Bode

It was essentially borrowed time, that was borrowed time, and I needed to act quick. But I didn't know how to act. I didn't know where to go.

Alex

Welcome to stories of men beneath the surface. I'm Alex Melia. Join me as we discover what it means to be a man in the modern era.

In this episode, we're diving into how our parents influence how we raise our own kids, for better or worse. More than a decade ago, Bodhi was really struggling. His relationship with the mother of his daughter had completely broken down. he'd fallen into a depression, lost his home, and his job. He ended up living of all places in his ex mother in law spare room. He was trying to make ends meet on just 20 pounds a week, one Dark Knight had reached his wit's end and climbed under the duvet, it

Bode

was raining. So the heating only came on for about two hours in a day. So it was really cold in the house. And my plan was to essentially overdose because overall of it, I felt that I was nothing and I thought I didn't deserve to be here. I think I hit rock bottom. But something happened, because I drank way too much alcohol. So I just fell asleep. I got this phone call from my dad. I was like, Ah, here we go again. I was half expecting him to start shouting down the phone, or cursing me out or calling me a weakling or a failure or something. I don't know what pushed me to pick up that phone call. But I did that brace myself when I was defensive, and I was ready to just hang up. If he started mouthing off or whatever. Surprisingly, he didn't. He goes, buddy. How you doing? I'm good. That was? Because no, I really need to know how you are doing. I know you are living in the mother in law's house. And that must not be nice. But listen, I want to buy you a ticket to come to Nigeria, even if it's for a week. Just come. And let's sit down. Let's talk. You know, if we need to take you to church to go have some prayers. Let's go get some prayers. Don't just come home and fill some love. I was shocked. I was absolutely shocked. And I cried. And it was just perfect. You know, rain was falling. It was cold. And I can hear the raindrops hit the window on the duvet. Absolutely under the duvet just crying because I just felt some kind of release. But dad's reaction to me crying was silence. He was silent. And that's one of the first times that my dad, I felt my dad actually gave me space to just be and I just found myself saying, Okay, dad. Well, he didn't stop there. Because I know you're saying okay, but I need more than that. I need you right now to give me dates. So I can book the ticket. So you can call immediately if you ever can't fly you out tomorrow. I'll fly out tomorrow. Oh, yeah. I mean, it's like quickly, you know, it's it's Oh, yeah. Look at it now quickly. So I got to the airport. It was doll. The weather was cold. Like I said it was grey. I checked him for the flight. And I was about to board the plane. I got upgraded. I got upgraded to business class. So I got on the plane, sat down, fall on the moment, the flight taxiing to get on the runway took off. And it kind of left the UK. I physically felt weight lifted off my shoulders. I felt like skills fall for my eyes, something spiritual happened. All of a sudden energy come from nowhere. I was breathing better, I was moving better. I just felt like something was stretching. I just felt stretched and alive.

Alex

So what happened when you stepped off the plane in Nigeria,

Bode

so arrived in Nigeria. And again, I was expecting dad's to be his usual self, which is hard because that's what I was used to. For all the years I left Nigeria when I was 18. So from one to 18, I was used to my dad being that harsh, you know, stoic, like, you know, void of emotional type person and went to see some spiritual leaders as well that my dad took because there was going to take me to church, he was in line. It took me to church, had some prayers put down on my head. A lot of people telling me Listen, you're going to go back then you're gonna do shit. Now I sat down and I taught I spoke to my dad and this was one of the most important bits. He said to me, right when you get back to England. I've got a friend who has an apartment that he rents out. I've spoken to him I've told him to rent out one of his flats to you, I'm going to pay for the first six months, he's going to go back to England, we're going to sit down, we're going to dust your CD CV off, we're going to prepare it, you're going to go look for work, you're going to hit the ground running. And that was exactly what happened.

Alex

I really want to talk about this interplay between you and your dad. And I like what you said, you said, he allowed me to just be because I think about when I grew up in Greater Manchester, my parents it was constant having a go at me and feel like they're my either in you, and as we say, in in Wigan, pecking your head, or she's picking my head again, or that's picking my head. And it's, I'm kind of struggling to think of situations where they've allowed me to be there's definitely been a few situations. But what was that like for you, where you're expecting your dad to pick your head, but actually, he's allowing you the space to really try and let that go.

Bode

It felt refreshing for me, it was something that I'd always needed, I'd always wanted. But I couldn't describe it. You know, when you just know deep down inside, or you want something but you can't put you can't find the words to explain what you want. I mean, as a young lad, as a young boy, all I wanted from my dad was affection. All I wanted from him from him was a hug. All I wanted from him was, you know, that rub on my head when I feel down when I feel like I've broken my toy or something. Just tell me you know what these things happen? Sorry about it, blah, blah, blah, instead of shouting at me and telling me, you broke it, you're gonna go buy another one, you're wasting money. Maybe I don't want to hear that at that point. So for me, that was refreshing. And I needed that I needed to just be able to release for me it was a release. It sounds

Alex

like it's acceptance that your your dad gave you. And if we think we talk a lot about on this podcast about what's considered masculine and what's considered feminine, and the masculine is a capitalist body, you've done it again and again. Whereas the feminine is just letting things be and giving you space. And that's probably considered more feminine. So he probably was in touch more of his feminine side to just surrender and just let you do what you needed to do.

Bode

He was he was, and from that day onwards, I've seen this little glimpse of the feminine side from even though I think he kind of gathers himself. You know, when it does, like, No, I'm that man again. But I've seen little bits and pieces. And he continues to grow and develop. In fact, we are growing and developing together, you know, as father and son, we're doing that together, which has allowed us to get into a new space in our relationship. And equally, it was amazing. Like I said, it was just something I've never seen before. And I just wish it was done more.

Alex

So it sounds like that was the catalyst for a renewed strength in your relationship with him. And what has continued to grow since

Bode

that's continued to grow. Of course, the times were just get absolutely. I mean, I'm in therapy. And I've been in therapy for a few years now. And what therapy always does is it just opens up those wounds and brings up those emotions and anger and whatnot. So when I'm able to see something clearly. So there are times where I'm just kind of like pissed off with him for so many things, thinking, Well, why didn't he do this? Why did they do that? But then, because we're not able to have conversations as adults, I'm able to sit him down and say, right, when I was younger, you did this. And it wouldn't didn't feel nice Dad, could you explain to me why you did that, why you thought that was necessary. And he's now able to go back into his past and tell me stories from his past. So together, we come to an understanding that the reason why he did things was because of how he grew up. So he's also processing things as I'm processing things. So we're processing it together. So it's really helping our relationship. I say to people, when I was when I bought my book, when I started writing my book, it took me about a year to write it. When I started writing it, there was still an element of anger towards my dad, you know, but somehow got towards the end of it, and hit a point where there was healing and acceptance, that you know what, that's who he is, that's where he was, you know, I'm able to deal with the traumas and stuff I face whilst growing up because I have those, I have the help and the support around me, he probably didn't have that. So he didn't have anywhere to process it didn't have anything, no one to help him with that. So I've come to understand that you can't expect five gallons of water from a jerrycan or from a Canada colonial hold one litre it's impossible. He gave me what he had. He dealt with me with the tools that he had. And I've come to accept that. I

Alex

think acceptance is is such a an emotionally intelligent thing to process when it comes to our parents because as much as we want to we can't change our parents and I I've tried that for many years and I think you just have to accept your parents for who they are. Absolutely and and i got i also have counselling as well for been doing it for about a year now. And I found through Through counselling that, again, you accept your parents more and more. And also, I'm willing to tell them when I'm upset about something because I don't know about you in the past, I would just bottle it up and not say anything. We're actually right now, I speak I spoke to my mom a few weeks or a few weeks ago, and I said, when I came back home from Portugal, I was in Portugal for a few weeks, and I went back home. And it was all just a bit strange that our interactions and she went down to see my sister in near London, and she said, I'd love to see you for an hour or two and said, Well, I'm not really sure if I want to catch up because it was so strange. So I in the past, I would have just kept to myself not met up with her. But then she said, Oh, don't worry, you know, sorry, if I was like that with you, I'm much different away from home than I am at home. So I met up with them, and it was so much better. So I think voicing your concerns to your parents, I think is really important.

Bode

It's really, really important. And it's it's it creates, it creates a different dynamics to the relationship, you know, because your parents now start to understand that you are a full grown adult, that you have a mind of your own. There's not this is nothing as powerful as that when your parents understand that you have a mind of your own. And that is exactly how I am with my children. My children know that they've got a mind of their own, and they can make their own decisions, right. I'm only here to guide them through that. But I'm not going to force them through anything. I'm a little boy, he just started school. And he goes to the same school as he goes to same school as his eldest sister's eldest sister, dropped them off at 730. In the morning, they all go into a hall and play and whatnot before they go into class. Now he doesn't transfer the idea of being dropped off at 730 in the hall. He wants to go straight into his class. And I think it's he can't get into his classroom to 830. This morning, I took them both. And I tried again, I said, right, can we go into the hall? He said, No, that I'm happy to walk with you to escort my sister to the hall. But we're going to come back and sit in the car and wait until he until it's time for me to go in. Do you understand that? I said, Yes. I said, Okay, fine, you can come down from the car. And when he came down and said it again, I'm not going in. I'm just walking with you. I said, Okay, that's fine. That's okay. And for me, it's important that he's able to express that and do that. Because what I found is like, for example, I don't like to go to church. Now. It's not because I'm not religious, or I don't believe in God. But I don't like to go to church because I was forced to go to church when I was younger. So I decided that the moment I was in control of myself, or my time or my resources, I'm not going to any church. And that's how it's been. Because for me, the idea of going to church is still so traumatic, because I was forced to

Alex

do it. Yeah. And I think when when we have the freedom to do what we want to do, like your son, I was just thinking, what a guy go on my friend, you know, tell dad exactly what you want and don't want.

Bode

Yeah, and he's four. Yeah, he's four, but he's able to express himself in that way is, is it able to set his boundaries. And it's our goal as parents to respect those boundaries. Every way I am with my son, is as a result of my relationship with my dad, or every way my dad was with me. He thinks I'm totally opposite of what my dad was or who my dad was. I'm totally opposite. So I just took that blueprint. Is that right? I didn't like any of that. I'm just going to flip it on its head and do the opposite. And that's what I started. That's what I did. And that's what I do up to this day. Of course, there. There are good sides of it. Don't Don't get me wrong. I'm not going to just know my dad like that. No, they are. They're really good sides, too. Because I know, one thing about my dad is he will go above and beyond for his kids. Right, I've taken that. I will go above and beyond for my kids as well. However, my dad was essentially jump. And I say how high for me, is a case of I think you should jump. What do you think about it? I'm not really sure I want to jump. Okay, why don't you want to jump? Because this that that data? Okay, cool, fine. Fair enough. But let me explain to you that if you jump this, what's going to happen if you don't jump this, what's going to happen? Now the decision is lefty, but just understand that there are consequences for every action, okay? As I've come to understand something, that as a parent, I am here as a guide, I don't own my children. And that's it, you know, I just need to let them feel and understand and explore themselves. I wasn't given a chance to do that. So that's where we differ. And I wish I could do that. When I was younger, there was so many things I didn't want to do. Like, I didn't want to be locked up in a room to learn my timetable. I didn't want now, but I had to do that. I'll give you another example. Over a period of time and my sisters and I've had this discussion time and time again, we've spoken about it because I told them straight. I said there was a point in time I didn't like you guys. And he said, why? Said because when we were younger, I was always forced to look after you right I give my sister's a story I said there was a day I was out playing with my friends. And we were just racing, I think actually wrote this in my book, we were racing myself and my friends were racing, I didn't realise that one of my sisters was running behind us, right. And what happened was, she fell as a result of that and bumped ahead. So she had a cup on her head. I got beaten for that. Why? And the reason was, you should have known your sister was there, you are your sister's keeper. And like, I'm just playing with my friends. I don't know, she's there. I'm being a child. I'm running what children do running, as she's doing what children you know, younger siblings do. By running behind me, it's not my fault that she felt judged. I mean, so for me, again, that's, that's very, very important. And, and I had this conversation with my sister. So for years, I didn't like you guys. Because I always saw myself as the black sheep. And you guys as the perfect one,

Alex

you're the oldest in the family, same as me. And I've got two younger sisters and a brother. And during the 90s, and an artist, I had to look after them whilst my parents went to work. The way my parents set communicated it to me was, you have to look at your sister, because we've literally got no other option. We've not got a babysitter can't afford it or wherever you're gonna have to look after you. You're your sisters. And I was 10 years old when I started looking after my sister, which nowadays, you'd have child protection services, all Avia at that age. So it was never forced. But it was like I have to help my family, my parents because they've got to go to work to to feed us and clothes or whatever. The way I'm picturing your father is this very sort of dominant masculine Nigerian guy, and it's like, this way, or the highway,

Bode

this way or the highway this way or the highway. The funny thing is, this still tries that to this day. I was having a conversation with him yesterday about politics. And we're talking about Nigerian politics. So I know a lot about Nigerian politics. And there's an elections coming up next year. And I said, if I was in Nigeria, if I still lived in Nigeria, and I was able to vote, I would vote for someone else. And my dad says, no, no, no, you need to vote for this guy. And I was like, No, I don't want to vote for him. I don't like his policies. I think he's an old man. And I think the old guys just need to go and let the young innovative people come in and run the country because the old guys actually run the country to the to the ground. And it goes through if you were here, you were going to vote? You know, I would have convinced you. I was like, No, you can't convince me. You can't. You can't miss me.

Alex

Yeah, and you're a fully grown man. Now, maybe your dad sometimes sees you as a 10 year old, 15 year old, whatever. And it's, I want to ask you about your purpose and your direction, because the version of you right now is completely different to the version of you. In 2010. I think you said when you're when you're in your your ex's mom's house, how did you feel as a man at that stage, because I've had periods of time where I've been on the doll. This is I mean, many, many years ago. But it makes you feel less of a man it's very sort of degrade in a new fee feel like you're just wander around the world and this person's got a job, that person's got a job, this person can buy this car, this person can travel this country, and you're this. You're almost seeing life pass you by. That's kind of how I felt or you're watching people live. Whereas you're not doing that. How did you feel in that time?

Bode

I felt less of a man look, here's the thing, I felt that way even more so because so my father was surrounded by what he will classes failures. He was the only man in his family to actually do something with himself. So one of the ways he parent and he admitted this as well, he parented me out of fear, because he didn't want me to end up like his brothers and people that were failures around him. Well, here I was, with no job, no money, no food. No, nothing. 20 pounds a week coming from my mom's friend, living in my ex's mom's house can support my daughter as well. I was essentially everything that he feared at that point. So I felt like I was just I was a disgrace. I felt like I wasn't mad enough. I felt like I did not deserve to be here. I have. I had those thoughts and societal thoughts. At some point, I thought I was going to end it. I thought I was going to end it. I even went as far as buying pills. And I didn't take the pills. And lo and behold was my dad's phone call that woke me up telling me to come to Nigeria. Do you

Alex

think your dad had some sort of six sensitive go, there's something wrong with body I need to reach out to him or

Bode

net, you know, nail on the head. He adjust and that's the reason why he took the soft approach with me. He had just spoken to one of the so called spiritual leaders that he respected the day before. And that spiritual leader I told him that listen, you got so many things wrong with this kid. You need to get on the phone. Call him and be soft with him and you need to do that immediate why? Ah, phone call came. Wow. I'm just remembering all of it now. And I mean, it's just falling into place, you know, because memories sometimes just fade away. But yeah, I'm remembering now the story because I asked him, What made you call me? I never shared with him what I plan to do. But I asked him, What made you call me? And he says, The reason why I called you was because the day before I spoken to someone, the person that told me I've gotten things wrong with you, and I needed to make amends. And I needed to get on the phone immediately.

Alex

So you don't go to church, but the power of God? Yes, yes, absolutely. In whatever form it was came to you,

Bode

you came to me, and I do believe and like I said, I do still believe I'm still I'm a very spiritual person. I still believe in that power. I believe in it. I just don't enjoy the idea of going to church. But I do believe, you know, I still have conversations with the Supreme Being, I still do that. I still have those thoughts when I'm meditating.

Alex

What you and I both have in common? Is this, like a yearning for freedom. I mean, I don't know where that hope high up on the values less freedom is for you. But it's my number one thing, I love to be able to just go to whatever country I want to go to do whatever I want to do. Why do you think that's so important to you and to men as a whole as a real high value?

Bode

Oh, good question. And freedom is right up there for me, as well. And the reason why it's important is society is said, This is how a man should be we're in a box. Right? It's amazing what you start to understand when you start to operate outside of that box, you start to understand that that box was created to benefit someone. Right? Not you, someone

Alex

the establishment,

Bode

the establishment. Exactly. That's boring was created. The moment you understand that, that whoa, hold on a minute. If I don't do all of that, that doesn't make me less of a man. Okay, cool. I'm a stay at home dad. And I'm the person that does the laundry in the house, and the person that does the cooking. But guess what, I do all of that. So that the great stuff that my wife does, can continue to grow, she can go out there and do the amazing things. And more money comes in and we're able to feed the family, we're able to have a roof over our head, and we're able to live good. And at the end of the day, I've got a book of two, it's a win win.

Alex

There is this stigma in society about being a stay at home father, and a lot of men are doing it nowadays. And do you think there's still that stigma still exists? And how do you feel when you tell people you're a stay at home dad?

Bode

Now I feel great. When I say that I'm actually I make a point of saying it now. Because I want men most especially to see I want people to see that. It's okay. There's nothing wrong with it. So I'm actually owning it. And owning that title. Right? In the past, I would have felt a certain way about it. Even when I decided to do it. I hid it. I made up things, or Yeah, I'm doing this, I'm running a few businesses and blah, blah, blah, nah, I'm a stay at home dad. Okay, I'm looking after my kids are spending time with them. I'm catching up on last time, I'm giving them food and putting them to bed. Right so that my wife can go out there and do what she knows how to do best. There's nothing wrong with that. Absolutely nothing more than a world needs that the world needs more mental really start to think that way?

Alex

What was the shift for you to go from this? From the beginning where you're you're keeping it to yourself, you're not sharing it with people? What was the what was the trigger point for you to really own that. And I love that, that sense of ownership, because I've spoken to stay at home dads before and this is sort of, but there's this like English preserveness or whatever, you need to speak to that. Oh, yeah, I'm gonna stay at home dad. But you're like, No, I own this. And I love what I do.

Bode

I made a conscious decision to I'll be honest, that was my wife helped. My manager also helped because she's also a very good friend. And they said, No, you've got to own this. What you do is absolutely amazing. What you do is wonderful. Right? You've got to own it. And I thought to myself, yeah, and actually enjoy doing it too. So why not? So I just started it was just from one person, to another person, to another person. And before I knew it, I say to everyone now, it just I just started to practice it. You know, I'm a creature of habit. And I need to do things over and over and over to truly master it. So just from one person to another to another. And now it's just out there

Alex

like some people might have these feelings of oh, well, he's he's less of a man because he he's a state he's a stay at home dad, what would you say to those kinds of people? And how do you retain your masculinity?

Bode

I would say what's the definition of a man? What is the definition of a man? And if you give me an A definition, I will tell you that so that's a construct, right? What is the definition of a man? What is the definition of a woman? What is right? I'm a man that happens to have children right? member decided to stay home to look after him. Okay. Simple as

Alex

you know, when I have kids in future, I wouldn't want a situation where I'm out of the house all day, I'm constantly going on business trips, and you don't see your kids for a week or two. I mean, that makes me think of why did you have kids in the first place if you can't enjoy them.

Bode

And the funny thing is, I've done that, you know, in my, the job I was doing the job took me up and down the whole country, sometimes I leave the house on Monday, and not get back to a Friday, right? I knew something was missing, I was missing loads of things. I'll give you another story. My middle child. So I've got three kids once 14, one, eight, going on nine once for my eight year old does not let me put her to sleep. The reason is, because you see those formative years. So it's really important years, I wasn't here, I was at work. I was in hotels, you know, flying up driving up and down the whole country for work. So till this day, she does not let me put her to sleep, she would rather put herself to sleep. It's either herself or her mom. They've got a ritual that they do. So that's it. For me, no, it just doesn't work. So I kind of saw that. I thought, no, that's not gonna happen. That's not gonna happen again. So I made sure I kind of went overboard with my son. You know, so he doesn't want anyone else put him to sleep apart from me, how do

Alex

you treat your girls differently to your boy? And, you know, are you are you trying to teach them for example, your boy, you're trying to teach him sports and things that are traditionally associated with masculinity. And on the other side, with with your girls, you know, trying to funnel them into certain activities are ways of looking at things behaviours,

Bode

and don't treat them any different. And the funny thing is my eight year old daughter, she's the one into sports cars. She's the one into football. She loves sports cars, she wants to go on car shows with me the other day, I went to a car show, and she was angry that I didn't wake her up and take her with me. Right? She's well into that she's the one with a Liverpool kit with a Manchester United kit. She's got both I don't know why. You can't do that. But the reason why she bought the Liverpool shirt was support me. That's why she did evil, evil wants to play football, high school doesn't. The girls don't play football in high school. And she's kicking up a fuss about that. And she's actually written a petition to the school to say right now we need to actually create a team for the girls to play for amazing. Well, my little boy on the other hand, he loves to play with dolls. He loves his dogs. He loves to play with his toy vacuum cleaner. He loves to pretend Cook. I'm not gonna stop them from doing what they love. Because he's a boy. And she's a girl. Yeah, I'm gonna do that. Yeah, can I mean, I will let them do what they love,

Alex

which is the opposite, complete opposite to what your dad did.

Bode

Absolutely is the complete opposite. My children see me as the man in the house, they see me do the cooking. They see me do the cleaning. I'm the person with the rags. And the spray bleach gets done that a mom is just sitting down crossing the legs with a with a cup of coffee, watching TV. And if I'm topping up the coffee, there's nothing. For me, I think it's important that my son, my son, as important of my son sees that. Because I want him to go out into the world and not expect that his gender makes him better than anyone else. I don't want him to go out into the world thinking, I'm a man. So a woman must do what I say, that's not going to fly. Right? We have to start making the world a better place. And the only way we can make it a better place is by changing those ways of thinking. It's also important that my girls, my daughters see me do that kind of stuff. So no one can treat them like that.

Alex

What struck me about my conversation with Bodie was the fact that he comes from a traditionally patriarchal family, and is a stay at home dad. Throughout the whole conversation, I was just thinking about the transition that body has made to becoming a stay at home dad, how much of a role model he can be for many other men who are thinking about going down that route as well. I've not seen many stories about men talking about being a stay at home dad. And I think that's to do with the fact that there is a stereotype about this kind of role for men. There's definitely a stigma attached to it. Bodie is a gold driven masculine man. And this goes against the preconceived notion of what stay at home dad is. He's not making excuses for the fact he's a stay at home dad, or saying because of circumstances he asked to stay at home and justifying himself. He's saying that this is his main job, and he definitely owns it. To be the father that board is to his kids today. He can credit his own father for helping him get out of the situation he was in. But his father was there for him when he really needed in the most in his darkest hour. And this goes to show that being a father is a lifelong responsibility and not something that's just up to the age of 18