Sarah Perugia (she/her): Sarah,

welcome

to

the

whole

truth

leadership

stories

with

me.

Sarah

Perugia,

I'm a

passionate

women

in

leadership

coach,

whole

person,

leadership

transformation

specialist

and

keynote

speaker.

And

in

this

first

series

of

the

podcast,

I'm

speaking

to

women

on a

mission,

wonderful

female

leaders

who

are

working

to

make

positive

change.

In

these

fantastic

conversations,

we're

going

to

explore

all

kinds

of

things

such

as

core

values

and

strengths,

passions,

purpose,

challenge,

hard

won

lessons,

and

of

course,

will

take

some

time

to

celebrate

success

too.

I

hope

you'll

get

inspired

by

these

amazing

women

and

love

listening

to

them

tell

their

stories.

So if

you're

a

leader

or an

aspiring

leader

looking

to

connect

with

values

driven

inclusive,

inspirational

leaders,

get

inspired

by

them

and

learn

from

them,

then

this

podcast

is

for

you.

I am

absolutely

delighted

to be

welcoming

Siri

susaloo

to

the

podcast

today.

Siri

is an

inspirational

female

leader,

and I

know

this

because

I've

known

her

for

many

years,

and

I've

seen

her,

through

her

career,

inspire

other

women

navigate

with

grace

and

humor.

At

the

moment,

Siri

is

Vice

President

of

Design

at

Hugo

women's

wear,

and

she

is

blazing

a

trail

in a

very

male

dominated

industry.

She's

currently

responsible

for

the

creative

direction

and

product

strategy

at

Hugo

red

and

blue

premium

women's

wear.

And

Siri

is an

inspiration

to so

many

women

in

the

business.

I

know

this

because

I

speak

to

them

and

they

tell

me

all

about

it.

She's

not

only

navigated

her

own

path,

but

she

lifts

other

women

up,

she

mentors

them,

she

supports

them,

she

advocates

for

them,

and

she's

brilliant

at

creating

a

positive

team

culture

where

the

next

generation

of

female

leaders

can

thrive

and

fulfill

their

potential.

Siri,

I

know

you're

a

really

values

driven

leader,

and

you're

always

full

of

energy.

My

first

question

to

you

is,

what

drives

you

as a

leader?

First

of

all,

thank

you

for

that

beautiful

introduction.

Sarah,

bit

emotional

was

lovely.

What

drives

me as

a

leader?

I

love

there's

two

things

really.

I

love

to

see

people

flourish,

loving

their

job.

Enjoy

their

job.

I

love

people.

I

love

communicating.

Above

all,

you

know,

I

love

fashion.

I

love

the

industry

we

work

in.

And

what

drives

me as

a

leader

is,

you

know,

I'm

just

so

passionate

about

that

product

journey,

that

leadership

journey.

I

think,

if

you

know,

seeing

that

positivity

when

you

lead

a

team

and

what

they

create

through

that

amazing

communication,

through

the

ways

of

working,

and

how

you

can

inspire

people

to be

the

best

they

can

be. I

think

that's

that's

really

driven

me

throughout

my

career,

just

really

enjoying

the

people

you're

around

as

well.

I

think

that's

one

big

thing.

You

know,

we're

in

the

fashion

industry.

Ultimately,

we're

not

saving

lives.

So

for

me,

it's

about,

you

know,

we

should

enjoy

what

we're

doing

together,

and

we

should

be

able

to

empower

everybody

around

us,

so

that,

I

think

that's

really

what

drives

me.

Sarah,

Sarah Perugia (she/her): Mm,

yeah,

absolutely

brilliant

answer.

And

what

I'm

hearing

is a

whole

combination

of

different

parts

of

who

you

are

there,

Siri,

and

that

actually

leads

me to

my

next

question,

because

I

know

that

your

parents

are

creative.

I

know

that

you

come

from

a

creative

background,

and

through

the

many

conversations

that

you

and I

have

had,

I

know

that

you're

a

brilliant

strategist,

and

that,

you

know,

you

hold

that

senior

strategic

position

in a

global

brand.

So

tell

me a

bit

about

that

journey

from

creative

to

strategic

leader.

Well,

first

of

all,

just

starting

with

my

parents

being

creative,

they

did

not

want

me to

go

into

the

no

they,

you

know,

my

mom

was a

director,

very

kind

of

male

dominated

situation.

And

she

said,

You

know,

I

just

want

to

protect

my

lovely

child,

and

it's

a

very

dog

eat

dog

world.

Of

course,

my

love

for

fashion

and

arts

culture

took

over.

And

from

a

very

young

age,

I

knew

that

this

was

the

industry

for

me

and

that

I

wanted

to go

to

university.

I

wanted

to

study

fashion.

This

was

something

I

definitely

wanted

to

do.

And I

think

then

the

evolution

of my

career,

like

I

love

being

a

creative

but

as I

grew

through

my

career,

I

slowly

understood

that

what

was

giving

me

more

joy

was

actually

nurturing

the

next

generation,

nurturing

the

people

around

me,

giving

back.

And I

got

to a

point

where

I.

You

know,

I

really,

I

enjoyed,

kind

of

the

overseeing

part

of

the

creative

side,

and

seeing

the

next

generation

come

through

the

ranks

and

then

take

on

that

more

strategic

leadership

role

where

I had

more

of a

kind

of

holistic

view.

And I

think,

you

know,

as I

say,

I

really,

I'm

so

passionate

about

being

a

leader,

and,

you

know,

encouraging

that

next

generation.

And

that's

really

what

kind

of

drives

me

now,

makes

me

happy,

and I

think

that

strategic

side

as

well.

I

think

a lot

of

people

think,

oh,

creatives,

you

know,

they

can't

read

numbers,

they

can't

do

this.

They

can't

a big

part

of my

job

is

about,

you

know,

margins,

prices,

numbers,

collection,

sizes,

you

know,

is

the

commercial

side.

So

really,

what

I

would

say

is,

you

know,

stepping

away

from

the

creative

side,

a

little

bit,

that

is

the

fun

bit.

So

enjoy

that,

if

that

is

what

you

love

to

do.

But

actually,

I'm

one

of

these

strange

people

who

actually

really

a

creative

shall

I

say,

that

loves

the

number

side,

that

loves

seeing,

kind

of

the

evolution

of

product.

Love

seeing

the

product

sell

and

seeing

brand

progress

like

that,

really,

really

kind

of

gives

me a

lot

of,

you

know,

passionate

like

gives

me a

lot

of

passion.

Put

it

that

way,

yeah,

Sarah Perugia (she/her): yeah.

How

exciting.

And

you

know,

definitely

I see

that

in

the

conversations

that

we

have,

your

your

love

of

the

visual,

your

love

of

the

product,

and

your

passion

for

seeing

that

progression,

for

seeing

that

success.

One

of

the

things

that

I

have

learned

a lot

about

in

our

relationship

Siri

is is

the

culture

of

the

fashion

industry,

and

hearing

about

your

experiences

and

spoken

to

many

other

women

now

over

the

years.

And

one

of

the

things

that

has

surprised

me,

and I

think

surprises

a lot

of

people,

is

that

it's

a

male

dominated

industry.

We

kind

of

expect

it,

don't

we

from

medicine

or

tech,

and

yet,

actually

within

fashion,

what

I'm

hearing

is

that

it's

still

male

dominated.

So

what

I'd

love

to

know

is a

little

bit

about

how

you

would

describe

your

experience

of

being

in

the

minority

in

that

senior

position

in

the

industry

and

and

whether

you've

experienced

gender

bias.

Yeah.

I

mean,

first

of

all,

I

think

there

is

this.

Everyone

thinks,

you

know,

because

of

fashion

University,

the

majority

of

people

going

through

universities

are

like

female.

Actually,

the

minority

is

usually

male.

So it

is

really

interesting

that

when

it

gets

to

leadership

side,

that

changes

so

drastically.

And I

think,

don't

quote

me on

this,

but I

think

it's

something

like

25%

of

leadership

positions

in

our

in

the

fashion

industry

are

taken

up by

women

only

25

and I

think

across,

I

think

internationally,

I

think

it's

something

like

15%

make

it to

kind

of

CEO

positions

like,

it's

really,

really

small.

So I

think

for

me,

you

know,

I've

been

lucky

to

have

a lot

of

supportive

colleagues,

male

colleagues

as

well

female

colleagues

around

me. I

have,

of

course,

experienced

bias

in my

time,

and I

think

as a

woman,

I

think

I've

had

to

really,

I

always

feel

like

I

have

to

give

180%

or

more.

I

think

partly

that's

ingrained

in my

DNA,

don't

get

me

wrong,

but I

think

there

is

this

pressure

to

be,

to be

the

best

you

know,

when

you're

in

such

a

competitive,

competitive

environment

and

know

more

and

to be

more

prepared

all

of

these

things,

you

know,

I

think

make

me

the

best

leader

I am,

and

also

an

incredible

colleague

to

work

around,

hopefully.

But I

think

it is

really

difficult,

both

being

in a

leadership

position

and a

mother

as

well,

because,

you

know

these

situations,

and

especially,

I

suppose,

you

know,

I

work

in

Hugo

Boss

at

the

moment,

and

it's

a

male

obviously,

it's

quite

male

orientated

product,

but

also

kind

of

male

oriented

in

terms

of

leadership.

And I

have

really

supportive

male

colleagues,

but I

am

quite

often

a

minority

when

it

comes

to a

creative

lead.

Because,

of

course,

the

men's

side

of

the

business

is at

present.

One

day,

maybe

women's

will

take

over,

but

at

present

the

bigger

side.

So to

get

the

understanding

of

women's

wear,

first

of

all,

and

also

kind

of my

my

angle

for

leadership,

the

way I

lead,

I

think

is is

kind

of

different.

I'm

very

empathetic

in

the

way I

do

things.

I'm

very

fair.

I'm

not

hierarchical

in

any

way.

And I

think

sometimes

that

can

be

quite

rare,

and I

think

that's

kind

of

what

women

bring

to

the

table.

Leadership

wise,

is a

different

point

of

view.

So I

think

what's

great

is we

I

encourage,

you

know,

I

think

I've

got

some

amazing

male

colleagues,

and,

you

know,

I

encourage

them

to

look

at

things

differently

often,

and I

do

that

in a

very

positive,

emotionally

intelligent

way.

It's

not

that

we

all

agree

all

the

time,

but

I. I

try

to

always

do

the

best

and

empower

people

to

see

other

people's

point

of

view,

like

I

feel

I'm

somebody

who

doesn't

really

have

an

ego.

So I

think

that

has

helped

me in

my

career,

that

I

will

always

listen

to

people

and

always

listen

to

their

point

of

view.

So in

terms

of

the

bias,

I

think

it is

difficult,

because

there

is a

bias,

kind

of

against

women's

wear,

because

it's

a

smaller

part

of a

business.

And

also

there

are

very

few

creative

leaders

who

are

women

in

this

business.

So I

suppose

I

have

to,

kind

of

often

act a

little

bit

differently.

I

have

to

maybe

mold

myself

a

little

bit

to

the

ways

of

working

of

male

colleagues.

So

it's,

yeah,

it's

just

an

interesting

dynamic,

shall

we

say,

but I

find

my

way,

and I

think

we

learn

from

each

other.

Put

it

that

way,

and

are

Sarah Perugia (she/her): there

any

particular

behaviors

that

you

think

you

have

shifted

in

any

of

your

male

colleagues,

anything

that

that

they

were

doing

previously,

and

through

your

emotionally

intelligent,

gracious

way,

you've

shifted

their

behavior

to

have

a

different

leadership

style.

Yeah,

it's

interesting,

actually,

because

one

of my

male

colleagues

the

other

day

we

got

really

well,

he

actually

phones

me

after

kind

of an

email

conversation

going

on

across

some

senior

leaders.

And

he

said,

I am

going

to

start

emailing

the

way

you

do.

He's

like,

it's

so

constructive.

You

always

get

what

you

want.

You

start

with

this

kind

of

really

lovely,

kind

of

finding

out

about

how

that

person

is

really

lovely

approach,

you

know,

caring

which

I am

genuinely.

Then

he's

like,

then

the

firm

Siri

comes

out,

and

it's

like,

this

is

what

I

need.

This

is

what

I

want.

This

is

what

I

need

you

to

meet,

to

deliver

to

me.

And

these

are

the

answers

I

need.

And

then

you

go

back

to

Siri.

Hope

you

have

a

great

weekend

or

evening,

or,

you

know,

the

softness

and

the

human

side

comes

out

again.

And

you

know

what

he

was

saying

to me

was,

it's

really

interesting,

because

he

will

just

go in

strong.

He

would

have

just

done

that

middle

part

and,

like,

I

need

these

answers,

and

just

taking

that

kind

of

like,

that

approach,

he

was

like,

I

think

you

get

much

more

out

of

it.

Siri,

start

doing

it in

that

way.

That's

just

one

example.

And

it

was

really

interesting,

and

it

was

really

nice

that

he

fed

that

back,

because

he

said,

you

know,

often,

I

think

with

male

colleagues,

they

go

straight

in,

and

it's

can

be a

slightly

more,

you

know,

not

always,

but

just

a

very

direct

approach.

And

don't

get

me

wrong,

if

things

need

to be

done,

I can

take

that

direct

approach,

but I

always

feel

kind

of

being

human

first

is

much