Welcome to Headroom, where we discuss all things essential to mental health and well being. I'm your host, Jim Owens, a licensed professional counselor at Lansing Community College. Before we begin, I'd like to emphasize that this podcast does not constitute psychotherapy. It does, however, introduce you to some phenomenal people who have incredible ideas for you and your life. Having said that, let's get into the Headroom and begin today's conversation with Stephen McCorry, student at LCC.

Let's get it. All right.

Good morning, sir. How are you?

I'm good this morning.

Very good. So introduce the listeners to who you are. Just tell us a little bit about yourself.

Like, I'm Stephen. I'm a father of two sons, 10 year old and 5 year old. I'm a MC, like a rapper. I took a break this year to write a book and that's done. So I just need to put like a couple finishing edits on that and then publish it. Okay, so that's. Who am I? That's a hard question. Like what part of my identity do

I. I still like, think of it this way, like how do you describe yourself to people? So poet, musician, author.

Yeah, Recovery coach, I guess in this season. You know, that's. It was funny cause it was just a paper I was writing for one of our classes was asking about my identity and I was like, well, my identity is more like the roles I play and more specifically the verbs attached to those roles.

Okay.

So like who I am is very like context dependent.

Right. It's like what you're doing, not what you are.

So much what I'm doing and not what I am. Yeah, like I feel like what I'm doing is a lot more like closely accurate of like who I am.

Got it.

You know? Cause it's like stemming from that in some way or another. And I was like, it's. It also depends on how deep the conversation gets. True. Yeah. Cause who am I? I'm at the source of it is love.

Well, we don't have to perseverate on that. Stick on that forever. But I think it lets people know a little bit about who you are, where you're from. Like you said you're a father. I think other students at the college can relate to being a parent. And where are you at in life right now? This is another big question.

So usually I'm pretty good, right? Well, it definitely fluctuates, but like right now I think I'm in chaos. I was just talking with my friend about it this morning and we were trying to, you know, find the root of that, Right.

Yep.

Because I haven't done laundry in two and a half weeks.

That's. That's okay. Yeah, I follow you.

Yeah. And that's just, like, one aspect, like the van, the inside of my van, that's also communicating, like, something's going on.

I'm just picturing, with two kids, I'm picturing Cheerios and, like, bags. What is kind of messing there.

It's a little bit of a mess right now, and I don't like it. But, like, I was talking with my friend, like, trying to find, like, what is the root of. Yeah, like this. But where I'm at in life right now is I put a little bit of extra weight on my shoulders. You know, I just got promoted at work, and I also took on another job on the weekends.

Okay.

And then I was like, well, I'm gonna try to take three classes this semester. Between that and the kids and, like, everything. Yeah. It's a little bit extra weight.

Yeah.

And I can feel it right now. Yeah. So I need to, like, take a breath. Really be a lot more intentional with each one of my movements right now to try to reverse the atrophy that's happening right now.

Yeah. Because it's not only the feeling of the extra weight on your shoulders. It's showing up in the way you're living your life right now. Things are getting a little messy in your personal life, basically, is what you say for sure.

And it's interesting, too, because I don't even know how to sometimes, like, what even to do. So, like, there's a lot of things to do, and I'm not even doing one thing. Yeah. You know, that makes sense.

Well, there is some research in this. Like, the more options in front of us that we have in terms of things we need to do, the more that paralysis sits in.

Analysis paralysis.

Well, a little bit of analysis paralysis, but it's also called the paradox of choice. And, in fact, when you present people with a lot of options in front of them, and you're like, pick anything. If there's one option, it's easy to pick. If there's two options, it's not so hard. One looks better than the other. You can kind of tell. But if you give, like, 15 things you need to do. I could clean my room. I could clean the van. I could do homework. I could prepare for this preface.

Yeah.

It's harder to try to figure out, like, priority, what should I do right now?

Yeah. And I feel like that's so interconnected with, like, mental health of like, what's the next thing I should do? And if I know what the next thing I should do, I feel way better.

Yeah.

You know?

Oh, yeah.

And just kind of like working down the list of like, yep, I'm doing this, doing this, or like, or, oh. So when I tell my kids, like, hey, get in the van, we're going grocery shopping, and they're in the middle of like a fortnight match.

Yep.

They're. They're mad. You know what I mean?

They're ruining our life. You're like, I'm trying to get stuff to feed you.

Yeah, that's exactly it.

You're ruining my life.

That's exactly their sentiments. But if I was like, Hey, 15 minutes, 20 minutes. Okay, we're gonna be going to the grocery store.

Yeah.

You know?

Yeah.

They might be like, but let me get one more kill, you know? Yeah, but they're gonna, like, they'll be like, they're gonna get in the van. Not so, like, begrudgingly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I feel like we're the same way. Like, like, if we were like, hey, Stephen, tomorrow we're gonna do this, do this, and then do this. So when we get there, there's not like as much resistance to it.

Yeah.

It's like, okay, I'm just gonna. I deem this as valuable to do, so I'm gonna do it.

Are you saying it's easier if you can kind of see the path in front of you and each step you need to take, you got the muscle and the willpower to push through each of those steps as they come. But organizing the steps is a little more difficult.

I don't, I don't. I don't know if organizing the steps is difficult. I think that it's difficult to, to do that consistently because it almost seems like, oh, no, like, I know what I'm doing, I'll just do it. Right. But to actually sit down and, like, give yourself expectations of what to expect for the next, like, you know, hour, day, week, hopefully you can get up to, like, start planning months and years, you know, at least some pieces of it.

Yeah. It's another concept we have called Begin with the end in mind, where you can kind of see the end. I know for myself, I'm back in school, I'm a student as well right now, and when I have a huge project in front of me to write, like, I have a 10 page paper I'm working on right now, which isn't massive, but it's chapter reviews on A book. And I'm just like, I just gotta do one chapter today, that's it. And I'll do another one tomorrow and I'll do another one the day after. That's just like bit by bit. And before you know it, I'll have written a priesis, which is a summary of a textbook, a 10 or 12 page paper. That'll be done event by the end of the week. But I'm only gonna do it bit by bit by bit. And I can see that it'll be done by Friday, Right now it's Monday. I can see it'll be done.

And you finally feel good about the momentum of it, right?

Well, exactly. And I was gonna say just getting little pieces done at a time, you get that win, you get that little dopamine. And now you're like, all right, I got a little energy to hit the next project and get a little win there.

See? And I think that's kind of like the point I was trying to get to is that when things are happening, life seems easy. Right. And I'm handling a lot.

Yeah.

But then when I'm doing nothing and I don't know how to start, life feels really difficult. You know what I mean? And it's almost like, well, when I was. When things were feeling good, I was doing a lot of things. Wake up, you know, do my habits, hit the gym, you know, get the kids to school. I feel like super dad. Right. And like, I'm crushing it, like, but I'm handling a lot. But then when that momentum's not there and you're doing nothing and it's hard to even just like make that first step. That's when life is difficult and you don't really have the. You don't really have the foreknowledge of like, this is the next step I'm going to take.

Yeah, right.

And it's almost constant. Like, am I even on the right staircase right now? Ooh, yeah.

That is difficult. A. I think you're talking about momentum. Once you get some momentum going in the kind of rhythm of life, a lot of people adapt to the rhythm of college life. Two jobs, full time schedule. It takes a minute to adapt to that. And once you kind of get yourself going, I think it's a little bit easier. But getting your momentum started and when you don't have certainty that this is the direction I want to go or even this is the best way to go about it, that's pretty paralyzing, right?

Yeah. I almost feel like I have friends that are in doctor programs or dentist programs or nursing programs. And, like, they just know. Like, they're like, oh, yeah, for the next four years, this is what. This is what I'm doing. Right. And it's a little stressful, but, like, even within that stress, there's, like. There's. There's some peace. Right. Because they just. They just know. They know that what. This is a staircase I'm on. These are the steps I'm taking. Yeah. And, like, I don't. I feel like my. My path is a little bit more subjective.

Yeah.

Than concrete.

Yeah.

Which is, like. It's okay.

But you can see how some certainty would make things a little bit easier.

Certainty would make things a lot better mentally.

Well, let's talk about that a little bit. I mean, you're in college. What are you in college for? What's the plan? How did you end up in college?

Yeah. So that's a very interesting question. I left church, and I met somebody who owned a barber. He came to our church, and he owned the barber shop right next door.

Got it.

And so the next day, I went and got my haircut. And, you know, barbershop, they're. They're in there talking trash. And, you know, like, it's. It's just. It's a fun time, but it's a mixture of, like, talking trash and then, like, philosophizing deep. You know what I mean? Like, it's a mixture.

Right? And it does. Yeah.

It's so good. And so the owner of the barbershop said he was going to go back to college and get his, like, business degree because he was like, I don't know how to run my own books here. And it's like, not. I'm making money, but I don't know how to manage it.

Yeah.

But. Right. And I was like, okay, that's cool. He's like, oh, I'm doing this thing called reconnect program, where, you know, pretty much I get to go to school for free. I was like, school for free?

It's like a scholarship.

Yeah. And I've never thought about myself in college really for that moment.

Okay.

But I was like, free college. Like, maybe I could. Maybe I could do that. And I had just. This is, like, year into my sobriety. Right. And year into even me thinking I can handle life on life's term, as they say in, like, in a. I went home that night, and I was like, that's interesting. School for free. And I was like, I'm not gonna fill out those papers. I'd Never been the one to, like, you know, here's this cool idea. But I never. I never, like, followed through on it. So I was still identifying with this person who doesn't follow through. Right. I just sat down for, like, three hours and I did all the paperwork.

Wow.

Just right there. Cause I was like, no, I'm not going to be this person anymore who doesn't seize opportunities. So I just sat down and I did it. Two days later, this girl from LCC calls me, and she was like, hey, you know, all your stuff went through and, like, you're going to be starting in the summer, but you didn't pick a major. This is how far removed from my mind being a student was the question. And I know you're going to laugh here. I was like, what's a major?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I had no idea, bro.

Isn't that a rank in the army?

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so she. I was like, can you just list off a few? And she must have been in the Cs.

Okay.

She said something. Child development, communication, something else with the sea. And then I was like, go back,

go back, go back. Communication.

That sounds pretty cool. Yeah, let's try that.

Yeah.

And I just, you know, I just rolled with it, and I really haven't gave it too much thought since I've been in it. I was just like, okay, I'm here. I'm doing this. But, you know, it has been something you mentioned. Begin with the end in mind. That's one of the first books I read was, well, Think and Grow Rich and Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. Seven Highly. Seven Habits, Highly Effective People was such a transformational book for me because it made me think about, you know, what my identity was. Yeah. What are. What are the roles I play? What are the roles? What do I want those roles to become? And, like, how can I not just work hard, but actually strategize to become what I want to be? And that doesn't mean just like having money. The one of the questions they ask you in the book is like, okay, imagine you're at your funeral and your brother's coming up to speak about you. Like, what do you want him to say?

Nice. Yeah.

You know, and I. Whoa. Like, yeah. And so it has. You break down your. Your. Your future into these different components. You know, what. What do you want to mean to your family? What do you want to mean to your. Your. Your professional life and to your community at large or whatever.

Yeah.

And so while I was starting school, I was still, like, reading Books. I heard this quote. It said, don't let your school get in the way of your education.

Ooh.

And since I've been in school, that's.

So say more about that. What does that mean? So I think I get it, but just for.

Yeah. I mean, I feel like there is this. This programming that takes place in college, right?

Yep.

And so, like, hey, you. You have to follow this exact routine of curriculum and to have, like, this. Everybody that graduates is going to have these ideas in their heads or they're going to have followed this logic. Yeah, Right. But, like, education is more of, like, that's knowledge. Right. School is knowledge. Right. But education, I think what that quote means is, like, wisdom and understanding. You know, you have those things, then you really know how to operate in the malleable space of reality. That is like, you know, how do I actually exist in this place and become symbiotic with the people around me? Right. So I've learned more from books, like, just my own reading than I have in college.

Yeah.

You know, and that's just. I mean, this just is what it is. But.

Yeah. I think a lot of people get hung up on the frustration of the conformity of a curriculum. I have to go to this class and do this assignment, and these aren't even in my major, but I have to get a humanities. I have to get a science. I have to do math. Da, da da, da, da, da. And it's like, yeah, don't let school be the enemy of an education.

Yeah, Right.

It is not. It is a system within which you can become educated.

Right.

But it's a lot of. All of that's on you and what you bring to it, as you say, and kind of your attitude as you come to it.

Yeah. And I feel like a lot of people have some sort of resentment to learning after coming out of school, you know, Like, I have friends who have, like, master's degrees, and I, like, talk to them about books, and they'll be like, I hate reading.

I don't ever want to read again.

Yeah, yeah. I'm like, you have a master's degree. I figured you had, like, a library and, like, a smoke pipe.

Yeah, yeah.

You know what I mean?

Like, you're just sitting around reading academic papers all the time. Yeah. I thought.

That's what I thought as soon as you graduated. You got a smoke pipe and a

robe and, like, a bookshelf. Yeah.

That's what comes with a master's degree. But they just have, like, a resentment towards learning and, like, reading, like, I don't want that. I never. I never want that. Like, I want to learn forever. I just want to learn forever.

This brings me to another concept I was thinking about. When I think about school, I think it has two main functions. One is translation. The other is transformation. Translation and transformation, I think is what I hope is happening in classrooms. Which translation. I think of it this way, like the academic at the front of the room, the professor, is communicating information to you from a bunch of scholars. Things we've learned. They're translating all the science and the data and everything we've learned up to this point, whether it's a biology class or a communication class. We're saying, here's what we've learned about communication. Let me help you understand that. So they're translating all the science and the art of that. When you get that information, you need to load that into your head. But you, for me, you need to become a different person as a result of that. You need to transform. It's one thing to understand communication better. It's another thing to be able to be a better communicator.

Yeah, right. Yeah.

I think that's what you're after, right? You want your education to be transformative. And when you say, I want to be a lifelong learner, what I hear is like, I want to be a lifelong. I want to be lifelong transforming.

Yeah, yeah. Lifelong transforming. That's a really.

That's growing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Constantly transforming, renewing the mind. So, like, talk about communication. So I've take three or four communication classes in a row.

Yeah.

And, you know, I've. I've. I've enjoyed the experience, but I've also, like, you can't. You can't look at these concepts of communication and just ponder them and become a better communicator. Right, Right. I emceed an event two weeks ago for my job. Right. Like, we had this community event. They asked me to be the emcee. I've never been an emcee before.

And, like, I'll do that.

I'll do it. Yeah. Just like, that's me. Like, I lean into the discomfort of things that I think will transform me. Right. Yeah. And that was such a transformational endeavor for me, especially, like, so I had all these notes written out, and I was, like, going off these notes, and then all of a sudden I was like, I can't do these notes anymore. It's making me, like, stiff. It's making me, like, rigid, and I'm not paying attention to what's going on. And as soon as I, like, made the decision, break away from the notes, I all of a sudden became more submerged into the experience and reflected that through my words. And I was way more a part of it. I was way more relevant, and it was. So that was, like, the real education. It's like, I was learning in that moment.

Yeah.

Right. And that's, like, a. A part of me that'll never. And now I have the. The confidence that I have the competence to, you know, show up without notes and just understand the event and be able to adapt to it and provide what's needed, you know, verbally, to the experience. Yeah. And, like, that was real education for me. I wouldn't have been able to do that in, like, classroom.

Yeah.

Or, I mean, some. Maybe some classes, like. I mean, you. You just spoke like, you know, hopefully, you know, some classes are transformational and not just translational. Right, right.

Yeah. I think we need to give students the opportunity to show that they've learned the material. I really do. I think we should give tests and quizzes and be like, show me that you've learned the data set that we're trying to hand on to you. But I think hopefully classes give students opportunity to show their transformation, which, for me, and I was terrified of doing this stuff in school, it was like, go up and give a speech in front of your class about, hey, I learned something about positive psychology. I'm gonna tell you what that is for the next five or 10 minutes, or I'm gonna work in a small group, and we're gonna have to come up with a project and give it to the professor, or we're gonna have to give it to show it to the class, that creative side, which is kind of what you're describing as emceeing. You did all this preparation, I'm sure, and all these notes, and then by the time you were done with all that, you were like, I'm good. I'm ready. I've already changed as a result of having done that. Now I can show up and be creative and in the moment. Yeah. And be Steven.

Yeah.

And not Steven's notes.

Exactly. Yeah. And being creative from what I've learned already.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. Something about creation that, like, just, like, creating, first of all, like, makes time disappear.

Yeah.

You know? And, like, second of all, it's so interesting because I deem myself as having a bad memory. Right.

Okay.

But I can remember over, like, 15, 16,000 words of my poetry in my songs.

Wow.

Right. And it's like, what is that?

You don't have a bad memory. No, but for most things. Yeah. I hear what you say.

What is this? Like, Okay, I enter into this. This is what I'm trying to say. Like, I enter into this place that seems like outside of reality. Yeah.

Outside of time.

Yeah, Outside of time. And this is the creative process. Right. The zone, the flow state.

Flow state.

You know, and then whatever my brain is producing.

Yeah.

You know, or pulling out from within, I don't forget those things. Yeah. You know, and that's learned because it wasn't in my brain prior. So here I like. Okay, let's say I do a study session. Same amount of time. Hour, Right? Yep. I could do this study session, and if I take a quiz right afterwards, I could probably, like, answer the quiz, you know, which I try to do so that I don't. I don't do it later.

So that's called cramming.

It works a little bit for the short term.

It does.

Yeah. But, you know, you asked me these things, like, a week later. It's like, I'm not, you know, I didn't enter into it in this same way. But then I go into, like, I play a beat and I write for, you know, 20, 25 minutes or 30 minutes to an hour.

Yeah.

I will never forget those lyrics.

Yeah.

Ever. It's now, like, ingrained into my brain. Yeah. What is that?

That is something to investigate. And I'm thinking, as you're saying that, I'm thinking, like, you have this skill set in one area of your life, writing music and being able to recall that and perform that which I think you've performed your spoken word and your music before. And you can do it. You can recall and do it. And so the other side of this is, as a student, can you recall and perform when needed in that domain, too? And, like, how do we cross that bridge? You know, how do you get into a flow state as a student? And I think it gets easier the further we go in college. Right. I went through a master's degree, obviously, in counseling. Loved it. The further I got into my program, the more I came, you know, in love with the material I was learning. So I learned it much easier, and I was excited about learning it. And I would read stuff that wasn't required. You know, I was at that stage.

I want to be there.

You're going to get there. Yeah.

Yeah.

But, like, in the beginning, I'm like, man, I just don't care about this subject very much. It's hard for me to care enough to learn it.

Yeah.

So but at the end, what I convinced myself was, I care enough because I got to get that degree. I got to graduate so I can get to the next thing and get to the next thing. So sometimes school is a little bit of a means to an end, and you apply all your skills so you can make it there.

Yeah. Yeah. That's what it feels like right now.

So what, we got a few minutes left. What are your tips for mental health? Like, maintaining balance. You've already come on and very vulnerably shared, like, dude, I'm a recovery coach. I help people kind of get their lives afloat.

Yeah.

And I'm not really. I'm, like, bailing water out of my own ship. Right. Doesn't make sense to me as a counselor. Trust me. We don't have our stuff squared away, even though we got books on how to square everything away.

Yeah.

And we got a head full of it. But what are some things, like, tips you could recommend to students even, or just anybody listening? Like, yeah, this is how you start.

Such a good question. And that's been a con. That's, like, my education, Right. Like, that's the real education. Like, how can I be okay in my head?

Yeah.

Right. Like, no education matters as much as that. You know, if you can figure out how to be okay in your head, you won already. You know what I mean? Like, you don't need much, you know? So one thing is focus. I feel like focus. And what I mean by that is we're constantly being pulled back and forth Right. Between our phones, between. There's just so much. Right. The TVs, the radio, everything is pulling our attention. And so I don't really know exactly what that's doing, but it's not making us okay in our head. And so. And it's kind of like what we were talking about earlier. Like, what's the next step I take? Right. Or like, oh, I know the next step I'm taking. It's this. And, like, you're not able to have the awareness in your head if you can't focus. Right. So for me, journaling is huge. Yeah, huge. And not just journaling. Like, this is what I did today. Right. It's intentional creation of a certain type of mindset. Yeah. Gratitude usually. Right.

Yeah.

It was like, I start off my journals, I'd be like, hi, friend. Thank you for taking the time to talk with me. You know, and I've created a friendship with myself, a relationship with myself, and doing that consistently. Five minutes. Yeah, five to seven minutes. You know, just Just write about, like, what you like about life. Yeah. Write about a problem and how you are confident that you're going to solve it, even if you don't have the information now. You will find it. You know, I think that creates, like, faith, you know, which is another, like, huge pillar is like being able to not just think that we're on a floating rock of meaninglessness, you know, because that's not going to end into a good place mentally. Yeah. So being able to establish some faith about reality. Just being good.

Yeah.

You know, which it can't.

And life can be good.

Yeah. Life can be good because you can't. I don't think that you can have meaninglessness and deem reality as good. I don't think that you can have those two mindsets. So trying to steer away from meaninglessness. Find some. Some concrete meaning.

Yeah.

So I think another bedrock for me is exercise. Yeah. Like getting the heart pumping, you know, and trying to do that early in the morning. Getting that out the way so that you can experience. I call it the other side of the veil. So, like, I'll be like, man, why do I feel like, you know, just crap right now?

Yeah.

And then I exercise, and it's like the veil's lifted and all of a sudden everything's bright and I'm like, well, what? It didn't feel like this a minute ago. So I really think being able to be aware of your thoughts and having. Because then you can have a relationship with yourself and you can be conscious of the things that are being said in your head. Because I still say, like, even though I have. Like, I'm a friend of mine.

Yep.

Like, I'm my friend.

You're a friend of yourself. Yeah.

I still say things to myself that are like, I wish I wouldn't have said that. Yeah. But because I'm aware. Yeah. I can be like, hey, man, like, don't talk to me like that.

Yeah. We have this. Well, so, so cool. You're recommending two things, and we'll wrap the show up here, which is get into your head a little bit further. Intentionally. With gratitude. Right. Spend some time thinking through your thoughts. Get some objectivity around your thoughts. See what you're thinking. Write it out on paper. Get some space and some distance so you can look at it. And then the other thing is, get out of your head. Get into your body.

Yeah.

Start moving your body around and your emotional state and your cognitive state will change if you change your physical state. Because you're a mind body.

Yeah.

You're not one or the other. You're not switching back and forth. You're both as best as we understand it, you're a mind body. So I love this, you know, advice around what we call kind of existential ideas like what am I doing with my life? Where am I going? How do I see myself? What's meaningful to me? And I would just encourage people who are listening. Hey, if you're a currently enrolled student at LCC and you want to learn more about this identity and purpose or how to manage your emotions and feelings and stuff like that, you can come to the LCC Counseling Center. We have free licensed professional counselors there. You can learn more at LCC Edu Counseling and I invite you to look into that and to pursue your own mental health as well as you can. I'd like to thank you, Stephen, for coming on the show today.

Thank you appreciate it. Have a great day, man

You too, brother.