[0:00:00] Brett Johnson: We are looking forward our way from Studio C in the Five one one studios in the Brewery District south of downtown Columbus, Ohio.

[0:00:07] Carol Ventresca: Hi.

[0:00:07] Brett Johnson: This is Brett. The issues of seniors and the need for senior services continues to grow in our community, and we're very happy to have our friend Katie White with us today. She was named the new agency director of the Central Ohio Area Agency on Aging. In fact, she was here on the podcast, like, moments before our she took the job officially, which is cool. And she's here again to give us a glimpse into COAAA's forward motion. Katie, thanks for being back.

[0:00:33] Katie White: Thanks for having me.

[0:00:34] Brett Johnson: Sure.

[0:00:35] Carol Ventresca: It's always wonderful to see you. And thank you for doing a two up here in this season for our podcast. And we have always learned so much about the aging community and the needs in the aging community whenever you come to see us. In the past as the director of age friendly Columbus in Franklin County and the director of the age friendly Innovation Center at Ohio State School or College of Social Work. That's a mouthful. But your business card was like, an eight by ten. Exactly. So now you're leading an agency that covers eight counties in Central Ohio. So talk about changes.

[0:01:18] Katie White: Absolutely.

[0:01:19] Carol Ventresca: So let's first talk about your journey to this point, your previous work and experiences and our academic training, because you have a fairly new Masters.

[0:01:27] Katie White: I do have a fairly new Masters. I graduated from my kitchen table alone during the pandemic. It was great. It was just how I always imagined it.

[0:01:35] Carol Ventresca: Yes. Especially in social work, right?

[0:01:37] Katie White: Yeah.

[0:01:37] Brett Johnson: Did you play some music in the background while you walked around the kitchen? Circumstance a little bit.

[0:01:41] Katie White: Maybe had a glass of wine.

[0:01:43] Brett Johnson: Okay.

[0:01:43] Carol Ventresca: There you go.

[0:01:43] Katie White: Offscreen.

[0:01:45] Brett Johnson: There you go.

[0:01:46] Katie White: Got to give yourself something.

[0:01:47] Carol Ventresca: Yeah, exactly.

[0:01:48] Katie White: So I have an interesting career path because it sort of reflects my personality, where I like to do a lot of different things. I don't like a ton of repetition, so I've been in a lot of different industries. My first job out of college was actually in logistics because no one knew what a gerontologist did. So then when I was finally able to convince someone in aging to hire me, I managed an Alzheimer's unit and an assisted living. Then I did a couple of years in Geriatric home health. Then I worked at the Alzheimer's Association, working with education in the rural counties and support groups, working with people with early onset. That then took me to Village Connections, where I helped launch the first village in town. And it was at a conference that I heard about Age Friendly Communities, white working for the Village Network and so brought that to town, led that for the last seven years. And then really, when I heard about Cindy retiring and the job opening, I thought, I can really pull together all these different pieces and all the different areas I've been in in aging and bring it together and hopefully carry on the legacy that she created.

[0:03:00] Carol Ventresca: We've known Katie for a long time. I helped her with age friendly Columbus when it started, so seven years ago, and I'm only guessing here, but older adults are always concerned about age discrimination hitting them, and they're not able to get a job because they're older.

[0:03:17] Katie White: Absolutely.

[0:03:18] Carol Ventresca: When you were trying to break into gerontology, was it the exact opposite? You look like you're twelve.

[0:03:25] Katie White: And it still is. Honestly, if I had a dollar for every time somebody over my career has said, aren't you a little young for this?

[0:03:32] Carol Ventresca: Exactly.

[0:03:32] Katie White: And especially in this role, it really is something that I can sort of laugh through. But it is it's a huge piece of sort of doubting, I think, what I can do, which is difficult, and I don't think anybody's really meaning it to be super harmful, but as someone who spent a lot of time thinking about ageism, yeah, it is difficult.

[0:03:54] Carol Ventresca: Right. Because, again, you're being judged on superficial issues as opposed to anyone really delving into what our skills are, which is exactly what older adults are dealing with. Yeah.

[0:04:04] Katie White: One of my things I have to say all the time on Zoom is if you could see me in person, I have a very wrinkly forehead.

[0:04:09] Carol Ventresca: Okay?

[0:04:09] Katie White: I'm older than I look. Zoom makes me look even younger. I have wrinkles, okay. And I earn them.

[0:04:16] Carol Ventresca: Well, it's unfair that you have to go around and say, well, I'm actually this old. Someone said something to me at the grocery store one day and said, well, you don't have to worry about Medicare. And I kind of looked, and I'm like, I'm way past that history, end of the story. So it's nice when you're older, somebody thinking that you're younger, but when you're younger and not being treated fairly in your level of skills, that's just as bad as age. That's ages them. At the other end of the it.

[0:04:46] Katie White: Is, and I think, sorry, we're going to go down here a little bit longer. But I think the industry is really interesting, too, because you put me or someone else my age in Amazon, you put us at Lift, you put us in Silicon Valley. We're probably a little old, actually, for their genre, but you put us in aging. And 38, which is how old I am, is super young. And so age is truly just a number. And so it's just been a really interesting question that I have faced forever.

[0:05:16] Carol Ventresca: And one thing we want to talk about is getting young people, younger people into these industries.

[0:05:22] Katie White: Exactly.

[0:05:23] Carol Ventresca: So it's never too early or too late to break in.

[0:05:27] Katie White: And honestly, what ends up happening a lot of times is someone didn't even consider going into a career in aging, and then they get here and they have one experience, and they're like, oh, my gosh, I'm hooked, and this is where I need to be. And so we do see a lot of second career people or students that didn't think they wanted the placement in the aging industry, but then they got it there, and then it really is this passionate path for them. And so the more we can get individuals outside of social services and inside them, of course, but business and therapy and counseling and whatever it is, if people can experience the aging field, I really do think that's going to help us grow the future.

[0:06:10] Brett Johnson: Yeah. Well, we had the opportunity to interview your predecessor, Cindy Farson, before she left COA, just in 22. It feels like it's been forever ago, but actually it's not. But she gave us an incredible overview of the history of Central Ohio Area Agency on Aging and the Area Agencies on Aging, which are in every state of the country today. We want to focus on the future, what's working, what's changing, be your wish list, you know? However, give our listeners a brief overview of COA. Again, the geographic area that served, which is huge number of clients, programs, and funding sources that were developed to meet the seniors needs.

[0:06:47] Katie White: Sure. So I have to say, that podcast with Cindy I listened to before my interview, I've listened to it often. Anybody that goes into age friendly retail to listen to that podcast, it's such a good one.

[0:07:00] Carol Ventresca: Shout out to Cindy, who did a.

[0:07:02] Katie White: Shout out to CF. Amazing.

[0:07:04] Carol Ventresca: 28 years.

[0:07:06] Katie White: I know. Yes, she's incredible. So the Central Ohio Area Agency on Aging serves eight counties, franklin county and all of the continuous counties around it. We serve about 15,000 individuals through our case management programs, whether that is our passport, our Medicaid programs, our care transitions, senior options. We actually have eight different case management programs that we run. We do a lot of education. We're working on housing advocacy. We have a volunteer guardian department. And then I think we'll get into it a little bit later, but there's a lot of little innovative programs that have sprung up over the last couple of years as well. So, as Cindy mentioned on the last podcast, we are federally mandated, so the Older Americans Act mandates that there are Area Agencies on Aging that serve every older American, but we also help a lot of individuals that are younger with disabilities as well.

[0:08:07] Carol Ventresca: What is the age with the age the Area Agencies on Aging, what is the age category for that federal funding?

[0:08:16] Katie White: 60.

[0:08:17] Carol Ventresca: 60 and up.

[0:08:18] Katie White: Yeah. Everyone's a little bit different. That's a great clarifying question.

[0:08:20] Carol Ventresca: Right. Because yeah, we used to go through that with different funding grants that the agency my agency had.

[0:08:27] Katie White: Yeah, whether it was 65 or 60.

[0:08:31] Carol Ventresca: So, Katie, I was amazed to discover all the services that are available in our community. Central Ohio has I don't think that we have more nonprofits than anybody else but we have well, I thought it was 9000, but when Dan Sharp from the Columbus foundation came in, it was many more thousands than that in central Ohio. So we have incredible resources. The senior services have not only increased, but they've become very inventive to meet the needs, because our notion of an older person just wanting to stay at home has cute. It's risen tremendously in terms of all the moving pieces that belong there. Highlight what the other agencies that support senior services in partnership with COA. Let's talk about all those partnerships.

[0:09:24] Katie White: Sure. Yes. And I've been on the job six months, so I'm still learning a lot of the partnerships. But in general, since I've been in the aging industry for a while, I can talk about a lot of our amazing partners. So when you think about aging services, it's really about this continuum, and there's so many different varying needs and levels of needs. What's great about having so many nonprofits is they sort of spring up and fill in whatever gaps might exist, whether that's because of funding or different policies. So, of course, there's the senior services roundtable, which brings together all of the different agencies and provides that communication and quick information exchange, age friendly, which we've mentioned, where it's really looking at how do we plan for the future, how are we researching and evidence based and growing the next generation of futures leaders in aging? There's the mainstays, like life Carol alliance providing meals on wheels. Our settlement houses are incredible, serving those neighborhood based folks where they're serving from kids to older adults, but really reactive to whatever the agency needs. One of our biggest partners is the Franklin County office on aging, so we do a ton with them. And when we think about neighborhood level, in addition to settlement houses, we also have villages. So those small nonprofits that are serving older adults as members that live in their neighborhood and connecting them to different volunteers and services. So I'm sure I'm forgetting a bazillion. There's transportation partners, there's caregiver partners. But what I will say is really great in central Ohio is the way everybody works together collaboratively.

[0:11:02] Katie White: There's maybe a little bit of competition here and there when it comes to some funding, but for the most part, I think everyone has this great dedication to saying who's the best person to fit what need to make sure that we're getting the services individuals want.

[0:11:16] Carol Ventresca: Well, and I think one of the fun things we've already been innovative in looking at senior services is the senior services roundtable, which we did a podcast on that actually a couple of years ago with Cindy and Fran Ryan. And we were really looking at that notion of there are a lot of cracks, a lot of places that things fall apart. But that senior services roundtable, which is a very informal group. There is no structure. There are no fees. Everybody can belong. And I think there's close to 1000 members in in the group now. And it's literally an email process where we just keep in contact with what's going on. And if a senior in our community needs something, usually an email goes out and literally within hours, it's taken care of.

[0:12:00] Katie White: Yeah. And whether it's with the Roundtable or the different services that we're providing at COA or the settlement houses, villages, and we'll get into this too. As we think about the future, I think we're all taking a minute and saying, what else do we need to be doing? What have we done that's worked? What have we done that's no longer working? And how do we continue to grow and evolve to meet the same mission that we've each set out to do, but within the new environment and the new context and challenges? So I think it'll be an interesting couple of years as we all work together to say what else and what's next?

[0:12:36] Carol Ventresca: And because over the past couple of years, we've seen where things could fall apart so easily.

[0:12:42] Katie White: My gosh.

[0:12:43] Carol Ventresca: Yes. And how we can go. I think one of the things that we want to do with this podcast is not only to make sure that people know there are resources out there, but people are convinced to ask for help.

[0:12:55] Katie White: Yes. Ahead of time.

[0:12:57] Carol Ventresca: Yes.

[0:12:57] Katie White: Before it's too late, before it's a crisis. Yeah.

[0:13:01] Brett Johnson: You mentioned in regards to the challenges and issues that were met and changed because of COVID Let's take a look at that. Let's say it's gone. We're past that pandemic challenge. So you had to make some changes, COA had to make some changes. I think you're realizing what those changes are and happened over the last three years, almost three years. What continued to change or what may be sped up? Did you see that? It's like, oh my gosh, we didn't realize we needed this. But it stuck. Those types of challenges and some programs that proved to be successful and all of a sudden it's like, wow, didn't know we needed this. And it works even after a pandemic.

[0:13:42] Katie White: Right? Well, I'll start a little bit off by just kind of going over some of the services that COA put in place and as authentically as possible. I'll share because of course I wasn't there. But I know as a colleague how extremely stressful and how hard everyone worked to sort of stand up some of these programs. So just need to give a great shout out to the COA staff. So during COVID-19, there was, of course, a number of different changes that happened. And so one of the mainstays for an area Agency on Aging is providing title Three funds, or federal funds from the Older Americans Act into different service providers. And so in addition to the general funds that were given out this year, COA also was in charge of distributing the Cares Act funds to different agencies in town. And so there was, of course, a huge ramp up of having to get more applications in, having to get funds out, and really thinking about how do we lean out some of these processes that generally take long because now we need the money out overnight. But in general, we also put together some different food assistance, including home delivered meals, grab and go, carry out. There was housing and utility assistance, legal assistance. We helped Coordinator Did ourselves delivery of personal care items and some emergency kits and then a lot of different equipment that was needed for different congregate centers or buses. You think about everybody had to buy all that plexiglass and put things up. And so when it was related to older adults and when we had the funds, COA was able to push those out and really be flexible in saying, what do you need? Let's make this work together.

[0:15:21] Katie White: I also want to mention, when you're asking what needs to stick, so I think the thinking about food delivery in a new way and who all should qualify and what those qualification processes should be, we really lessened those restrictions. I think that was great. If somebody is in need of food access, the least restrictive way to get that to them I think is huge legal assistance and financial assistance and housing assistance. Our housing prices are skyrocketing. The values are going to go up, which means the property taxes could go up. Intel is coming, growth is coming, so a lot of landlords are increasing prices. This housing, legal and financial assistance is here to stay and it's a huge need. Not that it's necessarily a new concept, but I think the volume and severity of the needs is different and that's something that will definitely stay within.

[0:16:18] Carol Ventresca: So Katie, when you think about the work that COA has accomplished, along with all the other agencies, what was your biggest surprise walking into this job? Positive and negative.

[0:16:30] Katie White: So to work in aging, but not at COA. You know how incredible the agency is. It has a great reputation for a great place to work, good connections, good inclusivity. You hear about serving a region and serving a lot of people and it just sort of sits and floats out there. And then you walk in the door and then I walk in the door and it is just awe inspiring. The day to day incredible things that COA staff members do. I mean, you think about 15,000 older adults in the community, whether they're in assisted living or in their homes or an apartment complex, and just a vast array of different challenges and opportunities that each of those individuals experience. And knowing that we're the people that are connecting with them, we're the people that are making sure they're getting what they need, one of my favorite things to do is to just walk around and listen to people on the phone. And it just I mean, this is going to sound dramatic, but I get goosebumps hearing just those day in, day out, everyday regular connections that I think probably a lot of the case managers and staff there take for granted. But for me to go around and hear them, it's just amazing. It's truly incredible the work that they do. So I think that was a pleasant surprise just to be that taken aback at the talent and the passion that goes into these everyday things.

[0:17:57] Carol Ventresca: And those folks have been doing those jobs for a long time.

[0:18:00] Katie White: We have some serious longevity. Yeah. Now we're about our hundred employees. And so that's huge. But you've got a big array of individuals that have been there ten years, 20 years. We have people that have been there 30 years, and then we've got this additional sort of newer workforce, a good amount at the other end that's been there five years or less. And so we're kind of this little microcosm of a study of what does it look like to have four generations of individuals in the same building and.

[0:18:31] Carol Ventresca: Age does not determine level of where you are in the hierarchy either.

[0:18:37] Katie White: No, it sure doesn't. It's just yet. A number. Just a number. Yeah.

[0:18:43] Brett Johnson: We've had a lot of discussions, a lot of podcast episodes talking about housing and transportation that's included in our discussion, or maybe the main focus all regarding seniors. Do you have any additional information on programs in this area that can help out as well?

[0:18:58] Katie White: Sure. So one of your questions earlier is about like a wish list, I think. Right. And so I'm going to tie it in here and talk about the fact that if I had a couple of wishes specifically around providing services and housing and transportation, I would make the process of getting funds to support services much easier. I don't know if that's possible, but I am sort of going down that route to see what all can be tweaked or maybe modernized in terms of what's allowable through the Older Americans Act.

[0:19:30] Carol Ventresca: As one of the individuals who received funding and wrote one of those, tell.

[0:19:37] Katie White: Me how hard it was.

[0:19:38] Carol Ventresca: Oh, it was tough. It was tough.

[0:19:40] Katie White: And then when you get the funding, it's tough to then put in your reporting and all of that. And, you know, the spirit and the essence of the Older Americans Act funding is to get it into the community where it needs to go. So how it got from this funding needs to go to older people, to the processes that you have to go through until it all the way gets down to the community level. It's just too much. And we're seeing that in terms of providers leaving the space because there's so much administrative cost to getting these funds, that's just not worth it. And the reimbursement rates aren't necessarily increasing either, depending on what services you're providing. So I think in order to innovate in terms of interventions and services. We also need to be pushing some policy changes because we have to be able to think outside some of the specific silos that were set up.

[0:20:29] Carol Ventresca: And when you're talking about those kinds of changes, you're really talking about Congress, congress, congressional changes. It's not local.

[0:20:36] Katie White: It's not local. Well, part of it could be local. The Ohio administrative code, some of it's in there. But the great news is between the area agencies on aging across the state and Ohio Department of Aging, we're all at the table and talking about these things in Ohio Department of Medicaid and saying, okay, this was written at a time, and it made a lot of sense, and it provided a lot of good over the years. But all of a sudden, now we don't have a plethora of people providing transportation services. We don't have enough caregivers. We don't have all of the things we used to have. So how do we kind of flip it and think about getting funds into new and different programs that can serve those needs? So, all that to say, I have all these little soapboxes. But anyway, so some of the cool programs that I should share, there was a program with Lyft that was piloted a few years ago where the villages were able to tap into Lyft concierge and schedule rides for their members. They didn't have to pay. They didn't have to have the app. That was a pilot project in 2019 and actually is still in existence in some of the villages. So the pilot money ran out, but they were able to identify and secure additional funds to keep that program going because it was so successful in making sure that older adults can get to where they need to go. There has been some expanded services through our Koda Mobility office or a paratransit available in town.

[0:22:00] Katie White: So they created Koda mainstream on demand, and that is much like an Uber Lyft, right, where you can schedule your ride in real time, except it's with their accessible fleet. So that's incredible and amazing. They also added a new position for a travel trainer and mobility manager. So trying to get to our point earlier ahead of maybe someone not being able to drive, but they've never taken the bus. So how do we train more people around how to take the bus or how to use the Koda app? And then they also are just hiring in their first social worker into that office, too, which will be great to think about those wraparound services. A lot of cool stuff going on there. I also want to make sure I talk about Nesterly.

[0:22:44] Carol Ventresca: Nestle one of our favorites. What is it?

[0:22:47] Katie White: Have you had Francis on in Tamra?

[0:22:50] Carol Ventresca: Francis we covered a webinar oh, great. Their webinar on housing issues across the state. And we included that in a podcast. But we're going to bring Francis back on again.

[0:23:03] Katie White: Good. Well, I think Nesterly is really about to just explode because we're in a housing crisis foundational, everybody knows that. But now that the Revaluation is going to come out from the county auditor's office and we know those values are going to go up, I think people are going to be even more financially strapped, unfortunately. But I think that might also open their minds into maybe this is a way that I can maintain my home, stay where I want to live, get a little extra income, maybe a little socialization. So I'm really excited to be in AAA and get to sort of just tangentially watch and help where I can with Nesterly because I think that's an.

[0:23:44] Carol Ventresca: Awesome wave of the future and for our listeners. Nesterly is basically taking an older adult who is a homeowner and has lots of extra space in their home and giving them an opportunity to work in a safe environment to get a young person living with them paying rent. But Nesterly is the one who's coordinating a lot of the stuff in the background. So the older person is not taken advantage of.

[0:24:10] Katie White: Correct.

[0:24:10] Carol Ventresca: Nor is the younger person.

[0:24:12] Katie White: Yes. And so it's a software where it pairs our different interests and where you want to live and potentially what you would want to pay and then what type of roommate you might want. And it really puts it all in a safe space where there's a background check and some matching and even the payment goes through the system, which is nice. So it's not like Mrs. Jones has to remind Andrea every month that she needs to pay. Right. I think it's like the perfect example of an old idea that still works with just like a little modern twist.

[0:24:42] Carol Ventresca: To make it easier and technology to support it.

[0:24:45] Katie White: Absolutely.

[0:24:46] Brett Johnson: Keep it safe too.

[0:24:48] Carol Ventresca: Absolutely.

[0:24:50] Brett Johnson: Maybe I've missed this, but have health systems considered some type of transport system to help bring patients to see the dock?

[0:24:59] Katie White: I think it kind of depends on which health system. I know some of them have their own buses and are picking them up from different places. I don't know that it's door to door necessarily, but that's certainly a space. I think it could work.

[0:25:12] Brett Johnson: You would think it would keep older adults healthier, right, in an easier way and kind of put the onus on the health systeminsurance? Probably. But at the same time they're there, if the older adult is going to the doctor, they're going to be healthier and it's going to cost the insurance company and the health system less.

[0:25:33] Katie White: I'm going to paint a little picture for a second. Is that okay? Absolutely. An older adult goes into the hospital and before they're discharged, they realize that they have a certain insurance and AAA has a contract with that insurance. So then we enact what we call our Care Transitions program where we have an individual reach out and talk to them. What do you have at your house, what do you need? Then when they do go home, our registered nurses go out, check on the pills, make sure they got their prescriptions, remind them of when their follow up appointments are. And then in a perfect world, this person also lives in a neighborhood with a village. And so then they call the village to say, hey, you've got three follow up appointments. Let's make sure that this individual gets all of that care. And by the way, they don't need Meals on Wheels yet, but they need a little help. Could you send a volunteer over to make some soup and store it in their fridge or whatever? Right. So that's an example of a co AAA system, a hospital system, an insurance system in a village, all very separate, but working together to make sure that there's this holistic approach to providing what's needed.

[0:26:39] Carol Ventresca: Right. Well, I want to step back too, and talk about Koda, the mobility system. And God love Koda. Everybody complains, but I would not want their job.

[0:26:50] Katie White: I love Koda.

[0:26:51] Carol Ventresca: Well, everybody wants everything, and they want it now, and they want it perfect, and they want it cheap. And I wouldn't want to have to come up with ways to make that happen. But we had a great podcast with our friend from Morpsey, and Thea is always giving us some updates on Koda.

[0:27:11] Katie White: Great.

[0:27:11] Carol Ventresca: One of the things that they're working on is that whole notion of workers getting out to intel and other companies to support that process because we don't have a pipeline, because we don't have workers who have transportation to get to the employer. Well, some of those workers could be 50 or 60 and over. Absolutely. Because you're not looking at heavy lift type positions. Lots and lots of things that could be done in any of those new industries. So when we're talking about mobility, it's not just because somebody needs physical help or caregiving.

[0:27:48] Katie White: Right.

[0:27:49] Carol Ventresca: Older adults have lots of other stuff that's on their plate, and working is one of them.

[0:27:53] Katie White: Yeah, well, and mobility challenges exist for all of us across the age span. Right. So I have mobility challenges when it comes to getting my kids to and from where they need to go sometimes.

[0:28:06] Carol Ventresca: Right, exactly.

[0:28:08] Katie White: Or somebody injures themselves or, you know, who knows what it could be. But I think sometimes we we think about these mobility challenges and sort of these different silos, to use that word again. And really, if we kind of take a step back, there's a lot of commonalities around these different mobility challenges we might need. So if we just sort of think differently, how much more supportive that would be. So if I could add one more thing to my wish list now, there would be a long list, but I'll keep it succinct for today. But I would love for us to be able to secure funding, to create a new housing department, a new. Housing coalition. I don't know what it would be. But essentially, as housing continues to be a challenge and we know there aren't enough available units that are, quote unquote, affordable, we certainly don't have enough that are low or extremely low income. There's a lot of space that's needed for advocacy in between all of the different things that are available. So, for example, whether you're staying in your home or you're staying in your apartment or you're an affordable housing complex, you might be stuck in place. Right, because I want to move, but I can't move because there's nowhere else to go. And depending on where you are, they might know that. And so you might have a leak or the power goes out, or the heat goes out. But there isn't really enough advocacy and push from an outside entity to say, we need to be making sure that our current housing is accessible, affordable, providing you everything that you need.

[0:29:43] Katie White: And so I would be safe? Yes, absolutely. So I would love to be able to come up with some funding or some ways that we could sort of have this force of individuals that are out there. And it's really about just advocating and making sure that when there are challenges, they have a place to call and that there's some sort of meat behind it to be able to say, excuse me, XYZ Company, we know that your heat has been offered two days, or we know that there's mold over here. So I think that's the one piece that's missing right now, or at least isn't strong enough right now.

[0:30:16] Carol Ventresca: Right. Well, you were with us with Franklin County Auditor stimiano to talk about the issues that had arisen because of the housing crisis, where older adults were becoming trapped in a home that they couldn't afford the increasing tax rates.

[0:30:34] Katie White: Right.

[0:30:34] Carol Ventresca: And so in that particular case, they own the house. But do we have any clue how many of our seniors are living in rentals? Or as you said, housing complexes that are very dependent on the owner landlord to take care of their house, their living environment?

[0:30:57] Katie White: Well, as far as a statistic goes, I don't have that off the top of my head, but I would imagine it's a lot. So the affordable housing that we have, much of it was built a long time ago, and so the different maintenance needs can be really expensive. We often have these calls coming in from different folks living in different complexes saying the elevator is out, or again, the heat is out, the power is out. So it's a space that we're sort of stuck between a rock and a hard place. Right. We can't lose the affordable housing that we have, but we also need to make sure the affordable housing we have is adequate and safe.

[0:31:32] Carol Ventresca: Isn't there some rulings now where new housing complexes are required to have so many units that are low income?

[0:31:41] Katie White: I think it's affordable? I don't know if it's low income, but affordable means affordable like average market rate.

[0:31:47] Carol Ventresca: Right. Wouldn't that be wonderful if there was also a requirement to have units that were affordable for seniors? It would be affordable for a family where possibly both parents are working. May be very different from a senior who's on a fixed income of Social Security, which is not that high.

[0:32:05] Katie White: Right.

[0:32:06] Carol Ventresca: So there you go.

[0:32:07] Katie White: There's the idea that's it okay and.

[0:32:09] Carol Ventresca: That'S where you're going to get the funding for that housing coalition.

[0:32:12] Katie White: Exactly.

[0:32:13] Carol Ventresca: I do come up with these ideas.

[0:32:14] Katie White: I know. And I do need to say there's amazing people working in affordable housing, but specifically around older adults. And sort of this emerging need is where I think we can lean in a bit more.

[0:32:23] Carol Ventresca: And given the fact that Franklin County is aging, it's probably the least aging of the counties in Ohio, but your other seven counties that you're working with, age rates are likely increasing.

[0:32:37] Katie White: Yeah. Across every county. Now, rural Ohio is aging faster. Right. But yeah, the affordable housing challenge is not definitely not just in Franklin County. It's in all the counties.

[0:32:48] Carol Ventresca: Right? Oh, yeah. Some are very high. Okay, we're going to pivot a little bit here. Okay, let's start thinking future. 2023 is we are hitting the ground running in 2023, needless to say. What were you able to accomplish in 22? And how are you now set for 23 plans that are developed, new programming, staffing, funding, millions of dollars coming in. Too bad you're not getting a lottery money.

[0:33:19] Katie White: I know. I keep playing and I keep not winning. Okay. You know when you take a new job and you feel like you've really got it? When you know how to print and you can get in the building? Right.

[0:33:31] Carol Ventresca: And you remember your password and your new email address?

[0:33:36] Katie White: Yes. So those have been accomplished thanks to.

[0:33:39] Brett Johnson: The amazing successes for 2022.

[0:33:46] Katie White: Keeping the bar low for myself. In all seriousness, though, just meeting everyone in an agency of 400, I mean, it's just a lot of people and sort of overwhelming when you're like the newbie but I have been trying to take a lot of time and effort to do various ways of engaging and meeting staff. So I've been hosting Coffee Chats, where I bring in coffee and anybody can come down and just say whatever. It's good ideas. I should get donuts. Okay. When you come up with donuts, there's Tim Morton's right by us. There you go. And then I've been doing shadowing. So I started basically what I was calling, like, follow the referral. So I started at the front desk and what is it like to answer phone calls and oh, my gosh, they answer between 4000, 5000 phone calls a month. And then I followed a referral into our screening process. What departments might people need to be transferred to, then to the assessment process when we go out and see is someone we assess them to make sure they are able to join one of our programs. So now I'm spending time in each of the programs to understand the differences between case management for Aetna, for Molina, for Passport, for senior options. So I'm trying to really understand the agency from all these different angles, which for me has been extremely helpful in just kind of grasping the enormity of what we do as well as meeting people.

[0:35:18] Katie White: So, for me, that's been a big accomplishment, is just building trust and showing up and making sure that people know that I'm here because I care about the mission and that I really want to be someone that they feel they can come to and that is supportive of what they do. So not that there's any key performance indicators that I can put around those 2022 accomplishments, but I do feel pretty proud about doing that. And Cindy's legacy, it cannot be underestimated. I mean, the people that are within the walls, the people that are in the community across the nation, statewide. So part of what I also need to do is just learn even more about someone who I call a close mentor and friend and who has meant so much to me, but really learning some of the intricacies of what she did and what made her so successful. So that either I can emanate those or if there are skills that I didn't have that I can find some people and bring them in to make sure that I don't screw things up. Right. No pressure.

[0:36:23] Carol Ventresca: Being the director of that agency isn't just being taking care of operations. You're looking at a political level, the funding level, the outreach engagement level around the community.

[0:36:38] Katie White: Correct.

[0:36:40] Carol Ventresca: But Cindy had the luxury she won't appreciate me saying this, but the luxury of sort of growing into the size of the agents yes.

[0:36:51] Brett Johnson: Thinking the same thing for 28 years, it grew around her. What it looked like 28 years ago, we don't know. I mean, right.

[0:36:59] Carol Ventresca: And truly, COA went through a huge change and increase in staff not that long ago, 2014, with the changes in Medicare, Medicaid in the state of Ohio around the Affordable Care Act. So that it was huge. Huge. And she built that. But now suddenly you're sort of walking into the forest.

[0:37:20] Katie White: Yeah. Trying to seePass the trees, and not only a forest, but, like, a flourishing, gorgeous, incredible forest. And I'm like, oh, my gosh, I need to make sure that I'm doing as much as I can to learn as quickly as I can to do this place justice, because it just is this incredible place. And I will say another piece of what I'm trying to do, especially in 23 as I listen and we think about what are some of our core themes that we want to work on and putting some action steps. In there and listening to staff about how we can accomplish that. But also understanding how did COA evolve and grow in response to the different demands that occurred over those 28 years and even before that. Right. And so then what are the different changes in the environment that are happening now, or that I foresee that I can learn from those methods and continue to evolve the agency to go where it needs to go to be successful.

[0:38:21] Carol Ventresca: So far, the Older Americans Act has been safe, consistent, and consistent, not increasing dramatically based on just the number of baby boomers coming through. It's not been really added to with the number of people that you have now suddenly are serving. And that's not going to change. There are going to be more and more people who are going to be in need.

[0:38:46] Katie White: Right.

[0:38:47] Carol Ventresca: Do we have any clue as to what's going on with the Older Americans Act? I think it was just re upped not long ago.

[0:38:53] Katie White: I don't know that there's many changes occurring right now, but I know there's a groundswell of advocacy and putting data together to help push forward some potential changes that we think need to occur.

[0:39:07] Carol Ventresca: And when you're talking about putting data together, that is not easy.

[0:39:11] Katie White: It's not easy. It's not easy. But it is part of the future, right, where you need someone to come in that understands how to speak data and how to put it into a story that can then support what you need.

[0:39:23] Carol Ventresca: So when you're talking about the issues of data, that's not easy. Caregiving in Ohio and specifically in central Ohio has nothing to do with the model of caregiving in Dayton, let alone Denver.

[0:39:38] Katie White: Right.

[0:39:38] Carol Ventresca: So to do that on a national level is going to be a huge challenge to create and a huge challenge then to fill the data points.

[0:39:49] Katie White: Absolutely. Whether it's caregiving or transportation or housing or education, whatever the next current intervention or the new interventions that need to be created, we need to have the data to support it. That's just where we're headed. And I think that will be a really interesting concept in 2023, that we will put a lot of time and effort into understanding what are our data needs, what kinds of data do we have, and then how do we put those two together to package up and tell our story.

[0:40:18] Carol Ventresca: If I remember correctly, the Sam's program, which is the database of information on not just for older adults, but literally for services to across Ohio. Across Ohio. When they first told me about the Sam's program, and I was always very I think I said something to the board about if we'd have to do Sam's, I'm quitting. It was like 600 pieces of data per person.

[0:40:46] Katie White: I don't know the exact numbers, but I know it's actually called WellSky now, or Sam's is robust and not necessarily as efficient or easy as individual organizations providing these important services as it would.

[0:41:03] Brett Johnson: Be right well, before we end, we ask guests if they have any last words of wisdom they like to add. You know, the routine. You've been on this podcast before. So any words of wisdom as we end?

[0:41:14] Katie White: I have new words of wisdom.

[0:41:15] Brett Johnson: All right, cool.

[0:41:16] Katie White: I have new ones. Okay, so we are entering this era where so many pioneers and important individuals in human services and social services are retiring. And so this one goes out to all the new leaders taking over some of those roles. So my wisdom is if you're stepping into a new leadership role and sort of taking the baton from someone that has been there a long time and holds a legacy, to be patient, to listen to those around you, and give yourself grace and time and to really learn what the history and legacy was about. And then as you start to plan sort of your own time and what it might look like for you, then you can incorporate that respect for the past and build it into your future. And I think that really will help with different buy in as this sort of next wave of leaders comes into these positions.

[0:42:09] Carol Ventresca: Wonderful. Katie, thank you. Thank you so much for joining us. Many thanks to Katie White, agency director for the Central Ohio Area Agency on Aging, for joining us today, listeners. Thank you for joining us. And do not forget to check our show notes for contact information for Katie and COAAA, as well as all the other resources that we're going to include, go to our website at looking forward our way. We are looking forward to hearing your feedback on this and any of our podcast episodes.