Welcome back to the Daily Bible Podcast! We're so glad you've joined us. And now your hosts, Pastor PJ and a very special guest.

Hey everybody. Welcome into this very special episode. As you just heard Bernard tee up. You've got me the normal guy. I'm here, I'm old news. I've been around for a while, but we have a very special guest in to call it a studio is a little bit too generous. We won't quite do that, but in the office here, and it is not other than Pastor Mark Kogan. Hey guys, how's it going Pastor Mark, you are. Catch everybody up and we've got some listeners from outside of our church. People listen from South Africa and Mexico now New Zealand and Mexico, and all over the world. This is a global phenomenon, what we're doing right now. So for those that aren't part of our church, catch 'em up. Tell us a little bit about yourself. So I've been part of Compass NTX since. The beginning, but in different capacities. So just recently it's been the most formal, but going all the way back to 2023. Yep. Is when I first joined the staff as a kind of part-time role doing kids ministry, which I still do now. But yeah, came from Southern Seminary. So I moved rather than from California, moved from Kentucky, Louisville, Kentucky, where I was at Southern Seminary. So I joined the church plant here actually on our very first pre-launch, like soft launch Sunday. That's right. Yeah. I didn't get to see any of those bible studies in the portables in the port with no air conditioning's. That's right. Yeah. Some people just parachute in and have it easy. Yeah. That's right. It was easy. Yeah, totally. It was easy. Totally easy. Totally. Yeah. But most recently as of the beginning of this month, officially I guess a few weeks before that, but officially at the beginning of this month, I am now. Pastor Mark Hogan. Yeah. Which is incredible privilege and honor. Yeah. We're glad to have you on the team. And he undersold it because he came and joined our team and started serving in his role as the kids men director at the time. He said as, I think even as part of the staff not really, 'cause we didn't. We were a church plant, so we didn't really even have the ability to bring him on staff formally at that time. Thankfully, later on we were able to bring him on staff and then finally get, got him full time on staff recently. Pastor Mark has put in the hours, the labors. He's committed himself to, to serve the church. He loves the church, he loves this church and we love that. And he's in with us today because Pastor Rod is in class. So he had some required class on how to write better and he's practicing in our staff meeting notes even we were noticing that he's putting periods on his sentences in our notes now and everything else. That's right. Even though he didn't seem to able write a sentence with all the proper components. That's true. He was a period with just two words with no verb. That's right. Yeah, that's right. Hey, can I shout out my wife too? No, we don't do that. On here. Yes please. She has just been such an awesome part of. All of this and to make it possible for me to serve this church as we believe God has called me to over the past few years. Julia has been awesome. She's great, and she's largely the reason why I was able to do everything over these past few years. Culminating in this point where I got to become a pastor. So I just wanna shout out. That's awesome. That's great, man. That's great. Yeah. Yeah. And that's huge for us. And that's something, when we hire. New pastors when we're looking for pastors. And this was even back in Anna Elis when Pastor Rod came and sat down with me even before we, the plant was like, Hey, what if I came as your associate, we always are very clear, like we're not an egalitarian church. And I think all of our listeners know that we are complimentarian, which means we believe that the office of pastors reserved for a man, and we believe that's the biblical qualifications. So we know when we're hiring a man for the role of a pastor, we're not hiring his wife, but. Saying that does not mean that our wives don't have responsibilities placed on them. That's right. And you've brought up a huge part of that. And I think I would say the same for my wife and also I know that the same is true for Kristen as well. Pastor Rod's wife. Our wives really enable us to go and do the ministry that we need to do. And God has gifted all of us on this staff and that's. One of the things that we consider when we're thinking about bringing a man on for ministry, and that's one of the biblical qualifications too, is that he manages his household well. That's right. That he has a wife that's a believer. That's that's a huge thing for having a strong pastoral staff. And if this is your church, if comes to Bible church in north Texas is your church, just know that you have not only. I trust solid pastors in place but their wives are a huge part of that, and all of us have great wives. So Julia is certainly no exception to that. And she's not only doing this, but also has a young baby boy now that is new to the family, Warren is here. Not little. Nope. Not a little boy at all. He's he's a baby. Yeah. He's grown two inches since he was born. He's two months old. It's crazy. He's grown two inches. It's crazy. And he is close to 18 pounds. He's dunking a basketball palming it I saw the other day. That's right. That's right. Yeah. The recruiters are out looking to pick him up. That's also mean. Scholarships are huge. That, especially in ministry like you, he, if you can get your kids scholarships, get 'em scholarships. Hey, let's jump into our DBR today. We are in the book of Habakkuk, and if you were with us during our minor profit series, this is one of the ones that I preach because it doesn't start with a Z. And so we, I won't give you grief for that. Thanks, man. I appreciate that. I did myself I sold myself out on that one. But still, no, this is such a good book and it's, I think I said when I preached it and I stand by this, probably my favorite of the minor prophets. It's a book that's unique because it's not Habakkuk and anyone else other than Habakkuk and God, and it's a glimpse into the mindset of the prophet. And so this is a good reminder to us that our leaders are mere men. And and that's so good for you to be aware of, even as we've just been talking about the fact that we're thankful for strong pastors at our church. It's good that you remember that we are simply men. We're fallen men at that. And Habakkuk here is a reminder to us that sometimes even those that are given the responsibility to be the mouthpiece of God, to be the Oracles of God. And that's not our responsibility. We're just here to herald the already completed word of God. Habakkuk was, God was putting his words in Habakkuk's mouth. And and Habakkuk is a guy that struggled and he does. So in this opening of Habakkuk one, the book just three chapters, not super long, but Habakkuk one, he's gonna be sitting there saying, God, what are you doing? I'm looking around seeing that this world is going to hell in a hand basket, that there's evil all over the place, that it looks like you're not doing anything. And God responds to him in chapter one saying, oh, Habakkuk buckle up. I'm doing something. I'm bringing Babylon. And Habakkuk, again the glimpse into you expect this man of God to be like, okay, I trust you. I'm gonna sit down and just ride this out. But still again, we see Habakkuk's internal struggle again, one of the reasons why I love this book, 'cause he says, God, you can't do that. And and says you're of eyes that are too pure to look on evil. How can you use such a wicked nation to do this? And he even says at the end of chapter one, beginning of chapter two, I'm gonna stand here and watch to see what you're gonna say. I'm gonna, I'm gonna take my position. And it seems like it's a little bit of a, an impetuous man standing there going, okay, God, what are you gonna do? Because he even says that I'm gonna think about what my answer's gonna be concerning this. You're gonna respond to me, but I'm gonna, I'm gonna already be formulating my answer. And then in the rest of chapter two, God unpacks, Habakkuk. You need to understand that I see things in a way that you don't understand them, and justice will be done. Justice is gonna be done in how I judge Israel. Justice is gonna be done in how I judge Babylon for their crimes against Israel too. And then the book ends with Habakkuk casting himself on the Lord, trusting the Lord. This great prayer where he just goes through the way that God has been so faithful to his people, the phenomenal statement that he has there in your wrath. Remember mercy it's such a good picture of a man who's gotten the picture Now he understands now. And the final concluding paragraph of the book is just one of the most just thorough statements of trust in God that you're gonna find anywhere in the scriptures. Basically, he's saying in an. Apocalyptic landscape still, Lord, I will trust you no matter what. So that's the general thrust of Habakkuk. Pastor Mark some of your thoughts on on this book. Yeah. How far do you think you can take complaints? We see other places like Job where God specifically condemns job for his complaint, and we don't see that here obviously. The Lord is answering Habakkuk, but we don't see him criticizing him for anything that he said or his complaint itself. Is there a line where we go from a complaint that, that God is graciously gonna answer to one that he may still answer, but. Might be offended in, in, in some sense in the right understanding of that word. Where it's inappropriate to approach God in that way. Is there a line? Yeah. Yeah. It's a great question. Great observation. I think the reason we don't see God chastising Habakkuk in that same sense, or judging or condemning Habakkuk, is because Habakkuk's concern the whole way through seems to be for the character of God as opposed to other situations where we see it's more about the person like job. By the time that Joe really begins to cross the line and take more of a sinful attitude towards the Lord, which is a progression. He doesn't have that at the beginning, but he eventually gets there. Joe becomes. Self-focused. It's about him. It's a pity party for job. And you look at job and you're like, okay, I get it. Your life is I wouldn't want your life. And so I understand how you can get there. I think when we read Habakkuk, Habakkuk, even in his rebuttal to God is still concerned with God's character. He's saying, God, you shouldn't do this because you are of two eyes that are too pure to look on evil. And so I, even though I think Habakkuk is a bit impetuous. I do think his concern is the, is in the right place. He's concerned for the character of God. Yeah. And I think some of it too is the heart behind this. We, throughout the Psalms, David often making complaints. You think about a place like, like Psalm 13 where he, you directly ask How long, oh Lord, will you forget me forever? But we see throughout the Psalms, it's. David being truthful about how he feels and the struggles that he's actually having. But his heart always returns back to, to like at the end of chapter 13 of Sal Psalms 13, he says, I will sing to the Lord because he has dealt bountifully with me. And you see the same thing going on with Habak, right? Yeah. Towards the end of this book, right? As you mentioned, there's really a beautiful statement about. What's true about God. And so I think there's a heart matter that, that you can approach these things and be honest. Yeah. But as long, you also have to be honest about what you know to be true about God. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Habakkuk is a book that reminds us that none of us are fully baked. He is learning that here you have the prophet of God learning in these three chapters and we get a bird's eye view to see that as he's learning more about the character of God. And that should encourage you out there, that, that. It's okay if you're in a place where you're going, man I feel like I, there's so much about God I don't understand. Join the club. Habak was there too and had to be brought along and Habakkuk had the advantage even of having God converse with him. We pray to God and God responds to our prayers, but differently than he did Habakkuk. So if we're here today and we're looking around going, okay, God, I. I'm looking at the abortion rates. I'm looking at, same sex marriage. I'm looking at all these same things. I could say a lot of what Habakkuk does, even though our, there's some good signs of things turning around a little bit in our nation, we can still point to plenty of things and say there's evil all around God. What are you doing? God is not going to audibly say, okay, pastor Mark, here's what I'm doing. I'm doing this. Buckle up. But we do have passages like this that can inform us. Habakkuk's a great book for us. Right now as you're looking around going, God, would you really use something like what's going on up in Minnesota with the the refugees that were originally refugees that are now so fast and populous that they've got somebody that they're pushing into political office up in Minnesota. Same thing going on in New York City with the mayor. And we're sitting here going, God, would you really turn this nation over into the hands of the Muslims? And we read a book like Habakkuk and we're reminded, okay, the Bill of Rights is not the Biblical Bill of Rights. That's right. Yeah. It's part of our constitution. We're thankful for it, but man, there's no guarantee that God won't take this nation and judge it. We need to be able to read a book like Habak and walk away like he does at the end, saying, Lord, if you do everything, if you shatter this country, you know what we're gonna, we're gonna trust in you we're gonna pray that you don't do this. We're gonna pray for revival. We're gonna pray against the spread of evil, but man, we're gonna trust you nonetheless. Habakkuk is such a good book for us in that regard. Yeah. So how do we deal with the fact that God is sovereign in these ways? He is taking. Responsibility for raising up the Chaldeans in this response to Habakkuk. How do we begin to think about that, right? Because God is sovereign over what's happening in New York and in Minnesota. And. In Ukraine and all these different places where there are evil actors. How do we start to think about that in a way that, that, that's helpful. Yeah. I would say no matter where, what we have to approach this with humility we talked about this during our shepherding meeting on Friday a little bit. That's part of the reason I'm bringing it up. Totally. Yeah. And I, yeah, appreciate you bringing that up because we didn't have a good answer at that meeting and I don't know that we're gonna have one that's satisfactory now. I thought you would have one by now. I worked on it all weekend. I still could not resolve it. Man it's, we. 100% affirm God's complete sovereignty over mankind. And that is something that I will go to my grave on. I just, you cannot escape that. God is sovereign and God ordains everything that takes place, which means that he's even sovereign over and ordaining over the evil that takes place. Even we read in the prophets recently you ordained calamity, right? That's the word, rah, in Hebrew, which is the word evil. And yet. Like we've talked about on the salvation side of things, it's saying it's true over here as well. Man is entirely responsible for his own wicked deeds and evil acts. And so sometimes in theology, in theological circles, you'll hear about the immediate cause and the proximate cause or the primary cause and the secondary cause. And so the primary cause being Nebuchadnezzar, in this case in Babylon and the wicked that they're per carrying out perpetrating. The secondary cause being God's ordaining that to take place. And some will do that because it removes God from the immediate culpability of things that are carrying out the thing that we have to confess. And this is where humility has to kick in. God is a hundred percent sovereign over everything that takes place in the world, and yet God can never be charged with sin. And we know that scripture teaches both of those realities. And the outworking of that is, is really difficult to figure out. For sure. Yeah. I would summarize it. By saying God's relationship to evil is indirect and permissive, and that's uncomfortable. But what I'm, what I mean by that is God is not directly, and this is echoing what you already said, but God is not. The author, that word is often used. He's not the author of sin. He's not the one who is committing sin. But he also is sovereign over it and part of his intention and plan for creation, whether or not we can resolve that tension in our own minds. We do know that he permitted Satan to fall. He permitted Adam to fall. And does that mean that he likes sin? No, certainly not. And we know that from scripture, but we also have to wrestle with the fact that there's some. Yeah, there is some elements that we could look at and understand as God being responsible for sin. I'm gonna use the words indirect and permissive as opposed to direct and applauding or direct and willing. Yeah, it's so difficult and this just, this is giving you a glimpse into those of you guys listening, just how complicated and messy this all gets because. I agree with you. There's the permissive will of God and there's the decreed will of God and our desired will of God versus decreed will of God. And it's, you get into some of the New Testament language that, for example, Peter uses in the Book of Acts when he is preaching about the crucifixion of Jesus. And it's hard to get away from the fact that I think Jesus or God the father, was ordaining the steps of Judas in the betrayal of Jesus, right? I don't think he was just permitting Judas to betray. Jesus, I think he was saying, Judas, this is what you're gonna do. You're gonna go betray Jesus. And that was all part of his perfect and sovereign plan. Yeah, again, this just gets into just how messy this trying to understand this is. And where we get into trouble is sometimes where we need, where we try to draw. Thick borders where the Bible doesn't allow us to do that. And when we try to compartmentalize and fit God into our rational boxes, a lot of heresy has been committed over the course of history when people have tried to fit God in rational boxes. And it's just a reminder that can frustrate us or comfort us, and it can comfort us in this way. If I can explain everything there is to explain about God, then God is simply a figment of my imagination. I've created him. But if there's things about God that I can't fully explain that I can't. Totally come to grips with it's a reminder that he's God and I'm not, and I'd add a third layer to that. If there are those things that exist and you still believe in him, then that's an another reminder that God has been at work in your heart to open your eyes to see the truth of his word, and to see the truth of Christ. 'cause there's a lot about it that would otherwise cause you to throw up your hands and give up and say I'm done. I don't want anything to do with this. Yeah. And based on that. If that's where we are, then we can, as Habakkuk does, we can weep over evil, right? We can be distressed when we see evil. We can rightly understand that and we should, even in its proper place in the Christian life, we should fight evil in the public setting. We should be advocates for truth and for justice. Even when. Even when we live in a world full of evil and ultimately we need hope in the coming of Christ when these evils will be completely undone and justice will be served. Yeah, for sure. For sure. Let me pray and we will be done with this episode. God, we are grateful for just pastors on this team, thankful for Pastor Mark being able to jump on and record with us as pastor Rod's out and not able to be in here. And thank you for his wisdom and the education that you've given to him and just the life experience, his insight into the scriptures we're. Grateful for that. We're thankful for the book of aba. That is such a good reminder to us of these things that we've been talking about. We readily confess and admit our finitude that we can't wrap our minds around the way that you work and the way that you orchestrate and ordain things. And I'm sure even in eternity it's going to be a long time of us trying to understand. How you operated and the way that you did things and why you did things the way that, that you did things. And yet we'll get to have that time with you, which is really cool. And we do know a few things. We know that you are good. We know that you are sovereign, and we know that all that you do in perfect accordance with your will. And because of that, we will trust you and we will always trust you, even when we can't necessarily see what you're doing, even as Habakkuk concluded there. So we pray that this book would be useful in our lives and that we would apply it as appropriate. We pray this in Jesus' name. Amen. Keep your new Bible tuning again tomorrow for another edition of the Daily Bible Podcast. Bye bye.

Well, thank you for listening to another episode of the Daily Bible Podcast, folks! We're honored to have you join us. This is a ministry of Compass Bible Church in north Texas. You can find out more information about our Church at compassntx.org. We would love for you to leave a review, to rate, or to share this podcast on whatever platform you're listening on, and we hope to see you again tomorrow for another episode of the Daily Bible Podcast. Ya'll come back now, ya hear?

Yeah. I would agree with everything that you said