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Matt Edmundson: Welcome to this
week's Crowd Church service.

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We are a digital church on a
quest to discover how Jesus helps

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us live a more meaningful life.

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We are a community, a space to explore
the Christian faith and a place

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where you can contribute and grow.

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Our service, uh, will last about
an hour and in a few seconds you'll

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meet our hosts, uh, for our service,
who will introduce today's talk.

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After the talk, we will have a time of
worship and reflection, after which we

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head into Conversation Street, where
we look at your stories and questions

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that you've posted in the comments.

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Now, we want to invite you to connect with
us here at Crowd Church, and we've got a

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few ways in which you can do just that.

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Firstly, you can engage with Crowd
from any device during our live

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stream, and if you're up for it.

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Why not invite a few friends over
and experience the service together?

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You see, church is all about connecting
with God and connecting with others.

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And one of the easiest ways for
you to do that is join one of our

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midweek groups where we meet online
together to catch up and discover

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more about the amazingness of Christ.

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You can also subscribe to our fairly
new podcast called What's the Story,

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uh, where we deep dive into stories of
faith and courage from everyday people.

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More information about all of
these things can be found on

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our website at www.crowd.church.

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Or you can reach out to us on
social media at Crowd Church.

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If you are new to Crowd or new to
the Christian Faith and would like to

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know what your next steps to take off.

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Well why not head over to our website,
www.crowd.church/next for more details.

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And now the moment you've
been waiting for is here.

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Our Online Church
Service starts right now.

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Well.

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Good evening and welcome
to Crowd Church Online.

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My name is Matt, and beside me
is the beautiful Anna Kettle.

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Anna, how are we doing this evening?

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Anna Kettle: I'm good.

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Thank you.

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Yeah, happy to be here.

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Matt Edmundson: Ah, yeah,
this evening, everyone.

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Happy Sunday evening.

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Now, do forgive me, uh, ladies and
gentlemen, for the very croaky voice.

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Uh, let's just be grateful.

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I actually have one, uh, tonight,
. It's one of those, isn't it?

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I'm trying my best, uh,
Barry White impression.

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So we'll do the detail.

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Anna Kettle: Some people would say it's
a benefit that Matt can't talk for, you

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know, then I'd be like talking myself.

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So maybe, maybe not.

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I'm not sure.

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Matt Edmundson: Yeah, that's
very, very true actually.

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It, uh, it could be classed as a benefit,
uh, but you just never know, right?

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So one of the things that we are
wanting to do, ladies and gentlemen,

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if you are watching this, Hey, Matt.

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Hey Miriam.

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Great to see you in the comments,
um, in the facebook channel we have

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put a link to the YouTube channel
and we are asking if you would mind

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coming and joining us on YouTube.

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Over the next few weeks, we will be
transitioning, uh, from Facebook.

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We will be moving to a YouTube
only stream, and we're gonna

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test and see how that goes.

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Uh, it may change in the new year,
but until for the rest of the year,

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we all shift to new, uh, to YouTube.

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Just an experiment,
just to see how it goes.

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So, uh, if you could come join us on
YouTube, write your comments and say,

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how's it in YouTube, that would be great.

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As I said, the link is in the comments.

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Uh, yes, Matt, I am ill, I just, my, I
didn't wake up one day and just sort of

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think, oh, I'll talk with a deep voice.

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It's, um, it's not something that I did.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Uh, but let's be grateful.

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Like I say, I've actually got a voice.

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Um, we have, uh, how's
your weekend been Anna?

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Anna Kettle: It's been good actually.

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Yeah, we haven't done too much.

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It's been quite a relaxed one.

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Um, had, yeah, some had a friend's
party this afternoon, went to Oh, nice.

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Out for food with some friends,
which was nice and relaxing.

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Went to church this morning.

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Um, yeah, just done some nice
family stuff together this weekend.

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It's just, yeah, just been kind of
a quiet one, which is nice sometimes

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to just slow it down a bit, isn't it?

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What about you, you've been
recovering from illness or,

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Matt Edmundson: uh, no.

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Well, yes.

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Sorry.

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Yes.

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I have been recovering from illness.

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It was funny.

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Last week I had to do, like, on
Thursday, I had a, my voice was

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slightly deeper than it is now.

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I am slowly getting better.

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Um, but I had to do a whole
bunch of, uh, recordings.

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So podcasting, um, video stuff.

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I mean, just a whole
bunch of stuff happened.

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Yeah.

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And, uh, on every single one of them, I
just said this and I'm really sorry, uh.

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I'm just, it's just the way it is.

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This is not my voice.

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Uh, and so yeah, I've been recovering,
but I've been recovering in St.

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Andrews.

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So we popped up to St.

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Andrews to see Josh, uh, my
son, if you're unfamiliar with

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who Josh is, Josh is my son.

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He wrote the Crowd Church music theme.

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Um, and he is at University up in St.

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Andrews, up in North Scotland.

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Uh, it's about six, seven hours
away from Liverpool with the crazy

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traffic that we experienced today.

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And he's turning 21,

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Anna Kettle: so oh, 21.

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Happy birthday.

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Matt Edmundson: Happy birthday son.

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Happy birthday.

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Oh, Miriam is now on YouTube.

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Excellent.

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Matt's like, I hate YouTube.

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Matt, you're just gonna
have to get over it.

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Just get on YouTube, Matt.

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Anna Kettle: Some people hate Facebook.

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So there's no pleasing everyone is it?

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Matt Edmundson: That's very true.

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That is very true.

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So yeah, if you are just joining the
livestream, uh, we are in the, and

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you're joining us on Facebook, do
come and join us over on YouTube.

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The link is in the comments.

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Um, over the next few
weeks, we will be migrating.

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Frontline or Frontline?

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Not Frontline Crowd.

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Just get the right church man.

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Uh, we will be migrating Crowd
Church over to YouTube only.

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So do come join us on YouTube if you can.

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The link is in the comments.

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Miriam is over there now.

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Uh, lemme just write in here.

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Hey, Miriam, spelling her name, right?

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Sorry about that.

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Uh, she's joined on
YouTube, so it's great.

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Come join us on there.

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Come say how's it, in the  comments,
it'd be great to see you now.

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Anna.

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What's happening today?

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So

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Anna Kettle: today we've got your
beautiful wife, Sharon speaking to us.

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Oh yes.

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Carrying on a series that we've been
on the gospels and, um, yeah, we've got

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worship coming up and then we'll have
conversations street, which is a chance

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for everyone to ask their questions,
post their questions on their comments.

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So do be thinking about that and posting
as we're sort of listening to the talk.

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Yeah.

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And yeah, and just then general
feedback and chat from me and Matt.

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Matt Edmundson: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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I, I always enjoy the, um,
the Conversation Street.

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I do.

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I I do.

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I think it's great fun.

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Anna Kettle: Well, I think
we're both talkers, right, Matt?

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So like we could just like, talk on
and give us any subject we could.

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Matt Edmundson: Yeah, any topic.

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And we we're gone.

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We, uh, yeah, we'll be gone.

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So

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Anna Kettle: it's much better if
other people put their comments in.

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So just have opinions.

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So please everyone just, you
know, add your comments and.

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And opinions.

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Otherwise it's just me and Matt,
which is boring for everyone.

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I hope.

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Matt Edmundson: Wow.

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Uh, I actually think
you're quite interesting.

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Anna.

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Oh, thanks Matt.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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And so No, no, don't, don't,
don't say you're boring.

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It's totally not true.

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Uh, share the love with
Anna in the comment.

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Tell her she's not boring.

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Uh, and uh, so

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Anna Kettle: I'm not saying I'm boring.

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I just think it's, it's more interesting
if everyone has something to say.

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Matt Edmundson: That's very true.

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That I agree with actually.

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I think the more the merrier, they comment

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Anna Kettle: More the merrier.

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Exactly.

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More interesting.

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We're democratic here, aren't we?

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Matt Edmundson: Is that what we are?

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I'm never quite sure if I

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That's brilliant.

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Yeah.

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The Democratic Church of Crowd.

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Welcome.

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Oh, brilliant.

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Absolutely brilliant.

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Do you know one of the things I'm
really curious about, um, there

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is on my, uh, soundboard in front
of me this voice digitizer thing

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that makes your voice deeper.

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So I'm just gonna press it,
uh, do it and see what happens.

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So, okay, so this makes
it, oh, that's better.

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Anna Kettle: It like, you've just
swallowed helium or something.

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Matt Edmundson: It does, yeah.

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Don't do the helium
thing it's, uh, public.

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Anna Kettle: Can it do my voice as well?

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Or can it not pick up over the computer?

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Matt Edmundson: Uh, no, it, I
think it won't do Your, should

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start next to you to do that.

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Yeah.

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I think you need like a proper microphone.

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Spoiler alert.

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I don't know, actually, I, I
think I've told you this, I've

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not told on the live stream yet.

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Spoiler alert.

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We have a new studio being built where
we will be able to host Crowd together in

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the same room, cuz this room here is tiny.

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Um, so yeah, we, we have a, a great sort
of project on the go, uh, which will

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be finished hopefully in the next few.

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I'm hoping by the end of this month.

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I think that might be, yeah.

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Anna Kettle: And then we'll be
like professional rather than

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doing it in our own like bedrooms.

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Matt Edmundson: Steady on.

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Don't.

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Anna Kettle: Well yeah,
let's not get too far.

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More professional than we are today.

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People more professional.

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Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

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That's, that's not, um, let's
not do ourselves too much.

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That's really funny.

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Professional.

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I've never used that word, but
we are building a studio and

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we'll have some more space.

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My deadline is the end of this month.

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I think that is optimistic.

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I think realistically probably in the
new year we'll be streaming from there.

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So, um, we'll find out.

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Anna Kettle: And then we'll be
able to do things like do silly

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voices together in the same room.

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Matt Edmundson: Absolutely.

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That's the plan.

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Yeah.

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So if you've just joined us and you think,
what on earth have I tuned into, uh, this,

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uh, believe it or not, we are an online
church, so it's great that you are here.

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Great.

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Um, to be with you on this Very chilly.

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Sunday evening, uh, we are now gonna
bring on the beautiful Sharon Edmundson,

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my gorgeous wife who is carrying
on our journey in John's gospel.

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After that will be a time of worship.

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Then as Anna said, we'll be
back for Conversation Street.

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Do write your comments and stuff.

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Uh, be great to hear from you.

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And one last time, if you are
on Facebook, there is a link

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for our YouTube live streaming.

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It'd be great if you
could join us on YouTube.

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We would love to see you in there
as we are migrating, pretty sure,

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uh, pretty sure Matt Edmundson is
sponsored by YouTube this week, by the

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amount of times he's promoted YouTube.

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Thanks, Matt.

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I should have a YouTube t-shirt.

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Uh, so yes.

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Brilliant.

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Right.

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Well, we will see you in YouTube,
uh, with the exception of Matt Crew.

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Lives can't be bothered.

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Uh, and so, um, yeah,
we'll be back after this.

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Here's Sharon.

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Sharon Edmundson: The passage of the Bible
we're gonna look at today is from the

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book of John chapter 14, verses 1 to 14.

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To give you some context for this
passage, Jesus is with his friends

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celebrating the Passover meal, which
is a meal that the Jews celebrate every

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year, remembering how God delivered the
Jewish people from Egypt, even though

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he's their leader, Jesus has washed
his friend's feet, which is the role

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of a servant, and one of the group has
just left in order to betray Jesus.

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And Jesus knew that he was being
betrayed and was about to face a brutal

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death, and that those still present
at the meal were about to abandon him

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to save their own necks, even though
they thought they were brave and up to

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everything and giving it all the talk.

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Talk about trauma.

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They were in for a really bad week
where everything they thought they

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knew would appear to fall apart.

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Have you ever felt like that?

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It's in this context that today's, um,
passage and the passage just before

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it, Jesus is preparing his close
friends, his followers, for the dark

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time that they're about to go through.

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Although his words were originally
meant for that specific group of people,

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they also speak to us today about
handling our own difficult situations.

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We'll also look briefly
at a couple of questions.

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Firstly, is Christianity
exclusive or inclusive?

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And secondly is the Christian faith,
a blind faith, a faith that believes

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despite evidence to the contrary?

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So how did Jesus prepare his
followers for the horror to come?

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He said this, do not let
your hearts be troubled.

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Uh, okay, thanks Jesus
for the great advice.

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It's okay.

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There is more.

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You believe in God, believe also in me.

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My father's house has many rooms.

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If that were not so, would I have told you
that I'm going there to prepare a place

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for you and if I go and prepare a place
for you, I'll come back and take you to be

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with me that you also may be where I am.

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You know the place that you know the
way to the place where I'm going.

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He's basically telling them not
to let their circumstances or

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their troubled feelings have
the last say in the situation

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because there's a bigger picture.

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Now, there are plenty of verses in
the Bible that talk about how God's

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concerned with the details of our lives.

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The Bible says that God cares
so much for us that even the

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hairs on our heads are numbered.

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That is a lot of care, especially in
our house where the vacuum cleaner has

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a really hard time keeping up with the
hairs that keep falling out of our heads.

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The Bible also says that we
can learn about God's character

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through the world that he's made.

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Now our eldest son Josh, is studying
theoretical physics at university, and

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I was talking with him one day about
the different branches of physics.

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One of them is quantum physics
and it deals with the smallest

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components of the universe.

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And then there's astrophysics, which looks
at the bigger picture of the universe.

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In quantum physics, we see God's
care for the minute details in the

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structure of molecules and atoms and
in astrophysics we see his care for the

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big picture in the awesomeness of our
galaxy and beyond and how everything

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is fine tuned to work together.

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So what's God's big picture
in terms of our lives?

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It's this, that there's more
to life than what we see now.

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And there's life after death.

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That all the things are that are
wrong in the world will be put right.

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That we will be able to live
with God in an amazing place

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that he's prepared for us.

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Have you ever felt like the
moment you're in as an eternity.

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I certainly have.

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Maybe you've been waiting for
your perfect job or your perfect

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partner and nothing's happening.

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Maybe you're going through cancer
treatment or you've got another

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long-term illness, or you've
lost someone that you love.

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God says, although things on earth can
be really tough, a better day is coming.

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Even if we get better days on
earth, that won't compare to what

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God has waiting for us in eternity.

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But back to our passage in John.

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So how do we get to this place
that Jesus is preparing for us?

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Thomas, one of the guys who was
with him asked the same question.

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Thomas said to him, Lord, we
don't know where you are going,

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so how can we know the way?

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Jesus answered I am the way
and the truth and the life.

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No one comes to the
Father except through me.

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If you really know me, you
will know my father as well.

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From now on, you do know
him and have seen him.

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Jesus is making three
claims about himself here.

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One, that he's the way, the only
way to God, two that he's the

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truth, and three that he's the life.

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Let's look at those three
things, one at a time.

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So number one, Jesus says he's
the way and that no one comes to

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the Father except through him.

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But hang on a minute.

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Isn't that a bit narrow minded?

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Don't all religions lead to God?

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Not according to Jesus.

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Jesus says he is the only way to God
because he's the only one with the

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real solution to the real problem.

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In this Christianity is exclusive.

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It excludes all other
possible ways to God.

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So what is the problem with the world?

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How would you answer that question?

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Jesus' disciples might have answered
that question by saying, the problem

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was that they were an oppressed
nation as they were being ruled by the

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Romans, and that that was the issue
that Jesus should be sorting out.

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There are many people today who would
say the same thing, not about the

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Romans, but that the problem with
the world, um, today is oppression.

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That one group is oppressing
another, that men are oppressing

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women, or that one ethnic group is
oppressing another, or that parents

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are oppressing children and so on.

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We all know that uh,
oppression is a reality.

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I think of a lady I know who came to
this country thinking that she had

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this great new job opportunity only
to find out that when she arrived in

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this country, she had her ID papers
taken off her by her host family who

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made her work for long hours for them.

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She wasn't allowed out.

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She wasn't allowed to learn the language.

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Her new job opportunity was
in fact, modern day slavery.

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Or we hear about the men who abuse
their wives and control everything

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that they do or the other way around,
and people are discriminated against

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because of the color of their skin.

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Maybe you've experienced one
of these forms of oppression.

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Jesus is against oppression.

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Psalm nine says this.

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He rules the world in righteousness
and judges the peoples with equity.

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The Lord is a refuge for the oppressed,
a stronghold in times of trouble.

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The Bible definition of oppression is
different to some of the definitions of

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oppression that are going around today.

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We're not necessarily being
oppressed if we're not allowed

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to do the things we want to do.

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For example, when our kids were
younger, they had a limit on the

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amount of TV they could watch.

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Um, every day.

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This rule wasn't popular with them,
and it did stop them watching the

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amount of TV that they would've liked.

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But the rule wasn't there to oppress them.

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It was there to help them to learn
to have healthy boundaries, and it

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was there to help them have a life.

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It's one I think I probably
need to relearn for myself.

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As I've gotten into bad habits during
covid and I still haven't kicked the

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habit however long later, that is.

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Um, we're not also necessarily
being oppressed if someone tells

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us that our lifestyle is wrong and
what they say makes us feel upset.

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If a friend of yours was convinced
that they'd just met the perfect

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man for them, but you knew he was an
abusive man, the loving thing to do

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00:18:56,255 --> 00:18:59,385
would be to warn your friend, even
if they didn't like what you had to

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say and thought you were interfering.

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00:19:01,875 --> 00:19:03,524
Love isn't just one dimensional.

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00:19:03,530 --> 00:19:07,575
It's not just about being patient and
kind and all those nice, fluffy things.

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00:19:07,905 --> 00:19:12,284
It's also about courage and justice
and confronting what is wrong.

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00:19:13,065 --> 00:19:18,014
Proverbs 27 verse 6 says, wounds
from a friend can be trusted,

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but an enemy multiplies kisses.

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00:19:23,205 --> 00:19:27,014
But although oppression is a problem
in the world, and as we've seen,

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God is against genuine oppression.

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Jesus could see a deeper problem, not just
in one group of people, but in all of us.

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That is the fact that we're all lost,
we're all spiritually dead, and we're

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all disconnected from God, and in that
Christianity is very in inclusive.

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We're all part of the problem.

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We're all included in that.

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We may not necessarily be oppressing
other people or be what we would

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consider the worst people on the planet,
but we've all missed God's standard.

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We all owe God a debt we can't pay.

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00:20:02,145 --> 00:20:06,165
I've heard it said many times, how
can a loving God send anyone to hell?

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00:20:06,885 --> 00:20:12,705
But how can a holy God and a just God
allow anyone who is unholy into heaven?

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00:20:13,455 --> 00:20:17,895
CS Lewis, the writer and theologian
said that God in his mercy doesn't

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thrust an eternity with him onto
people who've actively chosen to

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00:20:21,620 --> 00:20:23,295
live without him in this life.

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00:20:24,195 --> 00:20:28,635
You know, he passionately wants
all of us, but he lets us choose.

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00:20:29,715 --> 00:20:34,544
The Bible tells us that God himself came
down to earth in a human body as Jesus

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to pay the debt we owe so that he can
be both loving and just, and that anyone

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00:20:41,534 --> 00:20:45,645
who allows him to pay their debt for
them is able to stand in God's presence

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00:20:45,915 --> 00:20:48,825
now and be with him for eternity.

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00:20:49,274 --> 00:20:52,215
In this, Christianity is also inclusive.

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00:20:52,725 --> 00:20:56,895
The Bible says, for God so loved the
world that he gave his one and only

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00:20:56,895 --> 00:21:01,754
son, that whoever believes in him shall
not perish, but have eternal life.

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00:21:03,135 --> 00:21:08,895
The second claim that Jesus made about
himself here is that he is the truth.

435
00:21:09,345 --> 00:21:13,225
A popular phrase we hear nowadays
is you live your truth and I'll

436
00:21:13,245 --> 00:21:16,635
live mine, and there are some
good things about that statement.

437
00:21:17,145 --> 00:21:21,165
For example, when our son Josh first went
to university, on the very first night,

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00:21:21,465 --> 00:21:25,095
his flatmates decided to play a drinking
game that involved drinking lots of

439
00:21:25,095 --> 00:21:27,825
alcohol after various rounds of something.

440
00:21:28,425 --> 00:21:31,245
Uh, Josh didn't want to drink
loads of alcohol, so he said

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00:21:31,245 --> 00:21:32,895
he'd play the game with water.

442
00:21:33,315 --> 00:21:36,825
The others thought it was a little bit
unusual, but they were fine about it.

443
00:21:37,635 --> 00:21:41,985
In this case, live your own truth
is a helpful thing, and living your

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00:21:41,985 --> 00:21:45,915
own truth also allows people not
to have to conform to ever changing

445
00:21:45,915 --> 00:21:50,175
beauty standards, but there is a
negative side to live your truth.

446
00:21:50,625 --> 00:21:55,845
The implication to this statement is
often that truth isn't knowable, and

447
00:21:55,845 --> 00:22:00,105
it's whatever you decide, and that can
change from person to person and from

448
00:22:00,105 --> 00:22:02,625
day to day, and from emotion to emotion.

449
00:22:03,735 --> 00:22:08,205
That's okay if it's talking about food
preferences or study styles, but if it's

450
00:22:08,205 --> 00:22:14,145
talking about anything deeper than that,
Jesus says not only is truth knowable, but

451
00:22:14,145 --> 00:22:18,585
it's knowable not just on an intellectual
level, but on a relational level.

452
00:22:19,185 --> 00:22:22,575
He defines what is true and
what is good and what is right.

453
00:22:23,565 --> 00:22:26,085
And I've already done a talk
about Truth for Crowd, which you

454
00:22:26,085 --> 00:22:27,465
can listen to on our website.

455
00:22:27,465 --> 00:22:32,175
So I'm not gonna go into that, into
any more detail about that subject now.

456
00:22:33,585 --> 00:22:37,035
But, you know, the whole thing of,
um, truth, there've been times in my

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00:22:37,035 --> 00:22:41,265
life when I wasn't doing well mentally
or emotionally, and I felt like there

458
00:22:41,265 --> 00:22:45,435
was this mist where I couldn't see
anything around me and didn't know

459
00:22:45,945 --> 00:22:47,835
which way was up and which way was down.

460
00:22:47,835 --> 00:22:51,585
And I felt like a pilot in a cloud
who couldn't see anything out of the

461
00:22:51,585 --> 00:22:56,295
windows because of all the fog, and
had to rely on the instruments in

462
00:22:56,300 --> 00:22:58,455
front of them to tell them what's what.

463
00:22:58,965 --> 00:23:02,655
God's word was like that for
me, telling me what's true and

464
00:23:02,660 --> 00:23:05,475
showing me the step, um, each way.

465
00:23:06,795 --> 00:23:10,185
The third claim that Jesus made
about himself is that he's life.

466
00:23:10,395 --> 00:23:14,205
He's not about dead, boring
religion, but following him brings

467
00:23:14,205 --> 00:23:17,565
life, um, into every area of life.

468
00:23:17,745 --> 00:23:21,375
For example, the Bible says
that I'm made in God's image.

469
00:23:21,794 --> 00:23:26,415
That automatically gives me value
and significance just by existing,

470
00:23:26,415 --> 00:23:27,915
regardless of what I've done.

471
00:23:28,544 --> 00:23:31,635
And God says he's got a good plan
for my life, that I'm part of his

472
00:23:31,635 --> 00:23:33,915
body carrying out his plans on Earth.

473
00:23:34,485 --> 00:23:35,895
That gives me purpose.

474
00:23:36,524 --> 00:23:40,455
He tells me to take ownership for the
things I do and say that are wrong.

475
00:23:40,695 --> 00:23:42,764
He shows me how to forgive.

476
00:23:43,304 --> 00:23:46,905
Um, but not to facilitate
anyone's bad behavior.

477
00:23:46,995 --> 00:23:50,235
That gives me peace with people,
but it also gives good boundaries.

478
00:23:50,745 --> 00:23:53,865
And all of these things are
great for my mental health, which

479
00:23:53,870 --> 00:23:55,365
is a big thing at the moment.

480
00:23:55,995 --> 00:23:59,264
I could go on like every
area of life it impacts.

481
00:24:00,225 --> 00:24:05,264
But back to today's passage,
um, where we were talking about

482
00:24:05,264 --> 00:24:06,675
going through tough times.

483
00:24:07,004 --> 00:24:11,925
Have you ever thought, if only I
could just see God and hear his

484
00:24:11,925 --> 00:24:16,034
voice audibly, that will get,
get me through any tough time?

485
00:24:16,034 --> 00:24:17,325
That would be enough for me.

486
00:24:17,745 --> 00:24:18,764
I certainly have.

487
00:24:19,500 --> 00:24:22,230
Philip, one of the group
with Jesus thought this too.

488
00:24:22,379 --> 00:24:26,580
He said, Lord, show us the Father
and that will be enough for us.

489
00:24:27,060 --> 00:24:30,449
Jesus answered, don't you know
me, Philip, even after I've been

490
00:24:30,449 --> 00:24:32,250
among you for such a long time?

491
00:24:32,820 --> 00:24:35,100
Anyone who's seen me has seen the Father.

492
00:24:35,399 --> 00:24:37,230
How can you say, show us the Father?

493
00:24:38,129 --> 00:24:41,820
Don't you believe that I am in the
Father and that Father is in me?

494
00:24:42,120 --> 00:24:45,360
The words I say to you, I do
not speak on my own authority.

495
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:49,169
Rather, it's the Father living
in me who is doing his work.

496
00:24:50,550 --> 00:24:54,629
If you've ever wondered what God looks
like, look at Jesus in the Bible.

497
00:24:54,990 --> 00:24:57,720
He claims that He is
God come in human form.

498
00:24:58,379 --> 00:25:03,750
We can read about him, but we can also
experience God through His Holy Spirit.

499
00:25:04,709 --> 00:25:06,270
The next verses say this.

500
00:25:06,629 --> 00:25:09,990
Believe me when I say that I am
in my Father and the Father is

501
00:25:09,990 --> 00:25:14,040
in me, or at least believe on the
evidence of the work themselves.

502
00:25:15,419 --> 00:25:16,980
Jesus tells us to believe him.

503
00:25:17,550 --> 00:25:21,090
And contrary to what many people
think, Christianity isn't a case

504
00:25:21,090 --> 00:25:23,760
of believing despite the facts.

505
00:25:23,850 --> 00:25:28,050
Jesus says, if you can't believe
in me just because of my words

506
00:25:28,050 --> 00:25:31,649
alone, look at the evidence of
all the things that I've done.

507
00:25:33,030 --> 00:25:36,810
And, uh, you might, um, yeah.

508
00:25:36,810 --> 00:25:39,300
So he is looking, saying, you
can look at the evidence to

509
00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:41,610
support the claims that he's made.

510
00:25:42,629 --> 00:25:46,020
You might think, well, how can
I look at the evidence when all

511
00:25:46,020 --> 00:25:48,209
this stuff happened so long ago?

512
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:52,080
Well, I'd like to recommend a
book called Forensic Faith that

513
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:54,030
looks at those sort of questions.

514
00:25:54,270 --> 00:25:59,310
It's written by, it's written by a guy
called Jay Warner Wallace, and he's

515
00:25:59,310 --> 00:26:00,959
a homicide detective in the states.

516
00:26:00,959 --> 00:26:04,649
He specializes in cold cases,
in other words, murder cases

517
00:26:04,649 --> 00:26:06,449
that are old and unsolved.

518
00:26:06,929 --> 00:26:12,045
He was an atheist, but decided to
investigate the Christian faith as if it

519
00:26:12,045 --> 00:26:17,415
were one of his cold cases to prove that
it was a load of rubbish, but he actually

520
00:26:17,420 --> 00:26:22,005
found the evidence really compelling and
ended up committing his life to Jesus.

521
00:26:22,575 --> 00:26:27,465
One of the things he says is that in
any of his cases, he gathers all the

522
00:26:27,470 --> 00:26:33,285
evidence, but he's never a hundred percent
sure, but you can come to a conclusion

523
00:26:33,285 --> 00:26:35,295
where you are beyond reasonable doubt.

524
00:26:36,345 --> 00:26:39,885
There'll always be unanswered questions
and things we're not sure about,

525
00:26:40,515 --> 00:26:42,585
but it's the same for any worldview.

526
00:26:43,035 --> 00:26:48,795
It's the same if you are an atheist
or a Hindu or a Buddhist or whatever,

527
00:26:49,935 --> 00:26:51,735
and that's where faith comes in.

528
00:26:52,215 --> 00:26:55,935
With Christianity, evidence
takes us so far and faith

529
00:26:55,935 --> 00:26:57,405
takes us the rest of the way.

530
00:26:59,985 --> 00:27:04,965
Very truly, I tell you, whoever believes
in me will do the works I've been doing,

531
00:27:05,085 --> 00:27:08,535
and they will do even greater things than
these because I'm going to the father.

532
00:27:09,195 --> 00:27:12,405
And I'll do whatever you ask
in my name so that the father

533
00:27:12,405 --> 00:27:13,905
may be glorified in the son.

534
00:27:14,415 --> 00:27:17,475
You may ask me for anything
in my name and I'll do it.

535
00:27:18,225 --> 00:27:22,575
If you love me, keep my commands
and I will ask the father and he

536
00:27:22,575 --> 00:27:26,865
will give you another advocate to
help you and be with you forever.

537
00:27:27,315 --> 00:27:28,545
A spirit of truth.

538
00:27:30,195 --> 00:27:33,525
There are loads of things in here
that I don't have time to pick up

539
00:27:33,525 --> 00:27:38,955
on, uh, but the one thing I will pick
up on is that a friend from a Muslim

540
00:27:38,955 --> 00:27:44,565
background, once asked me If God just
forgives you for all this bad stuff

541
00:27:44,570 --> 00:27:49,275
you do, what is there to stop you from
carrying on doing all the bad stuff?

542
00:27:49,815 --> 00:27:53,325
The suggestion of the question
is that we only do good things so

543
00:27:53,325 --> 00:27:55,785
that God won't punish us first.

544
00:27:55,785 --> 00:27:57,945
15 that we just read tells us the answer.

545
00:27:58,245 --> 00:27:59,115
It's love.

546
00:27:59,535 --> 00:28:03,255
Love is a much healthier motivator
than fear in relationships.

547
00:28:03,555 --> 00:28:06,615
And when we give our lives to God,
he makes us new on the inside.

548
00:28:06,930 --> 00:28:08,910
So that we can do things out of love.

549
00:28:09,870 --> 00:28:11,010
Let me give you an example.

550
00:28:11,220 --> 00:28:15,180
So when our kids were small, they
often did the right thing to avoid the

551
00:28:15,180 --> 00:28:16,980
consequences of doing the wrong thing.

552
00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:18,780
And we made sure there were consequences.

553
00:28:19,290 --> 00:28:20,880
So it means so much more.

554
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,210
The times when they've like
offered to help me with something.

555
00:28:24,215 --> 00:28:28,350
Not because they have to, but because
they love me and they want to help.

556
00:28:28,350 --> 00:28:30,870
They've chosen to do it
out of their own free will.

557
00:28:31,590 --> 00:28:35,490
And as Christians, when we remember
who God is and how much he loves us, we

558
00:28:35,490 --> 00:28:37,560
don't do stuff to get him to love us.

559
00:28:37,620 --> 00:28:38,940
We already have His love.

560
00:28:39,390 --> 00:28:43,830
We do good things because he loved
his first and we love him back.

561
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,600
So we have a hope for the future,
but we also have a relationship

562
00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,060
with God himself in the present.

563
00:28:51,330 --> 00:28:52,895
And that is good news.

564
00:28:55,005 --> 00:32:26,574
Matt Edmundson: And welcome back to
Conversation Street with myself and

565
00:32:26,574 --> 00:32:29,365
Anna here at Crowd Online Church.

566
00:32:29,395 --> 00:32:31,465
A warm welcome to you
if you joined us all.

567
00:32:31,625 --> 00:32:32,995
Anna your lights are
doing funny things, eh?

568
00:32:33,395 --> 00:32:35,284
Anna Kettle: Yeah, that
was weird, wasn't it?

569
00:32:37,545 --> 00:32:38,475
Matt Edmundson: Spooky, spooky.

570
00:32:38,475 --> 00:32:39,855
Anna Kettle: The power of Crowd Church.

571
00:32:39,915 --> 00:32:40,935
Matt Edmundson: Do you
think that's what it is?

572
00:32:41,385 --> 00:32:43,034
I just thought it was an
electrical fluctuation.

573
00:32:43,034 --> 00:32:43,754
But let's go with that.

574
00:32:43,754 --> 00:32:44,254
Yours is much better.

575
00:32:44,254 --> 00:32:45,940
Anna Kettle: It's more we're
about to have a blackout.

576
00:32:46,311 --> 00:32:49,091
I'm not sure when.

577
00:32:49,091 --> 00:32:49,160
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

578
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:49,220
Yeah.

579
00:32:49,340 --> 00:32:51,375
So welcome to Crowd Online Church.

580
00:32:51,375 --> 00:32:53,445
If this is your first time
with us, warm welcome to you.

581
00:32:53,745 --> 00:32:58,665
If you are watching catch up, do
come and join us on Sundays as we

582
00:32:58,665 --> 00:33:01,425
live stream at 6:00 PM UK time.

583
00:33:01,430 --> 00:33:04,605
That's 1:00 PM Eastern Time.

584
00:33:05,115 --> 00:33:08,445
And if you are in other parts of the
world, if you head up to the website,

585
00:33:08,445 --> 00:33:12,585
Crowd Church, it has a little link
on there which tells you what time

586
00:33:12,585 --> 00:33:15,195
that is, according to your local
time, which is a wonderful thing.

587
00:33:15,195 --> 00:33:19,725
Be great if you come join us and
uh, yes, if you are watching live on

588
00:33:19,725 --> 00:33:23,965
Facebook, there is a link which you can
click, which will bring you to YouTube.

589
00:33:23,965 --> 00:33:26,804
uh, and you can join us on YouTube,
which may explain why there's not

590
00:33:26,804 --> 00:33:30,705
as many comments on Facebook, uh,
uh, because people have tuned into

591
00:33:30,705 --> 00:33:32,745
YouTube to help, uh, watch the service.

592
00:33:32,750 --> 00:33:35,804
We are sort of testing the
waters of whether we become

593
00:33:35,804 --> 00:33:37,845
YouTube only kind of livestream.

594
00:33:37,905 --> 00:33:39,345
So, uh, that's what we're doing.

595
00:33:39,345 --> 00:33:40,455
We're experimenting a little bit.

596
00:33:40,455 --> 00:33:42,165
So do come join us on YouTube.

597
00:33:42,165 --> 00:33:43,044
Great if you get there.

598
00:33:43,725 --> 00:33:48,075
Uh, so yes, Anna, Sharon's talk.

599
00:33:48,075 --> 00:33:49,185
Should we talk about that?

600
00:33:49,245 --> 00:33:50,635
I think I've got all the
notices out of the way.

601
00:33:51,215 --> 00:33:51,695
Anna Kettle: Yeah.

602
00:33:51,725 --> 00:33:52,445
Lets.

603
00:33:52,514 --> 00:33:54,044
I mean, there was a lot
in that, wasn't there?

604
00:33:54,315 --> 00:33:56,565
It's quite a, quite a deep talk.

605
00:33:56,565 --> 00:33:57,375
Lots of content.

606
00:33:57,375 --> 00:33:59,415
I, I thought there was
lots of challenge on there.

607
00:34:00,014 --> 00:34:01,655
Um, yeah, like.

608
00:34:02,895 --> 00:34:04,985
I dunno, it's hard to know
where to begin, isn't it?

609
00:34:04,985 --> 00:34:08,094
Matt Edmundson: It's um,
it's a fascinating subject.

610
00:34:08,455 --> 00:34:09,384
Yeah, it is.

611
00:34:09,464 --> 00:34:15,014
It's a big topic because it was a
massive claim made by Jesus, wasn't it?

612
00:34:15,105 --> 00:34:17,085
Uh, I am the way, the truth and the life.

613
00:34:17,089 --> 00:34:18,435
It was a huge claim.

614
00:34:18,975 --> 00:34:21,614
Uh, and then of course all the
stuff that Sharon talks about before

615
00:34:21,645 --> 00:34:26,324
Jesus sort of, uh, runs up to that
claim was also pretty significant.

616
00:34:26,324 --> 00:34:31,455
So yes, very meaty verses uh, so
do, lets know what you got out of

617
00:34:31,460 --> 00:34:35,114
that in the comments, uh, Miriam,
I got that you need to know life

618
00:34:35,114 --> 00:34:38,234
fully to find comfort in Jesus.

619
00:34:38,745 --> 00:34:39,375
That's fair play.

620
00:34:39,884 --> 00:34:40,725
That's a fair comment.

621
00:34:40,725 --> 00:34:41,044
Miriam.

622
00:34:41,044 --> 00:34:41,144
Yeah.

623
00:34:41,304 --> 00:34:41,505
Yeah, yeah.

624
00:34:41,895 --> 00:34:45,375
Uh, you've got to know, I think you've
got to know Jesus fully to find or got to

625
00:34:45,375 --> 00:34:46,875
know life fully, to find comfort in Jesus.

626
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,645
Or if you know Jesus fully, you find life.

627
00:34:48,674 --> 00:34:50,264
I think it works both ways around, right?

628
00:34:51,824 --> 00:34:52,125
Anna Kettle: Yeah.

629
00:34:53,835 --> 00:34:54,464
I am.

630
00:34:55,440 --> 00:34:59,370
I loved her, what she had to say
on like how, you know, like she

631
00:34:59,370 --> 00:35:01,800
started talking about the sort of
theme of oppression, didn't she?

632
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:02,470
And Yeah.

633
00:35:02,475 --> 00:35:02,490
Yeah.

634
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:06,030
But I loved what she had to say
about like how faith is inclusive.

635
00:35:06,030 --> 00:35:06,990
Mm-hmm.

636
00:35:06,996 --> 00:35:10,020
, um, in that the, like claims
that Jesus made were like that.

637
00:35:10,020 --> 00:35:15,480
We've all, we've all fallen short,
you know, like it's inclusive in

638
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:20,790
that the offer of salvation and
hope in Jesus is for everyone.

639
00:35:21,270 --> 00:35:28,830
Um, but also the claim that we've awful
and short is also applies to everyone.

640
00:35:28,830 --> 00:35:33,300
Even though suppose we're doing pretty
well as we are, it's not just for

641
00:35:33,305 --> 00:35:35,010
those that think they really need it.

642
00:35:35,010 --> 00:35:35,070
Yeah.

643
00:35:35,390 --> 00:35:38,580
But we, we're all,
we're all in need of it.

644
00:35:38,580 --> 00:35:43,560
And I know that that's kind of so,
so basic in some ways, isn't it?

645
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:47,910
Such a core part of our faith and
yet I think it's easy to, to forget.

646
00:35:50,235 --> 00:35:51,045
Matt Edmundson: Yeah,
I think you're right.

647
00:35:51,045 --> 00:35:52,155
It's an interesting one, isn't it?

648
00:35:52,155 --> 00:35:55,245
That when you think about this concept
of oppression, and Sharon said this,

649
00:35:55,245 --> 00:35:57,765
and I, I wrote it in the comments, so
I thought it was a wonderful comment

650
00:35:57,765 --> 00:36:00,945
that actually the Bible definition of
oppression is different to what we would

651
00:36:00,945 --> 00:36:02,955
probably currently use at the moment.

652
00:36:03,495 --> 00:36:10,275
Um, and we, we, there is part of society
that I think is very quick to use

653
00:36:10,275 --> 00:36:12,885
the word oppression, uh, for meaning.

654
00:36:12,885 --> 00:36:14,805
I don't like what you are saying to me.

655
00:36:15,195 --> 00:36:17,955
Uh, and it's, it's like, I don't
like what you're saying to me,

656
00:36:17,955 --> 00:36:19,185
therefore you're oppressing me.

657
00:36:19,190 --> 00:36:23,525
I think, I think we have to get over
ourselves a little bit in some respects.

658
00:36:23,525 --> 00:36:26,475
Sorry to step on people's toes,
because there are genuinely people

659
00:36:26,475 --> 00:36:28,755
who are oppressed out there.

660
00:36:29,175 --> 00:36:34,725
Uh, and I think it sometimes
makes a mockery out of, you

661
00:36:34,725 --> 00:36:36,375
know, genuine oppression.

662
00:36:36,825 --> 00:36:41,325
But it, I find, um, you
know, uh, cue comments now.

663
00:36:41,595 --> 00:36:47,325
Uh, but I find that, um, the, the
story of this fascinating because there

664
00:36:47,325 --> 00:36:49,860
were people who were being oppressed.

665
00:36:49,860 --> 00:36:52,020
And spoiler alert, again,
I'm, I'm planning Christmas'

666
00:36:52,020 --> 00:36:53,670
talk called How to Find Peace.

667
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,010
Finding Peace in Difficult Times,
I think is title of the Talk.

668
00:36:56,220 --> 00:36:56,540
Yes.

669
00:36:57,630 --> 00:37:00,360
And we're, we're gonna talk about this
a little bit in that, in the sense

670
00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:06,270
that, um, you have a bunch of people
who are oppressed, who are waiting for a

671
00:37:06,275 --> 00:37:09,150
Messiah to come and free them, you know?

672
00:37:09,155 --> 00:37:12,570
And what they're expecting is they're
expecting Messiah to come and take over

673
00:37:12,570 --> 00:37:16,740
their enemies and rule and reign with
fairness and justice, which obviously

674
00:37:16,950 --> 00:37:20,130
we think ultimately happens, but
didn't happen at the birth of Christ.

675
00:37:20,340 --> 00:37:22,920
The way that it happened at the birth
of Christ was Jesus came and said,

676
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,650
right, boys and girls, yeah, oppression.

677
00:37:25,710 --> 00:37:28,950
The best way to deal with this
is to look at your own hearts.

678
00:37:29,190 --> 00:37:32,640
And you kind of go, that's
not what I expected.

679
00:37:32,940 --> 00:37:36,190
Anna Kettle: And they were waiting for
like, you know, the Jewish people at the

680
00:37:36,195 --> 00:37:42,779
time of Christ birth, they were waiting
for a kind of religious like leader to

681
00:37:42,779 --> 00:37:45,990
rise up weren't they where a political
leader who would overthrow their kind of

682
00:37:46,420 --> 00:37:50,910
physical oppressors and kind of create
a new nation for them, as it were.

683
00:37:50,915 --> 00:37:54,330
So they were looking for like a
political hero who would rise up in

684
00:37:54,330 --> 00:37:58,529
power or like a, you know, overthrow
the Roman Empire as it was at the time.

685
00:37:58,580 --> 00:37:58,980
And mm-hmm.

686
00:37:59,060 --> 00:38:05,040
. And, you know, I still think we think
of power, um, kind of that overthrowing

687
00:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,460
of, you know, its, it's the whole
thing of the kingdom of God doesn't

688
00:38:08,460 --> 00:38:10,200
work the way we so often think.

689
00:38:10,470 --> 00:38:14,060
So it's like they're looking for this kind
of military power almost, weren't they?

690
00:38:14,060 --> 00:38:16,950
Someone who would come and
overthrow the current way that

691
00:38:16,950 --> 00:38:18,299
things were and the current order.

692
00:38:18,299 --> 00:38:22,500
And, and yet the way that
he comes is as a baby.

693
00:38:22,650 --> 00:38:26,370
And it's so counterculture to
the way we think, you know?

694
00:38:26,540 --> 00:38:31,020
And I think you can look at, you can
look at so much of the world now, and we

695
00:38:31,025 --> 00:38:35,640
still think, oh, the way that injustice
will be overthrown and that peace will

696
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:42,360
be brought on earth as through political
change or kind of change in ideologies,

697
00:38:42,450 --> 00:38:46,620
um, like, you know, and that would
happen where you, you know, we, we fall

698
00:38:46,620 --> 00:38:47,880
for it over and over again, don't we?

699
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:52,500
That idea that it's through war,
that it's through military or kind of

700
00:38:52,500 --> 00:38:58,530
political like overturning and people,
and I'm not saying any of these things

701
00:38:58,530 --> 00:39:02,190
are wrong, like God can work through
those things too, but like so often

702
00:39:02,250 --> 00:39:04,740
God comes in the small ways and Yeah.

703
00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:09,720
Um, and you are right Matt's, it's
like what Jesus teaches is that changes

704
00:39:09,720 --> 00:39:14,580
in your own heart and in the human
heart, not kind of in world systems.

705
00:39:14,630 --> 00:39:14,690
Yeah.

706
00:39:14,690 --> 00:39:20,340
Um, yeah, it's not, you know, the
change starts so much closer to

707
00:39:20,340 --> 00:39:23,895
home and I think, I think that's
kind of more than anything that's

708
00:39:23,895 --> 00:39:25,425
what the Christmas story teaches me.

709
00:39:25,975 --> 00:39:28,035
Probably like getting ahead of
ourselves a month here, aren't we?

710
00:39:29,395 --> 00:39:30,735
Matt Edmundson: You, you preach it, girl.

711
00:39:30,740 --> 00:39:32,385
You, I think you're totally right.

712
00:39:32,495 --> 00:39:32,655
Anna.

713
00:39:32,655 --> 00:39:35,865
And I think it's good to remember that,
especially in the UK at the moment

714
00:39:35,865 --> 00:39:41,505
with the political upheaval we have,
it's easy to blame politicians for

715
00:39:41,565 --> 00:39:42,975
problems that we are experiencing.

716
00:39:42,975 --> 00:39:46,665
And I hands up, I can do
that just as well as anybody.

717
00:39:46,755 --> 00:39:47,115
Right?

718
00:39:47,115 --> 00:39:50,775
I I, I'm good at those kind of
arguments and conversations, but

719
00:39:50,775 --> 00:39:54,165
fundamentally the, the answer to the
problems that we face is not found

720
00:39:54,170 --> 00:39:56,475
in a better leader, I don't think.

721
00:39:56,475 --> 00:39:58,815
I think the answer to the problems
that we face are found in Jesus.

722
00:39:58,820 --> 00:40:02,595
And the first thing that Jesus does is
he makes us examine in our own hearts.

723
00:40:02,925 --> 00:40:08,175
And um, and in that way, like Sharon
said, Christianity becomes insanely

724
00:40:08,415 --> 00:40:12,945
inclusive because it's like, well
actually, We've all gotta take

725
00:40:12,945 --> 00:40:14,295
our own piece of responsibility.

726
00:40:14,295 --> 00:40:15,945
It's easy to shift the blame.

727
00:40:16,335 --> 00:40:16,485
Yeah.

728
00:40:16,485 --> 00:40:17,115
Because guess what?

729
00:40:17,115 --> 00:40:19,305
That people group over there is
oppressing me because they say

730
00:40:19,305 --> 00:40:22,065
things that I don't like or therefore
you're oppressing No, no, no, no.

731
00:40:22,395 --> 00:40:25,995
Um, it's taking responsibility, isn't it?

732
00:40:25,995 --> 00:40:28,875
And saying, actually, no, I've
got a part to play in this.

733
00:40:28,905 --> 00:40:33,165
Both the, the both the reason that
we're here and also the solution.

734
00:40:33,675 --> 00:40:36,675
Um, and I don't think you
can get away from that.

735
00:40:36,795 --> 00:40:37,335
I really don't.

736
00:40:37,335 --> 00:40:39,305
I think it's quite a hard
hitting message, actually.

737
00:40:40,185 --> 00:40:40,365
Anna Kettle: Yeah.

738
00:40:40,365 --> 00:40:43,185
And you look at some of the big issues
we've got in the world today, like,

739
00:40:43,695 --> 00:40:49,035
like things like climate change and,
you know, big macro problems like Yeah.

740
00:40:49,065 --> 00:40:54,525
Climate change, like global wars and
arrest and economic issues that are

741
00:40:54,525 --> 00:40:57,675
international and um, and you just think.

742
00:40:58,800 --> 00:40:59,250
Yeah.

743
00:40:59,340 --> 00:40:59,910
They're big.

744
00:40:59,910 --> 00:41:02,130
And it's easy to say, oh,
it's nothing to do with me.

745
00:41:02,260 --> 00:41:03,630
I, I can't do anything.

746
00:41:03,690 --> 00:41:05,280
But isn't that the point?

747
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:10,740
Like we, if we all did a little bit,
things would change and, um, I don't know.

748
00:41:10,740 --> 00:41:14,220
I always think, you know, when, when
Sharon was talking about oppression

749
00:41:14,220 --> 00:41:17,850
before, it just made me think,
we so often think, don't we, we

750
00:41:17,850 --> 00:41:20,820
are not the oppressors, like, oh,
we're, we are not oppressing anyone.

751
00:41:20,940 --> 00:41:23,430
Like, yeah, I'm, I'm a good person.

752
00:41:23,430 --> 00:41:27,270
I'm not, you know, it's people
like Putin and Putin is obviously

753
00:41:27,275 --> 00:41:30,180
an oppressive regime at the
moment, his, the Russian regime.

754
00:41:30,180 --> 00:41:33,690
But, you know, it's easy to, to
like just look at the big oppression

755
00:41:33,695 --> 00:41:34,650
that's happening globally.

756
00:41:35,310 --> 00:41:40,320
But actually we're all part of a
system and economic global system

757
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:41,610
that oppresses other people.

758
00:41:41,615 --> 00:41:41,980
Mm-hmm.

759
00:41:42,060 --> 00:41:42,870
like we live in the West.

760
00:41:42,870 --> 00:41:47,190
So by, you know, when I actually
step back and think about it, just

761
00:41:47,195 --> 00:41:52,290
the way I shop, the way I live, you
know, in order for me to have plenty

762
00:41:52,290 --> 00:41:55,830
as you know, someone else is being
oppressed somewhere else in the world.

763
00:41:56,400 --> 00:41:59,580
With or without my, you know, I prefer
that wasn't the case, but that is

764
00:41:59,580 --> 00:42:00,930
the global system we're part of it.

765
00:42:00,930 --> 00:42:05,640
I mean, but like I go and shop for like
fashion in the UK and someone else on the

766
00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,600
other side of the world is being oppressed
in order to make my clothes cheaper.

767
00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:15,000
And, you know, we're all on
some level, um, implicit in it.

768
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,270
I know it's hard for, you know, it's,
and these are big issues, aren't they?

769
00:42:18,270 --> 00:42:22,509
And it's hard for us to, individually,
we can all make small consumer

770
00:42:22,515 --> 00:42:26,279
choices and small changes on
a sort of very personal level.

771
00:42:26,310 --> 00:42:30,390
But, you know, it's hard for us to
overturn those huge systems, uh,

772
00:42:30,450 --> 00:42:34,379
international and global and, and
just been going on for a long time.

773
00:42:34,379 --> 00:42:38,160
But at the same time, I don't think any
of us can wash our hands a bit and say,

774
00:42:38,165 --> 00:42:39,839
well, I'm not oppressing anyone else.

775
00:42:39,839 --> 00:42:43,710
Cuz I think it'd be very hard
for, you know, I'm holding my like

776
00:42:43,710 --> 00:42:46,319
iPhone here and it's like who's
been oppressed to build that iPhone.

777
00:42:46,950 --> 00:42:47,160
Yeah.

778
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:51,310
For me, you know, we all, the way
we live, um, you know, there's.

779
00:42:52,455 --> 00:42:53,835
It's built into the way our world is.

780
00:42:54,884 --> 00:42:57,404
I don't think any of us
get a kind of get out card.

781
00:42:57,725 --> 00:42:58,075
So.

782
00:42:58,515 --> 00:42:58,935
Yeah.

783
00:42:59,565 --> 00:42:59,865
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

784
00:42:59,865 --> 00:43:01,634
It's very true, very true.

785
00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:03,134
And a very hard hitting, isn't it?

786
00:43:03,140 --> 00:43:07,245
It's like Jesus uses this phrase, you
know, before you try and take the plank

787
00:43:07,245 --> 00:43:08,985
out somebody else's eye, look sorry.

788
00:43:08,985 --> 00:43:11,025
Before you take the speck out of
somebody else's eye, try and take

789
00:43:11,025 --> 00:43:13,694
that, you know, have a look at
the plank that's in your own eye.

790
00:43:14,205 --> 00:43:21,075
And that I think is one of the things
that when you come face to face with

791
00:43:21,075 --> 00:43:24,194
the gospel of Christ, that's one
of the things it causes you to do,

792
00:43:24,194 --> 00:43:28,424
is it causes you to reflect on your
own attitude, on your own lifestyle,

793
00:43:28,424 --> 00:43:30,045
and the own way that you do things.

794
00:43:30,345 --> 00:43:33,105
Um, And you, you can't escape it.

795
00:43:33,105 --> 00:43:36,645
It's super confrontational, uh,
you know, super confrontational.

796
00:43:37,065 --> 00:43:40,335
So let's get into, um,
what's Matt put here.

797
00:43:40,335 --> 00:43:43,935
Join us mid, join us for our midweek
Crowd Prayer Zoom 8:00 PM Wednesday.

798
00:43:43,935 --> 00:43:47,235
If you do wanna come join us, by
the way, our midweek groups, uh, do

799
00:43:47,240 --> 00:43:48,405
get in touch with us by the website.

800
00:43:48,405 --> 00:43:50,385
Let us know our WhatsApp,
which is also on the website.

801
00:43:50,385 --> 00:43:51,225
Crowd Church.

802
00:43:51,225 --> 00:43:52,215
I'll put the little link on there.

803
00:43:52,215 --> 00:43:53,205
Thanks for the reminder, Matt.

804
00:43:53,515 --> 00:43:56,775
Yes, but he's put here, join us
for our midweek Crowd prayers

805
00:43:56,775 --> 00:43:58,335
in 8:00 PM Wednesday UK time.

806
00:43:58,335 --> 00:43:59,205
That's 3:00 PM Eastern.

807
00:43:59,595 --> 00:44:03,045
Matt Edmundson will probably get us off
Zoom onto a poorer platform shortly for

808
00:44:03,045 --> 00:44:07,605
our midweek too, I think, Matt, you've
got issues, uh, about the Facebook thing.

809
00:44:07,875 --> 00:44:09,475
You need to let it go, bud.

810
00:44:11,625 --> 00:44:14,745
But I do appreciate what you're saying
and, um, you know, if you've got any

811
00:44:14,745 --> 00:44:17,815
thoughts on whether we should just be
YouTube only or whether we should actually

812
00:44:17,820 --> 00:44:19,095
still be on Facebook, do let us know.

813
00:44:19,125 --> 00:44:20,505
Genuinely would love to hear from you.

814
00:44:20,565 --> 00:44:21,535
Uh, it is an experiment.

815
00:44:22,545 --> 00:44:28,620
Um, so yeah, so, uh, Jesus being the way,
the truth and the life, and I think it

816
00:44:28,620 --> 00:44:34,410
was a really interesting, uh, paradox that
Sharon brought out here about how Jesus is

817
00:44:34,410 --> 00:44:39,960
in some ways quite exclusive, saying, I am
the way and excluding every other route to

818
00:44:39,965 --> 00:44:42,240
Christ, it started to rain really heavy.

819
00:44:42,240 --> 00:44:45,720
You might be able to hear this, uh, its
just properly bucking it down right now.

820
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:51,480
Uh, that might explain why your
powers going out, uh, Jesus.

821
00:44:51,480 --> 00:44:54,150
Anna Kettle: Well, this energy
we're having already running out.

822
00:44:55,390 --> 00:44:56,350
Hopefully not.

823
00:44:56,610 --> 00:44:58,470
Matt Edmundson: Get Andy
peddle on his bike quicker.

824
00:44:58,470 --> 00:44:59,670
Come on, more electricity.

825
00:45:00,060 --> 00:45:03,360
Uh, Andy is, Andy's Anna's husband,
by the way, who's, uh, on the,

826
00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:05,340
sorry, generating electricity, right?

827
00:45:05,910 --> 00:45:07,320
Um, so yeah.

828
00:45:07,325 --> 00:45:11,130
So in some respects, Jesus saying
I am the way is quite exclusive.

829
00:45:11,550 --> 00:45:15,360
Um, and people have a hardish
hardish time with that statement.

830
00:45:15,870 --> 00:45:20,910
Um, but also, uh, it's very inclusive
because he's, he's the way for everybody.

831
00:45:21,285 --> 00:45:21,585
Right.

832
00:45:21,585 --> 00:45:23,535
And, um, he doesn't leave anybody out.

833
00:45:23,535 --> 00:45:26,385
And it in effect, it comes
down to you, your choice.

834
00:45:26,385 --> 00:45:30,375
It's not a birth thing, it's not
a, um, you know, where you were

835
00:45:30,375 --> 00:45:31,515
born, what family you're with.

836
00:45:31,515 --> 00:45:32,835
It's actually, it's open to everybody.

837
00:45:32,835 --> 00:45:37,125
So at the same time, the gospel is both
inclusive, inclusive and exclusive.

838
00:45:37,130 --> 00:45:39,225
And I thought that was quite
interesting point she brought out.

839
00:45:39,455 --> 00:45:41,625
Anna Kettle: Mm, yeah, I think so.

840
00:45:41,685 --> 00:45:46,185
And you know, I mean, she picked up
a bit on this as well, but I think

841
00:45:46,185 --> 00:45:50,445
it's, it's quite a, as you said, it's
a really bold statement to make in

842
00:45:50,445 --> 00:45:55,275
this kind of worldview that we live
in now where it's like, well, that's

843
00:45:55,275 --> 00:45:58,695
your truth and this is mine and we
can all believe something different.

844
00:45:58,695 --> 00:46:02,765
And all of it's true and, you know,
laugh about Facebook, but you.

845
00:46:03,330 --> 00:46:05,580
Algorithms give people different truths.

846
00:46:05,670 --> 00:46:09,900
You know, half, you know, I'm not,
I don't wanna get too political, but

847
00:46:09,900 --> 00:46:13,920
like half of America thinks one person
won the last election and the other

848
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:17,130
half of America think the other person
won and they can't both have won.

849
00:46:17,130 --> 00:46:18,840
Somebody won and someone lost that.

850
00:46:19,110 --> 00:46:19,290
Yeah.

851
00:46:19,290 --> 00:46:21,030
So not both those things can be true.

852
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:23,100
Like he's right and he's wrong.

853
00:46:23,100 --> 00:46:28,870
And then I think we live in this weird
world where we believe that we like it.

854
00:46:28,870 --> 00:46:30,270
It sounds inclusive, doesn't it?

855
00:46:30,275 --> 00:46:33,600
Say, well, everyone's right, but
actually when you really comes down

856
00:46:33,830 --> 00:46:38,730
to, to push and shove like somebody,
there has to be an ultimate truth there.

857
00:46:38,790 --> 00:46:40,590
Not everyone can be, right?

858
00:46:40,590 --> 00:46:42,630
If two people are saying
the opposite things.

859
00:46:42,670 --> 00:46:42,950
Mm-hmm.

860
00:46:43,075 --> 00:46:47,310
like, you know, it's not just, you
could say to a Republican who's

861
00:46:47,315 --> 00:46:48,960
saying Trump won the last election.

862
00:46:49,470 --> 00:46:53,340
You could say, well that's your truth and
it's right for you, but you know, it's

863
00:46:53,340 --> 00:46:57,000
got to be right for the whole of America
because it, that's how democracy works.

864
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,030
And actually when you follow
that argument through, it doesn't

865
00:47:00,030 --> 00:47:02,895
make huge intellectual sense.

866
00:47:02,955 --> 00:47:04,815
And then I love what she said about it.

867
00:47:04,935 --> 00:47:08,655
It's both intellectual and it's,
but it's also a relational truth.

868
00:47:08,665 --> 00:47:09,265
Mm-hmm..

869
00:47:09,345 --> 00:47:10,815
Um, and I think that's the thing.

870
00:47:10,815 --> 00:47:15,165
It's like, it doesn't make total
intellectual sense when you, you

871
00:47:15,165 --> 00:47:19,215
follow that argument through, but
also, it doesn't make relational

872
00:47:19,220 --> 00:47:21,945
sense either, because like Yeah.

873
00:47:21,945 --> 00:47:25,785
It's, it's a personal, it's
a personal truth that you

874
00:47:25,785 --> 00:47:28,185
experienced and like, um, yeah.

875
00:47:29,115 --> 00:47:29,805
Matt Edmundson: No, it's true.

876
00:47:29,925 --> 00:47:30,285
Yeah.

877
00:47:30,285 --> 00:47:31,425
Well, it's funny, isn't it?

878
00:47:31,425 --> 00:47:31,820
It's true.

879
00:47:31,820 --> 00:47:38,505
Is, and I find it fascinating, this
whole, you know, in effect you have

880
00:47:38,505 --> 00:47:43,365
said something, I don't like it
because it has consequences for me.

881
00:47:44,265 --> 00:47:45,795
Therefore I feel oppressed.

882
00:47:45,855 --> 00:47:49,395
And therefore what I'm gonna say
is that's, that's your truth.

883
00:47:49,935 --> 00:47:51,165
That's not my truth.

884
00:47:51,285 --> 00:47:54,285
And actually, we, we've substituted
the word truth with experience.

885
00:47:54,345 --> 00:47:55,305
In other words, that's your experience.

886
00:47:55,305 --> 00:47:56,295
That's not my experience.

887
00:47:56,300 --> 00:47:56,585
Right.

888
00:47:56,895 --> 00:47:59,415
Um, and we start saying,
you know, live your truth.

889
00:48:00,690 --> 00:48:06,450
Which, like you, I find very peculiar
in a lot of ways because how can

890
00:48:06,450 --> 00:48:12,569
you, how can, how can both sides of
the presidential debate be right?

891
00:48:12,575 --> 00:48:13,200
They can't.

892
00:48:13,470 --> 00:48:13,799
Right.

893
00:48:13,830 --> 00:48:14,040
Yeah.

894
00:48:14,580 --> 00:48:16,980
It's a really, I think
it's you're spot on.

895
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:19,980
Anna Kettle: Also, even when you take
it to a more personal level than that,

896
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:25,799
it's like, how can, like we all, we
all believe at some level as kind of

897
00:48:25,805 --> 00:48:31,230
unorganized society, that there's, there's
things that are true and false, that

898
00:48:31,234 --> 00:48:32,520
there's things that are good and bad.

899
00:48:32,850 --> 00:48:37,710
There's also, there's certain behaviors
and things that we all agree are wrong,

900
00:48:37,740 --> 00:48:41,819
like you shouldn't murder someone, you
know, know, and, and, and we live in a

901
00:48:41,819 --> 00:48:47,160
lawful society where, because we all say
there's an ultimate truth, that certain

902
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:48,930
things are okay and certain things aren't.

903
00:48:48,930 --> 00:48:55,425
So I think at some level everybody
would agree that there is, there is

904
00:48:55,425 --> 00:48:58,755
an absolute, there is a right and a
wrong, A black and a white somewhere.

905
00:48:58,995 --> 00:49:03,405
Yeah, of course there's lots of areas
that are more gray, but it, it just feels

906
00:49:03,405 --> 00:49:08,445
to me that it's disingenuous, genuine,
and like, you can't really argue that

907
00:49:08,445 --> 00:49:12,765
through, and nobody really wants to
live in a society where there's no truth

908
00:49:12,855 --> 00:49:15,345
and there's no absolute right or wrong.

909
00:49:15,435 --> 00:49:19,635
Um, it sounds nice when, as you
say, it's like, therefore I don't

910
00:49:19,635 --> 00:49:22,575
have to be challenged on anything.

911
00:49:22,815 --> 00:49:25,935
But actually when you follow
that through to conclusion,

912
00:49:25,985 --> 00:49:27,585
nobody really believes that.

913
00:49:27,590 --> 00:49:28,365
I don't think.

914
00:49:29,285 --> 00:49:31,665
Not when you look at the big picture.

915
00:49:32,265 --> 00:49:32,475
Matt Edmundson: Yeah.

916
00:49:32,545 --> 00:49:34,875
Like you say, there are certain
things that they'll go, well, no,

917
00:49:34,875 --> 00:49:36,945
that, of course that's, you're right.

918
00:49:36,945 --> 00:49:38,175
You can't murder somebody.

919
00:49:38,745 --> 00:49:45,015
And why would we call Putin's war an
unjust war if there was no absolute truth

920
00:49:45,525 --> 00:49:47,235
Or if there was no objective morality?

921
00:49:47,235 --> 00:49:50,835
Because it's kind of like, well,
what ha, what makes it unjust?

922
00:49:51,045 --> 00:49:51,535
Yeah.

923
00:49:51,540 --> 00:49:52,785
Do you mean answer me that question?

924
00:49:52,785 --> 00:49:55,695
He was, in some respects, he was
responding to the fact he didn't want

925
00:49:55,695 --> 00:49:57,835
the Ukraine to join forces with Nato.

926
00:49:58,035 --> 00:49:58,335
Right.

927
00:49:58,335 --> 00:50:01,305
He felt in, I don't know
what Putin felt to be fair.

928
00:50:01,845 --> 00:50:10,095
I opinions on that aside, but it's that
kind of thing where, um, his truth or

929
00:50:10,095 --> 00:50:14,355
his, his understanding of facts is very
different to the rest of the world.

930
00:50:14,384 --> 00:50:14,945
Right.

931
00:50:14,945 --> 00:50:17,055
And he, and you know,
and we call it unjust.

932
00:50:17,055 --> 00:50:18,415
He calls it just and righteous.

933
00:50:18,435 --> 00:50:20,055
He is freeing the oppressed.

934
00:50:20,085 --> 00:50:20,415
Right.

935
00:50:20,985 --> 00:50:24,735
Um, and so again, we can't both be right.

936
00:50:25,125 --> 00:50:25,455
And so,

937
00:50:25,455 --> 00:50:27,045
Anna Kettle: well we call
it fake news, don't we?

938
00:50:27,045 --> 00:50:27,785
Yeah, we do.

939
00:50:27,790 --> 00:50:31,695
And you know, Trump talks a lot about
this as well, but we call it fake news.

940
00:50:31,695 --> 00:50:34,815
So he's telling his country
a whole different version of

941
00:50:34,815 --> 00:50:36,495
reality to the rest of the world.

942
00:50:37,095 --> 00:50:40,875
And, you know, because of
carefully owned state media mm-hmm.

943
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,425
they hear a very different truth to us.

944
00:50:43,425 --> 00:50:45,865
But not both of those sides can be true.

945
00:50:45,865 --> 00:50:46,345
Can they?

946
00:50:46,345 --> 00:50:46,705
It's.

947
00:50:47,430 --> 00:50:47,760
Yeah.

948
00:50:47,760 --> 00:50:52,140
No, and it's, uh, I just find, I find
it fascinating and I just, yeah, I

949
00:50:52,140 --> 00:50:57,450
think we've kind of bought this view
quite a lot in certainly my generation

950
00:50:57,455 --> 00:51:03,180
and younger, younger generations,
uh, millennials and what have you.

951
00:51:03,210 --> 00:51:08,640
But, um, yeah, I, I just don't, I
don't think it's all that helpful.

952
00:51:08,700 --> 00:51:13,530
Uh, I, yeah, I just think actually when
you step back from it, it sounds nice,

953
00:51:13,530 --> 00:51:21,120
but it doesn't actually, yeah, it doesn't
actually lead to like the way, the

954
00:51:21,125 --> 00:51:25,260
truth and the life as Jesus said, like
there has to be an absolute to, to find

955
00:51:25,260 --> 00:51:30,360
the way the truth and the life Doesn't
there like has to be an absolute, um,

956
00:51:30,810 --> 00:51:34,495
Matt Edmundson: there does, and it's an, I
think it's an interesting order of words.

957
00:51:34,945 --> 00:51:38,310
You start with Jesus being the way you
then end up with Jesus being the truth,

958
00:51:38,310 --> 00:51:40,860
and you end up with Jesus being the life.

959
00:51:40,860 --> 00:51:44,640
And it's kind of like there is this
routine which says, I somehow have

960
00:51:44,640 --> 00:51:48,000
to wrestle with the fact that Jesus
is who he says he is, or he isn't.

961
00:51:48,180 --> 00:51:48,509
Right.

962
00:51:49,140 --> 00:51:51,279
Because he makes this statement,
I'm the way, the truth and the life.

963
00:51:51,279 --> 00:51:53,029
He's either lying or he is not right.

964
00:51:53,100 --> 00:51:54,240
He can't, he can't.

965
00:51:54,270 --> 00:51:58,319
He can't be a nice guy because he is
either a blatant liar or a lunatic, or

966
00:51:58,319 --> 00:52:00,210
he is actually telling the truth, right?

967
00:52:00,810 --> 00:52:03,450
And it's not just, you know,
my truth or Jesus's truth.

968
00:52:03,455 --> 00:52:04,710
It's just common sense.

969
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,700
And so you wrestle with this
idea is Jesus the way, and then

970
00:52:08,700 --> 00:52:10,319
you are confronted with truth.

971
00:52:10,620 --> 00:52:13,410
And so you then wrestle with
the fact, well, am I gonna live

972
00:52:13,410 --> 00:52:16,140
my life according to His truth?

973
00:52:16,290 --> 00:52:18,509
According to the truth of Christ?

974
00:52:19,230 --> 00:52:22,110
And this is where a lot of people struggle
because a lot of people want control.

975
00:52:22,110 --> 00:52:23,790
And it's like, no, no, I
wanna make my own choices.

976
00:52:23,790 --> 00:52:25,830
And it's like, well, you can
still make your own choices, but

977
00:52:25,830 --> 00:52:28,710
there's a fundamental truth there
that we have to surrender to.

978
00:52:29,640 --> 00:52:33,360
And if we do that, then
I think we find life.

979
00:52:34,665 --> 00:52:38,295
But I think a lot of people are wanting
to skip the way and the truth and just

980
00:52:38,295 --> 00:52:39,825
go straight to having a great life.

981
00:52:39,885 --> 00:52:44,355
And so if I ignore the rest of
it, um, I, there's no truth.

982
00:52:44,415 --> 00:52:47,775
And Jesus is not the only way,
uh, my way is the right way for

983
00:52:47,775 --> 00:52:50,085
me, uh, because that's my truth.

984
00:52:50,085 --> 00:52:53,835
Then surely I have found life and
you kind of go, have you really?

985
00:52:53,835 --> 00:52:54,645
I don't know.

986
00:52:55,695 --> 00:52:56,295
Do you know what I mean there?

987
00:52:57,375 --> 00:53:00,015
There seems to be some kind of
structure in the statement here.

988
00:53:00,315 --> 00:53:01,725
Maybe I'm over analyzing it.

989
00:53:01,725 --> 00:53:02,115
I don't know.

990
00:53:02,115 --> 00:53:04,125
Anna Kettle: Yeah, I
think that's interesting.

991
00:53:04,125 --> 00:53:06,795
I think in a sense they do follow
on from each other, don't they?

992
00:53:06,795 --> 00:53:12,705
And um, yeah, and I think what
you end up with, if you follow

993
00:53:12,705 --> 00:53:18,135
that three to conclusion is like,
so choose my way and my truth.

994
00:53:18,225 --> 00:53:20,055
And then what I'm left with is my life.

995
00:53:20,115 --> 00:53:24,405
The life I've already got,
not the life, the eternal life

996
00:53:24,525 --> 00:53:25,925
that, you know, God offers.

997
00:53:25,925 --> 00:53:28,815
It's the fullness of
life that Jesus promises.

998
00:53:28,820 --> 00:53:29,005
Mm-hmm.

999
00:53:29,085 --> 00:53:34,395
, it's like what you end up with is just
the life you have as I is your life,

1000
00:53:34,395 --> 00:53:38,565
your kind of, your, your way, your truth.

1001
00:53:38,655 --> 00:53:42,015
But it's not eternal life and
it's not fullness of life.

1002
00:53:42,015 --> 00:53:43,755
It's just, I don't know.

1003
00:53:43,995 --> 00:53:44,295
Yeah.

1004
00:53:44,300 --> 00:53:47,265
It's, it, yeah.

1005
00:53:47,625 --> 00:53:50,745
It's, um, but I don't think you
can mix a two together, can you?

1006
00:53:50,745 --> 00:53:53,295
And somehow get to eternal life.

1007
00:53:54,795 --> 00:53:57,315
Matt Edmundson: Not according
to, um, not according to Jesus.

1008
00:53:57,645 --> 00:54:01,365
Uh, you know, you may have a
different, you, I know there's

1009
00:54:01,365 --> 00:54:04,365
people gonna be listening to
this going, guys, just come on.

1010
00:54:04,395 --> 00:54:05,655
You can't think that way anymore.

1011
00:54:05,655 --> 00:54:13,035
And I'm, but it's, I struggle with
this, um, be your own truth, because

1012
00:54:13,235 --> 00:54:16,815
it is so uncertain and because I, I'm
gonna change my opinion every other day.

1013
00:54:16,845 --> 00:54:19,875
I cuz my feelings, my emotions
change every other day, right?

1014
00:54:19,875 --> 00:54:22,560
So what am I basing my life on?

1015
00:54:23,050 --> 00:54:28,755
And I think one of the things that we
would say that characterizes Christians,

1016
00:54:28,905 --> 00:54:34,125
um, certainly here at Crowd is actually
we base our life on the truth of God.

1017
00:54:34,125 --> 00:54:41,865
That we, as much as we can submit to his
truth, we're gonna, we're gonna find out

1018
00:54:41,870 --> 00:54:43,785
a lot more about what that actually is.

1019
00:54:43,905 --> 00:54:44,325
Um, yeah.

1020
00:54:44,325 --> 00:54:48,105
You know, and some of the statements that
Jesus continues to make, uh, as we go

1021
00:54:48,105 --> 00:54:52,185
through the gospel of John, as in the new
year, we're gonna hit the book of Acts.

1022
00:54:52,515 --> 00:54:55,815
Um, and we're gonna find some
incredible stuff, uh, in there.

1023
00:54:55,815 --> 00:54:57,405
And it's not all bad
news, let me tell you.

1024
00:54:57,405 --> 00:54:58,845
It's actually all good news.

1025
00:54:59,235 --> 00:55:02,325
Uh, and it's, it's all wonderful stuff.

1026
00:55:02,715 --> 00:55:04,725
Um, but I think that that
should be one of the things that

1027
00:55:04,725 --> 00:55:08,985
characterizes as Christians, is we
actually go, there is a version.

1028
00:55:09,015 --> 00:55:11,025
I always describe it like this, right?

1029
00:55:11,865 --> 00:55:13,215
Let's take a little quiz.

1030
00:55:13,785 --> 00:55:14,145
Mrs.

1031
00:55:14,845 --> 00:55:15,485
Kettle.

1032
00:55:15,795 --> 00:55:17,325
This is not a trick question.

1033
00:55:17,685 --> 00:55:21,585
Uh, lemme just clarify, I'm not trying
to catch you out . If I was to ask you.

1034
00:55:21,585 --> 00:55:23,275
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1035
00:55:23,280 --> 00:55:25,605
How fast are you traveling right now?

1036
00:55:27,555 --> 00:55:32,895
Anna Kettle: Um, well, I'm sitting still,
but I suppose I'm traveling if I'm, if

1037
00:55:32,895 --> 00:55:34,635
the earth is spinning and I'm on it.

1038
00:55:35,385 --> 00:55:36,395
Matt Edmundson: Exactly right.

1039
00:55:36,395 --> 00:55:41,715
So you are sitting still, so relative to
everything around you, you are not moving.

1040
00:55:42,465 --> 00:55:45,105
But if you look at how fast the earth
spins, do you know how fast it spins?

1041
00:55:45,765 --> 00:55:46,875
I have not a clue.

1042
00:55:47,355 --> 00:55:49,395
Thousand miles an hour
There or thereabouts.

1043
00:55:50,055 --> 00:55:51,645
So if I say to you, how
fast are you traveling?

1044
00:55:51,645 --> 00:55:54,015
And you say to me, I'm moving at
about a thousand miles an hour,

1045
00:55:54,525 --> 00:55:57,315
actually, it's probably quite
a reasonable statement to make.

1046
00:55:57,525 --> 00:55:59,175
And then you think about,
well, hang on a minute.

1047
00:55:59,175 --> 00:56:01,125
The earth orbits the sun.

1048
00:56:02,205 --> 00:56:04,215
Do you know how fast the
earth orbits the sun?

1049
00:56:05,535 --> 00:56:09,135
No, I think it's just shy of
around 30,000 miles an hour.

1050
00:56:09,135 --> 00:56:09,315
Wow.

1051
00:56:10,205 --> 00:56:14,880
Uh, and so, uh, I've never been done
for speeding and had to go to court.

1052
00:56:15,210 --> 00:56:18,450
Uh, but part of me is tempted
if that ever did hap ever did

1053
00:56:18,450 --> 00:56:19,570
happen and the dude says to me.

1054
00:56:19,590 --> 00:56:20,470
How fast were you traveling?

1055
00:56:20,490 --> 00:56:21,930
I go about 30,000 miles, your Honor.

1056
00:56:22,470 --> 00:56:22,800
Uh.

1057
00:56:23,820 --> 00:56:25,530
See what, see what
finds you come out with.

1058
00:56:25,530 --> 00:56:26,460
No, don't do that, honestly.

1059
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:31,710
Uh, but it in one sense, this, here's
the thing relative to how I feel

1060
00:56:31,710 --> 00:56:33,570
right now, I'm not moving right.

1061
00:56:34,020 --> 00:56:39,870
But it, when I understand the truth that
is beyond my circumstance and beyond what

1062
00:56:39,875 --> 00:56:42,390
I feel, I have a different understanding.

1063
00:56:42,390 --> 00:56:45,120
If I understood how fast the
galaxy was spinning, maybe I'd

1064
00:56:45,120 --> 00:56:46,560
have an even bigger understanding.

1065
00:56:47,010 --> 00:56:52,050
And what we're saying is, is the
ultimate truth is Christ, right?

1066
00:56:52,260 --> 00:56:55,050
And that there are things
that we perceive to be true.

1067
00:56:55,410 --> 00:56:58,590
But actually when we take a step back
and look at things in the context

1068
00:56:58,590 --> 00:57:02,340
of Christ, there is absolute truth.

1069
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:04,890
And that's why we say that
there is absolute truth and

1070
00:57:04,890 --> 00:57:05,970
that that truth is Jesus.

1071
00:57:05,970 --> 00:57:06,660
Does that make sense?

1072
00:57:07,379 --> 00:57:07,950
Anna Kettle: It does.

1073
00:57:07,950 --> 00:57:10,299
It's a really good way of
looking at it actually.

1074
00:57:10,299 --> 00:57:12,569
I hadn't thought about it like
that before, but perspective

1075
00:57:12,569 --> 00:57:13,500
is everything, isn't it?

1076
00:57:13,620 --> 00:57:13,819
Mm-hmm.

1077
00:57:13,899 --> 00:57:18,629
, like we only see life through the
narrow perspective of our worldview

1078
00:57:18,629 --> 00:57:19,950
and the way we look at life.

1079
00:57:20,399 --> 00:57:24,299
But God's perspective is so much
bigger than ours and so much, you

1080
00:57:24,299 --> 00:57:25,799
know, it's much wider lens, isn't it?

1081
00:57:25,799 --> 00:57:26,250
As it were.

1082
00:57:26,250 --> 00:57:27,000
Mm-hmm.

1083
00:57:27,000 --> 00:57:30,660
. And, um, we only see part of the truth
and that that's what the Bible says.

1084
00:57:30,660 --> 00:57:36,149
And he sees the whole of truth, the whole
of tying the whole of the story in one go.

1085
00:57:36,279 --> 00:57:41,220
And we only see that tiny moment that
we are in now and how we feeling it

1086
00:57:41,220 --> 00:57:46,230
and I don't know to make that, the
center point of all of it seems a

1087
00:57:46,230 --> 00:57:48,120
little bit ego-centric, doesn't it?

1088
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:49,230
And small.

1089
00:57:49,230 --> 00:57:50,220
Matt Edmundson: It really does.

1090
00:57:50,340 --> 00:57:52,360
It, it it really is.

1091
00:57:52,530 --> 00:57:54,060
Egocentric is a great word.

1092
00:57:54,360 --> 00:57:55,230
It is a great word.

1093
00:57:55,920 --> 00:57:59,580
Pete Farrington, uh, gave a great example
a couple of weeks ago when he talked about

1094
00:57:59,580 --> 00:58:01,980
his little lad and he said, you know what?

1095
00:58:01,980 --> 00:58:04,170
My little lad, I think it's two
years old, something like that.

1096
00:58:04,170 --> 00:58:06,030
Little cute little boy actually.

1097
00:58:06,450 --> 00:58:14,430
Uh, and he says, um, he was talking about
how when he disciplines his son, his son

1098
00:58:14,435 --> 00:58:19,620
has a very limited view of what is right
and what is proper and what is good.

1099
00:58:19,860 --> 00:58:23,220
And so when he takes something away
from his two year old son and he kicks

1100
00:58:23,220 --> 00:58:26,760
up a fuss, the opinion of his two
year old son is, this is not right.

1101
00:58:26,760 --> 00:58:30,990
But him as a father has a slightly
bigger view of what's best for his son.

1102
00:58:30,990 --> 00:58:32,610
It's not like Pete's
trying to hack him off.

1103
00:58:32,940 --> 00:58:35,880
He's just doing what he thinks is
the right thing to do to be a parent.

1104
00:58:36,060 --> 00:58:38,680
And I think we are like
that two year old kid.

1105
00:58:39,255 --> 00:58:40,634
Thrown a tantrum quite often.

1106
00:58:40,634 --> 00:58:41,035
Yeah.

1107
00:58:41,035 --> 00:58:41,235
Often.

1108
00:58:41,240 --> 00:58:45,855
And we just don't see the bigger
picture, the, the truth of God

1109
00:58:45,855 --> 00:58:47,085
and, and stretching that out.

1110
00:58:47,085 --> 00:58:51,645
So Anna, listen, as you
said, we're talkers.

1111
00:58:52,555 --> 00:58:52,795
Yeah.

1112
00:58:53,970 --> 00:58:55,050
We are talkers.

1113
00:58:55,050 --> 00:58:56,430
We do like to have a conversation.

1114
00:58:56,430 --> 00:58:57,420
Thank you, uh, for that.

1115
00:58:57,690 --> 00:58:58,110
Yeah, it's good.

1116
00:58:58,380 --> 00:58:59,160
I enjoyed that.

1117
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:00,990
There's some good
systematic theology there.

1118
00:59:00,990 --> 00:59:04,500
So, uh, if you are still with us,
it's great that you are still here.

1119
00:59:04,500 --> 00:59:08,820
If you are watching on catch up, do come
and join us on the live streams and this

1120
00:59:08,820 --> 00:59:10,530
way you get to join in the conversations.

1121
00:59:10,620 --> 00:59:11,940
Uh, see, Sarah's been on the comment.

1122
00:59:12,450 --> 00:59:17,010
Uh, Matt says we're heading over to
YouTube only within the next few weeks.

1123
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:20,610
Uh, we won't be able to have the same
level of banter due to the public arena of

1124
00:59:20,860 --> 00:59:24,300
the platform, but we'll have the memories
that Facebook livestreams gave us.

1125
00:59:24,390 --> 00:59:29,160
So, uh, if you're wondering what Matt
is talking about, we are, uh, uh, sort

1126
00:59:29,165 --> 00:59:34,110
of moving away from doing both YouTube
and Facebook to just focus on our

1127
00:59:34,110 --> 00:59:37,440
livestream on YouTube, and we're gonna
experiment and see how that's going.

1128
00:59:37,440 --> 00:59:38,910
So, uh, do come join.

1129
00:59:38,910 --> 00:59:42,450
We will post links still on Facebook
and links to the YouTube channel

1130
00:59:42,455 --> 00:59:45,060
and all that sort of stuff, so
you will be able to come join us.

1131
00:59:45,060 --> 00:59:49,260
But if you haven't done so already,
head over to YouTube, subscribe to Crowd

1132
00:59:49,260 --> 00:59:53,640
Church, get the little bell notification
and, um, and when we're live, it will

1133
00:59:53,640 --> 00:59:56,430
come up hopefully on your little phone
and, and tell you that we're live and

1134
00:59:56,430 --> 00:59:57,990
come join the conversation as normal.

1135
00:59:58,530 --> 01:00:01,620
Uh, but yeah, Anna, what's
coming up next week?

1136
01:00:02,940 --> 01:00:07,890
Anna Kettle: Next week we have, um,
a friend called, Sherlon , uh, come

1137
01:00:07,890 --> 01:00:13,150
speak to us on the next session
from the gospel of Mark, John.

1138
01:00:13,150 --> 01:00:17,220
She, John, sorry, what
gospel are we in again, John?

1139
01:00:17,760 --> 01:00:22,680
Um, and Sherlon is um, his friend
of ours from church, isn't he?

1140
01:00:22,950 --> 01:00:23,880
Yeah, he's a great guy.

1141
01:00:23,880 --> 01:00:25,510
He's a teacher, isn't he?

1142
01:00:25,899 --> 01:00:27,309
Yeah, he is  that's his day job.

1143
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:28,140
Yeah.

1144
01:00:28,140 --> 01:00:31,530
He's a fab guy, dad of two and
yeah, I'm sure he'll have loads

1145
01:00:31,530 --> 01:00:34,530
of great stuff to talk about, so
I'm looking forward to that one.

1146
01:00:34,980 --> 01:00:35,670
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, I've no doubt.

1147
01:00:35,670 --> 01:00:37,260
I actually used to live with Sherlon.

1148
01:00:37,590 --> 01:00:39,240
He and I used to yeah, yeah, yeah.

1149
01:00:39,240 --> 01:00:41,010
A long time ago before
we were both married.

1150
01:00:41,550 --> 01:00:42,780
Uh, and so yeah.

1151
01:00:42,780 --> 01:00:43,690
Lived with Sherlon.

1152
01:00:43,705 --> 01:00:45,210
Uh, absolute legend.

1153
01:00:45,210 --> 01:00:48,300
He's an athlete, as he would tell us
regularly, when we were living together.

1154
01:00:48,305 --> 01:00:54,380
I'm an athlete, and, um, with an f, not
with a th not an athlete, but an aflete.

1155
01:00:54,810 --> 01:00:56,440
Uh, and love Sherlon to bits.

1156
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:57,100
He's an aflete.

1157
01:00:57,120 --> 01:00:59,220
So come and join Sherlon
the aflete next week.

1158
01:00:59,550 --> 01:01:00,660
You know, it's gonna be good.

1159
01:01:00,660 --> 01:01:01,530
He's an absolute legend.

1160
01:01:01,530 --> 01:01:02,850
He's spoken on Crowd before.

1161
01:01:03,430 --> 01:01:04,240
Love the man to bits.

1162
01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:05,040
He's such a cool dude.

1163
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:07,150
I wish I could be as cool as Sherlon.

1164
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,110
He just, he just has this sort
of swagger about him, doesn't he?

1165
01:01:10,115 --> 01:01:10,950
And he's just like,

1166
01:01:11,460 --> 01:01:14,400
Anna Kettle: yeah, he's
very laid back, Mr.

1167
01:01:14,400 --> 01:01:14,940
Chill to me.

1168
01:01:15,240 --> 01:01:16,460
So, yeah, he does.

1169
01:01:17,220 --> 01:01:19,910
Everyone give him some banter
next week about his afleticism?

1170
01:01:20,460 --> 01:01:21,300
Matt Edmundson: Yeah, absolutely.

1171
01:01:21,305 --> 01:01:21,930
He'll, he'll enjoy it.

1172
01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:23,910
Uh, but yeah, come join us on Facebook.

1173
01:01:23,940 --> 01:01:25,470
Uh, Facebook, yeah, YouTube.

1174
01:01:26,760 --> 01:01:27,990
I will put the notes on Facebook.

1175
01:01:28,050 --> 01:01:30,060
Uh, but yeah, that's it for me.

1176
01:01:30,060 --> 01:01:30,650
That's it from Anna.

1177
01:01:30,760 --> 01:01:33,750
From, as Matt said earlier, if you
would like to join us, join midweek.

1178
01:01:33,750 --> 01:01:34,740
It'll be great to see you.

1179
01:01:34,740 --> 01:01:35,940
We do have midweek groups.

1180
01:01:35,970 --> 01:01:40,665
Uh, And if you, uh, are for come join
us on Zoom, uh, come say, how's it?

1181
01:01:40,755 --> 01:01:43,035
Uh, you don't have to
be a Christian at all.

1182
01:01:43,125 --> 01:01:45,285
Uh, we enjoy the debate and
we enjoy the conversation.

1183
01:01:45,585 --> 01:01:48,234
More information can be found
on our website, Crowd.Church.

1184
01:01:48,259 --> 01:01:50,965
Or you can reach out to us on
social media, at Crowd Church.

1185
01:01:51,315 --> 01:01:54,375
There's also a WhatsApp number on the
website, which you can reach us on.

1186
01:01:54,380 --> 01:01:55,964
We would love to hear from you.

1187
01:01:56,325 --> 01:02:00,134
Uh, we get Prayer requests all the
time, and so, uh, we appreciate

1188
01:02:00,134 --> 01:02:01,365
you guys sending those in.

1189
01:02:01,365 --> 01:02:05,595
We do pray, uh, and we'll continue
to pray, uh, going forward.

1190
01:02:05,595 --> 01:02:10,005
So, yes, uh, Matt says,
remain blessed everyone.

1191
01:02:10,085 --> 01:02:12,205
Au Revoir Facebook, he's
speaking French now.

1192
01:02:12,495 --> 01:02:14,714
I mean, it's, uh, it's getting bad.

1193
01:02:14,805 --> 01:02:16,975
Uh, he's speaking French, uh, but.

1194
01:02:17,670 --> 01:02:18,810
Uh, that's it from us.

1195
01:02:18,870 --> 01:02:20,100
Uh, thank you for joining us.

1196
01:02:20,100 --> 01:02:23,280
It's been an absolute treat to be
with you talking about this topic.

1197
01:02:23,580 --> 01:02:28,110
Um, if we have said something which
you have found, uh, maybe controversial

1198
01:02:28,140 --> 01:02:30,450
or slightly offensive, please don't
be, we're not here to offend you.

1199
01:02:30,455 --> 01:02:31,530
We're just here to have a conversation.

1200
01:02:31,530 --> 01:02:33,030
Come join in the conversation.

1201
01:02:33,390 --> 01:02:35,510
That's the beauty of this
kind of stuff, right?

1202
01:02:35,730 --> 01:02:39,600
Yeah, it's, uh, it's just we like
debate, we like conversations, so

1203
01:02:39,900 --> 01:02:40,965
we would love to hear from you.

1204
01:02:41,490 --> 01:02:43,050
Uh, that's it from myself.

1205
01:02:43,050 --> 01:02:43,890
That's it from Anna.

1206
01:02:43,980 --> 01:02:45,660
Uh, have a fantastic week.

1207
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:47,310
Uh, anything else from you, Mrs.

1208
01:02:47,310 --> 01:02:47,620
Kettle?

1209
01:02:48,750 --> 01:02:51,300
Anna Kettle: No, just enjoyed
the conversation tonight and

1210
01:02:51,300 --> 01:02:52,620
everyone, have a lovely week.

1211
01:02:52,740 --> 01:02:53,460
See you soon.

1212
01:02:53,640 --> 01:02:54,180
Matt Edmundson: Absolutely.

1213
01:02:54,180 --> 01:02:55,410
We're gonna end the livestream now.

1214
01:02:55,920 --> 01:02:56,440
See you next time.

1215
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:58,310
Bye for now.