What is happening, everybody? I'm Larry Roberts. And I'm

Sara Lohse. And this is Branded, your comprehensive guide to Creative

branding. And on this episode of the podcast,

we're gonna be taking a little deeper look at well, Sarah had

an recently, and we were discussing

it just, you know, just having a conversation between the 2 of us. And I

went, you know what? This is something that I believe

most people that put themselves in a public facing position

have to deal with. So, Sarah, I'm gonna let you lay the

foundation here and just kinda give us a little backstory on how this

conversation started and why we thought, you know what? Why not have this

conversation on Brandon? I just got back from

New Orleans for the 2nd time in 2 months, And it was

for the, AFCPE Symposium. It's the

Association For Financial Counselor and Planner Education.

I am an accredited financial counselor, so I've been involved with the organization.

But I went there as a speaker, and I had

kind of 2 presentations. One that was very

casual kind of q and a session and one that was my, true

presentation as a speaker. And they let

people write feedback to for each person's

presentation, and they send the feedback to the speaker,

and I got mine. And it kind of sent me spiraling

a little bit, and I think that's something that Anybody who does

public speaking or even podcast, anyone who's doing

something that can get feedback and get reviews,

I think we look really, really deeply into any negative

comment. Our conversation was around how to navigate

that feedback, And, yeah, let's let's talk

about it because my feelings are hurt. And I no. I

can I can totally dig it because I think it was it was? It was

earlier this year. That's funny because we were talking about that earlier before we started

recording too going, what are we gonna talk about When we do a summary of

the year, I'm like, I don't even really know what happened this year. And as

I was thinking more throughout the year, I realized that I had a

similar situation earlier this year where I had gone to

a networking event, and I was one of the featured speakers, and

there were actually 3 of us there that were slated to speak that day. And

we had, like, 5 to 7 minutes to speak, and, this

is my first time at this event with this organization, and I had

no idea that after each of us spoke,

the entire room of 30, 35 people had the

opportunity to grade our presentations. That sounds like

bullying. And and it felt like

bullying by the end of it because, again, 30, 35 people

there.

And at the end of the event, they gave us each of us, each of

the speakers, these scorecards. And, you know, when I walked out, I got out

to the car, I probably had 20, 25 of these cards, and, of course, I'm

going through going, oh, that was good. Oh, that was good. Now why would

they say that? Okay. Well, hold on. Let me put that in this pile over

here. Oh, that was Oh, why would they say that? This pile over here is

the one you're gonna go back to. Yeah. Just ruminate. Every night

before you go to sleep And just ruminate on

Yeah. Like, those really good ones. Those accidentally end up in,

like, the recycling bin, and you never think about them again. Yeah.

But that one little pile of, like, he was okay. Yeah. It's

like, why was I just okay? Yeah. They go over here into what I call

the Pink Floyd pile because I turn on Pink Floyd, and I I get all

depressed, and I read these these reinforcing depressing messages

as I listen to the final cut. But it it's

so hard to go through and and

and focus on the positive And and then not

necessarily ignore, but just try to learn from and grow from some

of the less positives. So I know you were struggling with that as well, but

it like I said, it was just opportunity for me to relate. Yeah.

I don't love public speaking. I really

don't. I do it often, and I'm getting more comfortable with

it, But it's just never been something that I've liked to

do. I feel like public speaking is really polarizing. There's some

people who love it. Like, You you enjoy public speaking and you

would you wanna actually be a full time speaker.

I When I grow up.

I don't. I do them because I feel it's

necessary for thought leadership, and I want to grow in the space,

but I haven't figured out what to do

with my hands. I don't, like, I I don't feel

comfortable up, like, up on stage.

But I spoke at this event, and I spoke

on how to grow a financial practice through podcasting,

which is something I have great experience, and I did it for years, and I

continue to. And I got great feedback. And that's one of the

things that when we talk about Public speaking as a

like a avenue to thought leadership, one of the things that you

we talk about is that you get that instant feedback.

So you can see the reactions of people, and you can hear what makes

them clap, what makes them laugh, what makes them audibly

just, like, groan. And so I was getting that feedback,

and everything was really positive. And then I finished my presentation.

There was not enough time for all of the questions people As I had people

coming up to me telling me, like, that was so great. Thank you for your

presentation, asking me more questions, and people were saying

really, really nice things. But then I get sent the

survey responses from the people who attended. Like,

everyone has the opportunity to take a survey. And

the room it was a pretty big room, and it was pretty full. I would

say there was at least 50 something people in there And

at least like, it's probably more. And only 2

people filled out the survey. The ratings I got were really

good, And one of the people who left, like, an

actual, like, written, message,

was very positive. But the other person, they weren't

negative. They said, like, overall, did great, but said

something about me being really sales y. And

despite all of the people who were saying great things and thanking me for

the value and all of that, that's what stuck with

me. Because people, they have

a way of finding that one thing that you're really self

conscious about and just, like, picking at it.

And that's what I'm self conscious about is I try so

hard to not be sales y in these situations.

Well, you even have consulting. It that don't you have an ebook, I think,

on how to convert, How to be how to sell without being salesy or do

you have something like that? It was a presentation that I did for Alex

Sanfilippo's, Pod Pros, and it's on his website. There you go.

That was one that I thought I was terrible in, but he's like, I send

that to everybody. And I'm like, oh. Can we

ever do an episode of Brandon and not mention Alex? I'm just Probably not. We

are president and vice president of the Alex Danfilippo fan club.

I mentioned that on in my presentation too, just not even on purpose. It

just comes out. That my whole thing is that I do not like to be

sales y, which as a business owner probably isn't even a good thing because I

need to sell sell. I need to bring in clients, but

I try not to be sales y. And when I speak

at conferences within the podcast industry Yeah.

I feel Comfortable. Well, at least more comfortable

because I really don't have anything to sell,

and I'm just giving value. But when I speak at an event Like this

where, technically, yes, I I sell the service that I'm

talking about. I feel like the vendor, And I

feel like I'm not only giving value, I am kind of

giving a sales pitch, which I don't like, but I sat

there looking at this comment trying to like, just really

looking back at everything that I said and trying to find

where it was that it felt sales y. Mhmm. And it's been

bothering me. Like, I got that feedback yesterday, maybe the day

before, And it's been on my mind ever since. And

if whoever wrote that is listening, please tell me what I said. Please please be

specific. I know you weren't trying to hurt my

feelings. I know that. But just I really just wanna know what

it is that I said Because I've even looked back and,

I know I I'm actually I think I'm gonna get the recording, so I can

watch it. And I think it does be good to share with our audience. Right?

And since that's kind of a follow-up or not. No. No one else

needs to see this. Nobody else needs to see this. No. Nobody else needs to

see this. I I guarantee they do, and I think that would be really

interesting to put it out there, and and, Sarah, that's that's

why we're doing this episode in the 1st place is we're talking about how we

deal with our, with ourselves, by putting

our brands out there, by putting our faces out there, by creating

content, by doing things that establish us as thought leaders,

as industry leaders, as the faces of

our brands. And in doing that, You know, you're you're

sharing your story, which I appreciate,

but we're also going above and beyond that by exposing

ourselves. You You know, we're we're we're opening up our our hearts

and our minds to the feedback that we get, and it can

be extremely daunting to do that, and and you're demonstrating that right now by

going, no. No. No. No. Nobody else needs to see my presentation. And I know

I'm putting you on the spot here, and we need to discuss this part of

it before we hit record. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. So but I think that's what's

I I think that would be amazing to put that out there as a supplement

to this episode. Once you get it, you know, just have a callback to this

episode And get feedback from our listeners and

see just how sales y you were because I know

that's a huge problem. I I have a hard time

being salesy as well. Yeah. And I sat it on

a I'm in 2 big masterminds, one Alex Sanfilippo's mastermind,

then I'm in another one, some guy that does some podcast something, the

outlet something or other. And then I did another.

High performing mastermind. These cats are are

massive power players. I mean, decamillionaires multiple times

over. Everybody at every level has

a very similar problem, and I I know that you're

struggling with with the Perceptually negative feedback that you

got, but it's something that we all deal with. So how how do

we move forward from this, and how do you grow from this? I hope you're

not asking me because I don't know. Okay. Good. Good.

So maybe rhetorical? Semi rhetorical? I don't know. Audience,

tell us. There you go. It's funny because I remember

being at the event and people in person coming up to me to

Thank me or tell me it was great. And someone

said specifically, like, it was like, there was so much value

there. And I even said to them like, basically, just, like, word vomited at

them, saying, like, thank you so much for saying that. I am

always so scared that I'm going to come off as sales y, and that's not

what I was trying to do. And they're like, oh, no. No. I mean, like,

obviously, like, you do this for a living, but that came off in the

value. And I'm like, oh my goodness. You're the nicest person ever. I'm

like, even thinking back to my presentation because

if I knew what it was Specifically that I said, like, maybe I'll take it

out next time or make sure to specify the ways you could do it

yourself. You don't need me or something. But I am jump in there. Why

would you take it out? Why would you take it out? Because I

because we're dealing with we're we're dealing with how many comments? 1.

1. And now you're sitting here going through this The part that kills

me is it wasn't even a mean comment. Like, this person wasn't trying to be

mean. They were they were to be constructive Right. But it made me spiral. And

they even said, like, overall, though, great presentation. Right. And but

I that's that's not what I read. I read the You are a

salesperson. Get off stage. This is so sleazy. Never mentioned,

but that's what how I read it. But I was looking back. I'm like, what

was the actual content? And, I mean, you know,

me and you sat down. We went through my presentation. We cut it in half,

Got rid of half of it and added more so it would be super actionable.

Like, I we we put the 7 steps to take to launch

a podcast, Like, explaining exactly how to do it. I

mean, we've And killed the whole thing, almost the whole thing, 2 days before

you left or a day before you? Because we're like, this is not

enough value. Right. And so at one

point, I touched on lead generation and how lead

generation is one of the keys to having a podcast grow your

business. Right. So I'm like, I don't have time to really dig into

this, But you can see, a, an example, and,

b, like, learn more about it if you download this

ebook. And I specifically explained them, like, this is

a lead magnet about lead magnets. If you download this, you

are added to my mailing list and will receive Four emails

spaced 2 days apart each. That, like, that is what's going to happen.

So I made it very clear. It wasn't one of those, like, here's some free

content. It's Super free. Nothing happens. I'll never speak to you again. Like, there

was no, like, smoke and mirrors. I was just like, here's a

lead magnet. If you wanna get it, go ahead. Right. And So

the like, I even told you, like, the only thing I can think of that

I said that sounded sales y was, like, 1, someone asked,

how to guest on podcasts, and I was like, well, there's options

like like working with a coach like me who can book you

on shows, Or you can use a, like, a

program like PodMatch. Shout out Alex Anfilippo again. Oh, is she

gonna say it? Is she gonna say it? Oh, Jesus.

This episode is sponsored by Podmatch. We're making this happen, Alex.

Like, come on now. But, like, I gave, like, a

very low cost, nothing to do with me option. So, like, I was

trying to kinda balance it and not make it seem like you need me because

you don't. And, oh, and then the acronym I made

for the steps Uh-huh. To creating a podcast, it was a finance

event, so I made it spell out capital Because capital is another

word for money, and then I made a lame joke of, so everyone take out

your wallets. Just kidding. Not that kind of capital.

And I'm like, was that them thinking I actually meant, like, okay.

Now pay me? Because I make bad jokes when I'm uncomfortable.

And if you don't believe me, I also there's a there were video and

photographers and stuff because they recorded the whole thing, and they give us

photos of us speaking. The guy comes up. It wasn't

even a stage. It was kind of like a classroom. So I'm just standing in

the front. I'm not on a stage. He comes up, and he's like,

What on what would be the stage with me, and he's kneeling down,

like, 7 feet from me. And I Stop my presentation,

look at him, and say, that is not my angle. Please get up.

Like, I didn't mean to say that out loud.

I blacked out a little bit. But

why really, why is it that we just focus so much

on anything that is not

fully positive. Yeah. And and it it's It

stops us from doing a lot of things, honestly. Yeah. Above and beyond just

getting on a stage or evaluating our performance Once we get off of a

stage or we get out from a a group of people or even

more so, you know, because we talk about posting on social media all the time.

So many people hold back from putting themselves out there

like you did at this conference, like I do at a variety of conferences

as well, Like we do on social media, because

they're afraid of this 1 comment, this 1

comment that sets us back that we're gonna hyperfocus on that's

gonna derail all of our other efforts, and

it's so hard to just look at that comment and

go, who cares? It's it's not that you don't you shouldn't

not care. If it's just, like, mean and, like, obviously, this person is

just, like, The angry woman on Yelp who is just going to yell at

everybody. Yeah. But find the find something constructive

in it. And if it is actually saying something

like I didn't like this piece of the presentation or I

didn't like like, Okay. Like, let's learn from that. Let's see.

Like, look back at it, determine for yourself if it has

merit, and make make changes if necessary.

But instead, we just take it so personally.

Yeah. Yeah. And I say we as in me. I am

we. Oh, no. You can say me because I do it I I just told

you. When we started there, I did the same I did the same thing. I

have my Pink Floyd pile. Anytime I get any kind of

of grades or or feedback or anything along those lines. Yeah.

And it's it's super, super easy to fall down that trap,

But we can't do that. We we can't let ourselves get sucked up in this

this sea of negativity. Yeah. We we have Apparently, I have

a medical reason For this. Come on now.

So I, in the past, like, I don't know, maybe,

like, 2 years, I finally got my ADHD

diagnosis. K. It's kind of that moment where

everything's in your life starts to make sense. K. Like, all of these things since

I was a child that I thought were just personality quirks were actually symptoms.

But one of the symptoms, of ADHD

is called rejection hypersensitivity.

K. So anytime you get anything that

could feel like a rejection. You take

it so so personally. You're hypersensitive to it.

Interesting. And so I'm like, Part of me is like, okay.

Cool. It's not, like, my fault. I my chemicals are

all out of whack. So that makes me feel a little bit better, but, also,

it doesn't because I'm still crying in the middle of the night because someone said

they didn't love my shoes. If if anyone else

understands this feeling, like, Let me know. I'm not alone because

this is just, like, ridiculously annoying to live

with. But it's like if you ask someone to hang out

and they say, oh, I already have plans, but you can come if

you want, that's, like, the meanest thing you can say to me.

Why? I don't know. I've never been diagnosed with ADHD

because, well, you know, there is a bit of a generation, gap

here, But I go through everything

that you're talking about. Literally, every emotion I

have to say Hold on. What? Do you not know you have ADHD?

I've never do. I've never been diagnosed.

Okay. Well, you've Doctor Sarah is here to

tell you that Look. You have ADHD. I'm sorry to break

the news here. Debate I don't debate that I would be diagnosed with it

By any stretch of the imagination, I don't debate it at all. You you

have it. I'm just telling you that I relate because you're not

alone. I have these Same thing. If you go, yeah. You can still tag along

if you want. If you would just say, like,

I already have plans, but we'd love you to join us. Like,

that simple change, that makes it go from, like, oh,

it's so unfortunate. I've already made plans because I would love to see you.

Oh, here's an idea. Just come. We like, you would add to this

experience. So great if you showed yet. Like, you can come if you

want. Is like, I hear that as we don't want you there,

but if you want to force yourself upon our existence,

we won't Outwardly object to it

Yeah. Out loud Yeah. Like, that is what my brain hears.

So I I think the whole point of this, just know that These types

of Yeah. We had a point. Yeah. We had a point. You you get this

kind of feedback, and it's very, very easy as someone that's trying to establish

themselves, establish their build business, and build a brand. You're going to get this kind

of feedback, and it's super, super

destructive to dwell on these

singular comments that come in and and use that

as the foundation of your success or the foundation of the impact that you're

having, and it's just it's not productive in any way, shape,

form. So, if you're faced with this, please please

don't don't focus on all of the negativity. Focus on all the positive

things that's going on. You're having. Focus on the impact that your brand

is having and continue to build and continue to grow.

And relating specifically to that feedback that I got,

If you own a business, you

can try to sell to people. Like,

you need sales to continue to feed your family

and run your business. Don't be afraid to be sales y, but also

Make sure you're bringing value and your main takeaway

isn't pay me for something. It's here's how you can do it

and let me know if you need help with it, I guess,

but I'm so like, I I don't know why I'm giving this advice as if

I'm gonna take it, but because I'm so afraid of being salesy. But I have

to remember, like, okay. Sales is a part of this. Sales is part of running

a business. Yeah. So if you believe in what you're selling

and you think that this is a product that can positively impact

somebody's life, that takes the sleaze out of the selling,

in my opinion, because you're not just selling something that's

useless, that's, like, just gonna sit on a shelf and take up space. You're

selling something that can make their life better or make their life easier.

So tell them about it and give them the opportunity to

decide if they want what you have to offer because,

otherwise, they're never gonna know. So that's that's my

the the piece of advice that I'm going to hope someday I can take.

There you Go. Well, if you found some value in this episode, hey. Do us

a favor and tell somebody us for things. Yeah. Pay us for things too

while you're at No. But seriously, tell

somebody about it. And while you're at it, do us a huge favor and smash

that subscribe button so We can continue to bring you this insight

that we both go through. We're right there with you every step of the way.

So with that, I'm Larry Roberts. And I'm Sarah Lacey,

and we'll talk to you next week.