

Well, it's like someone snapped it away. It's just like pieces of dust like

floating off, you know, it's not, it's not meant for that. And if I think with a lot of ultra light gear, if you wanted to perform in a way that it's not designed to perform, you're gonna have a bad time.

Yeah.

So I would say for, yeah, for our, our fuddy duddy. There is so much gear out there that like the ability to engage ultralight backpacking is as accessible as it has ever been and it is just becoming even more accessible. And there are so many forums on Reddit and every website has a different opinion about it. And like, largely you really can't go super wrong with any of the kind of established products. Like a quilt is literally nylon and down. I don't know. There's like dozens of companies that make pretty much the same thing, different baffle construction. But ultimately, like, unless you are really techy and specky, you're probably going to be fine with a hammock gear, a Katabatica ugq, an enlightened equipment or anything that you pick. It's probably going to serve you barely fine. And there's a whole bunch of rectangle bags out there with straps that will like pretty much do something pretty similar unless you have a really discerning, you know, preference for certain stuff. So I think if you want to Go ultralight and replace your gear. Like, I can't tell you what the best option is for you, but. But just start googling stuff and try out some used gear options if you can, because that'll just be cheaper to start.

Well, couldn't you argue that since if you use that 92 Ray Jardine book as like the inception point of this whole thing, like isn't almost the category just become ultralight? I mean, just like by. Yes, there was a market shift towards this is way different than what you've had for the previous 30 years. But I feel like the industry is probably just, just implemented so much of the technology and material developments just into the category that so, I mean, it's almost like harder to kind of. It wouldn't be almost harder to create a super heavy backpacking kit unless you're just truly buying cheap, like off the shelf car camping stuff and trying to jam it in a backpack to take on a trip.

I don't know, dude. There's also people who value comfort and for them comfort is going to be a bigger pad. It is going to be a heavier pack. It is just because those things feel better sometimes on your body, especially if the rest of your gear is heavier, like you pack is going to be more substantial. But I don't know, I think, I mean, I think what Lloyd's saying though is that, yeah, it is definitely the trend is toward that in the, you know, quote mainstream. It's not just an underground thing. It's not just Ray and his acolytes, you know.

Yeah, I think if, if I was, if, you know, if I'm thinking about myself and I transfer myself back 15 years and I was thinking about like what the preeminent gear. If I was going to like kit myself out with like the best backpacking gear year, I think 10 or 15 years ago, I would have thought, like, I'm gonna get a Marmot sleeping bag, I'm gonna get a Sierra Designs tent. I'm right.

Those were still the brands.

Those were still the brands that when people think of like top of the line backpacking stuff, you're thinking about stuff that is not ultralight. I think when you're talking about like what the best backpacking gear is right now, those names are not necessarily a part of the conversation. And the brands that have not evolved to be able to have ultralight options are the ones that are becoming those zombie irrelevant brands. And then you see the, the, the mountain hardware is coming out with ultralight lines. You see, you know, Black diamond getting into the space. And to me, you know, it's weird to see some of these big brands starting to put ultralight in front of things and have a, you know, three and a half ounce down jacket and be like, okay, yeah, that's, like, competitive, and it costs, like, $500. But, like, that's. There is clearly an idea that, like, that is a shifting narrative, that, like, folks are prioritizing that. And if big brands are getting into that space, they're doing it because they think that there' market share to be able to gobble up. Which I think is both encouraging for ultralight and I think a little scary for smaller brands that are like, okay, what happens when we have to, you know, when suddenly this niche isn't just like our little niche that we get to, like, hang out on, hang out in and be kind of a big fish in a. In a small pond. So I don't know. It's an. It's an interesting, evolving space to be in.

It is. Ah, fuddy duddy. Well, I have to say, Lloyd, if I'm hoping for one innovation in the space, because nobody asked me if I wanted one innovation in the ultralight space. I want. And I know exactly who I want to test this product. I just want, like, a pair of Alpha Direct overalls, and I want Colin to wear them. And he smiled because he knows that I want him to wear them because he has a staunchly never overall kind of guy. He's like a never nude. He's a never overall guy.

He's a never nude.

That might be the way, you know, I could. I could see slipping into smell Alpha Direct, you know.

Right.

You know, I don't want any of that for you.

That's what I'm saying. We just.

I don't want cars or Lipson or anything like that. I want Alpha Direct overalls.

Are you listening, Sam?

I think he can make a, like, 120gsm pair of overalls that just had, like, a little, like, middle thing that said Colin on it.

Even better. The weirder it gets, the more I'm into it, you know, like a.

Like a lost kid who needs to have a name tag to be identified.

Colin Dante's gonna put one of those, like, kid leashes on me so I get to control me at the trade show kind of thing.

It's got a little. It's got a little ring on the back for. For the lease attachment, a little bungee.

Oh, man. See, this is. Lloyd, this is why we're gonna have you back again, because that I get to, like, double team on Colin when you're here, so I really appreciate it.

Don't kink shame.

That's right, we don't. But you're. Thank you, Lloyd, so much for joining us. We love that you can take a little bit of time out of your busy schedule to act poetic about Ultralight. Are going to have you back again soon, whether you like it or not. And you can. I think you're going to become, like, our special correspondent for Ultralight Gear, which, if we make an acronym out of it, you know what that is. It's skul. So it's not as good as Collins, which is pig partnering Gear. But sk, I think we can get down with that.

I think I can sk.

I can name one of the orcs in Lord of the Rings. I think, you know, nerd.

I can agree to have that as be the name tag on my alpha.

Okay, we've got Colin and Skull.

Yeah, I want to be Pig then. If we're doing nicknames.

Okay. I'm not gonna say no to that. All right, Lloyd, we'll see you next time. Bye. Another. Another episode. Another loiding. Another coloning.

We have loided.

We have loided. We have Colin. We have fish shaken. We have gate kipped. No, we haven't. Just Colin. That's it for this episode. That is it for this episode of Gear Abby. Until next time, send your burning questions about your relationships with outdoor products, people, places, and pastimes over to DearGearAbbyMail.com and I'm going to do my best to answer them or invoke a Lloyd that can. And of course, head over to your podcast listening service of choice and subscribe, rate and review to support the pod and make my day. And follow us over on Instagram, where we don't geo tag, but we also don't keep cape. Cape Gatekeeper.

I'm not editing that out.

Gear Abby pod on Instagram. That's right. In the meantime, today's episode was produced by David Karstad and Colin. True art direction, as we mentioned, provided by the highly talented Sarah Gensert, who's going to work real hard on that graphic of Colin in the nutshell, shaking his middle fingers.

Double birds, baby.

I'm Shantae Salab, and remember, there are no dumb questions, just smart advice.