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Jacob Shapiro: Hello listeners.

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Welcome back to Geopolitical Cousins.

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This is part one of the Trade
Value Leader Index column,

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whatever you want to call it.

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Uh, Marco and I bring our top 30 leaders.

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We go back and forth.

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Part two will be digesting
the list and arguing about

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whether we were right or wrong.

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Uh, please, we want your feedback.

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Email me at jacob@jacobshapiro.com
or uh, marco@geopoliticalalpha.com.

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Or you can, you know, if you just do me,
I'll also make sure that Marco is CC'd.

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We want your feedback on this list.

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It'll be controversial.

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We want the controversy.

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It's great.

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Um, take care of the people you love.

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Cheers and see you out there.

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Marko Papic: Finally, after, uh, a
long delay due to well life reality,

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Israel, Iran, all that stuff.

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Uh, we are finally going to do
a trade value, um, list for.

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Basically global leaders, so this
is based on as many things of our

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podcast are on the, uh, bill Simmons
podcast and he does this NBA trade

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value list where he basically looks
at the top 50 players in the NBA and

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tries to establish their trade value.

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This is, this doesn't mean who's the
best player in the world, it's just

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that who would you trade for who?

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So the player that's number one on
this list would be UNT Tradeable.

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Effectively, if any team called
you and said, Hey, we want.

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This guy, you would say?

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No.

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Um, now that's a combination of age
of salary and skill because of course,

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somebody who's like, let's say 39 years
old and extremely good, but paid a bunch

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of money, may not be that UNT tradable.

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Uh, similarly, somebody who's ranked
10th on this list, it would mean

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that everybody ranked one to nine.

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You would absolutely trade that
player, uh, for those top nine.

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So in the context of politics, it
means that, let's say that the prime

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minister of your country that you
live in is ranked 23rd on our list.

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You would absolutely.

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Drive your prime Minister to the
airport, pack your bag and ship

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them for anyone above, right?

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So that's, that's kind
of what we're doing here.

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Um, now a couple of things I wanna say,
uh, before we start as an introduction.

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First of all, I'm a big believer
in the Warren Buffet quote.

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Uh, I try to invest in businesses that
are so wonderful that an idiot can

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run them sooner or later, one will.

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And so, um, I think both you and I,
Jacob, I think we agree that fundamentally

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our framework for thinking about
geopolitics is that we try to invest

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in countries that are so wonderful that
an idiot can run them because sooner

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or later one will so replace company
with country and, and you get, uh, a

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little bit of a taste of what we do.

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So this is kind of unnatural in a
way because I think that our, um.

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You know, you and I both kind of have a
bias to maybe de-emphasize leadership.

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Me maybe more than you, doesn't matter.

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The point is, we're doing this for fun.

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Okay.

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This is cool.

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It's fun.

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We're gonna get to rank
politicians around the world.

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I mean, that's kind of cool.

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The other thing I wanna say is
that this is not necessarily

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just about current performance, I
think it's also about the future.

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So we're, we're projecting and
that's what the trade value that

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Bill Simmons does with basketball
players is also about the future.

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That's why he will often rank
younger players higher than those

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who are already mature and have
already sort of been priced in.

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Jacob Shapiro: Yeah, that was actually,
I thought that was the hardest part of

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developing my own list was thinking about
like, the future of different leaders.

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'cause if it's just like you're
trading one for today, it's like

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that's a different conversation
than sort of, uh, the future.

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So I'm, I'm curious to
see where we land on that.

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Marko Papic: Okay.

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A couple of more things that I wanna say.

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Four points I wanna make before
we start just to orient ourselves.

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Uh, first of all, we are trying to.

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Rank policymakers across
different countries.

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Right.

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And so when I kind of floated this idea
to a bunch of my friends I respect,

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they say, well, that's impossible.

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You know, running Greece is such
an incredibly different job from

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running the United States of America.

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So how can you possibly compare,
um, prime Minister Mitsa with,

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you know, president Trump?

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What we're assuming here is that
there is something inherent about

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leadership, something truly universal.

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And of course, Machiavelli wrote
the Prince specifically to elucidate

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some of those universal qualities.

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It wasn't just about how to be a good
prince in Italy, in an Italian city state,

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although he did have chapters at the
end, kind of tucked in later about that.

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Mm-hmm.

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It was really about something
that's inherent to being a leader

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of other men and women in a country.

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So our primary definition here
of a successful policymaker is

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somebody who takes on the material
constraints of their context and

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sees to successfully overcome them.

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So this is about bending
time space altering reality.

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And this is very unnatural to me, Jacob,
because I'm such a hard nosed believer

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that ultimately material constraints
matter so much more than anything else.

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And I'm basically arguing here.

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I wanna pick those leaders
who, uh, take those material

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constraints and overcome them.

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Second, it also means that small country
policy makers may have an advantage here.

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They will often be the ones
that have more, obviously,

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overcome their disadvantages.

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And you'll see that certainly in my list.

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I dunno if that was the case with yours.

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Um, I don't know if you, you
potentially found that as well.

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And by the way, we don't know each
other's list, so this is probably

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going to be a complete shit show.

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Just to be clear.

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Like I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm guessing we
will have no alignment, at least, at

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least Bill Simmons is using statistics,
you know, when he says this basketball

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player averages this or that he knows
how much the contracts are and so on

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Jacob Shapiro: third, well, no,
but I, I listened to your prompt.

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You had a couple of things that I
needed to keep in mind, so I bet

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We'll, I bet we'll land closer
than you think, but I mean, I,

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Marko Papic: I hope so.

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I hope so.

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So let's go through that prompt.

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Uh, we have a loose hierarchy of
how we measure one's performance.

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So this is like statistics
for a basketball player,

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uh, that Bill Simmons uses.

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Here's what we're using, first
approval rating by the public.

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It's kind of like po uh, points per game.

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It's, it's a little bit
of an empty calorie stat.

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You know, you can, you can
have good stats on a bad team.

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Um, populists obviously have great.

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Popularity early in their term because
they're giving candy to the people.

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Nonetheless, we all believe that on
some level, uh, the median voter is

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wise and, uh, well, at least I do.

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I know Jacob less so, uh,

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Jacob Shapiro: yes.

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I think the median voter is a moron.

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I I'll take that position
against you every time.

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Marko Papic: Such a, that's maybe
the only thing where you are

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more elitist than I am, you know,
so, uh, but that's interesting.

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The second is, come at be

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Jacob Shapiro: median voters.

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I think you're all idiots.

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I will take the house against all of you.

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Marko Papic: We need the median voter to
reach escape velocity on this podcast.

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Economic performance.

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Economic performance of the country is the
next, I mean, you know, it's objective.

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We can measure it again, it can be
juiced up by populace, but we're

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trying to do our best, uh, especially
relative to the peers by the way.

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That's where it matters.

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Geopolitical performance in terms of
building alliances, projecting power,

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navigating a complicated neighborhood,
staying sidestepping, landmines that are

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out there, choosing China versus America,
trying to balance them, that's important.

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Finally, military performance
could be in there too.

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Uh, that could be critical for some
leaders like Bibi and Zelensky.

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However, I think it's very diff
difficult to personalize that.

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I'm not sure to what extent they're
actually doing anything on the front

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lines, so just keep that in mind.

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Uh, finally, I just wanna remind everyone,
the whole point of this is very simple.

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Would you trade this
leader for somebody else?

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That's, that's the point.

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Uh, if you are in a particular
country, who would you trade?

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The person who leads your
country for someone else.

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Now, finally, uh, last setup before we go
into it, we have, um, I think it's, uh,

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well, 30, we're gonna do a list of 30,
and we have several categories, uh, that

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we're gonna try to smush our leaders in.

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Uh, first of all, the bottom rank.

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And by the way, if you're
in the top 30, you're good.

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So I don't wanna hear anyone complaining
like, oh, you made so and so number 28.

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Yeah, there's like 190 sovereign
countries in the world, right?

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Like, if you are on our list,
you're not doing poorly.

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So the, the bottom part of our list,
we call it product of a system or a

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situation, you know, is this somebody
who's just like, I mean, clearly

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the, the, the country's doing well.

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But we're not sure if we should
really give them the credit.

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So that's why they are
in this bottom line.

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Then we go to flawed, but effective,
I felt like we should have a category

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for those leaders who have some
problems with their track record, like

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human rights, you know, like, ugh,
this is one of those like, ugh, like

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sections, but they're still effective.

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So that's, that's that one.

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Then we have some unproven
gems that wanted a category.

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This is where like, you know, they're,
they, they look like they're really

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good, but it's too early to tell,
uh, that diamonds under pressure,

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miracle workers, these are leaders that
are really taking their country and

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massively outperforming expectations.

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Uh, then UNT tradable unless, right,
so these are leaders that you would

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not trade unless somebody called
you from the top five or top six or

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however many you have, which is, I.
I'm hanging up the phone right now.

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That's the last category.

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That means that if you had a
chance to trade these and somebody

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calls you and says, Hey, can we
take this number one policymaker?

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Uh, you would say No.

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Hanging up the phone.

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Okay.

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Jacob.

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I think that's, that's it, right?

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Jacob Shapiro: I think
you did a great job.

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We we're also gonna do some
honorable mentions, uh, too, right?

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To start people that were on the, on the
bubble, but didn't quite make the list.

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Marko Papic: Well, let's
do that at the end.

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Oh,

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Jacob Shapiro: you wanna do it at the end?

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Okay.

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I thought we would go bottomed up,
but we can do it at the end too.

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That's fine.

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Yeah,

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Marko Papic: yeah.

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Just, just because, you know, then
you get a chance to explain why

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some of those honorable mentions
didn't make it on the list, right?

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Jacob Shapiro: Yeah, yeah, you're right.

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And that, that way we don't give away, uh,
some that are not gonna be on the list.

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So, I'm with you.

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I'm with you.

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Marko Papic: Alright, cool.

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So first I'm gonna start off with this,
uh, with my, I actually, uh, so Jacob,

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uh, in these categories, I ended up
doing just five each, you know, so

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there's six categories, five each.

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Uh, but if you didn't,
that's co totally cool.

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Uh, we're gonna start off with
products of a system in a situation.

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Um, first I wanna shout out
to Finland and Switzerland.

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Uh, they're well run places
that don't really seem to

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need anybody to be in charge.

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Uh, I would've loved to put the president
of the Swiss configuration onto this

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list, but they change it every year,
and so it doesn't really matter.

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Switzerland just chucks along and
perhaps because Switzerland is such a

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well run place, and yet nobody really
knows who's in charge of it, perhaps.

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That more than anything illustrates
the complete vacuous of this effort.

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You know, Switzerland has solved the
problem by not needing anybody to lead it.

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But anyways, uh, the 26 to 30 in no
particular order, but I'm gonna start

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from the last Donald task of Poland.

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Luca Doche at 29 of Slovenia.

229
00:11:25,755 --> 00:11:28,215
Oh, I'm sorry, I, sorry, my bad.

230
00:11:28,575 --> 00:11:31,275
Robert Goup of Slovenia at 29.

231
00:11:31,785 --> 00:11:36,165
Lawrence Wong of Singapore at 28,
although he could have also been in the

232
00:11:36,165 --> 00:11:42,675
two new, two fresh, uh, to know too soon
to tell category, uh, OLF Christen of

233
00:11:42,675 --> 00:11:45,225
Sweden and met f Fredrickson of Denmark.

234
00:11:45,225 --> 00:11:50,685
So as you can see, a lot of
advanced OECD sort of wealthy

235
00:11:50,685 --> 00:11:53,205
places that are just well run.

236
00:11:53,385 --> 00:11:57,645
I can't tell if it's the leadership
or not the case for Donald Tusk.

237
00:11:57,735 --> 00:12:01,845
Cover of the Economist, probably
k Poland's kind of riding high.

238
00:12:02,610 --> 00:12:04,560
You know, there's a lot
of Poland hype out there.

239
00:12:05,010 --> 00:12:09,300
Um, I think I have a gut feeling
he's a Superior Commission president,

240
00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,030
then president of Poland, uh,
then Prime Minister of Poland.

241
00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,220
Um, but that's just me.

242
00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:16,440
Why did I put Slovenia here?

243
00:12:16,680 --> 00:12:17,550
Just crushing it.

244
00:12:17,730 --> 00:12:19,110
Goop came out of nowhere.

245
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:23,730
Um, new movement, kind of the Emmanuel
Macron of Slovenia has done really well.

246
00:12:24,060 --> 00:12:27,270
Popularity is down a little bit,
but, uh, generally the economy

247
00:12:27,270 --> 00:12:30,000
and Slovenia are doing extremely
well in their neighborhood.

248
00:12:30,450 --> 00:12:35,190
Lauren Swang, uh, you know,
has been in power really since

249
00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:37,170
May 20, 24, so not that new.

250
00:12:37,770 --> 00:12:43,170
His speech after April 2nd, uh, tariff
announcement was probably the best

251
00:12:43,260 --> 00:12:46,950
pushback and you would not have expected
that to come from Singapore, which

252
00:12:47,250 --> 00:12:49,110
usually tries to have a low profile.

253
00:12:49,440 --> 00:12:49,890
Um.

254
00:12:51,255 --> 00:12:54,135
Speech against those tariffs
was really, really impassioned

255
00:12:54,135 --> 00:12:55,965
and, and excellent wolf.

256
00:12:55,965 --> 00:12:58,695
Christen, why is the
Swedish Prime Minister here?

257
00:12:58,695 --> 00:13:02,355
Well, a very complicated coalition
actually with Swedish Democrats that

258
00:13:02,355 --> 00:13:04,425
they've navigated extremely smoothly.

259
00:13:04,665 --> 00:13:09,765
So this is the far right populist party,
obviously NATO membership, um, you know,

260
00:13:09,765 --> 00:13:12,195
lots of things going on Generally, uh.

261
00:13:13,020 --> 00:13:14,190
I think that's very impressive.

262
00:13:14,190 --> 00:13:18,570
And then finally met the f fredrickson
handling of Trump, number one.

263
00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,870
Uh, I think that this whole
Greenland thing didn't take the bait.

264
00:13:21,960 --> 00:13:22,710
She's done great.

265
00:13:22,710 --> 00:13:25,260
And I think that was a, a
really good performance.

266
00:13:25,290 --> 00:13:28,620
So those are my 26 to 30 in reverse order.

267
00:13:29,190 --> 00:13:29,640
Jacob Shapiro: I. Gotcha.

268
00:13:29,700 --> 00:13:29,970
All right.

269
00:13:30,240 --> 00:13:33,480
Mine was, mine was 25 through
30, so I put, I put an additional

270
00:13:33,480 --> 00:13:35,730
person in this category, so
mine weren't five per category.

271
00:13:35,730 --> 00:13:38,220
I moved things around a little bit
and I really struggled with the

272
00:13:38,220 --> 00:13:40,950
system thing 'cause I could put too
many people in the system thing.

273
00:13:40,950 --> 00:13:44,760
So I sort of like, this is my all
flawed but serviceable, almost category,

274
00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,100
all smooshed because I couldn't, I
couldn't figure out how to make the

275
00:13:47,100 --> 00:13:49,620
system thing work with the rest of the
list, which is probably my own thing.

276
00:13:50,010 --> 00:13:52,170
Um, it's interesting too, by the way,
I'll tell you that Lawrence Wong will

277
00:13:52,170 --> 00:13:54,120
make an appearance much higher on my list.

278
00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,820
I think you're under indexing
future potential in that pick.

279
00:13:56,820 --> 00:13:59,760
This is somebody who years down the
road, like, I like him and he is

280
00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,870
already done some other stuff, not just
as, uh, as, as, uh, president, like,

281
00:14:03,870 --> 00:14:07,620
you know, he was the one who helped
design some of Singapore's pandemic

282
00:14:07,620 --> 00:14:10,140
policy sort of behind fiscal policy.

283
00:14:10,140 --> 00:14:10,290
He's.

284
00:14:10,310 --> 00:14:11,959
Calm, he's globally fluent.

285
00:14:12,229 --> 00:14:15,920
I asked Chad GPT to give me a scouting
report on him based on a basketball

286
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:17,359
player and it's spit back at me.

287
00:14:17,359 --> 00:14:19,699
High efficiency governance
in a clean package, like a

288
00:14:19,699 --> 00:14:21,439
macro economic Kyle Corver.

289
00:14:21,619 --> 00:14:24,469
I'm happy to get Kyle Corver with the
thir, with the, you know, with that.

290
00:14:24,500 --> 00:14:27,199
So anyway, he's much further on my
list, but here, here here's where I'll

291
00:14:27,199 --> 00:14:33,079
go from 30, um, up to 25 at 30, I'm
gonna put in Abby Ahmed in Ethiopia.

292
00:14:33,650 --> 00:14:37,699
Um, he's actually made a ton of
missteps and the civil war with the

293
00:14:37,699 --> 00:14:40,040
Tigray has been very, uh, destructive.

294
00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:43,849
I think before that though, Ethiopia
was a darling of emerging markets

295
00:14:43,849 --> 00:14:45,650
and I think he is trying to forge.

296
00:14:45,940 --> 00:14:48,400
A, an Ethiopian national identity.

297
00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:53,530
So in terms of like, like scale of, uh,
not like a degree of difficulty, uh, I

298
00:14:53,530 --> 00:14:56,320
think he's had a really, really hard thing
and he is trying to do something that

299
00:14:56,320 --> 00:14:59,320
is unprecedented in Ethiopian history
and maybe even in African history.

300
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:00,730
So I put him on the list for there.

301
00:15:01,210 --> 00:15:03,610
Uh, 29 we get Paul Kagame and Rwanda.

302
00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:04,090
Hmm.

303
00:15:04,090 --> 00:15:08,230
Uh, he almost dropped off the list
because getting kind of old and, you know,

304
00:15:08,290 --> 00:15:09,640
there's some other things happening now.

305
00:15:09,640 --> 00:15:12,310
It sort of seems like we're doing
another version of the Congo Wars.

306
00:15:12,310 --> 00:15:13,600
Is he really gonna have the stamina?

307
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,440
But think about where Rwanda was
before Paul Kagame and think about

308
00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:18,910
where, where it is right now.

309
00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:20,440
He's on the list for me.

310
00:15:20,890 --> 00:15:24,760
Uh, at 28, I had Emmanuel Macron,
he would've been much higher,

311
00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:25,960
except that he's a lame duck.

312
00:15:25,960 --> 00:15:27,085
He won't be here for much longer.

313
00:15:27,085 --> 00:15:27,405
Mm-hmm.

314
00:15:27,485 --> 00:15:29,920
So if this were 2017, probably
would've put him higher up.

315
00:15:30,040 --> 00:15:31,780
He's got lots of problems.

316
00:15:31,780 --> 00:15:33,280
He wears thin domestically.

317
00:15:33,610 --> 00:15:36,940
Um, nobody actually likes him,
so he like, thinks strategically

318
00:15:36,940 --> 00:15:38,020
and tries to do lots of things.

319
00:15:38,020 --> 00:15:40,570
And I appreciate how he
tried to go against Francis.

320
00:15:40,570 --> 00:15:43,240
Constraints failed in a lot of different
ways, but hey, you get points for

321
00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:46,120
trying, but he's low on the list
because not that much time left for him.

322
00:15:46,660 --> 00:15:48,280
Uh, right next to him at 27.

323
00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:49,570
I'll throw in Friedrich Mers.

324
00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:52,150
I can't, I'm not really sure
what to make of him quite yet.

325
00:15:52,270 --> 00:15:55,990
Like, uh, his first, like, steps out of
the gate were not great, like, didn't

326
00:15:55,990 --> 00:15:57,520
get the chancellorship on the first vote.

327
00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,880
Those were like basic blocking and
tackling errors that made me skeptical.

328
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:02,470
So I've thrown him in there.

329
00:16:02,470 --> 00:16:04,060
He, he made it to the top of Germany.

330
00:16:04,060 --> 00:16:06,820
But timing, like lots of different things.

331
00:16:06,820 --> 00:16:07,090
Um.

332
00:16:07,610 --> 00:16:11,030
To say there, and then rounding out
my top two for this category at 26,

333
00:16:11,030 --> 00:16:13,400
I've got Abdul Fata LSI in Egypt.

334
00:16:13,730 --> 00:16:17,030
Dictator strongman probably doesn't
transport to a lot of different

335
00:16:17,030 --> 00:16:20,600
geographies well, but as a military
strongman has done a remarkable job in

336
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,980
a sort of powder keg of a country with
120 million plus people, which was on the

337
00:16:24,980 --> 00:16:26,540
verge of going to the Muslim Brotherhood.

338
00:16:26,990 --> 00:16:31,130
Uh, and at 25, I'll throw in
Ilham Aliev in Azerbaijan.

339
00:16:31,135 --> 00:16:31,464
Mm-hmm.

340
00:16:31,545 --> 00:16:34,219
Um, Azerbaijan has gone
from strength to strength.

341
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,319
They won the Nur Carrabba war.

342
00:16:36,319 --> 00:16:39,050
They're punching significantly
above their weight from economic

343
00:16:39,050 --> 00:16:40,459
performance doing extremely well.

344
00:16:40,699 --> 00:16:43,970
He's this far down in the list because
he's ultimately a resource autocrat.

345
00:16:44,030 --> 00:16:46,939
So I'm not sure that Ali's
game travels very much, but

346
00:16:46,939 --> 00:16:48,530
it's perfect for Azerbaijan.

347
00:16:48,530 --> 00:16:52,610
And Azerbaijan has done so well
compared to, say, its neighbor Armenia

348
00:16:52,610 --> 00:16:56,390
or some others, uh, in the South
caucuses that I think he warrants,

349
00:16:56,449 --> 00:16:58,459
uh, inclusion in this category.

350
00:16:58,459 --> 00:17:00,829
So there, there's my, my 30 through 25.

351
00:17:01,275 --> 00:17:06,405
Marko Papic: So what, who, so
Ethiopia 30 Rwanda, 29 France 28.

352
00:17:06,615 --> 00:17:07,335
Uh, 27.

353
00:17:07,335 --> 00:17:08,024
I missed, sorry.

354
00:17:08,085 --> 00:17:08,805
Uh, I didn't put it down.

355
00:17:08,805 --> 00:17:09,075
Friedrich

356
00:17:09,075 --> 00:17:09,734
Jacob Shapiro: Mers, Germany.

357
00:17:09,764 --> 00:17:09,974
Oh, yeah.

358
00:17:10,065 --> 00:17:10,454
Germany.

359
00:17:10,460 --> 00:17:10,480
Germany.

360
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:10,800
Marko Papic: Germany.

361
00:17:10,805 --> 00:17:11,295
Interesting.

362
00:17:11,355 --> 00:17:13,875
Uh, you have, yeah.

363
00:17:14,385 --> 00:17:14,774
Okay.

364
00:17:16,155 --> 00:17:18,045
Uh, I struggled.

365
00:17:18,405 --> 00:17:24,254
Um, I struggled myself, uh, with, uh, Ali.

366
00:17:25,875 --> 00:17:29,024
I, I thought of adding him as well,
and I think that's an interesting one.

367
00:17:29,024 --> 00:17:33,345
The other ones do, uh, make a appearance
for me as well, except for e Egypt's, uh,

368
00:17:33,345 --> 00:17:38,055
cc he doesn't, uh, just that, uh, I don't
know what to make of it yet, you know?

369
00:17:38,055 --> 00:17:38,649
Uh, mm-hmm.

370
00:17:39,135 --> 00:17:44,715
Uh, obviously navigating post Arab
spring is, is a big deal, so maybe I, I

371
00:17:44,715 --> 00:17:46,754
feel bad now that he's not on my list.

372
00:17:47,505 --> 00:17:47,775
Jacob Shapiro: Yeah.

373
00:17:47,775 --> 00:17:50,055
I mean, I think it's easy
to forget how chaotic things

374
00:17:50,055 --> 00:17:52,035
were in age of 20 13, 20 14.

375
00:17:52,035 --> 00:17:54,615
But like Mohammed Morsey was
there, the Muslim Brotherhood was

376
00:17:54,615 --> 00:17:57,225
ascendant, like Mubarak, and the
military had been discredited.

377
00:17:57,225 --> 00:18:00,345
And then like, boom, this
guy just comes in goodbye.

378
00:18:00,345 --> 00:18:02,985
Muslim Brotherhood,
goodbye like Arab Spring.

379
00:18:02,985 --> 00:18:05,385
Like we're just going back to
military dictatorship again.

380
00:18:05,385 --> 00:18:06,795
That doesn't travel particularly well.

381
00:18:06,795 --> 00:18:07,605
Like Abdul fatal.

382
00:18:07,755 --> 00:18:09,405
He's not winning any Democratic elections.

383
00:18:09,435 --> 00:18:12,645
That's why he's like, but in, just
in terms of like, would you want him

384
00:18:12,645 --> 00:18:14,355
in charge of the machinery of state?

385
00:18:14,775 --> 00:18:14,955
Yeah.

386
00:18:15,045 --> 00:18:17,505
He has shown himself to be a stable
hand, at least when it comes to that.

387
00:18:18,315 --> 00:18:18,885
Marko Papic: Okay, good.

388
00:18:18,975 --> 00:18:19,665
Um, yeah.

389
00:18:19,665 --> 00:18:22,155
Uh, the other thing that I would
say is that product of a system,

390
00:18:22,155 --> 00:18:25,335
I think you chose a lot of people
that actually I have higher.

391
00:18:26,055 --> 00:18:26,175
Mm-hmm.

392
00:18:26,445 --> 00:18:30,675
Um, because I'm not sure that
anyone can be really a product

393
00:18:30,675 --> 00:18:32,415
of Ethiopia or Ze Bijan.

394
00:18:32,415 --> 00:18:34,815
Those are very difficult places to rule.

395
00:18:34,845 --> 00:18:37,095
So the fact that you have
them this slow is interesting.

396
00:18:37,095 --> 00:18:41,205
You know, I chose leaders who
it's difficult for me to assess

397
00:18:41,205 --> 00:18:44,670
whether they are performing well
or whether they're just running.

398
00:18:45,065 --> 00:18:46,445
Really well run countries.

399
00:18:46,595 --> 00:18:50,450
And so that's where, you know, like
that's where Lawrence Wong or met the f

400
00:18:50,455 --> 00:18:54,575
Fredrickson, I mean, met the Fredrickson
has done a, a, a really admirable job,

401
00:18:54,695 --> 00:18:56,765
uh, in Denmark on many different fronts.

402
00:18:56,825 --> 00:19:00,635
Um, but particularly with the
ascendancy of Donald Trump, the

403
00:19:00,635 --> 00:19:01,685
way that they've handled that.

404
00:19:01,955 --> 00:19:05,765
On the other hand, Frederickson
is running Denmark, you know,

405
00:19:05,765 --> 00:19:07,145
how difficult is really that?

406
00:19:07,145 --> 00:19:08,345
So that's where Well,

407
00:19:08,345 --> 00:19:10,205
Jacob Shapiro: yeah, and I think
this is one of the most difficult

408
00:19:10,205 --> 00:19:12,455
things in this exercise is to
try and compare across things.

409
00:19:12,455 --> 00:19:14,730
'cause I had her much higher too,
like both sh Oh, interesting.

410
00:19:14,825 --> 00:19:15,635
Both, both.

411
00:19:15,635 --> 00:19:17,915
She and Lawrence Wong, for me
are in the, I'm hanging up in 30

412
00:19:17,915 --> 00:19:19,415
seconds, so I'll think about it.

413
00:19:20,015 --> 00:19:23,915
I, you know, but I, for me, they're
high functioning technocrats or elite

414
00:19:23,915 --> 00:19:27,395
lieutenants, like the sorts that I would
sort of trust, like if you put met to

415
00:19:27,395 --> 00:19:29,735
Frederickson in charge of Ethiopia.

416
00:19:30,435 --> 00:19:31,995
She might do some really
interesting things.

417
00:19:31,995 --> 00:19:34,875
And I think when you, I think the other
thing about democracies is I think we

418
00:19:34,875 --> 00:19:36,615
don't wanna underestimate how mm-hmm.

419
00:19:37,125 --> 00:19:41,385
Difficult it is to get to the
top echelons of democratic power.

420
00:19:41,655 --> 00:19:44,205
Um, it's a different skill
set than say, you know, a Paul

421
00:19:44,205 --> 00:19:45,555
Kagame or something like that.

422
00:19:45,555 --> 00:19:48,825
But like somebody who's gotten to the
top of Denmark and is crushing it like

423
00:19:48,825 --> 00:19:52,215
that to me, like has, and if you get
to the top of the Singapore system,

424
00:19:52,485 --> 00:19:55,425
like that to me is telling me that
you have some political credentials,

425
00:19:55,665 --> 00:19:57,075
uh, credentials that could follow.

426
00:19:57,075 --> 00:19:59,445
Whereas some of the others in this
category, like I think they are

427
00:19:59,685 --> 00:20:03,675
flawed, but serviceable statesmen and
states, women, they have a low ceiling.

428
00:20:03,675 --> 00:20:07,215
But if you just plugged them in, uh,
yeah, they would give you some stability.

429
00:20:07,215 --> 00:20:08,235
So like, if you're in.

430
00:20:08,275 --> 00:20:10,345
I dunno, let's think of a
really screwed up country.

431
00:20:10,345 --> 00:20:14,815
If you're in like, uh, Kazakhstan is
maybe a bad example, but if, if you're

432
00:20:14,815 --> 00:20:17,695
in a country, uh, let's talk Vietnam,
like Vietnam has been in the midst of

433
00:20:17,695 --> 00:20:20,845
a power transition back and forth for
a couple of years right now, and you

434
00:20:20,845 --> 00:20:22,405
came and said, here, I'll trade you.

435
00:20:22,405 --> 00:20:24,835
Like met to Frederickson, you'd be
like, yeah, I'll take met to Fredericks.

436
00:20:24,835 --> 00:20:25,825
That, that sounds great to me.

437
00:20:26,065 --> 00:20:26,245
So

438
00:20:27,265 --> 00:20:27,565
Marko Papic: cool.

439
00:20:27,565 --> 00:20:27,715
Okay.

440
00:20:27,715 --> 00:20:30,775
Well I'm glad that you didn't
think that my list was overly

441
00:20:30,775 --> 00:20:34,195
indexed to Europe, because you
have at least FedEx in there too.

442
00:20:34,795 --> 00:20:35,065
Jacob Shapiro: I do.

443
00:20:35,065 --> 00:20:38,605
Although I did not have Donald Tusk
and, uh, Slovenia's not on my list.

444
00:20:38,605 --> 00:20:41,935
Just 'cause I, I'm not up to date on
Slovenia, sorry guys, but Donald Tusk

445
00:20:41,935 --> 00:20:45,175
and of Christensen, like I considered
them, but they did not make my list over.

446
00:20:45,205 --> 00:20:45,595
Marko Papic: Okay, good.

447
00:20:45,595 --> 00:20:46,735
But I'm glad you considered them.

448
00:20:46,735 --> 00:20:50,005
At least that's, um, I struggled
really with this category at the end.

449
00:20:50,005 --> 00:20:53,185
It was sort of like, you know, you
could have gone a lot of different ways.

450
00:20:53,185 --> 00:20:55,225
I thought about Ethiopia, myself in Egypt.

451
00:20:55,225 --> 00:20:56,125
So, uh, good.

452
00:20:56,125 --> 00:20:56,995
So far, so good.

453
00:20:56,995 --> 00:20:59,305
Nothing, nothing that
we really disagree with.

454
00:20:59,305 --> 00:20:59,695
Right.

455
00:21:01,395 --> 00:21:04,425
Jacob Shapiro: Uh, no, I, the only thing
is like, I think, yeah, Lawrence Wong

456
00:21:04,425 --> 00:21:06,044
for me is much, much higher on my list.

457
00:21:06,074 --> 00:21:06,104
Okay.

458
00:21:06,104 --> 00:21:07,304
But everything else, I'm, I'm with you.

459
00:21:07,574 --> 00:21:08,054
Marko Papic: Alright, cool.

460
00:21:08,114 --> 00:21:10,725
Okay, well let's go to the next
one, which is flawed, but effective.

461
00:21:10,725 --> 00:21:15,135
And, and I felt it, uh,
several of your picks really

462
00:21:15,135 --> 00:21:17,114
for me fit into this category.

463
00:21:17,235 --> 00:21:23,445
In fact, I have two, I have two that you
picked a little bit higher because, uh, I

464
00:21:23,445 --> 00:21:25,274
see them as flawed, but quite effective.

465
00:21:25,274 --> 00:21:27,375
So I start off at 25.

466
00:21:28,094 --> 00:21:29,715
Uh, for me, 25 obviously.

467
00:21:29,745 --> 00:21:31,725
Uh, you picked six, I picked five.

468
00:21:32,294 --> 00:21:33,735
I started off with Erdogan.

469
00:21:34,995 --> 00:21:38,655
Mm. So I have him, uh,
on my list pretty low.

470
00:21:39,854 --> 00:21:43,274
I suspect we might have some disagreement
on this because I know of course that

471
00:21:43,274 --> 00:21:48,135
you have, uh, you hold Turkey and it's
geopolitical potential in high regard.

472
00:21:49,004 --> 00:21:54,915
But I'm almost penalizing Reep type
Erdogan because of that, because I feel

473
00:21:54,915 --> 00:21:58,905
that he should have done much better
with what he has working for him.

474
00:21:59,910 --> 00:22:04,230
I don't feel that Turkey has really
moved, I mean, uh, to expand its

475
00:22:04,230 --> 00:22:08,010
sphere of influence and yes, I, I
understand that you've been pointing

476
00:22:08,010 --> 00:22:10,590
out its gains in the Middle East.

477
00:22:10,590 --> 00:22:14,910
However, the true, I think, sphere
of influence that Turkey should be

478
00:22:14,910 --> 00:22:21,060
crushing is as it always has been
between the Danube and the E gn.

479
00:22:21,270 --> 00:22:24,090
That is where Turkey
should be projecting power.

480
00:22:24,150 --> 00:22:27,210
The other issue is that
economy has been mismanaged.

481
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:29,010
It just absolutely has been.

482
00:22:29,610 --> 00:22:33,390
Now there's been incredible improvement
over the last two years, but that's

483
00:22:33,390 --> 00:22:35,520
because it started off with a low base.

484
00:22:35,790 --> 00:22:42,330
And unlike Javier Malay, who you can
reward for the last 12 months of Orthodox

485
00:22:42,330 --> 00:22:47,550
policies, you can't really reward Erdogan
for shifting towards more orthodoxy when

486
00:22:47,550 --> 00:22:52,260
he was the one that implement implemented
unorthodox policies to in the first place.

487
00:22:52,260 --> 00:22:54,960
So I have him pretty low on, on this list.

488
00:22:54,960 --> 00:22:57,240
I'll, I'll fly through my
other four really quickly and.

489
00:22:58,290 --> 00:23:00,900
Uh, I got Azerbaijan Ilham Ali of 24.

490
00:23:00,900 --> 00:23:00,990
Yep.

491
00:23:01,650 --> 00:23:03,210
Uh, pretty much for all
the reasons that you said.

492
00:23:03,210 --> 00:23:05,670
So I don't wanna, uh, kind
of waste, uh, time on that.

493
00:23:05,670 --> 00:23:09,030
I think the one thing that maybe you
didn't mention is, uh, maneuvering

494
00:23:09,030 --> 00:23:11,970
between Turkey, Russia, and Europe.

495
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:16,500
Uh, the fact that somehow magically
Azerbaijan has been able to tra

496
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:21,630
transit Russian natural acid to Europe
and not get into trouble for it.

497
00:23:21,690 --> 00:23:22,260
Well done.

498
00:23:22,260 --> 00:23:23,970
Slow clap for, uh, Aliyah.

499
00:23:24,390 --> 00:23:24,930
Very well done.

500
00:23:24,935 --> 00:23:25,020
And, and

501
00:23:25,020 --> 00:23:26,220
Jacob Shapiro: decent relations with Iran.

502
00:23:26,220 --> 00:23:29,580
Decent relations with Israel, like really,
like some upper level statesmanship.

503
00:23:29,940 --> 00:23:31,800
Marko Papic: By the way, we've
lost all our Armenian friends.

504
00:23:32,190 --> 00:23:37,710
I will not be allowed back into Glendale
or, or my adopted hometown of Montreal.

505
00:23:37,710 --> 00:23:41,280
So I apologize to my, all my immediate
friends who are listening to, but

506
00:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,200
if you are honest with yourself.

507
00:23:44,250 --> 00:23:51,120
You'll concede, you'll bow, bow down
your head in silent moment of despair and

508
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:55,230
agree that Azerbaijan has been blessed
with relatively effective leadership.

509
00:23:55,230 --> 00:23:58,949
Although, yes, as you pointed out,
Jacob, we have to note that of

510
00:23:58,949 --> 00:24:04,050
course, it's easy to run a country
whose wealth is greased by commodity,

511
00:24:04,709 --> 00:24:05,550
Jacob Shapiro: uh, exports.

512
00:24:05,550 --> 00:24:06,179
So that's Yeah.

513
00:24:06,185 --> 00:24:08,610
But, but, but they're in a difficult
neighborhood to, to our Armenian

514
00:24:08,610 --> 00:24:11,159
friends, like I think any of you
would trade your leadership for the

515
00:24:11,159 --> 00:24:13,169
leadership of, of the Aliya family.

516
00:24:13,260 --> 00:24:13,469
I think

517
00:24:13,469 --> 00:24:15,629
Marko Papic: that's Well, and, and
by the way, if you disagree, tell us.

518
00:24:15,990 --> 00:24:21,030
Tell us if, if you would, but, uh, from
speaking to my Iranian friends and from

519
00:24:21,030 --> 00:24:25,140
observing Armenia, like the leadership,
uh, vacuum has been pretty significant.

520
00:24:25,650 --> 00:24:26,370
So I agree with you.

521
00:24:26,940 --> 00:24:28,350
Uh, 23rd on my list.

522
00:24:28,380 --> 00:24:29,370
Anwar Ibrahim.

523
00:24:30,450 --> 00:24:30,810
Hmm.

524
00:24:31,290 --> 00:24:31,530
Good one.

525
00:24:31,530 --> 00:24:31,890
Shut.

526
00:24:31,980 --> 00:24:32,280
Yeah.

527
00:24:32,640 --> 00:24:33,180
Malaysia.

528
00:24:33,240 --> 00:24:37,800
Uh, first of all, uh, if there is one
person on this list who has adopted, just

529
00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:42,930
like that ability to resurrect themselves,
reinvent themselves, God bless Ibrahim.

530
00:24:42,930 --> 00:24:45,150
He has, uh, he's a survivor.

531
00:24:45,660 --> 00:24:46,350
Clearly.

532
00:24:46,500 --> 00:24:49,140
He is, uh, been in and out of court.

533
00:24:49,230 --> 00:24:51,870
He's been, uh, attacked
by the elites in Malaysia.

534
00:24:51,870 --> 00:24:53,280
He's done a lot of different things.

535
00:24:53,610 --> 00:24:57,360
I also think that he has handled Malaysian
geopolitics excellence since 2022,

536
00:24:57,840 --> 00:24:59,700
and also during the financial crisis.

537
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:04,020
Uh, remember he was in charge and
Malaysia did escape most of that East

538
00:25:04,020 --> 00:25:06,720
Asian crisis back now, 30 years ago.

539
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:08,310
So he's, he's done really well.

540
00:25:08,820 --> 00:25:12,105
Um, I. Iman Macron is on this list for me.

541
00:25:12,135 --> 00:25:13,395
Flawed, but effective.

542
00:25:13,635 --> 00:25:14,625
Again, it's different.

543
00:25:14,625 --> 00:25:17,804
It's difficult because I, I feel like
most of our French listeners will just

544
00:25:17,804 --> 00:25:19,605
say like, you guys are smoking crack.

545
00:25:20,145 --> 00:25:21,945
Um, nobody likes him, as you said.

546
00:25:21,945 --> 00:25:24,645
But look, here's the case for Macron.

547
00:25:25,125 --> 00:25:29,085
Um, he's managed to build a
centrist coalition out of nothing.

548
00:25:29,625 --> 00:25:31,365
He's stayed in power a long time.

549
00:25:31,905 --> 00:25:34,815
Uh, and I think he's fallen
short of a lot of the things

550
00:25:34,815 --> 00:25:36,495
that he's done, uh, domestically.

551
00:25:36,495 --> 00:25:40,665
But generally speaking, I think the
fact that he asserted the two party

552
00:25:40,665 --> 00:25:45,435
system in France, like with his
bare hands is, uh, is impressive.

553
00:25:46,185 --> 00:25:48,615
And finally, I have Paul Kagame, right?

554
00:25:48,855 --> 00:25:50,895
Flawed, flawed, but effective.

555
00:25:50,895 --> 00:25:52,485
Now you have Paul Kagame 29th.

556
00:25:52,544 --> 00:25:53,774
I have him 21st.

557
00:25:54,254 --> 00:25:56,804
Uh, astonishing economic
development in Rhonda.

558
00:25:56,895 --> 00:25:58,155
I think we all agree with that.

559
00:25:58,605 --> 00:26:01,514
Um, I think the focus on
healthcare and education.

560
00:26:01,605 --> 00:26:02,145
Wow.

561
00:26:03,345 --> 00:26:03,945
Like right.

562
00:26:04,485 --> 00:26:07,965
Yeah, this is, this is the
Singapore economic model just,

563
00:26:08,235 --> 00:26:10,004
just imported into Rwanda.

564
00:26:10,004 --> 00:26:14,685
Like well done, obviously, um, on and
off supporting insurgent in Congo.

565
00:26:15,074 --> 00:26:18,165
Not sure what the, what
the winner gets, but Sure.

566
00:26:18,524 --> 00:26:20,985
And obviously troubled
domestic track records.

567
00:26:20,985 --> 00:26:24,195
One of those domestic track records
were like, you may not be able to

568
00:26:24,195 --> 00:26:25,514
retire, if you know what I mean.

569
00:26:25,514 --> 00:26:28,814
And that's not sure
that that was necessary.

570
00:26:28,875 --> 00:26:29,294
Um.

571
00:26:30,495 --> 00:26:30,885
That's it.

572
00:26:31,605 --> 00:26:33,885
Jacob Shapiro: Yeah, no, I, like,
I, I think he belongs on the list.

573
00:26:33,885 --> 00:26:36,075
If he were 10 years younger,
he'd be higher on my list.

574
00:26:36,075 --> 00:26:38,685
Like my interesting, including him
at 29 is just about an age thing.

575
00:26:38,685 --> 00:26:42,015
And he's been around for a long time and
eventually things are, are gonna run out.

576
00:26:42,015 --> 00:26:42,555
But I think you're right.

577
00:26:42,555 --> 00:26:44,445
And I think he's actually,
he's been masterful in the

578
00:26:44,445 --> 00:26:45,915
way he interfered with Congo.

579
00:26:45,945 --> 00:26:49,425
Like, I mean, when you think about where
Rwanda was in the mid nineties and how he,

580
00:26:49,545 --> 00:26:53,985
you know, strategically positioned Rwanda
into a real force to be reckoned with

581
00:26:53,985 --> 00:26:55,485
against much larger countries around it.

582
00:26:55,485 --> 00:26:56,235
I think he deserves it.

583
00:26:56,415 --> 00:26:57,615
I think we should spend just a second.

584
00:26:57,615 --> 00:27:00,795
I should have had Anwar Ibrahim on this
list and I, I don't have him on the list.

585
00:27:00,795 --> 00:27:02,385
Um, that's a mistake on my part though.

586
00:27:02,385 --> 00:27:03,825
I needed to make room
for him and I didn't.

587
00:27:03,825 --> 00:27:04,785
So I take your point there.

588
00:27:05,085 --> 00:27:06,975
Erdowan is not that much higher for me.

589
00:27:06,975 --> 00:27:07,665
I'll give away that.

590
00:27:07,665 --> 00:27:10,245
He was number 16 on my list.

591
00:27:10,545 --> 00:27:12,825
Um, again, here though, this
is more about his age, like.

592
00:27:13,470 --> 00:27:17,100
Erdogan is at the end of his career, sort
of like a hall of Famer on their last leg.

593
00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:18,090
So he's still dangerous.

594
00:27:18,090 --> 00:27:20,370
He's still got some punches to
throw, but there's not a whole

595
00:27:20,370 --> 00:27:22,199
lot left, I think of Erdogan.

596
00:27:22,439 --> 00:27:24,300
I think your shorts No, no, go ahead.

597
00:27:24,540 --> 00:27:25,560
Marko Papic: No, no,
please, please go ahead.

598
00:27:26,220 --> 00:27:28,110
Jacob Shapiro: Just I think you're
short selling a little bit of his,

599
00:27:28,169 --> 00:27:31,500
of his accomplishment because his
main accomplishment is to take when,

600
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,790
you know, when he became mayor of
Istanbul, um, in, what was that late.

601
00:27:35,830 --> 00:27:37,510
Late nineties, I forget the exact year.

602
00:27:37,899 --> 00:27:41,980
Um, Turkey was truly a divided
country where you had the liberal

603
00:27:41,980 --> 00:27:44,199
secular, you know, cosmopolitan.

604
00:27:44,199 --> 00:27:47,949
We're gonna drink rocky and sit on the
bosphorous and eat fish crowd versus

605
00:27:47,949 --> 00:27:52,330
the central anatol, conservative
heartland, you know, looked down upon

606
00:27:52,330 --> 00:27:54,129
by the cosmopolitans in Istanbul.

607
00:27:54,250 --> 00:27:58,540
And Erdogan has forged a coherent
country out of both of these.

608
00:27:58,570 --> 00:28:02,199
He put the Anatolian conservatives
not completely in power.

609
00:28:02,199 --> 00:28:06,040
It's not like he's completely dismantled
the cosmopolitanism of Istanbul

610
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,740
and all the things that have made
whoever controls the Bosporus and

611
00:28:08,740 --> 00:28:11,409
incredibly important trading partner
and all these other things, but he's

612
00:28:11,409 --> 00:28:14,290
integrated them into the economy and
he's shown an incredible amount of

613
00:28:14,290 --> 00:28:15,820
economic flexibility in doing so.

614
00:28:15,820 --> 00:28:19,510
Remember, this is the guy who was giving
me all the IMF reforms in the late two

615
00:28:19,510 --> 00:28:23,020
thousands, into the early 2010s, like
doing all the things by the book, but

616
00:28:23,020 --> 00:28:25,120
then when he needed to grease the wheels.

617
00:28:25,830 --> 00:28:29,010
And to secure arrangements with all
of these different parts of society.

618
00:28:29,190 --> 00:28:29,639
Sure.

619
00:28:29,820 --> 00:28:33,240
Let's do a little state led, you
know, Archy and like, you know, let's

620
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,970
make sure that the right people were
in control of the right industries.

621
00:28:35,970 --> 00:28:39,600
And if that means I have unorthodox
monetary policy, so be it.

622
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,780
I'll just call up my friends in Saudi
Arabia and I know that they'll bail me out

623
00:28:42,780 --> 00:28:44,550
because they don't want me as an enemy.

624
00:28:44,550 --> 00:28:46,770
I'm worse to them as an
enemy, as as anything else.

625
00:28:46,770 --> 00:28:48,629
So I think he's reaching
the end of his rope.

626
00:28:48,629 --> 00:28:52,980
I think you can see that, you know, in,
uh, in arresting and imprisoning Ima mlu,

627
00:28:52,980 --> 00:28:54,450
like, I don't think that's gonna age well.

628
00:28:54,450 --> 00:28:58,770
You can see he's trying to maybe
position sons or sons inlaws or like

629
00:28:58,770 --> 00:29:01,320
other fa like all these things I
think are not gonna go well for him.

630
00:29:01,649 --> 00:29:05,460
Um, but I think he's, I think Turkey is
in a much more powerful and economically

631
00:29:05,460 --> 00:29:07,139
prosperous situation than it was before.

632
00:29:07,139 --> 00:29:11,129
And I think he really threaded the needle
on a country that very easily could have

633
00:29:11,129 --> 00:29:14,639
gone, you know, in a different look at
other countries in the Middle East and how

634
00:29:14,639 --> 00:29:20,100
they dealt with conservative, more Islamic
aspects of society and the way he was able

635
00:29:20,100 --> 00:29:21,840
to forge something coherent out of that.

636
00:29:22,075 --> 00:29:24,805
I mean, let's not invoke
add a Turk, but hey, he's at

637
00:29:24,805 --> 00:29:25,795
least doing a good impression.

638
00:29:27,835 --> 00:29:28,285
Marko Papic: Okay.

639
00:29:29,515 --> 00:29:29,965
So,

640
00:29:31,315 --> 00:29:35,095
Jacob Shapiro: um, I think I, I, my entire
first six were all flawed but serviceable.

641
00:29:35,095 --> 00:29:37,315
So I think what you should do next
is you should read your next category

642
00:29:37,315 --> 00:29:38,575
and then I'll do my next category.

643
00:29:38,605 --> 00:29:40,105
'cause I don't, I don't
want to get in front of your

644
00:29:40,105 --> 00:29:41,335
categories, if that makes sense.

645
00:29:41,530 --> 00:29:41,880
Marko Papic: Sense.

646
00:29:41,885 --> 00:29:42,925
Oh, okay.

647
00:29:42,925 --> 00:29:45,685
But, uh, do you wanna restate,
uh, your next five or,

648
00:29:46,465 --> 00:29:47,695
Jacob Shapiro: I think you
should state your next and

649
00:29:47,695 --> 00:29:48,985
then I'll follow on behind you.

650
00:29:48,985 --> 00:29:49,765
I think that's Got it.

651
00:29:49,765 --> 00:29:51,775
If, if we're, if we're keeping
up with categories, that's

652
00:29:51,775 --> 00:29:52,765
what's gonna line up best.

653
00:29:52,870 --> 00:29:53,160
Marko Papic: Okay.

654
00:29:53,165 --> 00:29:53,605
Okay, cool.

655
00:29:53,605 --> 00:29:55,555
So the next one is unproven gems.

656
00:29:57,145 --> 00:29:57,625
Correct?

657
00:29:58,825 --> 00:29:59,095
Jacob Shapiro: Yeah.

658
00:29:59,125 --> 00:30:02,965
So though I, this wasn't make the G
20 photo or is this unproven gems?

659
00:30:03,505 --> 00:30:05,455
Marko Papic: Uh, this
is the unproven gems.

660
00:30:05,815 --> 00:30:06,325
Jacob Shapiro: Oh, okay.

661
00:30:06,685 --> 00:30:09,505
Um, I had make the, the G
20 photo, but that's fine.

662
00:30:09,535 --> 00:30:10,045
It's all, that's fine.

663
00:30:10,045 --> 00:30:10,585
It's all still good.

664
00:30:11,025 --> 00:30:11,625
Okay, so,

665
00:30:12,345 --> 00:30:13,755
Marko Papic: so I, I stopped at 21.

666
00:30:13,755 --> 00:30:16,185
And by the way, uh, so
my last one was Paul Kme.

667
00:30:16,185 --> 00:30:21,015
I'm, you know, a lot about frontier
markets, um, that I don't really

668
00:30:21,015 --> 00:30:24,375
follow very closely, so I'm very
glad that you've kind of confirmed

669
00:30:24,525 --> 00:30:25,665
that that was a good pick.

670
00:30:25,755 --> 00:30:27,735
I, I'm, I'm glad we're aligned on that.

671
00:30:28,125 --> 00:30:28,335
Alright.

672
00:30:28,365 --> 00:30:29,265
Unproven gems.

673
00:30:29,775 --> 00:30:33,405
Unproven gems for me are basically
kind of like, um, you know,

674
00:30:33,555 --> 00:30:34,815
lots of potential out there.

675
00:30:34,815 --> 00:30:37,755
I start off with Anthony
Albanese in Australia.

676
00:30:38,445 --> 00:30:41,475
Done, well so far, very
difficult situation.

677
00:30:41,505 --> 00:30:43,815
Um, a more isolationist
to the United States.

678
00:30:43,815 --> 00:30:45,225
There's the cus review.

679
00:30:45,645 --> 00:30:50,025
Uh, he's trying to, uh, he's
trying to pivot Australia away from

680
00:30:50,145 --> 00:30:52,515
what was, uh, extremely unipolar.

681
00:30:53,145 --> 00:30:54,645
Uh, basically worldview.

682
00:30:55,035 --> 00:30:57,645
It was really the only country,
I think on the planet that just

683
00:30:57,645 --> 00:30:59,445
decided like, world is bipolar.

684
00:30:59,475 --> 00:31:01,845
China US is gonna go into a cold war.

685
00:31:02,205 --> 00:31:03,705
Uh, he's saying like, wait a minute.

686
00:31:03,765 --> 00:31:07,515
That doesn't seem like what's
happening, so maybe I should adjust

687
00:31:07,815 --> 00:31:09,555
the foreign policy of Australia.

688
00:31:09,585 --> 00:31:10,995
And I think that's correct.

689
00:31:11,745 --> 00:31:12,615
Number 19,

690
00:31:14,925 --> 00:31:15,825
unproven Gem.

691
00:31:17,145 --> 00:31:19,905
Leo 14th, the Vatican.

692
00:31:21,105 --> 00:31:21,735
Jacob Shapiro: Nice.

693
00:31:23,595 --> 00:31:24,040
I knew you would like that.

694
00:31:24,045 --> 00:31:24,585
Not on my list.

695
00:31:24,765 --> 00:31:25,365
Marko Papic: Not on your list.

696
00:31:26,385 --> 00:31:26,745
Oh, not on

697
00:31:26,745 --> 00:31:27,135
Jacob Shapiro: my list.

698
00:31:27,135 --> 00:31:27,138
There we go.

699
00:31:27,138 --> 00:31:27,142
Not on my list.

700
00:31:28,155 --> 00:31:29,385
Marko Papic: Number 18, Friedrich Mez.

701
00:31:29,985 --> 00:31:34,545
Um, quite frankly, Friedrich Mez,
I mean, he's, uh, on your list as

702
00:31:34,575 --> 00:31:36,675
27, just because you don't know.

703
00:31:37,155 --> 00:31:39,255
Um, I put him at 18.

704
00:31:39,405 --> 00:31:42,945
Quite frankly, I think we will
both be proven, uh, to have

705
00:31:43,755 --> 00:31:44,715
not picked him high enough.

706
00:31:44,715 --> 00:31:49,575
I think, uh, so far what I've seen is, uh,
quite frankly, really, really impressive.

707
00:31:50,115 --> 00:31:51,705
Number 17, Mark Carney.

708
00:31:52,500 --> 00:31:53,070
Uh mm-hmm.

709
00:31:53,310 --> 00:31:56,970
He gets a nod over Mertz just
because I think it's more

710
00:31:56,970 --> 00:31:59,610
difficult for him than for Mertz.

711
00:32:00,270 --> 00:32:02,399
Uh, but, uh, doing very well.

712
00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,940
We talked a couple of, uh,
episodes before about structural

713
00:32:05,940 --> 00:32:07,080
reforms going on in Canada.

714
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:12,810
He has just submitted the one Canada
bill legislation that is going to

715
00:32:12,810 --> 00:32:14,070
break down barriers between provinces.

716
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:16,950
And I do believe that is going to pass.

717
00:32:17,250 --> 00:32:20,070
And I think that Canada will
finally be like all other countries

718
00:32:20,070 --> 00:32:24,030
on the planet, a federal entity,
which it hasn't been thus far.

719
00:32:24,030 --> 00:32:25,500
So that is actually enormous.

720
00:32:25,500 --> 00:32:29,879
I mean, some studies show that if they
actually get that through, creating

721
00:32:29,879 --> 00:32:31,889
an economy will benefit massively.

722
00:32:31,889 --> 00:32:37,139
Like it will grow like a whole percent
higher, um, because of those reforms.

723
00:32:37,740 --> 00:32:37,830
Mm-hmm.

724
00:32:38,070 --> 00:32:42,180
And then finally, this is gonna be maybe
a controversial, uh, pick, maybe not.

725
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:43,470
Ahmed Al.

726
00:32:45,145 --> 00:32:45,365
Jacob Shapiro: Aha.

727
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:47,550
I uh, that's a great pick.

728
00:32:47,550 --> 00:32:48,300
I left him off.

729
00:32:48,300 --> 00:32:49,530
He was in my honorable mentions.

730
00:32:49,530 --> 00:32:51,870
'cause um, I think he's very speculative.

731
00:32:51,870 --> 00:32:55,920
Like you, you might have found Nicola Yoic
or you might have found, uh, I don't know,

732
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:59,070
insert some other European player that
didn't make it, that got drafted that way.

733
00:32:59,070 --> 00:33:01,230
But what he's done so far
is very, very impressive.

734
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,420
Marko Papic: Well, what's
impressive is this is the former al

735
00:33:03,510 --> 00:33:06,240
basically Al-Qaeda aligned leader.

736
00:33:06,300 --> 00:33:06,930
Not basically

737
00:33:06,935 --> 00:33:09,150
Jacob Shapiro: like, like
yes, he was Al-Qaeda.

738
00:33:10,140 --> 00:33:10,680
Marko Papic: He was Al Al-Qaeda.

739
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:11,100
Yes.

740
00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:14,160
Uh, what's interesting though
about him and his family and what

741
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:19,770
makes me pause here is that he's
actually extremely well educated

742
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:22,710
person from a very educated family.

743
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:28,410
Uh, so he is, uh, I think he
went to school, uh, for medicine.

744
00:33:29,385 --> 00:33:33,524
Um, and he is married to somebody
who comes from a very prominent

745
00:33:33,554 --> 00:33:38,294
political family that has very
deep roots in Syria, in the elites.

746
00:33:38,324 --> 00:33:43,455
So, um, his father was also
a, a prominent, uh, I think

747
00:33:43,455 --> 00:33:44,834
member of previous governments.

748
00:33:44,865 --> 00:33:49,784
Uh, so this is not somebody
that just picked up an AK 47 off

749
00:33:49,844 --> 00:33:52,365
like a farm and joined Alqaeda.

750
00:33:52,365 --> 00:33:54,764
This is somebody who was frustrated
with what was going on in his

751
00:33:54,764 --> 00:33:58,695
country, very well educated and,
uh, fought against the side.

752
00:33:58,995 --> 00:34:02,985
And of course, the easiest way
to get resources and weapons at

753
00:34:02,985 --> 00:34:07,875
the time was to join Alqaeda, um,
or join its various offshoots.

754
00:34:08,444 --> 00:34:14,114
So thus far, uh, just an incredible
savvy understanding of PR and marketing.

755
00:34:14,534 --> 00:34:18,255
I mean, he scored an interview
with, uh, you know, AUR on CNN.

756
00:34:18,824 --> 00:34:20,955
Uh, he looks great in a suit.

757
00:34:21,764 --> 00:34:24,105
He is hedging a lot of different risks.

758
00:34:24,105 --> 00:34:28,154
Sharia law, this, that, uh, Israel,
Iran, the only country in the entire

759
00:34:28,154 --> 00:34:29,895
region that was very quiet about it.

760
00:34:30,435 --> 00:34:31,844
Um, and I think that.

761
00:34:32,490 --> 00:34:34,770
It's been very impressive,
uh, performance.

762
00:34:34,770 --> 00:34:38,220
Of course, the problems are what has been
released over the last couple of days.

763
00:34:38,550 --> 00:34:42,030
There's now evidence of, you know,
sectarian violence against the alloys.

764
00:34:42,390 --> 00:34:46,530
I mean, he needs to crush that ASAP
if he's going to remain on this list.

765
00:34:46,530 --> 00:34:48,300
But I've got him at 16

766
00:34:49,410 --> 00:34:51,150
Jacob Shapiro: or he just
needs to crush all the alloys.

767
00:34:51,150 --> 00:34:53,670
I'm not sure the alloys have
long to go in Syria based.

768
00:34:53,670 --> 00:34:57,060
I mean, they had their time in the sun led
by a pretty brutal series of dictators.

769
00:34:57,540 --> 00:34:59,400
Um, yeah, Leo the 14th, not on my list.

770
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,850
I don't think anyone would trade,
uh, a White Sox fan for, uh, any

771
00:35:02,850 --> 00:35:03,960
of these other leaders going on

772
00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:04,050
Marko Papic: here.

773
00:35:04,075 --> 00:35:04,655
Oh, wow.

774
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:06,240
Jacob Shapiro: Oh, shots fired.

775
00:35:06,365 --> 00:35:07,255
Marko Papic: That was the problem.

776
00:35:09,420 --> 00:35:13,440
Not these baseball dancing age or, you
know, like I listen if you can, if you

777
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:17,430
can survive the conclave of the cardinals
and the backstabbing that happens there.

778
00:35:17,740 --> 00:35:18,400
You know what I mean?

779
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:19,299
Like you're good.

780
00:35:19,299 --> 00:35:23,799
And I dunno, we'll see, but I threw
him in there because you and I have

781
00:35:23,799 --> 00:35:27,640
a great affinity to talk about, uh,
in, in inner workings of the Vaticans.

782
00:35:27,640 --> 00:35:29,020
So I figured why not?

783
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:29,650
Jacob Shapiro: Yeah, yeah.

784
00:35:29,650 --> 00:35:30,100
Why not?

785
00:35:30,310 --> 00:35:32,500
Merz Mers would've been hired for
me, except that, you know, that

786
00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:34,750
thing where he didn't get elected
chancellor on the first vote.

787
00:35:34,750 --> 00:35:39,279
That was sort of like JR Smith calling
Time out in game one of that, uh, you

788
00:35:39,279 --> 00:35:42,819
know, know how many timeouts you have,
man, that's like a basic, fundamental task

789
00:35:42,819 --> 00:35:45,759
of how you're gonna do these things if you
can't do like, so maybe he'll be great.

790
00:35:45,759 --> 00:35:47,830
And I appreciate that he's
working against constraints here,

791
00:35:47,830 --> 00:35:49,000
but he got penalized for me.

792
00:35:49,450 --> 00:35:52,299
Uh, Bo both Albanese and Carney
are higher up on this list.

793
00:35:52,305 --> 00:35:52,345
Well,

794
00:35:52,779 --> 00:35:53,585
Marko Papic: well I'm glad I was worried.

795
00:35:54,069 --> 00:35:57,790
I was very, very self-conscious
about putting Alban here.

796
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:02,560
Uh, because I thought you were gonna make
fun of me, and I also expected, I also

797
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:07,210
expected you to really shit all over my
Mark Carney pick and call me a homer.

798
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:12,280
So, uh, I may have even brought him
lower just because I was self-conscious

799
00:36:12,310 --> 00:36:13,990
and afraid of being made fun of.

800
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:15,820
Jacob Shapiro: No, I,
I think Carney's okay.

801
00:36:15,820 --> 00:36:17,560
I think he's got a tough job ahead of him.

802
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,310
I think that caving on that digital
services tax shows you just, that Canada

803
00:36:21,310 --> 00:36:24,340
doesn't have a lot of options and that
his job is gonna be to, you know, make

804
00:36:24,340 --> 00:36:27,850
the best deal possible he can with
Donald Trump in the United States without

805
00:36:27,850 --> 00:36:29,260
completely bending over backwards.

806
00:36:29,260 --> 00:36:30,730
So he's got a high degree of difficulty.

807
00:36:30,730 --> 00:36:34,060
But, um, you know, if you're thinking
about would you trade your current leader

808
00:36:34,060 --> 00:36:37,180
for somebody like Mark Carney, like,
he's gonna, like, he's higher up for me

809
00:36:37,180 --> 00:36:39,580
because I think you can, if you start
thinking about it that way, I think

810
00:36:39,580 --> 00:36:41,920
there are a lot of countries in the world
would be like, yeah, I'll take that guy.

811
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:43,120
He seems let's pretty smart.

812
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,130
Good, let's good like hand on the wheel.

813
00:36:45,190 --> 00:36:47,020
Marko Papic: So let's
explain what we mean by that.

814
00:36:47,110 --> 00:36:50,140
I mean, uh, essential
bankers come and go, right?

815
00:36:50,590 --> 00:36:55,990
But having a smooth,
sophisticated, and yet comfortable

816
00:36:55,990 --> 00:36:57,580
with being in a small town.

817
00:36:58,005 --> 00:37:00,134
Central banker, there is only one of one.

818
00:37:00,375 --> 00:37:04,005
Mario Drag may be the best
dressed person on the planet.

819
00:37:04,575 --> 00:37:09,045
Uh, Mario Draghi may be the highest
IQ person on the planet, but I don't

820
00:37:09,045 --> 00:37:12,495
think that Mario Drag would've been as
comfortable in a small Canadian town

821
00:37:12,495 --> 00:37:15,825
discussing junior hockey as Mark Carney.

822
00:37:15,825 --> 00:37:18,375
And that's because he actually
was born in Northwestern

823
00:37:18,375 --> 00:37:20,445
territories, not even a province.

824
00:37:20,835 --> 00:37:24,345
It's pretty much like Iraqis as
far as you're concerned, or hot

825
00:37:24,405 --> 00:37:26,205
more appropriately climatically.

826
00:37:26,835 --> 00:37:31,725
And so he does have small town
appeal and uh, ability to actually

827
00:37:31,725 --> 00:37:34,515
seem genuine, um, and authentic.

828
00:37:34,575 --> 00:37:39,165
And that's really a difficult combination
to both be a macroeconomics nerd.

829
00:37:40,065 --> 00:37:41,505
And have that authenticity

830
00:37:42,195 --> 00:37:44,535
Jacob Shapiro: well, and really
understands the anglosphere,

831
00:37:44,625 --> 00:37:47,985
like, understands Canada deeply,
understands the UK deeply, I think

832
00:37:47,985 --> 00:37:49,935
understands the United States deeply.

833
00:37:49,935 --> 00:37:52,485
Like he's, you know, in that sense,
he has a deep knowledge of where he

834
00:37:52,485 --> 00:37:55,155
comes from and is able to balance some
of these pressures against each other.

835
00:37:55,155 --> 00:37:57,855
So yeah, I'm, I'm not, I have no
problems with Kearney whatsoever.

836
00:37:57,855 --> 00:38:01,275
I still think he's not governing a future
superpower, but we can, we don't have to

837
00:38:01,275 --> 00:38:03,405
take you through the, the coals for that.

838
00:38:03,615 --> 00:38:06,855
Alright, well my next, my next
category goes from 24 to 21.

839
00:38:07,365 --> 00:38:09,075
Um, and I didn't really
have it as unproven gems.

840
00:38:09,075 --> 00:38:11,175
This is really just another
grab bag of leaders that I

841
00:38:11,175 --> 00:38:12,435
thought sort of belong together.

842
00:38:12,435 --> 00:38:12,585
That's okay.

843
00:38:12,590 --> 00:38:12,850
Okay.

844
00:38:12,850 --> 00:38:12,851
Yeah.

845
00:38:13,005 --> 00:38:18,375
Um, but, you know, um, but anyway, so
at 24, I have pro Bwo in Indonesia.

846
00:38:18,555 --> 00:38:18,645
Mm-hmm.

847
00:38:18,885 --> 00:38:21,705
Um, this is a guy who has changed
his stripes many different times.

848
00:38:21,705 --> 00:38:22,875
He was a military.

849
00:38:23,565 --> 00:38:26,775
Or really, you know, an assistant to
a military dictator, did some human

850
00:38:26,775 --> 00:38:30,795
rights violations, stayed around though
for decades, eventually makes a deal

851
00:38:30,795 --> 00:38:32,205
to become vice president with Jai.

852
00:38:32,505 --> 00:38:36,615
Now he's finally, uh, the president
showing off some of his like negative

853
00:38:36,615 --> 00:38:39,855
qualities and making the biggest cabinet
in Indonesia history and all the pork

854
00:38:39,855 --> 00:38:41,145
barrels spending and everything else.

855
00:38:41,145 --> 00:38:44,505
But hey, like you get points for
sticking around four decades in both a

856
00:38:44,505 --> 00:38:46,785
military dictatorship and a democracy.

857
00:38:47,115 --> 00:38:49,965
I think somebody who knows
like how to get power, how to

858
00:38:49,965 --> 00:38:51,465
exert power and how to survive.

859
00:38:51,465 --> 00:38:52,485
So I'll take him there.

860
00:38:52,545 --> 00:38:53,895
He might get pushed down lower.

861
00:38:53,924 --> 00:38:56,025
Um, some of his early
returns on his first,

862
00:38:56,265 --> 00:38:56,835
Marko Papic: well, that's the thing.

863
00:38:56,835 --> 00:38:57,555
Couple months in power.

864
00:38:57,555 --> 00:38:59,595
If I could just interject, please.

865
00:38:59,595 --> 00:38:59,688
I thought about it.

866
00:38:59,692 --> 00:39:04,455
I thought about it, is just that
it's just so hard to follow Joco.

867
00:39:04,455 --> 00:39:04,456
Widodo.

868
00:39:05,060 --> 00:39:05,400
It is.

869
00:39:05,540 --> 00:39:07,424
And if Joco Widodo was here.

870
00:39:08,100 --> 00:39:10,710
You know, I don't really have honorable
mentions, to be honest with you, Jacob.

871
00:39:10,710 --> 00:39:13,650
I have some that don't make the
list and that I think are terrible.

872
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:15,900
But many people think they're good.

873
00:39:16,050 --> 00:39:18,990
But I have this kind of like, oh,
I wish they were still in charge.

874
00:39:18,990 --> 00:39:21,090
Like, yeah, I have a man
crush in Mario Draghi.

875
00:39:21,150 --> 00:39:21,540
What?

876
00:39:21,540 --> 00:39:22,020
Sumi?

877
00:39:22,620 --> 00:39:27,600
Uh, and I kind of had a man crush in Joko
Widodo, think the man like, did amazing

878
00:39:27,600 --> 00:39:29,400
stuff and brought Indonesia to the map.

879
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:34,230
So now I just, you know, it's kind
of like when all these basketball

880
00:39:34,230 --> 00:39:36,810
players were kind of promoted
by the NBA as the next Michael

881
00:39:36,810 --> 00:39:38,430
Jordan, I ended up not liking them.

882
00:39:38,490 --> 00:39:41,910
Like I was not a Vince Carter fan, and
not just because he stabbed Toronto

883
00:39:41,910 --> 00:39:45,630
Raptors in the back, but I just
didn't like him because the PR machine

884
00:39:45,630 --> 00:39:48,390
tried to make him the next Michael
Jordan, and I just don't think the

885
00:39:48,390 --> 00:39:50,880
Provo is anywhere close to Joe Dodo.

886
00:39:51,090 --> 00:39:52,320
So anyways, that's, he is not,

887
00:39:52,530 --> 00:39:53,010
Jacob Shapiro: he is not.

888
00:39:53,010 --> 00:39:54,120
He and j and he Jacobi did a great job.

889
00:39:54,120 --> 00:39:57,720
But, but to extend your metaphor to a
really painful extent, you know, j Jacobi

890
00:39:57,720 --> 00:40:00,750
reminds me of, um, I remember like, uh.

891
00:40:01,140 --> 00:40:04,080
Late nineties still, you know,
sports Illustrated was still a thing.

892
00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,590
And I vividly remember the cover of Sports
Illustrated when they were like, Jerry

893
00:40:07,590 --> 00:40:09,480
Stackhouse, the next Michael Jordan.

894
00:40:10,380 --> 00:40:12,840
I think Jerry Stackhouse
is Jae in this metaphor.

895
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,600
Like everybody was like, eh, and
you know, he had a fine career,

896
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:17,970
but like, he didn't, he didn't
actually fundamentally change things.

897
00:40:17,970 --> 00:40:21,150
Like, I don't think that, um, I think
that now that he's gone, like his

898
00:40:21,150 --> 00:40:23,310
imprint will not stand the test of time.

899
00:40:23,310 --> 00:40:24,990
And that's because Indonesia's impossible.

900
00:40:25,290 --> 00:40:27,600
Um, Indonesia, by all like,
is not really a nation state.

901
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,390
All the different languages, all the
different ethnicities, all of the di

902
00:40:30,390 --> 00:40:32,759
you know, it's literally a bunch of
islands that are strung together in

903
00:40:32,759 --> 00:40:34,230
some kind of strange federal structure.

904
00:40:34,230 --> 00:40:35,910
Like really, really high
degree of difficulty.

905
00:40:35,910 --> 00:40:39,000
So if Jacobi were around, we
up him, but, you know, fail,

906
00:40:39,029 --> 00:40:40,110
failed to leave as imprint.

907
00:40:40,410 --> 00:40:42,150
The next two are gonna
be controversial for me.

908
00:40:42,150 --> 00:40:42,810
They're boring.

909
00:40:43,259 --> 00:40:43,650
Um.

910
00:40:44,194 --> 00:40:47,134
And I'm sure our leaders from New Zealand
and the UK will say, there's no way

911
00:40:47,134 --> 00:40:48,154
that you should have these leaders here.

912
00:40:48,154 --> 00:40:50,315
But again, we're talking about
would you trade these leaders

913
00:40:50,315 --> 00:40:51,395
for what I currently have?

914
00:40:51,395 --> 00:40:55,265
And if you start putting yourself in
the shoes of people in Equatorial Guinea

915
00:40:55,415 --> 00:40:58,384
or Guana, well, actually I shouldn't
say Guatemala, but you know, uh, some

916
00:40:58,384 --> 00:41:01,235
of these other Nicaragua like you would
trade for these people in a heartbeat.

917
00:41:01,235 --> 00:41:03,904
So Christopher Luxon in New
Zealand, you get 23 and Kiir

918
00:41:03,904 --> 00:41:06,275
Starmer 22, just competent.

919
00:41:06,335 --> 00:41:07,055
They're fine.

920
00:41:07,085 --> 00:41:08,255
They're not gonna break things.

921
00:41:08,255 --> 00:41:10,955
They're not gonna change things,
but like, just find competent

922
00:41:10,955 --> 00:41:14,075
leadership that you would trade,
uh, if you had sort of a bad time.

923
00:41:14,465 --> 00:41:18,815
Um, and then coming in at 21, um,
I have Cy Ramos of South Africa.

924
00:41:19,145 --> 00:41:23,255
Um, and I think that he has showed
himself to be a pretty adept politician.

925
00:41:23,255 --> 00:41:25,295
I think he has dealt with
Trump, uh, correctly.

926
00:41:25,295 --> 00:41:28,145
He's in an impossible situation
in South Africa and has played

927
00:41:28,145 --> 00:41:30,485
the game, uh, relatively well.

928
00:41:30,785 --> 00:41:34,955
Um, so, and I, I think he has, you
know, reformist desires, but he's

929
00:41:34,955 --> 00:41:38,404
sort of crippled by the A NC and
some of their, uh, dysfunction.

930
00:41:38,435 --> 00:41:42,515
But I, he's got a very, very hard job and
he's doing a decent job considering the

931
00:41:42,515 --> 00:41:43,745
challenges that he has in front of him.

932
00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:48,150
Marko Papic: Do you wanna go on
or shall we stop here for you?

933
00:41:48,300 --> 00:41:49,500
Jacob Shapiro: Uh, we can
go on whatever you want.

934
00:41:49,500 --> 00:41:50,040
You're the mc?

935
00:41:50,070 --> 00:41:51,030
Yeah, why don't we, I'm happy to go on.

936
00:41:51,450 --> 00:41:54,270
Marko Papic: Yeah, why don't you complete
it, because, you know, I'm at 15 now, so

937
00:41:54,270 --> 00:41:56,040
why don't you go to your next, uh, okay.

938
00:41:56,700 --> 00:41:58,410
Jacob Shapiro: My next
list, 20 through 15 here.

939
00:41:58,410 --> 00:42:00,630
This, uh, what, what was the
name of this category for you?

940
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:03,180
Marko Papic: Well, I think we've kind
of like, uh, moved away from that.

941
00:42:03,180 --> 00:42:05,850
For me, it was diamonds
under pressure, but

942
00:42:06,690 --> 00:42:07,020
Jacob Shapiro: Okay.

943
00:42:07,590 --> 00:42:07,800
Yeah.

944
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:12,630
For me this was like, uh, sort of the same
thing, but more like, like tragic flaw.

945
00:42:12,630 --> 00:42:14,970
Like, these countries are really
lucky to have these guys, but they

946
00:42:14,970 --> 00:42:17,670
have some flaw that just makes
it, eh, like you would trade them

947
00:42:17,670 --> 00:42:19,020
if you could get a better offer.

948
00:42:19,290 --> 00:42:22,560
So coming in at 20 is
Lula de Silva in Brazil.

949
00:42:22,740 --> 00:42:23,340
Marko Papic: Ooh,

950
00:42:23,445 --> 00:42:23,665
Jacob Shapiro: wow.

951
00:42:23,805 --> 00:42:24,870
Um, wow.

952
00:42:24,900 --> 00:42:24,960
Yeah.

953
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,670
Marko Papic: First huge disagreement.

954
00:42:28,185 --> 00:42:29,355
Jacob Shapiro: Because you've
got him higher up or 'cause

955
00:42:29,355 --> 00:42:30,345
you've got 'em lowered down

956
00:42:30,615 --> 00:42:31,562
Marko Papic: because, I mean,
I don't have 'em at all.

957
00:42:32,100 --> 00:42:32,879
You know, you don't have

958
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:33,200
'
Jacob Shapiro: em at all.

959
00:42:33,495 --> 00:42:34,095
Ooh, no.

960
00:42:34,100 --> 00:42:34,240
Lula.

961
00:42:34,245 --> 00:42:37,154
I think that's a mistake and our Brazilian
listeners will call you out for it.

962
00:42:37,154 --> 00:42:40,814
The things that Lula has done over his
career are absolutely extraordinary.

963
00:42:40,995 --> 00:42:41,895
Yes, he has survived.

964
00:42:41,895 --> 00:42:43,125
Agreed, incredible things.

965
00:42:43,129 --> 00:42:43,359
Agreed.

966
00:42:43,359 --> 00:42:46,035
He's at the end of the rope,
so maybe like, I penalized him.

967
00:42:46,035 --> 00:42:48,134
I he would've been further up
if this was young Lula, but

968
00:42:48,134 --> 00:42:49,274
he's done incredible things for

969
00:42:49,350 --> 00:42:49,640
Marko Papic: this.

970
00:42:49,759 --> 00:42:52,694
I view if this was like first term
Lula, he would've been top five.

971
00:42:52,814 --> 00:42:54,375
I'm hanging down the phone.

972
00:42:54,375 --> 00:42:55,694
I completely agree with you.

973
00:42:55,694 --> 00:42:58,845
But this is, this is like,
pick picking Michael.

974
00:42:58,875 --> 00:42:59,564
Uh, sorry.

975
00:42:59,805 --> 00:43:03,915
This is like picking LeBron
James in the top 20 trade value.

976
00:43:03,944 --> 00:43:08,564
I mean, yeah, he puts up the stats, but
you're looking at $56 million 39-year-old

977
00:43:08,564 --> 00:43:12,134
playing on knees that have seen, they
have gone around the world three times.

978
00:43:12,134 --> 00:43:13,214
You know, like, hey, hey

979
00:43:13,214 --> 00:43:14,504
Jacob Shapiro: La LeBron's
still pretty good there.

980
00:43:14,595 --> 00:43:17,504
Uh, I think it was on Zack Lowe's
podcast where they were rumoring,

981
00:43:17,504 --> 00:43:21,254
you know, uh, the Knicks might trade
Enobi and bridges and something else.

982
00:43:21,734 --> 00:43:21,944
Point.

983
00:43:21,944 --> 00:43:22,424
It's LeBron.

984
00:43:22,500 --> 00:43:23,924
LeBron can still take you places

985
00:43:24,285 --> 00:43:25,274
Marko Papic: under Noia bridges.

986
00:43:26,165 --> 00:43:27,935
IIA Bridges for LeBron James.

987
00:43:27,935 --> 00:43:28,025
Oh yeah.

988
00:43:28,835 --> 00:43:29,315
Come on.

989
00:43:29,315 --> 00:43:30,035
Jacob Shapiro: Wonderful player.

990
00:43:32,315 --> 00:43:33,215
I'll, I'll take Lula.

991
00:43:33,215 --> 00:43:35,465
I like, I like he's got,
he's got a tragic flaw.

992
00:43:35,465 --> 00:43:40,235
Like he could never, like, you know, most
of Brazil's congress is center, right?

993
00:43:40,235 --> 00:43:43,235
Like his dream of Brazil hasn't
necessarily come to pass, but I

994
00:43:43,235 --> 00:43:44,315
think Jacob's been a skilled leader.

995
00:43:44,495 --> 00:43:44,675
Yeah.

996
00:43:45,005 --> 00:43:46,535
Marko Papic: Jacob, this
is the way I see it.

997
00:43:46,625 --> 00:43:52,415
Uh, Tupac Shakur's career really goes
pre jail, post jail, you know, pre jail.

998
00:43:52,415 --> 00:43:54,965
He is writing basically American poetry.

999
00:43:55,175 --> 00:43:55,415
Right?

1000
00:43:55,415 --> 00:43:56,255
Changes.

1001
00:43:56,915 --> 00:44:01,115
Uh, dear mama, my letter to the
president, like, just fascinating.

1002
00:44:01,175 --> 00:44:02,015
Post jail.

1003
00:44:02,705 --> 00:44:03,065
Yes.

1004
00:44:03,065 --> 00:44:06,485
Some of that stuff is full of just smoke.

1005
00:44:07,050 --> 00:44:11,130
And anger and it comes outta the gut,
but it's like hit them up, you know?

1006
00:44:11,130 --> 00:44:13,740
It's not really, it's not poetry.

1007
00:44:14,009 --> 00:44:19,770
And so Lula to me, same as Tupac, there's
pre jail Lula, there's Pogel Lula.

1008
00:44:19,770 --> 00:44:21,480
And I think jail changed him, man.

1009
00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:24,870
I think he just became a bitter
populist, and that's just, I think

1010
00:44:24,870 --> 00:44:28,740
that Brazil will be very lucky, uh, to
get rid of him in the next election.

1011
00:44:28,740 --> 00:44:32,880
But, and again, that is not to say that
I disagree with anything you've said.

1012
00:44:32,970 --> 00:44:36,779
Absolute survivor and his first
term, like almost flawless, although

1013
00:44:36,779 --> 00:44:39,420
he was riding the coattails of
the Kaari bull market nonetheless.

1014
00:44:39,450 --> 00:44:42,029
No, nonetheless, I agree with you on that.

1015
00:44:42,060 --> 00:44:43,950
Um, but sorry, I interrupted you.

1016
00:44:44,009 --> 00:44:44,491
Well, no, no, no.

1017
00:44:44,515 --> 00:44:46,830
Jacob Shapiro: And I, and I often
say that Brazil reminds me the

1018
00:44:46,830 --> 00:44:49,350
most of, of any country in the
world that reminds me of the United

1019
00:44:49,350 --> 00:44:50,580
States in terms of its politics.

1020
00:44:50,580 --> 00:44:52,230
Brazil reminds me of the
United States the most.

1021
00:44:52,230 --> 00:44:52,320
Yes.

1022
00:44:52,350 --> 00:44:56,070
And there's an arc here where Lula becomes
the Joe Biden of Brazil, and where Mr.

1023
00:44:56,070 --> 00:44:58,470
Bolsonaro is, is waiting in the wings.

1024
00:44:58,470 --> 00:45:00,870
But, you know, if, if we had
been talking about Biden.

1025
00:45:01,605 --> 00:45:04,904
Before it was obvious that he was
senile, like 20, 21 version of

1026
00:45:04,904 --> 00:45:08,115
Biden like that, you know, I think
that's sort of where I'm going here.

1027
00:45:08,115 --> 00:45:10,904
But anyway, uh, rounding
up this section for me.

1028
00:45:10,904 --> 00:45:15,825
So at 19, I hate having him here, but I
don't think we can avoid Mr. Victor Orban.

1029
00:45:15,825 --> 00:45:15,884
I.

1030
00:45:16,380 --> 00:45:17,010
Marko Papic: Oh wow.

1031
00:45:17,010 --> 00:45:17,400
He has been

1032
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:19,380
Jacob Shapiro: in power
for quite some time.

1033
00:45:19,380 --> 00:45:21,180
He is certainly not a liberal.

1034
00:45:21,450 --> 00:45:26,280
Um, but I think also, uh, the, the
opposition in Hungary has demonized

1035
00:45:26,280 --> 00:45:27,690
him to an incredible extent.

1036
00:45:27,690 --> 00:45:30,450
He's been ahead on lots of different
things when it comes to geopolitics.

1037
00:45:30,450 --> 00:45:33,780
I think he's very, very smart and
excellent tactician like I would, and

1038
00:45:33,780 --> 00:45:35,460
he's, he's played the game very well.

1039
00:45:35,714 --> 00:45:38,025
In terms of geopolitics, he
saw the world being multipolar.

1040
00:45:38,025 --> 00:45:41,384
Well, before, before I was talking
about Multipolarity, Victor Orban

1041
00:45:41,384 --> 00:45:44,565
was preparing for multipolarity, so
he gets some props from me there,

1042
00:45:44,565 --> 00:45:46,485
but he's fundamentally a liberal.

1043
00:45:46,575 --> 00:45:49,065
Like there are places there, there
are countries that he just can't go

1044
00:45:49,065 --> 00:45:50,475
to because he cannot brook descent.

1045
00:45:50,475 --> 00:45:53,415
He's got that authoritarian instinct
in him, so he's got that tragic flaw.

1046
00:45:53,985 --> 00:45:54,705
Uh, 18.

1047
00:45:54,705 --> 00:45:57,795
You can feel the vibe of this
category now, Benjamin Netanyahu.

1048
00:45:58,505 --> 00:46:02,195
Another incredible tactician,
a politician's politician.

1049
00:46:02,195 --> 00:46:04,865
Nobody better at the
footwork like can do it all.

1050
00:46:04,865 --> 00:46:06,725
He is got, he can do the
right hand, the left hand.

1051
00:46:06,725 --> 00:46:09,065
He is got the jump hook, he is got
the three point shot, everything

1052
00:46:09,065 --> 00:46:12,185
else, and yet cares more about
himself than his own country.

1053
00:46:12,215 --> 00:46:12,305
Oh yeah.

1054
00:46:12,665 --> 00:46:16,235
And cares more about own
survival than anything else.

1055
00:46:16,235 --> 00:46:19,625
And that narcissism, like it makes
him such a great politician and he

1056
00:46:19,625 --> 00:46:22,625
can position his country, you know,
especially a country like Israel, which

1057
00:46:22,625 --> 00:46:26,705
isn't polarized and divided like he can
be a north star for that type of country.

1058
00:46:26,705 --> 00:46:28,235
But like a deep tragic flaw.

1059
00:46:28,235 --> 00:46:28,835
I don't think's legacy.

1060
00:46:28,835 --> 00:46:29,225
Do you know who's my,

1061
00:46:29,555 --> 00:46:32,765
Marko Papic: I think my comp for him
in basketball terms would probably

1062
00:46:32,765 --> 00:46:34,445
be Gilbert do arenas honestly.

1063
00:46:35,405 --> 00:46:35,690
There you go.

1064
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:37,025
Jacob Shapiro: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1065
00:46:37,325 --> 00:46:40,385
Right down to bringing the gun to the
locker room and uh, toting it around.

1066
00:46:40,385 --> 00:46:43,595
We've gotta get Iran guys, this is why
I've got the gun in the locker room.

1067
00:46:43,835 --> 00:46:44,135
Marko Papic: Yeah.

1068
00:46:44,675 --> 00:46:45,875
Dero basically, what's his name?

1069
00:46:45,875 --> 00:46:47,105
Critter's career.

1070
00:46:47,105 --> 00:46:47,525
Critter.

1071
00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:48,930
Jacob Shapiro: Yeah.

1072
00:46:48,930 --> 00:46:49,330
Javaris.

1073
00:46:49,655 --> 00:46:49,925
Yeah.

1074
00:46:49,925 --> 00:46:50,285
Whatever.

1075
00:46:50,435 --> 00:46:51,275
Yeah, he went to Georgia Tech.

1076
00:46:51,275 --> 00:46:51,965
I remember that.

1077
00:46:51,965 --> 00:46:53,375
So shout out Georgia Tech.

1078
00:46:53,735 --> 00:46:54,695
Well done David at seven.

1079
00:46:55,095 --> 00:46:56,865
At 17 Javier Millet.

1080
00:46:56,865 --> 00:46:57,255
Okay.

1081
00:46:58,005 --> 00:47:00,825
Uh, I, I, I assume based on what you
said, that he's higher up for you,

1082
00:47:00,825 --> 00:47:02,265
but maybe not that much higher up.

1083
00:47:02,745 --> 00:47:06,255
Um, again, I asked, uh, chat GPT
for a little help here in sort of,

1084
00:47:06,285 --> 00:47:09,105
uh, what the scouting report would
be and it spit back out to me.

1085
00:47:09,105 --> 00:47:11,325
Crypto Ron Paul meets Steve Jobs.

1086
00:47:11,865 --> 00:47:12,735
That was pretty Whoa.

1087
00:47:12,735 --> 00:47:13,545
Steve Jobs.

1088
00:47:13,660 --> 00:47:13,950
Marko Papic: Whoa.

1089
00:47:17,799 --> 00:47:21,279
Jacob Shapiro: Yeah, but like, and I,
I, I wanted to punish him a little bit

1090
00:47:21,279 --> 00:47:25,060
because I think his winning power was
actually more a function of Argentinians

1091
00:47:25,060 --> 00:47:28,419
just being fed up and they were looking
for the craziest thing possible.

1092
00:47:28,419 --> 00:47:30,460
And so they picked the
craziest thing possible.

1093
00:47:30,460 --> 00:47:34,569
But like early returns, he's shown himself
to be much more pragmatic than his dead

1094
00:47:34,569 --> 00:47:40,345
dog communing, uh, you know, chainsaw
wielding, uh, Mo would suggest I really

1095
00:47:40,345 --> 00:47:44,589
didn't like that weird crypto scam that he
was a part of or got taken for a ride for.

1096
00:47:44,589 --> 00:47:46,120
Like, that was a negative signal for me.

1097
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,549
And I think we're about to get into
the tough times for him, but I'm

1098
00:47:48,549 --> 00:47:50,410
interested enough that he's there at 17.

1099
00:47:50,740 --> 00:47:51,460
At 16.

1100
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:55,029
Mr. Erdogan, we've already talked
about you, Mr. Sultan, uh, so

1101
00:47:55,029 --> 00:47:56,109
we don't have to do more there.

1102
00:47:56,670 --> 00:47:58,290
And at number 15, the top of this list.

1103
00:47:58,290 --> 00:48:01,560
Again, lucky to have him, but we've
got some kind of tragic flaw here.

1104
00:48:01,560 --> 00:48:05,430
This also is about, you know, uh,
future projecting Narendra Modi

1105
00:48:05,430 --> 00:48:07,350
comes in right here at 15 for me.

1106
00:48:07,650 --> 00:48:11,190
Mm. Um, yeah, interest if this were, if
this were, if this were first term Modi,

1107
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,790
he's maybe Untouchables, like he's maybe
at the very, very top of this list, but

1108
00:48:14,790 --> 00:48:17,130
we're, in a third term, we're getting old.

1109
00:48:17,220 --> 00:48:20,220
Have we built something
beyond Modi's charisma that

1110
00:48:20,310 --> 00:48:22,080
allows the BJP to go forward?

1111
00:48:22,260 --> 00:48:23,010
I don't know.

1112
00:48:23,010 --> 00:48:25,920
He, he was very ambitious
about, have, about his reforms.

1113
00:48:25,950 --> 00:48:27,900
Not a whole heck of a
lot have gone through.

1114
00:48:27,900 --> 00:48:30,960
Some of them have, like we've, we've
harmonized taxes and we've done some

1115
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:34,200
good things, but like others we've
really haven't made progress on.

1116
00:48:34,200 --> 00:48:38,370
So I think he's, you know, MVP level
player, but we're in the twilight of our

1117
00:48:38,370 --> 00:48:40,770
career and we haven't quite gone through.

1118
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,770
Um, some of the things that we
thought that some people that need

1119
00:48:43,770 --> 00:48:46,170
to be this high on the list would
be, so he comes in at 15 for me.

1120
00:48:48,205 --> 00:48:50,275
Marko Papic: So if I was to take
a pause here and think about this,

1121
00:48:50,275 --> 00:48:54,355
I'm very surprised we don't have
much disagreement at our bottom,

1122
00:48:55,255 --> 00:48:57,745
you know, 10, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7.

1123
00:48:57,745 --> 00:49:02,815
So like in the bottom seven, uh, we
don't have that much disagreement.

1124
00:49:02,995 --> 00:49:03,295
Okay?

1125
00:49:03,295 --> 00:49:12,115
I didn't have Provo, uh, I didn't have
cc, um, um, or Ali, uh, in Ethiopia,

1126
00:49:12,115 --> 00:49:15,565
so, you know, but like Zer, Peja,
Germany, France, Rhonda, similarly

1127
00:49:15,565 --> 00:49:17,575
on my end, I mean, okay, fine.

1128
00:49:17,785 --> 00:49:20,095
Luka, Don Slovenia, sorry, Robert Gob.

1129
00:49:20,755 --> 00:49:23,725
Tus and Christ Christensen,
you don't have.

1130
00:49:25,385 --> 00:49:26,100
But not yet.

1131
00:49:26,550 --> 00:49:26,730
Yeah.

1132
00:49:26,730 --> 00:49:29,160
But there was a lot of, uh,
agreement, I think at the bottom.

1133
00:49:29,160 --> 00:49:29,220
Yeah.

1134
00:49:29,825 --> 00:49:31,285
Uh, I, I actually have a, oh,

1135
00:49:31,285 --> 00:49:33,480
Jacob Shapiro: and I also, I also
just wanted to say, I forgot to say

1136
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:35,970
this, like, 'cause we did say that
approval ratings mattered here.

1137
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:39,090
Norendra Modi has the highest
approval rating, uh, of all the

1138
00:49:39,090 --> 00:49:40,140
different, you know, leaders.

1139
00:49:40,140 --> 00:49:43,710
So he's got 77%, uh, melee at 62%.

1140
00:49:43,890 --> 00:49:46,140
Albee has a 54% approval rating.

1141
00:49:46,140 --> 00:49:48,090
So I, I overindexed him for there as well.

1142
00:49:48,090 --> 00:49:50,520
So there's a couple here that
got boosts for me based on that.

1143
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:54,300
Marko Papic: So I actually, now
that you've run off these out of

1144
00:49:54,300 --> 00:49:59,970
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, I've
got Modi, Tigan, and Millie.

1145
00:50:00,390 --> 00:50:02,220
I have osa, he's coming up.

1146
00:50:02,460 --> 00:50:02,550
Mm-hmm.

1147
00:50:02,945 --> 00:50:05,970
I don't have, uh, UK New Zealand, Brazil.

1148
00:50:05,970 --> 00:50:06,840
Hungary in Israel.

1149
00:50:07,050 --> 00:50:07,950
Um hmm.

1150
00:50:08,580 --> 00:50:11,670
I mean, no offense to the Anglosphere.

1151
00:50:11,670 --> 00:50:13,530
I think, you know, time will tell.

1152
00:50:13,530 --> 00:50:15,690
I just wasn't, uh, particularly impressed.

1153
00:50:15,690 --> 00:50:19,740
I guess I chose Albanese
instead of Starr, quite frankly.

1154
00:50:19,740 --> 00:50:21,360
Kind of both came at the same time.

1155
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:26,460
So, um, I think Albany's job is
tougher, quite frankly, but we'll see.

1156
00:50:26,940 --> 00:50:31,350
Lula disagree a lot, and then
Bibi and Victor, um, I get it.

1157
00:50:31,950 --> 00:50:36,990
I just, and especially in Ban's case,
I feel like I, I should have had him in

1158
00:50:36,990 --> 00:50:39,780
the top 30, so, um, I think you're right.

1159
00:50:40,710 --> 00:50:43,080
But on Bibi, you know,
you are absolutely right.

1160
00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:45,150
Just, he puts up incredible statistics.

1161
00:50:45,180 --> 00:50:46,890
He is, uh, an all star.

1162
00:50:47,820 --> 00:50:54,510
He is got the max contract, but he is a
chemistry killer and he's a team cancer.

1163
00:50:55,050 --> 00:50:57,990
What I mean by that is that I think
that everything that Netanyahu has done

1164
00:50:57,990 --> 00:51:03,510
over the last, you know, five years is
ultimately going to, uh, you know, it's

1165
00:51:03,510 --> 00:51:06,600
gonna be something that Israel will
be paying, uh, for a very long time.

1166
00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:10,350
So I, I definitely vociferously
disagree with that, but that's okay.

1167
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:11,100
That's good.

1168
00:51:11,250 --> 00:51:14,130
Let's go to the next,
uh, uh, next category.

1169
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:14,280
Okay.

1170
00:51:14,280 --> 00:51:18,390
So this is where I think our
disagreements, uh, well, no, no, no.

1171
00:51:18,390 --> 00:51:19,950
I think actually you're gonna
agree with a lot of these.

1172
00:51:20,010 --> 00:51:23,220
Uh, number 15 for me is raa.

1173
00:51:23,880 --> 00:51:25,140
This is a deep take.

1174
00:51:25,140 --> 00:51:26,460
Deep take my friend.

1175
00:51:26,460 --> 00:51:26,880
Jacob Shapiro: Deep take.

1176
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:27,240
Yeah.

1177
00:51:27,270 --> 00:51:27,690
Marko Papic: Yes.

1178
00:51:27,690 --> 00:51:29,130
Leader of Albania.

1179
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:30,330
Okay.

1180
00:51:30,390 --> 00:51:37,620
Um, and yes, someone born in Serbia has
picked an Albanian leader as top 15.

1181
00:51:38,040 --> 00:51:41,220
Um, that's a head nod to all
our Armenian friends who are

1182
00:51:41,220 --> 00:51:42,540
gonna be mad at us about Aliev.

1183
00:51:42,540 --> 00:51:44,910
Just like, Hey, if I can pick
Eddie Rama, you know, you guys

1184
00:51:44,910 --> 00:51:46,500
can chill with, uh, aliev.

1185
00:51:47,415 --> 00:51:52,065
Great navigation of a complicated
region, uh, has found new sources of

1186
00:51:52,065 --> 00:51:56,355
economic prosperity for Albania, Albania,
particularly tourism, just like exploding.

1187
00:51:56,385 --> 00:51:59,925
It's like, it's like what Portugal
was like five, 10 years ago.

1188
00:51:59,955 --> 00:52:01,065
That's Albania today.

1189
00:52:01,365 --> 00:52:02,295
Very well done.

1190
00:52:02,355 --> 00:52:07,635
Um, and the other thing is that has
great relationship with everyone in

1191
00:52:07,635 --> 00:52:11,055
the region, including with Serbia,
like really well done and has

1192
00:52:11,055 --> 00:52:13,275
completed more EU chapters than Serbia.

1193
00:52:13,275 --> 00:52:18,525
So closer to integration than, um,
a country that's, I mean, you know,

1194
00:52:18,555 --> 00:52:20,415
like objectively speaking, just I.

1195
00:52:20,940 --> 00:52:23,490
Far more modern economically.

1196
00:52:23,550 --> 00:52:28,830
And from an industrial's perspective,
Albania started off much worse in 1990 as

1197
00:52:28,830 --> 00:52:30,840
the co collapse of Communism than Serbia.

1198
00:52:30,840 --> 00:52:34,020
I mean, like, much worse they weren't
even aligned with the Soviet Bloc.

1199
00:52:34,020 --> 00:52:36,660
You know, their only ally
was like Maoist, China.

1200
00:52:37,380 --> 00:52:40,170
Um, so, uh, really well
done, really impressed.

1201
00:52:40,170 --> 00:52:43,830
And by the way, this, this category
for me is diamonds under pressure.

1202
00:52:43,830 --> 00:52:47,490
So I'm picking a lot of, uh, leaders
who have done something with nothing.

1203
00:52:47,490 --> 00:52:52,740
So there's ra then Cyril Osa,
I have him here, so he's 14

1204
00:52:52,740 --> 00:52:55,260
for me and he is 21 for you.

1205
00:52:55,590 --> 00:52:58,710
So pretty much, uh, you know,
we're in alignment there in line.

1206
00:52:59,070 --> 00:52:59,220
Yeah.

1207
00:53:00,360 --> 00:53:02,070
13, this is controversial.

1208
00:53:02,730 --> 00:53:05,790
All of our liberal listeners will
hate me for it, although quite

1209
00:53:05,790 --> 00:53:07,380
frankly, you pick Bibi and Orban.

1210
00:53:07,380 --> 00:53:08,910
So like, gimme a break, right?

1211
00:53:08,910 --> 00:53:10,860
Jacob Shapiro: If, if our liberal
listeners are gonna hate us for that,

1212
00:53:10,860 --> 00:53:12,300
there's, there's worse to come guys.

1213
00:53:12,630 --> 00:53:14,940
Marko Papic: There's worse
to, oh yes, there is, there's

1214
00:53:14,940 --> 00:53:15,930
absolutely worse to come.

1215
00:53:16,110 --> 00:53:17,345
Uh, naive ell it.

1216
00:53:18,390 --> 00:53:19,620
Jacob Shapiro: Oh, okay.

1217
00:53:19,950 --> 00:53:20,310
Marko Papic: Yes.

1218
00:53:20,339 --> 00:53:20,640
Jacob Shapiro: Great.

1219
00:53:21,029 --> 00:53:24,059
Marko Papic: Uh, look, PR
value alone, like El Salvador,

1220
00:53:24,779 --> 00:53:26,790
we're talking about a guy.

1221
00:53:27,120 --> 00:53:30,359
We're, we're openly discussing
somebody who was, who's in charge of

1222
00:53:30,359 --> 00:53:34,589
El Salvador, and not because of some
like, you know, terrible civil war.

1223
00:53:34,589 --> 00:53:35,580
So that's number one.

1224
00:53:35,940 --> 00:53:40,319
Second, everyone who's from Central
America and Latin America that I know

1225
00:53:40,319 --> 00:53:44,129
and that has been to El Salvador or
lived there, basically argues that that

1226
00:53:44,129 --> 00:53:48,930
country was absolutely unlivable before
B And he has solved that with brutality,

1227
00:53:49,020 --> 00:53:52,470
absolutely, but also ruthless efficiency.

1228
00:53:53,310 --> 00:53:58,259
And then, um, you know, I mean,
uh, perfect man for the era.

1229
00:53:59,339 --> 00:54:02,339
He, uh, he linked his country.

1230
00:54:03,630 --> 00:54:08,580
To Bt C to Bitcoin at 40,000, you
know, doesn't look so stupid anymore.

1231
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:14,370
Uh, he wears futuristic cardillo
suits as my dear friend Juan Correra.

1232
00:54:14,370 --> 00:54:17,160
Shout out to him 'cause he,
uh, he definitely agreed with

1233
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:19,500
this pick, um, would say.

1234
00:54:19,500 --> 00:54:23,640
And ultimately, um, I think just,
you know, I think there's too

1235
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:26,670
much indexing on what he's done
on Bitcoin, I think not enough

1236
00:54:26,790 --> 00:54:29,310
indexing on what he's done on crime.

1237
00:54:30,030 --> 00:54:34,080
And if you don't like Trump and so
you don't like the fact that he's so

1238
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:36,450
pro-Trump, just look at it this way.

1239
00:54:36,450 --> 00:54:38,460
I mean, he picked the right winner.

1240
00:54:39,240 --> 00:54:42,960
Being a leader of a central American
country ultimately comes down to being

1241
00:54:42,960 --> 00:54:45,900
on the right side of the United States
of America, because it's the giant in

1242
00:54:45,900 --> 00:54:47,670
the, it's the elephant in the room.

1243
00:54:47,670 --> 00:54:49,470
So I think he's done very well.

1244
00:54:49,470 --> 00:54:50,370
I've got Malay, hold on.

1245
00:54:50,759 --> 00:54:51,121
Jacob Shapiro: Wait, wait, wait.

1246
00:54:51,210 --> 00:54:53,009
I, I wanna, I wanna pause
you right there, Marco.

1247
00:54:53,009 --> 00:54:55,320
'cause I, I, I don't wanna step on
this too much, but we should say that

1248
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:58,110
maybe Bhel is number one on my list.

1249
00:54:58,110 --> 00:54:59,759
He is UNT tradable.

1250
00:54:59,759 --> 00:55:02,040
He is the top of the,
he is the apex for me.

1251
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:02,130
There

1252
00:55:03,150 --> 00:55:03,210
Marko Papic: go.

1253
00:55:03,210 --> 00:55:03,211
Wow.

1254
00:55:03,660 --> 00:55:04,020
Wow.

1255
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:07,080
I mean, hey, listen, I don't disagree.

1256
00:55:07,080 --> 00:55:12,660
His use of media pr uh, reveals a deep
knowledge of where the world is going.

1257
00:55:12,930 --> 00:55:16,950
And, uh, yeah, man, I mean, again, if
he, if he can put El Salvador on the map,

1258
00:55:18,570 --> 00:55:21,240
Jacob Shapiro: he got rid of
crime in El Salvador, period.

1259
00:55:21,900 --> 00:55:23,850
Like, like, they're like,
who else is doing that?

1260
00:55:23,850 --> 00:55:24,210
You think?

1261
00:55:24,210 --> 00:55:28,259
You think El Salvador is trading
anyone for bouquet on this list?

1262
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,740
No, they're very happy with the guy who
gave 'em their country back and allowed

1263
00:55:31,740 --> 00:55:32,790
them to walk in the streets again.

1264
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:34,620
Marko Papic: Wow.

1265
00:55:34,710 --> 00:55:34,920
Yeah.

1266
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:40,170
My, my dear friend Juan, he's the head of,
uh, asset allocation at BC Research and

1267
00:55:40,170 --> 00:55:47,580
also my co-owner of the Cali Fornication
basketball team in the JBL Fantasy League.

1268
00:55:48,240 --> 00:55:51,540
He picked him number one, two,
and I respect one so much so that

1269
00:55:51,540 --> 00:55:55,800
we share a basketball franchise
in the Dreamland universe that

1270
00:55:55,800 --> 00:55:57,540
is the Fantasy Sports League.

1271
00:55:57,540 --> 00:55:58,590
So well done.

1272
00:55:59,280 --> 00:55:59,430
Alright.

1273
00:55:59,460 --> 00:55:59,790
Alright.

1274
00:55:59,820 --> 00:56:00,000
Sorry.

1275
00:56:00,030 --> 00:56:01,740
Uh, I got Malay number 12.

1276
00:56:03,030 --> 00:56:05,610
Uh, I think he's been, uh, amazing.

1277
00:56:06,450 --> 00:56:09,385
Um, unbelievable charisma.

1278
00:56:10,275 --> 00:56:13,575
He managed to get the Argentinians to
agree with tightening your belt belts.

1279
00:56:13,575 --> 00:56:17,745
Your point about Argentina was, at this
point anyways, that's true, but he's also

1280
00:56:17,745 --> 00:56:21,135
managed to do it in a correct sequence
by not opening up the capital account

1281
00:56:21,135 --> 00:56:22,785
too quickly, which was very important.

1282
00:56:23,175 --> 00:56:27,825
Uh, making sure that the reforms
first take hold and then discussing

1283
00:56:27,975 --> 00:56:32,775
about, uh, lessening capital controls
something that mockery got wrong.

1284
00:56:32,775 --> 00:56:34,335
So mockery got the sequencing wrong.

1285
00:56:34,365 --> 00:56:34,635
Mm-hmm.

1286
00:56:34,875 --> 00:56:36,975
Number 11, Abdullah II of Jordan.

1287
00:56:36,975 --> 00:56:38,475
Mm-hmm.

1288
00:56:38,481 --> 00:56:42,495
The degree of difficulty, the diff
degree of difficulty for a leading

1289
00:56:42,495 --> 00:56:44,625
Jordan right now is absolutely insane.

1290
00:56:45,165 --> 00:56:48,855
Um, this is, uh, you know, this is
like a basketball player that just

1291
00:56:48,855 --> 00:56:54,975
pulls his crappy team into the playoffs
as a seven seed all by himself.

1292
00:56:55,605 --> 00:57:01,425
Um, and quite frankly, uh, the
security of Israel is more tied to

1293
00:57:01,515 --> 00:57:04,095
Abdullah II's leadership of Jordan.

1294
00:57:04,725 --> 00:57:07,515
To what Benjamin Netanyahu
is doing, quite frankly.

1295
00:57:07,515 --> 00:57:13,185
So, uh, Israelis should praise him for
his cool and collected demeanor that yes,

1296
00:57:13,185 --> 00:57:18,195
it's become rhetorically increasingly
anti-Israeli, but you have to sympathize

1297
00:57:18,195 --> 00:57:20,025
for him, as we have talked about before.

1298
00:57:20,415 --> 00:57:21,525
So that's my number 11.

1299
00:57:23,475 --> 00:57:27,015
Jacob Shapiro: Alright, my next, my
next list takes me from 14 to seven.

1300
00:57:27,015 --> 00:57:30,285
So this is a big one and for me,
I thought of this, um, category as

1301
00:57:30,645 --> 00:57:32,384
I'm hanging up, but not right away.

1302
00:57:32,505 --> 00:57:34,965
Like, I'm gonna listen for a little
bit and then I'm gonna hang up.

1303
00:57:35,025 --> 00:57:36,674
Uh, so some of these are rising stars.

1304
00:57:36,674 --> 00:57:38,174
Some of these are high
functioning technocrats.

1305
00:57:38,174 --> 00:57:39,795
Some of these are elite,
uh, elite lieutenants.

1306
00:57:39,795 --> 00:57:42,525
And I think the ones that will be
most controversial are 14 and 13.

1307
00:57:42,555 --> 00:57:45,705
'cause the rest are ones that we've
mostly already talked about at 14.

1308
00:57:46,185 --> 00:57:49,515
Uh, SHA Kat MiEV of Uzbekistan.

1309
00:57:50,325 --> 00:57:50,715
Um.

1310
00:57:51,075 --> 00:57:52,965
This is where I'm gonna
go, like really deep.

1311
00:57:53,025 --> 00:57:54,195
I'm gonna cut really deep here.

1312
00:57:54,195 --> 00:57:59,775
But this is a guy who took over for one of
the most retrograde dictatorships in the

1313
00:57:59,775 --> 00:58:03,945
post-Soviet world, um, and has, I mean,
he has not made it a democracy, but he

1314
00:58:03,945 --> 00:58:07,845
has opened up and liberalized Uzbekistan
to a degree that nobody thought possible.

1315
00:58:07,845 --> 00:58:10,665
He's been able to keep Uzbekistan
out of the clutches of Islamic

1316
00:58:10,665 --> 00:58:12,255
fundamentalism and everything else.

1317
00:58:12,255 --> 00:58:16,065
He has not gone too far down
the road with, uh, Russia or

1318
00:58:16,065 --> 00:58:17,385
with China or the United States.

1319
00:58:17,385 --> 00:58:19,815
He has played all these things
different, uh, very well.

1320
00:58:20,115 --> 00:58:23,145
Um, I was in Tash Kent in 2019.

1321
00:58:23,385 --> 00:58:26,265
Uh, you know, uh, everybody
there was of course going to

1322
00:58:26,265 --> 00:58:27,285
make it seem like they loved him.

1323
00:58:27,285 --> 00:58:31,125
But everyone I talked to from Uzbekistan,
when they think about MOV before and re

1324
00:58:31,125 --> 00:58:32,715
you have now, they're like, he's great.

1325
00:58:32,985 --> 00:58:33,585
We love him.

1326
00:58:33,735 --> 00:58:34,365
He's competent.

1327
00:58:34,365 --> 00:58:34,695
My.

1328
00:58:34,865 --> 00:58:38,285
Uber driver to JFK Airport two
weeks ago was from Uzbekistan.

1329
00:58:38,285 --> 00:58:40,535
And when I, when I asked
him about Shaka Zi, yeah.

1330
00:58:40,535 --> 00:58:42,755
First he was like, I can't believe
you know who that is, and let

1331
00:58:42,755 --> 00:58:43,865
me tell you how great he is.

1332
00:58:43,865 --> 00:58:47,555
We are so happy to have a competent leader
at the head of the Uzbekistan state.

1333
00:58:47,555 --> 00:58:48,510
So that's where he, that's

1334
00:58:48,510 --> 00:58:48,710
Marko Papic: important.

1335
00:58:48,995 --> 00:58:50,015
That's an important empiric.

1336
00:58:50,020 --> 00:58:50,230
Yeah.

1337
00:58:50,705 --> 00:58:51,005
Yeah.

1338
00:58:51,605 --> 00:58:52,565
Jacob Shapiro: Um, 13.

1339
00:58:52,715 --> 00:58:56,645
This, my bias is getting involved
here, but she, I'm a really big

1340
00:58:56,645 --> 00:58:59,255
fan of Shigeru Ishiba in Japan.

1341
00:58:59,435 --> 00:58:59,645
Marko Papic: Hmm.

1342
00:58:59,645 --> 00:59:00,035
Jacob Shapiro: Interesting.

1343
00:59:00,065 --> 00:59:00,950
Um, he's, wow.

1344
00:59:01,070 --> 00:59:02,375
I have a soft spot for him.

1345
00:59:02,735 --> 00:59:06,065
Um, I, I talked to our friend Tobias
Harris, not the basketball player,

1346
00:59:06,065 --> 00:59:09,455
but uh, the Great Japan analyst, uh,
and talked about Ishiba as sort of a

1347
00:59:09,455 --> 00:59:13,115
tragic hero, heroic figure who's gonna
pursue something and not get there,

1348
00:59:13,115 --> 00:59:15,815
but that will make him all the more
of a Japanese hero because of it.

1349
00:59:16,385 --> 00:59:17,495
Um, yeah.

1350
00:59:17,495 --> 00:59:20,705
I, I just, I like his policies
and I like what he's trying to do.

1351
00:59:20,705 --> 00:59:23,735
I'll also say like, he came in in
a minority government with really,

1352
00:59:23,735 --> 00:59:24,965
really low approval ratings.

1353
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:28,560
But he's getting stuff done and his
approval ratings are slowly ticking up.

1354
00:59:28,560 --> 00:59:32,670
So if he inherits this mess in Japanese
politics and takes it to a position

1355
00:59:32,910 --> 00:59:35,580
where he's in charge and he's pushing
back against the United States and

1356
00:59:35,580 --> 00:59:38,610
the trade war, and he is trying to
figure out the balance between China

1357
00:59:38,940 --> 00:59:42,120
and the United States and what's
going on with Taiwan, like a very,

1358
00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:43,500
very high degree of difficulty.

1359
00:59:43,500 --> 00:59:45,000
And I think he's doing a great job.

1360
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:48,900
Um, and then the rest, the rest of
rounding, rounding up this list,

1361
00:59:48,930 --> 00:59:51,270
uh, here is Met Freson at 12.

1362
00:59:51,450 --> 00:59:51,750
Oh, okay.

1363
00:59:51,750 --> 00:59:52,980
Here is at 11.

1364
00:59:52,980 --> 00:59:55,380
We've got, uh, I don't know how to
pronounce her name actually, but it's

1365
00:59:55,380 --> 00:59:57,630
the leader of Estonia, Kaja, Kaja.

1366
00:59:57,690 --> 00:59:58,020
I don't know.

1367
00:59:58,025 --> 00:59:58,257
Kaja, you know.

1368
00:59:59,025 --> 01:00:01,515
I don't know, but she
comes in here as well.

1369
01:00:01,845 --> 01:00:05,505
Um, I had your Swiss, uh,
Swiss leader at number 10.

1370
01:00:05,835 --> 01:00:08,265
Uh, again, I went to chat GPT
for this, and they described

1371
01:00:08,265 --> 01:00:09,825
her as Switzerland's Popovich.

1372
01:00:09,945 --> 01:00:10,995
That sounded pretty good to me.

1373
01:00:10,995 --> 01:00:13,035
That was enough to convince
me that she belongs there.

1374
01:00:13,305 --> 01:00:16,695
Uh, but I take your point that that's
sort of a boring pick, like, uh, anyway,

1375
01:00:16,695 --> 01:00:20,925
but I, I had her there at 10 and then
Albanese at nine, Kearney at eight, and

1376
01:00:20,925 --> 01:00:23,115
Lawrence Wong coming in at number seven.

1377
01:00:23,340 --> 01:00:27,090
So all countries that I think
have high degrees of difficulty,

1378
01:00:27,090 --> 01:00:28,440
really, really skilled leadership.

1379
01:00:28,440 --> 01:00:30,780
Some of them are technocrats,
some of them are rising stars.

1380
01:00:30,780 --> 01:00:32,220
Some of them just know how to do things.

1381
01:00:32,220 --> 01:00:36,150
But all people that, you know, you'll
listen about trading, but ultimately,

1382
01:00:36,150 --> 01:00:38,760
like you're gonna look at what you
got and be like, I'm pretty good.

1383
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:41,460
I don't think I need to make a
trade here because this person has

1384
01:00:41,460 --> 01:00:42,780
got the situation under control.

1385
01:00:44,550 --> 01:00:44,820
Marko Papic: Yeah.

1386
01:00:44,820 --> 01:00:46,470
So Singapore, Canada, and Australia.

1387
01:00:46,470 --> 01:00:47,670
7, 8, 9. Interesting.

1388
01:00:47,670 --> 01:00:49,980
Switzerland, 10, uh, Estonia 11.

1389
01:00:50,040 --> 01:00:53,640
Um, yeah, it was tough for me to
give these countries that, uh, that

1390
01:00:53,640 --> 01:00:56,340
put them that high because they're
just such well run countries.

1391
01:00:56,340 --> 01:00:59,580
You know, it goes back to that Warren
Buffet quote, I want to invest in

1392
01:00:59,580 --> 01:01:01,590
countries that even an idiot could run.

1393
01:01:01,590 --> 01:01:05,070
So to what extent does it
matter who's in charge of them?

1394
01:01:05,070 --> 01:01:05,910
But I think mm-hmm.

1395
01:01:06,150 --> 01:01:06,445
Uh, it's fair.

1396
01:01:06,570 --> 01:01:08,040
I mean, I have three of them there.

1397
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:12,660
I don't have Estonia and Switzerland,
but, um, you know, I, I don't disagree.

1398
01:01:12,870 --> 01:01:13,950
Japan is interesting.

1399
01:01:13,980 --> 01:01:16,560
Uh, we started doing this a month ago.

1400
01:01:18,884 --> 01:01:23,355
And I should have updated my list because
the way that Japanese trade negotiations

1401
01:01:23,355 --> 01:01:27,674
with us have gone is very interesting
and suggests to me that you are right.

1402
01:01:27,734 --> 01:01:29,895
There is something in Ishiba
that's really interesting.

1403
01:01:29,895 --> 01:01:33,915
I mean, they've really played
hardball to the extent that I

1404
01:01:33,915 --> 01:01:35,415
think no other country really has.

1405
01:01:36,045 --> 01:01:36,165
Yeah.

1406
01:01:36,170 --> 01:01:36,790
And so, and,

1407
01:01:36,790 --> 01:01:38,924
Jacob Shapiro: and his approval
ratings were in the toilet a month ago.

1408
01:01:38,924 --> 01:01:41,865
He is slowly starting to crawl
out of the, out of the basement.

1409
01:01:41,865 --> 01:01:43,095
Marko Papic: Super respect, all of that.

1410
01:01:43,095 --> 01:01:47,654
And I think that you've, uh, you
picked somebody who's had a tough time

1411
01:01:47,654 --> 01:01:49,395
and, and their their real potential.

1412
01:01:49,395 --> 01:01:50,685
I agree with you, Uzbekistan.

1413
01:01:50,745 --> 01:01:53,325
Um, I thought about it
actually, uh, shockingly.

1414
01:01:53,715 --> 01:01:55,635
But I picked somebody else in the region.

1415
01:01:55,635 --> 01:01:55,665
Okay.

1416
01:01:55,785 --> 01:01:59,055
Uh, I've, I picked somebody else
and I'll, I'll get to that because

1417
01:01:59,055 --> 01:02:00,765
he's very high up on my list.

1418
01:02:01,185 --> 01:02:01,515
Alright.

1419
01:02:01,545 --> 01:02:03,765
So, so I respect that.

1420
01:02:03,885 --> 01:02:07,665
Uh, I just didn't think that two central
Asian countries really made sense.

1421
01:02:08,145 --> 01:02:10,335
It was like two stands,
like, come on guys.

1422
01:02:10,335 --> 01:02:13,905
And if you, you know, if you count
Jose Peja is sort of like part of that

1423
01:02:13,905 --> 01:02:16,755
whole post-Soviet space, it would've
been a little bit too much and weird.

1424
01:02:16,755 --> 01:02:19,755
So I, I, I, I, you know, head tip to you.

1425
01:02:19,755 --> 01:02:21,435
I think you picked really well.

1426
01:02:22,305 --> 01:02:23,595
Alright, close it out.

1427
01:02:24,255 --> 01:02:25,515
Let's close it out, my friend.

1428
01:02:25,575 --> 01:02:28,845
Um, number 10, Pedro Sanchez, Spain.

1429
01:02:28,875 --> 01:02:30,435
I think we're gonna disagree on this.

1430
01:02:30,435 --> 01:02:30,945
We talked about

1431
01:02:31,575 --> 01:02:31,815
Jacob Shapiro: it.

1432
01:02:31,815 --> 01:02:32,535
We are, we are chat.

1433
01:02:32,535 --> 01:02:35,205
GPT kept on saying, do you want
Pedro Sanchez on your list?

1434
01:02:35,205 --> 01:02:36,645
And I kept saying, no chat.

1435
01:02:36,645 --> 01:02:39,555
GPT get this Spanish
incompetent guy off of my list.

1436
01:02:39,555 --> 01:02:40,845
I don't want him tell me why he is there.

1437
01:02:41,115 --> 01:02:43,545
Marko Papic: Well, look, I mean,
uh, you haven't heard anything about

1438
01:02:43,545 --> 01:02:45,105
separatism in Spain for a while.

1439
01:02:45,585 --> 01:02:47,085
Uh, and I think that's important.

1440
01:02:47,175 --> 01:02:52,365
Um, I think he's carved out a very bold
foreign policy, uh, you know, led on,

1441
01:02:52,425 --> 01:02:57,135
uh, Israel, uh, in a very, in a way
that obviously nobody who is pro-Israel

1442
01:02:57,135 --> 01:03:00,795
is gonna like, but differentiated
Spanish foreign Pol policy for the

1443
01:03:00,795 --> 01:03:02,505
first time since like the eighties.

1444
01:03:03,045 --> 01:03:04,455
So that was interesting as well.

1445
01:03:04,455 --> 01:03:08,055
And then ultimately the economy
is extremely successful, uh, is

1446
01:03:08,055 --> 01:03:09,855
absolutely crushing the region.

1447
01:03:10,245 --> 01:03:12,375
Uh, so he is high on my list now.

1448
01:03:12,405 --> 01:03:14,535
Is it because of him, the economy?

1449
01:03:14,535 --> 01:03:18,315
No, but he hasn't gotten in the way and
that is important, especially in Europe.

1450
01:03:18,435 --> 01:03:21,795
So he's very high on my list just
because Spain is the best performing

1451
01:03:21,795 --> 01:03:23,955
economy effectively in the, your area.

1452
01:03:24,345 --> 01:03:29,055
Um, and then we get into four names.

1453
01:03:29,115 --> 01:03:33,315
I feel like you're not going to agree
with based on our previous discussions.

1454
01:03:33,855 --> 01:03:36,195
Um, let's put it this way, uh.

1455
01:03:37,484 --> 01:03:40,154
Like, think of us as
different coaching systems.

1456
01:03:40,154 --> 01:03:44,565
You know, you might be modern, you
know, uh, spread offense where you

1457
01:03:44,565 --> 01:03:48,044
just want to do layups and three
pointers and you believe in analytics.

1458
01:03:48,404 --> 01:03:50,625
And I'm an old school guy
who wants a post play.

1459
01:03:51,585 --> 01:03:51,944
Jacob Shapiro: So I'm

1460
01:03:51,944 --> 01:03:52,274
Marko Papic: gonna go,

1461
01:03:52,515 --> 01:03:54,345
Jacob Shapiro: I'm, I'm, I'm more
like the triangle offense and I

1462
01:03:54,345 --> 01:03:56,535
want the guy with the drum and
the corner and the piece pipe.

1463
01:03:56,535 --> 01:03:58,395
I wanna do Phil Jackson's
version of coaching.

1464
01:03:58,395 --> 01:03:58,935
That's me, right?

1465
01:03:59,115 --> 01:03:59,535
Marko Papic: That's you.

1466
01:03:59,535 --> 01:03:59,805
Okay.

1467
01:03:59,805 --> 01:04:03,345
Well, I'm going with like just
old school, like post players.

1468
01:04:03,375 --> 01:04:07,544
These guys are not in favor, no one
is going to probably agree with this.

1469
01:04:08,115 --> 01:04:11,984
Uh, but if you go to any one of
these countries, just like your

1470
01:04:11,984 --> 01:04:16,544
example with Uzbekistan, you go
to any of these countries, you're

1471
01:04:16,544 --> 01:04:17,924
gonna find nothing but support.

1472
01:04:17,924 --> 01:04:20,685
And yes, maybe that's because people
who don't support them are in jail.

1473
01:04:21,674 --> 01:04:22,335
Maybe.

1474
01:04:23,190 --> 01:04:25,710
Maybe, but I would say it genuine.

1475
01:04:25,714 --> 01:04:25,734
Some,

1476
01:04:25,770 --> 01:04:27,120
Jacob Shapiro: some people
need to be in jail, you know?

1477
01:04:29,220 --> 01:04:31,259
Marko Papic: Alright, number nine.

1478
01:04:31,259 --> 01:04:32,370
So this is top 10.

1479
01:04:32,370 --> 01:04:33,180
Sultan.

1480
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:35,640
Binta Al Sayid.

1481
01:04:36,029 --> 01:04:36,569
Oman.

1482
01:04:37,350 --> 01:04:38,220
Oman baby.

1483
01:04:38,790 --> 01:04:39,540
You love Oman.

1484
01:04:39,540 --> 01:04:39,750
Yeah.

1485
01:04:39,870 --> 01:04:42,359
Transformation of the country is stunning.

1486
01:04:42,779 --> 01:04:47,370
I mean, we're talking a country that, you
know, didn't have basic, basic services

1487
01:04:47,460 --> 01:04:51,210
like that, needed to hire like accountants
to set up its sovereign wealth fund.

1488
01:04:51,930 --> 01:04:55,830
And, um, it's really harder to
find a smaller country that's

1489
01:04:55,830 --> 01:04:57,660
doing more for global peace.

1490
01:04:58,529 --> 01:05:03,330
It's hosted a number of negotiations
between other powers, not because

1491
01:05:03,330 --> 01:05:07,770
they're just a nice beach side location,
but because they've made an effort to

1492
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:11,399
improve the situation in the Middle East.

1493
01:05:12,210 --> 01:05:18,629
Then after that, Sheikh Mohammed
bin, Al U ae transformed the

1494
01:05:18,629 --> 01:05:20,040
country into what it is today.

1495
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:21,960
Incredible, incredible effort.

1496
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:24,720
It used to just be oil
and tourism in Dubai.

1497
01:05:25,560 --> 01:05:26,760
It's not just that anymore.

1498
01:05:26,760 --> 01:05:30,060
It's starting to rival Hong Kong
and Singapore as the alternative for

1499
01:05:30,090 --> 01:05:31,950
emerging market financial capital flows.

1500
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:35,760
Abu Dhabi is absolutely
exploding as a financial capital.

1501
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:38,250
There's advanced
manufacturing in the country.

1502
01:05:38,250 --> 01:05:40,770
Do you know that They
make air airplane parts?

1503
01:05:41,190 --> 01:05:42,690
It's part of the supply chain.

1504
01:05:42,750 --> 01:05:44,550
Uh, it has AI advances.

1505
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:48,000
It's, um, it's becoming a
very, very interesting place.

1506
01:05:48,000 --> 01:05:51,120
And you mentioned something about city
states in a couple of, uh, episodes.

1507
01:05:51,150 --> 01:05:51,270
Mm-hmm.

1508
01:05:51,720 --> 01:05:54,180
You know, like this is,
this is interesting.

1509
01:05:54,210 --> 01:05:58,710
And the application of AI in UAE
is going to be very, very dramatic

1510
01:05:58,740 --> 01:05:59,790
and I think quite interesting.

1511
01:05:59,790 --> 01:06:01,980
So UAE makes my eight spots.

1512
01:06:02,040 --> 01:06:06,750
Then this is where all the liberals
that are listening that are still here.

1513
01:06:06,990 --> 01:06:11,160
You know, I mean, uh, for all your
liberals listening, just remember.

1514
01:06:11,580 --> 01:06:13,260
Jacob Shapiro picked Orban.

1515
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:14,040
Okay.

1516
01:06:14,670 --> 01:06:14,970
Yeah.

1517
01:06:14,970 --> 01:06:15,240
I'm also

1518
01:06:15,240 --> 01:06:16,860
Jacob Shapiro: not saying, I,
I'm not saying I wanna live

1519
01:06:16,860 --> 01:06:17,940
under the thumb of these guys.

1520
01:06:17,940 --> 01:06:20,790
We're just talking about in the abstract
of who would you trade leaders for.

1521
01:06:20,790 --> 01:06:23,100
You know, I genuinely, like, I'm not
trying to live under naive b even

1522
01:06:23,100 --> 01:06:24,150
though he is number one on the list.

1523
01:06:24,480 --> 01:06:28,020
Marko Papic: I genuinely would pick
up the phone and trade our leader of

1524
01:06:28,020 --> 01:06:30,000
any country for Mohammed bin Salman.

1525
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:34,125
Did t taunt with Iran.

1526
01:06:34,800 --> 01:06:35,610
Just said, you know what?

1527
01:06:35,610 --> 01:06:38,160
I just really don't care about
the Shia Sunni split, bro.

1528
01:06:38,580 --> 01:06:42,780
So you can have whatever you want
because I care about the socioeconomic

1529
01:06:42,780 --> 01:06:44,160
reorientation of the entire country.

1530
01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:48,750
We've talked about this, uh, uh,
before, uh, you know, he might be number

1531
01:06:48,750 --> 01:06:52,620
one on my list, but I do think the
Khashoggi affair was a huge on goal.

1532
01:06:53,370 --> 01:06:57,840
But since then, I mean, if you look at
where Saudi Arabia was in 2015 on any

1533
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:01,500
number of indicators and where it is
today, it is absolutely night and day.

1534
01:07:01,500 --> 01:07:03,240
It was practically defenseless.

1535
01:07:03,510 --> 01:07:05,430
It was mirrored in endless wars.

1536
01:07:05,430 --> 01:07:08,820
It stuck in a fundamentalist doom loop.

1537
01:07:09,524 --> 01:07:12,194
The country has been
absolutely transformed.

1538
01:07:12,285 --> 01:07:15,705
And uh, what I like about it
is that he has big dreams,

1539
01:07:16,214 --> 01:07:17,625
you know, like, like Biggie.

1540
01:07:18,584 --> 01:07:20,924
He's got big dreams.

1541
01:07:21,165 --> 01:07:22,754
Is he gonna accomplish them?

1542
01:07:22,964 --> 01:07:23,865
Yeah, probably not.

1543
01:07:23,865 --> 01:07:27,899
But when your North Star is actually
a big dream, you might get 30% of

1544
01:07:27,899 --> 01:07:29,115
it and still improve the country.

1545
01:07:29,115 --> 01:07:33,194
And, you know what, who has
big dreams anymore on our list?

1546
01:07:33,285 --> 01:07:34,604
Tell me who the dreamers are.

1547
01:07:34,604 --> 01:07:37,935
What's Benjamin Netanyahu's dream
other than not going to jail, you know?

1548
01:07:38,415 --> 01:07:41,685
So Mohammed bin Salman
very high on my list.

1549
01:07:42,854 --> 01:07:44,595
Jacob Shapiro: Uh, yeah, Benjamin
Netanyahu's dream, by the way.

1550
01:07:44,595 --> 01:07:47,984
He, he, uh, you're forgetting ice
cream gate where he, uh, got held

1551
01:07:47,984 --> 01:07:51,134
up on corruption issues because his
office was spending over 400, the

1552
01:07:51,134 --> 01:07:54,345
equivalent of $400 a month just on
specialty ice cream for his wife.

1553
01:07:54,345 --> 01:07:56,294
So he dreams of ice
cream and bombing Iran.

1554
01:07:56,444 --> 01:07:56,714
There you go.

1555
01:07:57,165 --> 01:07:57,734
Marko Papic: That's awesome.

1556
01:07:58,520 --> 01:07:59,055
Well, well done.

1557
01:07:59,384 --> 01:08:02,265
And then number six, uh, you know,
it's interesting that I took this

1558
01:08:02,265 --> 01:08:03,975
leader over Mohammed bin Salman.

1559
01:08:04,575 --> 01:08:05,535
You could say that.

1560
01:08:05,535 --> 01:08:06,165
Uh.

1561
01:08:07,410 --> 01:08:11,970
The degree of difficulty in the delta in
Saudi Arabia is greater, but I'm picking

1562
01:08:11,970 --> 01:08:17,370
King Mohamed, the sixth of Morocco,
plus his Prime Minister, Aziz Hanush.

1563
01:08:18,210 --> 01:08:22,020
Uh, the socioeconomic transformation
of Morocco is al also incredible.

1564
01:08:22,050 --> 01:08:25,859
Uh, avoided the Arab Spring, but
it's really the integration into the

1565
01:08:25,859 --> 01:08:28,380
supply chains that is very important.

1566
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:33,090
And there is, I think, some symmetry
of having Morocco six in Spain, 10

1567
01:08:33,090 --> 01:08:37,950
because they're increasingly becoming
really, uh, Europe's manufacturing hub.

1568
01:08:37,950 --> 01:08:40,109
The integration between the
two is quite interesting.

1569
01:08:40,109 --> 01:08:40,200
Mm-hmm.

1570
01:08:40,979 --> 01:08:45,689
Um, also, also this is a country that's
effectively doubled its territory.

1571
01:08:47,580 --> 01:08:51,210
You know, if you wanna compare King
Muhammad the six to Vladimir Putin,

1572
01:08:51,300 --> 01:08:55,529
Vladimir Putin's got nothing on
annexation because Morocco has effectively

1573
01:08:55,529 --> 01:08:59,880
quietly annexed Western Sahara and
absolutely nobody has said anything.

1574
01:08:59,880 --> 01:09:02,640
Now that's been the case for a very
long time, but it's pretty much

1575
01:09:02,640 --> 01:09:04,590
now over and it's failed complete.

1576
01:09:05,130 --> 01:09:09,990
Uh, also great place to visit and,
uh, has really navigated a lot of

1577
01:09:09,990 --> 01:09:11,849
the problems over the last 25 years.

1578
01:09:11,849 --> 01:09:16,380
I think Morocco is where the rest of the
GCC is headed, and that's why you should

1579
01:09:16,380 --> 01:09:17,819
be very bullish on the Middle East.

1580
01:09:17,880 --> 01:09:22,680
So I'm gonna stop here and then, uh,
yeah, any reactions, any thoughts?

1581
01:09:23,460 --> 01:09:24,899
Jacob Shapiro: Uh, we're
closer than you think.

1582
01:09:24,930 --> 01:09:26,160
Uh, this is why we're cousins.

1583
01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:26,819
Uh, on my list.

1584
01:09:26,819 --> 01:09:29,819
I like you, uh, the four leaders so far
that you have, that I should have had.

1585
01:09:29,819 --> 01:09:33,720
Anwar Ibrahim, Abdu ii, IDI
Rama, and the Sultan of, uh.

1586
01:09:34,275 --> 01:09:35,985
Oman, uh, whatever his name is.

1587
01:09:35,985 --> 01:09:37,575
I don't know his name,
sorry, Saltan of Oman.

1588
01:09:37,575 --> 01:09:38,925
I just remember Salton caboose.

1589
01:09:38,950 --> 01:09:41,685
I, I remember joking about him
over back in our Strat four days.

1590
01:09:41,685 --> 01:09:43,395
But I think all those
are worthy of inclusion.

1591
01:09:43,665 --> 01:09:45,885
I'll give you my seven through one
and you'll see that I actually have

1592
01:09:45,885 --> 01:09:49,935
taken both MBS and MBZ ahead of you,
uh, coming in at three and four.

1593
01:09:49,935 --> 01:09:50,295
Marko Papic: Whoa.

1594
01:09:50,895 --> 01:09:51,405
Wow.

1595
01:09:51,405 --> 01:09:51,795
Yeah, I knows.

1596
01:09:51,795 --> 01:09:52,110
Oh, I'm shocked.

1597
01:09:52,110 --> 01:09:52,910
Surpris, isn't

1598
01:09:52,915 --> 01:09:52,965
Jacob Shapiro: it?

1599
01:09:53,415 --> 01:09:53,895
I'm shocked.

1600
01:09:53,895 --> 01:09:53,897
You're shocked.

1601
01:09:53,925 --> 01:09:57,225
I know I talk a lot of shit about the
golf here on this podcast, but here I am

1602
01:09:57,225 --> 01:09:59,055
with, uh, with those two at the very top.

1603
01:09:59,265 --> 01:10:00,825
So rounding out my top seven here.

1604
01:10:01,215 --> 01:10:04,545
Um, and then, well, no, I, I
have like 10, 10 or 12 minutes

1605
01:10:04,545 --> 01:10:05,535
maybe we get through the top.

1606
01:10:05,535 --> 01:10:08,025
And do we come back and discuss this
more after we've had time to study?

1607
01:10:08,025 --> 01:10:08,355
We, I don't know.

1608
01:10:08,355 --> 01:10:08,865
You'll tell me.

1609
01:10:08,895 --> 01:10:09,345
Okay.

1610
01:10:09,345 --> 01:10:09,465
We do.

1611
01:10:09,585 --> 01:10:11,655
So number seven, this
might be your number one.

1612
01:10:11,745 --> 01:10:14,355
Uh, but this is Georgia
Maloney's territory for me.

1613
01:10:14,415 --> 01:10:15,615
She comes in at number seven.

1614
01:10:15,615 --> 01:10:16,935
I'm sure you're gonna
wanna talk about her.

1615
01:10:17,025 --> 01:10:18,825
She's, I think she's been
very, very effective.

1616
01:10:19,275 --> 01:10:21,465
Uh, number six, Xi Jinping.

1617
01:10:21,915 --> 01:10:24,015
I'm impressed, Xi I've
always liked Xi Jinping.

1618
01:10:24,015 --> 01:10:25,575
I've always overindexed on his leadership.

1619
01:10:25,575 --> 01:10:28,935
I think he's done an incredible job
with a very, very difficult situation.

1620
01:10:29,445 --> 01:10:31,365
You wanna talk about
degrees of difficulty?

1621
01:10:31,845 --> 01:10:34,335
I mean, he's the Mao Deng
Xiaoping of this era.

1622
01:10:34,335 --> 01:10:36,255
He's trying to absolutely transform China.

1623
01:10:36,255 --> 01:10:37,425
He's gotten a long way there.

1624
01:10:37,425 --> 01:10:38,805
He's reforming the PLA.

1625
01:10:38,835 --> 01:10:40,365
He's moving supply side reforms.

1626
01:10:40,365 --> 01:10:43,395
Like nobody has a higher degree of
difficulty on this list than Xi Jinping.

1627
01:10:43,395 --> 01:10:46,185
And the fact that he's still alive
and still kicking and there's no

1628
01:10:46,185 --> 01:10:48,105
opposition and there's no opposition.

1629
01:10:48,105 --> 01:10:51,825
Don't listen to the annual spate of
rumors that Xi Jinping is on the way

1630
01:10:51,825 --> 01:10:53,235
out, which is happening this week.

1631
01:10:53,295 --> 01:10:56,475
I guess we needed something in the
slow news cycle after Israel, Iran War.

1632
01:10:56,745 --> 01:10:58,005
Xi Jinping comes here.

1633
01:10:58,545 --> 01:10:59,115
Um.

1634
01:10:59,625 --> 01:11:00,285
Number five.

1635
01:11:00,285 --> 01:11:01,755
This one I bet is not
an, well, I don't know.

1636
01:11:01,785 --> 01:11:02,745
Maybe she's on your list.

1637
01:11:02,745 --> 01:11:03,495
Maybe she's not.

1638
01:11:03,855 --> 01:11:07,245
Uh, Claudia Shane Baum in Mexico, I
think has been incredibly impressive.

1639
01:11:07,275 --> 01:11:10,755
I've described her as sort of
the Anglo Merkel of the 2020s.

1640
01:11:10,755 --> 01:11:12,105
She reminds me of Anglo Merkel.

1641
01:11:12,105 --> 01:11:14,355
She's a scientist engineer.

1642
01:11:14,355 --> 01:11:18,225
Yes, she's taking over from Alos populism,
but she's dealt with Trump masterfully.

1643
01:11:18,285 --> 01:11:20,295
I think she's doing a great
job with Mexican politics, her

1644
01:11:20,295 --> 01:11:22,995
approval ratings through the roof,
like she's putting in good work.

1645
01:11:23,565 --> 01:11:24,435
Um, three and four.

1646
01:11:24,435 --> 01:11:27,585
I told you I've got MBZ at
number four MBS at number three.

1647
01:11:28,245 --> 01:11:28,934
And my top two.

1648
01:11:28,934 --> 01:11:32,535
Number two, I, I wonder if he'll push
back against this, and this is probably

1649
01:11:32,535 --> 01:11:37,724
my bias creeping in, but give me Mr.
Zelensky in Ukraine at number two,

1650
01:11:37,785 --> 01:11:39,285
what he's been able to do for Ukraine.

1651
01:11:39,285 --> 01:11:40,875
He's gone through some ups and downs.

1652
01:11:41,205 --> 01:11:43,304
He's still kicking, Ukraine is still here.

1653
01:11:43,335 --> 01:11:45,735
Ukraine is in an incredible
position because of him.

1654
01:11:46,005 --> 01:11:49,755
I think that Ukraine is not
here today in its current form.

1655
01:11:49,755 --> 01:11:53,474
If he's not out in the streets with the
cameras, like manipulating the media

1656
01:11:53,474 --> 01:11:56,684
the way that he did, like, I think
he really was an indispensable man

1657
01:11:56,684 --> 01:12:00,165
at a, at a really critical time for a
country that was at existential risk.

1658
01:12:00,165 --> 01:12:01,605
And I give him extra props for that.

1659
01:12:01,995 --> 01:12:03,255
Maybe he's a church alien figure.

1660
01:12:03,255 --> 01:12:05,955
Maybe as soon as the war's over,
he gets put back out to pasture or.

1661
01:12:06,170 --> 01:12:07,940
Face back onto TV as a comedian.

1662
01:12:08,240 --> 01:12:09,410
I like that he is a comedian.

1663
01:12:09,440 --> 01:12:10,250
Like that works for me.

1664
01:12:10,880 --> 01:12:11,840
Um, agreed.

1665
01:12:11,840 --> 01:12:14,240
Also, you know, a fellow,
you know, according to Putin,

1666
01:12:14,240 --> 01:12:15,620
a Jewish fascist, so fine.

1667
01:12:15,620 --> 01:12:17,809
Like, let the Jew pick a
Jewish fascist at number two.

1668
01:12:17,809 --> 01:12:20,599
And I've already told you that
ye boule is my number one.

1669
01:12:20,870 --> 01:12:21,620
You can't resist it.

1670
01:12:21,620 --> 01:12:22,790
I don't wanna live under him.

1671
01:12:22,790 --> 01:12:23,960
He's incredibly a liberal.

1672
01:12:24,170 --> 01:12:27,650
I bet that 30 years from now, you
know, he'll, he's like, uh, the

1673
01:12:27,650 --> 01:12:31,250
metaphor might be de nearest Arian,
like good intentions, did a whole

1674
01:12:31,250 --> 01:12:35,120
bunch of things, but eventually lived
long enough to be queen of the ashes.

1675
01:12:35,120 --> 01:12:37,429
Like he, he has that darkness to him.

1676
01:12:37,429 --> 01:12:41,269
He's got the dragon inside of him, but
right now he's riding high and nobody

1677
01:12:41,269 --> 01:12:42,830
has done more with, less than bouquet.

1678
01:12:43,175 --> 01:12:45,080
Um, right down to the Bitcoin bet.

1679
01:12:45,080 --> 01:12:45,860
So there's my list.

1680
01:12:46,639 --> 01:12:48,349
Marko Papic: Well, I mean,
there's a lot of agreement here.

1681
01:12:48,349 --> 01:12:54,830
We've got El Salvador, we've got
UAE, Saudi Arabia, um, Italy, Mexico.

1682
01:12:54,830 --> 01:12:59,360
I'm, I'm about to reveal my top five, um,
one disagreement I have here with you.

1683
01:12:59,420 --> 01:13:04,099
Uh, so Ukraine, I have, uh,
actually both Zelensky and Trump

1684
01:13:04,099 --> 01:13:05,660
in a special category of their own.

1685
01:13:07,305 --> 01:13:07,725
Jacob Shapiro: As, as you can tell.

1686
01:13:07,725 --> 01:13:09,135
By the way, Mr. Trump not on my list.

1687
01:13:09,135 --> 01:13:10,545
I was curious if he
would get on your list.

1688
01:13:10,695 --> 01:13:11,925
Marko Papic: Uh, he's
not on my list either.

1689
01:13:12,285 --> 01:13:15,735
Um, you know, I, I think that
President Trump has done a lot of very

1690
01:13:15,735 --> 01:13:19,995
oppressive things, but is he a product
of being the leader of the best?

1691
01:13:20,025 --> 01:13:22,545
Like, could he have done
what he did with El Salvador?

1692
01:13:23,985 --> 01:13:27,135
You know, that's the question
that I think I, I struggle with.

1693
01:13:27,135 --> 01:13:31,755
And similarly, uh, Zelensky was an
absolutely terrible leader before the war.

1694
01:13:32,745 --> 01:13:33,525
Mm-hmm.

1695
01:13:33,531 --> 01:13:34,545
Absolutely terrible.

1696
01:13:34,545 --> 01:13:38,805
So, you know, like, and even during
the war, I would say that the first 12

1697
01:13:38,805 --> 01:13:43,755
months of Zelensky leadership in the
war from February, 2022 to, let's say

1698
01:13:43,755 --> 01:13:47,360
September, 2023, admirable, amazing.

1699
01:13:47,860 --> 01:13:54,495
Uh, I think he's made several incredibly
terrifyingly terrible military

1700
01:13:54,495 --> 01:13:58,875
strategic decisions, you know, for
the past, like two years straight.

1701
01:13:59,969 --> 01:14:03,660
And so like, you are basically
giving him the number two spot

1702
01:14:03,660 --> 01:14:05,849
for like 18 months of his rule.

1703
01:14:06,509 --> 01:14:09,389
I am, and it is, and listen, incredible.

1704
01:14:09,389 --> 01:14:13,469
18 months of his rule, but like that's,
you know, that's like, I, I don't know

1705
01:14:13,469 --> 01:14:15,000
what to do with him because of that.

1706
01:14:15,030 --> 01:14:16,320
Um, it's, it's

1707
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:18,299
Jacob Shapiro: kinda, it's kinda like,
it's, it's kinda like Brandon Roy, like

1708
01:14:18,299 --> 01:14:21,330
when he was on the floor, he was one of
the best, but he doesn't have any knees.

1709
01:14:21,330 --> 01:14:23,910
He has no cartilage in his knees,
so he can't play basketball.

1710
01:14:23,940 --> 01:14:26,160
Marko Papic: You know, a better,
a better example would be somebody

1711
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:30,929
who catches fire in the playoffs and
then gets a huge contract afterwards.

1712
01:14:30,929 --> 01:14:33,809
You know, you're like, oh my God, look
at what they did in these two series.

1713
01:14:33,809 --> 01:14:33,960
Yeah.

1714
01:14:33,960 --> 01:14:35,700
But maybe that's because
they weren't guarding him.

1715
01:14:36,299 --> 01:14:38,580
Uh, I just, that's why
he's not on my list.

1716
01:14:38,580 --> 01:14:43,559
But I, you know, respect that 18
months of dogged perseverance.

1717
01:14:44,219 --> 01:14:47,910
Um, China, big disagreement
with you there.

1718
01:14:48,570 --> 01:14:49,349
Jacob Shapiro: Not on your list.

1719
01:14:49,500 --> 01:14:50,040
No,

1720
01:14:50,370 --> 01:14:50,580
Marko Papic: no.

1721
01:14:50,580 --> 01:14:51,660
Xi bing is not on my list.

1722
01:14:51,660 --> 01:14:51,809
That's a

1723
01:14:51,809 --> 01:14:52,860
Jacob Shapiro: huge disagreement.

1724
01:14:53,009 --> 01:14:53,370
Wow.

1725
01:14:53,400 --> 01:14:53,549
Well,

1726
01:14:53,610 --> 01:14:54,360
Marko Papic: and here's why.

1727
01:14:54,540 --> 01:14:57,299
You know, I loved what you said
about Uzbekistan's president.

1728
01:14:57,299 --> 01:14:58,349
Remind me of the name again.

1729
01:14:59,055 --> 01:15:00,390
Jacob Shapiro: Shav Kat, me Zev.

1730
01:15:00,390 --> 01:15:03,180
I only had to practice that about
30 times before we hit record.

1731
01:15:03,210 --> 01:15:05,670
Marko Papic: And I apologize
for not remembering the name.

1732
01:15:05,670 --> 01:15:09,870
I did honestly take a look at
Uzbekistan as one of my potentials.

1733
01:15:09,960 --> 01:15:12,450
Didn't choose it, but what
you said was interesting.

1734
01:15:12,450 --> 01:15:18,300
You talked to some random Uzbekistani
taxi driver and they loved him.

1735
01:15:18,630 --> 01:15:21,480
You know, and, and I bet you if
you poll people into Uzbekistan,

1736
01:15:21,480 --> 01:15:22,740
legitimately they would agree.

1737
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:24,660
I don't think that's the case with China.

1738
01:15:24,720 --> 01:15:25,530
And here's why.

1739
01:15:26,370 --> 01:15:27,990
He didn't take people outta poverty.

1740
01:15:28,380 --> 01:15:30,120
Preceding leaders did.

1741
01:15:30,150 --> 01:15:32,070
By 2012, China was what it is today.

1742
01:15:34,680 --> 01:15:39,750
He unnecessarily, unnecessarily
provoked the sleeping giant, which

1743
01:15:39,750 --> 01:15:40,605
is the United States of America.

1744
01:15:40,635 --> 01:15:42,420
That was not necessary in 2020.

1745
01:15:42,510 --> 01:15:46,680
In 2012, you could have waited
until 20 20, 20 25, 20 30.

1746
01:15:47,219 --> 01:15:51,540
When you have far more ability
to kind of challenge the us, I

1747
01:15:51,540 --> 01:15:52,860
think that was a huge on goal.

1748
01:15:52,860 --> 01:15:56,639
Jacob, there was no need for China
to start talking about nine dash

1749
01:15:56,639 --> 01:15:58,620
lines or South China Sea in 2012.

1750
01:15:58,620 --> 01:15:59,280
It just, why?

1751
01:15:59,820 --> 01:16:03,840
Why wake up the United States of America
itching to pivot out of the Middle East?

1752
01:16:04,290 --> 01:16:09,360
Why alert them to the fact that yes,
you have designs on regional hegemony

1753
01:16:09,360 --> 01:16:15,179
and then finally, I cannot believe you
have him this high because of how he has

1754
01:16:15,179 --> 01:16:18,179
crushed private sector dynamism in China.

1755
01:16:18,389 --> 01:16:22,290
And I don't wanna sound like some aire,
you know, like pro business guy, you

1756
01:16:22,290 --> 01:16:24,059
know, like who just cares about that?

1757
01:16:24,269 --> 01:16:27,059
But that's a huge, that's
something that China genuinely was

1758
01:16:27,059 --> 01:16:28,469
crushing and was getting there.

1759
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:30,840
And some of his structural reforms.

1760
01:16:30,840 --> 01:16:34,769
I mean, certainly he has put the weight
of the government behind certain sectors.

1761
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:35,370
God bless you.

1762
01:16:35,370 --> 01:16:36,599
But anybody can do that.

1763
01:16:37,470 --> 01:16:41,250
My concern is that there's been a little
bit too much opposition to private

1764
01:16:41,250 --> 01:16:43,020
sector entrepreneurship and innovation.

1765
01:16:43,530 --> 01:16:46,260
Jacob Shapiro: Um, yeah, the, the,
I'll, I'll push back in this way.

1766
01:16:46,260 --> 01:16:49,620
I think the, the thing that we
really disagree on is that I think

1767
01:16:49,620 --> 01:16:52,800
that he is popular to the average
rank and file Chinese person.

1768
01:16:52,800 --> 01:16:54,840
And I think that, not because
he made them prosperous, but

1769
01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:56,130
because he went after corruption.

1770
01:16:56,520 --> 01:16:59,640
I think there was a huge divide where
parts of China got incredibly rich.

1771
01:16:59,640 --> 01:16:59,775
We agree.

1772
01:16:59,790 --> 01:17:02,760
And he came, he came in and
said, bogie la the party's over.

1773
01:17:02,820 --> 01:17:05,430
And you guys in Shanghai driving
around the Lamborghinis, while

1774
01:17:05,460 --> 01:17:08,820
people are making less than $5 a day
in the interior, the party's over.

1775
01:17:08,820 --> 01:17:12,030
Like we are go and military guys who
you're siphoning off all this money.

1776
01:17:12,030 --> 01:17:14,251
Local governments who are doing all
these things to siphon off money

1777
01:17:14,520 --> 01:17:16,290
for that's over, the party is over.

1778
01:17:16,290 --> 01:17:20,250
We're going back to Moral Rectitude
and Xi Jing principles and Little

1779
01:17:20,250 --> 01:17:21,390
Red Books and everything else.

1780
01:17:21,390 --> 01:17:23,040
Like, and I think that he's
gotten popular for that.

1781
01:17:23,040 --> 01:17:24,420
The others, I agree with you.

1782
01:17:24,420 --> 01:17:26,670
I mean, I would quibble with, I
don't think his problem was 2012.

1783
01:17:26,670 --> 01:17:29,520
His problem was the wolf
warrior diplomacy with 2017.

1784
01:17:29,520 --> 01:17:31,155
And to his credit, I. Has fixed it.

1785
01:17:31,214 --> 01:17:33,405
He got rid of the Wolf Warrior
warriors, he's like taken it back.

1786
01:17:33,405 --> 01:17:35,445
Now, that was a mistake, but
like he showed the ability to

1787
01:17:35,445 --> 01:17:37,455
survive the mistake and twist it.

1788
01:17:37,785 --> 01:17:41,775
Private sector Diamond Dyna is sure,
like, but I think he's done as good

1789
01:17:41,775 --> 01:17:44,535
a job as he possibly can in China,
and I think he is the one that said,

1790
01:17:44,535 --> 01:17:46,394
Hey, get ready for L-shaped growth.

1791
01:17:46,634 --> 01:17:50,115
We are gonna have to go through this
at some point we're we're gonna let

1792
01:17:50,115 --> 01:17:51,495
the real estate bubble collapse.

1793
01:17:51,554 --> 01:17:53,210
I know, but even there, he's
gonna have to manage it.

1794
01:17:53,264 --> 01:17:53,894
Like, you know,

1795
01:17:54,285 --> 01:17:56,775
Marko Papic: but even there, Jacob,
like we, he's making the same

1796
01:17:56,775 --> 01:18:01,304
mistake that Angela Merkel, Obama
Tea Party, everyone in the West made.

1797
01:18:01,785 --> 01:18:05,745
So I don't wanna like, like be too
negative on this, but there is a

1798
01:18:05,745 --> 01:18:07,995
solution to a real estate crisis.

1799
01:18:08,205 --> 01:18:13,455
Richard Coup has told us what that
is and it's stimulating GDP growth.

1800
01:18:13,455 --> 01:18:17,684
Now I, again, he's falling into
the same mistake everyone else did.

1801
01:18:18,030 --> 01:18:22,710
But all he needs to do is look at the
west and how long the de-leveraging

1802
01:18:22,710 --> 01:18:26,940
was prolonged because the US government
and the European governments did not

1803
01:18:26,940 --> 01:18:30,599
step in with fiscal support to know
that he is making the same mistake.

1804
01:18:30,599 --> 01:18:37,019
So on that front, I think the fact that he
has been so astir is in an incorrect move.

1805
01:18:37,019 --> 01:18:37,380
But

1806
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:40,440
Jacob Shapiro: yeah, but I, I
think that's 'cause it's the right

1807
01:18:40,440 --> 01:18:41,550
move for the Chinese context.

1808
01:18:41,550 --> 01:18:44,070
He warned them in 2019, do not do this.

1809
01:18:44,070 --> 01:18:44,880
This is a red line.

1810
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:46,380
I am not going to bail you out.

1811
01:18:46,380 --> 01:18:47,130
And then they did it.

1812
01:18:47,130 --> 01:18:49,470
And so he had to follow through
and say, look, we are just not

1813
01:18:49,470 --> 01:18:50,490
gonna backstop you forever.

1814
01:18:50,490 --> 01:18:51,870
We need to be more productive.

1815
01:18:51,929 --> 01:18:53,785
Like we need to be more
efficient with our capital.

1816
01:18:53,785 --> 01:18:54,300
He's not gonna

1817
01:18:54,750 --> 01:18:57,269
Marko Papic: Right, but he's not
going to be more productive if he's

1818
01:18:57,269 --> 01:19:00,570
messing with also the private markets
and private businesses and private

1819
01:19:00,570 --> 01:19:01,050
Jacob Shapiro: entrepreneurs.

1820
01:19:01,470 --> 01:19:02,519
That's, that's, that's true.

1821
01:19:02,525 --> 01:19:04,920
I have, so it's, I have nothing
to, I can't argue with you

1822
01:19:04,920 --> 01:19:06,780
Marko Papic: there, but it's,
it's, look, it's not a big deal.

1823
01:19:06,809 --> 01:19:10,889
Uh, he is on my list of like the people
I left out along with, uh, some others

1824
01:19:10,889 --> 01:19:12,269
that we can talk about next time.

1825
01:19:12,840 --> 01:19:14,430
I'm gonna finish off my list.

1826
01:19:14,550 --> 01:19:16,890
Uh, this has gone on long enough.

1827
01:19:17,700 --> 01:19:20,309
The next one, first of all,
if you have any reactions to

1828
01:19:20,309 --> 01:19:22,200
our list, send them to us.

1829
01:19:22,350 --> 01:19:22,440
Yes.

1830
01:19:22,620 --> 01:19:27,210
Um, you can use, uh, maritz
geopolitical alpha.com or Jacob.

1831
01:19:27,269 --> 01:19:27,840
What's

1832
01:19:28,680 --> 01:19:30,000
Jacob Shapiro: jacob@jacobshapiro.com.

1833
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:31,320
I'll put them both in the intro, but yes.

1834
01:19:31,800 --> 01:19:32,010
Marko Papic: Okay.

1835
01:19:32,010 --> 01:19:34,050
So let's, uh, let's get
some, uh, commentary.

1836
01:19:34,050 --> 01:19:34,860
That's, that's cool.

1837
01:19:34,890 --> 01:19:37,260
Uh, we're also, what I'm gonna
do with Jacob is I'm gonna use a

1838
01:19:37,260 --> 01:19:41,430
sophisticated mathematical formula
to blend our lists together.

1839
01:19:42,269 --> 01:19:42,750
Jacob Shapiro: Oh, cool.

1840
01:19:43,050 --> 01:19:43,290
Marko Papic: You know?

1841
01:19:43,290 --> 01:19:43,410
Great.

1842
01:19:43,410 --> 01:19:44,640
So we'll know who's number one.

1843
01:19:45,599 --> 01:19:45,900
Jacob Shapiro: Great.

1844
01:19:46,530 --> 01:19:48,269
Marko Papic: Alright, I'm
gonna round off the top.

1845
01:19:48,330 --> 01:19:54,959
Um, I think you're gonna love my top first
of all, number five, Kasim Jomar to baby.

1846
01:19:55,709 --> 01:19:56,129
Yeah.

1847
01:19:56,400 --> 01:19:56,700
Yeah.

1848
01:19:56,700 --> 01:19:58,019
I didn't choose Uzbekistan.

1849
01:19:58,019 --> 01:19:59,190
I didn't choose Uzbekistan.

1850
01:19:59,190 --> 01:19:59,730
Why?

1851
01:19:59,820 --> 01:20:03,000
Uh, first of all, navigating
geopolitics very successfully.

1852
01:20:03,240 --> 01:20:08,429
The reason Uzbekistan can ride, uh,
quietly and not pick sides is because

1853
01:20:08,429 --> 01:20:10,230
nobody truly cares about Uzbekistan.

1854
01:20:11,730 --> 01:20:12,870
Like, let's be very clear.

1855
01:20:12,870 --> 01:20:14,669
Neither do including Russians.

1856
01:20:14,700 --> 01:20:15,509
They're like, ah, whatever.

1857
01:20:15,509 --> 01:20:16,080
Like, sure.

1858
01:20:16,080 --> 01:20:16,440
Yeah.

1859
01:20:16,889 --> 01:20:19,769
You know, sorry for destroying your
environment with cotton production.

1860
01:20:19,769 --> 01:20:20,160
Moving on.

1861
01:20:21,675 --> 01:20:22,575
Kazakhstan.

1862
01:20:22,635 --> 01:20:25,425
The Russians care about
Kazakhstan, they care about

1863
01:20:25,425 --> 01:20:27,525
Kazakhstan, and so do the Chinese.

1864
01:20:27,525 --> 01:20:31,095
And yet what the Q has managed
to do is perhaps the greatest

1865
01:20:31,095 --> 01:20:32,985
balancing act in all of the world.

1866
01:20:33,045 --> 01:20:34,605
Yes, I'm gonna go it that far.

1867
01:20:35,385 --> 01:20:38,625
He managed to call in Russian
peacekeepers when there was, uh,

1868
01:20:38,655 --> 01:20:39,856
to call an uprising against him.

1869
01:20:39,861 --> 01:20:40,160
Mm-hmm.

1870
01:20:40,455 --> 01:20:45,285
But since then, since then, he has
managed to avoid picking sides in

1871
01:20:45,285 --> 01:20:47,055
Ukraine, Russia, which is extraordinary.

1872
01:20:47,385 --> 01:20:53,085
He has left the ruling party completely
pivoted away from Nazarbayev, positioned

1873
01:20:53,085 --> 01:20:55,305
himself as a political economic reformer.

1874
01:20:55,995 --> 01:21:02,175
Uh, he's, uh, refused to recognize Russian
puppet states in Ukraine, refused to

1875
01:21:02,175 --> 01:21:08,085
accept the, uh, uh, all sorts of domestic
political problems in Russia that have

1876
01:21:08,085 --> 01:21:11,475
sort of moved over to, uh, to Kazakhstan.

1877
01:21:11,475 --> 01:21:16,335
And, uh, just managed to get
rid of domestic political.

1878
01:21:16,920 --> 01:21:20,910
Problems that have been left over
from thus survive, have managed to

1879
01:21:20,910 --> 01:21:22,590
balance both China and Russia as well.

1880
01:21:22,590 --> 01:21:25,500
So really impressive work there
in Kazakhstan that nobody's

1881
01:21:25,500 --> 01:21:26,910
probably paying attention to.

1882
01:21:27,120 --> 01:21:32,010
I would definitely trade a leader
of many countries for to kaev.

1883
01:21:32,370 --> 01:21:33,120
Number four.

1884
01:21:33,210 --> 01:21:35,400
Hasn't made your list,
which is surprising.

1885
01:21:35,400 --> 01:21:38,040
This is the best economic
performance in Europe.

1886
01:21:38,160 --> 01:21:39,060
I said Spain.

1887
01:21:39,210 --> 01:21:41,130
There is another country
that's doing even better.

1888
01:21:41,280 --> 01:21:44,910
The largest budget deficit
consolidation in human history.

1889
01:21:45,090 --> 01:21:52,350
We're talking about KO's, midis of Greece,
also geopolitically, you know, quiet.

1890
01:21:52,440 --> 01:21:54,000
Hasn't really pushed against Turkey.

1891
01:21:54,030 --> 01:21:58,380
Quietly become the destination for
Israeli entrepreneurs and capital

1892
01:21:58,710 --> 01:22:00,810
has moved into Greece a lot.

1893
01:22:00,870 --> 01:22:05,490
And, um, really interesting,
interesting, uh, performance.

1894
01:22:05,490 --> 01:22:06,840
I think that, um.

1895
01:22:07,650 --> 01:22:11,550
Absolutely would, uh, trade,
uh, many leaders for mitsotakis.

1896
01:22:12,000 --> 01:22:17,490
Um, also third term, uh, which you know,
is very impressive in a place like Greece.

1897
01:22:17,640 --> 01:22:19,349
I have, uh, Modi third.

1898
01:22:20,070 --> 01:22:20,700
I regret it.

1899
01:22:21,630 --> 01:22:22,559
I regret it though.

1900
01:22:22,620 --> 01:22:23,700
I think you are you.

1901
01:22:23,730 --> 01:22:24,059
No, no.

1902
01:22:24,059 --> 01:22:27,930
I mean, just, you made such a
compelling case, uh, for why, you

1903
01:22:27,930 --> 01:22:29,340
know, he shouldn't be number three.

1904
01:22:29,340 --> 01:22:31,320
He is for you, number 15.

1905
01:22:32,010 --> 01:22:33,960
I think that's, that's correct.

1906
01:22:34,260 --> 01:22:35,790
You know, I, I overstated him.

1907
01:22:35,790 --> 01:22:40,200
And then finally we get to our
top two choices who will be ranked

1908
01:22:40,200 --> 01:22:42,030
number one and two on our lists.

1909
01:22:42,390 --> 01:22:48,420
So I nailed it mainly because
you also agree yours, uh, six and

1910
01:22:48,690 --> 01:22:50,820
four, and it's very interesting.

1911
01:22:50,970 --> 01:22:54,870
The top two leaders in the world for
Jacob Shapiro and Marco Papich are women.

1912
01:22:57,105 --> 01:23:00,705
Number two, Claudia Shine
Bone absolutely crush you.

1913
01:23:00,705 --> 01:23:01,065
I'm so happy

1914
01:23:01,065 --> 01:23:01,995
Jacob Shapiro: she's number two for you.

1915
01:23:01,995 --> 01:23:03,195
I'm so impressed with her.

1916
01:23:03,434 --> 01:23:04,394
Marko Papic: Yeah, absolutely.

1917
01:23:04,394 --> 01:23:08,565
And number one, the greatest
leader in the world.

1918
01:23:08,684 --> 01:23:09,795
And she will be confirmed.

1919
01:23:09,970 --> 01:23:10,335
No, no, no.

1920
01:23:10,335 --> 01:23:10,755
I'm sorry.

1921
01:23:10,755 --> 01:23:13,965
But if she will be confirmed once
I do the math, it will work out.

1922
01:23:13,965 --> 01:23:15,465
'cause she is number six for you.

1923
01:23:15,465 --> 01:23:16,635
She's number one for me.

1924
01:23:16,934 --> 01:23:18,675
Maybe Shaba actually goes higher.

1925
01:23:18,675 --> 01:23:19,575
Four and two.

1926
01:23:20,175 --> 01:23:21,915
Oh, this is gonna be interesting.

1927
01:23:21,915 --> 01:23:22,305
No,

1928
01:23:22,695 --> 01:23:23,205
Jacob Shapiro: yeah, it will be.

1929
01:23:23,205 --> 01:23:23,655
Yeah.

1930
01:23:23,655 --> 01:23:23,656
Yeah.

1931
01:23:23,745 --> 01:23:25,934
Marko Papic: Claudia Sheba
will be crown number one.

1932
01:23:25,995 --> 01:23:27,105
She's number two for me.

1933
01:23:27,105 --> 01:23:29,325
For me number one, and
will be crown number two.

1934
01:23:29,325 --> 01:23:35,325
Overall is I. Just an absolute legend.

1935
01:23:35,595 --> 01:23:42,615
Georgia Maloney crushed it just, I mean,
mic drop in every way, shape or form from

1936
01:23:42,615 --> 01:23:48,555
her facial expressions when she's dealing
with chauvinistic, overburdening annoying

1937
01:23:48,555 --> 01:23:53,115
men down to the economic performance of
Italy, down to way that she has completely

1938
01:23:53,115 --> 01:23:54,885
dampened populism in the country.

1939
01:23:54,975 --> 01:23:57,915
She's given the anti-establishment
populous what they wanted, which

1940
01:23:57,915 --> 01:24:01,095
is anti-immigration policies,
and then she has pursued a

1941
01:24:01,095 --> 01:24:03,015
pretty solid economic agenda.

1942
01:24:03,015 --> 01:24:07,035
Nobody talks about the fact that Italy
still has huge debt burden because

1943
01:24:07,035 --> 01:24:09,045
the deficit has absolutely shrunk.

1944
01:24:09,405 --> 01:24:09,915
Well done.

1945
01:24:09,915 --> 01:24:14,295
George Maloney, you are number one on
the list, but I can just see the data

1946
01:24:14,295 --> 01:24:19,155
right now and it looks like Mexico's
president, Claudia Scheinbaum is crowned

1947
01:24:19,185 --> 01:24:24,075
the best leader in the world with
Maloney second, so that's one in two.

1948
01:24:24,585 --> 01:24:25,125
Um.

1949
01:24:25,724 --> 01:24:31,275
Two leaders, um, two female
leaders in uh, G 20 countries.

1950
01:24:31,275 --> 01:24:32,355
So that's very interesting.

1951
01:24:32,565 --> 01:24:36,885
I will complete the mathematical,
uh, consolidation of our two lists.

1952
01:24:36,885 --> 01:24:40,845
And in the next episode, what we're
gonna do, Jacob, is we're going to,

1953
01:24:40,934 --> 01:24:43,394
uh, basically go from one to about 50.

1954
01:24:44,055 --> 01:24:46,905
I think we got about 50 leaders
here because, you know, you had some

1955
01:24:46,905 --> 01:24:48,255
that I didn't have and vice versa.

1956
01:24:48,705 --> 01:24:48,795
Mm-hmm.

1957
01:24:49,035 --> 01:24:51,765
Uh, and then we're gonna talk about
those that we've left out, why we

1958
01:24:51,765 --> 01:24:53,925
left them out, namely Donald Trump.

1959
01:24:53,925 --> 01:24:55,724
We're gonna get a lot of
hate mail, which is great.

1960
01:24:55,785 --> 01:24:57,530
Let's go, let's go.

1961
01:24:57,530 --> 01:24:59,170
Uh, and then the second
thing also, we also,

1962
01:24:59,415 --> 01:25:03,735
Jacob Shapiro: we, we left out Vladimir
Putin, Kim Jong Un, uh, Gabriel Boruch

1963
01:25:03,735 --> 01:25:05,985
was also on my honorable mention
list, but you'll still get into it.

1964
01:25:06,045 --> 01:25:06,615
Marko Papic: Oh yeah, that's fair.

1965
01:25:06,615 --> 01:25:08,535
We, we, we'll, we'll get into all of that.

1966
01:25:08,595 --> 01:25:14,025
Um, and also, yeah, I mean, we're
gonna, we're gonna ask ourselves

1967
01:25:14,025 --> 01:25:15,795
would we really trade these people?

1968
01:25:15,795 --> 01:25:18,974
But I gotta say Shiba and, uh, Maloney.

1969
01:25:20,144 --> 01:25:20,415
Yeah.

1970
01:25:20,415 --> 01:25:23,985
I mean, I think I would trade the
leaders of our country for those.

1971
01:25:25,710 --> 01:25:27,570
Jacob Shapiro: I, I would be happy
to live under the two of them.

1972
01:25:27,570 --> 01:25:28,260
That's fine with me.

1973
01:25:29,940 --> 01:25:32,940
Marko Papic: Alright, on, on
that note, uh, we're gonna

1974
01:25:33,030 --> 01:25:35,640
end our, uh, top trade list.

1975
01:25:35,700 --> 01:25:40,620
Part one, part two is coming, uh, soon,
hopefully early next week when we can

1976
01:25:40,620 --> 01:25:44,760
kind of digest some of the feedback
and go into, uh, the definitive list.

1977
01:25:44,760 --> 01:25:46,800
That is the mind belt of both of us.

1978
01:25:48,330 --> 01:25:49,500
Jacob Shapiro: This
was incredible, cousin.

1979
01:25:49,500 --> 01:25:50,280
Thank you so much.

1980
01:25:50,520 --> 01:25:51,000
Marko Papic: Thank you.

1981
01:25:51,060 --> 01:25:52,470
No, I appreciate all the hard work.