the key to it all is surrender.

The key to it all is surrender what we're talking about.

surrender, who you used to be, surrender your old identity,

surrender, the way you used to govern, the way you used to do business.

Things like that.

Just surrender to that.

There may be something more, there may be something greater, there is something

greater that God is calling you to

A previous conversation opened the door.

Today we're inviting both voices to the table.

Bonita Williams is the author of the sustainable CEO, equipping leaders

to move from burnout overflow through rest, clarity and stewardship.

AM Williams coaches founders with the leverage leader approach, helping

them create capacity and margin by building systems that scale.

We'll explore how spouses lead together without losing their marriage.

How values become your operating system and the habits that

sustain profit First growth.

This is what it looks like when leadership marriage both thrive.

Benita am

welcome to seek, go create.

Thank you so much for having us.

We are excited to be here.

indeed.

We are recording this on a Saturday morning and, and, and it's, crispy time

of the year fall, which is a great time.

I think it'll be releasing around that time, maybe close

to Thanksgiving actually.

there's nothing that people in the leadership and coaching

space love on a Saturday morning getting together and talking

about this stuff.

Am I right?

You're absolutely right.

Some people be like getting ready for

Yeah.

games and stuff like that.

what we do.

we're gonna talk about the stuff that we love.

So, we've had Bonita before and, I actually listened to

your episode this morning.

Bonita,

we'll put links to so people

Awesome.

But am give us, give us a quick intro, man.

tell us a little about you.

Well, the work that I do is, a very interesting, and unique work it's called

In Identity Architecture and Expansion, which, my specialty is in governance, and

if I could just put that in real layman's terms so we can talk like ground level.

I help

Thank you.

I appreciate it though.

we need some simple explanations.

what I believe my calling and what I'm called here to do is to help leaders

become who their next level requires.

So that they can carry

what they're being called to.

we do

Hmm

in the realm of leadership, life and legacy.

And so a lot of what you'll hear from me today is in governance and

how that relates, to stewardship.

Bonita and I, we both approach leadership through the lens of stewardship.

We just do it from two distinct different angles where they come together help the

hmm.

to grow in governance and ultimately, become who their next level requires.

Yeah, and I, the conversation that Bonita and I had, I guess it was a few

months ago, I can't time sort

Yeah.

all, all together.

I don't know if it's when you get to a certain age or just

the way life is moving along.

I felt.

I was inspired.

That might be a good word to say, by the heart and the story and things like that.

And one of the things, and I wanna go ahead and dive into it now, and I'm

gonna get your perspective on it, then I'm gonna bounce back to Bonita, is that

she brought up how word caregiver and all fit in with her leadership journey.

and part of it was, it seems like she's caregiver just wherever she goes.

Okay.

care of me all over the place.

can you give a little bit of background to your story to put it in context?

Just, the short synopsis.

'cause I do want us to get into some leadership and discussions, but the

perspective of where you're at, those watching the video now see you're

in, you, you're in kind of a, a a, a

bed.

Yeah,

situation.

Therapy bed.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Which actually looks, I, I'm not saying this lightly.

It looks comfortable, but still there's a reason for it.

Not, probably not, super exciting.

But give, give a little background for us.

I was diagnosed incomplete paraplegic in like, 2000 year 2000.

in that process of having a surgery, I ended up contracting staph infection.

So I had to, lay it dormant for a few years, and then it came to

the surface and caused my body to implode in several different places.

And in that process I did a lot of, acute wound care, had to be in the

hospital for a long period of time.

in 2007, I faced a situation where the doctors told me, that if I didn't have a

specific surgery, I'd be dead in 10 days.

I'm still here today and sometimes there's the part of me that's

like wanting to go back to 'em and say, Hey, you seeing dead people?

but really ultimately, it's God's glory that I'm here today.

But it was in that process, Tim, that, in that hospital bed, he told

me something in my life could be leveraged create something that I want.

And, in that period of time since then, you know, I literally built my business

a bed bound condition in the hospital.

Um, on for literally 13 to 15 years after that coaching training, doing

leadership, trainings and things of that nature from a bed bound condition.

I do have a condition of incomplete paraplegia and, decided to put it all in

a book that I'll be releasing later this year, or next year called How to make it

to the Top when you Can't take the Stairs.

Hmm.

identity expansion and the importance of operating from your divine design.

And so, Bonita has been extremely first of all, the level of my life.

And I get, if I get too caught up in her, this podcast is gonna take a far left.

but, she has been a gift.

Let's keep it pg.

Let's don't get, too saucy.

she's a gift from God.

She's an angel.

she has assisted me.

and while there are a lot of things that she does physically, the support in my

own identities, the support reminding me of who God created and call me to

be and to carry out due to things.

In fact, the only reason why I'm coaching today is because of her.

Mm

of her, the things that she led me to.

And ironically enough, the material that she had gave me, it just kept feeding

it, kept feeding me and feeding me.

she gave me a book and I read the book and it had a number in it, and

I reached out to the office that was in the book, and I got the owner and

she put me on a path and led me to a relationship that, I've carried and

developed for many, many, years from that.

And so this whole path of coaching and things of that nature was something

that she helped to awaken within me.

And it's been an amazing path.

So when we think about the dynamic of caregiving, it's not just about physical

mm.

because if you just look at it from that lane, that angle,

it could be very burdensome.

You know?

It, it can

Yeah,

I'm not trying to make light of it.

Because I know I'm a tough case to deal with, you know?

But at the same time,

I sense that in UAMI sense that you'd be tough.

Tall glass of water, but tough to deal with at the same time.

So, it's just, it's a beautiful.

Peace because the balance and how, you know, what she does for me and then

what God allows me to do, for her and

yeah.

supports me, which is tremendous.

She's truly indeed the arc frame that's keeping me up like this.

but at the

Yeah.

it's just been amazing because to see how God turns around and allows

me to support her and what it does, and it's him because I'm like, man, I

bonita's

completely above my pay grade.

I didn't even have the sense, of mine to be able to ask for

God for something like her.

and what she's given me has been life giving and life changing.

but it's

We, we, we interview, interview.

Seems like we lean in.

Maybe it's just what we attract a lot of, guys, you know, kind of like us.

that talk a lot and run our mouths and it's a fairly common theme.

A few things are common.

Number one, everybody's on this unique journey with their own struggles

and challenges and things like that.

We love to lean into that.

But there's another thing that's in common.

It's like every guy, went way up the food chain with their spouse.

It's like every single time, you know, Benita asked early, he says, oh, I thought

Gloria might be joining us on this call.

maybe we did put that in the email or something.

It's like, well, yeah, we

Yeah.

had she been on here because I, I went way up the food chain too.

So congratulations on that.

Benita, I want to come back to something on ams.

I want to drill down on something that was, I want to ask him about his pre 2000

life in just a second, but me, respond, I guess, to what he said, because I

believe words are powerful

absolutely

is.

in the power of the

it is.

And to hear, a couple either male or female speaking of

their spouse in the way am did,

just is nourishing

how to put a smile on my face,

But,

so.

I want to hear your response, but I'd love to hear a little

bit about how y'all connected because, you know, I know that you,

you know, you had a, a

Mm-hmm.

and at some point along the way

Mm-hmm.

He was obviously, in a, position where he's in roughly now, I

think at the time y'all connected.

So tell me a little bit about that.

But then I do wanna go back.

There's some

things I want to ask about identity

prior to 2000 for

Sure.

Absolutely.

So, one of the, the biggest things about our relationship is that we

were friends, before anything else.

You know, I met him actually, during the work that I was doing,

with the nonprofit that I was with.

we were, helping people who had disabilities in the community with,

advocacy and, independent living skills, training, things like that.

And so he actually became, one of our, consumers, at the center.

And so I got to really know him, know about, you know, his story,

his backstory, things like that.

And just.

He's just a really cool person, you know, and, we became friends and

so our friendship has been over the span of what, over 20 some years.

just started out as a friendship and grew from that.

I went through, a divorce, with my first husband.

and after that, our relationship blossomed from there.

but I, I, when I met a, he was already, you know, living the adjusted lifestyle,

in terms of, being a wheelchair user, trying to get access to services

and supports in the community,

And so, You know, I didn't know him prior to him having, a disability.

And so it was basically just, helping to navigate the process of change for that.

And then also just making sure that he knew, certain resources and things

like that, that were available.

But, what he mentioned about, introducing him to different books and things, he

always came across as a person that.

you know, could really, he just has a way with words.

I told him he's very influential.

He has a way with words, things like that.

And has he ever thought about, you know, coaching or doing something in that lane?

And so that's kind of how that process began.

just started introducing him to certain material that I was reading

at the time, certain coaches that I was following at the time, and

mentors and things like that.

And so that just kind of opened up the world, of coaching and mentorship for him.

Yeah.

with anything the AM does, if he is truly committed to it, he is going to devour it.

He's going to take it in and literally devour it.

And so that's what happened.

He just kind of found his niche, so, yeah.

Yeah.

And it doesn't hurt.

I mean, I was sitting there listening to him I'm going,

dang man.

Am sounds like Barry White to me.

Good gracious.

I

mean, he could just light into a song and I'd, I would be swooning.

I could tell you,

man, I'm going good gracious.

he has a gift.

to Barry White.

That may not be, some people may not know that reference.

Yes, absolutely.

I wanna dig a little bit because I love the love fest we're having here,

but I wanna dig into some principles.

Tell me what your life was like pre 2000.

I don't know what age you're at now.

I don't know what age you were then.

Maybe you could share that.

But I actually have some theories about identity that I

want us to dig on a little bit.

So tell me a little bit about pre 2000 am.

Oh, wow.

Keep it clean.

I feel like I'm living in a different

I feel

Hmm.

I'm living in a different lifetime.

a lot of what I had before 2000 I was walking, I was in

Hmm.

you know, another relationship.

I was in a, I was married before,

In that period of time, I think there was a lot of, searching, a

lot of searching, a lot of training.

I came out the, the, um, industry of finance.

I worked in banking.

I did, my, one of my first businesses was, financial advisory.

I worked, in the arena of, helping people, to, I could take tear a

mortgage apart, showing people how to, restructure to, structure

mortgages, provide the necessary, asset protection as far as insurance

coverage and things of that nature, and helping them to structure things.

And I didn't even realize it.

But even then, I was operating in some form of governance and like showing

people how to structure things, put it in place so that they can scale, scale.

But it was a lot of, trying to do something that would, allow me to be able

to get a stronger sense or, a sense of like what being successful in life was.

And, trying to do what I saw.

I was trying to model what I saw to become something more.

however, when this condition was introduced into my life,

it's like, man, now I'm living.

Because you get to see something, get to see something in life

that you couldn't see before.

while I'm tall in stature, I'm six eight.

I'm 52, 52 years of age.

A lot of, what I thought, what I saw in life, it's just

like I went behind the veil.

Like I saw something and I saw people and I saw situations and I gained a

heart for persons, with disability

Hmm.

of that nature.

'cause they was going through things I didn't even know, existed in life.

Yeah.

it challenged me in ways because, people, they just had this thing,

you know, like they look at you a certain way if you're disabled.

And I've had everything from, having people look at me and like, talk to

me like as though they thought I had some kind of, you know, condition and

I couldn't comprehend and all of that.

I pride myself on being very academically astute certain things, but they

looking at me and talking to me crazy and I'm like, you know, sometimes I

can be a cheerleader for foolishness.

I'll engage you in that for a minute just to show you, like just expose some stuff,

but at the same time, I hadn't lost that.

I hadn't lost that at all.

I just feel like life was totally different and it's hard to

speak on it and talk about it.

The one thing that I carry from it though is like, with everything I've gained, God,

I am just so ready to get back on my feet.

Yeah.

say this, Tim, it was Benita that told me when we were friends, this is powerful.

She said, God allowed your ability to walk like everybody else to

be impacted because he's gonna give you a walk like nobody else.

And I

literally

Yeah, that's.

I fell apart when she said that because she spoke.

To my purpose.

She spoke to who he created me to be.

And even though I'm still in a chair, I do believe, you know, in me being

able to walk again, but I'm walking in so many different ways now.

I've touched lives.

I've impacted, people through my coaching and training and leadership.

I've done things that I never thought I would've ever before.

Yeah,

grateful,

for it all.

So I don't, I'm not trying to dodge the question, but it's just like, it's

hard to think about what it was before because whole life is seen through a lens

and that I, like, this is what I know.

yeah.

and I listen, I believe that has a way of equipping us.

of the situations we're in, I think sometimes we have this, and especially

in the world we're in today, and this also feeds into leadership.

We have this perfectionist mindset of the way things should be.

But yet that's not really the world we function and operate in.

I, spend a lot of time studying first century, the time that the

New Testament was written so that we could have a proper perspective.

Many times we take scriptures, we try to apply it to our modern

perfection, mindset, et cetera.

But I, I'll be specific about it.

before we move on, you seem like someone who was, six foot eight,

you have an athletic feel to you.

I don't know if that's correct or not, and maybe I'm drawing assumptions and

many times people's identity, if it's wrapped up in their physical ability.

It takes a hit when all of a sudden they lose some physical ability.

I've spoken to a lot of former pro athletes and all that.

when they leave sports or whatever, they don't know what to do.

and I believe that identity with the ability to walk or hear or see or

speak or any of that kind of stuff, if it's lost, can really erode identity

until someone like Benita comes back into your life and speaks into it.

But you an athlete or physically, what were you able to do at six foot eight?

Good, gracious.

You were probably wanting to do some things, maybe, I don't know.

Or were just, you were just a tall, dark and handsome dude that, you know,

around and played cello or something.

I don't know.

No, interestingly enough, I think as it pertains to the identity lens, what

many people look at as identity really is more like the dynamic of the lens

at which we see ourself and we talk about self-concept, you know, that's

stoned around a lot in the arena of coaching, self-concept, how the way you

see yourself and things of that nature.

ironically, God gave me a musical ability and I was, really big and

like music and things of that nature.

I played sports, I did play some sports, and I was nowhere

near as good as I wanted.

I could tell you when I was in high school, I wanted to be recruited.

I wanted to play for Tommy Osborne, play for Nebraska, and I wanted to

be that, I had that kind of ambition.

I wanted to be super successful and have a lot of things.

And I just wanted to, live life through that lens.

interestingly enough,

when these things came along, I never saw myself as a person with disability.

I never saw myself as limited.

I never saw myself as like, well, I'm not just gonna go lay up under the bed.

While there was plenty of people that said, you have every reason or excuse

if you don't wanna do this and that you've gone through this condition

and we understand if you don't wanna do something more, I never saw that.

In fact, I didn't learn how to swim until after I became disabled.

never got on a plane until after I was disabled.

there were so many things.

I've done leadership trainings and things for cohorts.

I was part of a leadership group that we did, leadership training for, a Fortune 50

company, a division out in Southeast Asia.

and I did a lot of these things from this place.

when Paul talked about strength being made perfect in my weakness and the stages that

I have done, people say, lemme tell you something, you might be in a wheelchair.

But that thing is not a cripple.

It's not a crutch, it's a cape.

Because when you talk that wheelchair disappears.

I don't see a wheelchair, and that's all God.

That's all God and me operating through me.

I can't tell you the amount of people who said, man, I listen to you talk.

I have no excuses.

I was doing, leadership lectures in colleges before I had a college degree,

I, mean, there were things that have happened in my life that he has shown

his strength being made perfect.

Now, that doesn't mean I don't have moments.

That doesn't mean I don't have times where I'm like, boy, I wish I could

do this and I wish I could get up and well, you don't know if I could do this.

Boy, what I would do.

But I think it was, I don't think it was ever that God didn't want me to walk.

It was just a motive behind what I was wanting to do that

was wrapped up in self concept.

The ambition behind

Mm

I

can prove something.

I could perform something.

in entertainment and music, you do a lot of performing, you do a lot of that.

And so performing was instilled in me.

It was instilled.

And so now as I do the work that I do now, it's a lot of that dying,

ambition driven effort, proving, performing, and you see it so much

in business and so much leadership.

It's like everybody's trying to prove something and perform something

to get, you know, and I call that ambition driven effort, we help

to shift from that to alignment driven expansion where it just flows

mm.

And I'm not talking about like this puff, like, oh, you know, just

sit there and like flower child and, you know, thing all that.

No, I'm talking about where you allow.

God's life in you to flow and things that you do in leadership is by divine design.

when I think about that period of time and what I was before, I see so much presence

improving and trying to perform because I didn't like the way things were and I was

determined I'm not gonna be that person.

I'm not gonna, I'm gonna be more than that.

I'm gonna do than, than what I've seen.

And I'm going to constantly try to, you know, outlive

things that I had experienced.

Like I was constantly like living, like I'm above that now and I'm

above, you know, this and that.

And at the end of the day, it's like, man, to see how strength that

has come from that how God uses.

People may see me in the beginning in a wheelchair, but they sit and

they listen and they're like, man, I could listen to you talk all day.

I've heard some of the things that you say, but I haven't heard it

through the way that you shared it.

And that's what changes everything.

So the, a couple of things, and I think we've now caught up.

I've allowed to catch up to the conversations I've had with Benita.

So we're gonna spend the next probably 30 minutes diving into kind of how

two of you have merged your leadership journey and things like that.

But one of the things that jumped out at me was I think one of the biggest.

I don't wanna say struggles.

Challenges that I see with we're lumping things.

Leadership's a big word.

In fact, I think leadership isn't a good word general nowadays because

it throws so many things at us.

But say in general, is attempting to be somebody that you're not to strive for.

I believe in stretching.

I really do.

But I also believe that we kind of have to understand who we

are and what we're equipped for.

And like you said, and I've talked to Benita about it, we've

gotta allow God to be God and for him to operate in our lives.

Because leaders listening in can at times start thinking that we're all, that,

you know, we are, we look at the skills.

you are a great speaker.

But you show up in a wheelchair and that showing up with that vulnerability or

something that's perceived as a weakness, I'm not gonna say it is a weakness, but

it's perceived, opens the door for people to hear things that they need to hear.

when Benita shows up, she shows up and says, I went through a crash.

I was not sustainable.

I wasn't the sustainable C-O-C-E-O, I was broken.

and I think at our root coaches leadership, people training, we had this

tension between speaking with confidence.

Can cross over into cockiness or arrogance.

I have that issue.

I will readily admit it.

My wife tells me, when you speak, it really

comes across as if you know

Hmm.

And I said, I don't know how to change that tone.

it is a success tool in our world we're in

today, but

Mm-hmm.

Hmm.

heel.

I think many times our superpower can become our weakness.

anyway, Benita, let's start tying some things together here, and I'm gonna

let you kinda lead us here as we go through the next handful of minutes.

How has it impacted your leadership journey?

Not necessarily the physical, but that mental that we just heard

some of that wisdom that he shared.

And do y'all just sit around and talk coaching and

leadership stuff all the time?

Like who does the laundry?

Right.

I wouldn't be able to do the laundry

because

Yeah.

my wife and I do that.

We do that too.

And then just so you

You do the laundry.

right?

I'm about

to, after we finish this

There you go

the laundry.

But anyway,

Yeah,

Share, I mean,

Yeah,

let's just kinda let, let's

just kinda

absolutely.

Um,

I would say, am helps me with the laundry for sure.

So he does have a part to play.

But yeah, it's so interesting because, hindsight is always 2020 again, I have to

revert back to our friendship days and, you know, and we're still friends today.

Let me make sure I say that.

But when we were just friends, We would have these dialogues all the time,

about leadership and about growth.

'cause I was very much into, the whole self-growth and

things like that, at the time.

And so I was reading a lot of self-help books and, you know, that's the kind of

material that I was, actually passing along to a e and we just, we had really

good conversation, really good dialogue

I would say probably as we just continued to talk and continue to grow and learn

more about each other, we realized that we both had strengths, that we could pull on.

And so we kind of bounce ideas off of each other.

we recognize, the spiritual gifts, which is very important, to recognize your

spouse's spiritual gifts and, their spiritual strengths and things like that.

And then recognize where, your spiritual gifts kick in and how

to marry those gifts together.

So, AM is very much a great.

Or Ada, he's a great, he can speak and he has that gift as a part of his gifting.

the word of knowledge is a strong gift that he carries.

And so a lot of times I feel like I have my own personal coach, when other people

are out looking for, coaches and things like that, of course to grow and things.

But I feel like God just gave me my own, personal coach.

'cause I'm always going to him about ideas, going to him about,

Discussions and just different things that are on my mind and

my heart, and we talk it out.

he's very big on communication and so, that's a huge one for us as well.

It's just our ability to communicate, to really share, what we are both feeling

or what we are both trying to express and respect what it is that we're both saying.

I, I consider myself, Somewhat a, a a alpha female, and he

is of course an alpha male.

And so sometimes our differences of opinions will clash.

but we have worked it out over, 16 plus years now of marriage.

So we've learned how to coexist and allow those instincts to coexist together, but

still, be able to help each other out.

And so I think that's the strength of.

working together where you both know what you're after, what you're going

for, and you can both compliment each other along the journey.

You know, he respects, what I do and I respect what he does.

and we just want the best and to bring out the best in each other.

And I think that's the key to, you know, working together in leadership.

Yeah, so I've got a few windows that are up on my computer and his website

says,

Yeah.

am Williams.

You, I do think you have coach in your realm, but I don't know that

you specifically lean in that coach.

I think when we talked before, I shared with you that

I, at my core, I

Mm-hmm.

I've added strategy and things I've layered in.

But at my core,

I am.

Okay.

and I know you and I, caregiver and different things came

up in our last conversation.

Benita, tell me what are the things in what

you and am do that

Mm-hmm.

like if something let's just say the two of y'all worked together

with an organization or someone.

What are the things that are similar and then what are the

things that are different?

what is the things that your unique

are?

And then, I mean, I

Yeah.

already said his is probably

coach, but tell me

Yeah.

So I lean more towards strategist, consultant, and

so I am very detail oriented.

a MC is the big picture.

So he's always the visionary.

He's always casting vision.

He's casting vision for our house.

He's casting vision for a business, casting vision for our lifestyle.

Like he's the visionary.

I'm the person that puts the details to it, you know, I'm the implementer.

I like to get down to the details.

I like to plan things out, I like to be very specific in,

what it is that I'm doing.

And so when it comes to leadership and the work that we do together,

oftentimes our work crosses over.

It does, it kind of, connects and crosses over because you know,

without a vision of people perish.

Right.

But then you also have to have, implementers, you also have to have

people who know how to work the vision.

in leadership it's a lot about, getting people to buy in.

And he's great.

He's so good at that.

He's great at getting people to really buy in.

that's the influence and that's the impact, whenever you get, people to buy

into the vision, but for me, it's more about, okay, so we bought into vision.

Now who's gonna do the work?

what are we gonna do?

How are we going to move forward in the things that we've already set out to do?

And so a lot of our, leadership styles compliment each other

and kind of coexist together.

And, I think that's the brilliance of how, and only God could, only

God can do something like that really, to have it where, you're

so complimentary to each other's, leadership styles and things like that.

And so, that's what I appreciate the most about him is he's

always able to give direction.

he's always able to lean in, and for me to see the big picture.

'cause sometimes you can't see the forest for the trees.

and for me to be able to realize what the big picture is and not get so

caught up in the small details that, you end up, just a hoard of activity,

but you're not really moving forward.

And you've gotta continue to see where it is that you're going.

and for him it's just the opposite.

it's more like, you know, cast the vision.

What's the big picture?

What does that look like?

And then, leave the details to be delegated,

Gloria and I are very similar.

We both on strength finder's, strategy is

our number

okay.

strength finder

Mm-hmm.

but it looks a little bit different.

I'M strategy

at 10, 20, 30, 40,000 feet and she's

often strategy

Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

She is

Yeah.

the heck outta things and I'm just like moving bigger

organization around and all that.

What you, you mentioned, you know that

you can at times be alpha

Mm.

This, I think is, is some valuable conversation.

I'm about to ask both of y'all's opinion on this because I think it's

valuable for leaders listening in.

How do y'all handle conflict when something, when all of a sudden

the head's butt, or somebody wants

Yeah.

charge and, and sometimes a two-headed monster?

We know what that can look like.

I'm gonna ask you first Bonita, then I'm gonna, how, and you know, if

y'all have got an example or whatever.

'cause I do want this to be a real conversation here because I can see

that this, this, there could be some challenges here.

So how do y'all handle, how do y'all handle when something

comes up that's a conflict?

would say better these days.

Not very good.

Wasn't always the case, but definitely better these days.

again, I think it goes back to, something my husband shared earlier

and that is, the word governance.

You know, when you start to realize.

Who you are, the identity that God has given you.

And you start to buy into that 'cause you actually have to buy into that.

I think that what happens with a lot of us is that we don't, we hear things

or we may have been told things, maybe prophesied to you, may have gotten

dreams about, but are you really bought into who God is calling you to be?

Like who you really are in him.

And so that identity aspect of it.

what I'm learning, through my husband's teaching and sharing is that.

There's certain things that I'm really, really good at.

I'm confident in, and I should be the one to lead in that capacity.

And then there are other areas where he's really, really good.

He's solid, he's called to it.

It's, it's what God has put in him.

And so I yield.

to that I yield to what it is that he's very good and very strong at.

I think the more we start to buy in and we stay in our respective, places and spaces,

it helps to merge or bring together, you know, those leadership styles.

So, so that you can resolve conflicts, in an amicable way, and that that's.

That's kind of how I see it today.

Hasn't, again, hasn't always been that case.

But, today we're getting better at it because I believe we're

both being respectful of the areas that we've been called to lead in.

So that's how I would sum it up.

Well.

if we said, oh,

we never have conflict, that would be

Oh yeah,

world.

people that

are growth minded, we're

Oh yeah.

we're doing things Alright.

I am, I'm

Hmm.

you the same question and, and there is only one right answer for you, but I'll

allow you to say something different.

And

it is, the way we handle conflict

Yeah.

always right.

I'm, I'm wrong and I just yield.

how do y'all deal with conflict?

How do y'all work through things?

I, I'll, I'll add a little humor to this.

and maybe it's a joke that, leaders can be able to take with them if you

can handle it now with discretion.

If your relationship can't handle it, don't do it.

But a long time ago, a man asked me, who wears the pants in your house?

Out of ego.

I said, I wear the pants.

And I said, well, who wears the pants in your household?

He says, she does.

I just tell her what pair to put on.

Okay.

Hmm.

governance man is tough because when you're so used to being the manager,

when you're so used to being the one, oh, well this is what's needed.

Men take a lot of pride in that.

You know, as a leader, I, look, I do what I want to do.

I, I, this is my business.

This is what I want to do.

This is what we're gonna do as is how, and I'm gonna be the

manager this whole situation.

Well, my wife is exceptional at management, okay?

She's an exceptional manager, but me willing to let that go.

Govern is is the key.

so many leaders feel like they got to do everything to accomplish anything.

When you learn not to just delegate a role, empower

authority, that's the difference.

moves from.

You do what's in your design.

It's not that one person is better than the other.

It's you have a

design.

Yeah.

You have a design in which you do things, and so you lead differently.

You got to appeal to whose strengths are in what and when

you learn how to govern in life.

You learn how to govern in leadership.

You learn how to govern in legacy, you learn how to do these things.

it really, everybody gets to reach their full potential.

So as I begin to learn more about governance, then I'm able to

say, okay, this is her design.

So I have to relinquish and say, okay, I'm gonna empower her to be able to do this.

And that's by putting

structure

That's good.

in place so that she can now, okay, I got this part, now I can

take it from here and be okay.

And let that go.

But that takes

growth into it.

Yes.

People hold on to things like their

Hmm.

They

never want to leave the house.

You never let them reach the maturity that they need to

grow in governance themselves.

'cause you're always holding on to something.

And so when you learn how to release and say, okay, that's what you are great at.

so therefore I, you have to operate according to your design.

I have to operate according to mine.

And then we grow in that, we grow.

And how we flow and conflict is minimized.

But I would also like to add something to what Bonita was saying earlier.

A coaching term that I believe really helps to really support

each other is holding space.

Benita doesn't have to be super to be my wife.

She operates supernaturally, but she doesn't have to be perfect.

she can have her moments.

And so when she's having her moments for me to hold space for her and

let her have that moment, and then share what God gives me to share

with her, not to look at her and say, look, this is what's wrong with you.

This is what's wrong.

You know this, but hold space.

And then for her to do the same for me, I have moments, she's like, you

know what, okay, I'm gonna let you have your moment, let you do that,

but then we gotta come back because again, your divine design is too

important for what God has for us to do.

And so as we begin to come back to that and, and if we begin to look at

leadership as like, divine design is too

important.

Mm-hmm.

For me to not be in it, and that this organization do what God created it to do.

If we don't, that's the biggest thing.

So that's why it has to start with identity.

If you don't understand your divine design, then you're constantly

gonna be stepping on somebody else's toes and trying to do

everything that they're doing.

You need to be the hero.

You need to be the one to save the day.

You gotta do everything for anybody to accomplish anything.

it's just not, that's not sustainable, and it's definitely not scalable, you know?

So if we don't get that part right, we miss everything, that's just alignment.

When I operate according to my divine design, she operates

according to her divine design.

Where there is unity, he commands the blessing.

so I wanna be in unity.

I wanna be that I don't want to just take

Hmm.

and, you know, just to get along and tolerate things or whatever.

I share what I feel about it and then we go on.

But at the same point of time, it doesn't mean it has to be conflict.

You right.

My greatest conflict is not with my wife.

My greatest conflict is within my greatest conflict is fighting who I

was versus who God created me to be.

When I work through that conflict.

And sometimes she gets caught up and, you know, she, she's,

the object of like, misfire, you know, and she gets that a lot.

But it's because I'm wrestling between who I was and who God created me

to be as it pertains to how I lead.

lead.

in my household, lead in my business lead in life.

It's not her.

Oftentimes it's not her, it's me.

And so

understanding that, that's

key.

I will say though.

we have not yet figured out, you know, when it comes to,

what we're having for dinner.

We have not yet figured out

this is not,

'em

How to handle

this is not work

can't get it up.

You can't win 'em all.

when it comes.

things just forever.

We,

ever.

There.

we haven't been able to figure that part out yet.

I could fast for three days in a row.

So if we go eat, it's up to you, sweetie.

we'll figure it out.

It's beautiful.

I love what you said.

There's a couple things pop to mind.

I am not one that uses profanity.

I grew up in the Bible belt and it never comes outta my mouth.

and we're a clean show here, but I'm gonna bleep myself out because there's

a phrase that someone brought up to

Mm.

that is sometimes you just gotta let that bleep go.

That's one of

Yes.

that came to my mind.

the second thing was the word stewardship.

Bonita, I'm gonna throw it over to you in just a minute 'cause

I think you and I. Skirted.

This the last conversation, but I think it ties in with this, you said

something that, you know, if you're not sustainable, you can't scale.

The unfortunate thing in the world we're in today is so many people

are hustling after scale they're not sustainable, and we see the results of it.

We're building a company right now that's in quite the

Hmm.

phase and part of some of our roles is to create some sustainability,

foundation, some structure, et cetera.

But, the biggest thing that you said there, and I think it ties

into stewardship that I'll, again, I'm coming to you in just

a second, Benita, so get ready.

I think you worded it as best as I've heard on what our

journey's really all about.

And that is identifying what we were created for, clearing out

all the junk and admitting the things we weren't created for.

Because often what we will do is we will get in this mode of trying

to be everything for everybody.

Sometimes that fits into the caregiver role too, Benita, that we try to be all

to everyone, and we do that in leadership roles and business roles and all too.

But I, I really do believe that part of our journey, the leadership

journey, that's one of our subtitles here at Seek Go Create eight, is

coming to terms with what God created us for and also what he didn't.

I believe that's part of stewarding what the gifts, talents, when we connect with

a spouse, identifying their gifts and talents, merging those together, not

conflicting where we can and all of that.

So, Stewardship, you know, let's kind of tie up with that and then we're

gonna talk a little bit about the sustainable CEO before we wrap up here.

so when it comes to stewardship, a big part of stewardship is stewarding well,

what God has given you, the identity that he's given you, who he's called you to

be, your assignment, the mantle you carry.

All of these things are directly related to and tied to stewardship.

We are to steward well, the gifts, talent, skills, abilities, the things

that God has given us in our domain.

You know, that's what he did.

Whenever he created man, he gave us a domain.

He told us, to take possession, to subdue, to replenish, to cover the

earth, to multiply all these things.

And so we are just steward well, that which God has given us.

And so stewardship is a big key.

and even in business, you want to learn how to go from what I call ownership

or self effort or performance that my husband was talking about earlier,

to stewarding, to understanding that, you know, you're not necessarily

owning everything but you, but you are managing, you're stewarding what God

has, has allowed and giving you to do.

and that's a big responsibility.

So yes, stewardship is definitely directly connected and related

to, how we see ourselves, the identities that we have in Christ.

And what we are here to do.

And being able to govern it.

Yeah, I think you said something in there.

I'm gonna pull out just a little bit more, and that is when we start

thinking we own and control you.

Last time you and I talked, we talked about control.

When we get confused and believe that we are in control, which also means we

kind of push God down to a lower level.

he might be someone that we honor and respect and

acknowledge, but we don't submit.

That's me, that's my thing.

Probably a lot of leaders listening into and also a lot of relationships

and don't understand that we don't own this business and this company.

We don't own these skills and talents.

We don't own this spouse that he blessed me with.

we don't control it or own it.

We steward it and, and we have to give it back when we're done in a better

condition than when we received it.

That's the thing that I think is a challenge for a lot of us.

We think, man, you know what, I gotta, I gotta make this better and all that.

So I think that fits into this word we're gonna finish up with called

Sustainable your book, sustainable CEO, which I appreciate Sabrina

and y'all sending it over my way.

I think you sent it after our last conversation though.

Is this something you wrote since then?

Yeah.

Wow.

Well you are cranking it out here.

This is the subtitle.

I love subtitles.

'cause I think often they tell us more than the titles unlocking

the Divine Overflow sequence for Leadership Alignment and Legacy.

Those are some big words there.

Tell me about those.

Yeah, absolutely.

So the sustainable CEO is a book, I believe just Download From Heaven.

That's what I say.

that came to me, as I was doing research basically for just understanding more

about leadership, understanding more about how God wants us to align with

our divine design, and then the legacy that we all desire to lead, right?

And so as I dug into this, God really spoke to me and he was like, you know,

we don't have to miss the mark on this.

We don't have to guess, you know, how to, to be in alignment

and how to, to have sustainable growth and even scalable growth.

We don't have to miss the mark on it.

There's actually a divine design.

There's a divine pattern, I should say, or sequence of how we can,

sustain alignment so that it reaches.

the leadership levels that we are aspiring to and also leaves the legacies that God

wants us to lead and we want to lead.

in doing so, there is a sequence that he has given me that's

spelled out in the book.

It's basically seven steps that they're not all linear steps.

You can find yourself in any one of these, seven, steps.

But the idea is that there's this cyclical, cycle that we go through,

to continue to sustain what it is that God has given us to.

that sustainability is tied to stewarding it.

It is the mantle of stewardship and how we are to govern our lives and

govern things that God has given us.

And so, that's what I talk about in the book, those seven steps

to how leaders can do that.

Yeah, and I read it.

It's actually a good, it's a good read for a leader because it can be quick,

it's concise, but it's got good content, not a lot of fluff, which I like.

Hey, am I'm gonna let you do something kinda unique.

You got 30 seconds, so you gotta be quick here.

I want you to do a quick commercial for her book.

I want you to tell people why they should read Benita's book.

You haven't written yours yet, so we're not gonna let you promote it.

You gotta write a book first before we promote it.

Do a real quick commercial for her book.

Oh, there it is.

Oh my gosh.

I have written, a book.

It's just my new one.

how to make it to the top when you

Yeah,

It's not out yet.

but, as far as the sustainable CEO goes, if you are a leader that

is truly, we know, we talk about, you know, we wanna make impact,

we wanna operate with influence.

And yes, we do want to increase income.

I've never come across a business owner that said, oh no, I just don't,

I don't need to make any more money.

the first key to it is that, you gotta understand your divine design

you have to learn how to steward, you have to learn how to sustain.

And the way that you're gonna do it is you're gonna do that through

operating in the divine design.

You really wanna understand how to usher in overflow into your life, how to

operate in it and let it flow through you.

Then you're gonna have to learn how to become sustainable.

the sustainable CEO is an amazing read.

it's a great reference material, and you wanna continue.

Don't read it once, continue to go back to it, read it often, and, it will help you

to Grow and move you towards governance.

governance is the mature form of stewardship in this

When you get this divine overflow sequence, you're going to move and

mature into governance so that you learn not just how to hold everything

together, but to begin to govern it.

You don't have to, try to make this happen.

No, you move away from grind and you learn how to govern overflow.

I believe that this is an amazing, piece of material.

In fact, don't just get it, get it today, and allow it to operate, in your life.

Put yourself on the path to greater governance through the sustainable CEO.

That's good.

Thank you.

we'll include some links to your stuff below, but, we have to

acknowledge Bonita's the star here.

we're just bit players in this world.

Hey, Bonita, last words from you.

Give a word of encouragement to either I'll let the Holy Spirit

lead you here to either a leader or, a couple's type, since this has

kind of had a couple's theme to it.

Someone who might be in a role that they're maybe challenged with.

some of the things we talked about just dealing with, leadership

and all from a couple standpoint.

Just, just, you know, real quick word of encouragement that,

that we could finish up with.

Absolutely.

Again, I just wanna thank you and thank my husband as well

for being here with me today.

I really appreciate and we are able to get together and have these type

of conversations because I believe it just strengthens the body.

So, thank you so much, Tim for, sharing your platform with us today.

I would say, it's something I wrote actually in the book and I just wanna

just kind of reference it because I think it's fitting for today.

the key to it all is surrender.

The key to it all is surrender what we're talking about.

surrender, who you used to be, surrender your old identity,

surrender, the way you used to govern, the way you used to do business.

Things like that.

Just surrender to that.

There may be something more, there may be something greater, there is

something greater that God is calling you to surrender those old patterns.

surrender is the key.

It's the starting point for change.

surrender that ownership.

If you wanna move into stewardship, surrender.

Having to take responsibility for so much, instead of just receiving first,

before you pour out to other people.

that's where my caregivers, you know, surrender, receiving,

before you, you pour out so much.

So if we just operate in the words of or in the heart posture of surrender.

But just the beginning of the divine overflow sequence, then all

these other things shall be added.

So it's so fitting for, this podcast to be called Seek Go Create, because that

chapter, of the Bible, that scripture, where you talk about, you know, seek first

the kingdom of God and this righteousness, all these other things shall be added.

Well, how do you do?

How do you get there?

You get there through surrender.

And the sustainable CEO is a book to help you to surrender areas to God

that you need so that he can show you how to be more, of a steward.

And that will lead to being more of a sustainable CEO

according to your divine design.

Surrender's good?

Yeah, I, again, it could also be described as, let that blank go.

coach Am Williams, thank you for joining us.

coach at heart, man, what a great sound.

Great voice, great words, great wisdom that you shared.

I appreciate that.

And, Benita, great to have you on again, the sustainable CEO.

I've got a copy right here that they shared with me, For those

that are watching, pick that up.

And, I appreciate this conversation.

I love getting couples together that are doing things together.

I think the Lord has some projects for you two where you'll be working

together more than you currently are, because I think leaders need to hear.

Couples that are working together.

So take that for either just a, little nugget or prophetic

or whatever you want to.

We're seek, go create here.

We have conversations just like this every week.

We like to go deeper.

We like to discuss the things that are really important.

as Bonita just said, seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness and

all these things will be added to you.

From Matthew 6 33, I realized in my life that I was chasing after those

things, I had that verse flipped.

And we're looking for people here that wanna listen in, that know they need to

get the order right on that scripture.

So thanks for joining us.

We've got new episodes every Monday.

We're over on YouTube, we're on all the platforms.

Keep listening in, commenting.

Great things are going.

We will see everyone next week.

Thanks for joining us on Seek Go Create.