1, 2, 3.

Welcome to the Rap Report with your host, Andrew Rapaport, where we provide biblical interpretation and application.

This is a ministry of striving for eternity in the Christian podcast community.

For more content or to request a.

Speaker for your church, go to strivingforeternity.org.

Well, welcome to another edition of the Rap Report.

I'm your host, Andrew Rapaport, the executive director of Striving for Eternity and the Christian podcast community of which this podcast is a proud member.

We are here to give you biblical interpretations and applications for the Christian life.

And I am joined by my friend of one year, Caleb Gordon.

How you doing, Pastor?

I'm wonderful, my friend.

Happy anniversary.

You reached out to me and said, hey, it's the one year anniversary since we, we met.

And I was like, you know, it's.

Which meant it was a one year anniversary since we recorded together.

I said, well, why don't I have you on my podcast?

I think I was on yours last time and then replayed it on mine.

So this time I'm on.

You're on my podcast.

We'll see if he.

Come on, we'll see if he replays it on his.

Can do it.

It cracked me up because we.

It.

It.

You know, social media gives you.

Hey, here's your memories.

And okay, that was.

I mean, we met officially at Fight Laugh Feast last year in Fort Worth, Texas, and you were incognito because you had a beard and I did not recognize you and you were at my table for 20 minutes.

I was on podcast row and I was just standing there.

You came to my table and just visited.

Moving like just all home week.

And, and I would just like.

He just introduced himself as Andrew and I was like, okay, cool.

This is Andrew.

It's fantastic.

I'm really glad to meet you, Andrew.

Thanks for coming by my table.

And then Greg walks by and goes, what's Greg Moore from Walking Dead Man Walking walks by.

He's like, what's up, Rap Report?

And I was like, wait a second.

My brain, like, connected.

Like the two hemispheres connected.

It was like, Andrew, wrap up.

Wait a second, I know this guy.

I've watched your stuff online.

And then as soon as I started looking at you again through that lens, I was like, oh, well, he's okay.

Holy cow, he's standing at my table.

And he.

And I said, wait, you're Andrew Rapaport?

And you said, yeah, most people get over pretty quick.

Well, hey, it's, it's good having you on this way.

You know, my, my audience can get to know a little bit about you.

First off, you are a pastor.

So let's talk about the church you're pastoring, which, by the way, folks, you know, I travel one hour to church because I, I'm in a good church.

I moved and so.

But I'm not going to leave the church.

That's good.

So I moved my bride and I travel one hour one way, at least two days a week.

This week will be three.

But we do that because that's what you do for a good church.

But you're the reverse.

You pastor a church that's an hour away.

So let's talk about your church first and then why you're in Bartlettsville because you, you have some history there.

Bartlesville.

Everybody calls it Bartletsville because that's, that's phonetically how it's spelled.

So Bartlesville.

But it's fine.

I don'.

Care.

He says he doesn't care, but notice he corrected me how fast he, he corrected me as fast as a Democrat complains about Trump.

Never mind.

I'm gonna be quiet.

Okay.

So my church, I've been pastoring six years.

October is our six year anniversary there.

We have had a blast there.

We, we love the people.

It was the wildest.

I, I used to just do a ton of itinerant speaking, pulpit filling things of that nature.

It's, I mean, I was at my dad's church.

That was our home churches of my, My dad pastored at Trinity Baptist church for almost 35 years.

He went to Gloria in 2021.

But that's where our home church was.

So we just, that's where we landed.

That's where we, we spent time ministering there and helping there.

But I was often traveling and speaking in different circuits in different places, different churches.

And there was a lady who played piano at my dad's church and she said, I guess.

And she grew up in the church that I'm now pastoring.

And so there was a group of people that were.

As if you're not a Baptist.

It's called the search committee.

And there was a search committee that was.

And a pulpit fill committee.

If you're a Baptist, you got to have at least 15 committee committees.

And then you need the committees to decide which committees you should have.

Yes, yes.

So there's, we're, we're setting up all, there's all these committees and there's a lady on one of the committees for the pulpit supply.

And Marjorie gave my name to Pam.

And Pam called me one summer afternoon was like, hey, you don't know me, but we're.

I'm part of the pulpit fill committee at my church here at First Baptist Church in Cedarville, Kansas.

And we would love it if you'd come fill our pulpit for a couple Sundays in July.

We need some pulpits.

Pulpit supply.

I said, let me look at my calendar, make sure.

Sure enough, I had the time.

So I said, sure, I'll come.

Those two Sundays I preach, I get off of the stage, I come out, and it's an.

I mean, you've been there, you've preached in the church.

So, you know, I came off the platform and there was this lady, and she just said, the Lord's impressed on.

The Lord is a press impressed upon me.

Which I'm immediately going.

Anytime I hear somebody say God told me, or the Lord impressed upon me, I'm immediately like, yeah, I don't know about that.

That's probably not gonna.

That's probably not true.

But she said, the Lord impressed upon me.

I think you're gonna be our pastor.

And I was like, yeah, I don't think so.

I'm in love.

I love what I'm doing.

It's gonna be.

I enjoy doing what I'm doing.

I'm in a healthy church environment.

I'm not interested in.

In.

I don't know, you people.

And she was like, well, when she goes, just the old.

Old Baptist lady, she's like, well, we'll see about that.

And I just was like, that's.

That's so funny.

And I came back and preached on and off there for a few months.

Actually, it was close to a year.

They went without a pastor for a year.

And so I was off and on for a year filling the pulpit.

And I was.

I was working.

At the time, I was working in the oil field world.

I was doing pipeline oil.

Gosh.

I just went.

Pig tracking is what it's called.

I know.

This is pig.

I'm tracking pig.

Pig.

And it's like a.

It's an electronic device that goes through the oil pipes that deliver oil, and it checks the integrity of the walls and make sure there's no cracks.

And all I had to do was sit and wait for it to go by and log it in a spreadsheet.

Made insane money, like, dumb money.

But I was never home.

Okay.

So.

So I just.

And so I was home one weekend, and they asked me to preach.

And I was like, okay.

And.

They.

Then they called after that, that next week.

They said, would you just come visit with us?

We.

We want to Visit with you about being our pastor.

Just come up and visit with us.

You've been doing this almost a year.

Just come visit with us, please.

Okay.

And I was like, okay, cool.

All right, fine.

We'll come up.

So Jamie and I drove up there, and it was in September of 19 and end of September 19th.

Almost.

Almost October.

End of September.

So before.

Before things.

Before people really lost their minds.

This is before COVID And we thought.

People were insane back then, but we didn't really realize.

We didn't realize how common sense they were back then.

Yeah.

Yeah.

100.

So we go up there.

Jamie and I go up there, and I'm thinking, it's just going to be the search committee, right?

They're going to just do a Q A with us and ask us all the things.

And I was like, okay, I'll kill this in Q A. I'm.

I'm reformed.

They're not going to like me.

You know, all the things, right?

So I'm thinking I can just kill this in.

In the.

In the Q A. I walk in.

I mean, the outside of the church, there's cars everywhere.

And I was like, oh, this isn't just the search committee.

I mean, these.

They had a dinner.

Baptist.

They had a dinner, and the fellowship hall was slammed with people.

It was a three hour, no holds barred Q A of everybody in the church.

And I was like, nice, awesome.

And we just let it.

I mean, every.

And I just told him.

I was like, nothing's off the table.

What do you want to talk about?

Name it.

Clint, let's go.

Just.

Let's go.

How do you want to go?

And so we get done.

And my wife.

This.

That is not my wife's wheelhouse.

She is the behind the scenes, quiet.

Doesn't want the.

Doesn't want the stage, doesn't want the platform.

She doesn't want anything.

She's like, I don't like this, Caleb.

This is your wheelhouse.

You're the guy in front.

I don't like.

She's.

I was like, you're with me, baby.

She's like, I know, I know, but I'm just telling you, I don't like it.

So three hours of just asking every question, and because I've been preaching there for almost a year, they knew about.

They knew.

They knew you.

You knew them a bit.

Yeah.

It wasn't me just walking in, just cold turkey, just saying, hey, I'm reformed.

Here's, you know, all the things, right?

I.

And at that time, what's interesting, I wasn't I wasn't postmail by the.

I was still a dispensationalist.

Yeah, so you went for you, you were good when you got there and you lost it.

Yeah, sure.

So I had all the things.

Which is funny because there's a lot of folks that are in that church that are actually postmo or Amel.

There's, in that camp, there's a lot of post and all male folks that are already there, which I did not know that going in.

And so I was walking into some hostile territory.

And they did.

But they were very gracious, they were very kind.

But so we, we got through with the Q A and I was just thinking they just, I mean they hugged us and said thank you and that was it.

There was no, hey, we're going to get back with you, we're gonna think.

About it, we're gonna pray about it.

We'Re gonna, we're gonna vote, we're gonna something.

It was just everybody gave us hugs, said thanks for coming up.

And I was drove home.

I was like, okay, maybe, maybe we're not gonna, okay, cool, we'll just keep doing what we're doing.

Because I'm thinking in my head, I'm keep doing what I'm doing anyways.

If I don't, if I don't get this, I'm going to continue doing what I have been doing for the last 12 years.

And so I'll just, I'll just keep plugging along, we'll make it work.

And we told, basically we told him what we could do, what we couldn't do.

At the time, my parents health was really, really bad.

And so I was taking care of my parents and my brother and I were like, between the two of us, we were tag teaming, taking care of my, my dad and his health.

And so I was like, man, I'm not moving an hour away from my dad at this point in his life.

Just, I'm just not going to do it because if something happens I, I'm literally five minutes from his house.

So.

And then my, our kids were all just neck deep in school stuff and, and they had, I mean, just neck deep in all kinds of stuff.

So I was like, we're not uprooting people, especially if they're.

One of them was a junior, one was a sophomore, one was a freshman and you got.

No, our youngest at the time.

So he, I just was like, we're not going to do this.

So I told him what we could do, what we couldn't do, what we're willing to do.

Is like, man, I'm willing to be here at least two to three times a week.

You know, Sundays, Wednesdays, funerals, weddings, you name it.

We can special events, whatever.

And I.

We went home.

Well, that next Tuesday after.

So that was like a Thursday night.

So the.

There's a Thursday night.

So no Saturday.

That Saturday I get a text message that just said, hey, we're voting on you Sunday.

I thought you were going to say.

They said they already voted.

Well, no, they.

If they waited till Sunday to do.

They had a special business meeting.

Okay.

On Sunday.

And they.

And I had already made up in my mind, if it's not 100%, I'm not going because I'm not going to a fight.

I'm just not going.

And I didn't tell them that because I never want to, like, play my hands ahead of time so that there's, you know, finagling or whatever.

I just was like, in my mind, if it's not 100%, yes, I'm just.

I'm not going.

Like, I just don't want to go.

So.

And I didn't tell them that.

Nothing.

So we are at church.

We're going to church.

Afterwards, we went.

Ate at Senior Salsa's, our favorite Mexican restaurant here in Bartlesville.

And I get a text message and it just says, 100.

Yes.

When can you start?

And I picked my phone up and I looked at Jamie and I was like, handed it to her, and I was like, crud.

I guess we're going, kid.

And we've been there six years.

We haven't looked back, and it's been fantastic.

Well, I've had a blast.

And you.

You've been there through Covid and all that.

That was wild.

I mean, yeah, you were just.

You're.

I mean, you're the new pastor having to go through Covid and.

And all that.

We.

We went remote for a month.

And I, you know, I'm.

And I'm watching guys like John MacArthur, and I'm watching all these guys that are doing all these different things.

And I. I'm like, I'm not going to.

Like, this is nuts.

I'm looking at the riots and looking all this stuff.

I'm like, wait a second, I can go to Walmart, I can go to Home Depot, I can go to Lowe's, but we can't go to church.

And I just said, we're opening back up.

Like, we were shut down for a month remote.

We had remote services.

And I just said, what we'll do is we'll we'll do Facebook Live.

I'm here, doors are open, you can come.

So they, people started slowly showing back up.

And then fast forward, people are like, oh, we love having Facebook Live.

We can watch you in our pajamas.

And I was like, well, you shouldn't have told me that.

Now we're not doing that.

Yeah, we haven't done Facebook Live since then.

Well, I did.

We did it.

We do it for like funerals and people like, are watching from Houston or whatever.

So we do Facebook Live for, for funerals, but we, we record the sermons and then we'll post them after the service.

So we shut down all our Facebook Live stuff.

Man.

We were running 8, 900 people watching on Sundays and I was like, nope, we're killing it.

Like, because people are, that are local.

They're sitting on the couch or laying in bed in their pajamas, not going to church.

It's like, I'm not going to be that.

I'm not going to be the pastor that allows you to have the excuse to, to stay home and not come.

Be a part of the fellowship of the saints.

And that's something that speaks to your character.

Because there's a lot of guys, if they're seeing 900 people watching, they start saying, hey, I'm getting an audience.

I'm going to placate to them.

And, and I've seen guys who, they're really not preaching to their church.

There's the preaching for who's watching online.

And that starts to, you start to lose where the focus is.

If you're shepherding people, shepherd those people.

I love my people.

Like I, I genuinely love my people.

And they are just, they're salty earth farmers and ranchers and, and just blue collar guys, nurses and teachers.

And we got, we got a bunch of teachers in there.

And I just, man, I, I love like our, our Wednesday night.

We have Wednesday night awana programs for our kids.

There's 125 kids in the school system in that town.

Between 60 and 80 kids come every Wednesday night.

Like, it.

Look, I, I want to, I want to help sew into and love the people in front of me.

I've learned really quickly through having this podcast, my podcast and doing online things people will praise you and make.

If you get built up and get excited about people's praise online when they hate you, it'll kill you.

Yeah.

And so I'm like, well, or, or.

You just got to learn to ignore it.

I don't read the comments.

I don't read comments.

So comments are stupid.

People May be thinking, well, why don't you pick up and move closer to church?

I mean, you're driving an hour one way to church several times a week.

You, you got some history in Bartlesville.

Did I say it right this time?

So we moved here in 86.

Um, we have some really deep seat, deep seated connections here and, and things that we're, we do ministry stuff here that we've been doing for decades.

And so we're still, we have, we are rooted in Bartlesville just because we've, we've been here forever and we know all the people.

My wife actually works for.

She's a front office manager for one of the real estate agents here in town for Keller Williams.

My son goes to school at Wesley Christian School.

Still.

I might have three.

I have four kids total.

My.

Our three oldest are moved out.

Two of them are married.

I'm fixing to be a grandpa, by the way.

Can't wait.

That's gonna be awesome.

So.

It is.

Trust me, it's the best.

I'm just saying.

I can't wait.

Just saying.

But you get to meet Gabe and Kenzie.

They were at the conference last year.

But you're.

I mean, your, your dad has some history there, right?

He was, He's.

I mean, you're very well known because of your dad.

Somewhat, but sure.

You know, also because you're, you're very active in your community.

I'm for people listening.

You know, when Caleb and I went around his town, like we're going into shops, everyone knows who he is.

Everyone knows him.

If you listen to his podcast, he's interviewing the guy that runs the Chick Fil A there.

He.

I mean, it's, it's.

There's a lot of local people that, that know him well.

And, and so you had the roots there.

No.

You know, but why, why didn't you pick up and move to be closer to the church?

I mean, some, some would say, oh, but you could, you could do more if you're by the church.

You could, you could minister more there.

Sure.

And I, and this we had.

I had to reevaluate a lot of things there because what works here ministry wise doesn't work ministry wise in Cedarville.

Like, they're just.

It's a different mindset up there.

And that's not to knock them.

That's just who they are.

And I had to, I had to learn because I got frustrated in the beginning because that was trying to implement and do things that I've always done here.

And they're like why are we doing that?

I was like, it was like, hey, we should go do a visitation night where we go knock on people's doors and talk to, talk to them about Jesus.

And they're like, why would you do that?

I was like, well, I mean, we want to grow the church.

We want to get to know the community.

They're like, no, no, no, no.

People, people are not interested in that.

If you show up, that's actually going to give our church a bad name.

People are not interested in hearing from anybody when they're home.

They're.

Because they're.

Everybody has to drive at, you know, 45 minutes to an hour to go find work for the most part.

And so when they come home, they're like, I'm not interested in visiting.

I'm not interested in being.

I'm done.

And so I just had to just.

That was just how the mentality was at the town.

And it's not.

I mean, we've been doing it six years.

I put a lot of miles on, on my cars because we, I mean, we're up there two and three and four times a week.

Yeah.

And so we're there a lot.

I mean that's not a, like we, I, I just did a funeral for a sweet, sweet, sweet member of our church who's been there since she was a little kid and, and just was a, she helped when the, the kids Sunday school classes, help with the music for the kids choir and did all these different things.

Single lady that just poured into kids.

She just, she loved on the babies and the kids and with just the sweet, sweet, sweet woman.

And I was back and forth that week, multiple times, meeting with the family, having dinner, fellowshipping, doing all the things.

It just, you know, for me it's just, it's just an, it's 45 minute drive.

So it's not.

There's a lot of people that live in bigger cities, Dallas or New York or Jersey or whatever.

They're driving at least 45 minutes to get to church.

And then.

So.

And that's only two miles away.

Yeah, you probably walk it faster than driving, but.

Yeah, that's so, I mean we're, our mindset is, is we can still do ministry because we're still doing it.

I mean, we're, we're doing, I mean, I was at a bonfire with a bunch of kids last night.

We were hanging out with a ton of students last night at a bonfire fellowship.

And after, after the bonfire.

Right, you got into a nice cold plunge, correct?

No, no, but I'm you got a cold plunge.

I know that.

I do have a cold plunge.

That's all your fault.

I have it.

I need to get.

I need to get it out.

I have not got it out during the summer because I just.

I feel like that's.

That's not the real cold plunge because it's 112 here in.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, see, you got it.

Yeah, you don't.

The one I got you doesn't have a chiller, so you actually have to throw ice in.

But in the winter, you know, it's fine.

Just.

Oh, it's great.

We went to that one time your sons had to break it up with a shovel because the ice was, like, seven inches.

Yeah, we had.

We had you.

There was my.

Two of my sons and one of his buddies, and they had an I.

They had like a shovel and a couple of picks, and they were just beating that thing into it because, I mean, the ice was.

It was literally 6 or 7 inches thick.

I mean, it was because it got so stinking cold, like, right before you all got here.

That's the weird thing about Oklahoma.

March is usually start.

They start to warm up, but there's usually, like two weeks where it goes dumb and just freezes up.

And.

Absolutely.

It is bananas when it comes to cold weather in March.

You're either.

It's either springtime and beautiful or 30 below.

Like, the coldest I've ever seen.

It was like 28 below zero, and we had, like, 17 inches of snow.

So that.

I mean, that's.

I mean, it shuts the whole town down because we're not used to that.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So you.

You're pastoring, but let's.

Let's talk.

I mean, I know there's some things we want to talk about, but I should.

We should mention the podcast.

Caleb Gordon podcast.

It's.

It's obviously, you're very creative on the names.

You're the reason we.

You are the reason I changed the name.

It used to be called the Northfield Podcast, and people always thought it was like a big, deep, spiritual meaning.

What's it mean by the North Field?

Does that mean, like, heaven, or.

What does it mean?

It's like.

No.

My wife, when we were dating, she lived in an apartment complex called the Northfield Duplexes.

And I just thought that would be a cool name for something one day.

And I called it the Northfield Podcast after my wife's duplexes she used to live in.

Has a lot of meaning.

It tells you what it's about.

You were like, you're the one that's like, it's confusing.

You just need to have your.

You already have a website.

Why don't you just call it the Caleb Gordon Show?

You were calling it the corporate Caleb Gordon show on, you know, on a network that was only your show with a Northfield name.

Yeah, yeah, it was.

It was a whole complex now.

I was.

I was making it bigger than something in my mind.

I thought it was bigger than what it was.

And it just like, that's.

That was dumb.

And you were like, you should just call it the Caleb Gordon Podcast.

I was like, you ever seen Social Network with the story of Facebook where the guy sits down with Mark Zuckerberg and he looks at him and goes.

Because he called it the Facebook.

And he's like, drop the.

The.

Just make it Facebook.

And you were like, you should just call it the Caleb Gordon Podcast.

And I was like, okay, done.

Yeah, done.

So you're.

You are.

Let's talk about some of the ministry that you do, because I think it'd be.

It'd be good for people to see you are one of the more creative people that I know when it comes to always looking for new ways to do ministry.

And what I do hope that folks would get out of this is like, oh, hey, that's an idea I can do.

That's.

You know.

You know, I've watched you as even you go and get coffee.

The.

The.

They know who you are.

You're going.

You.

You like to, it seems, go to regular places where you get to know people.

You can keep sharing with them, dropping bits of.

Of gospel, dropping bits of scripture, and just furthering conversations, it seem.

Because, like, some of the places we went, the people who knew who you were, you were just.

It was like you were just continuing conversations.

But then you're constantly using your backyard for fellowships.

You're.

So let's talk about some of the ministry you do.

What is your.

What's your out.

Your.

Your view of how to do ministry?

What is it that kind of.

So not just ideas of ministry you do, but what motivates you to do it?

So I literally had a meeting.

I met with multiple pastors and business leaders at a local cigar lounge Tuesday night.

And that was one of the questions I got asked.

And I just said, there's no such thing as a secular sacred divide.

I looked at the guys at this deal, and I said, for me, there's no such thing as a secular sacred divide.

Everything is sacred.

Everything I do, whether it's.

And I heard this growing up from my dad, from different people that he was connected with is that like everything's holy, everything's worship.

Brushing your teeth is worship.

Like everything is worship.

So everything you do has an opportunity to advance the kingdom of Christ.

And so I've always had the mindset of I want to share Christ with people that I interact with on whatever level that happens to be.

And so I, I go to like when I go to Walmart.

And this is one of the things I always tell people.

Christians should never say I'm bored because that's dumb.

People that are bored in the Christian faith aren't doing anything because there's so much work to be done.

There's so many opportunities to share the gospel of Christ with.

People go to Walmart, they have a name badge, they have their name badge, they're checking you out instead of just staring at your phone, ask questions, hey Andrew, how can I pray for you?

And they'll immediately people go, what?

What?

Like I, so this, I'll tell you a wild story.

So there's the Walmart greeter, his name's Virgil.

Virgil.

I see him every Sunday morning.

I go in to go pick up donuts for our Sunday school class.

So I've got, I get a stack of donuts for our Sunday school class and I take them to our, to church every Sunday.

And every Sunday Virgil will be like, oh, you got your donuts, man.

Where are you going with those donuts?

What do you, I see you every Sunday with all those donuts.

What are you doing with those donuts?

I was like, oh, take them to my church, man.

I got these, I got a class of older ladies in there, some older guys.

I got a Sunday school class of people, they'll, they'll full blown revolt if I don't have some sugar in there.

So I gotta have, I gotta have something.

So he's doing that, he's chuckling and so the next Sunday he's like, oh, you got your donuts for all your people in your Sunday school class.

I sure do.

And then we talk a little bit more.

This goes on for months.

Every Sunday I tell them a little bit more.

Tell me where you pastor.

What, tell me what kind of church is it?

What are you.

Because he's asking these questions.

I'll take a couple minutes, two, three minutes just to just give him information.

Fast forward six months and it's a Tuesday and I'm in Walmart grabbing something and I walk through Virgil's at the, he goes, Caleb, come here, come here, come here.

I gotta tell you something.

What do you got, Virgil?

He goes, just want to let you know, I won't be here on Sunday.

You won't see me.

I said, oh, you going on a trip?

He goes, nope, I'm going to church.

I've been thinking about the things you and I have been talking about, and I found a church that I think I'm.

I think will work.

I'm going to go check it out and see what it's all about.

You and I, you've given me a lot of things to think about in this, our conversations that we've had.

Yeah.

And I'm going to go to church on Sunday.

I was like, that's great, man.

I'm so excited.

That's awesome.

Tell me about it.

I'll see you next.

Next time I come in here, I want to hear about it.

I want to know about it.

Next time I saw him, I was like, hey, how was church?

Tell me how it went.

He goes, oh, that was great.

This is what happened.

This is what happened.

And he's rearranged his entire work schedule.

He got off work, so he's not working on Sundays anymore.

He stopped working, told his boss at Walmart, I'm done working on Sundays.

I'm going to church.

He rearranged his entire schedule to go.

And, and, and rather than have a day off outside of Sunday, he took Sunday off so he can go to church.

Good.

And so, like, that's just.

Those are the things that, like, I just.

I look for avenues to just talk to people like my waiter and waitress.

My waiter or waitress that I'm at a restaurant, and you.

You and I did this when you were here.

Just ask them questions, you know, hey, do you know how to get to heaven?

Just.

And they'll go, what.

What.

What do you mean?

Do you know how to get to heaven?

Well, no.

That's fantastic.

I do.

Let me tell you.

So we just.

That's great.

Like, no, no, I don't.

Okay, good.

I. I do.

Let me tell you.

Because I do.

And I know how to get there.

This is how it happens.

This is what you got to do.

And so.

So you.

You have these intentional conversations with people, and he never, never look at an oppor.

You know, as Rahm Emanuel used to say, never miss an opportunity.

Right.

I don't think he used it quite that well.

Not quite in that context yet.

No, no, no.

For folks who don't know Rahm Emanuel, he's a politician.

A bad politician.

Yeah.

Up in.

I think he's in.

I think he Was in Chicago.

Yeah, she was in Chicago.

Worked under Obama.

And his.

His quote, he was famous for was to never waste a crisis.

So, you know, if something goes wrong, it's like, no, how can we use that now?

See the.

Now the Democrats have gone beyond that now because they say, how do we create a crisis so that we don't waste it?

Let's shut down the government and then shut down.

But then they ended up wasting it because they got absolutely nothing out of it.

Yeah, he's the guy that's got, like, the face missing the finger like that.

These guys.

He's got ripped off.

And I watched a documentary of that guy.

He was a fascinating individual.

But.

Yeah, but that's the mindset I have, is never miss an opportunity to advance the gospel in regular conversations, regular interactions with people.

And I just.

I just.

That's how I do these things.

And it's never like, I'm.

I played the long game in this.

I'm thinking, okay, how can I.

What can I do to help?

Because I'm going to see these people.

I live in a town of roughly 40,000 people.

I'm gonna see the same folks on the regular.

Because these are the places I frequent.

So there's no such thing as a secular sacred divide.

Everything is sacred for me, whether it's walking in the coffee shop, whether it's going to Walmart, whether it's, you know, walking my dog, whatever that happens to me.

I mean, I had a. I helped organize the Charlie Kirk vigil that we had here in town.

And a month later, I'm walking on my.

My regular walk that I go on.

I go try to walk three or three and a half miles a day.

And I'm walking in this lady who comes up the trail.

She goes, are you Caleb Gordon?

I was like, maybe.

She was like, did you do the Charlie Kirk rally?

And I was like, well, yeah, I helped organize that.

She's like, it was such a great thing.

So I was.

We talked for a couple minutes, and so I'm always looking for avenues to talk to people about the things of Jesus, because I don't know if I'm going to die today.

Like, I might.

And if I.

If I.

If I die today, I want people to just at the end of this thing, okay.

Caleb did everything he could to share as much about Jesus as he could in every avenue, every space that.

That I can.

I mean, I went and spoke at a roofers convention in Indiana and talked about the gospel, talked about trusting Christ, talked about having having a worldview in your workspace that, that is going to honor the Lord and, and make the space better for, for people, work with integrity and things, all that kind of stuff.

And so I never want to miss an opportunity to share the hope of who Jesus is.

Because, man, if Jesus can save a wretch like Caleb Gordon, if he can, like, if.

Listen, I am a, I'm a shady, just as Paul said, chief of sinners.

I'd like to sit down with Paul and be like Paul, maybe, maybe you are the chief of sinners, but I'm nipping at your heels.

So if Jesus can save me, he can save anybody.

And I want to try to share as much as I can because it's like, I've never done drugs.

Andrew.

But when you get to sit with somebody and they, they surrender their life to Christ and you get to be in the part of that, like you're in the room with them and you get to hear them pray, you get to their hand, you get to pray with them.

It's like doing drugs.

It's like this high.

You're just like, this is awesome.

I love it.

I love seeing people come to life for Christ.

Like, it's, it's awesome.

So, yeah, yeah, no, I mean, but this is, this is what it takes is to have this mindset where you're always doing ministry.

So, but let me ask.

Some people might be thinking, but, but Pastor Caleb, if, if you have that attitude, if I'm going to go to the store, I mean, I'm going to the store, I gotta, I gotta get something.

I, I gotta get home, I gotta get.

Because there's so much we got to do.

Everyone's so busy.

No, it sounds like what you're suggesting is going to take a lot of time.

Nope.

And listen, I, sometimes I use the self checkout and I, and some I'm not, I don't do this consistently A hundred percent of the time.

I'm probably 85, 90 of the time do it.

But there's a time where I'm like, okay, crud, I gotta get in here.

Get this.

I go to the self checkout, bleep, bleep, and we're done.

But most of the time I try to search out the people.

And it's funny because my, you know, my wife will always go.

I don't go to Walmart with Caleb anymore because I know he's inevitably going to talk to somebody.

My wife is the same way.

My kids were like, oh, dad, we hated going places with you because I, I would just, I would Just start handing out tracks.

Yes, yes.

I try to keep a. I. I try to keep a small track on me somewhere.

Or I just ask some.

I just ask simple questions.

I don't ask questions that are super hard.

I ask simple questions that just simply say, how can I.

Where do you go to church?

Do you worship somewhere?

How do you get to heaven?

What do you think?

Who do you think Jesus is?

Just simple open ended questions.

Some of them are closed ended.

Just some of them are.

Yes.

No.

Hey, do you know how to get to heaven?

No.

Fantastic.

I do.

Here's how.

And just walk them through what that looks like.

That's a great line.

I'm gonna use that line.

That's a great line, dude.

The best one I ever did.

I got invited to speak at a fair in Kansas in July.

Whoever decided to have a fair in Kansas in July should be drug into the street and just beat to a pulp because it was like 112 degrees.

And I stopped at this coffee shop to, to get like a nice Ike and iced coffee or something to drink.

I can't remember what it was.

And the girl I watched in the Girlhood t shirt had John3.16 on it, like on the little thing, and her name was below it.

And I was like, oh, do you know what John3.16 says?

And she was honest enough to say, I have no idea.

I just work here.

Oh.

So the, the store had them wear the shirts?

Yeah.

So it was part of the.

It was there.

It was the store's shirt.

Okay.

The company, the coffee company was a Christian coffee company.

And it had John 3.

16 on the T shirt.

Oh, that's funny.

I just said, hey, do you know what John3.16 says?

And she goes, honestly, I. I don't know.

I just, I just make coffee here.

I was like, that's great.

I do.

And so we just.

I started asking, I was like, where do you go to church?

She goes, I don't go.

I was like, oh, man, you should really consider maybe looking for a church around here.

And I just, just talked to her about it.

I pulled the right comfort.

I said, do you consider yourself to be a good person?

She was like, yeah, I. Yeah, I guess I'm pretty good.

It's like, can I ask you a couple questions just to see if that's the truth?

Do you mind if I just quiz you on that?

She goes, sure, go for it.

I said, you ever told a lie?

Yeah.

You ever stole anything?

Yeah.

You ever use God's name as a cuss word?

You ever used his yeah, yeah.

Also, by your own admission, you're a liar, a thief, and a blasphemer.

Harp.

She goes, well, dang.

I was like, yeah, I know, right?

And that's crazy.

Me too.

But here's the good news.

And I walk her through what that looks like.

To trust Christ with, with, to save you from your sins, to forgive you of your sins.

And I just, it took me five minutes.

Like, it was a quick just.

And like, this is the key is repetition.

Like, you learn something.

You know, everybody's like, well, you're a preacher.

You should, of course, you should know that.

There's a lot of preachers.

There's a lot of preachers that don't even.

Like, if you're a pastor and you don't evangelize, but you expect your people to evangelize, you're dumb.

Like, that's just that, that's stupid.

You should be evangelizing if you're a preacher.

That's just, you know.

Well, that's not my gift.

Okay, well, stop being a preacher then.

It's like, that's nuts.

So I, I, you know.

Yeah, but it is, son.

Look, I, I remember this is years ago, but when I was first looking for a pastorate, I filled out an application.

They, they wanted your strengths and weaknesses.

And one of my weaknesses, I said, you know, I, I said, you know, I, I could, I don't really evangelize, but I could teach others to do it.

Which is really funny because I didn't think that I evangelized much, but that's what I'm known for.

Right?

But, but I didn't, I really didn't think I evangelized that much.

And, and I didn't think I was good at it.

But, I mean, I knew the biblical principles.

I could teach people to do it.

Sure.

And it was really funny because, you know, one day someone's like, they knew that I had said that.

And they were like, you know, you think you don't evangelize, but I don't know.

Many people evangelize more than you.

I'm like, you know, they're like, you do a really good job.

And I'm like, no, I fumble over my words.

I never say, like, I never seem to say what I think I want to say.

And at least I, I have this idea what I'm going to say, and it never seems to come out the same way.

Well, that's 100%.

I do the same thing.

I mean, I, I, I feel.

And people always say, oh, I'm gonna Mess it up.

I was like, a hundred percent, you're gonna mess up.

You're gonna, like, get nervous, and you're gonna say the wrong thing and you're gonna.

You're gonna flub it up somewhere.

But that doesn't mean you quit.

Yeah.

Like, could you imagine if we took that principle or that.

That mindset with our.

With a.

With a quote unquote secular job?

Well, I'm not very good at my job, so I'm just not going to do it anymore.

I don't give up just because I messed up.

One day or one time I get back in there and try to figure out how to make it work, work.

And then I do it again.

And then once you flex that muscle long enough and you do it long enough, it becomes this natural normal.

It doesn't feel pressed or pushed.

It feels like you're genuinely asking the questions because you're genuinely interested, you know?

Well, now you get into the heart of it.

Right.

Unfortunately, many Christians are really not that interested in other people.

They're interested in their own life.

What do we do when we people, we say, hey, how are you doing?

What's our standard response?

Better than I deserve.

Oh, wait, that's mine.

Or fine or good or whatever.

We really don't meant.

No, because if you go, hey, man, how are you doing?

Like, I. I did this one time, I went to a church event, and I'm walking down the aisle with my wife, and this older man shakes my hand.

And I said, man, how you doing?

And I just kept.

And in my mind, I'm thinking he's just gonna say, good, I'm gonna keep going.

So I keep going, and my wife, like, comes.

She goes, caleb, what the heck are you doing?

That guy was telling you.

You asked him how he was doing.

He was trying to tell you, and you just flat ignored him.

Yeah.

Like, you didn't even.

You didn't even hear him.

I was like, oh, my gosh.

And so I tried to go back and find him, but there was hundreds of people in the room, so I was.

I couldn't even find him.

I was like.

I felt so bad that I had just stiffed this older man who was telling me how his day was because I was an idiot.

And I asked the question.

Yeah, because it's.

It's.

It's almost like a hello, you know?

Yeah, it's.

You know, let's.

Let's talk one other thing, because you got.

You got an event coming up, a conference coming up, this, this march.

Let's discuss what you're trying to do.

This is your, your second conference.

You've done it once before.

Technically it's third.

This will be number third.

The first one was real low key.

I was, I was.

It was you, your wife, your kids.

Well, we actually had about 45 people showed up, but the tickets were five bucks.

And we did it at the second oldest historic theater in Oklahoma.

Oh, wow.

Right across the street from the Pioneer Woman in Pawhuska, Oklahoma.

Is it because the oldest, the oldest theater was used.

Was.

Was busy.

I don't know where that, I just know that that's their claim to fame is.

They're the second oldest in Oklahoma.

I don't know where the first oldest is.

I'm sure if I asked Google or Chat GPT it would tell me which one it is.

I don't, I don't know.

But.

So I don't know.

I honestly don't care.

But we, so we did that first year.

Had.

It was me, Pete Johnson from Hope Presbyterian.

Brett Baggett was there, Brandon Scalf was there, myself and my friend Nick Sterner.

Those, those were the speakers.

And that was our first year and we had about 45 people.

And I was like, okay, next time.

I was trying to do something bigger, different, and I added more speakers just because I was like, yeah, we need more.

And I was just like, and a one day deal.

And so we had all these speakers.

You were there, Gabe was there.

Every man.

We had a roster full of people.

I think we had nine speakers.

And by the end of the day I was like, I feel exhausted.

And I like, I got to be get up and preach tomorrow morning.

And you and I had had the discussion what we need to do in the future is break it up and make more intentional fellowship rather than just sitting and consuming.

There needs to be a time of fellowship.

And I was like, that's a great idea.

So this year we're splitting it up into three days.

March 12th, 13th and 14th in Bartlesville, Oklahoma.

We're going to have it at Hope Presbyterian Church.

Pastor Peter Johnson, he is a really, really, really good friend of mine and we're going to have it at his church.

And it's going to be hundreds of dollars like all these other big, big conferences, right?

4, 5, $700.

No, no, $75.

You sure?

$75.

I mean, I think that's the last, the last time I looked at it, it said $75, but the old website, but I'm pretty sure it's 75 bucks.

What is, what is the Website that they should go to.

Go to my website.

Caleb Gordon.org.

Very creative name.

Very nice.

Listen, I took hours to think of that.

You and Justin Peters.

I mean, you're just, you guys are.

Just so creative with the names, you know?

Justin Peters.

I blame my mother because she named me Caleb.

My dad wanted to name me after my granddad, which was Esridge.

That would have been Esridge Reed the second.

So, so what would you have called yourself?

I mean, like, you didn't want to speak.

My read.

I would have got my read.

I mean, that's, I mean, I still, my, my dad and my close, close friends still call me Reed to this day.

It was funny.

I had somebody, because somebody had heard, called me Reed all the time, heard me get called Caleb.

And they're like, why they call you Caleb?

And I was like, because it's my name.

That's my name.

And they're like, oh, I just know you was Reed.

I was like, yeah.

That'S the advantage.

You get to know if, if you, if you see someone where you, you ever have the experience where you see someone that's like, not where you usually would see them, and you're like, with.

A beard and you're not used to it?

Well, not even that.

No.

I, I, I remember I took my daughter to drop her off at college.

And I used to, I used to work for this guy.

And I saw this guy every day.

I mean, five days a week I would see this guy, and he walks up to me is like, hey, Andrew, how you doing?

And I'm just like, hi, how you doing?

Like, playing nice, like I know who he is.

And I'm like, sit there.

My wife.

He walks away.

Mark's like, that's your boss.

No clue.

That dude was.

I didn't expect him to see, to see him at, you know, my daughter's college.

Even though I like, it dawned on me afterwards.

Duh.

His son attends that school.

He's like a couple years ahead of her.

I'm like, oh, man.

Like, I felt so bad.

I'm like, you know, I should have known.

I should have known.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, you know, but, but what do you, what's the purpose of this conference?

Why are you trying to do it?

So like, we, we're torn around with Take Back.

Built to Conquer was the, the sort, kind of the initial theme for that.

We've sort of kind of changed around a little bit and we've, I, I'm gonna, I've changed it put to put the, the idea of forged to lead and have a blueprint for impact.

Like, that's the idea.

The tagline is blueprint for impact.

And so the idea is to figure out ways, just like how we've been having these conversations, a how to.

Of how we can impact our city for the glory of God and for the betterment of mankind.

So that's.

That's the idea of.

Of why we're going to do it and then have time where we fellowship and.

Because that's one of the things I think most people go to these conferences on a regular basis for is.

Yes.

To hear speakers.

It's not.

It's not that we won't have good speakers.

I've got this guy named Andrew Rapaport.

He's coming.

I don't know if you know him or not.

Yeah.

I would get rid of him.

We might cancel him.

Who knows?

Yeah.

Smartest thing you'd ever do.

And I. I know that we may bring in Keith Foskey.

I've got him on.

So if you.

If we have 50 people in attendance, 100 people in tenants, I mean, what's it good?

What's it going to take, folks?

We get enough people there, we can get Keith Fosky, we can get.

Who else?

Who else could we get out there if we had enough people?

I mean, if we.

Greg Moore would come.

I know.

Greg would come.

You would come.

Keith would come.

I'm coming.

I come, even if you don't pay me.

So it doesn't.

Like, you don't have to pay me.

I'm just coming.

Just.

I'm gonna show up and stay in your house.

All right?

Come on.

I got.

I got a bed.

I got an extra bedroom.

It's totally fine.

Just.

Come on.

So the goal is, if we get.

I mean, I would.

I mean, capacity is 299.

Like, the.

The venue holds 299.

The church, Hope Presbyterian, holds 299.

If we get.

So the 130, 300 300th person, we're throwing you out.

That's right.

Yeah.

300 people.

Absolute fire.

Fire marshal said, no way, Jose.

We'll put dual stuff.

You in the corner, in the balcony.

It'd be fine.

Or we'll put you on the stage.

I don't care.

Yeah, I mean, it's.

It's.

The thing is, it's a good time of fellowship.

You know, the.

The thing that I think a lot of people don't understand about good conferences is the fellowship.

I mean, it's.

Yes, there's good preaching, right?

But, you know, I've been to conferences that just have speaker after speaker after speaker after speaker, just back to back speakers.

And it's really interesting because when I go to those conferences, you'll see people that aren't attending the speaking event because they're fellowshiping with folks and they're like.

Oh, I can get the foyer.

Yeah, I can get, I can go get the, the let the speaking later.

I can hear it later.

Yeah, I can pull that up on my, on my ride home.

Yeah.

And that's why it's good to have a conference where fellowships built in, Right?

Yep.

So that's our ideas.

I mean, that was conversations that you and I had was you need to.

Let's, let's look at building up more fellowship, more time for networking, more time for, for, for implementing the ideas that we hear from the stage.

How can we implement these in our personal lives and just get to know each other on that personal level?

So that's, that's the hope is we're going to.

There's going to be a lot of fellowship, a lot of time to hang out.

We're going to have hear good talks, but there's going to be a lot of time to do.

It's three days.

We're going to have if businesses we, we have an open opportunity for businesses to put, have a business expo where people can put their booths and all that.

I'm, I'm torn around the idea of doing a podcast row, but I, I don't know.

I'm torn around with that idea.

It could be fun.

But.

Yeah, I just.

We'll see.

I still got time.

It's in March and we, we still got to get through the holidays.

And I get it.

People right now, they're like, well, I want to, I use.

Spend my money on holiday stuff, which I get.

That's great.

I, I'm so.

Yeah, I know that people.

January, you probably get people starting to.

But I would say if people shouldn't wait, wait till January, it's, you know, get tickets now.

Go to caleb gordon.org get, get your ticket so that you can make sure you got a seat.

And I think if, if there are 300 people that sign up, we're gonna throw Caleb into a cold plunge with all that ice in it.

Listen, if 300.

Listen, this is like back in the, the 90s youth pastor days.

If, you know, if you show up, 300 people show up.

I'll shave my head and eat a goldfish.

You know, whatever, you know.

Yeah.

If you want to throw me in a cold plunge.

And if 300 people show up.

I'll go in a cold plunge for, you know, several minutes.

So let's.

Let's go three.

300 people.

We throw.

We.

We throw, you know, Keith Fosky in a cold plunge.

We're going to commit him to it.

I mean, Keith could do that.

That'd be fine.

He'd be.

I'm sure he'd be fine with that.

No.

He'D probably get mad, but I.

I'd let you throw him in.

I mean, he could use one of his three black belts to prevent you from doing that.

Break me in half.

Yeah, I.

No, no, I'm not.

And Keith's a tall dude.

He's tall.

He's.

He's.

He is a big guy, but he's tall, people.

It's.

He's.

It's just.

He is a.

He really is a big, intimidating individual who's just this lovable low guy, you know, he's just.

Yeah.

Oh, and he's like a big teddy bear.

Just like.

I mean, getting a big Keith Fosky hug is the best in the world.

I love it.

It is.

It is fantastic beyond all.

All measure.

I love it so much.

So.

So, folks, can go to caleb gordon.org get the details there.

And you're going to be filling out more details, obviously, as we get closer with speaking, you know, topics and speakers and the agenda.

But people can go there right now, pick up tickets, and meet us in.

Well, meet us in.

In Bart.

Bartlettsville.

Bartles.

Bartlesville.

Bartles.

Bartlesville, Oklahoma.

We've got a Chick Fil A.

So you're total.

Oh, I plan on going to that Chick Fil A. I listen to the interview and I'm like, when I was listening to your interview on the Caleb Gordon show with him, I'm like, yeah, definitely.

When I come out there, we're going to Chick Fil A.

Chase is a great guy.

I love Chase.

He's such a.

He's such a good guy.

And all my kids have worked for him, and he's just.

He's.

He's fantastic.

I love Chase.

Yeah.

I figure one day I'm gonna go.

My theory is, you know, I'll.

I'll get older and I'll go work at, like, the Apple Store so I could learn how to fix all my devices and not have to use YouTube or something and just fix it myself.

And then.

Then I'll go to Home Depot and learn how to fix my house and.

And then become a jack of all trades.

And then I'll go to.

I'LL go to Chick Fil A just so I can eat.

That's it.

Just like, that's it.

You got a free meal.

Every.

Every time you work, you get a free meal.

Yeah.

That's.

My final retirement is just Chick Fil A. Yeah.

Yeah.

All 51 ingredients that are in the chicken.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think it'd be fun if we can get people to show up.

That's.

And I.

And I get it.

People are like, you know, sometimes people, oh, we're over conference.

Why.

Why do we have so many.

I think it's not bad to have a conference.

I think it's good to do them.

It encourages fellowship.

It encourages people getting out of their comfort zone, and they have to be intentional.

And when you.

And when people do put the money forward, they do have to have skin in the game.

And I think that's.

That's one of the ideas, is get some skin in the game and connect and meet with people and learn something.

I mean, you can walk away.

I mean, every last year at the conference, I learned, like, I still.

After Gabe's talk about the psalms, I still think back to some of the things he said about the psalms that I'm like, that was so incredibly helpful for me personally.

So.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it is something where, when we think about it and you.

You.

There's.

Yeah, there's a teaching, and people will be like, oh, I can get that teaching anywhere.

But there is something about the conference experience.

If people haven't attended a conference, you get some of the people who, you know from.

From a lot of different churches that are really on fire for the Lord.

Those are the people that go to conferences.

And so if you want to get fired up, go, Go to.

Go to a good conference.

Just because when you're around, it's like an iron, sharpening iron.

It's.

It's a great fellowship time.

And so that's.

That's the thing.

And I find it amazing that.

That people spend a couple hundred dollars to go to some concert.

Yes.

But they.

They're where.

They just go in, they sing some songs, I guess.

I. I don't go to concerts, but, you know, maybe they wave back and forth.

I don't know.

You know, I see pictures where people holding a flash.

I never understood that they hold a lighter or something.

But the.

But I don't know.

It's a weird thing.

We do it with our phones now.

We just hold up the light.

But you're.

You're not even talking to anybody.

You're with people, and they're like, oh, that was a great experience.

Well, learning sitting under the word of God and then after that going and, and not just having the word of God preach you, but then having discussions over it, having interactions.

That's where it really is.

And you're to.

I mean, there are people.

Look, you and I met at a conference and, and we now have, you know, a relationship outside of that where we talk regularly.

Same with, I mean, some of the people.

You know that same conference.

Right.

I mean I've, I've met Keith Fosky from a conference, met Greg Moore from conference.

I, I talk to these guys regularly.

Right.

You build a relationship with folks when you go because you just, you, you around other people who have a heart for the Lord like you and it just, it spurs you on.

And so I really encourage folks to, you know, it could be a lot.

I get it.

Especially if you're traveling and you're, you're putting time into, you know, hotel or flights.

But it, it's something where you really do.

You will build relations for eternity.

Come on.

Yes.

So want to encourage folks to think about that?

Go to caleb gordon.org and you can get all the details.

You can get tickets there.

But I do hope to see you in Bart's law.

So whatever you say it again.

Bartlesville.

Let me just say every guy named Jacob Bartles, the guy that town is named after a guy named Jacob Bar.

Well then why didn't they spell it right?

Bart.

Bart.

Bartles.

Bill.

I just a little bonus.

What is the, what does the name Jacob mean?

I think Jacob was like deceiver or supplanter.

It's supplanter.

That was what I was thinking.

Yeah.

I couldn't remember the word.

Yeah, yeah.

It's names.

You know what Caleb means?

No, that.

I don't know.

Tenacious old dog.

That fits.

I.

Listen, I grew up.

My, My dad was a.

Big names mean something.

And he.

Which is funny.

My brother David.

What's David mean?

The beloved one.

Yeah.

So you know who his favorite was?

I'm the, I'm the old dog.

The tenacious old dog.

Well, hey, Andrew means manly, so obviously I don't live up to it.

Beer.

Listen, that beard, it did it.

When you had that beard.

It was manly.

Just big old huge.

Nah, my wife didn't like it.

It was gone.

Well, hey, I, I do, I do look forward to seeing you again in March.

Yes, sir.

And at the.

Well, actually, is it still gonna be called the, the you know, built to conquer, right?

It's still I think we're.

Like I said, we're gonna, we're changing the name up on this thing and we're gonna call it.

Where'd I go with it?

I just want.

I forged to lead.

Okay.

Is the, is the, the idea and then the underlying of that is blueprint for impact.

Okay, I'll send you that, those details.

Cool.

Well folks, go to caleb gordon.org check that out and if you want to find out more information, buy some tickets.

Caleb would greatly appreciate because then he can do more.

He's got other people he'd like to invite and other.

Other things he'd like to do with it.

And this is how his retirement.

Well, no, actually.

Okay, let me just, let me just, let me just say I'm gonna, I'm gonna spill beans on things.

I might get myself in trouble, folks.

So last year's conference, Caleb actually put his own money into the conference to make it happen.

So he's on a pastor's salary.

Can you help him out, get some tickets, buy some tickets for friends, which actually makes it really fun if you come down with a bunch of church friends to go to the conference.

So calebgordon.org Caleb, thanks for coming on.

It's always great to hang out with you.

And that's a wrap.