Speaker: 00:00:00

I think when you're young, you have this image of what life will be and how it will pan

out.

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I was born and grew up in Hong Kong.

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My parents are Dutch-Swedish.

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so that makes me a third culture kid.

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from a different culture, but growing up in another culture.

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And I didn't expect life to have as many curveballs actually, as it would.

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Welcome to Psychologically Speaking, a podcast all about human behaviour.

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I'm Leila your psychologist, researcher and host.

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Last season was all about planning, direction and working towards something that felt

fixed or purposeful.

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But this season is very different.

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This season is about what happens when life throws you curveballs and when the thing that

you thought you working towards suddenly shifts.

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Our theme?

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Expect the unexpected.

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delighted to welcome Femka to the chat.

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She describes herself as a third culture kid and founder.

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She worked internationally across Hong Kong, Belgium, Afghanistan and the UK.

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Navigating motherhood, relocations and major life transitions along the way, she runs the

Merry-go-round club.

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It's a baby equipment rental club because she says that babies don't have to cost us the

earth.

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Femka welcome to the Psychologically Speaking podcast.

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Well, thank you so much for having me and I'm very excited to be here.

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it's great to have you.

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I love the idea that babies don't have to cost the earth.

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That's such a metaphorical and literal kind of tagline to have for a business.

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And I can't wait to hear how you came up with the idea and where you're at with it.

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What is your unexpected moment across your life or career that you want to talk about

today?

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I think when you're young, you have this image of what life will be and how it will pan

out.

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know, as a child, especially as a girl, think, I have children by this age and, you know,

have all sort of it in your head and when I'm grown up.

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And I didn't expect life to have as many curveballs actually, as you said, as it would.

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Each one of them has made me who I am today and I'm grateful for a lot of them.

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Not all of them, but grateful for a lot of them.

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But I didn't expect life to be like that.

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I think I expected it to be a bit more plain sailing um in that sort of Disney world that

we get first.

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So we talked off camera a little bit about this idea of movement and adversity being two

of those things that have just come up for you in your life.

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So we'll get into that.

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But first of all, tell me about the inspiration behind the Merry-go-round Club, how it all

started and where are you with it at the moment?

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Yeah, thank you.

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So merry-go-round started.

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I had...

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our first child in Hong Kong and we were living there at the time and it was a very

transient environment.

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Lots of people were quite open to within the expat community, not the local community, but

within the expat community to buying secondhand and passing on.

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And so I would say about 90 % of the things that we bought for our first was secondhand.

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And then we moved to the UK.

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So we moved back to the UK.

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and had our second year quite soon after that.

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And I was quite good at finding second hand, selling off things.

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And I just looked at the whole model and I thought, this isn't, this doesn't, sustainable,

so it doesn't work.

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It's really expensive equipment that you're sort of sold that you have to have, but you

use it for such a short period of time.

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And then it's up to you to sell on or, or.

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pass on.

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Now I was later in my friendship group to have children so not only did I not get anything

passed on to me when I got back to the UK but I had no one else to pass it on to.

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And so yeah I just, the model was broken in my view and I felt there was a lot of waste.

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There was a lot of confusion around the things that we needed to do.

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Obviously all the brands are very good at marketing what they need or what we need.

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And so I just, yeah, I sort of the inspiration came from there.

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I had been percolating the idea after my first actually, and then had the second, then

there was COVID.

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So it sort of got delayed.

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Actually, no one would have rented during COVID.

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And then I met somebody at the school gate actually and she had a similar idea and that

sort of spurred me on to just to get going really.

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So that's where we went.

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what an amazing idea and certainly I've got one child, he's 10 now, but when we had our

first baby, I'll admit, you know, I look back at everything that we bought brand new and

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there was a bit of, it was difficult because I think some of it was, I wanted to buy new

things, this was a new thing coming into my life and I wanted to buy new things, but

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knowing what I know now.

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on how little things are used and how temporarily.

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I don't think you know that when you're pregnant or perhaps you don't realize it.

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So I think anything we can do to reduce our consumption and reuse is just amazing.

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and the cost.

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I mean, it costs an absolute fortune to get us out.

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And there's lots of people think, I justify the cost.

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I'll have buy it for the first and then I'll use it for the ones after.

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But there's a period where, well, a fallow period basically, where it's not being used

because you don't know if you will have another, if you can have another.

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And it's just sitting there.

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It's not being used.

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It's not being utilized.

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so I just, yeah, I thought, right, well, rental is the way forward.

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And actually, we started with travel rentals because we knew that existing parents would

get it.

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know, multiples of carriers and bottles and all kinds of things, they would get the fact

that you don't need to buy another buggy to go on holiday for two weeks, you can rent it.

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And then we started exploring it into the new mum space as well, or new parents space.

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I do wonder then, because you have frequently moved and had movement across different

countries and different organisations, do you think that's had an impact on the type of

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business that you founded?

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Yes, and weirdly I don't think about around the renter, I think it's more around the

support.

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I found that when I had my little one, it was quite a lonely period.

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You think, you know, after that afternoon nap, that sort of aching stretch until it's sort

of bath and bedtime.

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But how am going to fill that time?

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mean, now obviously, to be a luxury.

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But at the time, I felt quite lonely.

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now that mine are at school, there's a big community at school.

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And I've found an amazing group of women.

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But there's that period where you have little ones.

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And you might go to a baby class and meet someone.

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But that's once a week for half an hour.

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And then that's it.

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But.

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around the rental piece and trying to remove the confusion around that because I thought

that was another big thing is trying to provide a support.

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And so way that we conduct our socials and things is very much we're here for you, we

understand, you know, it's all a phase, you're not doing anything wrong.

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And trying to provide that level of support to a mum at 3am in morning when she's

scrolling through Instagram.

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when the baby is not going back to sleep after having had a feed.

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And the number of, had actually last night, I got a message at 3.15 saying, have you got

this?

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When can you deliver it?

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I've really desperately need it.

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So she's obviously been up all night with another one and thinks that this is the cure.

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So it's actually around the support in the community.

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Moving as much as I have, it's really important to create that.

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I'm, I guess it's a skill that I've grown.

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over time, out of need and necessity.

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So tell us a little bit about the unexpected movement in your life and also perhaps what

was expected.

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So there must have been something about your childhood which meant that you moved more

frequently.

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so I was born and grew up in Hong Kong.

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My parents are Dutch-Swedish.

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They met there, were married there, so that makes me a third culture kid.

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The definition is basically one, you're from two different cultures, or from a different

culture, but growing up in another culture.

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And being in Hong Kong was a very expat community, but I wasn't an expat, but I wasn't

local.

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So all friends that I had at school, they would come in and then leave after two, three

years because they were on expat contracts.

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But my father had his own business there.

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So he was there for 35 years, I think.

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And so we weren't expats, but we weren't local.

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So there was, from a very start,

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friends would come and go, friends would come and go, constant, that constant churn.

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I talked to people and they were like, oh yeah, no, we knew each other from nursery and

we're still friends.

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I mean, I'm still friends with some of them, but that's quite rare compared to the friends

that I have here.

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So at the age of 16, we left Hong Kong.

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My father sold his business, the handover was happening, and their plan was to move back

to Europe, so we moved to Belgium.

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So...

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but I only had two years left at school.

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So I did two years at school in Belgium and then came here because all my education had

been in English.

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So it was either studying here or America.

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Now I'd never lived in either country and chose England as the closest.

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I was bereft leaving home.

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I did not want to leave home and actually had a bigger culture shock coming from Belgium

to England.

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than I did from Hong Kong to Belgium.

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in what way?

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I think it comes down to expectation.

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So I'd grown up in Hong Kong but spent my summers in Europe.

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So I'd spent summers in Holland, I'd spent summers in Sweden and I knew the culture that

was around those, European side of life.

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And I think the expectation was that with me speaking English and the language that it

would be similar to Europe, but England is not similar to Europe.

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I was very quickly put into a, because of the way I speak, everyone assumed I was from

boarding school, I came from a decent family, and you see, it sort of pigeonholed me.

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And I'd never grown up in a class society environment before.

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And then socially, I found it very odd.

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In Europe, you start going out at about 10 o'clock at night, and that's when you start

your evening and...

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So the first time I went to a pub and that bell went off.

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What's going on?

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And people had to explain to me that it was last orders at the bar.

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So what do you mean last orders at the bar?

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I've just got there.

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And so yeah, it was a real shift for me to come here.

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And so yeah, there was that.

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Then I was here and lived in lots of different places, studied.

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law but didn't end up doing law which was again quite a shift because everything I'd

wanted to do I wanted to be a lawyer.

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Everything, you know, was gearing towards that.

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I did a law degree, that was what I was going to do.

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Then I did the degree and decided actually I didn't love this as much as I thought.

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Whose expectation was that Femke?

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Was that your expectation that you would do law?

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Was it family law?

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No, it was mine.

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It was mine.

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And, you know, my parents were quite, they weren't directional in that sense.

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My dad had done various things.

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He'd, in Holland, you have to be in the army.

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And then he'd gone to a bank and lived in Tanzania in the 60s and then Hong Kong and then

Japan for a bit again in the 60s and then back and then had his own business.

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It was very much my idea, but it's a very one direction idea.

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And when you cut that, I felt quite lost and I didn't have family in the UK to go back and

stay with.

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I didn't have a really close family friend that I could stay with.

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I was on my own trying to figure it out.

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And that was, again, quite an adjustment.

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And I ended up falling into recruitment and didn't love it.

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I recruited legal secretaries for three months, that wasn't as much as it weren't.

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And then I ended up in an outsourced recruitment company and they featured a few times

throughout my life actually.

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Worked for them for five years and again still didn't love it, didn't really know where I

was going.

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Ended up doing a people and communications diploma because I really wanted to into the

communication side of things.

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and managed that, worked at the DMGT, the Daily Mail General Trust, so the online part of

the business.

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But then it was 2008 and no one needs the people, all the communications, and so I lost my

job.

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And again, another hurdle, I just thought, what am I going to do now?

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And that was a really good wake-up call that very few of us have a second string to our

bow.

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And I just thought, well, I've done all this, but now what can I do?

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And so at the time I was a workout group on the common as sort of outdoor workout and the

government were doing and free NVQs for people to train to be a trainer.

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So I thought, right, that's my second string.

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So I trained to be a trainer and that then became my morning job for four years before my

day job.

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So you were fitness training out on a common one.

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the rain, snow, sleet, sun, all of it.

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Wixing before Joe was Joe Wixing.

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And it was a female group and it was such a brilliant support and community that we're

still in touch.

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so, yeah, I did that for four years and I was doing any kind of job.

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So I was selling cups in a pottery shop and I was handing out flyers.

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waitress at the Freemasons, I did everything just to keep going because I had a mortgage

at that point and my ex at the time said well I always thought I'd have to support you but

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I just hadn't anticipated doing so yet so I thought right I am NOT going to take anything

from you I am going to do this and I did and ended up a friend of mine said look there's

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this guy up the road he's just

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he needs a bit of hand, if anything it's the money for three months.

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So I thought fine, okay, so I met him and I ended up working with him for four and a half

years and he had just signed a contract with Maersk, the Danish shipping line and the

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Maersk run 40 % of the USDOD freight and so Captain Phillips, I don't if you've seen that

movie, that was all ships and

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we ran the operation for them in Afghanistan because they were in Pakistan but didn't want

to be in Afghanistan.

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So I mean we're talking frozen chicken, plywood, toilet roll, but it's all essential like

the soldiers all need that.

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And so I did that.

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I built and ran a container yard for four and a half years in Kabul.

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That's, I mean, just to go from being, you know, doing that personal training stuff, legal

secretary recruitment, selling the property, the stuff with the Freemasons.

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And then, you know, you're an operational leader in international shipping.

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I mean, it's such uh a pivot.

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Yeah, massive, massive pivot.

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mean, the Ross, you know, sort of sofa pivot moment is, yes, a pivot.

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Yeah, so I did that and that contract came to a close and I ended up being called by

another Danish company.

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And that contract, by the way, I was based in London going out to Kabul on visits, which

was amazing, fascinating.

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And but this other Danish company contacted me and said work call me.

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So I did called him at the time I was going through a divorce and we had delayed our sale

of the property because we were under it was under that restrictive period where you have

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to pay back a lot of money and we couldn't afford that.

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So he'd moved out.

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I was still at the time doing my PT on the common whilst running the container.

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That was giving me money to pay for my food.

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And that's how tight things were.

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I'd had to get a lodger in to help.

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And then this guy called me, he said, work, call me.

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So I did and contacted him and he said, yeah, I need a country manager in, the ISAF base

in Kandahar running NATO contracts.

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Will you do it?

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And the pay was great.

216

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It was tax free.

217

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And I said, yes.

218

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So.

219

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did he know about you?

220

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Um, LinkedIn, I've been on LinkedIn.

221

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have been on LinkedIn since 2006.

222

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And I knew that with the mass contract ending that I would need to do something else.

223

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And the other part of this guy's business was a family business with bakery equipment and

like leads and places like that.

224

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And, know, from bakery equipment to running a container in Carpool wasn't really floating

the boat.

225

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So I started contacting people.

226

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and saying, you know, looking for something and gosh, I think I'd messaged him four months

before.

227

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And then he just sent me that out the blue.

228

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Work called me and I did, had a Skype interview, accepted, didn't even meet them in

person.

229

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Flew to Copenhagen for a month for orienteering.

230

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And then in September flew out to Kandahar and ran a team of 50 on an active war base,

army base in the water.

231

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It's quite interesting because I'm sitting here going, have no reference point for this

life you've lived.

232

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I I can't imagine what that is like.

233

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So tell us a little bit about what it's like being on an active army base, for an example.

234

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fascinating.

235

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I found it fascinating and I had post the divorce, I knew I wanted to do something like

this and I knew that within the timeframe of my life, this was my opportunity.

236

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So I just went for it.

237

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I live very much with as very little in life that's irreversible.

238

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And so I went for it.

239

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And I so landed and I was on rotation.

240

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So I was there for nine, 10 weeks at a time with uh a two, three week break.

241

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and in between.

242

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It's very odd.

243

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You are within the wire, so there's a wire perimeter around you.

244

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You are an active target because it's a single runway, but it's the single busiest runway

in the world.

245

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And it's all the supply chain that comes into the region goes through that base.

246

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It has a massive drone center.

247

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And so in the time when drones were becoming quite sophisticated,

248

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And I mean, we're little drones too, enormous drones.

249

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And so we were a target, but also it was a bit of an extracted reality because you were

only within this perimeter.

250

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You saw the same people all the time.

251

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You go to the cafeteria to eat, you drive down the same few roads.

252

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Everyone knows who you are.

253

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Everyone knows what your movements are, where you've been.

254

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As a woman, I was, I think, 2 % of the population.

255

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As a blonde, there were two of us on base.

256

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At its height, there were 35,000 people on base.

257

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And so, yeah, was, I mean, it was fascinating.

258

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would, it was also a very selfish time for me.

259

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So I would, well, all I did was eat, sleep, work, and work out.

260

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And I made a...

261

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sort of pledged vow to myself that I wasn't going to get involved with anyone.

262

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I was going to have a break.

263

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I was going to have some time off.

264

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And it was so peaceful because I didn't have to think about anyone else apart from me.

265

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And I was there, you know, by the nature of it, I was in the office six days a week, but

everyone knew who I was.

266

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And that's not just

267

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knew who I was, everyone knew who everyone was.

268

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And so you're on all the time.

269

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If you've got a rocket attack, you're in a bunker at two o'clock in the morning with your

team, having to deal with them.

270

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You you share the ablutions and I ran the mortuary and the construction business and the

gym.

271

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You know, I'd have the mortuary manager having a shower next to me, asking me about shift

rotations at 10 o'clock at night when I'm just trying to have a shower.

272

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But

273

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It was super selfish at that time and actually a perfect timing for what I'd gone through

and what I wanted to explore and do.

274

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I absolutely loved it.

275

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It was great.

276

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The way that you use the word selfish juxtapositioned with I was also managing a mortuary

and I was a target.

277

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It's such an interesting kind of concept because you know to the average person that isn't

a selfish thing it was quite a selfless thing to put yourself in that space for the

278

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for other people, you're providing such a light, literally a lifeline.

279

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And international conflict is something that unfortunately we're going to see more more

of, isn't it?

280

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So, wow, I mean, I'm just blown away by that.

281

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I just think it's such an amazing kind of trajectory that you've had in this movement then

that we're talking about, this unexpectedness in the movement.

282

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What do you think it has given you?

283

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What gifts has that given you?

284

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It's given me a lot of confidence in that it's allowed me to, it's put me, I've put myself

into situations that are not the norm.

285

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And with that sort of mantra that I have, that very little in life is irreversible, I

think it shows me time and time again that at tricky times I can do it.

286

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I can.

287

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take that stance, I can do a job, I can do a task, I can do what needs to be done.

288

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And that confidence, you know, and it also gives me a little boost.

289

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It's not often that I sit back and get the chance to talk about this, so thank you.

290

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But it's a reminder that I had, you I was alive before dropping children off at the school

gate and taking them to football training.

291

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There's extra there and it's, yeah, I think it's given me a confidence and strength that I

can do things if needed.

292

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It is, I hear that in your voice.

293

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It's such a lovely gift to have been given.

294

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I'm sure there's been challenges and we'll get to that, but there's something

psychologically that is just sitting with me at the moment, which is when you study

295

00:23:37,472 --> 00:23:47,471

psychology, one of the first things we learn is about child development and there's a

psychologist called Piaget and his work, you know, it might not always hold true, but he

296

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was the person who came up with this idea that we have schemas.

297

00:23:50,836 --> 00:23:53,078

in our head of how the world is supposed to be.

298

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When you have a toddler, sometimes we download those apps that say, your toddler is now

going through this phase and now, you know, there's a reprogramming of the brain and a new

299

00:24:02,966 --> 00:24:03,467

schema.

300

00:24:03,467 --> 00:24:08,671

And, know, it's that thing where a child's world suddenly becomes bigger than them.

301

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Although we shift from either being the center of our own universe to being the center of

somebody else's space, et cetera.

302

00:24:16,238 --> 00:24:19,700

And it's just this interesting thing that I wonder then.

303

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how these shifting schemas of culture and community and being an outsider in Hong Kong

sometimes and feeling that you weren't quite of one culture or the other, finding

304

00:24:31,309 --> 00:24:43,053

community, creating community as a PT and then going and sitting and putting yourself into

a very rigid community, know, being on an army base, that is a rigid community.

305

00:24:43,053 --> 00:24:46,146

So it's just very interesting to me as a psychologist that

306

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this kind of schematic of world is constantly shifting and changing and you're saying,

yeah, it brings resilience, it brings confidence.

307

00:24:55,934 --> 00:24:58,818

What about the downside?

308

00:24:58,818 --> 00:25:01,801

I mean, you say that there's very little that's irreversible.

309

00:25:01,801 --> 00:25:11,549

So would suggest to me that perhaps you're less full of regret, but is there anything that

you wish hadn't happened in the way that it's happened or something that's made you

310

00:25:11,549 --> 00:25:12,920

different that...

311

00:25:13,250 --> 00:25:14,476

you're regretful about.

312

00:25:14,476 --> 00:25:16,838

don't think I hold too much regret.

313

00:25:16,838 --> 00:25:25,256

think I, when I was younger, suppose, regret is something that comes with a benefit of

hindsight.

314

00:25:25,316 --> 00:25:34,934

So I think at the time that every choice I've made, I made that choice at that time

because I felt it was the right choice.

315

00:25:34,934 --> 00:25:35,812

Mm.

316

00:25:35,812 --> 00:25:39,264

And I think regret is something that comes with hindsight.

317

00:25:39,264 --> 00:25:43,545

You think, I shouldn't have done this, I shouldn't have done I should have done that a

little bit differently.

318

00:25:43,545 --> 00:25:46,967

And it then becomes a learning point.

319

00:25:47,107 --> 00:25:55,273

But I don't sit and think of huge regret and reflect on it that way, because I do think at

the time it was the right thing for me.

320

00:25:55,273 --> 00:25:57,925

And that's why I made those decisions and choices.

321

00:25:57,925 --> 00:25:59,155

I think it's amazing.

322

00:25:59,155 --> 00:26:03,089

I've loved hearing about that kind of trajectory.

323

00:26:03,089 --> 00:26:14,381

then, take us from the point at which obviously you were abroad, you were on an active

site, and then there's a point in time when you're back in the UK and that's the launch of

324

00:26:14,381 --> 00:26:15,720

your business.

325

00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,452

So what's happening in between there?

326

00:26:17,452 --> 00:26:26,532

So I went to Kandahar in 2013 and at the end of 2014 the troop drawdown happened.

327

00:26:26,532 --> 00:26:29,912

So I knew that the NATO contracts were coming to a close.

328

00:26:30,172 --> 00:26:43,832

Within that time I had been on shore leave and came back here and post my divorce a friend

of mine said, why don't you download Tinder?

329

00:26:43,980 --> 00:26:59,800

and I said don't be ridiculous it's a cheap tour app but then I got bored and downloaded

tinder and um met this chap who was too busy dating to see me but before I went back out

330

00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:13,960

and then because obviously it wasn't from my afghan radius um but went um back out and we

chatted on whatsapp for 10 weeks and then I met him and he then got posted to Hong Kong

331

00:27:13,999 --> 00:27:14,356

So.

332

00:27:14,356 --> 00:27:20,441

he called me after two weeks of knowing him in person and said, will you join me in Hong

Kong?

333

00:27:20,441 --> 00:27:23,383

Now going back to the there's very little in life that's irreversible.

334

00:27:23,383 --> 00:27:34,584

I knew at end of 14 that I would need to look for a job and I would either go back to

London and back to my place or I could go back to Hong Kong and I could work there.

335

00:27:34,584 --> 00:27:35,432

I had friends there.

336

00:27:35,432 --> 00:27:39,735

I knew Hong Kong and give it a go with this chat.

337

00:27:39,875 --> 00:27:41,436

So I said yes.

338

00:27:41,531 --> 00:27:46,702

So I went back to Hong Kong and moved there at the end of 14, very end of 14.

339

00:27:46,702 --> 00:27:51,525

And we ended up getting engaged, married and had our first baby there.

340

00:27:51,525 --> 00:27:55,088

that it was his job that brought us back from Hong Kong to London.

341

00:27:55,088 --> 00:28:00,793

And we didn't feel that we had really done all of the time we wanted to in Hong Kong.

342

00:28:00,793 --> 00:28:04,655

We were, we were of plucked from Hong Kong too early through the job.

343

00:28:04,655 --> 00:28:07,479

He didn't feel he could say no to the move.

344

00:28:07,479 --> 00:28:08,890

back to London.

345

00:28:09,251 --> 00:28:16,797

So we came back to London and again that was a real heartache for me, was leaving Hong

Kong.

346

00:28:16,822 --> 00:28:19,591

How old was your child at the time?

347

00:28:19,945 --> 00:28:21,030

Five months.

348

00:28:21,186 --> 00:28:23,869

Wow, wow.

349

00:28:23,869 --> 00:28:34,610

that period of time, I mean, your business is very much about supporting mothers during

those early, but that first five months, your support network is everything at that five

350

00:28:34,610 --> 00:28:34,961

months.

351

00:28:34,961 --> 00:28:36,373

So, yeah.

352

00:28:36,373 --> 00:28:45,561

So came back here, didn't like want to be here at all and was quite upset and the plan

always was to go back to Hong Kong.

353

00:28:45,561 --> 00:28:52,528

I was due to go back to work and ended up in a court case with them.

354

00:28:52,869 --> 00:28:56,553

So I didn't go back to work and then also found out I was pregnant again.

355

00:28:56,553 --> 00:28:57,513

So...

356

00:28:57,541 --> 00:29:01,806

then had our second and 2020 was going to be our year.

357

00:29:01,806 --> 00:29:04,109

So he resigned in January.

358

00:29:04,109 --> 00:29:06,931

We gave notice on our place.

359

00:29:06,931 --> 00:29:11,265

We had all our things packed for long-term storage to be shipped to Hong Kong.

360

00:29:11,265 --> 00:29:17,262

with a plan was six months in France and then October 2020 we were going to go back.

361

00:29:17,262 --> 00:29:24,249

Of course, in 2020 we had this international unexpected event.

362

00:29:25,171 --> 00:29:26,472

We had COVID.

363

00:29:27,186 --> 00:29:34,978

We had no job, no house, no things, a car, a trailer, two children and a dog.

364

00:29:34,978 --> 00:29:37,441

And our youngest wasn't even one.

365

00:29:37,618 --> 00:29:38,231

Wow

366

00:29:38,231 --> 00:29:42,039

So and the dog had come with us from Hong Kong by the way to London.

367

00:29:42,039 --> 00:29:43,514

368

00:29:43,514 --> 00:29:44,216

at that point?

369

00:29:44,216 --> 00:29:46,464

What was going through your head at that point?

370

00:29:46,464 --> 00:29:47,563

I...

371

00:29:47,563 --> 00:29:51,765

Personally, it was tricky because our relationship wasn't in place.

372

00:29:51,765 --> 00:29:58,328

But as a whole, I thought France is not that far, it's not that bad.

373

00:29:58,328 --> 00:30:01,950

And like all of us, didn't think COVID would drag on as long as it did.

374

00:30:01,950 --> 00:30:07,714

And so I was really doubting about going to France because of the state of our

relationship.

375

00:30:07,714 --> 00:30:08,273

And...

376

00:30:08,273 --> 00:30:17,806

but went with it and we ended up being stuck here, stayed in a friend's place for two

months and then when they opened the border to France we drove and made it to France.

377

00:30:18,106 --> 00:30:22,667

But then Covid kept rumbling on and we kept extending.

378

00:30:22,667 --> 00:30:28,409

His reasoning was we haven't got a job to go to, we haven't got to be there.

379

00:30:28,709 --> 00:30:35,611

Here in France we've got lots of space, know, we rented, people wanted to rent places

because no one was renting anything.

380

00:30:35,767 --> 00:30:40,238

And so we had a place in Provence, we moved all over France, by the way.

381

00:30:40,238 --> 00:30:46,478

And, but the last, we stayed in one place for 10 months and that had an olive orchard in

the garden.

382

00:30:46,478 --> 00:30:52,998

And, you know, was in the middle of, we just hiked everywhere and it was a very fit COVID

for us.

383

00:30:53,318 --> 00:31:02,458

And we then, that Christmas 2020, Hong Kong put quarantine in place.

384

00:31:02,787 --> 00:31:06,229

And that really was the point where we were not going back to Hong Kong.

385

00:31:06,229 --> 00:31:15,092

And I, yes, I wanted to go back to Hong Kong, but I knew that I couldn't go back to Hong

Kong in the familial setup that we had.

386

00:31:16,112 --> 00:31:22,256

Whilst I've had a lot of change and I don't like change, my partner didn't deal with

change very well.

387

00:31:22,256 --> 00:31:25,841

And so I thought, right, I can't.

388

00:31:25,841 --> 00:31:33,081

cannot go to Hong Kong, plus I can't do three weeks in a hotel room with the four of us

where you can't even open a window because not all four of us would leave.

389

00:31:33,081 --> 00:31:37,081

It was not a good spot to be in.

390

00:31:37,121 --> 00:31:49,501

So after staying in France and things started opening up in France a bit more and we've

gone to a playground and that for me was a real turning point because my two littles had

391

00:31:49,501 --> 00:31:51,301

had each other, thankfully.

392

00:31:51,569 --> 00:32:04,005

and but a play group had gone to the playground and there were little children and my

tutor stopped and stared like there's other little people in this world.

393

00:32:04,005 --> 00:32:14,539

know my eldest has been to nursery and done all the groups and all of that so he had still

memories of that but my youngest had no concept of that and I thought right we need to get

394

00:32:14,539 --> 00:32:16,831

back to civilization and so

395

00:32:16,831 --> 00:32:28,281

My tenants gave notice and with that I took back the council tax and with that I applied

to the schools locally and we got a spot so that dragged us back to London and I was very

396

00:32:28,281 --> 00:32:39,609

grateful to come back to London at that point and so where we got back in 21 and have been

here since I applied for jobs and kept getting down to the last two and it never quite

397

00:32:39,609 --> 00:32:40,660

working.

398

00:32:40,696 --> 00:32:50,361

And I've had this idea percolating and then I met this mum who had a similar idea and just

that sort of was the catalyst and we went for it.

399

00:32:50,271 --> 00:33:00,886

Before we get back to the conversation, a quick note, if you enjoy these kinds of

psychological reflections about work and identity, you might like my reflection room.

400

00:33:00,886 --> 00:33:03,247

This is the group coaching space.

401

00:33:03,287 --> 00:33:13,052

The doors are open right now and over the next few months, we'll be running three live

workshops on dealing with rejection, imposter phenomenon, and managing multiple identities

402

00:33:13,052 --> 00:33:14,112

at work.

403

00:33:14,172 --> 00:33:15,679

If that sounds useful.

404

00:33:15,679 --> 00:33:22,036

You can find all of the details at leelaange.co.uk forward slash reflection room.

405

00:33:22,036 --> 00:33:23,667

Now back to the episode.

406

00:33:24,975 --> 00:33:31,189

And what stands out for me there is just the contrast then of the two arrivals into the

UK.

407

00:33:31,189 --> 00:33:43,626

That first one, well three actually, so you've left Hong Kong and you've come to the UK

previously as a younger person and it's been that massive culture shock.

408

00:33:43,667 --> 00:33:49,050

But then interestingly, the second time that you come back to the UK, it's...

409

00:33:49,098 --> 00:34:00,373

feels warmer, it feels like that's familiarity to you, that's you came back to something

that you knew what to expect and and that's interesting isn't it that change is disruptive

410

00:34:00,373 --> 00:34:03,737

but it's either familiar or unfamiliar.

411

00:34:03,889 --> 00:34:16,954

Yeah, absolutely and I think that framework of knowledge and simple things like you know

where to go for a dentist appointment, you know where to take you, where the doctor is for

412

00:34:16,954 --> 00:34:18,084

your child.

413

00:34:18,344 --> 00:34:25,266

Knowing where that is, coming back into that was a comfort and a thought and worry less.

414

00:34:25,266 --> 00:34:32,246

There's so much in terms of planning and logistics that's a good thing I'm basically a

project manager at heart that

415

00:34:32,246 --> 00:34:40,529

all that I can do but it does having own awareness and knowledge of that gives a great

comfort to come back to.

416

00:34:40,529 --> 00:34:55,204

So I'm interested to explore in this season, obviously expect the unexpected, but how has

that changed your outlook on life as we scan forward in the horizon?

417

00:34:55,204 --> 00:34:58,957

Are you a planner or do you live year by year?

418

00:34:58,957 --> 00:35:01,818

I'm kind of interested where your focus is.

419

00:35:02,642 --> 00:35:06,661

I am a planner and so I'm very...

420

00:35:06,661 --> 00:35:07,822

in my...

421

00:35:07,822 --> 00:35:14,142

doesn't feel like it at the moment just because things are so busy but in my life I'm very

organised so I have...

422

00:35:14,142 --> 00:35:19,822

I do all the admin for example in the house, all the paperwork, all the bills, the like

insurances and all of that.

423

00:35:19,822 --> 00:35:22,542

That's all my sort of part.

424

00:35:22,810 --> 00:35:33,050

And so I do plan that and I do have that in mind moving forward, you know, already

thinking, okay, the boys are at this age, do they need a tutor at some point?

425

00:35:33,050 --> 00:35:35,122

What are the next stages for schools?

426

00:35:35,122 --> 00:35:37,754

Where do we need to get to for all of this to happen?

427

00:35:37,754 --> 00:35:40,619

And where, you know, how does that pan out?

428

00:35:40,619 --> 00:35:50,030

keep thinking about scenarios, how to work around them and have a little bit of a

structure so that things don't come at me from left field and it's like branches come out

429

00:35:50,030 --> 00:35:52,300

of nowhere and it's like, what am going to do?

430

00:35:52,300 --> 00:35:54,022

So I am very much of a planner.

431

00:35:54,022 --> 00:35:57,304

When things get chucked in there...

432

00:35:57,542 --> 00:36:08,261

it does and can send me for a bit of a tiz and I get a bit of sort of nervous angst to

deal with it but then once I've worked it through and it takes me a little while to

433

00:36:08,261 --> 00:36:16,788

process but when I have worked it through then I feel comfortable with that level of sort

of requirement again and then move forward with it.

434

00:36:17,243 --> 00:36:28,169

So what you're describing now, I love this, is this kind of like this wave that as change

comes up, it is a wave, you still feel all of the expected human emotions when unexpected

435

00:36:28,169 --> 00:36:29,620

changes happen.

436

00:36:29,620 --> 00:36:36,533

But there's that settling into period where you take that breath and you think it through

and you work through it that's sustaining you.

437

00:36:36,533 --> 00:36:38,663

And that's resilience, isn't it?

438

00:36:38,663 --> 00:36:45,046

That's what we're describing as a real benefit of all of this movement and unexpectedness

in your life is.

439

00:36:45,084 --> 00:36:48,587

it's created a framework of resilience for you.

440

00:36:48,587 --> 00:36:52,881

Yeah, I'm not looking at it like that, but yes, yeah, it does actually.

441

00:36:52,881 --> 00:36:53,802

Thank you.

442

00:36:53,802 --> 00:36:55,084

Thank you for helping me.

443

00:36:55,084 --> 00:37:00,348

hearing you talk about, well, that's happened before and nothing is undoable.

444

00:37:00,348 --> 00:37:03,880

Just the language you use is just very interesting.

445

00:37:03,880 --> 00:37:09,475

And it is very curious to me that there's this kind of, well, I'll just move on with that

and I can move forward.

446

00:37:09,475 --> 00:37:22,383

Yeah, yeah, and I think also, you know, being in relationships and, you know, sort of

serious relationships and then ending as well and knowing that there's a great unknown out

447

00:37:22,383 --> 00:37:22,624

there.

448

00:37:22,624 --> 00:37:25,317

I don't know what that's going to look like and what that's going to happen.

449

00:37:25,317 --> 00:37:26,107

But

450

00:37:26,142 --> 00:37:37,516

If I look back, I know that if it happens, then I will sell pots in a pottery shop, or I

will do PT on a common, or, you know, I can do these things and I will do these things and

451

00:37:37,516 --> 00:37:47,491

I will keep going and I will survive as so such and get to the point where it'll hit a new

point where I can thrive rather than just survive.

452

00:37:47,491 --> 00:37:57,328

So let me ask a question then, because obviously the roles that you've had and certainly

some of the international roles, you've been very much, what you were describing, even at

453

00:37:57,328 --> 00:38:01,811

10pm at night, stood in the showers next to somebody and providing support and advice.

454

00:38:01,811 --> 00:38:09,756

You are the keeper, the looker after, the organiser, and you describe that in your current

admin in the home, that type of thing.

455

00:38:09,756 --> 00:38:11,808

Who looks after Femke?

456

00:38:11,808 --> 00:38:12,253

Yeah.

457

00:38:12,253 --> 00:38:14,442

Yeah, not so much me.

458

00:38:14,706 --> 00:38:15,847

I...

459

00:38:15,847 --> 00:38:16,749

what do I do?

460

00:38:16,749 --> 00:38:17,409

I...

461

00:38:17,409 --> 00:38:18,549

I do...

462

00:38:18,549 --> 00:38:19,214

I love reading.

463

00:38:19,214 --> 00:38:21,536

Exercise is a real mainstay for me.

464

00:38:21,536 --> 00:38:29,021

If I haven't had the exercise, it becomes that split, so I haven't got the time to

exercise, but I know if I don't exercise then...

465

00:38:29,143 --> 00:38:32,646

and so exercise is a big one for me.

466

00:38:32,646 --> 00:38:34,106

And friends as well.

467

00:38:34,106 --> 00:38:35,304

I have a good...

468

00:38:35,304 --> 00:38:38,886

have a good solid group of friends who...

469

00:38:39,195 --> 00:38:41,227

are there through everything with me.

470

00:38:41,227 --> 00:38:43,028

I'm a great communicator.

471

00:38:43,028 --> 00:38:48,236

I often over communicate and probably bore lots of people, but I share a lot.

472

00:38:48,236 --> 00:38:56,712

I share a lot and you know, you have friends that don't share very much and they keep it

themselves to themselves, but I do share a lot about what's going on and what's happening

473

00:38:56,712 --> 00:39:00,226

and I find that's quite important for me.

474

00:39:00,226 --> 00:39:01,375

So.

475

00:39:01,527 --> 00:39:07,087

But in terms of, so I think, yeah, the friends would be there for me and the exercise

would be there for me.

476

00:39:07,291 --> 00:39:09,372

And you've developed a community as well.

477

00:39:09,372 --> 00:39:14,906

So you've kind of got this care of community of care that you're doing through the Merigo

Ground Club.

478

00:39:14,906 --> 00:39:16,126

it's interesting, isn't it?

479

00:39:16,126 --> 00:39:22,273

How, you know, we can, so there's the term, so we used to talk about the world being

480

00:39:22,273 --> 00:39:28,689

my book are so volatile and the new word is banny, so brittle, anxious or whatever.

481

00:39:28,689 --> 00:39:36,655

But it strikes me that when we use acronyms for things rather than talking them through,

we're not dealing with the emotion.

482

00:39:36,655 --> 00:39:43,563

And I mentioned that on a podcast episode in my previous season when I was talking about

sustainability.

483

00:39:43,563 --> 00:39:50,551

And there's something really interesting as you're speaking, which is just how you

sustained and it's not an endure.

484

00:39:50,551 --> 00:39:56,231

And that feels different again, know, enduring things and sustaining things are two very

different ways of living.

485

00:39:56,231 --> 00:39:59,411

Sustaining feels like you're moving through it with choice.

486

00:39:59,411 --> 00:40:02,271

Enduring feels that things are happening to you.

487

00:40:02,271 --> 00:40:12,302

And yeah, I thought I might leave you with that reflection that what I'm hearing you

describe is a sustainability really, which is at the heart of your business.

488

00:40:12,302 --> 00:40:12,784

Yeah.

489

00:40:12,784 --> 00:40:13,624

Yeah, it does.

490

00:40:13,624 --> 00:40:30,504

comes full circle that, yeah, that sustainability of support, community, and whilst we're

providing the kit, which is the cornerstone of it, it's that, the physical support of

491

00:40:30,504 --> 00:40:40,024

parents going and caregivers going through a really amazing but tiring and tricky phase of

life.

492

00:40:40,024 --> 00:40:42,757

It's also providing the emotional support

493

00:40:42,757 --> 00:40:48,896

support that comes with that as well and hoping that that continues really.

494

00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:55,272

So your business then, how do people find out about it and who is it actually for and

where is it?

495

00:40:55,272 --> 00:40:59,069

Is geographically across the UK or is it in certain towns?

496

00:40:59,278 --> 00:41:09,397

Yeah so at merry-go-round is at merry-go-round club that's how you can find us that's also

our socials merry-go-round club one in one

497

00:41:09,397 --> 00:41:13,237

We are a baby equipment rental service.

498

00:41:13,517 --> 00:41:18,417

we provide kit for children 0 to up to 4 really.

499

00:41:18,617 --> 00:41:22,697

And we have travel rentals, which are two week rentals.

500

00:41:22,697 --> 00:41:30,997

So you can rent a travel buggy or a travel cot or a carrier or backpack carrier or things

like that that you need for a short period.

501

00:41:31,057 --> 00:41:34,337

Otherwise we do monthly rentals and they're flexible.

502

00:41:34,337 --> 00:41:38,997

So you can rent for six months and decide actually, you know what this breast pump isn't

working for me.

503

00:41:38,997 --> 00:41:39,381

I want to

504

00:41:39,381 --> 00:41:45,695

it back and you know we'll take it back or you rent it for two and think this is brilliant

I want it for another sex and that's fine too.

505

00:41:45,695 --> 00:41:50,315

We do carrier bundles, so one size does not fit all.

506

00:41:50,795 --> 00:42:00,235

we, so we have three carriers you can rent for a month and then either decide to keep

renting that or make an informed purchase decision.

507

00:42:00,295 --> 00:42:01,695

And we have newborn bundles.

508

00:42:01,695 --> 00:42:05,435

So we rent seven key things that you need for the first six months.

509

00:42:05,435 --> 00:42:07,255

We deliver it all in one go.

510

00:42:07,255 --> 00:42:12,215

And then after six months, your little one's grown out of it and we take it all off you

again.

511

00:42:12,275 --> 00:42:12,926

So that.

512

00:42:12,926 --> 00:42:26,747

And we also provide, we're also a maternity paternity benefit provider for the likes of

WPP, HSBC, a household name I'm not allowed to mention, but we cover 100,000 employees

513

00:42:26,747 --> 00:42:28,129

through those three companies.

514

00:42:28,129 --> 00:42:30,810

and we deliver all over the UK.

515

00:42:30,810 --> 00:42:42,463

So we are at the behest of DPD, but if it's local to me, then you get me showing up on

your doorstep because I still like to see the customers and get some feedback from them

516

00:42:42,463 --> 00:42:45,754

and create a rapport and going back to that support.

517

00:42:45,754 --> 00:42:50,876

And, you know, I've, I've opened the door to a mum who's, you know,

518

00:42:51,220 --> 00:43:00,163

Leaking, I've opened the door to a mum who just crumbled in my arms and burst into tears

and sort of helped scoop her up and things like that.

519

00:43:00,163 --> 00:43:01,844

I was just glad.

520

00:43:01,844 --> 00:43:05,582

And I think the reason the business was there was to help people like that.

521

00:43:05,582 --> 00:43:15,350

And, you know, if I could help provide her some support in that time and that moment, and

then that really makes what we're doing extra worthwhile.

522

00:43:15,350 --> 00:43:16,785

And so.

523

00:43:16,785 --> 00:43:18,636

Yeah, that's who we are and what we do.

524

00:43:18,636 --> 00:43:21,337

And we are two this month.

525

00:43:24,016 --> 00:43:31,099

And we are about to start raising so that we can expand what we're doing just to greater

volumes for more people.

526

00:43:31,099 --> 00:43:32,469

So yeah, we're raising.

527

00:43:32,469 --> 00:43:35,971

So you'll hear more about that on socials and things.

528

00:43:35,971 --> 00:43:38,182

that's who we are and where we are.

529

00:43:38,364 --> 00:43:40,224

Wow, it's such amazing.

530

00:43:40,224 --> 00:43:46,066

I've got a very soft spot for maternal mental health.

531

00:43:46,066 --> 00:44:00,792

I sit on an advisory group for a CIC in Derbyshire and that's as a result of some work I

did setting up a psychologically informed maternal mental health service during Covid.

532

00:44:00,930 --> 00:44:05,354

maternal and paternal mental health is such an important thing.

533

00:44:05,354 --> 00:44:13,512

And it is about community and it is, you know, about being connected I'm really, really

intrigued by everything that you're doing.

534

00:44:13,512 --> 00:44:15,593

the backstory, wow.

535

00:44:15,651 --> 00:44:17,881

Yeah, thank you.

536

00:44:19,422 --> 00:44:21,943

You're not the first to say that.

537

00:44:23,203 --> 00:44:24,714

Which is very flattering.

538

00:44:24,714 --> 00:44:28,625

Yeah, I mean, it's interesting at some point.

539

00:44:28,625 --> 00:44:32,267

Hopefully my children will find it interesting too when they realise.

540

00:44:32,267 --> 00:44:42,359

Yeah, I mean, it's I mean, I've loved I've loved the majority of it and the experiences

that it's given me and, you know, some of the things I can share and yeah.

541

00:44:42,359 --> 00:44:49,652

But I will say, sorry, just going back to the merry-go-round, we also have a section of it

that I'm trying to develop, which is called the Kind Initiative.

542

00:44:49,652 --> 00:44:55,113

And so the word kind in Dutch is kind, and that means child.

543

00:44:55,354 --> 00:44:58,394

So it's like the Kind Child Initiative.

544

00:44:58,395 --> 00:45:03,466

And I'm trying to get the system to do a pay it forward thing.

545

00:45:03,466 --> 00:45:06,487

So when people rent, they can pay it forward.

546

00:45:06,487 --> 00:45:12,302

And that money will go into a pot and that will provide kit for parents in need.

547

00:45:12,302 --> 00:45:15,524

Because I just really think that every child deserves a good start.

548

00:45:15,524 --> 00:45:23,331

And we've done something locally here through the church actually, because they couldn't

afford it but desperately needed something.

549

00:45:23,331 --> 00:45:30,428

And so that's something I am trying to grow and develop as well alongside all the

commercial stuff.

550

00:45:30,759 --> 00:45:33,739

Wow, I love that, I love that idea.

551

00:45:33,739 --> 00:45:35,699

It's just so much needed as well.

552

00:45:35,699 --> 00:45:40,599

And there's so many people out there who find it such a discombobulating time.

553

00:45:40,599 --> 00:45:42,722

I count myself in that.

554

00:45:42,722 --> 00:45:45,562

Femke, it's been an absolute delight to have you on.

555

00:45:45,562 --> 00:45:52,374

I have loved hearing about your story, your unexpected moment.

556

00:45:52,374 --> 00:45:57,174

and all of this movement and you know adversity as well.

557

00:45:57,174 --> 00:45:59,655

I think there's some real life lessons in there.

558

00:45:59,655 --> 00:46:02,430

Yeah, well it's working for me so far.

559

00:46:05,531 --> 00:46:06,696

That's all for today.

560

00:46:06,696 --> 00:46:11,331

You've been listening to Psychologically Speaking with me, Leela Ainge.