Speaker: 00:00:00

in his little data center layer, wherever you want to call it.

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I could not help but think how much power it would require to run that facility.

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And the fact that he's got multi-layers, you've got alligators in the waters and all those

little platforms moving in.

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That's a lot of moving parts.

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All of that has got, I'm assuming, like, unless it's purely mechanical, I doubt it.

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It's got an IP address.

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I mean, it's hackable, right?

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Like, but the power behind all that, it's got to be like...

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Enormous!

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Yeah, well, you see later in the movie that he gives away his assistant gives away the

location of the secret door to get in.

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that, you know, even with the best security, you know, you're going to have a human that's

going to end up giving it away.

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What are you going to say, Greg?

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I was just going to build upon that when you think about his location, it's adjacent to

water.

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And a lot of our big cloud providers are building their facilities close to water, helps

with cooling.

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One of the biggest expenses with data centers is not just the power of the infrastructure,

but the powering of the cooling to keep the infrastructure from melting.

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And whether it's his laser beams or the solar side are coming down, maintaining the

environmentals is just as important as providing clean power to all of those resources.

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Yeah, bet he doesn't have a zero carbon footprint.

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up.

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A lead certified building, I don't think.

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I don't think he cares.

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This episode's sponsored

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software.

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Good afternoon, good evening and welcome to Technophile Real Talk.

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We are back.

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And today I've got two more friends of mine, Greg and Grant are joining.

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And let me just tell you, I think I stalked one of them and I don't know if you know this,

Grant.

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I kind of stalked you the last like almost a year now.

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Are you aware of this?

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My apologies.

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I mean, had I known, I'd have turned around.

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Or actually you probably should have run further away.

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But no, I met Grant last year at a cybersecurity conference.

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Checkpoint was there, had a huge booth.

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And I was there with a friend of mine who was a end user, CISO.

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And I said, my God, Checkpoint's there.

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We gotta go say hi to everyone.

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And Grant, you were the only one that actually talked to me.

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Everyone there at the booth was like, my God, who's this lady?

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She's crazy.

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Cause I was talking about, at that point it was called Checkpoint Real Talk.

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And they're like, yeah, no, we don't want to go on that show here.

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Go talk to Grant.

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Grant will do it.

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So you're like my Mikey that I've been stalking.

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That's right.

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That's right.

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I love all breakfast cereals as well.

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we just dated ourselves, which is okay, which is okay.

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Greg, welcome to the show and lucky you.

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I have just met you so I don't have the opportunity to I've been stalking you.

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So yay.

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Happy to be here.

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It sounds like Grant needs to do a better job monitoring his online presence.

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Yes, that's right.

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I need some ERM.

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Yes, know, external attack surface monitoring.

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Yeah.

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Hey now, haven't, hey, I haven't done any attacks yet, yet.

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But that's because you actually were so gracious.

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When I saw you at CPX 2025 in Vegas, let me tell you, you actually remembered me or you're

just like that.

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You said you remembered me, but that's okay.

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Now, I remember faces well.

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I mean, my name recollection fails me often.

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I'm so glad we often have name tags and the names are big and I can usually pick it up

from a distance, but I don't often forget faces.

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Thank you very much for you made my day.

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Cause I was like, e squeak, the grant remembered me.

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So, well, if it's any consolation, I ran into Mark Ostrosky.

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He was on the show, as well previously and

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Yeah, now that, you know, the amazing Marco, that's worth, you know, making a big deal

over.

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Everyone, check out, I'll put the link below for Marco's episode.

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He was so much fun.

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was he, I think he was with me with Eric Anderson.

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So shout out Eric Anderson.

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Thank you so much.

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He was on the show as well.

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I think we did Ocean.

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almost look like Mark.

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stop.

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You know he's gonna be watching this.

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the gossip.

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Love you, Mark.

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Well guys, hey, it is such a pleasure to have you and you know, this is like one of the

fun things about this show is you guys got to pick the show movies and TV shows that you

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guys wanted to do.

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So I got to ask you, Grant, why did you pick Mega Mind?

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Huge Will Ferrell fan, love the play on words.

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I think he epitomizes a very nimble, great salesperson in his ability to adapt.

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know, I just, think it's awesome.

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You know, I mean, how do you go wrong when the superhero is Brad Pitt?

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I mean, come on, man.

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It's, it's, it's great.

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I just, I've always had, it's in fact one of.

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Three movies I have downloaded on my phone from my own personal library, just because it's

one I like to be able to watch whenever.

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That's too funny.

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If I have that myself and it's Willy Wonka the chocolate factory whenever I just feel

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one though?

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First one, second one?

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The only one that, Exactly.

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So, okay great since we're talking about our all-time favorites, what's yours or not

all-time favorite?

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But what's what's on your rotation that you get to?

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have to just mention, Greg didn't participate in the movie selection.

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I was the one that had that gracious honor.

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by no means paint, don't paint Greg with the same stripes that

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I have to say, Grant, I'm familiar with the movie.

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I have voice actor 18 and 15 now, so this was kind right up the rally in the last 10, 15

years.

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And it's the archetypical superhero story with comedy spoof, spiff thrown in along the

way.

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Personally, just from an anecdote, my favorite movie of all time is Spaceballs, the

ultimate satire and scoop of the classic sci-fi trilogy.

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But in this case,

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You know, it really resonates both the characters, the interplay, and maybe some of the

poor decisions that they make that cyber criminals also make as well.

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Yeah, I just got my hair.

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Yes, I did actually get my haircut.

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And when I was there, I was looking and I noticed the space balls helmet, you know, the

hairdryer.

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Yes, there it is.

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It's a great movie.

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just inspired me to get that custom made and go to a conference one day just to like get

attention for whatever it is.

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maybe if you're speaking at like a panel or something, you just inspired me.

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Cause I've always loved that darn big helmet.

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So anyway.

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yeah, that's fun.

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Lord Helmet.

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Different podcasts for a different day.

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You know, but you know, someone did recommend space balls to review.

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So that is on my list for those that are uninspired.

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So stay tuned for that, everyone.

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We're going to do space balls in the future.

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All right.

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So are you guys ready for the first clip?

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I am.

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We are.

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I am.

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Awesome.

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Here we go.

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Miss Richie, we meet again.

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Would it kill you to wash the bag?

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You can scream all you wish, Miss Richie.

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I'm afraid no one can This reminds me...

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Isn't she screaming?

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Just the whole thing makes me think of- Like this.

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That's a poor lady's- That's the lab you're pretending.

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The evil lab layer

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You're in the lab practicing.

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It's nothing like the real thing.

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Well, it reveals all the secrets too.

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It's like, shows the face, shows the identity, shows the tricks of the tools.

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Stop!

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She's you nosy reporter!

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Gills, on your weak mind to find out all our secrets.

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Such tricks won't work on me.

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Social engineer?

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You're so-

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always the assistant who gives out the secret information.

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Yes!

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This is all the misspelled fishing emails of old, right?

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The great prince.

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There is a linkedin version of a prince of the shake that bothers people I know if you've

got him we miss him.

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He's gotten booted

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Yes.

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be hater

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The salesperson immediately improvises.

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yes.

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That is so true.

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Give it up, Megamind.

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Your plans never work.

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Let's stop wasting time and call your boyfriend in tights, shall we?

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comes to ransom or not

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That's obviously the high-tech guy, you know, he can't just use scissors he's gotta use

his laser

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message from the CISO

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Okay

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I am still waiting for the ability to fly like that.

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play along too.

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Should have known you

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Well they have the jetpacks now, they're just not for personal travel just yet.

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Okay, so question you guys.

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Okay.

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The fact that you've got the big screen projecting, okay.

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A, here's the projector and B, is it an internal projector like old school style or is

this like a project?

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are the robots that flew out of the guys in field.

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Using projectors.

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They're rear projectors.

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Rear projector or a drone projector?

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I think that it's uh cameras in the back and there's a guy behind a curtain over on the

side nice that that actually was really good on you know no no that's not where we are

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right lure them in

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They must not have anonymized their location on the internet using Tor.

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That's right, NAT.

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They weren't using NAT at all.

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Network address translation.

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my god.

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you know what's funny?

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How many of our acronyms that we use that like have percolated into the real world.

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So I remember texting some friends.

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I'm like, hey man, I'll ping you later.

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And then one person like ping what?

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And it was just really interesting because I forgot they're not in technology.

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In fact, they were Disney cast member.

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So they were just totally not of the realm.

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But one got it.

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Right?

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ID10T, come on now.

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I don't know what all those things mean.

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IDK.

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All right.

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Okay.

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So let's talk about this clip.

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Now, we made jokes about it, but like there is this assumption, especially for folks of us

like in IT, like I love the IT crowd.

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did one, we did a reaction to that, that the assumption is, know, IT people are thrown

into the dungeon or into the netherworld of things.

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Or in this case, the criminal mastermind has this layer, you know, of things.

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But if you really think about it, if you actually look like a...

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at a data center, right?

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There are cameras and TVs and all that everywhere.

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does have a little bit of that war games vibe to it.

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is fiction kind of meeting reality a little bit?

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It might be exaggerated, but don't you think there's some semblance of truth to it?

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I think that there needs to be a high level of security, especially when you're in a sock,

right?

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That's why you see all those cameras.

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That's why you see all that stuff.

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mean, trust no one.

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I mean, I think things we've seen for years depicted in science fiction, oftentimes we see

come to pass, right?

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So, it's gonna

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But also, though, Grant, the opposite is a little bit true, too.

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Though we see significant physical security controls around a lot of data centers, many of

them lack the proper cyber security controls, whether it's an enterprise data center or a

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hosted data center.

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If I'm a cloud provider, I'm often trying to protect my resources, but customers are

responsible for securing their own.

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Now, in the physical data centers of an enterprise, they may have to add responsibility.

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But a lot of times they're just taking a cage out of a co-location provider where that

co-loc provider is not providing the network security, they're providing the physical

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security to the cages.

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Come in Greg with the heavy.

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But it's true, right?

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No, it was perfect.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And I think, I think a lot of people don't understand the nuance.

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I just had a CISO who was on my podcast and he was talking specifically about that as

being one of the big differences when you go from on-prem to cloud that just doesn't

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always sink in right away for everyone, you know, the whole access.

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Well, and I mean, it's kind of like, we talked about this too, the old way of doing things

is it's hard to break those old habits of creating a group and all you work for Greg.

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well, I'll put you in Greg's group and it's easier.

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It's simpler.

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not always the best though.

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All right.

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So let's bring this back to Mega Minds though, guys, because in his little data center

layer, wherever you want to call it, I could not help but think how much power it would

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require to run that facility.

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And the fact he's got multi-layers, you've got alligators in the waters and all those

little platforms moving in.

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That's a lot of moving parts.

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All of that has got, I'm assuming, like, unless it's purely mechanical, I doubt it.

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It's got an IP address.

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I mean, it's hackable, right?

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But the power behind all that, it's gotta be like enormous.

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Yeah, well, you see later in the movie that he gives away his assistant gives away the

location of the secret door to get in.

246

00:15:49,785 --> 00:15:56,973

that, you know, even with the best security, you know, you're going to have a human that's

going to end up giving it away.

247

00:15:56,973 --> 00:15:58,484

What are you going to say, Greg?

248

00:15:58,678 --> 00:16:03,422

I was just to build upon that when you think about his location, it's adjacent to water.

249

00:16:03,422 --> 00:16:07,306

And a lot of our big cloud providers are building their facilities close to water.

250

00:16:07,306 --> 00:16:08,647

Helps with cooling.

251

00:16:08,647 --> 00:16:17,534

One of the biggest expenses with data centers is not just the power of the infrastructure,

but the powering of the cooling to keep the infrastructure from melting.

252

00:16:17,534 --> 00:16:26,912

And whether it's his laser beams or the solar side are coming down, maintaining the

environmentals is just as important as providing clean power to all of those resources.

253

00:16:26,914 --> 00:16:31,819

Yeah, I bet he doesn't have a zero carbon footprint.

254

00:16:31,819 --> 00:16:32,703

Yeah.

255

00:16:33,112 --> 00:16:35,307

At least by building, I don't think.

256

00:16:35,714 --> 00:16:37,126

think he cares.

257

00:16:39,135 --> 00:16:40,073

That's right.

258

00:16:40,073 --> 00:16:42,016

He learned that in shool.

259

00:16:43,288 --> 00:16:44,582

I don't know that reference.

260

00:16:44,582 --> 00:16:47,520

What is, school, my God.

261

00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,530

It's in the movie.

262

00:16:51,530 --> 00:16:52,382

That's right.

263

00:16:52,382 --> 00:16:56,712

And that's what he, I learned it in a place called.

264

00:16:57,026 --> 00:16:57,878

my god.

265

00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:01,174

It's in the movie, sorry.

266

00:17:01,174 --> 00:17:02,875

No, don't be sorry.

267

00:17:04,016 --> 00:17:07,698

I've actually never, I don't have kids, so I've never gotten to see it.

268

00:17:07,698 --> 00:17:09,227

So I've been watching it piecemeal.

269

00:17:09,227 --> 00:17:14,791

haven't had a chance to watch it all the way through because I actually wanted to be

genuinely surprised for it to see it.

270

00:17:14,791 --> 00:17:15,841

all right.

271

00:17:16,129 --> 00:17:16,599

last one.

272

00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:18,692

Roxanne Ritchie, I mean, she's awesome.

273

00:17:18,692 --> 00:17:20,981

I mean, she's terrific.

274

00:17:20,981 --> 00:17:28,024

Well, one last thing you'd mentioned on this particular clip that I want to mention and we

already talked about which is the social engineering component of it.

275

00:17:28,024 --> 00:17:41,510

She knew her enemy if you want to call it that right she educated herself she knew all the

you know attack vectors that would come after her right the idea of like the alligator

276

00:17:41,510 --> 00:17:42,140

cliched.

277

00:17:42,140 --> 00:17:50,774

Okay now you're do like, you know these whatever the machine gun whatever or grotesque Do

you think

278

00:17:50,952 --> 00:18:02,571

Even this day and age, you guys, do you feel we've educated the masses more or do we have

a more educated masses or are we still fighting that fight where with every subsequent

279

00:18:02,571 --> 00:18:09,428

generation, we have to remind people, hey, don't open every email that you receive from

mom, right?

280

00:18:09,428 --> 00:18:15,720

Or, you know, the shake doesn't need money from you if they're oil billionaires.

281

00:18:15,720 --> 00:18:18,752

So where does your head fall on that, you guys?

282

00:18:22,907 --> 00:18:32,971

I think there's less informed than there are more informed.

283

00:18:32,971 --> 00:18:50,638

think in general, think people are pretty aware of the old fishing, know, chic, kind of,

you know, I got $10 million kind of thing, but those are...

284

00:18:50,936 --> 00:18:52,808

Those are, think, long gone.

285

00:18:52,808 --> 00:18:55,511

I think it's going to get much more sophisticated.

286

00:18:55,511 --> 00:19:11,327

I don't believe mainstream populations really prepared for what's out there in the

technology and the implementation and utilization of AI and agentic AI.

287

00:19:11,327 --> 00:19:14,350

mean, they're going to kick the shit out of us.

288

00:19:15,440 --> 00:19:21,854

I mean, you're going to have the only way you're going to be able to win is you're going

to to fight fire with fire, I believe.

289

00:19:22,770 --> 00:19:29,115

Yeah, when you think about it, Graham, we have both our population of techno files and

techno phobes.

290

00:19:29,115 --> 00:19:38,201

And on one hand, the techno phobes, maybe they've gotten the message not to click on the

link and they're not the ones that are constantly on social media, you know, responding to

291

00:19:38,201 --> 00:19:39,012

those scams.

292

00:19:39,012 --> 00:19:51,030

But at the same token, the ability of hackers now to have more highly targeted and

customized and crafted attacks, emails, SMS, social media, and then those techno

293

00:19:51,160 --> 00:19:55,759

files who think, I'm digitally native, I understand these things.

294

00:19:55,760 --> 00:20:02,580

They're implicitly trusting of more online and social media, which is actually increasing

their attack surface significance.

295

00:20:02,580 --> 00:20:04,411

No question.

296

00:20:04,631 --> 00:20:17,658

I don't really believe people appreciate the enormous number of digital crumbs they leave

in today's world.

297

00:20:17,778 --> 00:20:26,002

You know, compared to just, you know, 10 years ago, I mean, when you look at every app,

banking,

298

00:20:26,062 --> 00:20:32,122

They're all implementing biometrics of some sort, fingers, face, right?

299

00:20:32,122 --> 00:20:41,782

That data, mean, I think it's far, far, I mean, we see this with our own tools, right?

300

00:20:41,782 --> 00:20:47,802

How many, some 500 attributes are looked at from the outside in.

301

00:20:47,802 --> 00:20:54,262

This is, I think, a big area that a lot of companies need to do a better job on.

302

00:20:54,296 --> 00:20:59,138

They've done a pretty good job from the inside out and certainly even larger companies.

303

00:20:59,138 --> 00:21:08,772

But I think the big risk still is how much those digital crumbs can be assembled, kind of

like mercury.

304

00:21:08,772 --> 00:21:14,024

You know, if I can put it all in the same Petri dish, all of a sudden it all comes

together.

305

00:21:14,024 --> 00:21:16,055

There's some reconnaissance.

306

00:21:16,055 --> 00:21:24,158

There's some powerful information that can kind of come out of that to compliment or help

arm an attack.

307

00:21:24,215 --> 00:21:25,196

Yeah.

308

00:21:25,196 --> 00:21:30,731

Well, and everybody has their kryptonite as we'll see here in a little bit with the copper

scene coming up and everyone has their weakness.

309

00:21:30,731 --> 00:21:40,269

And when we tell the whole world about it on LinkedIn, social media, again, we're making

ourselves more vulnerable to these customized and targeted attacks that may look like

310

00:21:40,269 --> 00:21:48,116

they're coming from a known trusted source, but really they're mega mine trying to hack us

and make us ransom victims here.

311

00:21:48,254 --> 00:21:51,027

And I think your point is really spot on too.

312

00:21:51,027 --> 00:21:53,358

think, you know, it's, it's.

313

00:21:54,800 --> 00:22:05,259

You know, was Stuxnet the lighting of the fuse that has become the race between these

nation states, right?

314

00:22:05,259 --> 00:22:15,797

mean, there's been a lot of, I've read articles about how that really set off this up

spiraling race.

315

00:22:17,068 --> 00:22:20,342

between these nations that cause they went son of a bitch.

316

00:22:20,342 --> 00:22:23,185

can break shit with this stuff.

317

00:22:23,185 --> 00:22:28,034

You know, if I do the right code, That's, that was a revelation.

318

00:22:28,034 --> 00:22:38,870

I mean the fact that whole Stuxnet, I mean was that we knew we know nation states Okay

have their own arms and we know that's happening right but the idea being of it like being

319

00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:50,226

recognized like We have admitted that this Stuxnet was clearly not you know Joe Schmoe

teenagers kid having fun You know with us some script kiddie type thing, right?

320

00:22:50,226 --> 00:22:54,799

So I mean it was crazy and the idea I think I think we've woken up to a lot of it.

321

00:22:54,799 --> 00:22:56,770

But I mean we're kind of like

322

00:22:57,004 --> 00:22:58,114

diverging a little bit.

323

00:22:58,114 --> 00:23:08,017

want to pull this back to MegaMinds because it does require MegaMinds from here on out to

understand, like to keep thinking outside the box because there's always going to be some

324

00:23:08,017 --> 00:23:16,360

person that comes up over time that comes up with a new inventive way to penetrate some

network, good, bad, ugly, and different, right?

325

00:23:17,220 --> 00:23:18,740

We just have to always stay on top of it.

326

00:23:18,740 --> 00:23:22,988

So guys, I know we can talk all day, but we got to get to clip two.

327

00:23:22,988 --> 00:23:24,212

we ready for that?

328

00:23:25,280 --> 00:23:27,167

All right, let's do it kids.

329

00:23:27,167 --> 00:23:28,089

All right.

330

00:23:29,262 --> 00:23:30,988

Ready the Death Ray menu!

331

00:23:30,988 --> 00:23:33,079

Death Ray Readying!

332

00:23:39,638 --> 00:23:53,758

Is this is this Our release is coming out next month can be corroded over time Justice is

a non corrosive metal but metals could be melted by the heat of revenge It's what I love

333

00:23:53,758 --> 00:23:57,838

this exchange hole, but it can be easily reheated in the microwave of evil.

334

00:23:57,838 --> 00:24:01,998

Well, I think explaining security to the board

335

00:24:05,077 --> 00:24:06,891

Girls, you're both pretty.

336

00:24:07,503 --> 00:24:10,494

Sounds like cyber security insurance right there.

337

00:24:16,776 --> 00:24:19,676

And much like technology arguments, we really need it to work.

338

00:24:19,676 --> 00:24:21,048

It just sits there.

339

00:24:21,550 --> 00:24:23,310

Yeah, exactly.

340

00:24:24,050 --> 00:24:35,610

Or, mean, come on, we always see the, the, the, bars that are 98 % and it took two seconds

to get there, but then takes 28 seconds to finish.

341

00:24:36,578 --> 00:24:38,370

This end.

342

00:24:40,654 --> 00:24:45,196

know, should have brought the enterprise class bandwidth and not the consumer grade cable

motive.

343

00:24:45,496 --> 00:24:51,979

Well, this was back when we had a, we said we had a T1, but it was really fractional from.

344

00:24:52,078 --> 00:24:53,732

That's true, this is 2010.

345

00:24:53,732 --> 00:24:55,256

Your plan is failing,

346

00:24:55,256 --> 00:24:56,488

Just admit it.

347

00:24:56,488 --> 00:24:57,648

Good luck.

348

00:24:58,089 --> 00:24:59,531

Whose side are you on?

349

00:24:59,531 --> 00:25:00,742

The losing side.

350

00:25:00,742 --> 00:25:01,713

Thank you.

351

00:25:01,713 --> 00:25:06,979

Could someone stamp my frequent kidnapping card?

352

00:25:06,979 --> 00:25:09,738

Of all people, we discontinue.

353

00:25:09,738 --> 00:25:17,286

made me think about like the whole idea like bandwidth shaping and all that back in 2010,

it was still a new thing, right?

354

00:25:17,870 --> 00:25:19,250

What did he just say?

355

00:25:19,450 --> 00:25:20,910

Crab nuggets?

356

00:25:24,570 --> 00:25:38,270

Now, you know, this is a perfect example of a sandbox, you know, or, you know, luring you

in.

357

00:25:39,310 --> 00:25:40,886

It's like the honey pot.

358

00:25:44,310 --> 00:25:45,397

359

00:25:53,297 --> 00:25:57,892

that's so funny the deception right now who's fooling who

360

00:25:58,606 --> 00:26:01,205

Here comes the malware delivery system

361

00:26:02,018 --> 00:26:03,208

That's right.

362

00:26:05,993 --> 00:26:07,798

Yeah, diversion.

363

00:26:09,066 --> 00:26:10,689

Some distraction.

364

00:26:13,016 --> 00:26:15,148

slips in through an open door.

365

00:26:15,148 --> 00:26:18,192

That might have been the volumetric DDoS attack right there.

366

00:26:18,350 --> 00:26:22,392

Well, let's not get our hopes up just yet.

367

00:26:22,673 --> 00:26:23,613

Look!

368

00:26:23,993 --> 00:26:24,504

Metroman!

369

00:26:24,504 --> 00:26:25,434

Metroman!

370

00:26:25,434 --> 00:26:26,795

Metroman!

371

00:26:38,551 --> 00:26:39,454

You

372

00:26:41,548 --> 00:26:48,196

That's when you, that's airmail delivery of a product you bought online and then you saw

it, really.

373

00:26:50,158 --> 00:26:53,058

That is absolutely 100 % perfect.

374

00:26:53,298 --> 00:26:56,238

It's like the, I call it the team of deliveries, right?

375

00:26:56,238 --> 00:26:59,698

You sell one thing online and what you actually get is another.

376

00:27:00,308 --> 00:27:10,336

It's yeah, similar to online dating, I think today, you know, fortunately I'm not into

that too much, but I could only imagine.

377

00:27:10,414 --> 00:27:22,894

You know, had this conversation with someone else the other day is like, what a, what a

state of affairs of our lives today where 20, 30 years ago, 20 years ago, we made fun of

378

00:27:22,894 --> 00:27:24,354

people who did online dating.

379

00:27:24,354 --> 00:27:31,634

And then now fast forward, it's like, everyone does online dating more or less in some

degree for whatever purposes.

380

00:27:31,634 --> 00:27:36,212

I'm just saying it's more accepted than before.

381

00:27:36,212 --> 00:27:41,908

Every part of our life is online, whether it's our grocery shopping, we're booking Ubers,

right?

382

00:27:41,908 --> 00:27:44,961

I mean, you talked about dating or education.

383

00:27:44,961 --> 00:27:47,914

We're using technology now to record this session.

384

00:27:47,914 --> 00:27:51,718

Whereas 20 years ago, we'd have to go to a studio to do something like this.

385

00:27:51,796 --> 00:28:04,936

And what's also important is now there are websites that you just have to upload a few

examples of your voice or a few examples of your face and you can create avatars.

386

00:28:04,936 --> 00:28:18,808

So this recording, while for fun, could potentially be utilized to create a fake Greg and

387

00:28:18,808 --> 00:28:27,886

create a fake Greg's voice and the technology is getting to a point now where it's getting

really good and.

388

00:28:27,886 --> 00:28:32,809

It's still different than our conference presentations, whether it's at CPX or industry

events.

389

00:28:34,819 --> 00:28:41,301

We're YouTube and we're available for scraping with a great tools to replicate and

regenerate ourselves

390

00:28:41,912 --> 00:28:43,303

But it's going to happen.

391

00:28:43,303 --> 00:28:46,204

We haven't seen it happen much.

392

00:28:46,485 --> 00:29:00,955

We've, you know, I've, I've got a few examples in a presentation from a, a site called how

to fly where they did some deep fakes and there's a great website called, Hey Jen, that,

393

00:29:00,955 --> 00:29:09,451

know, you can, you can, experience it yourself, but this shit's getting, you know, the

old, is it live or is it Memorex?

394

00:29:09,451 --> 00:29:12,082

mean, we're back.

395

00:29:12,354 --> 00:29:15,840

because you're not gonna really be able to discern.

396

00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,037

It's gonna be difficult to tell.

397

00:29:18,582 --> 00:29:19,152

It is.

398

00:29:19,152 --> 00:29:25,706

mean, so as a content creator, right, we see a lot of tools that are available and they're

great.

399

00:29:25,706 --> 00:29:30,889

It helps, you know, just create more efficient, you know, tasks, get them done faster, you

know, whatever.

400

00:29:30,889 --> 00:29:31,989

That's great.

401

00:29:32,410 --> 00:29:45,402

But there is something to be said about your, tool you use, whatever AI tool you use is

only as good as its programmer originally, how they originally coded for, because there's

402

00:29:45,402 --> 00:29:47,104

going to be inherent biases.

403

00:29:47,104 --> 00:29:52,568

Yeah, the AI is going to learn and et cetera, but it's still learning from the biases of

humans.

404

00:29:52,568 --> 00:29:53,219

Right.

405

00:29:53,219 --> 00:30:03,916

And I wonder, and I'd like to think no matter how good these deep fakes look and whatnot,

there's going to be that like uncanny valley ish of it where you're like, there's

406

00:30:03,916 --> 00:30:04,907

something off.

407

00:30:04,907 --> 00:30:13,784

Like the eyes are slightly off or the tone of their voice is like, and there's something I

would like to guess humans, we should be able to maybe fight or flight it where it's like,

408

00:30:13,784 --> 00:30:14,824

some's not right.

409

00:30:14,914 --> 00:30:23,219

I'd like to think optimistically because heaven knows as the technologies of that nature

get better and better, we just have to be more diligent.

410

00:30:23,219 --> 00:30:27,482

But I argue guys, I'm gonna say something controversial.

411

00:30:27,482 --> 00:30:28,582

You guys ready?

412

00:30:29,654 --> 00:30:32,364

I think humans are inherently lazy.

413

00:30:32,725 --> 00:30:40,950

I think when they see these deep fakes and they see these types of things, they're just

gonna wanna trust and believe it because it's part of their worldview of thinking.

414

00:30:40,950 --> 00:30:43,213

and no additional research is going to be done.

415

00:30:43,213 --> 00:30:44,976

And I think that's going to be the big problem.

416

00:30:44,976 --> 00:30:46,858

Not so much that we can't detect it.

417

00:30:46,858 --> 00:30:54,258

Even if we detect there's some fakery to it, but because of what they're saying agrees

with our viewpoint, we'll just accept it as fact.

418

00:30:54,258 --> 00:30:55,790

And that worries me.

419

00:30:56,332 --> 00:30:57,542

I'll go one step further.

420

00:30:57,542 --> 00:30:58,723

our naivete, right?

421

00:30:58,723 --> 00:31:00,214

We want to believe, right?

422

00:31:00,214 --> 00:31:07,427

We want to believe that that video we saw, the TikTok, the YouTube, the Instagram,

whatever it is, that's inherently true.

423

00:31:07,427 --> 00:31:14,689

And I mentioned I have an 18 year old son and I feel like most of his facts he gets are

from social media or podcasts and things of that nature.

424

00:31:14,689 --> 00:31:19,510

you want to believe it if it aligns with how you believe, right?

425

00:31:20,494 --> 00:31:28,676

But even if lies with your belief, they stopped the, and this is where maybe the laziness

comes in, the validation, the fact checking, the cross-referencing.

426

00:31:28,676 --> 00:31:30,317

Who was the original source?

427

00:31:30,317 --> 00:31:36,178

The data that fed the article, whether it generated by a human or maybe an AI bot.

428

00:31:36,178 --> 00:31:44,261

You talked about the programmer's bias, but the data set that trains AI in conjunction

with the models collectively gives the output.

429

00:31:44,261 --> 00:31:49,710

And if you don't understand the data that went into the system, let alone the bias of the

AI engine,

430

00:31:49,710 --> 00:31:52,498

How are you truly to trust and validate the output?

431

00:31:53,570 --> 00:31:54,971

Yeah.

432

00:31:55,091 --> 00:32:09,561

Well, you know, I mean, when I think about how technology is evolving to the point where

it's undiscernible between live and Memorex, I mean, look at photographs, for example.

433

00:32:09,962 --> 00:32:10,767

Right?

434

00:32:10,767 --> 00:32:13,534

Can we at get a DVR or something in here?

435

00:32:15,484 --> 00:32:21,560

I'm talking about my old five and a quarter, you know, it's, or my reel to reel.

436

00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:23,008

Real to real tape,

437

00:32:23,190 --> 00:32:27,483

I still have a cassette player like boombox.

438

00:32:27,483 --> 00:32:30,685

We still use it when we play a pool in my house.

439

00:32:30,685 --> 00:32:32,386

So I have my cassette tapes.

440

00:32:32,386 --> 00:32:35,904

I have my own mixtapes I would make.

441

00:32:35,904 --> 00:32:45,961

Eight-track tape, think, you know, it would be a fun item to set down, you know, in front

of a bunch of youngsters, right?

442

00:32:46,136 --> 00:32:49,307

Well, they would think it's a thing of scotch tape or something like that.

443

00:32:49,518 --> 00:32:51,158

You're totally cracking me.

444

00:32:51,158 --> 00:32:51,578

Okay.

445

00:32:51,578 --> 00:32:52,558

Bring it back to make it mine.

446

00:32:52,558 --> 00:32:54,058

Bring it back to make a mind.

447

00:32:54,058 --> 00:33:00,898

Let us talk about files uploading and executing and like, like, like last like forever.

448

00:33:00,898 --> 00:33:01,818

Right.

449

00:33:01,858 --> 00:33:04,418

Um, that's a common problem, right.

450

00:33:04,418 --> 00:33:06,418

That we see oftentimes.

451

00:33:06,698 --> 00:33:10,378

I like I think even today.

452

00:33:10,722 --> 00:33:12,182

It's software.

453

00:33:12,242 --> 00:33:19,622

Remember Apple got slammed hard for this when your battery would say, ah, it's 97%.

454

00:33:19,622 --> 00:33:23,542

And then all of a sudden you'd look away and look back and it was at 12.

455

00:33:23,702 --> 00:33:26,142

And it was all software.

456

00:33:26,362 --> 00:33:28,762

And it's the same thing.

457

00:33:28,782 --> 00:33:35,902

When you have that little meter that's saying how much time it's passing, that's all.

458

00:33:37,002 --> 00:33:38,670

It's a good guess.

459

00:33:38,670 --> 00:33:40,058

It's not always...

460

00:33:40,782 --> 00:33:42,379

think it's a psychology.

461

00:33:43,097 --> 00:33:51,801

I was going to say, let me take that one step further because one of the things you saw in

the movie clip and we see in the real world is that the actual attacks that are launched

462

00:33:51,801 --> 00:33:53,891

don't come from the hackers then, right?

463

00:33:53,891 --> 00:33:57,202

They have their tools and their malware embedded somewhere else in the internet.

464

00:33:57,202 --> 00:34:03,884

They need to invoke this remote command and control to launch the malware, the phishing

attempts, the DDoS, et cetera.

465

00:34:03,884 --> 00:34:11,499

And it's that communication between the central hub and the brains and those tools on the

periphery that ultimately wreak havoc.

466

00:34:11,499 --> 00:34:19,784

And if you can potentially disrupt that command and control chain, you can potentially

stop the laser beam from shooting down or that cyber attack from being launched.

467

00:34:21,887 --> 00:34:27,435

Well, I was actually thinking, hey, the reason why it was uploading so darn slowly was

maybe it had a virus.

468

00:34:30,602 --> 00:34:33,223

Even their Starlink service was interrupted.

469

00:34:33,681 --> 00:34:34,749

There we go

470

00:34:35,240 --> 00:34:38,648

Or just really poor bandwidth.

471

00:34:38,648 --> 00:34:39,821

Hello, SatCom, right?

472

00:34:39,821 --> 00:34:42,787

You're having to go from terrestrial Earth all the way out to orbit?

473

00:34:42,787 --> 00:34:43,833

That takes a little bit of time.

474

00:34:43,833 --> 00:34:46,386

There's a lot more packet loss and latency going up there.

475

00:34:46,386 --> 00:34:48,197

So can I tell you my Starlink story, you guys?

476

00:34:48,197 --> 00:34:51,059

Because this is during COVID, right, when it launched, right?

477

00:34:51,059 --> 00:34:56,192

So I bubbled with another household.

478

00:34:56,192 --> 00:34:58,413

There three households, we all bubbled together.

479

00:34:58,413 --> 00:35:06,708

So I was at their house and I was going home and walking into my car and they were in the

backyard patio, know, enjoying the night air.

480

00:35:06,708 --> 00:35:14,254

And I look up and I see the Starlink for the first time and I hadn't heard, I think I had

heard about it, but I never really, you know, wasn't top of mind.

481

00:35:14,254 --> 00:35:18,854

So I'm just like watching, just kind of going and going, like, uh, guys, guys.

482

00:35:18,894 --> 00:35:23,794

And I'm like, I said something to the effect of like, I welcome you over more.

483

00:35:23,794 --> 00:35:27,534

It was like the neighbor, like, like was wondering what the heck was going on.

484

00:35:27,534 --> 00:35:28,754

But anyway, that was my star link story.

485

00:35:28,754 --> 00:35:34,274

The very first time I saw star link, um, it was different to see that's for sure.

486

00:35:34,374 --> 00:35:34,924

mean,

487

00:35:34,924 --> 00:35:37,345

I can't even remember the name of the...

488

00:35:39,150 --> 00:35:45,490

satellite service I had 20 years ago, but God, was painfully slow.

489

00:35:45,830 --> 00:35:53,270

don't know if it was EchoStar or somebody, but I mean, was, you know, 30 miles up to some

satellite.

490

00:35:53,270 --> 00:35:56,882

was the latency was pain.

491

00:35:56,882 --> 00:36:00,309

can get decent download, but your upload was always inhibited.

492

00:36:00,396 --> 00:36:01,670

It was painful,

493

00:36:02,688 --> 00:36:12,089

Okay, so, well, hey, so I know I could talk to you guys all day long, and Megamind

actually was a really fun movie to, like I said, I have been watching parts and pieces,

494

00:36:12,089 --> 00:36:12,930

I'm sorry.

495

00:36:12,930 --> 00:36:14,630

gotta watch it from end to end.

496

00:36:14,630 --> 00:36:15,470

gotta watch it.

497

00:36:15,470 --> 00:36:23,510

Then you'll understand Schuyl and some of the other references that I could make.

498

00:36:24,450 --> 00:36:26,210

It's a good movie.

499

00:36:26,350 --> 00:36:28,509

have to watch Fiddler on the roof first though.

500

00:36:29,166 --> 00:36:30,266

Yes, yes, yes.

501

00:36:30,266 --> 00:36:30,346

Yes.

502

00:36:30,346 --> 00:36:37,646

Okay, so I asked this of everyone on a scale of one to ten from a technology depiction

perspective.

503

00:36:37,646 --> 00:36:39,706

How accurate do you think it is?

504

00:36:39,706 --> 00:36:46,746

Ten being super accurate like training in school, shool, or one as pure entertainment.

505

00:36:46,746 --> 00:36:48,486

was entertaining.

506

00:36:48,962 --> 00:36:50,443

I'll go for the one.

507

00:36:50,806 --> 00:36:51,291

Wow.

508

00:36:51,291 --> 00:36:53,019

Not even know in between?

509

00:36:53,344 --> 00:36:56,071

I was gonna give it like a six or something like that.

510

00:36:56,071 --> 00:36:59,704

mean, you know, not to say that everyone has access to laser beams.

511

00:36:59,704 --> 00:37:10,268

You fish inside of a gorilla suit with a swimming inside and then talking.

512

00:37:10,409 --> 00:37:12,310

That's a one, baby.

513

00:37:13,693 --> 00:37:14,714

Well.

514

00:37:15,052 --> 00:37:19,002

the alligators and the fish in the bear suit are maybe a one.

515

00:37:19,002 --> 00:37:22,317

I was looking at more from some of the other technology elements in the layer.

516

00:37:22,317 --> 00:37:26,101

the flashing lights and I quit at three.

517

00:37:28,270 --> 00:37:42,517

All right, and okay another favorite question I have is is this was a 2010 movie I think

right or in the tens Kids today Would they relate to this as something as a pure

518

00:37:42,517 --> 00:37:44,363

entertainment or do you think it's something of yeah?

519

00:37:44,363 --> 00:37:45,878

That's the world they live in

520

00:37:48,716 --> 00:37:54,584

I, again, I'm still kind of closer to entertainment than depicting anything real.

521

00:37:54,584 --> 00:37:56,221

Definitely entertainment.

522

00:37:56,526 --> 00:38:00,426

Yeah, this is an entertainment movie just full disclosure guys.

523

00:38:00,426 --> 00:38:05,906

We've done movies like, you know sneakers and hackers and her Yeah, where it's a little

bit more philosophical.

524

00:38:05,906 --> 00:38:08,536

This is a little harder to get philosophical with

525

00:38:08,536 --> 00:38:09,425

Yeah.

526

00:38:09,518 --> 00:38:14,775

Well, the animation automatically makes it an entertainment, even though can be factual in

nature.

527

00:38:15,502 --> 00:38:17,703

Well, hey, so here's something that we could think about.

528

00:38:17,703 --> 00:38:24,087

Think about all of the data it would require to run this movie, right?

529

00:38:24,087 --> 00:38:27,809

Like to me, like this is something where, what movie was it?

530

00:38:27,809 --> 00:38:40,796

Was it, it was Toy Story, I think two, I think it was, where literally there was either a

fire or something and the movie was literally saved by a person on leave and they were

531

00:38:40,796 --> 00:38:44,778

working from home and they had the

532

00:38:44,958 --> 00:38:48,651

only backup to a major component of the movie, right?

533

00:38:48,651 --> 00:38:58,189

So, I mean, there's definitely some technology aspects to watching these types of movies

because we don't think about the massive storage requirements to run this in the

534

00:38:58,189 --> 00:39:05,225

computation and all those algos to do like, you know, hair flowing in the wind and all

that stuff.

535

00:39:05,225 --> 00:39:07,617

I think that's, I think that's the crazy cool part.

536

00:39:07,617 --> 00:39:09,900

I think of these types of movies as well.

537

00:39:09,900 --> 00:39:11,680

Thank you, Steve Jobs.

538

00:39:11,832 --> 00:39:12,721

Right?

539

00:39:13,334 --> 00:39:14,346

Yeah.

540

00:39:14,346 --> 00:39:21,391

It changed the entertainment industry, certainly from the animation side.

541

00:39:22,062 --> 00:39:22,862

Yeah.

542

00:39:22,862 --> 00:39:30,102

Well, I will say, um, uh, how to train, uh, uh, Dragon was on HP servers, but I'll just,

543

00:39:31,394 --> 00:39:35,635

Well, I think who's the Katzenberg?

544

00:39:35,855 --> 00:39:38,296

There's dream.

545

00:39:38,296 --> 00:39:43,697

See, this is also MegaMind is also a DreamWorks production.

546

00:39:43,698 --> 00:39:49,879

And one of the things you'll notice DreamWorks productions, they're a little edgier.

547

00:39:49,879 --> 00:39:55,281

They have a little bit more fierce villains.

548

00:39:57,741 --> 00:39:59,934

let's just say the.

549

00:39:59,934 --> 00:40:12,379

anatomical depiction of the characters might arouse 18 year olds more so than some other,

some other cartoons.

550

00:40:12,379 --> 00:40:16,311

mean, it's just what, I mean, if you look, that's their little edgier.

551

00:40:16,311 --> 00:40:18,061

That's just what they do.

552

00:40:18,402 --> 00:40:18,920

So.

553

00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:22,422

I think it's catering to like, you know, understanding the demographics of what you have.

554

00:40:22,422 --> 00:40:32,674

And I think that goes back to quite frankly, you know, with just technology in general,

talking about, you know, knowing our demographics and what's going to resonate better.

555

00:40:32,674 --> 00:40:43,263

Because like me telling my mom, talking about ransomware and the very real challenges, you

know, senior community faces, because they're like one of the biggest demographics that

556

00:40:43,263 --> 00:40:43,914

they go after.

557

00:40:43,914 --> 00:40:47,166

It can be difficult at times, man.

558

00:40:47,166 --> 00:40:48,110

So I think

559

00:40:48,110 --> 00:40:51,790

you know, a movie that would depict that, some of that, like, you know, the seniors would

relate to.

560

00:40:51,790 --> 00:40:55,050

think maybe that's a movie idea, guys.

561

00:40:55,310 --> 00:40:56,430

What if we do some

562

00:40:56,430 --> 00:41:17,875

I had heard, sorry, I had heard that Katzenberg was involved in the production of Toy

Story or somehow and wanted Woody to be meaner or, know, I mean, he wanted more of a

563

00:41:17,875 --> 00:41:25,292

fight, I guess, and it kind of went against, you know, the, who's the other pixel?

564

00:41:25,292 --> 00:41:26,252

Pixar

565

00:41:26,252 --> 00:41:27,289

That was

566

00:41:27,606 --> 00:41:36,862

Right, it was, but there was, I mean, there's been Katzenberg, Spielberg, remember?

567

00:41:36,862 --> 00:41:40,854

I mean, there's been some different efforts.

568

00:41:40,875 --> 00:41:42,796

Anyway, I just remember reading about that.

569

00:41:42,796 --> 00:41:49,580

thought it was interesting that he thought that was where they clashed or didn't

necessarily agree with his.

570

00:41:50,401 --> 00:41:50,951

Vision.

571

00:41:50,951 --> 00:41:52,102

Advisement.

572

00:41:52,600 --> 00:41:53,301

heard that too.

573

00:41:53,301 --> 00:41:55,952

I heard that Woody was supposed to be more sarcastic.

574

00:41:57,454 --> 00:42:00,156

And then, yeah, he got vetoed.

575

00:42:01,417 --> 00:42:02,296

So guys...

576

00:42:02,296 --> 00:42:04,583

You Billy Crystal, not Tom Hanks then.

577

00:42:05,006 --> 00:42:08,166

Oh, that would have been interesting.

578

00:42:08,166 --> 00:42:09,526

Billy Crystal, oh my gosh.

579

00:42:09,526 --> 00:42:11,306

Okay, The Prince's Bride.

580

00:42:11,306 --> 00:42:12,146

Okay, nevermind.

581

00:42:12,146 --> 00:42:14,106

This is where we're gonna keep veering off.

582

00:42:14,106 --> 00:42:17,286

You guys, it's been such an absolute pleasure chatting with you.

583

00:42:18,286 --> 00:42:20,426

So I'd love to have you guys back.

584

00:42:20,426 --> 00:42:24,006

You guys, if there's any recommendations for other movies, please let me know.

585

00:42:24,006 --> 00:42:27,746

Other people you think should join us, I'd love to have that.

586

00:42:27,746 --> 00:42:32,246

But on that note, guys, that wraps it up for another episode of Technophile Real Talk.

587

00:42:32,246 --> 00:42:34,606

until next time, see ya!

588

00:42:34,976 --> 00:42:35,670

See you.

589

00:42:35,670 --> 00:42:37,054

Thanks, Saya.

590

00:42:37,299 --> 00:42:37,861

See you.

591

00:42:37,861 --> 00:42:38,324

you.

592

00:42:38,324 --> 00:42:39,818

Thank you very much.