Matt Edmundson: Welcome to this week's Crowd Church service.
We are a digital church on a quest to discover how Jesus helps
us live a more meaningful life.
We are a community, a space to explore the Christian faith and a place
where you can contribute and grow.
Our service, uh, will last about an hour and in a few seconds you'll
meet our hosts, uh, for our service, who will introduce today's talk.
After the talk, we will have a time of worship and reflection, after which we
head into Conversation Street, where we look at your stories and questions
that you've posted in the comments.
Now, we want to invite you to connect with us here at Crowd Church, and we've got a
few ways in which you can do just that.
Firstly, you can engage with Crowd from any device during our live
stream, and if you're up for it.
Why not invite a few friends over and experience the service together?
You see, church is all about connecting with God and connecting with others.
And one of the easiest ways for you to do that is join one of our
midweek groups where we meet online together to catch up and discover
more about the amazingness of Christ.
You can also subscribe to our fairly new podcast called What's the Story,
uh, where we deep dive into stories of faith and courage from everyday people.
More information about all of these things can be found on
our website at www.crowd.church.
Or you can reach out to us on social media at Crowd Church.
If you are new to Crowd or new to the Christian Faith and would like to
know what your next steps to take off.
Well why not head over to our website, www.crowd.church/next for more details.
And now the moment you've been waiting for is here.
Our Online Church Service starts right now.
Well.
Good evening and welcome to Crowd Church Online.
My name is Matt, and beside me is the beautiful Anna Kettle.
Anna, how are we doing this evening?
Anna Kettle: I'm good.
Thank you.
Yeah, happy to be here.
Matt Edmundson: Ah, yeah, this evening, everyone.
Happy Sunday evening.
Now, do forgive me, uh, ladies and gentlemen, for the very croaky voice.
Uh, let's just be grateful.
I actually have one, uh, tonight, . It's one of those, isn't it?
I'm trying my best, uh, Barry White impression.
So we'll do the detail.
Anna Kettle: Some people would say it's a benefit that Matt can't talk for, you
know, then I'd be like talking myself.
So maybe, maybe not.
I'm not sure.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's very, very true actually.
It, uh, it could be classed as a benefit, uh, but you just never know, right?
So one of the things that we are wanting to do, ladies and gentlemen,
if you are watching this, Hey, Matt.
Hey Miriam.
Great to see you in the comments, um, in the facebook channel we have
put a link to the YouTube channel and we are asking if you would mind
coming and joining us on YouTube.
Over the next few weeks, we will be transitioning, uh, from Facebook.
We will be moving to a YouTube only stream, and we're gonna
test and see how that goes.
Uh, it may change in the new year, but until for the rest of the year,
we all shift to new, uh, to YouTube.
Just an experiment, just to see how it goes.
So, uh, if you could come join us on YouTube, write your comments and say,
how's it in YouTube, that would be great.
As I said, the link is in the comments.
Uh, yes, Matt, I am ill, I just, my, I didn't wake up one day and just sort of
think, oh, I'll talk with a deep voice.
It's, um, it's not something that I did.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Uh, but let's be grateful.
Like I say, I've actually got a voice.
Um, we have, uh, how's your weekend been Anna?
Anna Kettle: It's been good actually.
Yeah, we haven't done too much.
It's been quite a relaxed one.
Um, had, yeah, some had a friend's party this afternoon, went to Oh, nice.
Out for food with some friends, which was nice and relaxing.
Went to church this morning.
Um, yeah, just done some nice family stuff together this weekend.
It's just, yeah, just been kind of a quiet one, which is nice sometimes
to just slow it down a bit, isn't it?
What about you, you've been recovering from illness or,
Matt Edmundson: uh, no.
Well, yes.
Sorry.
Yes.
I have been recovering from illness.
It was funny.
Last week I had to do, like, on Thursday, I had a, my voice was
slightly deeper than it is now.
I am slowly getting better.
Um, but I had to do a whole bunch of, uh, recordings.
So podcasting, um, video stuff.
I mean, just a whole bunch of stuff happened.
Yeah.
And, uh, on every single one of them, I just said this and I'm really sorry, uh.
I'm just, it's just the way it is.
This is not my voice.
Uh, and so yeah, I've been recovering, but I've been recovering in St.
Andrews.
So we popped up to St.
Andrews to see Josh, uh, my son, if you're unfamiliar with
who Josh is, Josh is my son.
He wrote the Crowd Church music theme.
Um, and he is at University up in St.
Andrews, up in North Scotland.
Uh, it's about six, seven hours away from Liverpool with the crazy
traffic that we experienced today.
And he's turning 21,
Anna Kettle: so oh, 21.
Happy birthday.
Matt Edmundson: Happy birthday son.
Happy birthday.
Oh, Miriam is now on YouTube.
Excellent.
Matt's like, I hate YouTube.
Matt, you're just gonna have to get over it.
Just get on YouTube, Matt.
Anna Kettle: Some people hate Facebook.
So there's no pleasing everyone is it?
Matt Edmundson: That's very true.
That is very true.
So yeah, if you are just joining the livestream, uh, we are in the, and
you're joining us on Facebook, do come and join us over on YouTube.
The link is in the comments.
Um, over the next few weeks, we will be migrating.
Frontline or Frontline?
Not Frontline Crowd.
Just get the right church man.
Uh, we will be migrating Crowd Church over to YouTube only.
So do come join us on YouTube if you can.
The link is in the comments.
Miriam is over there now.
Uh, lemme just write in here.
Hey, Miriam, spelling her name, right?
Sorry about that.
Uh, she's joined on YouTube, so it's great.
Come join us on there.
Come say how's it, in the comments, it'd be great to see you now.
Anna.
What's happening today?
So
Anna Kettle: today we've got your beautiful wife, Sharon speaking to us.
Oh yes.
Carrying on a series that we've been on the gospels and, um, yeah, we've got
worship coming up and then we'll have conversations street, which is a chance
for everyone to ask their questions, post their questions on their comments.
So do be thinking about that and posting as we're sort of listening to the talk.
Yeah.
And yeah, and just then general feedback and chat from me and Matt.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
I, I always enjoy the, um, the Conversation Street.
I do.
I I do.
I think it's great fun.
Anna Kettle: Well, I think we're both talkers, right, Matt?
So like we could just like, talk on and give us any subject we could.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, any topic.
And we we're gone.
We, uh, yeah, we'll be gone.
So
Anna Kettle: it's much better if other people put their comments in.
So just have opinions.
So please everyone just, you know, add your comments and.
And opinions.
Otherwise it's just me and Matt, which is boring for everyone.
I hope.
Matt Edmundson: Wow.
Uh, I actually think you're quite interesting.
Anna.
Oh, thanks Matt.
Yeah.
And so No, no, don't, don't, don't say you're boring.
It's totally not true.
Uh, share the love with Anna in the comment.
Tell her she's not boring.
Uh, and uh, so
Anna Kettle: I'm not saying I'm boring.
I just think it's, it's more interesting if everyone has something to say.
Matt Edmundson: That's very true.
That I agree with actually.
I think the more the merrier, they comment
Anna Kettle: More the merrier.
Exactly.
More interesting.
We're democratic here, aren't we?
Matt Edmundson: Is that what we are?
I'm never quite sure if I
That's brilliant.
Yeah.
The Democratic Church of Crowd.
Welcome.
Oh, brilliant.
Absolutely brilliant.
Do you know one of the things I'm really curious about, um, there
is on my, uh, soundboard in front of me this voice digitizer thing
that makes your voice deeper.
So I'm just gonna press it, uh, do it and see what happens.
So, okay, so this makes it, oh, that's better.
Anna Kettle: It like, you've just swallowed helium or something.
Matt Edmundson: It does, yeah.
Don't do the helium thing it's, uh, public.
Anna Kettle: Can it do my voice as well?
Or can it not pick up over the computer?
Matt Edmundson: Uh, no, it, I think it won't do Your, should
start next to you to do that.
Yeah.
I think you need like a proper microphone.
Spoiler alert.
I don't know, actually, I, I think I've told you this, I've
not told on the live stream yet.
Spoiler alert.
We have a new studio being built where we will be able to host Crowd together in
the same room, cuz this room here is tiny.
Um, so yeah, we, we have a, a great sort of project on the go, uh, which will
be finished hopefully in the next few.
I'm hoping by the end of this month.
I think that might be, yeah.
Anna Kettle: And then we'll be like professional rather than
doing it in our own like bedrooms.
Matt Edmundson: Steady on.
Don't.
Anna Kettle: Well yeah, let's not get too far.
More professional than we are today.
People more professional.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
That's, that's not, um, let's not do ourselves too much.
That's really funny.
Professional.
I've never used that word, but we are building a studio and
we'll have some more space.
My deadline is the end of this month.
I think that is optimistic.
I think realistically probably in the new year we'll be streaming from there.
So, um, we'll find out.
Anna Kettle: And then we'll be able to do things like do silly
voices together in the same room.
Matt Edmundson: Absolutely.
That's the plan.
Yeah.
So if you've just joined us and you think, what on earth have I tuned into, uh, this,
uh, believe it or not, we are an online church, so it's great that you are here.
Great.
Um, to be with you on this Very chilly.
Sunday evening, uh, we are now gonna bring on the beautiful Sharon Edmundson,
my gorgeous wife who is carrying on our journey in John's gospel.
After that will be a time of worship.
Then as Anna said, we'll be back for Conversation Street.
Do write your comments and stuff.
Uh, be great to hear from you.
And one last time, if you are on Facebook, there is a link
for our YouTube live streaming.
It'd be great if you could join us on YouTube.
We would love to see you in there as we are migrating, pretty sure,
uh, pretty sure Matt Edmundson is sponsored by YouTube this week, by the
amount of times he's promoted YouTube.
Thanks, Matt.
I should have a YouTube t-shirt.
Uh, so yes.
Brilliant.
Right.
Well, we will see you in YouTube, uh, with the exception of Matt Crew.
Lives can't be bothered.
Uh, and so, um, yeah, we'll be back after this.
Here's Sharon.
Sharon Edmundson: The passage of the Bible we're gonna look at today is from the
book of John chapter 14, verses 1 to 14.
To give you some context for this passage, Jesus is with his friends
celebrating the Passover meal, which is a meal that the Jews celebrate every
year, remembering how God delivered the Jewish people from Egypt, even though
he's their leader, Jesus has washed his friend's feet, which is the role
of a servant, and one of the group has just left in order to betray Jesus.
And Jesus knew that he was being betrayed and was about to face a brutal
death, and that those still present at the meal were about to abandon him
to save their own necks, even though they thought they were brave and up to
everything and giving it all the talk.
Talk about trauma.
They were in for a really bad week where everything they thought they
knew would appear to fall apart.
Have you ever felt like that?
It's in this context that today's, um, passage and the passage just before
it, Jesus is preparing his close friends, his followers, for the dark
time that they're about to go through.
Although his words were originally meant for that specific group of people,
they also speak to us today about handling our own difficult situations.
We'll also look briefly at a couple of questions.
Firstly, is Christianity exclusive or inclusive?
And secondly is the Christian faith, a blind faith, a faith that believes
despite evidence to the contrary?
So how did Jesus prepare his followers for the horror to come?
He said this, do not let your hearts be troubled.
Uh, okay, thanks Jesus for the great advice.
It's okay.
There is more.
You believe in God, believe also in me.
My father's house has many rooms.
If that were not so, would I have told you that I'm going there to prepare a place
for you and if I go and prepare a place for you, I'll come back and take you to be
with me that you also may be where I am.
You know the place that you know the way to the place where I'm going.
He's basically telling them not to let their circumstances or
their troubled feelings have the last say in the situation
because there's a bigger picture.
Now, there are plenty of verses in the Bible that talk about how God's
concerned with the details of our lives.
The Bible says that God cares so much for us that even the
hairs on our heads are numbered.
That is a lot of care, especially in our house where the vacuum cleaner has
a really hard time keeping up with the hairs that keep falling out of our heads.
The Bible also says that we can learn about God's character
through the world that he's made.
Now our eldest son Josh, is studying theoretical physics at university, and
I was talking with him one day about the different branches of physics.
One of them is quantum physics and it deals with the smallest
components of the universe.
And then there's astrophysics, which looks at the bigger picture of the universe.
In quantum physics, we see God's care for the minute details in the
structure of molecules and atoms and in astrophysics we see his care for the
big picture in the awesomeness of our galaxy and beyond and how everything
is fine tuned to work together.
So what's God's big picture in terms of our lives?
It's this, that there's more to life than what we see now.
And there's life after death.
That all the things are that are wrong in the world will be put right.
That we will be able to live with God in an amazing place
that he's prepared for us.
Have you ever felt like the moment you're in as an eternity.
I certainly have.
Maybe you've been waiting for your perfect job or your perfect
partner and nothing's happening.
Maybe you're going through cancer treatment or you've got another
long-term illness, or you've lost someone that you love.
God says, although things on earth can be really tough, a better day is coming.
Even if we get better days on earth, that won't compare to what
God has waiting for us in eternity.
But back to our passage in John.
So how do we get to this place that Jesus is preparing for us?
Thomas, one of the guys who was with him asked the same question.
Thomas said to him, Lord, we don't know where you are going,
so how can we know the way?
Jesus answered I am the way and the truth and the life.
No one comes to the Father except through me.
If you really know me, you will know my father as well.
From now on, you do know him and have seen him.
Jesus is making three claims about himself here.
One, that he's the way, the only way to God, two that he's the
truth, and three that he's the life.
Let's look at those three things, one at a time.
So number one, Jesus says he's the way and that no one comes to
the Father except through him.
But hang on a minute.
Isn't that a bit narrow minded?
Don't all religions lead to God?
Not according to Jesus.
Jesus says he is the only way to God because he's the only one with the
real solution to the real problem.
In this Christianity is exclusive.
It excludes all other possible ways to God.
So what is the problem with the world?
How would you answer that question?
Jesus' disciples might have answered that question by saying, the problem
was that they were an oppressed nation as they were being ruled by the
Romans, and that that was the issue that Jesus should be sorting out.
There are many people today who would say the same thing, not about the
Romans, but that the problem with the world, um, today is oppression.
That one group is oppressing another, that men are oppressing
women, or that one ethnic group is oppressing another, or that parents
are oppressing children and so on.
We all know that uh, oppression is a reality.
I think of a lady I know who came to this country thinking that she had
this great new job opportunity only to find out that when she arrived in
this country, she had her ID papers taken off her by her host family who
made her work for long hours for them.
She wasn't allowed out.
She wasn't allowed to learn the language.
Her new job opportunity was in fact, modern day slavery.
Or we hear about the men who abuse their wives and control everything
that they do or the other way around, and people are discriminated against
because of the color of their skin.
Maybe you've experienced one of these forms of oppression.
Jesus is against oppression.
Psalm nine says this.
He rules the world in righteousness and judges the peoples with equity.
The Lord is a refuge for the oppressed, a stronghold in times of trouble.
The Bible definition of oppression is different to some of the definitions of
oppression that are going around today.
We're not necessarily being oppressed if we're not allowed
to do the things we want to do.
For example, when our kids were younger, they had a limit on the
amount of TV they could watch.
Um, every day.
This rule wasn't popular with them, and it did stop them watching the
amount of TV that they would've liked.
But the rule wasn't there to oppress them.
It was there to help them to learn to have healthy boundaries, and it
was there to help them have a life.
It's one I think I probably need to relearn for myself.
As I've gotten into bad habits during covid and I still haven't kicked the
habit however long later, that is.
Um, we're not also necessarily being oppressed if someone tells
us that our lifestyle is wrong and what they say makes us feel upset.
If a friend of yours was convinced that they'd just met the perfect
man for them, but you knew he was an abusive man, the loving thing to do
would be to warn your friend, even if they didn't like what you had to
say and thought you were interfering.
Love isn't just one dimensional.
It's not just about being patient and kind and all those nice, fluffy things.
It's also about courage and justice and confronting what is wrong.
Proverbs 27 verse 6 says, wounds from a friend can be trusted,
but an enemy multiplies kisses.
But although oppression is a problem in the world, and as we've seen,
God is against genuine oppression.
Jesus could see a deeper problem, not just in one group of people, but in all of us.
That is the fact that we're all lost, we're all spiritually dead, and we're
all disconnected from God, and in that Christianity is very in inclusive.
We're all part of the problem.
We're all included in that.
We may not necessarily be oppressing other people or be what we would
consider the worst people on the planet, but we've all missed God's standard.
We all owe God a debt we can't pay.
I've heard it said many times, how can a loving God send anyone to hell?
But how can a holy God and a just God allow anyone who is unholy into heaven?
CS Lewis, the writer and theologian said that God in his mercy doesn't
thrust an eternity with him onto people who've actively chosen to
live without him in this life.
You know, he passionately wants all of us, but he lets us choose.
The Bible tells us that God himself came down to earth in a human body as Jesus
to pay the debt we owe so that he can be both loving and just, and that anyone
who allows him to pay their debt for them is able to stand in God's presence
now and be with him for eternity.
In this, Christianity is also inclusive.
The Bible says, for God so loved the world that he gave his one and only
son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
The second claim that Jesus made about himself here is that he is the truth.
A popular phrase we hear nowadays is you live your truth and I'll
live mine, and there are some good things about that statement.
For example, when our son Josh first went to university, on the very first night,
his flatmates decided to play a drinking game that involved drinking lots of
alcohol after various rounds of something.
Uh, Josh didn't want to drink loads of alcohol, so he said
he'd play the game with water.
The others thought it was a little bit unusual, but they were fine about it.
In this case, live your own truth is a helpful thing, and living your
own truth also allows people not to have to conform to ever changing
beauty standards, but there is a negative side to live your truth.
The implication to this statement is often that truth isn't knowable, and
it's whatever you decide, and that can change from person to person and from
day to day, and from emotion to emotion.
That's okay if it's talking about food preferences or study styles, but if it's
talking about anything deeper than that, Jesus says not only is truth knowable, but
it's knowable not just on an intellectual level, but on a relational level.
He defines what is true and what is good and what is right.
And I've already done a talk about Truth for Crowd, which you
can listen to on our website.
So I'm not gonna go into that, into any more detail about that subject now.
But, you know, the whole thing of, um, truth, there've been times in my
life when I wasn't doing well mentally or emotionally, and I felt like there
was this mist where I couldn't see anything around me and didn't know
which way was up and which way was down.
And I felt like a pilot in a cloud who couldn't see anything out of the
windows because of all the fog, and had to rely on the instruments in
front of them to tell them what's what.
God's word was like that for me, telling me what's true and
showing me the step, um, each way.
The third claim that Jesus made about himself is that he's life.
He's not about dead, boring religion, but following him brings
life, um, into every area of life.
For example, the Bible says that I'm made in God's image.
That automatically gives me value and significance just by existing,
regardless of what I've done.
And God says he's got a good plan for my life, that I'm part of his
body carrying out his plans on Earth.
That gives me purpose.
He tells me to take ownership for the things I do and say that are wrong.
He shows me how to forgive.
Um, but not to facilitate anyone's bad behavior.
That gives me peace with people, but it also gives good boundaries.
And all of these things are great for my mental health, which
is a big thing at the moment.
I could go on like every area of life it impacts.
But back to today's passage, um, where we were talking about
going through tough times.
Have you ever thought, if only I could just see God and hear his
voice audibly, that will get, get me through any tough time?
That would be enough for me.
I certainly have.
Philip, one of the group with Jesus thought this too.
He said, Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.
Jesus answered, don't you know me, Philip, even after I've been
among you for such a long time?
Anyone who's seen me has seen the Father.
How can you say, show us the Father?
Don't you believe that I am in the Father and that Father is in me?
The words I say to you, I do not speak on my own authority.
Rather, it's the Father living in me who is doing his work.
If you've ever wondered what God looks like, look at Jesus in the Bible.
He claims that He is God come in human form.
We can read about him, but we can also experience God through His Holy Spirit.
The next verses say this.
Believe me when I say that I am in my Father and the Father is
in me, or at least believe on the evidence of the work themselves.
Jesus tells us to believe him.
And contrary to what many people think, Christianity isn't a case
of believing despite the facts.
Jesus says, if you can't believe in me just because of my words
alone, look at the evidence of all the things that I've done.
And, uh, you might, um, yeah.
So he is looking, saying, you can look at the evidence to
support the claims that he's made.
You might think, well, how can I look at the evidence when all
this stuff happened so long ago?
Well, I'd like to recommend a book called Forensic Faith that
looks at those sort of questions.
It's written by, it's written by a guy called Jay Warner Wallace, and he's
a homicide detective in the states.
He specializes in cold cases, in other words, murder cases
that are old and unsolved.
He was an atheist, but decided to investigate the Christian faith as if it
were one of his cold cases to prove that it was a load of rubbish, but he actually
found the evidence really compelling and ended up committing his life to Jesus.
One of the things he says is that in any of his cases, he gathers all the
evidence, but he's never a hundred percent sure, but you can come to a conclusion
where you are beyond reasonable doubt.
There'll always be unanswered questions and things we're not sure about,
but it's the same for any worldview.
It's the same if you are an atheist or a Hindu or a Buddhist or whatever,
and that's where faith comes in.
With Christianity, evidence takes us so far and faith
takes us the rest of the way.
Very truly, I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I've been doing,
and they will do even greater things than these because I'm going to the father.
And I'll do whatever you ask in my name so that the father
may be glorified in the son.
You may ask me for anything in my name and I'll do it.
If you love me, keep my commands and I will ask the father and he
will give you another advocate to help you and be with you forever.
A spirit of truth.
There are loads of things in here that I don't have time to pick up
on, uh, but the one thing I will pick up on is that a friend from a Muslim
background, once asked me If God just forgives you for all this bad stuff
you do, what is there to stop you from carrying on doing all the bad stuff?
The suggestion of the question is that we only do good things so
that God won't punish us first.
15 that we just read tells us the answer.
It's love.
Love is a much healthier motivator than fear in relationships.
And when we give our lives to God, he makes us new on the inside.
So that we can do things out of love.
Let me give you an example.
So when our kids were small, they often did the right thing to avoid the
consequences of doing the wrong thing.
And we made sure there were consequences.
So it means so much more.
The times when they've like offered to help me with something.
Not because they have to, but because they love me and they want to help.
They've chosen to do it out of their own free will.
And as Christians, when we remember who God is and how much he loves us, we
don't do stuff to get him to love us.
We already have His love.
We do good things because he loved his first and we love him back.
So we have a hope for the future, but we also have a relationship
with God himself in the present.
And that is good news.
Matt Edmundson: And welcome back to Conversation Street with myself and
Anna here at Crowd Online Church.
A warm welcome to you if you joined us all.
Anna your lights are doing funny things, eh?
Anna Kettle: Yeah, that was weird, wasn't it?
Matt Edmundson: Spooky, spooky.
Anna Kettle: The power of Crowd Church.
Matt Edmundson: Do you think that's what it is?
I just thought it was an electrical fluctuation.
But let's go with that.
Yours is much better.
Anna Kettle: It's more we're about to have a blackout.
I'm not sure when.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
Yeah.
So welcome to Crowd Online Church.
If this is your first time with us, warm welcome to you.
If you are watching catch up, do come and join us on Sundays as we
live stream at 6:00 PM UK time.
That's 1:00 PM Eastern Time.
And if you are in other parts of the world, if you head up to the website,
Crowd Church, it has a little link on there which tells you what time
that is, according to your local time, which is a wonderful thing.
Be great if you come join us and uh, yes, if you are watching live on
Facebook, there is a link which you can click, which will bring you to YouTube.
uh, and you can join us on YouTube, which may explain why there's not
as many comments on Facebook, uh, uh, because people have tuned into
YouTube to help, uh, watch the service.
We are sort of testing the waters of whether we become
YouTube only kind of livestream.
So, uh, that's what we're doing.
We're experimenting a little bit.
So do come join us on YouTube.
Great if you get there.
Uh, so yes, Anna, Sharon's talk.
Should we talk about that?
I think I've got all the notices out of the way.
Anna Kettle: Yeah.
Lets.
I mean, there was a lot in that, wasn't there?
It's quite a, quite a deep talk.
Lots of content.
I, I thought there was lots of challenge on there.
Um, yeah, like.
I dunno, it's hard to know where to begin, isn't it?
Matt Edmundson: It's um, it's a fascinating subject.
Yeah, it is.
It's a big topic because it was a massive claim made by Jesus, wasn't it?
Uh, I am the way, the truth and the life.
It was a huge claim.
Uh, and then of course all the stuff that Sharon talks about before
Jesus sort of, uh, runs up to that claim was also pretty significant.
So yes, very meaty verses uh, so do, lets know what you got out of
that in the comments, uh, Miriam, I got that you need to know life
fully to find comfort in Jesus.
That's fair play.
That's a fair comment.
Miriam.
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah.
Uh, you've got to know, I think you've got to know Jesus fully to find or got to
know life fully, to find comfort in Jesus.
Or if you know Jesus fully, you find life.
I think it works both ways around, right?
Anna Kettle: Yeah.
I am.
I loved her, what she had to say on like how, you know, like she
started talking about the sort of theme of oppression, didn't she?
And Yeah.
Yeah.
But I loved what she had to say about like how faith is inclusive.
Mm-hmm.
, um, in that the, like claims that Jesus made were like that.
We've all, we've all fallen short, you know, like it's inclusive in
that the offer of salvation and hope in Jesus is for everyone.
Um, but also the claim that we've awful and short is also applies to everyone.
Even though suppose we're doing pretty well as we are, it's not just for
those that think they really need it.
Yeah.
But we, we're all, we're all in need of it.
And I know that that's kind of so, so basic in some ways, isn't it?
Such a core part of our faith and yet I think it's easy to, to forget.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I think you're right.
It's an interesting one, isn't it?
That when you think about this concept of oppression, and Sharon said this,
and I, I wrote it in the comments, so I thought it was a wonderful comment
that actually the Bible definition of oppression is different to what we would
probably currently use at the moment.
Um, and we, we, there is part of society that I think is very quick to use
the word oppression, uh, for meaning.
I don't like what you are saying to me.
Uh, and it's, it's like, I don't like what you're saying to me,
therefore you're oppressing me.
I think, I think we have to get over ourselves a little bit in some respects.
Sorry to step on people's toes, because there are genuinely people
who are oppressed out there.
Uh, and I think it sometimes makes a mockery out of, you
know, genuine oppression.
But it, I find, um, you know, uh, cue comments now.
Uh, but I find that, um, the, the story of this fascinating because there
were people who were being oppressed.
And spoiler alert, again, I'm, I'm planning Christmas'
talk called How to Find Peace.
Finding Peace in Difficult Times, I think is title of the Talk.
Yes.
And we're, we're gonna talk about this a little bit in that, in the sense
that, um, you have a bunch of people who are oppressed, who are waiting for a
Messiah to come and free them, you know?
And what they're expecting is they're expecting Messiah to come and take over
their enemies and rule and reign with fairness and justice, which obviously
we think ultimately happens, but didn't happen at the birth of Christ.
The way that it happened at the birth of Christ was Jesus came and said,
right, boys and girls, yeah, oppression.
The best way to deal with this is to look at your own hearts.
And you kind of go, that's not what I expected.
Anna Kettle: And they were waiting for like, you know, the Jewish people at the
time of Christ birth, they were waiting for a kind of religious like leader to
rise up weren't they where a political leader who would overthrow their kind of
physical oppressors and kind of create a new nation for them, as it were.
So they were looking for like a political hero who would rise up in
power or like a, you know, overthrow the Roman Empire as it was at the time.
And mm-hmm.
. And, you know, I still think we think of power, um, kind of that overthrowing
of, you know, its, it's the whole thing of the kingdom of God doesn't
work the way we so often think.
So it's like they're looking for this kind of military power almost, weren't they?
Someone who would come and overthrow the current way that
things were and the current order.
And, and yet the way that he comes is as a baby.
And it's so counterculture to the way we think, you know?
And I think you can look at, you can look at so much of the world now, and we
still think, oh, the way that injustice will be overthrown and that peace will
be brought on earth as through political change or kind of change in ideologies,
um, like, you know, and that would happen where you, you know, we, we fall
for it over and over again, don't we?
That idea that it's through war, that it's through military or kind of
political like overturning and people, and I'm not saying any of these things
are wrong, like God can work through those things too, but like so often
God comes in the small ways and Yeah.
Um, and you are right Matt's, it's like what Jesus teaches is that changes
in your own heart and in the human heart, not kind of in world systems.
Yeah.
Um, yeah, it's not, you know, the change starts so much closer to
home and I think, I think that's kind of more than anything that's
what the Christmas story teaches me.
Probably like getting ahead of ourselves a month here, aren't we?
Matt Edmundson: You, you preach it, girl.
You, I think you're totally right.
Anna.
And I think it's good to remember that, especially in the UK at the moment
with the political upheaval we have, it's easy to blame politicians for
problems that we are experiencing.
And I hands up, I can do that just as well as anybody.
Right?
I I, I'm good at those kind of arguments and conversations, but
fundamentally the, the answer to the problems that we face is not found
in a better leader, I don't think.
I think the answer to the problems that we face are found in Jesus.
And the first thing that Jesus does is he makes us examine in our own hearts.
And um, and in that way, like Sharon said, Christianity becomes insanely
inclusive because it's like, well actually, We've all gotta take
our own piece of responsibility.
It's easy to shift the blame.
Yeah.
Because guess what?
That people group over there is oppressing me because they say
things that I don't like or therefore you're oppressing No, no, no, no.
Um, it's taking responsibility, isn't it?
And saying, actually, no, I've got a part to play in this.
Both the, the both the reason that we're here and also the solution.
Um, and I don't think you can get away from that.
I really don't.
I think it's quite a hard hitting message, actually.
Anna Kettle: Yeah.
And you look at some of the big issues we've got in the world today, like,
like things like climate change and, you know, big macro problems like Yeah.
Climate change, like global wars and arrest and economic issues that are
international and um, and you just think.
Yeah.
They're big.
And it's easy to say, oh, it's nothing to do with me.
I, I can't do anything.
But isn't that the point?
Like we, if we all did a little bit, things would change and, um, I don't know.
I always think, you know, when, when Sharon was talking about oppression
before, it just made me think, we so often think, don't we, we
are not the oppressors, like, oh, we're, we are not oppressing anyone.
Like, yeah, I'm, I'm a good person.
I'm not, you know, it's people like Putin and Putin is obviously
an oppressive regime at the moment, his, the Russian regime.
But, you know, it's easy to, to like just look at the big oppression
that's happening globally.
But actually we're all part of a system and economic global system
that oppresses other people.
Mm-hmm.
like we live in the West.
So by, you know, when I actually step back and think about it, just
the way I shop, the way I live, you know, in order for me to have plenty
as you know, someone else is being oppressed somewhere else in the world.
With or without my, you know, I prefer that wasn't the case, but that is
the global system we're part of it.
I mean, but like I go and shop for like fashion in the UK and someone else on the
other side of the world is being oppressed in order to make my clothes cheaper.
And, you know, we're all on some level, um, implicit in it.
I know it's hard for, you know, it's, and these are big issues, aren't they?
And it's hard for us to, individually, we can all make small consumer
choices and small changes on a sort of very personal level.
But, you know, it's hard for us to overturn those huge systems, uh,
international and global and, and just been going on for a long time.
But at the same time, I don't think any of us can wash our hands a bit and say,
well, I'm not oppressing anyone else.
Cuz I think it'd be very hard for, you know, I'm holding my like
iPhone here and it's like who's been oppressed to build that iPhone.
Yeah.
For me, you know, we all, the way we live, um, you know, there's.
It's built into the way our world is.
I don't think any of us get a kind of get out card.
So.
Yeah.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
It's very true, very true.
And a very hard hitting, isn't it?
It's like Jesus uses this phrase, you know, before you try and take the plank
out somebody else's eye, look sorry.
Before you take the speck out of somebody else's eye, try and take
that, you know, have a look at the plank that's in your own eye.
And that I think is one of the things that when you come face to face with
the gospel of Christ, that's one of the things it causes you to do,
is it causes you to reflect on your own attitude, on your own lifestyle,
and the own way that you do things.
Um, And you, you can't escape it.
It's super confrontational, uh, you know, super confrontational.
So let's get into, um, what's Matt put here.
Join us mid, join us for our midweek Crowd Prayer Zoom 8:00 PM Wednesday.
If you do wanna come join us, by the way, our midweek groups, uh, do
get in touch with us by the website.
Let us know our WhatsApp, which is also on the website.
Crowd Church.
I'll put the little link on there.
Thanks for the reminder, Matt.
Yes, but he's put here, join us for our midweek Crowd prayers
in 8:00 PM Wednesday UK time.
That's 3:00 PM Eastern.
Matt Edmundson will probably get us off Zoom onto a poorer platform shortly for
our midweek too, I think, Matt, you've got issues, uh, about the Facebook thing.
You need to let it go, bud.
But I do appreciate what you're saying and, um, you know, if you've got any
thoughts on whether we should just be YouTube only or whether we should actually
still be on Facebook, do let us know.
Genuinely would love to hear from you.
Uh, it is an experiment.
Um, so yeah, so, uh, Jesus being the way, the truth and the life, and I think it
was a really interesting, uh, paradox that Sharon brought out here about how Jesus is
in some ways quite exclusive, saying, I am the way and excluding every other route to
Christ, it started to rain really heavy.
You might be able to hear this, uh, its just properly bucking it down right now.
Uh, that might explain why your powers going out, uh, Jesus.
Anna Kettle: Well, this energy we're having already running out.
Hopefully not.
Matt Edmundson: Get Andy peddle on his bike quicker.
Come on, more electricity.
Uh, Andy is, Andy's Anna's husband, by the way, who's, uh, on the,
sorry, generating electricity, right?
Um, so yeah.
So in some respects, Jesus saying I am the way is quite exclusive.
Um, and people have a hardish hardish time with that statement.
Um, but also, uh, it's very inclusive because he's, he's the way for everybody.
Right.
And, um, he doesn't leave anybody out.
And it in effect, it comes down to you, your choice.
It's not a birth thing, it's not a, um, you know, where you were
born, what family you're with.
It's actually, it's open to everybody.
So at the same time, the gospel is both inclusive, inclusive and exclusive.
And I thought that was quite interesting point she brought out.
Anna Kettle: Mm, yeah, I think so.
And you know, I mean, she picked up a bit on this as well, but I think
it's, it's quite a, as you said, it's a really bold statement to make in
this kind of worldview that we live in now where it's like, well, that's
your truth and this is mine and we can all believe something different.
And all of it's true and, you know, laugh about Facebook, but you.
Algorithms give people different truths.
You know, half, you know, I'm not, I don't wanna get too political, but
like half of America thinks one person won the last election and the other
half of America think the other person won and they can't both have won.
Somebody won and someone lost that.
Yeah.
So not both those things can be true.
Like he's right and he's wrong.
And then I think we live in this weird world where we believe that we like it.
It sounds inclusive, doesn't it?
Say, well, everyone's right, but actually when you really comes down
to, to push and shove like somebody, there has to be an ultimate truth there.
Not everyone can be, right?
If two people are saying the opposite things.
Mm-hmm.
like, you know, it's not just, you could say to a Republican who's
saying Trump won the last election.
You could say, well that's your truth and it's right for you, but you know, it's
got to be right for the whole of America because it, that's how democracy works.
And actually when you follow that argument through, it doesn't
make huge intellectual sense.
And then I love what she said about it.
It's both intellectual and it's, but it's also a relational truth.
Mm-hmm..
Um, and I think that's the thing.
It's like, it doesn't make total intellectual sense when you, you
follow that argument through, but also, it doesn't make relational
sense either, because like Yeah.
It's, it's a personal, it's a personal truth that you
experienced and like, um, yeah.
Matt Edmundson: No, it's true.
Yeah.
Well, it's funny, isn't it?
It's true.
Is, and I find it fascinating, this whole, you know, in effect you have
said something, I don't like it because it has consequences for me.
Therefore I feel oppressed.
And therefore what I'm gonna say is that's, that's your truth.
That's not my truth.
And actually, we, we've substituted the word truth with experience.
In other words, that's your experience.
That's not my experience.
Right.
Um, and we start saying, you know, live your truth.
Which, like you, I find very peculiar in a lot of ways because how can
you, how can, how can both sides of the presidential debate be right?
They can't.
Right.
Yeah.
It's a really, I think it's you're spot on.
Anna Kettle: Also, even when you take it to a more personal level than that,
it's like, how can, like we all, we all believe at some level as kind of
unorganized society, that there's, there's things that are true and false, that
there's things that are good and bad.
There's also, there's certain behaviors and things that we all agree are wrong,
like you shouldn't murder someone, you know, know, and, and, and we live in a
lawful society where, because we all say there's an ultimate truth, that certain
things are okay and certain things aren't.
So I think at some level everybody would agree that there is, there is
an absolute, there is a right and a wrong, A black and a white somewhere.
Yeah, of course there's lots of areas that are more gray, but it, it just feels
to me that it's disingenuous, genuine, and like, you can't really argue that
through, and nobody really wants to live in a society where there's no truth
and there's no absolute right or wrong.
Um, it sounds nice when, as you say, it's like, therefore I don't
have to be challenged on anything.
But actually when you follow that through to conclusion,
nobody really believes that.
I don't think.
Not when you look at the big picture.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.
Like you say, there are certain things that they'll go, well, no,
that, of course that's, you're right.
You can't murder somebody.
And why would we call Putin's war an unjust war if there was no absolute truth
Or if there was no objective morality?
Because it's kind of like, well, what ha, what makes it unjust?
Yeah.
Do you mean answer me that question?
He was, in some respects, he was responding to the fact he didn't want
the Ukraine to join forces with Nato.
Right.
He felt in, I don't know what Putin felt to be fair.
I opinions on that aside, but it's that kind of thing where, um, his truth or
his, his understanding of facts is very different to the rest of the world.
Right.
And he, and you know, and we call it unjust.
He calls it just and righteous.
He is freeing the oppressed.
Right.
Um, and so again, we can't both be right.
And so,
Anna Kettle: well we call it fake news, don't we?
Yeah, we do.
And you know, Trump talks a lot about this as well, but we call it fake news.
So he's telling his country a whole different version of
reality to the rest of the world.
And, you know, because of carefully owned state media mm-hmm.
they hear a very different truth to us.
But not both of those sides can be true.
Can they?
It's.
Yeah.
No, and it's, uh, I just find, I find it fascinating and I just, yeah, I
think we've kind of bought this view quite a lot in certainly my generation
and younger, younger generations, uh, millennials and what have you.
But, um, yeah, I, I just don't, I don't think it's all that helpful.
Uh, I, yeah, I just think actually when you step back from it, it sounds nice,
but it doesn't actually, yeah, it doesn't actually lead to like the way, the
truth and the life as Jesus said, like there has to be an absolute to, to find
the way the truth and the life Doesn't there like has to be an absolute, um,
Matt Edmundson: there does, and it's an, I think it's an interesting order of words.
You start with Jesus being the way you then end up with Jesus being the truth,
and you end up with Jesus being the life.
And it's kind of like there is this routine which says, I somehow have
to wrestle with the fact that Jesus is who he says he is, or he isn't.
Right.
Because he makes this statement, I'm the way, the truth and the life.
He's either lying or he is not right.
He can't, he can't.
He can't be a nice guy because he is either a blatant liar or a lunatic, or
he is actually telling the truth, right?
And it's not just, you know, my truth or Jesus's truth.
It's just common sense.
And so you wrestle with this idea is Jesus the way, and then
you are confronted with truth.
And so you then wrestle with the fact, well, am I gonna live
my life according to His truth?
According to the truth of Christ?
And this is where a lot of people struggle because a lot of people want control.
And it's like, no, no, I wanna make my own choices.
And it's like, well, you can still make your own choices, but
there's a fundamental truth there that we have to surrender to.
And if we do that, then I think we find life.
But I think a lot of people are wanting to skip the way and the truth and just
go straight to having a great life.
And so if I ignore the rest of it, um, I, there's no truth.
And Jesus is not the only way, uh, my way is the right way for
me, uh, because that's my truth.
Then surely I have found life and you kind of go, have you really?
I don't know.
Do you know what I mean there?
There seems to be some kind of structure in the statement here.
Maybe I'm over analyzing it.
I don't know.
Anna Kettle: Yeah, I think that's interesting.
I think in a sense they do follow on from each other, don't they?
And um, yeah, and I think what you end up with, if you follow
that three to conclusion is like, so choose my way and my truth.
And then what I'm left with is my life.
The life I've already got, not the life, the eternal life
that, you know, God offers.
It's the fullness of life that Jesus promises.
Mm-hmm.
, it's like what you end up with is just the life you have as I is your life,
your kind of, your, your way, your truth.
But it's not eternal life and it's not fullness of life.
It's just, I don't know.
Yeah.
It's, it, yeah.
It's, um, but I don't think you can mix a two together, can you?
And somehow get to eternal life.
Matt Edmundson: Not according to, um, not according to Jesus.
Uh, you know, you may have a different, you, I know there's
people gonna be listening to this going, guys, just come on.
You can't think that way anymore.
And I'm, but it's, I struggle with this, um, be your own truth, because
it is so uncertain and because I, I'm gonna change my opinion every other day.
I cuz my feelings, my emotions change every other day, right?
So what am I basing my life on?
And I think one of the things that we would say that characterizes Christians,
um, certainly here at Crowd is actually we base our life on the truth of God.
That we, as much as we can submit to his truth, we're gonna, we're gonna find out
a lot more about what that actually is.
Um, yeah.
You know, and some of the statements that Jesus continues to make, uh, as we go
through the gospel of John, as in the new year, we're gonna hit the book of Acts.
Um, and we're gonna find some incredible stuff, uh, in there.
And it's not all bad news, let me tell you.
It's actually all good news.
Uh, and it's, it's all wonderful stuff.
Um, but I think that that should be one of the things that
characterizes as Christians, is we actually go, there is a version.
I always describe it like this, right?
Let's take a little quiz.
Mrs.
Kettle.
This is not a trick question.
Uh, lemme just clarify, I'm not trying to catch you out . If I was to ask you.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
How fast are you traveling right now?
Anna Kettle: Um, well, I'm sitting still, but I suppose I'm traveling if I'm, if
the earth is spinning and I'm on it.
Matt Edmundson: Exactly right.
So you are sitting still, so relative to everything around you, you are not moving.
But if you look at how fast the earth spins, do you know how fast it spins?
I have not a clue.
Thousand miles an hour There or thereabouts.
So if I say to you, how fast are you traveling?
And you say to me, I'm moving at about a thousand miles an hour,
actually, it's probably quite a reasonable statement to make.
And then you think about, well, hang on a minute.
The earth orbits the sun.
Do you know how fast the earth orbits the sun?
No, I think it's just shy of around 30,000 miles an hour.
Wow.
Uh, and so, uh, I've never been done for speeding and had to go to court.
Uh, but part of me is tempted if that ever did hap ever did
happen and the dude says to me.
How fast were you traveling?
I go about 30,000 miles, your Honor.
Uh.
See what, see what finds you come out with.
No, don't do that, honestly.
Uh, but it in one sense, this, here's the thing relative to how I feel
right now, I'm not moving right.
But it, when I understand the truth that is beyond my circumstance and beyond what
I feel, I have a different understanding.
If I understood how fast the galaxy was spinning, maybe I'd
have an even bigger understanding.
And what we're saying is, is the ultimate truth is Christ, right?
And that there are things that we perceive to be true.
But actually when we take a step back and look at things in the context
of Christ, there is absolute truth.
And that's why we say that there is absolute truth and
that that truth is Jesus.
Does that make sense?
Anna Kettle: It does.
It's a really good way of looking at it actually.
I hadn't thought about it like that before, but perspective
is everything, isn't it?
Mm-hmm.
, like we only see life through the narrow perspective of our worldview
and the way we look at life.
But God's perspective is so much bigger than ours and so much, you
know, it's much wider lens, isn't it?
As it were.
Mm-hmm.
. And, um, we only see part of the truth and that that's what the Bible says.
And he sees the whole of truth, the whole of tying the whole of the story in one go.
And we only see that tiny moment that we are in now and how we feeling it
and I don't know to make that, the center point of all of it seems a
little bit ego-centric, doesn't it?
And small.
Matt Edmundson: It really does.
It, it it really is.
Egocentric is a great word.
It is a great word.
Pete Farrington, uh, gave a great example a couple of weeks ago when he talked about
his little lad and he said, you know what?
My little lad, I think it's two years old, something like that.
Little cute little boy actually.
Uh, and he says, um, he was talking about how when he disciplines his son, his son
has a very limited view of what is right and what is proper and what is good.
And so when he takes something away from his two year old son and he kicks
up a fuss, the opinion of his two year old son is, this is not right.
But him as a father has a slightly bigger view of what's best for his son.
It's not like Pete's trying to hack him off.
He's just doing what he thinks is the right thing to do to be a parent.
And I think we are like that two year old kid.
Thrown a tantrum quite often.
Yeah.
Often.
And we just don't see the bigger picture, the, the truth of God
and, and stretching that out.
So Anna, listen, as you said, we're talkers.
Yeah.
We are talkers.
We do like to have a conversation.
Thank you, uh, for that.
Yeah, it's good.
I enjoyed that.
There's some good systematic theology there.
So, uh, if you are still with us, it's great that you are still here.
If you are watching on catch up, do come and join us on the live streams and this
way you get to join in the conversations.
Uh, see, Sarah's been on the comment.
Uh, Matt says we're heading over to YouTube only within the next few weeks.
Uh, we won't be able to have the same level of banter due to the public arena of
the platform, but we'll have the memories that Facebook livestreams gave us.
So, uh, if you're wondering what Matt is talking about, we are, uh, uh, sort
of moving away from doing both YouTube and Facebook to just focus on our
livestream on YouTube, and we're gonna experiment and see how that's going.
So, uh, do come join.
We will post links still on Facebook and links to the YouTube channel
and all that sort of stuff, so you will be able to come join us.
But if you haven't done so already, head over to YouTube, subscribe to Crowd
Church, get the little bell notification and, um, and when we're live, it will
come up hopefully on your little phone and, and tell you that we're live and
come join the conversation as normal.
Uh, but yeah, Anna, what's coming up next week?
Anna Kettle: Next week we have, um, a friend called, Sherlon , uh, come
speak to us on the next session from the gospel of Mark, John.
She, John, sorry, what gospel are we in again, John?
Um, and Sherlon is um, his friend of ours from church, isn't he?
Yeah, he's a great guy.
He's a teacher, isn't he?
Yeah, he is that's his day job.
Yeah.
He's a fab guy, dad of two and yeah, I'm sure he'll have loads
of great stuff to talk about, so I'm looking forward to that one.
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I've no doubt.
I actually used to live with Sherlon.
He and I used to yeah, yeah, yeah.
A long time ago before we were both married.
Uh, and so yeah.
Lived with Sherlon.
Uh, absolute legend.
He's an athlete, as he would tell us regularly, when we were living together.
I'm an athlete, and, um, with an f, not with a th not an athlete, but an aflete.
Uh, and love Sherlon to bits.
He's an aflete.
So come and join Sherlon the aflete next week.
You know, it's gonna be good.
He's an absolute legend.
He's spoken on Crowd before.
Love the man to bits.
He's such a cool dude.
I wish I could be as cool as Sherlon.
He just, he just has this sort of swagger about him, doesn't he?
And he's just like,
Anna Kettle: yeah, he's very laid back, Mr.
Chill to me.
So, yeah, he does.
Everyone give him some banter next week about his afleticism?
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely.
He'll, he'll enjoy it.
Uh, but yeah, come join us on Facebook.
Uh, Facebook, yeah, YouTube.
I will put the notes on Facebook.
Uh, but yeah, that's it for me.
That's it from Anna.
From, as Matt said earlier, if you would like to join us, join midweek.
It'll be great to see you.
We do have midweek groups.
Uh, And if you, uh, are for come join us on Zoom, uh, come say, how's it?
Uh, you don't have to be a Christian at all.
Uh, we enjoy the debate and we enjoy the conversation.
More information can be found on our website, Crowd.Church.
Or you can reach out to us on social media, at Crowd Church.
There's also a WhatsApp number on the website, which you can reach us on.
We would love to hear from you.
Uh, we get Prayer requests all the time, and so, uh, we appreciate
you guys sending those in.
We do pray, uh, and we'll continue to pray, uh, going forward.
So, yes, uh, Matt says, remain blessed everyone.
Au Revoir Facebook, he's speaking French now.
I mean, it's, uh, it's getting bad.
Uh, he's speaking French, uh, but.
Uh, that's it from us.
Uh, thank you for joining us.
It's been an absolute treat to be with you talking about this topic.
Um, if we have said something which you have found, uh, maybe controversial
or slightly offensive, please don't be, we're not here to offend you.
We're just here to have a conversation.
Come join in the conversation.
That's the beauty of this kind of stuff, right?
Yeah, it's, uh, it's just we like debate, we like conversations, so
we would love to hear from you.
Uh, that's it from myself.
That's it from Anna.
Uh, have a fantastic week.
Uh, anything else from you, Mrs.
Kettle?
Anna Kettle: No, just enjoyed the conversation tonight and
everyone, have a lovely week.
See you soon.
Matt Edmundson: Absolutely.
We're gonna end the livestream now.
See you next time.
Bye for now.